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Maciamo
28-06-13, 19:46
The French government would like tourists to believe that France is at the forefront of modern technology, the land of TGV, Airbus and the Ariane space programme (although the latter two are European rather than French). But the truth is that France still lags behind in many respect, especially from a legal or political point of view.

France is the only Western European country with a compulsory identity cards system that does not yet have electronic ID cards. In comparison, neighbouring Belgium introduced electronic ID cards in 2002 and nowadays there are even electronic ID cards for kids and for foreign residents. Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Estonia, and even Romania all have electronic ID cards. France doesn't.

I have explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24241-French-post-and-banking-service-embarassingly-inefficient) how inefficient the French post and banking service were. Additionally, France is one of the last countries in Europe where cheques are still one of the main forms of payments (about 30% of all transactions). Only Malta and Cyprus use cheques more frequently. The use of debit and credit cards in France is one of the lowest in the developed world. It feels like the French don't trust technology and like to stick to the old paper.

France is the only developed country where paternity tests (so practically any kind of DNA test) are prohibited by law. If you order a paternity test via the Internet or by telephone in France, not only the shipment may be confiscated by the customs but you risk a year in prison and a fine of € 15,000 (Article 226-28 of the Penal Code). (source (http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/france-upholds-the-ban-on-paternity-tests/)) I consider that as a serious Human Rights infringement. Read more (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28882-Ordering-a-DNA-test-in-France-is-a-crime-punishable-by-heavy-fines-and-jail-time).

I don't watch much TV but when I do it is often French TV, and I am appalled almost every time that programmes never start on time. I am not complaining about a few minutes here. Some programmes start 15-20 minutes late, and occasionally they even start 10-15 minutes early, which is even more annoying. In the digital age how can they still manage their timetables so poorly ? Unfortunately this is a reflection of French society as a whole. The French are almost never on time for anything. It's a problem as endemic as in southern Italy.

If you drive around Western Europe one thing you will notice immediately is the contrast between the old age and poor condition of the average French car on the road compared to those in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Britain, and in fact practically anywhere where the GDP per capita is supposedly similar. The reason is that the French government is not strict enough regarding vehicle inspection. Half of the cars in the French countryside would be prohibited to drive in Germanic countries.

This Latin laissez-aller attitude is found at many other levels of French society. The antiquated French education system has been blamed recently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22985889) by a BBC journalist for the pervading gloomy mood in modern French society. One of the main issues in France today is that young people have too much freedom to choose whatever subject they want at university. Because education is free, many change their mind halfway through their studies or study to get two or even three degrees, then go to work in other (mostly English-speaking) countries where the work market is more flexible and better paid.

So the French people end up paying for one of the world's most expensive tertiary education system, and a lot of this money never comes back into the system as brighter people leave France. Among those that remain, many will be unemployable anyway because they have useless degrees or too many degrees (= too expensive to employ), or both. If the French were a bit stricter on entrance exams, set higher fees, and encouraged people to study for degrees for which there is a real demand on the market, the French economy would be much healthier.

French people live the longest in the EU, and yet they have the earliest retirement age (62 years old, against 65 to 67 in other countries). The French constantly oppose all kind of necessary reforms of the economic system, staging national strikes and massive demonstrations at the slightest inconvenience. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if France became the next Greece, and eventually led to the collapse of the Eurozone.

7 years ago, I was already writing a thread Is France "the sick man of Europe" ? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24266-Is-France-quot-the-sick-man-of-Europe-quot) in reaction to an article by The Economist. Since then things have gone from bad to worse, and the incompetence and irresolution of President Hollande does not augur well for the years to come.

ElHorsto
18-07-13, 12:52
Right, they should understand that liberté is out of fashion already.

Cambrius (The Red)
20-07-13, 17:13
Every country has it's idiosyncrasies. The paternity test law is disturbing, however.

Maciamo
09-09-13, 08:08
I am amazed and dismayed that in the 21st century there could still be so little political will in France to pronounce foreign names and words properly. News anchors on French TV, be it public or private, national or international (like France 24), regularly butcher English words. To them, as to most French people as a result, the webiste LinkedIn in called "Lin-ke-din". They just read it as if it were a French word. Fortunately enough they don"t call Facebook "Fassbok". You have to give them credit for that (snigger).

As I have mentioned before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24594-What-annoys-you-%28about-the-news-on-TV%29), no effort in made in France to get foreigners' names right, not even heads of state sometime (after 10 years in office and saying his name many times in a year, French newscasters still don't know that the g is silent in Turkish Prime Minister's name, Erdoğan). Actually the French usually get Russian and Arabic names right because they have their own system for romanising Cyrillic and Arabic script, so that Putin is written Poutine in French (luckily enough, as if they had to read it Putin it would mean 'whore' in French).

It's interesting that on France 24, France's global equivalent of BBC World News, in the English version of the channel news presenters and guests alike almost never pronounce wrongly French names, as they are certainly briefed about it in advance, just to be sure nobody dares pronounce Champs-Élysées like an American tourist would. But it doesn't work the other way round. In the French version there is no one to advise them that the Chinese city of Hangzhou (pop. 8 million) is not pronounced "Anjou" like the French region.

There are a few exceptions. The French do seem to make an effort to pronounce words and names of their fellow Romance speakers, be them Italian, Spanish or Portuguese. ARTE, a Franco-German TV channel, always pronounces German names right - but hey they are based in Alsace and half of the staff is German. Overall in fact, oddly enough, the French make more effort to pronounce German names correctly than English ones, as if they intentionally prevented themselves to speak English. Surely they haven't accepted yet, after 1000 years of struggling with the "Anglo-Saxons" (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0552775746?ie=UTF8&tag=eupedia-21&link_code=as3&camp=2506&creative=9298&creativeASIN=0552775746) (as the French oddly like to call English-speaking countries) that they have lost to Britain and its offshoots for the cultural domination of the world. That is surely, at least unconsciously, why the French manage to come up with such inanities as "Lin-ke-din".

The French don't even try to get names right when it comes to "inferior countries", which is basically any country that is not descended from the Romans or Greeks in their eyes. Even Belgians are often derided because two thirds of them are not native French speakers (a fact that eludes a lot of Frenchies). The French like to make a point in calling Bruxelles "Bruksselle" even though the 'x' has always been pronounced 'ss' by French-speaking Belgians (they should know since the Middle Ages, especially since it is the most frequently mentioned European city in the media nowadays because of the EU). That's pure political propaganda, as if the French were trying to say "look we can and will pronounce your capital's name any way we want, even if that is not how you have always done it. We rule, you lose." That's just an example of why the French pass as arrogant and disrespectful, or just plain silly. Note that when I say "the French" it usually doesn't apply to annexed non-French people like the Alsatians, the French Flemings, the Bretons, the Basques, or the Corsicans. Having retained a culture and language of their own these people are usually more sensitive about these issues.

Maciamo
02-12-13, 09:52
I've come across another piece of interesting French legislation that could be construed as a breach of Human Rights. There has been a lot of debate in French media this year regarding gay marriage and the rights of gay couples to adopt or conceive babies through sperm donors (for lesbians) or an egg donor + surrogate mother (for gays). It turns out that at the time being sperm donations are illegal in France for anybody who is not in a heterosexual relationship. This means that single mother and lesbians couples cannot be inseminated by sperm from a donor in French hospitals. That much could still be acceptable as single mothers and lesbians could very well go have an insemination in a neighbouring country or inseminate themselves at home with the sperm or a donor without passing through a clinic. But French law is much more pernicious. Sperm donations outside the official channel (i.e. CECOS centres) are prohibited for both sperm donors and prospective mothers and punishable by a 30,500€ fine and two years in jail ! (Loi sur la bioéthique n° 94-654 du 29 juillet 1994 - Art. L. 675 (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000549618&dateTexte=&categorieLien=id))

Additionally, French law does not allow any newborn baby not to have an official father. Any child born out of wedlock must have a designated "official" father. French law does not accept 'natural children'. This means that any woman who has a baby and is not in a proven heterosexual relationship or cannot provide a man who is willing to recognise a baby born from a sperm donation as his will potentially be regarded as having used illegal sperm donation and face imprisonment. Even a woman who has a one-night stand with a stranger and becomes pregnant could be in the same situation and be considered as having used illegal sperm donation (unless she finds the biological father and forces him to recognise the child, which may prove difficult).

The bottom line is: in France women can be jailed for having babies out of wedlock or out of a proven heterosexual relationship, and men can also be imprisoned for donating sperms to a woman who wants a child. If that isn't an infringement of Human Rights then what is ?

Other odd fact: in France if a child is born out of wedlock, the presumed father has to officially recognise the child within three days after the birth. However the father can recognise the child without the mother's consent or knowledge. The problem is that the paternity isn't always clear and several men can make the same claim. In that case the first man who went to recognise the child at the town hall will be the official father, even if he is not the biological father. Since paternity tests are illegal in France (and punishable by jail sentences), in real life any man can claim any unmarried mother's child. A homeless man could claim the paternity of a rich heiress's child is she isn't married, as long as he reaches the town hall first ! That may sound crazy but it is like that in France. If a man wrongfully claims a single mother's child as his own, only a French court can order a paternity test to invalidate his claim, a process that can be lengthy, tedious and costly.

toyomotor
03-12-13, 01:44
Maciamo: Are these laws actually enforced? If so, I'm surprised that someone hasn't taken the French Government to the International Court of Justice. These laws infringe very basic human rights and should be condemned internationally. Merde!

LeBrok
03-12-13, 03:23
Maciamo: Are these laws actually enforced? If so, I'm surprised that someone hasn't taken the French Government to the International Court of Justice. These laws infringe very basic human rights and should be condemned internationally. Merde!
I'm sure it is coming soon, unless France is very lackluster in enforcing these laws and won't bother people.

greyd
06-12-13, 15:02
At least France has compulsory ID cards. The Irish don't have them. They don't even have postcodes!

toyomotor
07-12-13, 01:35
At least France has compulsory ID cards. The Irish don't have them. They don't even have postcodes!

And your point is?

gervais
07-12-13, 06:20
I have explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24241-French-post-and-banking-service-embarassingly-inefficient) how inefficient the French post and banking service were. Additionally, France is one of the last countries in Europe where cheques are still one of the main forms of payments (about 30% of all transactions). Only Malta and Cyprus use cheques more frequently. The use of debit and credit cards in France is one of the lowest in the developed world. It feels like the French don't trust technology and like to stick to the old paper.

I noticed that it was the French women who pay by cheques.
The French men pay by credit card (perhaps because they have no handbag:embarassed:)

gervais
07-12-13, 06:34
I've come across another piece of interesting French legislation that could be construed as a breach of Human Rights. There has been a lot of debate in French media this year regarding gay marriage and the rights of gay couples to adopt or conceive babies through sperm donors (for lesbians) or an egg donor + surrogate mother (for gays). It turns out that at the time being sperm donations are illegal in France for anybody who is not in a heterosexual relationship. This means that single mother and lesbians couples cannot be inseminated by sperm from a donor in French hospitals. That much could still be acceptable as single mothers and lesbians could very well go have an insemination in a neighbouring country or inseminate themselves at home with the sperm or a donor without passing through a clinic. But French law is much more pernicious. Sperm donations outside the official channel (i.e. CECOS centres) are prohibited for both sperm donors and prospective mothers and punishable by a 30,500€ fine and two years in jail ! (Loi sur la bioéthique n° 94-654 du 29 juillet 1994 - Art. L. 675 (http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000549618&dateTexte=&categorieLien=id))

Additionally, French law does not allow any newborn baby not to have an official father. Any child born out of wedlock must have a designated "official" father. French law does not accept 'natural children'. This means that any woman who has a baby and is not in a proven heterosexual relationship or cannot provide a man who is willing to recognise a baby born from a sperm donation as his will potentially be regarded as having used illegal sperm donation and face imprisonment. Even a woman who has a one-night stand with a stranger and becomes pregnant could be in the same situation and be considered as having used illegal sperm donation (unless she finds the biological father and forces him to recognise the child, which may prove difficult).

The bottom line is: in France women can be jailed for having babies out of wedlock or out of a proven heterosexual relationship, and men can also be imprisoned for donating sperms to a woman who wants a child. If that isn't an infringement of Human Rights then what is ?

Other odd fact: in France if a child is born out of wedlock, the presumed father has to officially recognise the child within three days after the birth. However the father can recognise the child without the mother's consent or knowledge. The problem is that the paternity isn't always clear and several men can make the same claim. In that case the first man who went to recognise the child at the town hall will be the official father, even if he is not the biological father. Since paternity tests are illegal in France (and punishable by jail sentences), in real life any man can claim any unmarried mother's child. A homeless man could claim the paternity of a rich heiress's child is she isn't married, as long as he reaches the town hall first ! That may sound crazy but it is like that in France. If a man wrongfully claims a single mother's child as his own, only a French court can order a paternity test to invalidate his claim, a process that can be lengthy, tedious and costly.

The general problem in France is the lack of personal freedom.
We are in a system of "welfare state" where the state has to decide everything, even what is private.
Many French are still communist (without knowing it)!

greyd
11-12-13, 15:08
And your point is?

Is it not obvious? That the French are not as technologically backward as some other European nations.

toyomotor
12-12-13, 02:14
Is it not obvious? That the French are not as technologically backward as some other European nations.

This conversation wasn't about technology, but the passage of laws which cruelly infringe human rights. That a modern, educated country such as France could consider such legislation is anathema to modern western culture.

martiko
18-02-14, 22:16
you say that because you are angry!

I know we French we are big lazy two-day strike three ....
After my family was savagely bombed Erentery (Gernika) by Italian and German plane and that with the silent complicity of English. t is true that if they take away English of, Churchill and Darwin I see nothing big.
The French have welcomed and helped my family.
Thank you for Renault vehicles and Bloch plane (Dassault), delivered to the Basque and Catalan and despite the prohibition of other European countries who were afraid of angering the good Mr. Hitler.
France, I love you!

SirBedevere
22-02-14, 18:22
Actually, this is something of which I approve. I despise it when announcers on American TV try to adopt a Spanish (usually more Mexican) accent when pronouncing a name like Buenos Aires or Nicaragua. Personally, I would prefer that we simply use names adopted in English, instead of trying to call Madras Chennai or Peking Beijing. After all, I have never heard an American announcer try to get the tones in Beijing right, so it is still nonsense to a Chinese ear. Of course, I also never hear these people try to pronounce Paris as one would in French or Athens as one would in Greek. When I hear TV announcers talking about Magyarország and al-Misr instead of Hungary and Egypt, I suppose I might worry about trying to pronounce names as they are in the native languages. Incidentally, do you mean Bretons and Basques or Bretoned and Euskarak?

bonair
06-09-14, 15:39
France was way better before

Ariaa
11-03-15, 13:53
I have never get any chance to visit France but after hear that it is filled with the Jam packed attractions. I must say that Next If I get a chance then I visit it and noticed it the discussion is how far true.

Maciamo
11-03-15, 16:57
France was way better before

Before the Neolithic or before the Triassic ? Try to be more specific.

Melancon
11-03-15, 21:56
I know some of these problems about France; I'm annoyed by it too. I've been there a few times actually. Apart from visiting a few interesting sights and exploring the French culture and learning it's history, it was a very disappointing experience; in terms of interacting with people. The French in general are miserable, pushy and aloof. You cannot enter France without not having someone there being suspicious of you; especially if they learn you are a tourist. And the most annoying thing of it all, is that they are prone to gossiping and spreading what little information about you to others. Almost like they are all a clan, and I'm "that American guy". Forget about admitting French ancestry or speaking French, they will always view you as "the outsider".

I've found most of them to be cold, complicit and unreliable. I've been accused of doing several things there; when there was nothing to suggest that I was doing anything wrong or even had the evidence to back it up. Many people judged and got mad at me without getting a chance to know me. I noticed, more than other countries; the French are suspicious of people and human nature in general.

I shouldn't be one to talk. But the country is a political mess; with people of all sides of the political spectrum. (left-wing, centrists, right-wingers). Even though they are bound by the French culture; the French people are often very distrustful of each other. Their strong-point is that they have a very strong and refined culture that brings them together, despite their differences. Their weak-point is that they seem totally lost, in terms of politics.

Maleth
12-03-15, 05:24
When I hear these negative comments I feel that I am living in a different world. I visited France 6 times (breaks and holidays) a couple of times hosted by locals, great food, good interactions with locals (and I don't even speak the language although my partner is fluent which Im sure it helps), there also a great ambiance with a 'French stamp' from Normandy to Marseilles and the Pyrenees to the German border. I never recall meeting all these disasters mentioned in this thread. Only great memories and beautiful pictures. Oh and the ATM machines worked too, and never paid by cheque :grin:

LeBrok
12-03-15, 05:32
When I hear these negative comments I feel that I am living in a different world. I visited France 6 times (breaks and holidays) a couple of times hosted by locals, great food, good interactions with locals (and I don't even speak the language although my partner is fluent which Im sure it helps), there also a great ambiance with a 'French stamp' from Normandy to Marseilles and the Pyrenees to the German border. I never recall meeting all these disasters mentioned in this thread. Only great memories and beautiful pictures. Oh and the ATM machines worked too, and never paid by cheque :grin:

Sometimes the reason that people or businesses will prefer to be paid by cheque are high credit card charges. 2-3% of each payment goes to Visa and Mastercard.
It is time to break this monopoly.

I haven't been to France, but wherever I go I address locals with a smile and kindness. Almost all people will reciprocate the same way, regardless of culture and race.

Maleth
12-03-15, 05:46
I haven't been to France, but wherever I go I address locals with a smile and kindness. Almost all people will reciprocate the same way, regardless of culture and race.

Indeed, attitude and respect is so important and you get the same in return. I was in Cauterets a very beautiful resort in Pyrenees, my partner was not with me and wanted to have a snack from an ordinary mobile van. The man quickly called his son to speak to me in English to see what I wanted. I also had a hot chocolate on top of Mount Chamonix.....and paid by visa card :). I really thought its not possible to have a connection on top of that mountain....but hey! :grin:

Aberdeen
12-03-15, 07:16
Indeed, attitude and respect is so important and you get the same in return. I was in Cauterets a very beautiful resort in Pyrenees, my partner was not with me and wanted to have a snack from an ordinary mobile van. The man quickly called his son to speak to me in English to see what I wanted. I also had a hot chocolate on top of Mount Chamonix.....and paid by visa card :). I really thought its not possible to have a connection on top of that mountain....but hey! :grin:

Waiters and retail staff in Paris can be rude, but in my experience it's much less common outside of Paris. Unless you are a tourist from Canada or the U.S. with some French ancestry and you think of yourself as French - the French will set you straight about that very quickly. I've known more than one Canadian Francophone who complained about being told in France to speak English because their French was supposedly too poor to be understood by French people (even though that wasn't actually true).

Maleth
12-03-15, 09:26
Waiters and retail staff in Paris can be rude, but in my experience it's much less common outside of Paris. Unless you are a tourist from Canada or the U.S. with some French ancestry and you think of yourself as French - the French will set you straight about that very quickly. I've known more than one Canadian Francophone who complained about being told in France to speak English because their French was supposedly too poor to be understood by French people (even though that wasn't actually true).

To what I can gather Paris is even slightly alien to the General French people. Its perhaps the most cosmopolitan in the francophone sense. Personally I did not experience any rudeness, but that's maybe as I mentioned my partner spoke excellent French. If not i might have a different story to say. I have also been told that Quebecers speak a different accent, but then I would not know the difference as they sound both the same to me.

The only time I can remember having a rude waitress was in a very remote Village we found by accident in the beautiful area of Loresse - Barousse. We asked what is the difference between two types of duck dishes (in French that is) that were on the menu and she kept saying. Cant you read French? she said it twice. It was funny in a way. But anyways this village (San Bertrand) was just like a movie set, so much charm and very old houses so well preserved it was a joy to be there. I found this kind of old world splendor all over France which I find fascinating and full of character. This maybe one of the reasons why year on year it has been the most visited country in the world. Defiantly a Bright side of France :good_job:

Angela
12-03-15, 15:18
To what I can gather Paris is even slightly alien to the General French people. Its perhaps the most cosmopolitan in the francophone sense. Personally I did not experience any rudeness, but that's maybe as I mentioned my partner spoke excellent French. If not i might have a different story to say. I have also been told that Quebecers speak a different accent, but then I would not know the difference as they sound both the same to me.

The only time I can remember having a rude waitress was in a very remote Village we found by accident in the beautiful area of Loresse - Barousse. We asked what is the difference between two types of duck dishes (in French that is) that were on the menu and she kept saying. Cant you read French? she said it twice. It was funny in a way. But anyways this village (San Bertrand) was just like a movie set, so much charm and very old houses so well preserved it was a joy to be there. I found this kind of old world splendor all over France which I find fascinating and full of character. This maybe one of the reasons why year on year it has been the most visited country in the world. Defiantly a Bright side of France :good_job:

The people in large metropolitan areas can often be more brusque than those from smaller, less stressful environments. That can be interpreted as rudeness. It's also true, however, that dealing with hordes of tourists, some of whom show scant appreciation for the host country, can result in some rude behavior from service personnel, but that can happen anywhere. However, as LeBrok and you have mentioned, in most countries, in most life situations, in fact, a smile and a respectful, friendly, attitude will usually elicit a positive response from the grumpiest person. Personally, I'm always touched by the "kindness of strangers", to quote Blanche DuBois.

As to France in particular, I cross into France from my home base in Italy nearly every year, and I do find them a bit brusque at times, and more closed even than the famously "closed" Ligurians:smile:, especially as I head further north. They're also a very proud people, and while they have a great deal of which to be proud, it can sometimes seem a bit excessive. Not absolutely everything is better in France, and nor do others like to be reminded of it at every turn. :grin: All of that said, the worst experiences I've ever had as a traveler, business or otherwise, were never in France. The only bad encounter that stands out vividly in my mind, in fact, is from years and years ago when I was backpacking across France with a bunch of university friends. A railway clerk deliberately gave my friend wrong information (in English as that was the language she had used), and then turned to his colleague and in French said that it served the American ******* right. I blistered his ears in a jumble of Italian, English, and my schoolgirl French as well, I can tell you. I was spitting mad. That whole section of the terminal grew as quiet and still as a church during high Mass. :laughing:

Maleth
12-03-15, 18:35
I'm always touched by the "kindness of strangers", to quote Blanche DuBois.

what a nice quote. How appropriate


. A railway clerk deliberately gave my friend wrong information (in English as that was the language she had used), and then turned to his colleague and in French said that it served the American ******* right. I blistered his ears in a jumble of Italian, English, and my schoolgirl French as well, I can tell you. I was spitting mad. That whole section of the terminal grew as quiet and still as a church during high Mass. :laughing:

wow railway clerk from everyone! How nasty. Maybe he learned his lesson. You described that so well I had a movie running in my mind, and (sorry) I have tears running down my face from laughing :grin:.

HQ420832
03-06-15, 19:51
I would say the worst thing is France is chauvinism and the almost absence of freedom of speech (except for critics of religions). Did you know, for example, that since 2003 to whistle the Marseillaise (the bloody and xenophobic French National Anthem) is punishable by a fine of €7,500 and up to six month’s imprisonment (Loi n° 2003-239 du 18 mars 2003, art. 433-5-1 Code pénal) !!

LeBrok
04-06-15, 01:52
I would say the worst thing is France is chauvinism and the almost absence of freedom of speech (except for critics of religions). Did you know, for example, that since 2003 to whistle the Marseillaise (the bloody and xenophobic French National Anthem) is punishable by a fine of €7,500 and up to six month’s imprisonment (Loi n° 2003-239 du 18 mars 2003, art. 433-5-1 Code pénal) !!
Wow, I find it very extreme cultural control.

Crosby
23-09-15, 09:32
I read all of theses posts very carefully. I must say that all the members have shared very nice own views about he dark side of France. I have no idea about this topic but seems very nice. Good effort by all of you.

Maciamo
25-09-15, 09:16
I would say the worst thing is France is chauvinism and the almost absence of freedom of speech (except for critics of religions). Did you know, for example, that since 2003 to whistle the Marseillaise (the bloody and xenophobic French National Anthem) is punishable by a fine of €7,500 and up to six month’s imprisonment (Loi n° 2003-239 du 18 mars 2003, art. 433-5-1 Code pénal) !!

Here is what the law actually says:

Le fait, au cours d'une manifestation organisée ou réglementée par les autorités publiques, d'outrager publiquement l'hymne national ou le drapeau tricolore est puni de 7 500 euros d'amende. Lorsqu'il est commis en réunion, cet outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende.


What is illegal in France is not to whistle the national anthem (that would be extremely weird), but to insult/disparage the national anthem or the the national flag during an event organised by the public authorities. So it does not apply to most situations. People can freely insult the national anthem in public as long as it is not, say, during the 14th July parade or during an international football at the Stade de France.

That's not as bad as say in India, where a special law (Prevention of Insults to National Honour Act, 1971) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevention_of_Insults_to_National_Honour_Act,_1971 ) states that "Whoever in any public place or in any other place within public view burns, mutilates, defaces, defiles, disfigures, destroys, tramples upon or otherwise shows disrespect to or brings into contempt (whether by words, either spoken or written, or by acts) the Indian National Flag or the Constitution of India or any part thereof, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both."

In Thailand, the Lèse majesté law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se_majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand) is extremely harsh. Just stepping on a coin or banknote (http://www.workandvolunteer.com/10-things-you-should-know-before-travelling-to-thailand) (even inadvertently) with the king's face on it can also land you in jail without trial. Many people have been sentenced to prison for many years for insulting the king (3 years for an Australian journalist in 2009 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1121822/Australian-writer-jailed-years-insulting-king-Thailand.html), 10 years for a Thai journalist in 2013 (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16656578-journalist-gets-10-year-prison-sentence-for-insulting-thai-king) and another man sentenced for 30 years (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/07/man-jailed-for-30-years-in-thailand-for-insulting-the-monarchy-on-facebook) no later than last month).

Tomenable
25-09-15, 19:40
I am amazed and dismayed that in the 21st century there could still be so little political will in France to pronounce foreign names and words properly. News anchors on French TV, be it public or private, national or international (like France 24), regularly butcher English words. To them, as to most French people as a result, the webiste LinkedIn in called "Lin-ke-din". They just read it as if it were a French word. Fortunately enough they don"t call Facebook "Fassbok". You have to give them credit for that (snigger).
As I have mentioned before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24594-What-annoys-you-%28about-the-news-on-TV%29), no effort in made in France to get foreigners' names right, not even heads of state sometime (after 10 years in office and saying his name many times in a year, French newscasters still don't know that the g is silent in Turkish Prime Minister's name, Erdoğan). Actually the French usually get Russian and Arabic names right because they have their own system for romanising Cyrillic and Arabic script, so that Putin is written Poutine in French (luckily enough, as if they had to read it Putin it would mean 'whore' in French).

It's interesting that on France 24, France's global equivalent of BBC World News, in the English version of the channel news presenters and guests alike almost never pronounce wrongly French names, as they are certainly briefed about it in advance, just to be sure nobody dares pronounce Champs-Élysées like an American tourist would. But it doesn't work the other way round. In the French version there is no one to advise them that the Chinese city of Hangzhou (pop. 8 million) is not pronounced "Anjou" like the French region.Well, at least French people don't write:

Arnoldas Švarcenegeris, Džeimsas Bondas, Džordžas Volkeris Bušas or Haris Poteris !!! :laughing:

Yetos
25-09-15, 21:00
I would say the worst thing is France is chauvinism and the almost absence of freedom of speech (except for critics of religions). Did you know, for example, that since 2003 to whistle the Marseillaise (the bloody and xenophobic French National Anthem) is punishable by a fine of €7,500 and up to six month’s imprisonment (Loi n° 2003-239 du 18 mars 2003, art. 433-5-1 Code pénal) !!

that is ugly,
whistling national anthem is a crime?


anyway I consider the anthem lyrics very epic, and I consider that anthem one of the best in the world

Aaron1981
28-09-15, 14:39
The French government would like tourists to believe that France is at the forefront of modern technology, the land of TGV, Airbus and the Ariane space programme (although the latter two are European rather than French). But the truth is that France still lags behind in many respect, especially from a legal or political point of view.

France is the only Western European country with a compulsory identity cards system that does not yet have electronic ID cards. In comparison, neighbouring Belgium introduced electronic ID cards in 2002 and nowadays there are even electronic ID cards for kids and for foreign residents. Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Iceland, Norway, Finland, Estonia, and even Romania all have electronic ID cards. France doesn't.

I have explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24241-French-post-and-banking-service-embarassingly-inefficient) how inefficient the French post and banking service were. Additionally, France is one of the last countries in Europe where cheques are still one of the main forms of payments (about 30% of all transactions). Only Malta and Cyprus use cheques more frequently. The use of debit and credit cards in France is one of the lowest in the developed world. It feels like the French don't trust technology and like to stick to the old paper.

France is the only developed country where paternity tests (so practically any kind of DNA test) are prohibited by law. If you order a paternity test via the Internet or by telephone in France, not only the shipment may be confiscated by the customs but you risk a year in prison and a fine of € 15,000 (Article 226-28 of the Penal Code). (source (http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/france-upholds-the-ban-on-paternity-tests/)) I consider that as a serious Human Rights infringement. Read more (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28882-Ordering-a-DNA-test-in-France-is-a-crime-punishable-by-heavy-fines-and-jail-time).

I don't watch much TV but when I do it is often French TV, and I am appalled almost every time that programmes never start on time. I am not complaining about a few minutes here. Some programmes start 15-20 minutes late, and occasionally they even start 10-15 minutes early, which is even more annoying. In the digital age how can they still manage their timetables so poorly ? Unfortunately this is a reflection of French society as a whole. The French are almost never on time for anything. It's a problem as endemic as in southern Italy.

If you drive around Western Europe one thing you will notice immediately is the contrast between the old age and poor condition of the average French car on the road compared to those in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Britain, and in fact practically anywhere where the GDP per capita is supposedly similar. The reason is that the French government is not strict enough regarding vehicle inspection. Half of the cars in the French countryside would be prohibited to drive in Germanic countries.

This Latin laissez-aller attitude is found at many other levels of French society. The antiquated French education system has been blamed recently (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22985889) by a BBC journalist for the pervading gloomy mood in modern French society. One of the main issues in France today is that young people have too much freedom to choose whatever subject they want at university. Because education is free, many change their mind halfway through their studies or study to get two or even three degrees, then go to work in other (mostly English-speaking) countries where the work market is more flexible and better paid.

So the French people end up paying for one of the world's most expensive tertiary education system, and a lot of this money never comes back into the system as brighter people leave France. Among those that remain, many will be unemployable anyway because they have useless degrees or too many degrees (= too expensive to employ), or both. If the French were a bit stricter on entrance exams, set higher fees, and encouraged people to study for degrees for which there is a real demand on the market, the French economy would be much healthier.

French people live the longest in the EU, and yet they have the earliest retirement age (62 years old, against 65 to 67 in other countries). The French constantly oppose all kind of necessary reforms of the economic system, staging national strikes and massive demonstrations at the slightest inconvenience. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if France became the next Greece, and eventually led to the collapse of the Eurozone.

7 years ago, I was already writing a thread Is France "the sick man of Europe" ? (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/24266-Is-France-quot-the-sick-man-of-Europe-quot) in reaction to an article by The Economist. Since then things have gone from bad to worse, and the incompetence and irresolution of President Hollande does not augur well for the years to come.

They kicked (part of) my family out 300 years ago and we'd been living there for thousands of years at least. I think they'd rather pander to terrorists and people who don't even want to become French.

The_Lyonnist
01-10-15, 21:30
Stupid government.

Nobody1
10-10-15, 10:23
I always thought that this was the dark-side of France;

http://www.livesoccertv.com/world-cup-2006/images/teams/medium/FRA.jpg

Maleth
30-07-16, 13:13
You will need to find someone on this forum who makes a living as a landlord to vouch for this. My aunt used to rent out townhouses and now she owns a hotel. She has over 10 years of experiences in this career, and you?

35 years experience. Interview your tenants it helps. There were times when tenants could not pay for the month but always payed back their dues. Sometimes you get very difficult ones but they are the exception and not the rule.


I told you a lot of my background to try to avoid misunderstanding from you, now can you tell me a something about you? Otherwise every time I say something, you will be saying things like, now we in Europe....blah blah blah.

What you like to know about me? would you like the facebook account? :)


Oh, as landlord, if you meet nightmare tenants you can go to the court and sue them, then police will come and drag the bad tenants out of your property, but then it is you who have to pay for all those services, and the poor tenants pay nothing

Its part of the business no business comes easy. All in all it seems you have expanded so its a good thing.



I am wondering about something. It says that you are Maltese on your profile and that you live in Malta. So why you have a French flag?

I have a Maltese flag on my profile and always did. Its red and white with the George cross given by King George after world war two in recognition for not given up against the Nazi and Fascist forces to which was on of the most heavily bombarded place on Earth and yet not taken over. Where are you seeing the French flag?


Have you lived in France? A lot of French people I know know about this and I know A LOT of French people.

Good for you. I love France. Culture, Architecture, Food. I have friends there too. I have visited so far 9 times, from Normandy to Marseilles the Alps to Pyrenees. One of my very good friends locally is French (from Normandy) Married to a Maltese (my links in France are through her). And what does it matter anyway?


I do not hate poor people. If you think so, you don't know me at all. I do not see poor people as animals as you put it. If you say that about Malaysia, like most Europeans you have very little knowledge about Asia. With my over ten years of experiences with the Europeans, I can tell you that most Europeans know a lot of things about their own continent, a lot of things about the US and a lot of things about Africa, but very little or none about Asia. In the EU curriculum, it is not compulsory to study anything about Asia. The amount of ignorance I experience as an Asian person in Europe is worth writing a book.

You are right I have very little experience about Asia in General. culturally its very diverse. Indian culture has nothing to do with the Muslim tan ending countries. Phillipinos are the largest non EU migrants we have locally. Very nice people and incredibly hard workers. Very often send money to their families back home. Cuisine is delicious. We always had a good image of Chinese (long ties with Malta). I usually have an Asian (as in Cantonese, Thai and so on) every month (its addictive). They are all over the place. I think we have one Malaysian restaurant on the south side of the harbour. Maybe I should visit.


In Malaysia there are plenty of poor people. Malaysia is NOT a first world country. If you want to to succeed in life you have to work very hard for it.

Now, in France if you have a lot of children, and if you are very poor, you can claim a lot of money from the government. Once again, people abuse the robin hood system, this is one of the reasons why the French socialist system is failing among other things. The government is trying to change it, then people protest everywhere. This country does not just need a reform, they need a revolution. This socialist system is just breeding pesticides. This is one part of France I dislike, even though I love many other things French.

Moreover, the Malaysian passport is one of the best passports in the world. If you do a bit of research you will find that Malaysia is NOT a first world country. Most of the best passports of the world are countries of first worlds.

https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php

If you compare Malaysia with a lot of countries out there, you will find it is a peaceful country by comparison.

There is alot of good in the French welfare system but I agree with you that the French Mentality is very resistant to change. It reminds me of all the protests when Mcdonals tried to set up shop in the country. Much of the French reforms that the government is trying to propose with so much resistance have already been done in many other countries. We had these reforms done gradually starting in the 80's and the economy benefits form it. But most French think otherwise I think.



There is also a difference on how poor we are talking about. When the people are extremely poor, there is a high risk they will become criminals.

For example, most spammers are from Nigeria because it is an extremely poor country:
In 2011, the FBI received close to 30,000 reports of advance fee ploys, called "419 scams" after the section of the Nigerian criminal code that outlaws fraud. The agency received over 4,000 complaints of advance fee romance scams in 2012, with victim losses totaling over $55 million.Mar 20, 2014

My British colleagues wanted to drag me to their vacations in India. I told them that there will be harrassments. Now, they are a couple years younger than me, so they took it as a joke and gone to India. I received a complaint message from them recently, saying that the men over there are freaky and scary.

Well, at least they are still in one piece, and unharmed. Worst case scenarios are rape and be killed.

I have done charity work, and still doing one... but the difference is those jobs I did and am doing are done or am doing out of freewill, which is completely different when somebody is stealing from you and harassing you because they think because you are better off than them, you must give to them.



I think you are very old fashioned, so that is my impression so far... Everything has to be done in your way. If somebody doesn't agree with you, you try to make it look like I am some kind of pathetic person, that I should adopt your method because you think you are better than me. Newsflash, there will be people who don't agree with you. C'est la vie!

Britain never wanted to be part of the EU in the first place. It is very different from the way they do things. Its a very state orientated thing. They prefer freedom of the individual - restriction on the freedom of the individual, political correctness, when you limit speech about what you can say, [barring] something that might offend someone; they are very much orientated to a wide business. They want to look at the rest of the world. They want be trading with the Far East, China. The EU does not suit them; they are tired of this dying economy with a collapsing Euro. Countries like Greece, Spain, and Portugal are going bust. They do not want to be part of this.

There are genuine poor people that get to that state or have been in that state for genuine reasons. Many European welfare systems have elevated this section through help from government as in Free health and education and housing. Many of them are today are well educated and earn decent wages and not in the poverty line anymore. Thanks for the system. The trend persists but not the initial extent to when the welfare system started. Then there are the abusers. Its up to the system to recognize which is which. Many countries do a good job. Probably some are more lax then other. Abusers do not merit to bashing who is really in need.


The British people have spoken. It is like when somebody want out of the marriage, you try to drag them against their will to stay in the marriage and you are very sarcastic about it, just because you don't agree with their decision. We will see, what will happen. I think in the short term, no doubt there will be disadvantages for the British but in the long term the tables can turn.

I think I explained what was the main reason why People voted Brexit. And now you tell me I am sarcastic. Any point debating with you? Think what you like. Its ok for me. By the way this is incredibly off topic so i transfered it to here.....its more appropriate

Minty
30-07-16, 16:50
35 years experience. Interview your tenants it helps. There were times when tenants could not pay for the month but always payed back their dues. Sometimes you get very difficult ones but they are the exception and not the rule.

Trust me after so many years of doing this as a living, she has come up with lots of tactics to tackle bad tenants or to avoid bad tenants!

35 years??!!! You must be at least double my age! This is what I am talking about, I know nothing about you so it is difficult for me to see whom I am talking to...



What you like to know about me? would you like the facebook account? :)

Sorry, Monsieur I don't add people I don't know in my facebook :) Thank you for your understanding...:blush:

What I am asking here is not really that, but enough information about you without stumping over each other's feet and create arguments full of misunderstandings. You have been assuming that you are talking to somebody who knows nothing about Europe judging from my phenotype. I refuse to put a real picture of myself for privacy purposes, but my avatar and the things I say ( if you bother to read many of my posts) clearly state that I am of Asian descents.

I feel that a lot of the things you say to me, you have made a lot of assumptions based on ignorance of my race. :smile_fan:



Its part of the business no business comes easy. All in all it seems you have expanded so its a good thing.

That, I agree. Finally we found something we agree with. Bravo! :beer:



I have a Maltese flag on my profile and always did. Its red and white with the George cross given by King George after world war two in recognition for not given up against the Nazi and Fascist forces to which was on of the most heavily bombarded place on Earth and yet not taken over. Where are you seeing the French flag?

Ok, now I think it is the blue part of the EU's flag that made it look like your flag is blue white red, and I thought that small dotted thing was like a bug. I took a good look at your flag in larger version, I see it much clearer now. Thank you for clearing that up. :83:




Good for you. I love France. Culture, Architecture, Food. I have friends there too. I have visited so far 9 times, from Normandy to Marseilles the Alps to Pyrenees. One of my very good friends locally is French (from Normandy) Married to a Maltese (my links in France are through her). And what does it matter anyway?

It does matter...because since you got French connections, why don't you get your French friends to translate for you. :beat_brick:

Here are the sites in French:

http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/faq/7730-treve-hivernale-et-expulsion-dates-et-locataires-proteges

http://www.pratique.fr/expulsion-conditions-recours.html

http://www.legavox.fr/blog/maitre-joan-dray/expulsion-droits-locataires-3802.htm#.V5y2OI9OJaQ



You are right I have very little experience about Asia in General. culturally its very diverse. Indian culture has nothing to do with the Muslim tan ending countries. Phillipinos are the largest non EU migrants we have locally. Very nice people and incredibly hard workers. Very often send money to their families back home. Cuisine is delicious. We always had a good image of Chinese (long ties with Malta). I usually have an Asian (as in Cantonese, Thai and so on) every month (its addictive). They are all over the place. I think we have one Malaysian restaurant on the south side of the harbour. Maybe I should visit.

This is why I have so much problem talking to European people who have never been every where, I have the same problem with Australians and Asians who never been anywhere too, but the ignorant parts are different.



There is alot of good in the French welfare system but I agree with you that the French Mentality is very resistant to change. It reminds me of all the protests when Mcdonals tried to set up shop in the country. Much of the French reforms that the government is trying to propose with so much resistance have already been done in many other countries. We had these reforms done gradually starting in the 80's and the economy benefits form it. But most French think otherwise I think.

On one hand, some of my french friends agree with me, they are tired of their countries and moved. On the other hand, some of my french friends approve of what I think but still choose to stay in their country because they love their country. THE END.




There are genuine poor people that get to that state or have been in that state for genuine reasons. Many European welfare systems have elevated this section through help from government as in Free health and education and housing. Many of them are today are well educated and earn decent wages and not in the poverty line anymore. Thanks for the system. The trend persists but not the initial extent to when the welfare system started. Then there are the abusers. Its up to the system to recognize which is which. Many countries do a good job. Probably some are more lax then other. Abusers do not merit to bashing who is really in need.

I have friends who come from family that were refugees who are descent people who work hard and don't abuse the system. Unfortunately, there is a hole in this robin hood system, when you give people a taste of the cake they just want more and more. It is NEVER enough for people who abuse the system. Obama did so much for African Americans during his presidency. They still are not satisfied and want more and more. :moneygrubber:

7897



I think I explained what was the main reason why People voted Brexit. And now you tell me I am sarcastic. Any point debating with you? Think what you like. Its ok for me. By the way this is incredibly off topic so i transfered it to here.....its more appropriate

I am aware of the reasons why there is a Brexit, what I am saying is that British have very different mentality than the other Europeans. You can disagree with their decisions but it is a democratic country so you need to respect their decision.

I do as I please, I did not break any forum rules that is why my account still works till today, I joined a long time ago. I don't always come online every day. I am on vacation now so I have a bit of time to participate in this. When I see posts where I got something to say I comment on them. You seem to want me to arrange things in a specific order. If I come here everyday I could do that but I don't. Different strokes for different folks! :27:

Wanderlust
08-08-16, 14:11
I have friends who come from family that were refugees who are descent people who work hard and don't abuse the system. Unfortunately, there is a hole in this robin hood system, when you give people a taste of the cake they just want more and more. It is NEVER enough for people who abuse the system. Obama did so much for African Americans during his presidency. They still are not satisfied and want more and more. :moneygrubber:

7897

You have no idea of what you're talking about. Please cite the things that President Obama specifically did for black people. And please cite specifically how they abuse the system (which is what you imply). Thanks.

Maleth
10-08-16, 00:24
Trust me after so many years of doing this as a living, she has come up with lots of tactics to tackle bad tenants or to avoid bad tenants!

35 years??!!! You must be at least double my age! This is what I am talking about, I know nothing about you so it is difficult for me to see whom I am talking to...

Does anyone know anyone on these boards before they write anything?


Sorry, Monsieur I don't add people I don't know in my facebook :) Thank you for your understanding...:blush:

I thought you would read through my sarcasm. ;)


What I am asking here is not really that, but enough information about you without stumping over each other's feet and create arguments full of misunderstandings. You have been assuming that you are talking to somebody who knows nothing about Europe judging from my phenotype.

What kind of information you need to know? Do you find people on the boards asking for peoples information to be able to say something? I hope its not some kind of paranoia?


I refuse to put a real picture of myself for privacy purposes, but my avatar and the things I say ( if you bother to read many of my posts) clearly state that I am of Asian descents.

Do you think it will make a difference? and anyone really cares what the person look likes before they make a comment? Does anyone put a picture of themselves here?


I feel that a lot of the things you say to me, you have made a lot of assumptions based on ignorance of my race. :smile_fan:

are you serious? who mentioned your race or what you look like?



Ok, now I think it is the blue part of the EU's flag that made it look like your flag is blue white red, and I thought that small dotted thing was like a bug. I took a good look at your flag in larger version, I see it much clearer now. Thank you for clearing that up. :83:

yes a french flag with stars and bugs :grin:



It does matter...because since you got French connections, why don't you get your French friends to translate for you. :beat_brick:

Here are the sites in French:

http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/faq/7730-treve-hivernale-et-expulsion-dates-et-locataires-proteges

http://www.pratique.fr/expulsion-conditions-recours.html

http://www.legavox.fr/blog/maitre-joan-dray/expulsion-droits-locataires-3802.htm#.V5y2OI9OJaQ

Google translate would do it too




This is why I have so much problem talking to European people who have never been every where, I have the same problem with Australians and Asians who never been anywhere too, but the ignorant parts are different.

For continiously bragging that you have been all over the world as if no one heard of Australia you are not sounding any smarter then the European you are making your bread and butter with.



On one hand, some of my french friends agree with me, they are tired of their countries and moved. On the other hand, some of my french friends approve of what I think but still choose to stay in their country because they love their country. THE END.

Living in France is much better then living in most other countries in the world, you don't need to sound so ungrateful, you don't sound to me like you are living on food stamps. You can make an effort and try to make your posts with some respect.


I have friends who come from family that were refugees who are descent people who work hard and don't abuse the system. Unfortunately, there is a hole in this robin hood system, when you give people a taste of the cake they just want more and more. It is NEVER enough for people who abuse the system. Obama did so much for African Americans during his presidency. They still are not satisfied and want more and more. :moneygrubber:


Good for them, I was mentioning welfare system for the locals not refugees. Refugees have an understanding that they have to go back when things settle in their country. Economic migrants are a different story.



I am aware of the reasons why there is a Brexit, what I am saying is that British have very different mentality than the other Europeans. You can disagree with their decisions but it is a democratic country so you need to respect their decision.

Its like you cannot distinguish the difference between apples and oranges and then you tell others they know nothing. Where did anyone say their decision is not respected? the faster they leave the better because thats what they voted for. That is what I said and please stop saying nonsense.


I do as I please, I did not break any forum rules that is why my account still works till today, I joined a long time ago. I don't always come online every day. I am on vacation now so I have a bit of time to participate in this. When I see posts where I got something to say I comment on them. You seem to want me to arrange things in a specific order. If I come here everyday I could do that but I don't. Different strokes for different folks! :27:

No you cannot hijack a thread with your rants. If you want to talk about the darker side of France find the proper thread and not hijack one that has nothing to do with it. Only a selfish people would find it fine to do that, I really dislike selfish people.

And when I am on holiday I don't spend my time on forums.....:unbelievable:

berun
06-04-18, 21:31
To me the worst is how the state education bounds people in a dog-master-like relation, or if the state would be a third parent, a kind of brain washing that many French are uncapable to recognise which erodes much own thinking and identity (traditions, dialects, religion); of course there is the flag and the Marsellaise, but are state inventions. The best is a product of such state, wellfare and free time, enjoying vine, travels, music, arts, cuisine, etc.

hrvclv
26-09-18, 01:16
No doubt my country has its shortcomings. Chauvinism and bad temper are far from ranking top though. The tax rates are far ahead. And so is that thick slab of media-inflicted political correctness, which pressures you into "thinking right".

And yet the bottom line is : I've travelled around a bit, in Europe and out of it, and however much I enjoyed my stays abroad, at the end of the day I always ended up feeling glad to get back home...

It can't be that bad then, can it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAo9heXWtE

Jovialis
26-09-18, 02:19
No doubt my country has its shortcomings. Chauvinism and bad temper are far from ranking top though. The tax rates are far ahead. And so is that thick slab of media-inflicted political correctness, which pressures you into "thinking right".

And yet the bottom line is : I've travelled around a bit, in Europe and out of it, and however much I enjoyed my stays abroad, at the end of the day I always ended up feeling glad to get back home...

It can't be that bad then, can it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAo9heXWtE

France is definitely a country I plan on visiting for vacation eventually :)

Angela
26-09-18, 04:59
No doubt my country has its shortcomings. Chauvinism and bad temper are far from ranking top though. The tax rates are far ahead. And so is that thick slab of media-inflicted political correctness, which pressures you into "thinking right".

And yet the bottom line is : I've travelled around a bit, in Europe and out of it, and however much I enjoyed my stays abroad, at the end of the day I always ended up feeling glad to get back home...

It can't be that bad then, can it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAo9heXWtE

Every country has its shortcomings; it would be silly to think otherwise.

However, I usually cross over into France every summer, and I love it there, as I've said often. It's my favorite country after my birth and adopted ones. Partly, I was taught it, as my father was a francophile, but I've found plenty to admire and grow fond of on my own. What is there not to like: beautiful scenery, architecture, art, food, clothes, perfume, and on and on?

I'm particularly grateful to French people for the kindness they showed us on my mother's last trip abroad, when she was already very ill. From the waiter at our hotel in Paris who would bring her extra croissants au chocolat when he saw how she loved them, to the chef in the restaurant at the foot of the Tour St. Jacques who made such a fuss over my father when he so adored the eel stew that they kept on bringing out, to the family that owned a little restaurant showcasing the food of the Auvergne, to the tour guides in Monaco and Nice who took such good care of her, they made a sick woman feel like a queen. I'll never forget it.

It was my mother who taught me that most of the time you draw to yourself what you give out. Other than one incident when I was very young, I've always been treated very well in France.

As for political correctness it is a plague that is beginning to cover the whole world. I am beginning to fear for my adopted country.

(That little Auvergne style bistro was called " 'A Sousceyrac". Unfortunately, I think it's gone now. The food was so good, and the people so warm we went back twice. )

Maciamo
26-09-18, 09:25
No doubt my country has its shortcomings. Chauvinism and bad temper are far from ranking top though. The tax rates are far ahead. And so is that thick slab of media-inflicted political correctness, which pressures you into "thinking right".

And yet the bottom line is : I've travelled around a bit, in Europe and out of it, and however much I enjoyed my stays abroad, at the end of the day I always ended up feeling glad to get back home...

It can't be that bad then, can it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAo9heXWtE

Don't get me wrong. France is a spectacular country and surely one of the best places in the world to live. It is more egalitarian than any other European country except Scandinavian ones. Social security and healthcare excellent. French cuisine is among the best in the world. The historical heritage is almost unsurpassed (debatably only by Italy). It is one of the most beautiful countries in Europe for nature. Etc.

In this thread I was trying to explain that not everything is perfect in France. But I disagree that the tax rate comes far ahead of the things I listed. In fact the taxes in France are very much in the European average and that is what supports the social security and healthcare. Income taxes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_in_Europe) in France are lower than in Finland, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Serbia, Lithuania, Greece and Portugal. France's VAT rate (at 20%) is also among the lowest in Europe. If we exclude small countries with less than 2 million inhabitants, only Germany (19%), Romania (19%), Bosnia (17%) and Russia (18%) have lower VAT than France, and not by much. There is only one thing for which France is champion, it is corporate tax, especially for large companies. But is that a bad thing?

hrvclv
26-09-18, 09:53
I didn't get you wrong... In fact I endorse much of what you wrote. I only intended to mitigate the overall poor impression the thread as a whole could leave about my country.

This said, in terms of taxes, what you need to consider is the sum total of all the various contributions we are subjected to - what we call in French "prélèvements obligatoires". You'll find an interesting graph there :

http://www.rexecode.fr/public/Analyses-et-previsions/Documents-de-travail/Les-ecarts-de-prelevements-obligatoires-entre-la-France-et-la-zone-euro

2.6% higher than Italy. 7% higher than Germany. 12% higher than Spain. No wonder we find it hard to compete on international markets...

MelvynGreer
19-03-19, 15:28
On the law on fatherhood, I have doubts. On the one hand, this is correct, but on the other, it is strange.