Fire Haired
Regular Member
- Messages
- 689
- Reaction score
- 32
- Points
- 0
- Ethnic group
- Celto-Germanic, Latino(~6%)
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- R1b Df27(Spain)
- mtDNA haplogroup
- U5b2a2(Prussia)
We know for a fact that the Romans where Italian just like people in Italy today the Y DNA of people who live in the area of Rome today have
43% Indo European R1b S28, 19.5% mid eastern J1, 10% North African E1b1b, 8.5% Neolithic northern Anatolian G2a, 5% Mesolithic European I2a2, 3.5% mid eastern T, 3.5% Indo European and Mesolithic European R1a, 3% Nordic I1, 2% mid eastern J1, 2% Mesolithic European I2a1a,
since the most popular group for Romans was R1b S28 u would except them to have spread it across their empire but that is not what happened it seems the Romans did not spread any R1b S28 the only groups they did spread where mid eastern and north African J2, E1b1b, J1
also the map of Y DNA J2 in Europe perfectly matches the map of the roman empire all the areas with 5% or more J2 are withing the borders of the Roman empire to me this definetley mean Rome spread it throughout Europe and north Africa
here are maps of J1 and E1b1b u can see that the areas with more J1 also have more E1b1b this means they came in the same time defintley in Greco Roman times and the J1 and E1b1b almost all of Europe defintley came from the Roman empire except Greece and south east Europe
The Romans did not spread any Indo European R1b S28 which 43% of Italiens in the area of Rome the real Romans who where central Italians the Centurions who where the super soldiers of the Roman empire they lived in military camps across the Roman empire where almost always Italian it was a law for most of Romes histiory that Centurions had to be of Italian ancestry there where some soldiers in other ranks like Auxilia they had some non Italians but even those ranks where mainly Italian it was not until near the end of the Roman empire that they allowed non Italian Centurions and allowed more in other ranks but most of these people where from Germanic tribes not the middle east or north Africa they also allowed many non Roman people to immigrate around the empire
The Romans where very patriotic at first they where just a village it took about 500 years for them to conquer Italy then another 150 years to conquer western Europe and the Mediterranean the Roman empire at first only allowed people from the city of Rome or around that area to be at high rank later when their empire became to big for just people from Rome they allowed all Italians Rome was very strict about this
when Hadrian became Emperor in 76ad this infuriated Romans because he was born in Spain even though his parents where born in Rome and had 100% Roman blood
here is a map of R1b S28 and the largest extent of Celtic people i highlighted the areas that Halleste Celts from central Europe migrated to
the R1b S28 in Britain,Germany, and Poland did not come form Rome either for one thing Poland was not apart of the Roman empire and most of Germany was not either the R1b S28 in those areas comes from Urnfield culture 3,200ybphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture
this culture gave birth to Hallstatt Celtic culture about 2,900ybp and Italien Villnoaven culture about 2,900ybp Urnfield also spread from central Europe to Germany, Poland, and Britain
that is also the reason why Hallstatt Celts and Romans had R1b s28 because in central Europe about 3,200ybp the Urnfield people spoke the proto Italian and some Celtic langauges spoke Celtic
the Celtic and Italien languages go back to a common ancestor just 4,500ybp in central Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-Celtic
the Italian speakers spread from central Europe into Italy about 3,100ybp and slowly conquered it and spread the Italian language but modern Italians and ancient Romans are mainly descended of the people who already lived in Italy even though they have mainly Y DNA R1b S28 like Celts does not make them close blood relatives Y DNA Is just a direct lineage like a last name it does not tell ur full ancestry the first Italian speakers would have been genetically identical to Celtic people but they quickley inter married with the nativ Italians and became genetically Italian
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml
that is also part of the reason why Celts and Romans knew each other so well the Romans first mentioned the Celts in writting about 2,400ybp but they had known the Celts for 3,000 years the Hallstatt Culture traded with Italian Villnoven culture 2,900ybp this also part of the reason why Roman weapons where so similar to Celtic weapons i big reason why Urnfield culture conquered Italy is because they where some of the earliest people to use Iron weapons that is also why the Hallstatt Celts where so successful
I know that ancient Italy and Greece 2,500 ybp where the only areas of Europe with true organized civilizations and they where very very very connected with civilizations in the mid east and North Africa that is why mid eastern and north African Y DNA in Europe is most popular in Italy and Greece
the first Civilizations in Italy began just 2,600ybp because they had contact with Greece before that Y DNA E1b1b,J1,J2 would have been at most would have been 1% then they became at least 33% they must have inter married with mid eastern and North Africans like crazy now it seems that when Rome became an empire they spread mid eastern and North African Y DNA
So maybe Rome is not the only example maybe Civilization is Europe did not just spread as an idea from the mid east and north Africa people from those areas actually went to Europe and inter married and for early civilizations in Italy and Greece the rich high ranking people may have been direct descendants of mid eastern immigrants i don't know what the answer is but there is something about ancient Rome and Greece we don't know about or maybe there is a historical reason why the Romans spread only mid eastern and north African Y DNA i don't know about
43% Indo European R1b S28, 19.5% mid eastern J1, 10% North African E1b1b, 8.5% Neolithic northern Anatolian G2a, 5% Mesolithic European I2a2, 3.5% mid eastern T, 3.5% Indo European and Mesolithic European R1a, 3% Nordic I1, 2% mid eastern J1, 2% Mesolithic European I2a1a,
since the most popular group for Romans was R1b S28 u would except them to have spread it across their empire but that is not what happened it seems the Romans did not spread any R1b S28 the only groups they did spread where mid eastern and north African J2, E1b1b, J1
also the map of Y DNA J2 in Europe perfectly matches the map of the roman empire all the areas with 5% or more J2 are withing the borders of the Roman empire to me this definetley mean Rome spread it throughout Europe and north Africa
here are maps of J1 and E1b1b u can see that the areas with more J1 also have more E1b1b this means they came in the same time defintley in Greco Roman times and the J1 and E1b1b almost all of Europe defintley came from the Roman empire except Greece and south east Europe
The Romans did not spread any Indo European R1b S28 which 43% of Italiens in the area of Rome the real Romans who where central Italians the Centurions who where the super soldiers of the Roman empire they lived in military camps across the Roman empire where almost always Italian it was a law for most of Romes histiory that Centurions had to be of Italian ancestry there where some soldiers in other ranks like Auxilia they had some non Italians but even those ranks where mainly Italian it was not until near the end of the Roman empire that they allowed non Italian Centurions and allowed more in other ranks but most of these people where from Germanic tribes not the middle east or north Africa they also allowed many non Roman people to immigrate around the empire
The Romans where very patriotic at first they where just a village it took about 500 years for them to conquer Italy then another 150 years to conquer western Europe and the Mediterranean the Roman empire at first only allowed people from the city of Rome or around that area to be at high rank later when their empire became to big for just people from Rome they allowed all Italians Rome was very strict about this
when Hadrian became Emperor in 76ad this infuriated Romans because he was born in Spain even though his parents where born in Rome and had 100% Roman blood
here is a map of R1b S28 and the largest extent of Celtic people i highlighted the areas that Halleste Celts from central Europe migrated to
the R1b S28 in Britain,Germany, and Poland did not come form Rome either for one thing Poland was not apart of the Roman empire and most of Germany was not either the R1b S28 in those areas comes from Urnfield culture 3,200ybphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield_culture
this culture gave birth to Hallstatt Celtic culture about 2,900ybp and Italien Villnoaven culture about 2,900ybp Urnfield also spread from central Europe to Germany, Poland, and Britain
that is also the reason why Hallstatt Celts and Romans had R1b s28 because in central Europe about 3,200ybp the Urnfield people spoke the proto Italian and some Celtic langauges spoke Celtic
the Celtic and Italien languages go back to a common ancestor just 4,500ybp in central Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-Celtic
the Italian speakers spread from central Europe into Italy about 3,100ybp and slowly conquered it and spread the Italian language but modern Italians and ancient Romans are mainly descended of the people who already lived in Italy even though they have mainly Y DNA R1b S28 like Celts does not make them close blood relatives Y DNA Is just a direct lineage like a last name it does not tell ur full ancestry the first Italian speakers would have been genetically identical to Celtic people but they quickley inter married with the nativ Italians and became genetically Italian
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml
that is also part of the reason why Celts and Romans knew each other so well the Romans first mentioned the Celts in writting about 2,400ybp but they had known the Celts for 3,000 years the Hallstatt Culture traded with Italian Villnoven culture 2,900ybp this also part of the reason why Roman weapons where so similar to Celtic weapons i big reason why Urnfield culture conquered Italy is because they where some of the earliest people to use Iron weapons that is also why the Hallstatt Celts where so successful
I know that ancient Italy and Greece 2,500 ybp where the only areas of Europe with true organized civilizations and they where very very very connected with civilizations in the mid east and North Africa that is why mid eastern and north African Y DNA in Europe is most popular in Italy and Greece
the first Civilizations in Italy began just 2,600ybp because they had contact with Greece before that Y DNA E1b1b,J1,J2 would have been at most would have been 1% then they became at least 33% they must have inter married with mid eastern and North Africans like crazy now it seems that when Rome became an empire they spread mid eastern and North African Y DNA
So maybe Rome is not the only example maybe Civilization is Europe did not just spread as an idea from the mid east and north Africa people from those areas actually went to Europe and inter married and for early civilizations in Italy and Greece the rich high ranking people may have been direct descendants of mid eastern immigrants i don't know what the answer is but there is something about ancient Rome and Greece we don't know about or maybe there is a historical reason why the Romans spread only mid eastern and north African Y DNA i don't know about