European Citizens' Initiative

peitho

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I am a student from South Germany. We are working on a European Citizen's Initiative for wich we need 7 people from 7 different European countries!
We urge the European Commission for the personal freedom and privacy of citizens to use and to oppose spying programs such as Prism, Tempora and others. The comprehensive and boundless monitoring of international traffic by domestic and foreign intelligence agencies not only violates our interest in privacy but also the essential principles of a liberal democracy.
The individual should develop freely and be able to express his or her opinion without any restrictions, without being exposed to repressive measures.
By storing the data and creating personal profiles, the foundation is laid for such measures.
Also, the comprehensive monitoring itself is a tremendous restriction of personal freedom, as every citizen must now be aware of give an opinion because he doesn’t only communicates it to his opponent, but also to the state. By storage, the fear that long-forgotten and ill-considered statements are used for one’s disadvantage gets presently.

We call for:
- Deletion of the already collected Data.
- general suspicion must be prevented.
-citizens who are being monitored should be informed.
- European companies must be protected against spying.


If you are interested in taking part, please feel free to write me here!

If you are not - what do you think about the latest monitoring scandals? Is it okay for the NSA to read our Emails? Is it okay that our own government doesn't protect us?


Greetings
 
I am a student from South Germany. We are working on a European Citizen's Initiative for wich we need 7 people from 7 different European countries!
We urge the European Commission for the personal freedom and privacy of citizens to use and to oppose spying programs such as Prism, Tempora and others. The comprehensive and boundless monitoring of international traffic by domestic and foreign intelligence agencies not only violates our interest in privacy but also the essential principles of a liberal democracy.
The individual should develop freely and be able to express his or her opinion without any restrictions, without being exposed to repressive measures.
By storing the data and creating personal profiles, the foundation is laid for such measures.
Also, the comprehensive monitoring itself is a tremendous restriction of personal freedom, as every citizen must now be aware of give an opinion because he doesn’t only communicates it to his opponent, but also to the state. By storage, the fear that long-forgotten and ill-considered statements are used for one’s disadvantage gets presently.

We call for:
- Deletion of the already collected Data.
- general suspicion must be prevented.
-citizens who are being monitored should be informed.
- European companies must be protected against spying.


If you are interested in taking part, please feel free to write me here!

If you are not - what do you think about the latest monitoring scandals? Is it okay for the NSA to read our Emails? Is it okay that our own government doesn't protect us?


Greetings

I'm for all the freedoms, but till we live in perfect society or solitary, there always be restrictions to once freedoms and privacy. Just to keep people from killing each other.
Your ideas of freedom are pretty much utopien in todays world. Also human social nature is in opposition to your privacy. Young generation exposes themselves almost completely and voluntarily on Facebook. It is like in small village when everybody knows what anyone did.

Having said that, I'll find your initiative useful to swing the pendulum from Big Brother setting towards privacy, to restore some sort of balance. Governments and companies should know that we are not blind lambs led for a sloughter.

Is it okay for the NSA to read our Emails? Is it okay that our own government doesn't protect us?
Well, that's how government protects us. Total paradox.

Keep in mind that there is no way government personnel can read even 0.0000001% of our daily correspondence. Only computers read, and only when suspect someone of antigovernment, the email is flagged for further investigation by people.
So if you're some sort of anarchist you might be on a list already. ;)
 
I'm for all the freedoms, but till we live in perfect society or solitary, there always be restrictions to once freedoms and privacy.
Your ideas of freedom are pretty much utopien in todays world. Also human social nature is in opposition to your privacy. Young generation exposes themselves almost completely and voluntarily on Facebook. It is like in small village when everybody knows what anyone did.

Having said that, I'll find your initiative useful to swing the pendulum from Big Brother setting towards privacy, to restore some sort of balance. Governments and companies should know that we are not blind lambs led for a sloughter.

Well, that's how government protects us. Total paradox.

Keep in mind that there is no way government personnel can read even 0.0000001% of our daily correspondence. Only computers read, and only when suspect someone of antigovernment, the email is flagged for further investigation by people.
So if you're some sort of anarchist you might be on a list already. ;)

No matter how many times we argue, debate and disscuss, never understand you,

in Greece we use a moto,

WHO WILL PROTECT US? FROM OUR PROTECTORS.

when you realize that,
then you have 2 choices.

either to be a protector.
either to organise and watch protectors when they overpass our rights.

Choose side, life is short



the video is a Mexican police officer (protector)
watch what he is holding in left hand.

[video=youtube;Ew16yHQsNPo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ew16yHQsNPo[/video]


And I ask again,

who is protecting us from our protectors?
 
No matter how many times we argue, debate and disscuss, never understand you,

in Greece we use a moto,

WHO WILL PROTECT US? FROM OUR PROTECTORS.

when you realize that,
then you have 2 choices.

either to be a protector.
either to organise and watch protectors when they overpass our rights.

Choose side, life is short



the video is a Mexican police officer (protector)
watch what he is holding in left hand.

That's because you have Greek mentality. Every Greek says we, and the rest of society or government is them.
In Canada we protect us.
 
That's because you have Greek mentality. Every Greek says we, and the rest of society or government is them.
In Canada we protect us.

Thank you you just answer my question, and certify my believes,

so WE must protect our shelves from THEM.
 
Well, that's how government protects us.

You cant argue like that. This is only what government tells you.

Fact is, that our government is not only collecting our data but they also analyse it and create profiles.
They know who your friends are, they know what movies you like, they know that you search in google, they know all you passwords, your bankaccount - almost everything.
Well, you could say "its your own problem if you share all that data" but thats not true. It's clearly against right to obtain all our data.

Behavior and Personality-Profiles are a huge threat to liberty and democracy. What if your next government is repressive? What if they oppress people of a special policical party or ethnology?
Then they can use all that obtained data against you.

Even before second Worldwar Holland registered all of his citizens including informations like Ethnology in a huge database.
At the end of Worldwar two 73% of Hollands jews were dead.
In Frace it were only 25%.

Collecting and analysing Data is the first step to repressive Regime.
 
You cant argue like that. This is only what government tells you.
Yes I can, because governments in democratic countries and their representatives were elected by majority of people. Therefore if government colects data on citizens it is by agreement of most citizens.
Collecting data is nothing new, government always collected date on where we live, work, how much we made, how much taxes we paid, family and marital status, what schools you finished, where you went abroad, your phone number, your religion. Collecting internet data is something new though and we'll soon learn how to set balance in this department. But generally speaking we already agreed, even deemed it necessary to collect a lot of data about ourselves.
Actually I can't wait for a day when I go to the store and computer recognizes me, calculates my grocery on a fly and charges my account, without stopping at cashier. All I would need to do is to say yes to computer on exit.
I don't give a squat if government knows how much potatoes I bough, I honestly nobody in government cares about that either, unless I bought 2 tons of potassium and amonium for "my garden".

Fact is, that our government is not only collecting our data but they also analyse it and create profiles.
They know who your friends are, they know what movies you like, they know that you search in google, they know all you passwords,
I don't think they do. Do you have any proof?


your bankaccount - almost everything.
They always knew my accounts for tax purposes. How otherwise government can do the tax audit properly? Are you afraid of your secret account in Switzerland? or perhaps you're too young to pay taxes?
It might be true in Greece, that's why barely anyone paid taxes.

Well, you could say "its your own problem if you share all that data" but thats not true. It's clearly against right to obtain all our data
. Which human or constitutional rights are you referring to?

Behavior and Personality-Profiles are a huge threat to liberty and democracy.
It is also true that transparency, order, justice, information and keeping terrorists away helps democracy and liberty a lot. All we need is healthy balance.
What if your next government is repressive? What if they oppress people of a special policical party or ethnology?
Then they can use all that obtained data against you.
In case of tyranny and dictatorship of any sort they will introduce strict surveillance over every citizen regardless if we have it in place already or not. But if we have our democratic governments doing some surveillance it is only used against terrorism, psychopaths and pedofiles. It is a tool in our hands and so far we use it smart for benefit of societies.
We never going to get rid of it, we just need to set guidelines for it. That's yet to be done.

Even before second Worldwar Holland registered all of his citizens including informations like Ethnology in a huge database.
At the end of Worldwar two 73% of Hollands jews were dead.
In Frace it were only 25%.[/QUOTE]In Poland even without huge database, 95% of Jews were gone.

Collecting and analysing Data is the first step to repressive Regime.
Absolutely not, it is first step for organized society to protect itself. There is not even one example from modern times to prove your point. On other hand, we know it was already useful in capturing terrorists and foiling terrorist actions in America and in Europe.

Let's look at China. Government is not democratic and repressive. They censor many parts of internet, and they collect even more data, especially on "difficult" citizens. But even there in China there is rarely (for that populous country) a case of arresting dissidents. The rest of society are very free to criticize government. My point is that having huge database as chinese have it doesn't lead to mass arrests, sort of North Korea style.

Another point that I would like to make, thanks to good economies of the west our countries are very peaceful and citizens are content. There is no need for tyranny and control to keep people in check, therefore there will be no need for using data against normal citizens in the west. This need exists only in N Korea and Cuba to keep poor unhappy people in check.
Even China, when got richer, liberalized control over population a lot, and can take critique and antigovernment jokes these days.

I conclude that your points against government and its control are vastly exaggerated.
 
Thank you you just answer my question, and certify my believes,

so WE must protect our shelves from THEM.
No I didn't. I said you think and feel this way. I never said that they are against you.
 
No I didn't. I said you think and feel this way. I never said that they are against you.

snowden.jpg



He prove it.
 
Snowden is not only a whistleblower, he's a hero. Put me on all the no-fly lists you want, I don't kowtow to any bullies whether individual, business, or big government. Exercise freedom of speech or be prepared to lose it.
 
LeBrok, I'm going to give you some advice although you probably won't heed it. In the West, sometimes the situation requires that you speak truth to power. Unless you are in the top 1% (really the top .01%) then you don't have to pay attention. But if you're not, please know that the elites don't respect yes men, only those that publicly call them out on their nonsense. Quit worrying about securing a spot higher on the pyramid and worry about being a decent, fair, and kind human-being.
 
I guess US and UK will be very successful within the coming free trade zone and in general by knowing so many confidential data.
 
Snowden is not only a whistleblower, he's a hero. Put me on all the no-fly lists you want, I don't kowtow to any bullies whether individual, business, or big government. Exercise freedom of speech or be prepared to lose it.
Please tell us what freedoms you recently lost in your country. With your anti establishment attitude you should have been first on the list for years. Once we on a subject, you can also tell us what freedoms, if not you personally, others gained. Smoking marihuana, gay marriage rings the bell?
 
LeBrok, I'm going to give you some advice although you probably won't heed it. In the West, sometimes the situation requires that you speak truth to power.
I always did. I came here from country where freedom of speech was broken every, prosecuted, jailed and replaced with propaganda. I know how it looks, smells and feels. You never experienced it. Let me be the sensor and the judge. I'll let you know when you need to worry about this in USA.
 
I realize that US government and secret services are in state of paranoia. They are overdoing many things just to be sure they don't miss terrorism and won't be nailed to the cross if something happens. And yet, there is no need to worry of losing any freedoms for US citizens, unless they plan terror actions, mass shooting, drug smuggling, or other major catastrophes.
The question is why wouldn't we allow automatic computer bots to check the internet to keep us safe from bad guys?
With billions of emails every day, billions twitters and Facebooks, billions phone calls, billions posted messages, all together around 100 billion a day! Assuming that there is probably around 10 thousand agents checking this stuff out that's 10 million communicates to check per agent daily. It's obvious that without internet bots they would never catch a terrorist in this jungle.
Even with all the bots, government agents can only concentrate on biggest terror cases and giant villains.
And honestly, who the heck would care what Nordicquarrerel thinks about government. Unless you and your body plans to buy 2 tons of ammonium nitrate. Now this might be flagged by bots on the net, lol.
 
He prove it.
Not it, he proved that they protect me from terrorists. There was no major terrorist attack in years in America and Europe, no electric grid sabotage or major company. I guess they are doing their job well, and I still have all my freedoms!
It is possible that without NSA actions we might be sitting for a week in darkness trying to restart electric grids in america, or get airplanes flying. Without defences it is easy to cripple all modern countries crashing all the computers with viruses and hacking.
 
the video is a Mexican police officer (protector)
watch what he is holding in left hand.


And I ask again,

who is protecting us from our protectors?

Are you for child labour Yetos? Perhaps you should be criticizing his father or pimp, because he should be in school or playing with kids!
 
Are you for child labour Yetos? Perhaps you should be criticizing his father or pimp, because he should be in school or playing with kids!


You learn to meander well.

but your manoeuvre is not helping you,

In the video the protector takes 'free' cigaretes from a 10 years old child. for not taking it to prison and then forced him to destroy his merchandise cause he is not having a lisence,

the boy is an orphan, that moved from mountains to Mexico city, and lives with his aunt.

I do not know in Canada where you live, if something like that is 'child labor' but in Video I see how the protector works.
I am certain that if you look around you, even in Canadian paradise where you say you live ,you will see many cases.

so indeed we need to organise the social WE against their fascistic THEM.

we vote someone to govern us under the laws of justice, and not under the laws of 'my will'

and in case o Snowden, since they 'hear' and 'know' all about you, then in one day they can destroy you.

with the excuse that they protect you, THEY BECOME THE TERROR OF MODERN WORLD.

search an ex-prime minister in Greece and Goldman Sachs economic killer,
and then you realize how 'powerull' they are.


and I ask you,
what if tomorrow, a big shark, buys the data from the protector, and destroy you, cause your free will and hope and bussinnes devlopent is dangerous for him?
then what?

FREE WORLD IS NOT 'eat burgers' and 'buy mobile phones',

and Snowden prove that even your Canada is not Free,


to be more specific

DO YOU AGREE WITH STALIN'S METHODS?
DO YOU AGREE WITH McCARTHY'S METHODS?

I am sure that you do not agree with first,
I ask you, do you agree with second?


They are the same

th


th
 
and in case o Snowden, since they 'hear' and 'know' all about you, then in one day they can destroy you.
Why would they want to destroy me?!
 
I realize that US government and secret services are in state of paranoia. They are overdoing many things just to be sure they don't miss terrorism and won't be nailed to the cross if something happens. And yet, there is no need to worry of losing any freedoms for US citizens, unless they plan terror actions, mass shooting, drug smuggling, or other major catastrophes.
The question is why wouldn't we allow automatic computer bots to check the internet to keep us safe from bad guys?
With billions of emails every day, billions twitters and Facebooks, billions phone calls, billions posted messages, all together around 100 billion a day! Assuming that there is probably around 10 thousand agents checking this stuff out that's 10 million communicates to check per agent daily. It's obvious that without internet bots they would never catch a terrorist in this jungle.
Even with all the bots, government agents can only concentrate on biggest terror cases and giant villains.
And honestly, who the heck would care what Nordicquarrerel thinks about government. Unless you and your body plans to buy 2 tons of ammonium nitrate. Now this might be flagged by bots on the net, lol.

in Greece a farmer can buy dozens of tones of ammonium nitrate NH4NO2 for fields, each year.
Is he a terrorist?


in America you can accuse someone as terrorist for few kilos of fertile addings,
but everybody carries a weapon.
in Europe, a weapon is a mark of killer but not ammonium nitrate.
 

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