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TomAC
09-07-13, 04:31
E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f

TomAC
09-07-13, 04:33
Compress / remove spaces in the web address. (I haven't posted enough times to include a URL)

TomAC
09-07-13, 04:50
These maps came from the above article:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kirkkilclansna/E3bInGB1.png

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kirkkilclansna/E3bInGB2.png

TomAC
09-07-13, 04:54
Some really good articles are

http://www.genebase.com/learning/article/2 (a general article on the distribution of E1b1b1)

http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf (an article on Roman Soldiers in Great Britain)

tfsmith
16-07-13, 22:03
My:
14th Great Grandfather Thomas Smith b1500 d1541 Born and died in Welbourne, Lincolnshire, England surely E-V13 DNA
13th Great GF; William Smith b1518 in Humberstone, Leicestershire, England and died 31 JAN 1552 in Honington, Warwickshire.
12th GGF; Thomas Smith; Born 1543 in Hoby, Leicestershire; Died 9JUL1601 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
11th GGF; John of Nibley Smith born 1566 in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
10th GGF; William Smith; born 1600 in Humberstone, Lincolnshire, England; died 1639 in Hempstead, Linvingston, NEW YORK, USA
09th GGF: Abraham Smith; born 1625 Hempstead, Nassau, NEw YORK, USA died 1698 in Hempstead
08th GGF; Abraham Smith; born 1647, Hempstead died 1732 Cape May, NJ, USA all E-V13

tfsmith
16-07-13, 22:14
I have a DNA match (E-V13) with a cousin. Our common ancestor is my 05th GGF Timothy Smith; revolutionary war soldier;
Born 25 JAN 1747 in Monmouth, New Jersey, USA; Died 3 APR 1822 in Greene, Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA
Paper and DNA match each other.

sparkey
16-07-13, 23:51
My:
14th Great Grandfather Thomas Smith b1500 d1541 Born and died in Welbourne, Lincolnshire, England surely E-V13 DNA
13th Great GF; William Smith b1518 in Humberstone, Leicestershire, England and died 31 JAN 1552 in Honington, Warwickshire.
12th GGF; Thomas Smith; Born 1543 in Hoby, Leicestershire; Died 9JUL1601 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
11th GGF; John of Nibley Smith born 1566 in Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
10th GGF; William Smith; born 1600 in Humberstone, Lincolnshire, England; died 1639 in Hempstead, Linvingston, NEW YORK, USA

Were your ancestors showmen or gypsies or something? Because they sure did move around a lot (https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Welbourne,+Lincolnshire&daddr=Humberstone,+Leicestershire+to:Honington,+Wa rwickshire+to:Oxford,+Oxfordshire+to:Gloucester,+G loucestershire+to:Humberstone,+Lincolnshire&hl=en&ll=52.636397,-0.065918&spn=3.860585,9.931641&sll=52.870736,-0.832344&sspn=0.479952,1.241455&geocode=FfHdKQMdBXn3_ylFuwPcpUd4SDFaxLafAfZPXg%3BF XFPIwMd6Ivv_ylTzRxMz2N3SDENXVedVN7rcQ%3BFaOmGgMdqm vn_yk77gqKktRwSDGzhzEPyTdxpA%3BFVWsFQMdAs_s_ymvH8S tgDNxSDECdFTLqNsgyA%3BFbViFwMdNNnd_ynP8uv2-_1wSDHPGeghlptw7A%3BFQ7WMAMdcpv__ylxeHVKkIJ4SDHffF fZam4USw&mra=ls&t=m&z=7).

My guess: these are several different Smith families than your ancestors, meaning Thomas Smith of Welbourne, Lincolnshire is far from being "surely E-V13."

adamo
17-07-13, 00:00
well will u look at that...what a rarity, an englishman by the name of Smith positive for E3b of the balkan E-V13 variety.....you represent trace frequencies of english men, like less than 1-3%. your paternal ancestor migrated long ago from egypt (E3b is very high in non-negroid NORTH-africans such as libyans,algerians, tunisians etc.) this only makes sense (him coming from egypt) because all E-V13's are also E-M78 positive (east north african branch libya/egypt) he arrived near greece/albania where his E-V13 mutation took place. from there, he probably arrived to southern italy riding a wave of greek colonizers to southern italy. he must have been a roman soldier stationed in britain during roman attempts to dominate england, after many centuries, he somehow ended up migrating to colonial america

adamo
17-07-13, 00:01
this is your most probable route to where you are today.

kamani
17-07-13, 01:41
I have a DNA match (E-V13) with a cousin. Our common ancestor is my 05th GGF Timothy Smith; revolutionary war soldier;
Born 25 JAN 1747 in Monmouth, New Jersey, USA; Died 3 APR 1822 in Greene, Greene County, Pennsylvania, USA
Paper and DNA match each other.

It could be Spanish or French from the neolithic too, but most probably is a Roman soldier of Illyrian origin. If that's the case he already was 1/2 Celtic genetically when he got to England. Congrats.

MOESAN
21-07-13, 00:15
I don' t exclude roman soldiers, or true Latines, or mercenaries from Balkans and surroundings working for Rome - but if Y-E1b-V13, don't forget it 's almost sure the danubian agricultural culture had a lot of EV13 bearers along the well known Y-G2... and they move NW

MOESAN
21-07-13, 00:17
they moved northwards and northwestwards along Danau river to Poland, Germany, Austria, N-E-France etc... during neolithic colonization

zanipolo
21-07-13, 01:57
I don' t exclude roman soldiers, or true Latines, or mercenaries from Balkans and surroundings working for Rome - but if Y-E1b-V13, don't forget it 's almost sure the danubian agricultural culture had a lot of EV13 bearers along the well known Y-G2... and they move NW

Reading about roman soldiers from the balkan areas in britian. there is a clear distinction, that from wales across middle England to the north sea is the main E-v13 group . In southern England seems to be G2a group

I wonder if the E was from Thracian roman soldiers and G from alpine roman soldiers. The romans classified the Thracians as better troops than the alpine troops and the illyrians as troops where untrustworthy .

MOESAN
21-07-13, 20:35
the door is still open - very hard to agree or disagree for now (in my mind at least)
E-V13 Thracians? maybe, it is sure there were Thracians - but are we sure Thracians were E-V13 dominent?
I had better seen a lot of Y-J2 among them + other I-E or supposed I-E and neolithical Y-HGs - but it depends of the osmose of I-E Thracians with local people in East Balkans - a bet of mine: Y-E1b-V13 bearers were rather in central Balkans around the main rivers net, before being involved in Y-G2 colonization of danubian Europe: there they were half amalgamed hald pushed outwards by newcomers at metal ages - I say: a bet!

TomAC
23-07-13, 02:39
Just letting you know we are starting a new DNA project dedicated to Haplotype(s) E1b / E3b /E-M35 and E-V13 in Scotland.

Come on over and join us at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/E1b-E3b-E-M35-In-Scotland/


Tom Caulley
Project Admin.

RHAS
24-08-13, 16:26
E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f

"It is important to note that at least four additional YDNA markers may have arrived with the Romans. What have been described as the Balkan group (E-V13), the Ancient Caucasians (G-S314), the Herdsman-Farmers (J-M172 – and a sub-group of this, M67, looks particularly Italian) and the Anatolian marker (R1b-M269*), when taken together, potentially add another 2.3 million Englishmen and Welshmen who could trace their fatherlines to the veterans of the II Augusta, the IX Hispana, the XIV Gemina, the XX Valeria Victrix and the other Italians who crossed to Britain in their wake."
BritainsDNA Press Releases - BritainsDNA finds the Lost Legions.
http://www.britainsdna.com/about/press-releases (http://www.britainsdna.com/about/press-releases)

MOESAN
25-08-13, 17:12
the problem is that, at present time, among the bearers of these HGs we cannot separate the roman or romanized soldiers from the other potential bearers (first neolithical peasants or breeders, 'long barrows' people, Bel Beakers, frenchmen at Middle Ages a.s.o. ... maybe I forget someones)

sheppardl
09-07-15, 12:02
E1b1b1 also known as E3b / E-M35 and E-V13 is rare in Great Britain. So, how many of you are from this haplogroup AND can trace your ancestors to the UK? Where did they live? What was their surname? I've read where it is believed that this haplogroup was introduced into Great Britain by Roman soldiers from the Balkans / Thrace who were stationed there in the 1st century. Some apparently completed their service and remained in the UK.

A good article is by Steven C. Bird at w w w . j o g g . i n f o / 3 2 / b i r d . p d f

I am E-M215 which was e1b1b1 but I think has been refined.I have my Dads family tree back to about 1700 and they are all 'Sheppards' I want to think we are descended from Roman soldiers, but could it be possible we are from even earlier, the bronze age? when metal workers travelled to the uk from the med?

Maleth
10-07-15, 18:49
I am E-M215 which was e1b1b1 but I think has been refined.

I have my Dads family tree back to about 1700 and they are all 'Sheppards' I want to think we are descended from Roman soldiers, but could it be possible we are from even earlier, the bronze age? when metal workers travelled to the uk from the med?

We know that E-V13 has been around in europe since the Neolithic so all is possible. Although there might be some truth in the Roman troops theory, my opinion is that it cannot be the only source, since Scandinavia has similar low percentages of E-V13 similar to the UK, in areas that were never occupied by Roman troops. So earlier entries are very probable considering the age of E-V13 on the continent.

Some Spencers (some were also Sheppards) and Ferguson are also in this group. I have 1 genetic distance with Wils, Willis and Wilson from Cornwal, Scotland (border with England) and Cumbria.

BackToTheForests
28-06-17, 01:12
I am very late to this thread but would like to add some data if it can help (any opinions/suggestions appreciated):
Sanders/Saunders family
Have been in Warwickshire (Coventry area) since early 1500's moving to Staffordshire approximately mid 1800's, I do not know if they are still there because my great grandfather came to the U.S.A. in 1893.

BackToTheForests
09-07-17, 19:01
An amendment to my last post:
It looks like my sub-clade is E-M35.2 and it doesn't look like this part of my family left the West Midlands. I have a few clues pointing towards Surrey at the very beginning of the 1500's (when the family all but drops off the map in Warwickshire) but I don't see the evidence to take it further, there must have been quite a few people with that surname.

Jesse Elliott
15-08-17, 02:34
Already there!

Jesse Elliott
15-08-17, 02:43
My earliest ancester is an Elliott. Born in new hampshire 1793. Im linked to the UK with some Coles, Rumleys, & Rumseys, as well as Romerils from the Channel islands.( romeril is among many close names said to be given to people from Rome. Rumsey, Rumley, & Ramsey are said to be anglesised forms of Romeril.i am waiting for a link to an Elliott in the UK with E1b1b1.

OkTex
17-08-17, 14:25
Glad this thread was started...My Shirley ancestors were from Oxfordshire England area...rare haplo e-m134- (m34-). My paternal grandmother carried these genes...dark eyes, dark complexion, black hair until the day she died at age 94...she is a source of my Anatolia, No. Italy, Tuscan-like Admixtures.

Jesse Elliott
05-11-17, 21:00
Since my last post i have found i am m-81/M-183, negative for V-13. This is even more rare in Britain. My automosal says im 86% british isles with 96% europe. 2% north african which points to source of the M-183. Berber Roman troops or immigration across the straits?

Angela
05-11-17, 21:38
Since my last post i have found i am m-81/M-183, negative for V-13. This is even more rare in Britain. My automosal says im 86% british isles with 96% europe. 2% north african which points to source of the M-183. Berber Roman troops or immigration across the straits?

If you still have 2% North African it might be more recent, although sometimes a certain sequence proves resistant to recombination. If it is that old, Berber troops are certainly one possibility.

TheNumerus Maurorum Aurelianorum, were stationed along the wall, for example.


http://roman-britain.co.uk/places/aballava.htm

There may have been others.

joelhgrant
08-12-17, 21:54
I am a descendant of Andrew Warner from Great Waltham Essex England who immigrated to Massachusetts. I changed my name to Grant. My yDNA is E-M5021 a clad of E-M35. Any Warner’s out there with E-M5021?

Oliver.s
09-01-18, 18:57
Hey all.

I'm E1b1b1a3b L-17 and come from england. I thought this was a rare haplogroup for Britain. Some people say it's a Jewish ancestry but I think mine is not. I'm sure it was brought here by the Romans and also I read that it has communities more common in the balkans.

23andme told me I was E-m5021 which is just another name for the same haplogroup. But they don't tell you that when you're told the result.

I've actually seen guys on the forums there worried they may be adopted because they and their father had different haplogroup results. But these two are the same. But I only found this out recently and I'm relieved that it was.

I've also heard this haplogroup is you d sometimes in the Ukraine as well.

Whatcom2238
11-01-18, 06:45
My last name is Beesley. I'm from Canada. I just received my Y-DNA analysis from Living DNA. I'm a E-V13 too. I'm a newbie to ancestry genetic testing, but I've also read Bird about the theory of the source of Balkan E-V13 in Britain. It's interesting that the population distribution information I got from my test doesn't even list Britain in the list of populations with E-V13. I'm a little confused because I've read in other places that E-V13 is present in about 5% of British men. Can anyone help me with this apparent discrepancy? Just how rare is E-V13 in Britain? And if so, is it significant in any way? Thanks for any assistance.

Johane Derite
15-01-18, 19:31
This may interest british people that are EV13. From the bosnian dna project:

http://bosnjackidnk.com/e-z16988-klimente/

Subclade E-Z16988 which seems to be the main EV13 of the Albanian Kelmendi tribe also has British people under the name "Smith" showing up.

Here is a google translated excerpt from the article:

"Interestingly, the Kliment genetically closer Z16988 to the Germans and the British, than to neighboring Bjelopavici and other Balkan nations. It is most likely that one of the branches of the Illyrian climatic ancestors went to live in the territory of Germany. Most of the E-Z16988 Germans from the southwest of Germany and the British with this haplogroup are being called Smith."

Dibran
15-01-18, 19:34
This may interest british people that are EV13. From the bosnian dna project:

http://bosnjackidnk.com/e-z16988-klimente/

Subclade E-Z16988 which seems to be the main EV13 of the Albanian Kelmendi tribe also has British people under the name "Smith" showing up.

Here is a google translated excerpt from the article:

"Interestingly, the Kliment genetically closer Z16988 to the Germans and the British, than to neighboring Bjelopavici and other Balkan nations. It is most likely that one of the branches of the Illyrian climatic ancestors went to live in the territory of Germany. Most of the E-Z16988 Germans from the southwest of Germany and the British with this haplogroup are being called Smith."

So would it mean that even though its Illyrian it was carried to the Balkans by Germans? Or rather, in the British persons case, would it be from Roman campaigns in the British Isles?

Johane Derite
15-01-18, 19:45
So would it mean that even though its Illyrian it was carried to the Balkans by Germans? Or rather, in the British persons case, would it be from Roman campaigns in the British Isles?

I'm not sure since i dont know how accurate their study is, nor how accurate the google translate is. If @Trojet is around maybe he can help explain this

Leo Achaicus
11-05-18, 01:28
Hey all.

I'm E1b1b1a3b L-17 and come from england. I thought this was a rare haplogroup for Britain. Some people say it's a Jewish ancestry but I think mine is not. I'm sure it was brought here by the Romans and also I read that it has communities more common in the balkans.

23andme told me I was E-m5021 which is just another name for the same haplogroup. But they don't tell you that when you're told the result.

I've actually seen guys on the forums there worried they may be adopted because they and their father had different haplogroup results. But these two are the same. But I only found this out recently and I'm relieved that it was.

I've also heard this haplogroup is you d sometimes in the Ukraine as well.

My paternal haplogroup is E-M5021 too.

My ancestry breakup is:

Balkan - Greece: 86.2%
Italian: 9.4%
Broadly Southern European: 3.6%
West Asian & North African: 0.6%
Unassigned: 0.2%

My ancestry is wholly from the Peloponnesus regions of Arcadia, Achaea and Elis in S Greece. I also have a single Italian ancestor born between 1760 and 1850.

I have been looking for info on E-M5021 but I can't find anything at all. All I know is it's somehow connected to E1b1b.

Anyone have any clue?

Margo
24-05-18, 23:22
Hi, everyone.

I ran my Dad's raw DNA file from AncestryDNA through Morley's Y-DNA programme. The result I received was: E1b1b1b1a2-2. I'm really intrigued by this as while we're not from the UK, we're from Ireland. It seems to be a very uncommon haplogroup here.

My question is: can I trust this result? And I wonder whether many others from Ireland had similar results?

aussienoel
29-10-18, 06:52
Newbie here. I recently had my Y-DNA tested by FamilyTreeDNA, 67 markers, with the result being E-M35 and no matches except just 2 at the 12-marker level.
I was born in Essex, England, and my earliest-known paternal line ancestor was John Clark (c. 1769-1851), a gardener of Springfield, Essex, England. Unfortunately I have no information about John except that he was born in Essex but not in Springfield (he fell short of the 1851 census by just a couple of months).
I must admit that I'm puzzled by the absence of matches, and I don't really understand where I might go from here.
I will add that my FamilyTreeDNA autosomal "Family Finder" results are meaningless to me, whereas those I obtained from Ancestry are much more meaningful and confirm a number of branches of my family tree obtained via traditional genealogical methods (censuses, certificates, etc.)
I am an experienced family historian (since 1996) but a complete novice with DNA.
Would welcome any comments.

Ownstyler
29-10-18, 07:04
Hi aussienoel! Could you please share your STR marker values? That way we could check your deeper subclade classification and give you a better idea of your paternal ancestry.

An example:
12 24 14 10 16-18... etc.

aussienoel
29-10-18, 07:35
Certainly can. I don't really understand why FamilyTreeDNA doesn't give the subclade - seems to me that's what I've paid for... but I can't find it yet.
Here we go (in order as listed to me):
DYS393: 11
DYS390: 25
DYS19: 13
DYS391: 10
DYS385: 16-18
DYS426: 11
DYS388: 12
DYS439: 12
DYS389-I: 13
DYS392: 11
DYS389-II: 30
DYS458: 15
DYS459: 9-9-9
DYS455: 11
DYS454: 11
DYS447: 26
DYS437: 14
DYS448: 20
DYS449: 34
DYS464: 14-14-15-17-17-18
DYS460: 9
GATA-H4: 11
YCAII: 19-21
DYS456: 17
DYS607: 12
DYS576: 15
DYS570: 19
CDY:30-30-34
DYS442: 12
DYS438: 10
DYS531: 10
DYS578: 8
DYF395S1: 15-15
DYS590: 8
DYS537: 11
DYS641: 10
DYS472: 8
DYF406S1: 12
DYS511: 10
DYS425: 0
DYS413: 23-24
DYS557: 17
DYS594: 11
DYS436: 12
DYS490: 12
DYS534: 18
DYS450: 7
DYS444: 12
DYS481: 22
DYS520: 18
DYS446: 12
DYS617: 14
DYS568: 11
DYS487: 15
DYS572: 11
DYS640: 11
DYS492: 11
DYS565: 11

Ownstyler
29-10-18, 09:28
Thank you! Well the safest way to determine your subclade is through SNP testing and since you did a STR test FTDNA doesn't go beyond E-M35. The STR values can be compared to others however, so results with common values can have their subclades determined with a fair amount of certainty. I would recommend that you join an FTDNA project as project administrators are your best bet for this. One such project is this: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/e-v13/about/background.


I'm not an expert on haplogroup E but I'll try to be helpful. Some of your values are quite uncommon, especially DYS393=11, but you should be E1b-V13. That means your paternal ancestor was likely either in Central or in Southeastern Europe during the Bronze Age. The migration to England could have happened any time between then and now, but E1b-V13 movements to the UK have mostly been associated with the Roman period, especially Balkan Legionaries guarding the borders of the Empire. Here's some more info on that: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml. Because of those uncommon values, it is difficult to classify you in a deeper subclade, which could have revealed connections more recent than the Roman Empire. If I had to guess it would be either L17 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L17/) or Z17107 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z17107/), but it's a pretty wild guess right now. Again, I suggest you speak to a project administrator on FTDNA, or if one happens to read this here, maybe they can offer more info.

Keep in mind that this is just only the ancestry of your paternal line, so genealogical relations with people who don't share that same ancestor will go unnoticed.

aussienoel
29-10-18, 12:07
Perhaps you can answer my question. FTDNA recommends that I test for two SNPs - Y2491 and L117. Does that seem to be appropriate?

I find the FTDNA website very clumsy to navigate at this stage.

Tutkun Arnaut
29-10-18, 12:54
My last name is Beesley. I'm from Canada. I just received my Y-DNA analysis from Living DNA. I'm a E-V13 too. I'm a newbie to ancestry genetic testing, but I've also read Bird about the theory of the source of Balkan E-V13 in Britain. It's interesting that the population distribution information I got from my test doesn't even list Britain in the list of populations with E-V13. I'm a little confused because I've read in other places that E-V13 is present in about 5% of British men. Can anyone help me with this apparent discrepancy? Just how rare is E-V13 in Britain? And if so, is it significant in any way? Thanks for any assistance.

its not true E v13 in Britain is entirely Ballkanic. It appears E v13 is an indoeuropean haplogroup. It means this people mixed in Anatolia before moving to Britaian. So check the E-v13 tree and see if yours is Ballkanic

Ownstyler
29-10-18, 21:53
Perhaps you can answer my question. FTDNA recommends that I test for two SNPs - Y2491 and L117. Does that seem to be appropriate?

I find the FTDNA website very clumsy to navigate at this stage.


In my opinion, FTDNA works best with STR tests, which you did, and BigY, which helps with both STR and SNP, especially after you upload it to YFull. I'd say if you want to stick with FTDNA, wait for their discount period and order a BigY test.

If you want to do SNP tests, I would recommend YSEQ. If you want to be sure of being E1b-V13, you could do a $18 test such as this one: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=4418, and if that comes out positive, you can try the E1b-V13 panel which tests for all SNPs listed here: https://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=2486.

But again, try to talk to an E haplogroup project admin as they are more knowledgeable on this.

Juttingjute
09-12-18, 06:56
Hello all,

I am a newbie here. My fathers family is from Donegal, Ireland, and I believe we are V-13. Our surname is considered the most common Irish name in Ireland. Most of my Irish friends are R1b, so it was interesting we came up with this Haplogroup or Haplotype.

jeuanimo
09-02-19, 02:09
All of Haplogroup E is Black different types of Black but still Black non-theless. If a white person or a Arab person carriers any Branch of Haplogroup E it just means that they have a African male ancestor, it doesn't mean that branch turned non-black unless it's a first generation Albino is the only exception. Eurocentrist like to make the basseless claim that E-M215 is a white haplogroup because they claim they found some whites and Arabs who belong to Branches of E-M215 even though the majority of E-M215+ branches are found among most So-called horn Africans and North Africans but these people are not white. We may have long noses and long faces still doesn't make us white or So-Called caucasian= an all enclusive version of white. If you look up the haplogroup E1b1a project at ftdna you will find many non-Black people belong to the many Branches of E1b1a. E1b1a is considered a So-called sub-saharan Haplogroup by racist eurocentrist even though it's found in Europe and West Asia just like it's little brother E1b1b. According to Eurocentrist E1b1b is found in 25% in Europe mostly in South Europe across the Great sea from Africa. They say E-V13 is the highest branch of E in Europe and it's mostly found in Albania then the Balkans. What that means is Albanians that belong to E-V13 are descendents of African males and Sub-Alpine european women. Just like other so-called Non-Blacks that belong to any Branch of Haplogroup E are decedants of African males.
To go even further Y DNA Haplogroups A and B are also clearly African in origin but some white Europeans and Orange Arabs carry Different Branches of Haplogroup A and B. Haplogroup A is Most commonly found Among Khoisan people of Southern Africa followed by Ethiopian Jews and So-Called Nilotic people in Sudan, Egypt, Chad, Kenya, Ethiopia and Tanzania also in Cameroon. It is found in low frequencies in Europe but in europe it is mostly found in British men carrying the surname Revis. There are many theories of how these British men carry haplogroup A the most common theory among racist is that these men are descendents of African slaves, However, the mostly likely cause is that they got it from the African Moors who migrated from Spain to the uk, these Moors married and had kids with the white British women, then there mixed Orange/Yellow Kids grew up and eventually when most of the Moors left the uk some stayed and continued to marry and have kids with indigenous white men and women and these mixed orange/yellow kids descendants started to turn white again over time, still keeping the Y DNA African Chromasomes.
According to poplular belief the Moors belong to Y DNA haplogroup E1b1b only. But new non-biased science proves that E1b1b is only one of major Haplogroups found among ancient Moors DNA. According to Dr. Goldburg and his team at Albert Einstein Collage Tel Aviv, the most common Haplogroups of the Moors by percentage is: E1b1b 24%, E1b1a 20% , E1a1 16% DE 8% , A 4%, B1b1a 3%, E2b1b1 10%, J1 15%.

Yanis
09-02-19, 16:02
There are studies that have shown that there have been multiple migrations of E in Europe, the oldest of which was detected 4000 years ago, with the megalithic culture of the Atlantic. Then at the time of the Carthaginians there were exchanges of populations between the Iberian Peninsulas, Sardinia and North Africa, they recruited men to fight and to cultivate land. The Romans contributed enormously to the dispersal of haplogroup E throughout their empire, as mercenaries, traders or farmers. We neglect the Byzantines who also included in their Empire North Africa, then there was 800 years of Berber presence in the Iberian Peninsula which allowed exchanges with all the countries of Western Europe. The representations of the Berbers at all times of history show that they were white, they belong to the Mediterranean world, this people has always lived concentrated on the Mediterranean coast.

Ziriacen
05-03-19, 22:17
Congrats on your results! (I know its late lol)

I think you're most likely descended Roman-Berber troops stationed there.

Mark Polman
16-03-19, 16:54
I've got a cousin with whom I share a MRCA about 3200 ybp. His family lived in England and Ireland by the name of Sinnott, a noble family that arrived with the Norman conquerors in the 11th century. This is an example of a late entry of E-V13 on the British Isles, so they aren’t directly a descendant of Roman soldiers. Let's exclude that Sir Sinnott belonged to the aggressive Scandinavian elite and assume that he belonged to the French nobles. He might have had an ancestor who was a Roman soldier, since Greater Paris stayed Roman for a long time, but the Romans had been defeated earlier by the Francs under King Clovis. So the Sinnotts may have been Francs and have come from Northern France and Belgium. This also was under Roman rule? Yes, but they also resisted and revolted all the time (Caesar: Belgiums are the bravest of all) and the territory was soon occupied by allied Francs (but non-Romans) who came from the Northern side off the Rhine. This is where my family lived by the end of the Middle Ages as farmers that were feudally related to the whole bunch of local aristocracy that had strongholds on the eastside of the Rhine traditionally held by Teutonic Roman-eaters. I consider myself a cultivated man and would welcome a Roman, or even better Greek ancestor, but it just doesn’t feel like that. Actually, I don’t know any fancy genealogy of European gentry that relates itself to Romans unless they lived at least a three days’ travel away from the Rhine. Nonetheless, both Sinnott and I share a cousin in Tuscany with the same MRCA about 3200 ybp. So are we Romans after all, or is the Italian a captured Germanic or do the Irishman, Italian and Dutchman share a common Celtic ancestor that lived in the Hercynian Forest? Please advise.

Angela
16-03-19, 17:05
I've got a cousin with whom I share a MRCA about 3200 ybp. His family lived in England and Ireland by the name of Sinnott, a noble family that arrived with the Norman conquerors in the 11th century. This is an example of a late entry of E-V13 on the British Isles, so they aren’t directly a descendant of Roman soldiers. Let's exclude that Sir Sinnott belonged to the aggressive Scandinavian elite and assume that he belonged to the French nobles. He might have had an ancestor who was a Roman soldier, since Greater Paris stayed Roman for a long time, but the Romans had been defeated earlier by the Francs under King Clovis. So the Sinnotts may have been Francs and have come from Northern France and Belgium. This also was under Roman rule? Yes, but they also resisted and revolted all the time (Caesar: Belgiums are the bravest of all) and the territory was soon occupied by allied Francs (but non-Romans) who came from the Northern side off the Rhine. This is where my family lived by the end of the Middle Ages as farmers that were feudally related to the whole bunch of local aristocracy that had strongholds on the eastside of the Rhine traditionally held by Teutonic Roman-eaters. I consider myself a cultivated man and would welcome a Roman, or even better Greek ancestor, but it just doesn’t feel like that. Actually, I don’t know any fancy genealogy of European gentry that relates itself to Romans unless they lived at least a three days’ travel away from the Rhine. Nonetheless, both Sinnott and I share a cousin in Tuscany with the same MRCA about 3200 ybp. So are we Romans after all, or is the Italian a captured Germanic or do the Irishman, Italian and Dutchman share a common Celtic ancestor that lived in the Hercynian Forest? Please advise.

It's even more complicated than that. They are finding E-V13 in Visigothic settlements in Spain. E-V13 was probably all over the Balkans and the Carpathian mountains, and perhaps even in West Ukraine in the Bronze Age. It was probably picked up by the groups moving through. So, it may have spread via a Central European route as well as the southern route, probably with Greek colonization.

The only way it will possibly be disentangled is with very precise categorization into subclades, as is starting to be done with G2a.

Mark Polman
16-03-19, 20:40
I'm sure our E-V13 specialists are trying to sort out the lines. Is there something we could learn from the approach as is starting to be done with G2a?

Angela
16-03-19, 20:55
I'm sure our E-V13 specialists are trying to sort out the lines. Is there something we could learn from the approach as is starting to be done with G2a?

Well, in Italy, for example, they began with dating the specific clades and looking at the geographic distribution. (Boattini group)

There was a "northern" type that seemed to have come from Central Europe, and a "southern" type that appeared to have come from Greece (Crete as well) and/or Anatolia. That doesn't mean that E-V13 is not a Neolithic derived lineage, as Bicicleur explains in the Iberia thread. We can find the immediate precursors in Neolithic Croatia and Spain, associated with the Cardial culture complex. G2a is also Neolithic in Europe.

What seems to have happened is that in Central Europe they were perhaps picked up by Beaker like people and then filtered into various more modern "ethnic" groupings.

Hairarmy
13-08-19, 00:44
I tested E-V13 with 23&Me so I was directed to Family Tree DNA and did the Y-67 which stated I was E-M35. I can trace my Ancestors to 1410 England and stop there. I signed up for a couple of groups on FTDNA. I understand the general theory is my immediate Ancestors would then b descendants of the Roman Army, specifically Thracian's out of he Balkan's almost 2,000 years ago?

Johane Derite
13-08-19, 00:48
I tested E-V13 with 23&Me so I was directed to Family Tree DNA and did the Y-67 which stated I was E-M35. I can trace my Ancestors to 1410 England and stop there. I signed up for a couple of groups on FTDNA. I understand the general theory is my immediate Ancestors would then b descendants of the Roman Army, specifically Thracian's out of he Balkan's almost 2,000 years ago?

If you did Ftdna Y-67 you should know more than E-M35, of which EV13 is a clade of. You need to check which clade of EV13 before saying whether it would have been illyrian or whatever, etc.

bigsnake49
13-08-19, 01:37
If you did Ftdna Y-67 you should know more than E-M35, of which EV13 is a clade of. You need to check which clade of EV13 before saying whether it would have been illyrian or whatever, etc.
Or he is a basal EV-13.

Hairarmy
13-08-19, 05:08
I am new here and to the FT Y-67 test. I am not sure how to read it byt am told by an administrator that the V13 is a subclad of M35. I know the Surname is Goode and goes back to 1410 Southern England to a Sir William Goode in Whitby. I have read thru this thread and it makes sense that my line would have came to be with the Roman Army. what am I looking for???

Johane Derite
13-08-19, 05:37
I am new here and to the FT Y-67 test. I am not sure how to read it byt am told by an administrator that the V13 is a subclad of M35. I know the Surname is Goode and goes back to 1410 Southern England to a Sir William Goode in Whitby. I have read thru this thread and it makes sense that my line would have came to be with the Roman Army. what am I looking for???

In the EM35 project you are there under EV13 - Ungrouped. This means you share the same paternal ancestor with anybody else that is EV13 within the last ~4800 years but that they haven't been able to determine your sublcade as of yet.

There is the option of doing a Big Y test to find deeper resolution so that you can figure out with more precision what your clade is.

If its an older clade of EV13 it might not be Roman related but rather celtic. If it dates to Roman times then its probably with Romans.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/E1b-E3b-E-M35-In-Scotland?iframe=yresults

Hairarmy
13-08-19, 23:18
Thank you for your time and assistance I have tested on 3 sites and all are slightly different results but consistent with West Central Europe and British Isle and the Celtic connection is heavy as alot of my Ancesters can from there Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany, Netherlands to Switzerland on one leg. I did the GEDMatch and it pointed to the Balkans to the Middle East. the information is a bit much

Johane Derite
13-08-19, 23:33
Thank you for your time and assistance I have tested on 3 sites and all are slightly different results but consistent with West Central Europe and British Isle and the Celtic connection is heavy as alot of my Ancesters can from there Scotland, Ireland, England, Germany, Netherlands to Switzerland on one leg. I did the GEDMatch and it pointed to the Balkans to the Middle East. the information is a bit much


Its unlikely Gedmatch can pick up on something like that after 2000 years.

If you wish to know whether your EV13 is pre-roman celtic lineage or Illyrian/or Thracian roman lineage, you should contact the Ftdna adminstrator and ask which upgrade you would need on your Y-test. Then you would know within a more recent time frame who you share ancestor with. Best of luck.

mathewsalinas
20-08-19, 17:03
ahahah interesting however

mathewsalinas
20-08-19, 17:04
I have EV13

digital_noise
29-08-19, 19:00
If anyone is E-V13, please consider a Big Y from the start. I did things the hard/expensive way by doing a Y-111, then an E-V13 pack, then Big -Y 500 then finally the Y700 upgrade.

I know it is expensive, maybe wait for a sale or something. I would personally like to see more E-V13's tested. :)

mongrel
03-09-19, 16:58
I'm E-V13, am English born, can trace my male line back to a marriage in 1673 (but no prior birth record), ancestors have always lived in Derbyshire, and we have an Anglo Saxon/Scandinavian surname (Jepson/Jepsen).

My autosomal spread (courtesy LivingDNA) is as follows
Europe 100%:
Great Britain and Ireland 82.6%
Europe (North and West) 12.1%
Europe (South) 5.3%

...so to my mind, my ancestors migrated here from Germany/Denmark rather than Macedonia or Thrace making me likely a Celt (not quite far enough north to be a Brigantes) rather than a Roman Legionnaire - different sides of the war!

However, I do wonder if there is a possibility my x-grandfather arrived here in the relatively more recent past considering how the records lose all references to my surname, ok, that maybe due to lack of/destroyed records during the 1642-1651 Civil War but anybody now of any foreign fighters in the English Civil War for example.

digital_noise
11-09-19, 22:35
I'm E-V13, am English born, can trace my male line back to a marriage in 1673 (but no prior birth record), ancestors have always lived in Derbyshire, and we have an Anglo Saxon/Scandinavian surname (Jepson/Jepsen).

My autosomal spread (courtesy LivingDNA) is as follows
Europe 100%:
Great Britain and Ireland 82.6%
Europe (North and West) 12.1%
Europe (South) 5.3%

...so to my mind, my ancestors migrated here from Germany/Denmark rather than Macedonia or Thrace making me likely a Celt (not quite far enough north to be a Brigantes) rather than a Roman Legionnaire - different sides of the war!

However, I do wonder if there is a possibility my x-grandfather arrived here in the relatively more recent past considering how the records lose all references to my surname, ok, that maybe due to lack of/destroyed records during the 1642-1651 Civil War but anybody now of any foreign fighters in the English Civil War for example.

E-V13 formed about 8000 years ago, and TMRCA is about 4800 years ago so this is well before Germany or Denmark existed. its likely that your ancestor came through that area en-route to where you are now but its been pretty well established that the haplogroup is most likely from the Balkan area

Tutkun Arnaut
11-09-19, 23:19
I'm E-V13, am English born, can trace my male line back to a marriage in 1673 (but no prior birth record), ancestors have always lived in Derbyshire, and we have an Anglo Saxon/Scandinavian surname (Jepson/Jepsen).

My autosomal spread (courtesy LivingDNA) is as follows
Europe 100%:
Great Britain and Ireland 82.6%
Europe (North and West) 12.1%
Europe (South) 5.3%

...so to my mind, my ancestors migrated here from Germany/Denmark rather than Macedonia or Thrace making me likely a Celt (not quite far enough north to be a Brigantes) rather than a Roman Legionnaire - different sides of the war!

However, I do wonder if there is a possibility my x-grandfather arrived here in the relatively more recent past considering how the records lose all references to my surname, ok, that maybe due to lack of/destroyed records during the 1642-1651 Civil War but anybody now of any foreign fighters in the English Civil War for example.

Hi English MONGREL! If really interested where your ancestors might have originated you have to do get a more expanded clade analysis, not just E v13. (of course for some extra money)! Let say in my case after deep clade result I found out that members of my clade were in Düsseldorf Germany, Denmark, and even some in England. And out of 1000 strong Albanian sample only one was in Albania . So the conclusion was that my distant origin was from North, who knows in what circumstances they ended up in Balkans. If you do the same thing there is extensive deep clade data on line about EV13 to pinpoint your possible origin

Jhmurphy2001
03-10-19, 14:16
Interesting as I assume we have the same last name (most common in Ireland) and I come out as e-v13 per 23andme. Family traces back to Kildare in 1820.

Jhmurphy2001
03-10-19, 14:19
Hello all,

I am a newbie here. My fathers family is from Donegal, Ireland, and I believe we are V-13. Our surname is considered the most common Irish name in Ireland. Most of my Irish friends are R1b, so it was interesting we came up with this Haplogroup or Haplotype.
My post above was in response to this one.

TimC
07-10-19, 23:14
I'm trying to trace my wife's Smith ancestors. The earliest is Lewis Morrison Smith b. 1810 Missouri. From a descendant who took the FTDNA yDNA test, the haplotype is E-M35. The results are posted in the Smith DNA Project but there are no matches in spite of numerous E-35 individuals. I don't see your family so I'm hoping that you haven't submitted results to that project.
The markers are: 13 25 13 11 16-18 11 12 12 14 10 32 15 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 33 16-16-17-17 9 10 19-21 16 12 17 18 31-32 11 10
Are you a match? Here's hoping you are
Tim

Hairarmy
15-10-19, 20:07
I have recently discovered I am E-M35/E-V13. My great grandfather was Illegitimate ad his Biological family name is actually Goode. I have been able to rack I back to Southern England 1200. I am curious about the origins of E-V13 for. Of Course Goode is most likely an Anglicized name and who knows if I can trace that back further, especially since I am American.

Hairarmy
15-10-19, 20:09
Try getting in the E-M35 group there are bout 7k people in there.

Hairarmy
15-10-19, 20:12
[QUOTE=TimC;587257]I'm trying to trace my wife's Smith ancestors. The earliest is Lewis Morrison Smith b. 1810 Missouri. From a descendant who took the FTDNA yDNA test, the haplotype is E

Try joining Group E-M35 there are 7 people I that group, may have better luck finding matches

Hairarmy
04-12-19, 19:08
If you did Ftdna Y-67 you should know more than E-M35, of which EV13 is a clade of. You need to check which clade of EV13 before saying whether it would have been illyrian or whatever, etc.
I did the Big Y700 and am confirmed E-V13, CTS5856,BY3880,Z5018,S2979, BY6125 Terminal SNP in Southern England. My understanding is S2979 is considered modern Kosovo. I really don't have an Idea of how that translates to Illyrian, Thracian or any other Cultures 2000-4800 years ago. But it is interesting to note the timing seems to support the theory of Roman Movement into England