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Maciamo
01-07-13, 11:06
Croatia has joined today the European Union, becoming its 28th member state, just two decades after it declared independence from Yugoslavia. Croatia is hoping to join the Eurozone within 4 or 5 years.

FBS
01-07-13, 14:07
Congratulations to Croatia, wish them all the best of luck with the Eurozone!

LeBrok
01-07-13, 16:42
In face of people hoping for disintegration of EU.

Dovadiv
02-07-13, 14:23
Croatia is a good tourism place , so they will get enough money , but i heard that the Serbs want to join , and i fully disagree about that. Those war mongs attacked Bosnia , Kosovo , Croatia , Macedonia , etc.. , and it wasn't so long ago that that happend.
They killed a lot of people , in a cruel way.

Templar
02-07-13, 15:40
Croatia is a good tourism place , so they will get enough money , but i heard that the Serbs want to join , and i fully disagree about that. Those war mongs attacked Bosnia , Kosovo , Croatia , Macedonia , etc.. , and it wasn't so long ago that that happend.
They killed a lot of people , in a cruel way.

True, but not all Serbs are bad people. Many are just brainwashed by their elders or just were raised in an environment where they were surrounded by extremely conservative villagers. Once education and internet access expands, atheism will eventually prevail and they will lose their strong nationalism. From all the evidence I've seen, it was religion that created for them a sense of division and reason why to hate neighboring Muslim people. I think we should always judge people as individuals rather than in groups.

Religion can be a very dangerous thing indeed.

Yetos
02-07-13, 17:13
If Croats wanted that, and voted for it, I wish them every luck, and hapiness and prosperity,
If was a politicians choice, my compassions to them.

Cambrius (The Red)
04-07-13, 21:59
Congratulations Croatia! Let's hope things start improving in the EU and the Eurozone, otherwise ...

Coolboygcp
12-08-13, 21:46
Welcome Croatia! I believe that they will be a great member of the EU over the years to come!

Did anyone see those big festivities held in the capital of Croatia when they acceded to the EU? Simply brilliant.

ElHorsto
13-08-13, 13:39
...atheism will eventually prevail and they will lose their strong nationalism. From all the evidence I've seen, it was religion that created for them a sense of division and reason why to hate neighboring Muslim people.

I thought this conflict was not religious. Since turks brought islam to balkans, nationalistic serbs consider all muslims as turks by proxy and use christendom as proxy for their own nationalism. By that I agree that without religions this "turk-non-turk" paranoia would probably disappear.
Maybe the Northern Ireland conflict is similar (protestant-catholic)?

julia90
13-08-13, 14:46
Congrats to the Hrvats :D

Templar
13-08-13, 20:54
I thought this conflict was not religious. Since turks brought islam to balkans, nationalistic serbs consider all muslims as turks by proxy and use christendom as proxy for their own nationalism. By that I agree that without religions this "turk-non-turk" paranoia would probably disappear.
Maybe the Northern Ireland conflict is similar (protestant-catholic)?

There are no major differences between Croats, Bosniaks, and Serbs; other than religion. If they all had the same religion, they would have assimilated into one big ethnicity a long time ago.

"Maybe the Northern Ireland conflict is similar (protestant-catholic)?"

Exactly. Religious diversity causes problems where ever it is present.

ElHorsto
13-08-13, 22:11
There are no major differences between Croats, Bosniaks, and Serbs; other than religion. If they all had the same religion, they would have assimilated into one big ethnicity a long time ago.

"Maybe the Northern Ireland conflict is similar (protestant-catholic)?"

Exactly. Religious diversity causes problems where ever it is present.

I mean religion was just a label for culture and history, like language is, or like red and blue shirts in sports are. If they would speak different languages (turkish, german, russian) then they would probably still not be one ethnicity despite having the same religion, or would they?

Nobody1
13-08-13, 22:42
I mean religion was just a label for culture and history, like language is, or like red and blue shirts in sports are. If they would speak different languages (turkish, german, russian) then they would probably still not be one ethnicity despite having the same religion, or would they?

Ustase considered Bosniaks to be ethnic Croats - but religiously Muslim;
Handschar and Black Legion were also part of NDH;

I think animosities between Bosniaks and Serbs is greater than between Croats and Bosniaks;
maybe Jasenovac and Bleiburg were still very much alive in Yugoslav consciousness after Tito died;
Fears of loosing powers and control again especially on side of the Serbs;

In the 90s Yugoslav wars there were also Christian volunteers fighting alongside the muslim Bosniaks against the Serbs;

Just one example story -
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1993/German-Janitor-Trades-Mop-and-Pail-for-Sniper-Rifle-With-PM-Yugoslavia-Bjt/id-2037a96d0840e775cf4615e4bb5d2bc0

kamani
13-08-13, 22:52
I mean religion was just a label for culture and history, like language is, or like red and blue shirts in sports are. If they would speak different languages (turkish, german, russian) then they would probably still not be one ethnicity despite having the same religion, or would they?

The balkan tensions were created in the last 400 years, as a divide and conquer policy by the ottoman empire. They wanted the Balkans to be a mix of muslims and christians so that they would argue with each-other and not unite against the turks. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the Balkans are stupid and don't understand this.

ElHorsto
13-08-13, 23:52
Ustase considered Bosniaks to be ethnic Croats - but religiously Muslim;
Handschar and Black Legion were also part of NDH;

I think animosities between Bosniaks and Serbs is greater than between Croats and Bosniaks;
maybe Jasenovac and Bleiburg were still very much alive in Yugoslav consciousness after Tito died;
Fears of loosing powers and control again especially on side of the Serbs;

In the 90s Yugoslav wars there were also Christian volunteers fighting alongside the muslim Bosniaks against the Serbs;

Just one example story -
http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1993/German-Janitor-Trades-Mop-and-Pail-for-Sniper-Rifle-With-PM-Yugoslavia-Bjt/id-2037a96d0840e775cf4615e4bb5d2bc0

I think this has changed a lot during the conflict. These right-wing and catholic volunteers came mostly during the early ninetees because they thought the serbs were pro-yugoslavian communist partizans and because they assumed to help Ustase and Handzar from the past. Later most of them (except the catholics) changed their opinion and went home, because they realized that serbs were acting very nationalistic and not so yugoslavian. Finally serb and croat inmates in Den Hague even cooperated together against the court. Looks like the serb-croat animosities were bigger at the beginning.

Coolboygcp
13-08-13, 23:55
I think that some other Balkan states could join the EU, however, some I am against.

None of the following:

Kosovo
Serbia
Albania

These three have too many issues to deal with, and they can't join the EU until these issues are resolved.

Bosnia, maybe they can join, same with Montenegro, etc. I think other nations, ie, Iceland, Greenland, Faroe Islands, Turkey, Morocco, Norway, Sweden; would better new members of the EU.

ElHorsto
14-08-13, 00:00
The balkan tensions were created in the last 400 years, as a divide and conquer policy by the ottoman empire. They wanted the Balkans to be a mix of muslims and christians so that they would argue with each-other and not unite against the turks. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the Balkans are stupid and don't understand this.

Very true. And not only the ottomans were involved but also Rome, Byzantinum, Austria-Hungary, Russia, England, Saudi-Arabia, Germany, France, US, Soviet Union. The serb-croat division in particular is mostly due to catholic vs. orthodox division, which comes from west rome and byzantinum, resp., not from ottomans.

Nobody1
14-08-13, 00:31
I think this has changed a lot during the conflict. These right-wing and catholic volunteers came mostly during the early ninetees because they thought the serbs were pro-yugoslavian communist partizans and because they assumed to help Ustase and Handzar from the past. Later most of them (except the catholics) changed their opinion and went home, because they realized that serbs were acting very nationalistic and not so yugoslavian. Finally serb and croat inmates in Den Hague even cooperated together against the court. Looks like the serb-croat animosities were bigger at the beginning.

Yes,
The political aspect [Nationalism/Communism] def. played a part in the early stages with the volunteers;

I think it also changed the most when the Mujahideens started to show up in Bosnia;
Maybe the Sarajevo area was still different;