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View Full Version : Middle to late Neolithic 6,625-4,025 year old mtDNA and Y DNA from German



Fire Haired
24-06-13, 07:02
mtDNA N=86 vast majority central and eastern Germany border very few from north or west Germany 2 from central eastern Denmark from 6,625-4,025ybp[/I][/B]


H=35 40.7%(H1=9 10.5%(H1e7=3 3.5%, H1e1a5=1 1.7%), H3=4 4.7%(H3b=1 1.7%), H2=3 3.5%, H5=3 3.5%(H5a3=2 2.3%, H5b=1 1.7%), H16=1 1.7%, H8a=1 1.7%, H10=1 1.7%, H7d5=1 1.7%, H6a1a=1 1.7%, H4da1=1 1.7%, H13a1a2c=1 1.7%

U=11 12.8%(U5=8 9.3%(U5a=5 5.8%(U5a1=2 2.3%, U5a2a=1 1.2%), U5b=1 1.2%), U4=2 2.3%, U2e=1 1.2%

K=10 11.6%(K1=4 4.6%(K1b=2 2.3%, K1a2=1 1.2%)

T=9 10.5% (T2=6 7%(T2e=3 3.5%), T1a=1 1.2%

X=5 5.8% (X2=4 4.6%(X2j=1 1.2%),

HV=5 5.85(HVO=4 4.6%),

J=4 4.65%,,

I=2 2.3%(I1=1 1.2%)

W=3 3.5%(W6=1 1.2%, W5a=1 1.2%),

V=1 1.2%,

N1a1a=1 1.2%

four Y DNA samples all from 4,600ybp and from central Germany


R1a1a either R1a1a1b1 or R1a1a1b=2, R1b1a2 almost definitely R1b1a2a1a1 L11*/P310*=2


The R1b came from From Bell Beaker culture in central Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
in Kromsdorf central Germany


the R1a1a came from Corded Ware culture in Eulau central Germany


(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCorded_ Ware_culture&ei=yUrAUYi8IsnayAHNrIAw&usg=AFQjCNG8a_yp5nZRFuoQQMXp3bhNuofzOw)https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCorded_ Ware_culture&ei=yUrAUYi8IsnayAHNrIAw&usg=AFQjCNG8a_yp5nZRFuoQQMXp3bhNuofzOw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture)


The mtDNA from the 86 remains is nearly identical to mtDNA of almost all modern Europeans
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

the biggest sign is mtDNA H is at 40% i have heard so many times people saying that mtDNA H is so rare in pre historic European remains well that is not true from 236 samples in Iberia from 7,000-4,000ybp over 40% mtDNA Hhttp://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?84141-Iberian-DNA-haplogroups-from-20-000-4-340-years-ago-exactly-like-modern-Europeans


most cultures remains in Neolithic Europe had 40% H or more just people keep mentioning LBK early Neolithic culture in Germany from 7,500-7,000ybp from 56 mtDNA samples 24.4% had H but it was still the most popular mtDNA haplogroup and 56 remains is not enough to say mtDNA H was not 40% for those people

and the theory people have that randomly mtDNA H spread to every spot in Europe just 5,000 ybp is not accurate at all
http://www.designntrend.com/articles/3958/20130423/dna-ancient-europeans-disappeared-genetic-history.htm

the main mtDNA H subclades in Europe are H1,H3,H6,H8,H2, and H11 all originated in Europe usually over 15,000 ybp they did not randomly come from the mid east because these sub clades are rare in the mid east they where already popular in Europe before farming 10,000ybp actualley a 15,000 year old bone in Spain had mtDNA H6 and H originated in eastern Europe so it is well over 15,000 years old subclades like H1 and H3 are centered in certain areas there is no way recent migrations did that 10,000 ybp mtDNA H1 and H3 would be 40% in northern Spain just like today

also the idea Bell Beaker spread mtDNA H is very weak too because Bell Beaker culture began in Spain they would have had mainly mtDNA H1 and H3 at about 30-40% but Greeks who have 40% mtDNA H have less than 5% mtDNA H1 and H3 the Bell Beaker never made it to Russia or Greece but mtDNA H is still 40% in those areas this means it was the dominant mtDNA haplogroup before Bell Beaker and remains of middle Neolithic German mtDNA from before Bell Beaker still had mainly mtDNA H

mtDNA H did not just randomly spread across Europe people make quick conclusions it was already 40% in Europe 10,000 years ago and since DNA studies of prehistoric bones is growing like crazy right now my idea will be proven correct. and there is a 28,000 year old bone in southern tip of Italy and mtDNA H originated in the middle east to it would take at least 7,000 years for cavemen from Iraq to migrate to the southern tip of Italy mainly because they are not intentionally going to Italy it would be a very long process it probably arrived in Europe 33,000-36,000ybp

the R1a and R1b Y DNA remains came at the time when Indo Europeans began migrating to Germany and western Europe this was when the R1a and R1b lineage started to become dominant in Europe this does not mean Europeans ancestors have only lived there for 5,000 years Y DNA and mtDNA are just lineages like a last name i have a Scottish last name but i am only 15% Scottish Y DNA does not tell your full ancestry but it is true that the R1b Indo Europeans brought red hair to western Europe so redheads have only lived in western Europe for 5,000 years originally they came from the Steppes
http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/origins_of_red_hair.shtml