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View Full Version : DNA has possibly found Europeans long lost brothers



Fire Haired
04-07-13, 14:32
I have always assumed that Ethnic groups in and around the Caucus mountains like Georgainas and Armenians where white and that they lived in eastern Europe and where some how related to Russians. But in DNA they have almost no European blood even though they look so European. IN austomnal DNA which basically tells ur full ancestry the original European group most tests call it north European because it is most popular in northern Europe. In globe13 austomnal DNA Georgains have 57.3% west Asian, 25.3% med, 13.2% southwest Asian, and only 2,9% north European.

here are some examples of Georgains
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fPbeWR4SObTP/340x.jpghttp://internet.ge/v2/news_images/200909253632.jpghttp://i027.radikal.ru/0905/e0/094af3f430f8.jpghttp://i.piccy.info/i4/33/e2/c15190c32ffd233166a234e74565.jpeg

But it seems that Georgians have very very very little European blood. Even though they look so European. I don't think u can say that they get these looks from inter marriage with Europeans because the there is no significant amount of European blood in their DNA. in globe13 the austomnal DNA group west asian is centered in the Caucus mountains. West Asian is the brother to the original European group north European. This could mean people in the caucus mountains are just very close relatives to Europeans. Also originally till just 10,000ybp Europeans had almost only Y DNA I but because of invasions migration and inter marriage Y DNA I is ony about 20% in Europe today but y DNA is just a direct lineage Europeans are European and different from other people because of the Y DNA I people. Y DNA I's original form I M170 which is aged at about 30,000ybp. Is very very very rare it is only about 2% of totaly Y DNA I in Europe it is found at a higher rate of the Y DNA I around the caucus moauntians and Iraq. In some areas of the south caucus and Iraq I M170 is the only form of Y DNA I. This means I M170 might have originated around the Caucus mountains and Iraq about 30,000-35,000ybp this is also in the area where austomnal DNA group west Asian is most popular. I dont know there might be a connection Y DNA I, west asian austomnal DNA, and white looking people in the caucus mountains.

The main genes we know of that create pale skin in Europeans are found in mid eastern, and north African people at almost the same rate. So white skin in Europeans did not originate in Europe it first started in the mid east about 60,000ybp. It just became dominate in Europeans ancestors for a unknown reason also it seems that blue eyes also orignated in the middle east about 60,000ybp here is a link that explains it http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/herc2-haplotypes-phylogeny-and.html just blue eyes became more popular in European ancestors. But people in the caucus mountains are dominated by the same pale skin genes and have over 10% blue eyes but have almost no European blood

Maybe Europeans ancestors migrated out of the caucus mountains with Y DNA I 30,000-35,000ybp. And ethnic groups in the caucus mountains are Europeans closet relatives

nordicwarrior
04-07-13, 16:14
I would trust your own eyes before some autosomal test results. It's easy to get carried away with this stuff. Everything in moderation.

LeBrok
04-07-13, 16:55
Started very interesting and intriguing, but unfortunately I couldn't get through this "one long sentence" style of yours to the end.

inver2b1
04-07-13, 21:16
Maybe it's your concept of Europeanness based on paleness that's the problem.

Fire Haired
04-07-13, 21:20
Maybe it's your concept of Europeanness based on paleness that's the problem.

it is a fact all europeans are white the few non white europeans in far southern Europe are because of mid eastern and north African inter marraige i get sick of it when people try to stay away from skin color when it come to race that is actulley one of the best ways to define people groups and white people is a great way to define Europeans and since people in the caucus who have almost no European blood have white skin and the same genes for white skin as Europeans somehow they have to be related

albanopolis
04-07-13, 21:42
it is a fact all europeans are white the few non white europeans in far southern Europe are because of mid eastern and north African inter marraige i get sick of it when people try to stay away from skin color when it come to race that is actulley one of the best ways to define people groups and white people is a great way to define Europeans and since people in the caucus who have almost no European blood have white skin and the same genes for white skin as Europeans somehow they have to be related

Americans have a different aproach in clasifying the people. They use the term Caucassian. So, according to their classification all Europeans are caucassian. The term white is a little more complicated. A person of Southern Europe is clearly caucassian in structure, but not neccesary white. You can't call all europeans white, just bcause they live in Europe.

Fire Haired
04-07-13, 22:06
Americans have a different aproach in clasifying the people. They use the term Caucassian. So, according to their classification all Europeans are caucassian. The term white is a little more complicated. A person of Southern Europe is clearly caucassian in structure, but not neccesary white. You can't call all europeans white, just bcause they live in Europe.

okay i get sick of dumb stereotypes that say spainish are not white i mean come on they are white sure sometime south Europeans have darkesh skin but that is because they have alot of mid eastern and north african blood which more northern Europeans do not orignalley all Europeans had white skin about 10,000ybp and if u took all of the non european blood out of south europe they would also have all white skin calling a European a white person is a great way to define him because europeans are white i have researched what genes create white skin in Europeans and i figured out the genes they have discovered so far that help create pale skin in Europeans are also found in mid eastern and north africans at almost the same rate and some north Africans and mid easterns have white skin but people in the caucus mountains how have almost no European blood for some reason are almost completely white like Europeans so i though maybe that is because they are very related to Europeans

nordicwarrior
04-07-13, 22:10
Regarding my earlier comment, human beings are responsible for the interpretation of these autosomal results. We all have our own bias, including those who are reading the results. Don't let someone distort your reality because they are wearing a lab coat.

Keegah
04-07-13, 22:15
Americans have a different aproach in clasifying the people. They use the term Caucassian. So, according to their classification all Europeans are caucassian. The term white is a little more complicated. A person of Southern Europe is clearly caucassian in structure, but not neccesary white. You can't call all europeans white, just bcause they live in Europe.

I'm not getting involved in this asinine discussion. I only ask this. Don't identify Americans with this Fire Haired guy. If non-Americans want an idea of what the modern American scholar is like, look to Sparkey. He is a good example.

Fire Haired
04-07-13, 22:25
Regarding my earlier comment, human beings are responsible for the interpretation of these autosomal results. We all have our own bias, including those who are reading the results. Don't let someone distort your reality because they are wearing a lab coat.

i totalley agree i am just thinking that this is possibly and the people in the lad coats are making accurate results it is a fact caucus people have more of the what they call west asian in gobe13 austomnal dna tests and that is significant i know these tests are not perfect but u have to show how they are not perfect and in what way before u throw away all of it

Fire Haired
04-07-13, 22:33
I'm not getting involved in this asinine discussion. I only ask this. Don't identify Americans with this Fire Haired guy. If non-Americans want an idea of what the modern American scholar is like, look to Sparkey. He is a good example.

what do i do that makes u think i don't represent modern Americans. Because i am pretty sure it is common sense that Europeans are white and i am not just ignorantly opening my mouth about this. i have studied the genes for pale skin in Europeans and it is a fact Europeans are naturally always white. The few exception is southern Europe are from mid eastern and north African inter marriage. i don't see how i am wrong with that point and i would love to see ur arguments against it if u disagree.

Knovas
04-07-13, 23:08
When you are not wrong, lying (because you do), or simply naively misinterpreting...that only accounts for 1% of your whole speech. Well, more or less, I certainly don't have the same precision as your "Y DNA, mtDNA, Hair color, and Eye color in ethnic groups of pre Indo European Europe" thread.

By the way, your avatar has a very close relative:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsbdvjDx5P1qcju3no7_500.jpg

BROTHERS!

Fire Haired
04-07-13, 23:29
When you are not wrong, lying (because you do), or simply naively misinterpreting...that only accounts for 1% of your whole speech. Well, more or less, I certainly don't have the same precision as your "Y DNA, mtDNA, Hair color, and Eye color in ethnic groups of pre Indo European Europe" thread.

By the way, your avatar has a very close relative:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsbdvjDx5P1qcju3no7_500.jpg

BROTHERS!

I know i make big theories and come to big conclusions and twist facts sometimes. But not as badly as u say all i a do is try to figure out stuff about DNA that happened thousends of years ago and honestly i think i am pretty good at it. The theories i come up with catulley do have good evidence. It is true people in teh caucus moauntins are plae skinned liek europeans with the same pale skin genes and they dont have a significant amount of european blood in austomnal DNA, Y DNA , and mtDNA haplogroups, and that there is a good chance the founding Y DNA haplogroups of Europeans which is I M170 may have originated around the caucus mountains, and that west Asian globe13 austomnal DNA is centered around the caucus mounatins and other paler skinned people and west Asian is the brother to the original european austomnal group north european

to me that argument sound pretty sound i am not saying it is a fact that people in the caucus are Europeans long lost brothers but their definaly is evidence for it i really dont see how i twisted the truth or lies hear if i have please tell me. I also dont think i lied or twisted the truth about my Y DNA, hair color, and eye color of pre indo european europe what i did is i took all of the pre Indo European Y DNA in European countries took the averages and that is what i got and i think the 31 Y DNA samples we have of neolithic western Europe back me up i know some of it is wrong but i admitted it was just a theory i don't see how i was twisting the truth at all

all u are doing is insulting me and saying i lie but u dont give any evidence because u have none and trust me the more we find ancient dna and hair color eye color stuff u will realize i was right then maybe u will trust my opinon

silkyslovanbojkovsky
21-08-13, 19:04
okay i get sick of dumb stereotypes that say spainish are not white i mean come on they are white sure sometime south Europeans have darkesh skin but that is because they have alot of mid eastern and north african blood which more northern Europeans do not orignalley all Europeans had white skin about 10,000ybp and if u took all of the non european blood out of south europe they would also have all white skin calling a European a white person is a great way to define him because europeans are white i have researched what genes create white skin in Europeans and i figured out the genes they have discovered so far that help create pale skin in Europeans are also found in mid eastern and north africans at almost the same rate and some north Africans and mid easterns have white skin but people in the caucus mountains how have almost no European blood for some reason are almost completely white like Europeans so i though maybe that is because they are very related to Europeans

Cro-magnons were certainly darker people more like middle easterners. Just because someone is darker in southern Europe does not mean at all that he has at least recent blood from north Africa and the middle east.

Ike
21-08-13, 21:56
I have always assumed that Ethnic groups in and around the Caucus mountains like Georgainas and Armenians where white and that they lived in eastern Europe and where some how related to Russians. But in DNA they have almost no European blood even though they look so European. IN austomnal DNA which basically tells ur full ancestry the original European group most tests call it north European because it is most popular in northern Europe. In globe13 austomnal DNA Georgains have 57.3% west Asian, 25.3% med, 13.2% southwest Asian, and only 2,9% north European.

But it seems that Georgians have very very very little European blood. Even though they look so European. I don't think u can say that they get these looks from inter marriage with Europeans because the there is no significant amount of European blood in their DNA. in globe13 the austomnal DNA group west asian is centered in the Caucus mountains. West Asian is the brother to the original European group north European. This could mean people in the caucus mountains are just very close relatives to Europeans.



Expensive science test say that Georgians are 57 % West Asian, than you say that West Asian DNA group is centered in Caucasus. Since we know from the maps that Georgia is in the Caucasus area, that's a lot of money to find out that someone is themselves. We're entering a closed loop. Are there any better definitions of being white, europian, caucasian....


it is a fact all europeans are white the few non white europeans in far southern Europe are because of mid eastern and north African inter marraige i get sick of it when people try to stay away from skin color when it come to race that is actulley one of the best ways to define people groups and white people is a great way to define Europeans and since people in the caucus who have almost no European blood have white skin and the same genes for white skin as Europeans somehow they have to be related

What if certain Hg's are more prone to pigmentation loss due to the high altitude/latitude, insolation, etc. Maybe Georgians aren't white, but they just look white. Maybe they'd be 3x more black if they lived just 1000 km more to the south. There may be a certain autosomal DNA sequence responsible for this regardless of the Hg.

Noman
21-08-13, 22:54
If you ask them, they are europeans. They are white as evidenced by the middle pics, but washed out by milennia of kebab 1300 years of arabs.

The same goes for persia. Go watch the movie Argo. They picked every single actor to look exactly like the real person. Note how all the bad guys are crook-nosed arabs, recent invaders and the heroine who doesn't tell on the captives and the air traffic controllers who represent the real ethnic persians look very european.

It's funny to me that they call it a "west asian component". This is because of lack of reference populations. But it gives an account of how much like their old selves they are, they have been about 50% washed away as compared to whenever they did contribute their dna to europe (which also largely has this "west asian" component).

Don't let them bring you down fire hair, everyone from outside western civilization is crazily xenophobic and nationalistic and simply lies about everything to rewrite history to make their mudhole look like it's the center of civilization.

Everyone in europe proper is an argumentative, anal retentive know-it-all character with some bone to pick about their neighbors due to a slightly different skull shape or some imagined slight 600 years ago. Also big defenders of orthodoxy, the reason americans left.

Noman
21-08-13, 23:02
I'm not getting involved in this asinine discussion. I only ask this. Don't identify Americans with this Fire Haired guy. If non-Americans want an idea of what the modern American scholar is like, look to Sparkey. He is a good example.

Now there's a laugh. So being a typical aspie know-it-all pedant is now scholarship? Maybe I am crazy but I think some logic and ability to put things in context is a help here too.

ebAmerican
22-08-13, 00:30
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLC24A5

SLC24A5 thought to be responsible for 30-40% difference in skin color compared to Africans. This mutation is specific to Europeans only. It shows the "single largest degree of selection in human populations of European ancestry." If you look at the Allele frequency map of Europe, the Middle East, Iran, West Asia, and Western Russia have high frequency of this gene. North Africa and South West Asia have a good piece of the pie as well. White is simply non-African, non-Asian, non-Oceania, and non-American Indian. Everybody else could be placed into the European white category. Italians have the same white gene frequency as Adyge and probably the Caucus. Asians show there own specific white mutation.

Nobody1
22-08-13, 00:57
Looks solid;


But whatever happened to the people from Orkney ?
http://imageshack.us/a/img706/5964/5x80.png

sparkey
22-08-13, 01:27
If you ask them, they are europeans.

I believe most will prefer "Caucasian."


They are white as evidenced by the middle pics, but washed out by milennia of kebab 1300 years of arabs.

The same goes for persia.

Georgians and Persians don't tend to cluster intermediate between Arabians and Europeans, as we would expect from populations that are essentially European with Arab influence. They form more of a triangle. See Dodecad (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TR8ox_MI6qI/AAAAAAAADIE/zEcyBpR0U8s/s1600/MDS1600.png). I mean, really, do you have better evidence than:


the movie Argo.

?


Now there's a laugh. So being a typical aspie know-it-all pedant is now scholarship? Maybe I am crazy but I think some logic and ability to put things in context is a help here too.

Thanks for the Internet diagnosis, can you write a prescription too?

Fire Haired
22-08-13, 02:40
ebAmerican i have looked to figure out exactley what they mean by light skin genes. It is not SLC24A5 it is then rs26654 then rs's alles A,A. Every human has SLC4A5 and under that rs26654 but what matters is their alles of rs26654. It is like that for all the genes they say that help cause pale skin in europeans. Also these genes are not specifically European. And defintley did not orignate in Europe and probably dont efffect skin color that much. a study done to prove Pale skin in Euro's and east asians is unrelated. They also tested north africans and mid easterns for these genes. They found the alles A,A in SLc4A5 rs26654 are just about as popular in north africans and mid easterns as they are in Europeans. But pretty much no one else in the world has them. Same witha ll the genes they say that cause pale skin in Europeans. This is not a surprise because since the 1800's Scientists have said Europeans,m north africans, and mid easterns form the Caucasian family and are very related. Aust DNA which tells full ancestry has proven this. Map of SLC4A5 rs166554 A,AIt may be confusing 30,20,18,15,17 that seem to go into China. Are Caucasin populations like Kalash, Pakistani, and Pashuten. It is pretty much the same story for all the genes that they say cause pale skin. Obviosuly they don’t cause for sure pale skin because mid eastern and northa fricans would be almost as white as Europeans. It is true that some are very pale skinned there is a lot of Muslims in my area most are from north india and Pkaistn. So they are dark because they have so much of the south aisan aust dna group in globe13 test which is non caucasin. But Iraq’s, Turkish, and Iranian people I have seen are uselly brownish like skinned but a lot of times they are just about as pale as Europeans. Same with North Africans so what I am trying to show in this thread. Is that west Asian the brother of Paloithic European North Euro is mainly around the Caucus mountains were Pale skin seems to be dominate. It is not extremely rare either to see non brown hair and eye colors. So possible they are very close relatives to Europeans.

Ike
22-08-13, 13:04
Could you please write properly? It is hard for me to understand your posts in all threads...

Sile
22-08-13, 13:51
Could you please write properly? It is hard for me to understand your posts in all threads...

It's the continental European system of no paragraphs