UOTE=Tone;412351]I wouldn't go as far to declare the Bell Beaker Culture was "conquered" by Germanic Italo Celts. That's just pure conjecture (which is okay for a forum discussion). The fact is that in Central Europe, The Bell Beaker Culture gave way to the Unetice Culture about 2300 BC. It's unclear what language the people of the Unetice Culture spoke. Their language could have been a forebearer to Italic/Celtic/Germanic but it's just conjecture. [/QUOTE]
Unetice culture had Torcs a celtic signature and tartens like Celts. They where without a doubt the ancestral culture to Celts well actulle they where Italo Celtic speakers. Yes according to what experts who have studied this since the 1800's is that Unetice comes from Bell Beaker but Unetice had Kurgens a Indo European burail they where Indo Europeans. Bell beaker did not Bell Beaker was defintley conquered by Germanic Italo Celts. The Celst as recent as 2,700-2,500ybp conquered Iberia and Italo Celtic R1b S116 is over 60% in Iberia the germanic italo Celts did the same to Bell Beaker. I explained that the Italo Celts where incredible (click
here to see) warriors and that they conquered western europe Maciamo the head of this web site says the same (click
here to see).
The most important Gods in
Indo European religion are very war like Gods like Thor and Indra.
rig veda is Indo iranien Indo European speakers admitted to conquering the indus valley. In the Irish
book of invasions they say their Celtic ancestors invaded and conquered Ireland. Archaeology shows Indo European culture taking over non Indo European cultures by force. When a people group is conquered the old y dna is replaced by the invading Y DNA because Y DNA is a paternal linage and men fight in wars. There is no arguing Bell Beaker was conquered by Germanic Italo Celts. That is why Indo European language spread they where not peace loving the Indo Europeans where conqueres their culture was a very warrior culture. That is why i give the period of 5,000-2,000ybp in Europe the name the Indo European warrior period Rome and the Greeks put a end to those cultures and before that their indo european cultures where changed by Mediterranean civilizations.
What is clear is that the R1B extracted at Kromsdorf was Bell Beaker and not Unetice. The fact is that the earliest R1B in Europe has cultural ties to Portugal via the Bell Beaker Culture. We'll see over the next decade with more sampling if there is a genetic connection to Portugal also.
Well we dont have Y DNA from Unetice. also it is clear that 31 y DNA samples from Neolithic and Chaloithic western Europe 26 had G2a, 4 had I2a1a, and one had E1b1b V13 non with R1b. R1b in Iberia is a Italo Celtic subclade that came just 2,700-2,500ybp there is no evidence of a ancestral subclade in Iberia of Germanic and Italo Celtic R1b.
We should except R1b to be in 4,600 year old central Germany Y DNA samples. That is exactly the place and time Germanic Italo Celts started to conquer. When we say Bell Beaker culture we are going off of what Archaeologist since the 1800's have said even though there where new Indo European culture that formed by conquering and mixing with Bell Beaker like Unetice.
There is no R1b connection to Iberia the oldest R1b period in western Europe is only 5,000-8,000 years old it comes from Indo European migrations. I dont undertand when people say R1b came to ireland from iberia do they forget tat r1b is very well spread out in formally Celtic territories. and that all of Iberia(except eastern Iberia) was Celtic speaking from 2,600-2,300ybp. and that they have a subclade of Italo Celtic R1b S116 and that Basque's ancestors the Aquitanian people where seen as Celts cultralley according to Caesar there is no doubt R1b in Iberia is from Celts.
You could be right. However the only samples from the steppe circa 3000 bc show only R1A. No R1B has been found.
wait so ur saying they have 5,000 year old R1a from the steppes i have not heard of that all i know is they have 6 y dna samples that are 6,000 and 5,000 years old from indo european yamna culture kurgens but have not realsed the results yet.
Correlation does not necessarily equal causation. Not meaning to derail this thread, but the simplest explanation for red hair is that it is very old and has been in Europe for a very long time.... probably as an indigenous trait. In very simple terms, R1B is ultimately from the sunny Middle-East (as recent as the Neolithic). The most logical place for an ancient, low sunlight trait like red hair to develop (over time) is a low sunlight place, like say, the fringes of Europe. R1B men "married" this trait when they invaded Europe. But that's just conjecture on my part.
i think there is defintley a correlation with red hair and r1b l11/p310 subclades in europe. western Europeans assume every group of white people have red hair put they dont realize their the only ones besides udmurt people. So i think u might be asssuming because u grew up in western europe or america red hair is very spread out. It totally correlates with R1b in Europe. Also some Indo iranien speakers have red hair and the Sythiens where known for it and of course the Indo iranien tarium mummies click
here it explains indo iranien hair color.
also the only other people with red hair are udmurts who have 15-20% and other russians around the volga around them. They are in the area Indo Iraniens and Germanic Italo Celts spread from. Also Indo European cultures in that area where conquered by Uralic cultures 5,000-4,000ybp and Udmurts speak a Uralic language and they most likely mainly decend from early Indo Europeans related to Germanic Italo Celts and Indo Iraniens.
also some berbers have red hair in moorco the ethhnic group that has some red hair is also known for blonde hair and pale skin. Somehow they had inter marriage with a very Germanic Celtic Indo iranien looking people 1,000's of years ago. There is no evidence of major Celtic, Germanic, or Indo iranien inter marraige click
here it is a thread about these Berbers they are the largest Berber ethnic group
What really suprises me is the Samartiens(decended of ancient Jews) who left the Jewish faith and inter married a little bit with none jews they also have some red hair. eve though there are only 700 left and there have been DNA tests on all of them they have no European blood also they have not inter married with any non samartiens for over 2,000 years. I saw modern pictures of them they look extremly white but then pictures from the 1900's they had brown skin and looked mid eastern. maybe the modern samartien redheads are a hoax because of the stertype jews have alot of red hair even though it probably come from european inter marriage and because some people say king david was a redhead.
but besides the Samaritans all red hair is connected to Indo Europeans and Russia. I think it originated in russia 12,000-20,000ybp but it may have a different and older age than that which could explain red hair in Samaritans and some berbers in north Africa.
