PDA

View Full Version : Morroco~ The 29th Member of The European Union



Coolboygcp
13-08-13, 03:20
I believe Morocco should be allowed to join the EU. And it seems many agree with me, below are just a few of the many articles detailing this:

BBC~ "Morroco's Quest To Be European
Link~ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/699760.stm


By Morocco correspondent Nick Pelham
King Hassan of Morocco once said that Morocco was a tree with its roots in Africa and its branches in Europe.

Perched on the fringes of Africa, Europe and the Arab world, Morocco sits half-in, half-out of them all.

After the acceptance of the Turkish candidature, EU membership for Morocco is no longer taboo

King's spokesman Hassan Aourid
It is an Arab state, but half its population speak either Berber or French as their mother tongue.

It is African, but is estranged from the Organisation for African Unity.

And for much of the last century, its policies were decided not in Rabat, but in Paris and Madrid.

Renewed Europe campaign

Morocco has been renewing its bid lately for membership of the European Union.

During his state visit to France on 20 March, Morocco's new king, Mohammed VI - known to Moroccans as M6 - called for a new relationship between EU and its southern neighbours.

King Mohammed VI has been seeking France's help for EU membership
"After the acceptance of the Turkish candidature, EU membership for Morocco is no longer taboo," said the king's spokesman, Hassan Aourid.

There has been little enthusiasm from Europe.

Many Europeans look askance at a Muslim entry into what remains "a Christian club".

The EU ambassador in Morocco, Lucio Guerrato, said "an evolution to integration was possible", but was careful not to commit himself to a time frame.

European politicians often see Morocco as a source of illegal migration, hashish and cheap labour.

France made little response to the new king's appeal for support for its EU application.

But from Morocco, the division of the world into separate blocs - Africa and Europe - looks artificial.

Trade links

Separated from Europe by the Straits of Gibraltar a mere 14 km wide, its economic and strategic interests are firmly rooted in states to the north.

Over 60% of Morocco's exports go to EU markets, Europe provides most of Morocco's tourists, remittances and loans.

Ex-King Hassan's plan for a bridge across the Straits never materialised
Morocco is also the biggest recipient of EU development aid.

Morocco broke new ground earlier this year, when it became the second North African state (after Tunisia) to start implementing an EU Association accord.

It paves the way for tariff-free trade between the kingdom and the EU by 2012.

Scores of European textile companies have already relocated to Morocco to take advantage of cheap labour ahead of a common market which could soon stretch from Lapland to the Sahara.

But Morocco would like to see the remit of the accord go far further: it believes a free movement of labour should accompany the free movement in goods.

Historical connections

From the Romans onwards, Morocco's history has also been interwoven with Europe.

In the 12th and 13th century Spain was ruled from Marakesh.

And another sign of its European proximity: its food is the least spicy in North Africa.

But while hankering after European association, Morocco is also playing up its African credentials.

Its bid to become the first African state to host the World Cup in 2006 is facing fierce competition from South Africa.

So how likely is Morocco to enter Europe?

A hint might lie in the fate of the bridge planned to span the Straits of Gibraltar.

Announcing the project in 1988, the late King Hassan undertook to complete it before 2000. Work has yet to begin.

Newsweek/The Daily Beast~ Sunny, Modern, Morocco
Link~ http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2006/10/08/sunny-modern-morocco.html

Leila Ahlaloum, 25, is the very image of a modern European career woman. She works as a manager in a chic hotel, goes clubbing most weekends and, like many singletons, is on the prowl for Mr. Right. With her designer clothes and hip sunglasses, you'd never suspect she's a mainstream Muslim in an Islamic North African country. But as much as Leila represents a Western archetype, she's also the personification of modern Morocco. "Of course we love our own culture," says Leila, who lives in the cultural capital of Marrakech. "But ours is now a European way of life."

What a transformation. It's been 50 years since Morocco declared independence from France, yet the country has never been more European. The change can be seen in the sleek nightclubs opening in Marrakech and glossy tourist resorts springing up along Morocco's sunny Mediterranean and Atlantic coasts. But it shows far more powerfully in the widespread adoption of European political, judicial and financial reforms, which are reshaping Morocco's record on everything from immigration to press freedom and women's rights. "Without a doubt, the country is the freest it has been in its history," says Theodore Ahlers, the World Bank's Morocco country director. "It's completely integrating with the rest of the world."

Morocco's metamorphosis owes much to its dream of one day joining the European Union. Former King Hassan II made this explicit 20 years ago, though at the time the ambition seemed almost laughable. This had less to do with the fact that Morocco lies in Africa, not Europe, and more to do with its record on human rights and lack of democracy. Today, no formal request for Moroccan membership sits in Brussels, but Prime Minister Driss Jettou tells NEWSWEEK: "We want to be the southern rib of Europe." For the European Union's part, says Benita Ferrero-Waldner, EU commissioner for external relations, "We already have a very, very close relationship with Morocco, and we're studying giving them even more advanced status."

Signs of Morocco's European-style openness are everywhere. The current government is the most democratic in the country's history. Next year's elections are expected to produce a popularly elected prime minister for the first time--previously, leaders of government were appointed by the king--and Morocco's notoriously poor human-rights record is getting a makeover. Cases of torture and arbitrary arrest are down dramatically; there are fewer political prisoners. "We see Morocco as a mixed picture--which is a very favorable comment," says Joe Stork, a deputy director of Human Rights Watch. Earlier this year King Mohammed VI won praise after his groundbreaking Equity and Reconciliation Commission criticized the torture and brutality that were commonplace under his father's 44-year rule. "We are all committed to never, ever again," says Jettou, though it should be noted that the commission declined to name names.

Women's rights are now among the most progressive in the Arab world, with recent reforms to the Sharia-based family law giving women equality within marriage, the right to file for divorce and the ability to pass their citizenship onto their children. The press has unprecedented freedom, with magazines publishing once-censored accounts of the royal family's finances and internationally respected film festivals freely screening controversial work. Attesting to the practical reality of these sweeping changes, prominent Moroccan writer and political dissident Abdelmoumen Diouri returned home after 35 years in European exile last month.

Diouri's homecoming from France is a metaphor for Morocco's renewed relationship with Europe as a whole. Ties between the two date back millennia to a time when North African Moorish rulers controlled Morocco and Spain alike. But the gap between Morocco and Europe--a mere 14 kilometers at its closest across the Strait of Gibraltar--later turned into a schism reflecting historical Catholic-Islamic clashes. Tensions soared through the first half of the 20th century, with France and Spain colonizing Morocco and exploiting its natural mineral resources. (Morocco has the world's largest phosphate reserves.) When Morocco gained independence in 1956, King Hassan II took pains to assert the country's separateness from Europe.

His son Mohammed VI, a popular 43-year-old who once interned at the European Commission, has reversed that course. Since he took power in 1999--a popularly elected government followed in 2002--Morocco and Europe have grown increasingly close. This year has seen a breakthrough. The EU's open-skies agreement with Morocco, Europe's first ever outside its borders, came into force this summer. Europe and Morocco recently announced plans to extend their Free Trade Agreement to cover not only goods, as it does now, but also all agriculture and services by 2010, giving the country almost the same deal with Europe as member states have with each other. Foreign direct investment into Morocco doubled last year to €1.7 billion (not including capital investment in property), with the majority coming from Europeans. Trade between the two was up 35 percent last year, and the value of Moroccan exports to Europe--including more high-value manufactured items like automobile parts, electrical cables and software than ever before--doubled to €16 billion.

Turkish Weekly~ "Morroco Expects To Join EU after Turkey"
Link~
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/1352/morocco-expects-to-join-eu-after-turkey.html


NEWS IMPRESSION: Cumali Onal, Zaman, Morocco

Morocco Expects to Join EU after Turkey

Have you ever thought about the question of which might be the next Muslim country to join the European Union (EU) after Turkey? There is only one answer to this question: Morocco.

Spain's southern neighbor has already officially applied to the European Union (EU) for membership. It's application was turned down in 1987, but the country is under the influence of French culture and still takes its prospects for EU membership very seriously. The EU rejected Morocco's candidacy as it is not included in the European continent, but Morocco thinks that it will join the privileged club. Morocco is a country where predictions have little to do with reality. The name Morocco has many connotations for us of a country covered by deserts, backward, with old buildings, dirty narrow streets, whereas, in reality it is not like that. How wrong this idea is can be understood on the journey from Mohammad the Fifth Airport to Casablanca. With immaculate wide avenues, lush green plants and fresh air like in Turkey, Casablanca, on the Atlantic Ocean, is as the romantic location of the Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman film from 1942, even though it was not shot there. The city, with an unofficial population of eight million, is the focus of attention of Western tourists as well as Muslims who coming from all parts of the world. The Hasan II Mosque is the second largest holy place after the Kaaba and the pearl of the Atlantic Ocean with its magnificent lightening system and characteristics representing Moroccan architecture. They love Turks very much Morocco holds great respect for Turks, which dates back to the Ottoman Empire's help to Moroccan Muslims against Spanish and Portuguese before. It is one of the few countries that does not require visas for Turks, and has schools established by Turkish entrepreneurs to build the relationship between the two countries. Education in schools in Morocco is both in Arabic and French. Though the literacy level is low, there is a high level of French spoken by the educated Moroccans and Spanish is common among the elderly in the north. The daily spoken language is Arabic, but highly influenced by French and many Arabic words are pronounced as if they are French.

One of the most obvious characteristics of Morocco is the peace and harmony in the society. Women with or without headscarves work alongside men everywhere, even in state buildings. The western influenced state does not interfere in people's beliefs. Rabat, a city established by France that has been the capital since 1912, does not differ from any European cities with its avenues, architecture, cleanness, and order. Even though Cairo has overtaken Rabat as the pioneer city in the Arab that it was in King Hasan II's time, Rabat is trying again to regain its importance for the world and the Arabic countries with closer relations established with the US recently. The US chose this city to explain its Greater Middle East Project (GMEP) to the Arab world at the beginning of last year and the Future Forum that was held December 10th and 11th, is one of the last initiatives of US Secretary of State Colin Powell although it did not please the Arab world.

Morocco, with coasts on both the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, is like Turkey a point where different cultures, civilizations, and geographies meet. Besides it African-Arab-Berberi identity, Morocco is well integrated with Europe and the West in general. As the second country outside of Europe to officially apply for EU membership, Morocco has a major number of workers in Europe. What Turks are to Germany, Moroccans and Algerians mean for France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

The immense Sahara Desert contributes to the mystery of Morocco and has attracted the attention of Hollywood. Specifically the city of Urzazat hosts a big movie set and films like Lawrence of Arabia, Gladiator, the Jewel of the Nile, the Living Daylights, and Black Hawk Down were all made in Morocco's various regions.

Just as Casablanca and Rabat are commercial and political capitals, the cultural capitals of Morocco are Fes, Meknes and Marrakech. Only Turks call this country "Fas". This name originally came to our language from the Moroccan city of Fes. According to some historians, although the Ottomans reached at this city, they withdrew after a short time. Old Fes is under protection by UNESCO right now and perhaps it is the most protected historical heritage of Arabs.

Kayravin Madrasah in the city is considered as the first university. The mosque in the madrasah is the oldest mosque of Morocco.

Morocco was first called Magrib ul Aksa (far West) and now called only Magrib (far) by Arabs. Morocco is ruled by King Muhammad VI who comes from a family that has been governing the country for nearly 350 years.

In official records, the royal family is descended from Fatima the daughter of the Prophet Muhammad. Fights for succession are prevented by a law that says the heir to the throne cannot marry unless his father dies or abdicates.

Morocco has a population of 32 million officially though it is thought to exceed 40 million, with many of them very young. There is no industry and agriculture is widespread, with phosphate deposits forming the biggest income resource, though French companies operate these. A big proportion of phosphate reserves of the world are in the Western Sahara, which contribute to the problems in the region and territorial disputes with Algeria.

'After Turkey it is our turn'

Another problem of Morocco is with Spain, which occupies Septe and Melilla on the coast of Mediterranean. Spain claimed these two cites as a reprisal for the British occupation of Gibraltar, but does not give citizenship rights to Muslims who form the majority in the two cities. On the other side, there are more than two millions Moroccans in European Union (EU) countries. Turkish membership of the EU is a great blow for the clash of civilizations thesis of why Morocco would be excluded, and they will also supply fresh labor force to the EU. Morocco, though geographically in Africa, does not differ much from Europe. Indeed, the European passion of Moroccans is subconsciously closely related to the EU adventure of Turkey: After Turkey's access to the EU, it will be their turn. Marrakech is The Base for Desert Adventurers Marrakech was founded in the 11th century by Muravids who gave their name to the country and state, and some Muslim countries call Morocco 'Marrakech'. Kutubiye Mosque constructed in the 12th century presents a unique architecture and beauty, which can be seen, all over the city. The city seems to be planned around the mosque. Menara Gardens, several hundred meters from the mosque are one of the most visited places. The Cemaa el Fena square near the mosque is a top tourist attraction. In the evening veiled fortunetellers and musicians sing Moroccan traditional songs, henna sellers, snake charmers, acrobats, punters and charlatans and dippers appear. This city which has been the gate to the desert for centuries is now the base of adventurers who want to breath its mystical atmosphere.

Motorcycles and bicycles are used widely and preferred mostly by women in Marrakech and this is a strange sight for foreigners who come to the city for the first time. Furthermore, the long cloaks prevalent in this city have different shapes for women and men and can also be worn in both summer and winter.

In Morocco each City has a Symbolic Color Every important city of Morocco is represented by a separate color. Casablanca is white, Fes yellow and red is for Marrakech. Taxis of each city are in their local colors. Casablanca means "White House" in Spanish and is covered mostly by white buildings, and called "Dar'ul Beyda", which means the same in Arabic.

Marrakech built on a plateau near the mountains is famous for its red buildings.

Western Sahara Resource Watch (WSRW)~ Morocco getting EU 'membership light': WSRW urges EU to think again


Link~ http://www.wsrw.org/a128x785

The EU is about to grant a so-called ‘advanced status’ for Morocco . The move will be made now under the French presidency. “No one seems to mind that Morocco is an illegal occupying power violating the most fundamental human rights”, said WSRW international coordinator.

Despite the current grave human rights situation in occupied Western Sahara, the EU is in July planning to further deepen their relationship with Morocco , by giving the regime a so-called “advanced status”.

“It is far too early for the EU to give Morocco any such kind of green light. If EU wants to maintain the image as a credible defender of international law and human rights, it cannot invite an illegal occupying power into their home in this manner”, international coordinator of Western Sahara Resource Watch, Javier García Lachica stated.

Morocco has requested ‘advanced status’ from the EU since 2005. They first signed an Association Agreement with the EU in 2000 and it was one of the first countries to sign a Neighbourhood Action Plan in July 2005 as part of the European Neighbourhood Policy.

Although the EU repeatedly states its commitment to upholding the principles of human rights in all areas of its external policy, earlier this year, Benita Fererro-Waldner, Commissioner for External Relations announced that the agreement to grant Morocco advanced status could be finalized under the French presidency of the European Union.

Whilst the terms of this status are still being agreed, it would certainly serve to deepen the EU’s relationship with Morocco, in stark contradiction to the EU’s emphasis on human rights.

The agreement could also de facto lead to a strengthening of Morocco's foothold in Western Sahara through further Moroccan investments in Western Sahara.

“Before any advanced statues can be given to Morocco, a full human rights investigation must be undertaken by the EU. Furthermore, Morocco must clearly show their readiness to stop violating human rights against Saharawis, and show a will to end the illegal occupation of the neighbouring country”, García Lachica stated.

“There is no place in the EU for occupying powers”, stated García Lachica.

The View From Fez~ Morocco's dream of EU membership

Link~ http://riadzany.blogspot.com/2006/10/moroccos-dream-of-eu-membership.html

Morocco's metamorphosis in recent years owes much to its dream of one day joining the European Union. Former King Hassan II made this explicit 20 years ago, though at the time the ambition seemed almost laughable. This had less to do with the fact that Morocco lies in Africa, not Europe, and more to do with its record on human rights and lack of democracy. Today, no formal request for Moroccan membership sits in Brussels, but Prime Minister Driss Jettou is quoted in an interesting article in Newsweek as saying: "We want to be the southern rib of Europe."

For the European Union's part, says Benita Ferrero-Waldner, EU commissioner for external relations, "We already have a very, very close relationship with Morocco, and we're studying giving them even more advanced status."

Signs of Morocco's European-style openness are everywhere. The current government is the most democratic in the country's history. Next year's elections are expected to produce a popularly elected prime minister for the first time—previously, leaders of government were appointed by the king—and Morocco's notoriously poor human-rights record is getting a makeover. Cases of torture and arbitrary arrest are down dramatically; there are fewer political prisoners. "We see Morocco as a mixed picture—which is a very favorable comment," says Joe Stork, a deputy director of Human Rights Watch. Earlier this year King Mohammed VI won praise after his groundbreaking Equity and Reconciliation Commission criticized the torture and brutality that were commonplace under his father's 44-year rule. "We are all committed to never, ever again," says Jettou, though it should be noted that the commission declined to name names.

Women's rights are now among the most progressive in the Arab world, with recent reforms to the Sharia-based family law giving women equality within marriage, the right to file for divorce and the ability to pass their citizenship onto their children. The press has unprecedented freedom, with magazines publishing once-censored accounts of the royal family's finances and internationally respected film festivals freely screening controversial work. Attesting to the practical reality of these sweeping changes, prominent Moroccan writer and political dissident Abdelmoumen Diouri returned home after 35 years in European exile last month.


Yesterday, in THE VIEW FROM FEZ, we examined the impacts of mass tourism. The Newsweek article quoted above also has something to say on this.

Not everyone welcomes the influx. Budget airlines such as Europe's RyanAir and Jet4You offer dozens of flights for as little as £60, and recently there's been talk of a Eurostar-like train linking southern Spain to Tangier via a tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar. But critics worry that Morocco will become a touristic North Africa Disneyland, with its own culture submerged in Marbella-style oases and loud British bachelor parties. "I'm worried that Marrakech will be flooded by package groups," says Dyer, who runs a guest house in the city's Kasbah.

Still, the biggest challenges Morocco faces are homegrown. Foremost among them is jobs, says the World Bank's Ahlers. Although unemployment has dropped significantly in recent years, it's still disproportionately high among Morocco's educated urban young. Thirty-five percent of university graduates are jobless—prompting many to seek work abroad. Poverty and social marginalization come next on Ahlers's list. Fifteen percent of the population, some 4.5 million people, lives below the poverty line. Successfully tackling these two problems, says Ahlers, is the only way to improve the quality of life in Morocco, curb illegal immigration and stem the appeal of Islamic extremism.

Even if those problems were indeed resolved, would Europe let Morocco into its club? It's more a pipe dream than a possibility, most experts agree. "Some people would simply find the idea too alien," says a senior Moroccan diplomat, who asked to remain anonymous because of his position. Nevertheless, a decade ago few could imagine Romania and Bulgaria being invited in—yet last week they were. The EU's official consideration of Turkey proves that Morocco's Islamic identity is not an unassailable hurdle either.

Prime Minister Jettou fantasizes about a future where Morocco is a de facto member of the EU, whether or not it wins bona fide membership. "In 10 years, we will be a full-fledged partner in the EU family," he predicts. "When Romano Prodi [the former president of the European Commission] proposed his European Neighborhood Policy in 2001, he meant that we should benefit from all the advantages of the EU—just without the institutions." Thanks to the free-trade agreements now being negotiated in Brussels and Rabat, Morocco will soon take a big step in that direction. According to EU Commissioner Ferrero-Waldner, Europe also aims to bring Morocco increasingly into the fold on major political discussions too, including immigration, social issues, foreign affairs and terrorism.

This "deepening relationship," as European diplomats put it, is proving to be something of a regional model by illustrating what other North African and Arab countries can hope to gain through EU cooperation. Many of the countries that signed up to the Euro-Med Partnership in Barcelona in 1995—like Algeria, Jordan and Syria—have slowed intended liberalizations and remained outside the new European "neighborhood." Part of the reason, says Erwan Lannon, a member of the Euro-Mediterranean Study Commission in Brussels, is because Europe expected them to reform economically and socially—but without the "golden carrot" of possible EU membership. Morocco's booming economy and improved living standards show that even without the "member" title, there are palpable benefits to linking up with Europe.

It is hoped it will be a two-way street. Moroccan influences are already being felt in European fashion, for instance, with clothing designers discovering kaftans and traditional tribal textiles. "Europeans are fascinated by our culture," says property developer Wafaa Snibla. "Their houses are more Moroccan than mine."

LeBrok
13-08-13, 05:56
It's not impossible, although before any substantial initiatives can materialize, EU have to get its economic house in order. This might take from 5 to 10 years.

Coolboygcp
13-08-13, 06:55
It's not impossible, although before any substantial initiatives can materialize, EU have to get its economic house in order. This might take from 5 to 10 years.

The EU will, though I do not believe that it will take as long as yo project for that to occur, but I am more of an optimist regarding the EU than most.

But, Morocco would assist the recovery. They have a booming economy, huge phosphate deposits, tourisms, and likely petroleum reserves as well.

Also, this would make it much easier to build a bridge/tunnel, and trains spanning The Strait of Gibraltar. That would also increase tourism in Morocco, and thus make more money for the EU.

I think if the EU begins to consider more members, especially members with economic opportunities to offer the EU, then this would help boost their economy.

Maciamo
13-08-13, 16:32
Morocco is not in Europe and can therefore never join the EU. Anyway even if it was it is far too poor and the values of the average Moroccans are completely at odds with that of Europeans (in part because of Islam, but also for deep-rooted historical reasons).

Additionally, Moroccan immigrants are widely regarded as the worst adapted immigrants in countries where they represent a sizeable part of the foreigners (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain). I would much prefer to accept Ukraine, Turkey, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, etc. as EU members than Morocco. Actually I would even accept Russia, Caucasian and Central Asian countries before I would even start to consider Morocco.

Coolboygcp
13-08-13, 23:25
Morocco is not in Europe and can therefore never join the EU.

First off, that is absolutely irrelevant. Being geographically in the continent of Europe is not a requirement for membership in the European Union. The nation must have a "European culture". There is already a nation in the EU that is not in Europe at all, called Cyprus.

Also, differing from Cyprus, Morroco has been much closer with Europe throughout it's entire history. Parts of both Morocco and Spain were ruled by the same Moorish kings! Most Moroccans speak French! That is a European language!


Anyway even if it was it is far too poor and the values of the average Moroccans are completely at odds with that of Europeans (in part because of Islam, but also for deep-rooted historical reasons).

It is not far too poor! They have a booming middle-class, and many nouveau riche. Also, Morocco has massive phosphate reserves, which are becoming more valuable and prized by the minute. It also has a huge amount of valuable fish, as well as newly-discovered oil reserves! This would greatly boost the EU's economy, and help it recover.

Additionally, most of the Muslims in Morocco are not nearly as conservative as the Turkish, and Balkan Muslims. Most women do not wear hijabs, or similar garments. Most Moroccans are very liberal, many attend university, most are literate. If you actually go to Morocco you will discover that it is nit much different to EU nations already!


I would much prefer to accept Ukraine, Turkey, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, etc. as EU members than Morocco. Actually I would even accept Russia, Caucasian and Central Asian countries before I would even start to consider Morocco.

Most of the nations you mention are predominantly Muslim nations! Such as:

Turkey (over 99% Muslim)
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Albania
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Serbia (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Montenegro (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Russia (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Ukraine (many Muslims, though not the majority), etc

So, it is not alright for Morocco to join, because it is Muslim, however it is just fine for other even more Muslim nations to join the EU that would be a behemoth draw on the EU? But Morocco, a very rich nation cannot join because it's Muslim? Absolutely ludicrous.

Also, you would rather the European Union accept nations that are poor, have limited political freedoms, and terrible human rights records, than a nation that is European in it's culture, has political freedoms, good human rights, equality of the sexes, and a secular government?


Additionally, Moroccan immigrants are widely regarded as the worst adapted immigrants in countries where they represent a sizeable part of the foreigners (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain).

I was not talking about Moroccan immigrants, that is irrelevant. I am sure that European foreigners in Morocco are not well adapted. And many of the Moroccan immigrants in the EU are well-adapted, and are integrated into their local community. There are many community organizers, and even politicians in the EU that are Moroccans.

Lastly, Morocco and the EU already have very close relations, and why not take these relations to the next level, and allow Morocco to finally gain membership in the organization known as The European Union.

LeBrok
14-08-13, 03:32
The EU will, though I do not believe that it will take as long as yo project for that to occur, but I am more of an optimist regarding the EU than most.
I'm optimistic too, but it's been 5 years from start of recession and EU's economy is still not recovering well.


But, Morocco would assist the recovery. They have a booming economy, huge phosphate deposits, tourisms, and likely petroleum reserves as well.
Morocco can't help much at this point. Tourists will leave their money in Morocco for country's benefit, and EU lose. EU needs to get debt under control and policies which will unleash investment capital of private companies.



Also, this would make it much easier to build a bridge/tunnel, and trains spanning The Strait of Gibraltar. That would also increase tourism in Morocco, and thus make more money for the EU. It is backward. EU will benefits when Moroccan tourists go to Europe and leave their money in Europe.


I think if the EU begins to consider more members, especially members with economic opportunities to offer the EU, then this would help boost their economy.
This might happen when Morocco is in better economic shape. For now EU will be afraid of Morocco becoming next Greece in EU.


First off, that is absolutely irrelevant. Being geographically in the continent of Europe is not a requirement for membership in the European Union. The nation must have a "European culture". There is already a nation in the EU that is not in Europe at all, called Cyprus
I agree, and for that reason I believe that one day your scenario could happen. Not sooner than one more generation, 25 years.

Maciamo
14-08-13, 11:01
First off, that is absolutely irrelevant. Being geographically in the continent of Europe is not a requirement for membership in the European Union. The nation must have a "European culture". There is already a nation in the EU that is not in Europe at all, called Cyprus.

That's not true, otherwise all Western countries could join, including the whole American continent, Australia, NZ, etc. The geographical position of Cyprus is debatable. Just like Malta or Sicily they are Mediterranean islands that could be considered part of Europe or Africa or Asia.



It is not far too poor! They have a booming middle-class, and many nouveau riche. Also, Morocco has massive phosphate reserves, which are becoming more valuable and prized by the minute. It also has a huge amount of valuable fish, as well as newly-discovered oil reserves! This would greatly boost the EU's economy, and help it recover.

Additionally, most of the Muslims in Morocco are not nearly as conservative as the Turkish, and Balkan Muslims. Most women do not wear hijabs, or similar garments. Most Moroccans are very liberal, many attend university, most are literate. If you actually go to Morocco you will discover that it is nit much different to EU nations already!

Your ignorance is alarming.

Morocco's GDP per capita is about 3,000$. In comparison Russia's is 14,000$, Turkey's 10,500$, Bosnia's 4,500$ and even Albania is 4,000$. Actually Morocco is one of the poorest Arabic-speaking country. It is poorer than Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Lebanon, Iraq, and obviously Gulf states. Only Egypt and Palestine are poorer, and not by much.

In terms of Human Development Index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index), which also looks at education, Morocco ranks 130th worldwide (out of 141 countries ranked), sharing that position with war-torn Iraq.



Most of the nations you mention are predominantly Muslim nations! Such as:

Turkey (over 99% Muslim)
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Albania
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Serbia (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Montenegro (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Russia (many Muslims, though not the majority)
Ukraine (many Muslims, though not the majority), etc

Apart from Turkey, Muslims are a minority in all these countries. Even Albania and Bosnia, which used to be predominantly Muslim, are now largely atheist, and therefore more modern in that respect than very religious Ireland (where abortion for medical reasons was only legalised two weeks ago (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23507923)).

FYI, there are 96% of Muslims in Turkey and 3% are Atheists. However 99% of Moroccans are Muslim and most of them are very conservative. In Belgium it is been demonstrated (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26489-Belgian-social-security-funds-Islamic-terrorism) that most Moroccan immigrants actively support Islamic terrorist organisations. You read well. I said most, not a minority. Even unemployed immigrants on the dole manage to put money asid to fund Islamic terrorist organisations. Isn't that dedication ? True extremism.

I said that I would accept Turkey into the EU before Morocco because all Europeans have their genetic origins in Anatolia. This is where Palaeolithic and Mesolithic hunter-gatherers came from. This is where Neolithic farmers came from. This is where, ultimately, Proto-Indo-European people originated. Anatolia was Greek-speaking for over two millennia before being conquered by the Turks, who were Central Asians of partial European descent. So yes, historically, Turkey has good arguments to join the EU. I believe that the main reason it hasn't joined yet is because it is Muslim.


Also, you would rather the European Union accept nations that are poor, have limited political freedoms, and terrible human rights records, than a nation that is European in it's culture, has political freedoms, good human rights, equality of the sexes, and a secular government?

Actually I didn't say I wanted any more country to join the EU right now. I think that other Balkanic countries are not ready yet. I am opposed to the accession of Turkey because it is Muslim and ruled by an Islamic party. But every other respect, be it history, culture or even geography (part of it is undeniably in Europe) Turkey has and always will have more rights than Morocco to pretend to EU membership. Once society changes and Turkish people become less religious, and a majority of Atheists is achieved, then I will not have any objection to it joining the EU. On the other hand I will always oppose Morocco's membership because it has absolutely cannot be regarded as European geographically, genetically or historically. Mongols have about 10-15% of European DNA. Moroccans barely have 1%. Indian Brahmins have about 15-20% of European DNA and over 70% of European paternal lineages. If you want Morocco to become European, you'll have to accept India and Mongolia first (and of course all the Americas, etc.). I think I am being clear enough.



I was not talking about Moroccan immigrants, that is irrelevant. I am sure that European foreigners in Morocco are not well adapted. And many of the Moroccan immigrants in the EU are well-adapted, and are integrated into their local community. There are many community organizers, and even politicians in the EU that are Moroccans.

Living in a city where Moroccans are the biggest group of immigrants I can tell you that the majority are not well adapted at all, even after two generations here. Out of some 10,000 in Belgian jails, 1200 are Moroccans and 650 Algerians, by far the largest percentages of any nationality. In other words, even though Moroccans represent 0.8% of the Belgian population, they make up 12% of the prison population. And that does not even include naturalised Moroccans. Algerians are even worst since there are only 7,500 Algerians in Belgium and nearly a tenth of them is in jail !

In France 36% of the prison population is of Maghrebian origin (source : French Ministry of Justice (http://www.justice.gouv.fr/art_pix/CahEtudesPenitCrim25.pdf)).

edao
14-08-13, 12:34
In France 36% of the prison population is of Maghrebian origin (source : French Ministry of Justice (http://www.justice.gouv.fr/art_pix/CahEtudesPenitCrim25.pdf)).

That's all you need to know, end of argument. People like to pretend governments make countries what they are but in truth it's the people.
The idea that all these immigrants from 3rd world countries just show up in Western countries and integrate seamlessly is nonsense, they bring all the baggage and stupid ideas that made their countries such a sh*t h*l* in the first place. Besides most European countries have their fair share of poorly educated idiots why would we want to import them from another country?

Cambrius (The Red)
14-08-13, 18:11
The E.U. really needs to contract, not expand.

Cambrius (The Red)
14-08-13, 18:15
As stated earlier by another member, Morocco has no place in the E.U. It's not part of Europe in any form - values don't fit and there are many other concerns, as well.

Coolboygcp
15-08-13, 09:08
I'm optimistic too, but it's been 5 years from start of recession and EU's economy is still not recovering well.New York Times~ Euro Zone Economy Grew 0.3% in 2nd Quarter, Ending RecessionLink~ http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/business/global/euro-zone-economy-grew-0-3-in-2nd-quarter-ending-recession.html?_r=0PARIS — Europe broke out of recession in the second quarter of the year, official data showed Wednesday, amid stronger domestic demand in France and Germany, ending a six-quarter downturn that has sapped confidence and thrown millions of people out of work.
Morocco can't help much at this point. Tourists will leave their money in Morocco for country's benefit, and EU lose.Morocco would be a part of the EU, thus putting money into the EU. Also phosphates:Businessweek~ Morocco's White GoldLink~ http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_46/b4203080895976.htmImagining the future: a planned 800-acre resort project that would attract visitors from around the world. How many hotel rooms would they need? she wondered. Should it be three stars or four? And where would the museum be going? There was one issue—project funding—about which Montagnier had no questions. The estimated $1 billion needed to build the resort would come from the groundThe phosphate extracted from the rock, used in fertilizer, detergent, food additives, and more recently lithium-ion batteries, sold for decades in its raw state for less than $40 per metric ton. Those days are gone. It's currently trading at about $130.This is good news for King Mohammed VI, 47, who owns more than half the world's phosphate reserves. James Prokopanko, chief executive officer of Plymouth (Minn.)-based fertilizer giant Mosaic (MOS), has called Morocco the Saudi Arabia of phosphate, with all that implies about the King's power to influence prices and economies. Mohammed's strategy, by most accounts, is to drive the commodity's price higher yet—which means the cost of making everything from corn syrup to iPads will be going up as well.Mohammed VI is the unofficial overseer of the state-owned phosphate monopoly, Office Chérifien des Phosphates (OCP), Morocco's largest industrial company.Phosphate, when used as fertilizer, is the irreplaceable engine powering modern agriculture, and its reserves are in decline almost everywhere except Morocco. Most phosphate mines, including those in the U.S., which produces 17 percent of the global supply, have been in a downward spiral for the last decade, running out of quality rock and hindered by environmental regulationThe scale of Morocco's phosphate wealth was officially verified in September, when the International Fertilizer Development Center released its long-awaited update on global phosphate resources. Morocco's portion went from the 5.7 billion metric tons still cited in U.S. Geologic Survey reports, to 50 billion metric tons—85 percent of the world's total. Even with 170 million metric tons of concentrated phosphate changing hands each year, the Moroccans likely have at least 300 to 400 years of rock available. Talal Zouaoui, OCP's director of communications, won't agree or disagree with estimates, but says in an e-mail that Morocco has "significant reserves," and notes that reserves denote only those quantities that countries have discovered and deem economically viable to extract.Khouribga , Morocco is the world capital of phosphates.
It is backward. EU will benefits when Moroccan tourists go to Europe and leave their money in Europe.Again, if/when Morocco becomes part of The European Union; the EU will benefit when tourists go to Morocco as, it will benefit the Moroccan economy, and thus the EU economy.
This might happen when Morocco is in better economic shape. For now EU will be afraid of Morocco becoming next Greece in EU.Next Greece? :laughing: Completely preposterous!African Development Bank~ Morocco Economic OutlookLink~ http://www.afdb.org/en/countries/north-africa/morocco/morocco-economic-outlook/ The Moroccan economy displayed a degree of resilience in a particularly difficult economic context, growing by 3.2% in 2012, driven by internal consumption and public investment. However this growth cut into foreign exchange reserves and deepened the fiscal deficit.Funding the economy remains a major challenge if the country is to maintain its momentum, and continuing reform is essential to check the rise in public spending, particularly of the compensation fund (Caisse de compensation), that pays subsidies for oil and basic goods.Morocco has a coherent strategy in place since the early 2000s to achieve its medium-term vision and has made a good start on structural change, with Morocco’s phosphate industry – the world’s biggest producer and exporter – playing a key role both from a financial point of view and as a source of growth for other sectors of the economy, though the textile industry is among those needing to reposition quickly in the face of international competition.Thanks to its economic development model, which combines openness, liberalisation and structural reform, Morocco has shown resilience in a difficult national and international context.However, growth should pick up in 2013 to reach around 4.6%, driven by the consolidation of internal demand. Some industries have been given a boost by the implementation of the 2009-15 National Pact for Industrial Emergence (Pacte national d’émergence industrielle, {PNEI}) and they should make a vigorous contribution to growth.The PNEI is the result of strategic choices made at the start of the 2000s to encourage the emergence of new centres of growth, competitiveness and jobs. Morocco has focused on encouraging niche industries for export and on international promotion of emerging services to businesses. As a result, relocation of services, the automotive sector and transport and logistics are all thriving.The economic programme of Prime Minister Abdelilah Benkirane calls for the programme commitments of the previous governments to continue, in particular in respect of social policies and public investment, while bringing down the budget deficit to 3% by 2016.
I agree, and for that reason I believe that one day your scenario could happen. Not sooner than one more generation, 25 years.:good_job: I believe it could, and will happen. In the immediate future, no, but I believe in 5-10 or years or longer, that it will happen. Ideally, it would happen now, as it would help the EU, etc, but oh well.

Coolboygcp
15-08-13, 09:52
The E.U. really needs to contract, not expand.

:giggle: :laughing: :lol:

LeBrok
15-08-13, 16:55
New York Times~ Euro Zone Economy Grew 0.3% in 2nd Quarter, Ending RecessionLink~ http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/15/business/global/euro-zone-economy-grew-0-3-in-2nd-quarter-ending-recession.html?_r=0PARIS — Europe broke out of recession in the second quarter of the year, official data showed Wednesday, amid stronger domestic demand in France and Germany, ending a six-quarter downturn that has sapped confidence and thrown millions of people out of work. Just Germany and France grew some. Not much recovery for whole EU. It is only one positive quoter, so let's wait and not jinx it.




Morocco would be a part of the EU, thus putting money into the EU. Also phosphates:Businessweek~ Morocco's White GoldLink~ http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_46/b4203080895976.htmImagining the future: a planned 800-acre resort project that would attract visitors from around the world. How many hotel rooms would they need? she wondered. Should it be three stars or four? And where would the museum be going? .
Economic disproportions are too big between EU and Morocco, so it is way too soon to slap a date on it. Keep in mind that poorer members of EU receive more money from EU than they contribute.

Coolboygcp
04-01-14, 18:16
As stated earlier by another member, Morocco has no place in the E.U. It's not part of Europe in any form - values don't fit and there are many other concerns, as well.

Morocco has a place in the EU. It doesn't fit with the African Union or the Arab League. It was European for hundreds of years, and is only a few kilometres from Europe. And what about Ceuta and Melilla, enclaves of Spain on the coast of Morocco.

Sure, they have different values, I will admit that. But European countries do too, such as Ireland (a highly religious and conservative country), and Sweden (complete opposite). And Turkey has values similar to Morocco.

Sile
04-01-14, 19:54
Morocco has a place in the EU. It doesn't fit with the African Union or the Arab League. It was European for hundreds of years, and is only a few kilometres from Europe. And what about Ceuta and Melilla, enclaves of Spain on the coast of Morocco.

Sure, they have different values, I will admit that. But European countries do too, such as Ireland (a highly religious and conservative country), and Sweden (complete opposite). And Turkey has values similar to Morocco.

Morocco is in africa

- quoting history where the original Berbers have been replaced by arabs makes little sense to your reasoning

- the 29th should be Scotland or Catalonia .............Europe needs to sort itself out internally before bringing in anyone else. The nations inside the EU should be destroyed and made into many many regions. Nations and National interest are destroying the EU

morocco1983
20-07-14, 14:28
​Hello my friend i see our friend frefus morocco te be part of europe but i tell you my firend morocco is part of europ you want it or not because like our friend coolboygcp morcco part from europ scense hunderds years ago and half from morocain pepular thier origenale europe like me i'm oreginle germane and my grand mother she is arabe and berber thyer origenale europ healf od them from frensh ashulie and others thyer from germane and suedsh to and we have only 14 km and dactence is only betwen my home and city center and we had frontiers betwen our contry and spinesh ceuta and melilla ant as we that citys morrocain citys but spinesh stell them with canares from us but we will go back our citys with canares soon but wwe tallk about europ morroco help european people to worck in afrique all we cknow morcco is afrique door like he is europe door and African migrants try evrey day to traville to morocco from frontiere imagen with if morocco let the Thousandth for that African migrants to enter to europe if you said only spin and frensh has that problem i tell You are all wrong because all europ membrship will find them silfe in big trouble with that migrants and in Economy morocco find petrole and that will Help europ we cknows problems betwen russai and europe and manyTypes Economy i wish that information Help you in your vote

albanopolis
20-07-14, 15:57
​Hello my friend i see our friend frefus morocco te be part of europe but i tell you my firend morocco is part of europ you want it or not because like our friend coolboygcp morcco part from europ scense hunderds years ago and half from morocain pepular thier origenale europe like me i'm oreginle germane and my grand mother she is arabe and berber thyer origenale europ healf od them from frensh ashulie and others thyer from germane and suedsh to and we have only 14 km and dactence is only betwen my home and city center and we had frontiers betwen our contry and spinesh ceuta and melilla ant as we that citys morrocain citys but spinesh stell them with canares from us but we will go back our citys with canares soon but wwe tallk about europ morroco help european people to worck in afrique all we cknow morcco is afrique door like he is europe door and African migrants try evrey day to traville to morocco from frontiere imagen with if morocco let the Thousandth for that African migrants to enter to europe if you said only spin and frensh has that problem i tell You are all wrong because all europ membrship will find them silfe in big trouble with that migrants and in Economy morocco find petrole and that will Help europ we cknows problems betwen russai and europe and manyTypes Economy i wish that information Help you in your vote


Moroccans are culturally European people for most part. They embrace the European culture and are trying to replicate it to some extent to their country. But I have said it in other posts, EU at current form is ungovernable. To many cooks in the kitchen. 28 members so far. Its like the Eurovision song contest. At the end of the show one no longer remembers who sang and how did it sing. There was a proposal to have a 3 ties EU. First circle the Nordics+France+Italy with a core community that takes political decisions. Second tie other European countries+Turkey+Ukraine+Caucasus and maybe Morocco who get economical benefits but no political. At current form Morocco, Turkey has no chance of joining. Albania s now a candidate member but before that we were refused 4 times. The Albanian politicians were very concerned that there was a possibility of not being accepted when physically we are in Europe. If I had to vote if Morocco should join my vote would have been yes.

Ha-Nasr
29-07-14, 14:20
I don't think it's a good idea, Moroccans aren't ready to join the EU
There is a huge gap in mentality and way of life

Aberdeen
29-07-14, 17:59
There's no way that the EU will agree to the free movement of labour and people from Morocco into the EU. If they ever did, half of the population of Ghana would be in Europe the next day as economic refugees.

-RIFFIAN-
09-08-14, 03:39
I don't think it's a good idea, Moroccans aren't ready to join the EU
There is a huge gap in mentality and way of life


Hello!!

Exactly, it's not a good idea, nor it' a good thing for us Moroccans, Moroccans alongside the other four maghreb peoples have the same religion, traditions, culture, etc ..., the Arab Maghreb Union is the right thing for the Moroccans and the rest of our partners Maghrebians...,unfortunately the project of the Arab Maghreb Union not has become a reality until today because of maroc-Algerian conflict, but someday it will solve.

A very good relations with the EU as the current there :smile:


There's no way that the EU will agree to the free movement of labour and people from Morocco into the EU. If they ever did, half of the population of Ghana would be in Europe the next day as economic refugees.


EU and Morocco are moving toward that goal without requiring the adhesion of Morocco in the EU.

Google is your friend.


The accession of Morocco in the EU will surely be a catastrophe for Morocco and the Moroccans do not want to go through the situation of Spain and Greece etc ...:laughing:

Sile
09-08-14, 06:26
Hello!!




The accession of Morocco in the EU will surely be a catastrophe for Morocco and the Moroccans do not want to go through the situation of Spain and Greece etc ...:laughing:

how else is the EU going to destroy the small up and coming , progressive nations unless they join ( the EU )?................they need to milk something, there is not much left

-RIFFIAN-
09-08-14, 14:14
how else is the EU going to destroy the small up and coming , progressive nations unless they join ( the EU )?................they need to milk something, there is not much left

One of the evils I think is the euro, just when a new member joins the EU, its debt soar and reach historical levels, and the cost of living becomes very expensive,and foreign investments are reduced,the economic situation in Morocco today is fine, my country attracts many large foreign investments and the cost of living is cheap,and whenever there are more jobs for the Moroccans and the thousands of foreigners who have regularized the country.

Moreover, if Morocco does not join the EU, it's good, because my country is not going to become a protectorate of the EU in Brussels, would remain free and independent in it's policies etc ...

In the future Arab Maghreb Union, Morocco is a heavy country and will be the head and Chief together with Algeria (the largest countries in the area) ,just like France and Germany in the EU,in the EU Morocco will become more or less a slave of this.

Maleth
09-08-14, 23:08
Hello!!

Exactly, it's not a good idea, nor it' a good thing for us Moroccans, Moroccans alongside the other four maghreb peoples have the same religion, traditions, culture, etc ..., the Arab Maghreb Union is the right thing for the Moroccans and the rest of our partners Maghrebians...,unfortunately the project of the Arab Maghreb Union not has become a reality until today because of maroc-Algerian conflict, but someday it will solve.

A very good relations with the EU as the current there :smile:

There is also big trouble in Libya now, but I totally agree with your statement, Maghreb and Europe are worlds apart, and one does not fit with the other. Only co-operation can work and not integration at this point in time. To be honest as much as I would like to see a Maghreb union with all the benefits for the countries and the region it can bring, the reality is the divisions are much deeper then anyone can imagine and the impression one gets is that there isn't a genuine will for such a project to take place. Maybe times will change. I hope

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 00:39
There is also big trouble in Libya now, but I totally agree with your statement, Maghreb and Europe are worlds apart, and one does not fit with the other. Only co-operation can work and not integration at this point in time. To be honest as much as I would like to see a Maghreb union with all the benefits for the countries and the region it can bring, the reality is the divisions are much deeper then anyone can imagine and the impression one gets is that there isn't a genuine will for such a project to take place. Maybe times will change. I hope

Libyan problem is not a serious problem, a serious problem that blocks the project of the Arab Maghreb Union for over 20 years, is the conflict between Morocco and Algeria over the case of sahara etc ..., in the Libyan case , Morocco and Algeria can send troops there and end the problem in record time,in the case of conflict between Morocco and Algeria,it's about two different regimes, one pro-Western (Morocco°, and other anti-Western (Algeria),unfortunately the two countries are still living in the Cold War.

And the sad thing is that nothing will change, and there will be no one Arab Maghreb Union before shedding much blood here in north africa, ...., In short, the West must support Morocco,if he does not want an anti-Western Arab Maghreb Union and ally of Russia, as it is Algeria.

I personally think that is the US can help very well here ,help to make disappear the current Algerian regime,simply invade Algeria and bring down the Algerian regime, as was the case of Saddam regime and the US invasion of Iraq.

Only after the Algerian regime change, there will be a real Arab Maghreb Union.

God bless the USA and Morocco gentlemen,give freedom to this assholes:evil:

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 00:42
Algeria responsible for obstructing Maghreb Union: Morocco FM


Rabat, Asharq Al-Awsat—Moroccan Foreign Minister Salaheddine Mezouar blamed Algeria for the ongoing “stagnation” and “obstruction” within the Arab Maghreb Union, warning that Algeria’s position towards the issue of the Western Sahara is threatening the future of the North African region.
Mezouar dismissed comments issued by Algerian counterpart Ramtane Lamamra last week about Algiers being willing to “normalize” relations with Rabat if Morocco agrees to “respect the Sahrawi people’s right to self-determination,” saying that Algeria has issued such statements before. Morocco and Algeria have been locked in a decades-long crisis over the Rabat-controlled Western Sahara region, with Algeria backing the native Sahrawi people and calls for a referendum on independence.
In comments to Asharq Al-Awsat, Moroccan Foreign Minister Salaheddine Mezouar said: “Algeria has expressed statements such as this before on a number of occasions during media campaigns attempting to strike Morocco and harm its historic, legitimate rights and territorial sovereignty.”
“This is an issue that Algerian officials are always talking about based on the logic of the Cold War, especially when any development in Algerian-Moroccan relations or development of the Maghreb union is contingent on respecting Algeria’s position in this artificial dispute,” he added.
“They know that this position is baseless and completely incompatible with the logic of history and the principles of good neighborliness,” the Moroccan Foreign Minister said.
Last week, Algerian Foreign Minister Ramtane Lamamra issued a statement in which he confirmed that Algiers is prepared to normalize relations with Rabat, but only if Morocco accepts the Algerian position on the Western Sahara. “When Algeria banked on the establishment of normal bilateral relations with the Kingdom of Morocco and on the creation of the Arab Maghreb Union to set up a new climate in the region . . . it was based on the idea that Morocco would admit evidences and would not impose a solution in the region which would be rejected by both the international community and the Sahrawi people,”
“We do not believe that thoughtless and irresponsible actions from certain parties in the brother country will alter Algeria’s position of principle . . . Algeria will remain attached to its position,” he added.
Speaking to Asharq Al-Awsat, Morocco’s Foreign Minister warned that “the Algerian authorities . . . are jeopardizing the future of the Maghreb region and its people. They are hampering the prospect of effective cooperation which would enable our region to cope with the challenges it is facing, particularly those relating to security and development.”
“Algeria’s position [on the Western Sahara] is unjustifiable. Algeria is responsible—in front of the eyes of history, future generations and the Maghreb world—for the continuing stagnation within the Maghreb Union and the obstruction of its work,” he added.

Sile
10-08-14, 01:52
Libyan problem is not a serious problem, a serious problem that blocks the project of the Arab Maghreb Union for over 20 years, is the conflict between Morocco and Algeria over the case of sahara etc ..., in the Libyan case , Morocco and Algeria can send troops there and end the problem in record time,in the case of conflict between Morocco and Algeria,it's about two different regimes, one pro-Western (Morocco°, and other anti-Western (Algeria),unfortunately the two countries are still living in the Cold War.

And the sad thing is that nothing will change, and there will be no one Arab Maghreb Union before shedding much blood here in north africa, ...., In short, the West must support Morocco,if he does not want an anti-Western Arab Maghreb Union and ally of Russia, as it is Algeria.

I personally think that is the US can help very well here ,help to make disappear the current Algerian regime,simply invade Algeria and bring down the Algerian regime, as was the case of Saddam regime and the US invasion of Iraq.

Only after the Algerian regime change, there will be a real Arab Maghreb Union.

God bless the USA and Morocco gentlemen,give freedom to this assholes:evil:

As an arab work collegue states to me.......these islamist movements are not religious, but are arab intensions to destroy the ethnicity of Persians, Berbers, Turks, Iraqs, Kurds etc ..........the same as they destroyed the ancient Egyptians. ..............everyone has to become an Arab

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 05:21
As an arab work collegue states to me.......these islamist movements are not religious, but are arab intensions to destroy the ethnicity of Persians, Berbers, Turks, Iraqs, Kurds etc ..........the same as they destroyed the ancient Egyptians. ..............everyone has to become an Arab

I'am a Tarifit Berber, but I'm Muslim,sorry, I do not agree with you in this regard, the Berbers feel lucky to be Muslim, and adopt the Arab language and culture etc..., the language of our religion, the koran,is Arabiclanguage,and we do not have any problem with the Arabs, as on our religion there is no place for racism.

Islam uber alles!!

Maleth
10-08-14, 08:25
As an arab work collegue states to me.......these islamist movements are not religious, but are arab intensions to destroy the ethnicity of Persians, Berbers, Turks, Iraqs, Kurds etc ..........the same as they destroyed the ancient Egyptians. ..............everyone has to become an Arab

The same in Lebanon. Phoenician history is nearly totally wiped out from schools. This is not something that is happening now but has been going on for centuries.

Maleth
10-08-14, 08:32
Libyan problem is not a serious problem, a serious problem that blocks the project of the Arab Maghreb Union for over 20 years, is the conflict between Morocco and Algeria over the case of sahara etc ..., in the Libyan case , Morocco and Algeria can send troops there and end the problem in record time,in the case of conflict between Morocco and Algeria,it's about two different regimes, one pro-Western (Morocco°, and other anti-Western (Algeria),unfortunately the two countries are still living in the Cold War.



Riffian I hope you realise that there is an evacuation from Libya at present (workers + Embasies moving out). If you dont call that a serious problem than what is?

Maleth
10-08-14, 08:42
Islam uber alles!!

This is what Europe will NEVER accept, that Religion will be politics. Religious inquisition is considered part of the middle ages......since then we moved on!

LeBrok
10-08-14, 10:28
Riffian I hope you realise that there is an evacuation from Libya at present (workers + Embasies moving out). If you dont call that a serious problem than what is?
That's right. When the conflict spills over to Morocco, I wonder to which door they will come knocking for help? For military assistance and protection.

bicicleur
10-08-14, 10:40
I'am a Tarifit Berber, but I'm Muslim,sorry, I do not agree with you in this regard, the Berbers feel lucky to be Muslim, and adopt the Arab language and culture etc..., the language of our religion, the koran,is Arabiclanguage,and we do not have any problem with the Arabs, as on our religion there is no place for racism.

Islam uber alles!!

racism is based on belief your own tribe is superior to other tribes

'Islam uber alles' is the religious equivalent, it's as bad as racism, if not worse

Eldritch
10-08-14, 11:04
Morocco has nothing to do with europe, isn't even on Europe so the answer is a blatant no.

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 15:08
This is what Europe will NEVER accept, that Religion will be politics. Religious inquisition is considered part of the middle ages......since then we moved on!

For this reason and other more, we are different, quite different, for us religion is essential in life,France is not as religious,but there are other European regimes that religion has much to do.


Riffian I hope you realise that there is an evacuation from Libya at present (workers + Embasies moving out). If you dont call that a serious problem than what is?

I wanted to say that it is not a serious problem that blocks the release of the Maghreb Union, this is a serious broblem for Libyans.


Morocco has nothing to do with europe, isn't even on Europe so the answer is a blatant no.

Totally agree, relations between the EU and Morocco must not exceed what the EU calls ''neighborhood policy''.

Moroccans we do not want someone to intervene in our lives, culture and religion etc...,Moroccans can only make union and full integration with those people who share with us our values ​​and principles,like algerians,tunisians,libians & mauritanians.

albanopolis
10-08-14, 15:41
For this reason and other more, we are different, quite different, for us religion is essential in life,France is not as religious,but there are other European regimes that religion has much to do.



I wanted to say that it is not a serious problem that blocks the release of the Maghreb Union, this is a serious broblem for Libyans.



Totally agree, relations between the EU and Morocco must not exceed what the EU calls ''neighborhood policy''.

Moroccans we do not want someone to intervene in our lives, culture and religion etc...,Moroccans can only make union and full integration with those people who share with us our values ​​and principles,like algerians,tunisians,libians & mauritanians.

You remind me Ezop fable:
" There was once a fox that liked ripe grape. Since the grape was up on a tree the fox tried but could not reach it.
Then having no choice but to live the fox said: Its not good grape anyway".

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 16:03
You remind me Ezop fable:
" There was once a fox that liked ripe grape. Since the grape was up on a tree the fox tried but could not reach it.
Then having no choice but to live the fox said: Its not good grape anyway".

I speak of pure reality,not nonsense, in a very sensitive case for Moroccans, like joining the EU, I say my opinion from the core of my heart, no, no & no thanks, to join the EU will mean the death of the proposed maghreb union,our real dream.

Joining the EU we leave it to you the countries of the Balkans,since you have no other better dream,EU for Morocco,Moroccans and me in particular, is not the paradise,I repeat, we have a better dream,the Maghreb union, and we will never give up.

albanopolis
10-08-14, 18:29
I speak of pure reality,not nonsense, in a very sensitive case for Moroccans, like joining the EU, I say my opinion from the core of my heart, no, no & no thanks, to join the EU will mean the death of the proposed maghreb union,our real dream.

Joining the EU we leave it to you the countries of the Balkans,since you have no other better dream,EU for Morocco,Moroccans and me in particular, is not the paradise,I repeat, we have a better dream,the Maghreb union, and we will never give up.
OK. I got it!

Aberdeen
10-08-14, 21:46
I'am a Tarifit Berber, but I'm Muslim,sorry, I do not agree with you in this regard, the Berbers feel lucky to be Muslim, and adopt the Arab language and culture etc..., the language of our religion, the koran,is Arabiclanguage,and we do not have any problem with the Arabs, as on our religion there is no place for racism.

Islam uber alles!!

I've talked to Berber immigrants living in Canada who say they left Morocco because too many Berbers there want to be "half caste, third rate Arabs" (their term, not mine). And they described islam as an excuse for Arab colonization. These people said a lot of Berbers in Morocco think that way but are afraid to say so in public, but that often their children come out of school brainwashed and wanting to be Arabs. So it sounds as if Arabic and islam are a problem for some people there, but they're increasingly being absorbed into the majority who've lost their Berber identity.

-RIFFIAN-
10-08-14, 21:58
I've talked to Berber immigrants living in Canada who say they left Morocco because too many Berbers there want to be "half caste, third rate Arabs" (their term, not mine). And they described islam as an excuse for Arab colonization. These people said a lot of Berbers in Morocco think that way but are afraid to say so in public, but that often their children come out of school brainwashed and wanting to be Arabs. So it sounds as if Arabic and islam are a problem for some people there, but they're increasingly being absorbed into the majority who've lost their Berber identity.

May be, there are also Moroccan Berbers who support Israel and Zionists and have visited Israel several times, these Berber extremists minority are not Muslim,nor Jews, nor Christians, and do not represent the majority of the Berbers.

/watch?v=Bs-j2pPyz8c

Maleth
11-08-14, 12:20
racism is based on belief your own tribe is superior to other tribes

'Islam uber alles' is the religious equivalent, it's as bad as racism, if not worse

easily can be worse for many reasons that can take a whole debate of its own.

Maleth
11-08-14, 12:43
For this reason and other more, we are different, quite different, for us religion is essential in life,France is not as religious,but there are other European regimes that religion has much to do.

Whether a religion is essential for life or not, can take an ever ending debate and with all respect I am not sure if this can happen in Morrocco. Its not exactly a fertile ground for free thinkers and others who do not think like the establishment. In Europe people are allowed freedom of Religion, but even Atheists, free thinkers, and other minorities have their rights safeguarded and no one has a right to IMPOSE anything on anyone. No Government in Europe rules with religious law. That's something buried in a dark past and it will never return.



I wanted to say that it is not a serious problem that blocks the release of the Maghreb Union, this is a serious broblem for Libyans.

Got your point, but the current turmoil will also give a set back to a Maghreb Union. This is what I mean there is no real will for this to happen. Too many continuous events for such a long time for such a Union to materialism, when in reality a Maghrebi union would probably bring much more prosperity (in different ways) general speaking, to yourselves and the whole region.

Aberdeen
11-08-14, 18:07
May be, there are also Moroccan Berbers who support Israel and Zionists and have visited Israel several times, these Berber extremists minority are not Muslim,nor Jews, nor Christians, and do not represent the majority of the Berbers.

/watch?v=Bs-j2pPyz8c

No, they weren't interested in Israel, which they saw as an Arab problem. They said that the Moroccan school system was being used to destroy the Berber language and culture, and that those who continued to use the Berber language and practice Berber culture were being discriminated against by Berbers who had lost their language and culture and who just wanted to be Arabs. I've never been to Morocco, so I don't know how valid their concerns were, but I do know that if Morocco joined the EU, it would have to respect minority rights. Your comments make me think that Morocco and perhaps other moslem countries could never fit into the EU because of moslem attitudes about religion.

-RIFFIAN-
11-08-14, 18:09
Got your point, but the current turmoil will also give a set back to a Maghreb Union.This is what I mean there is no real will for this to happen. Too many continuous events for such a long time for such a Union to materialism, when in reality a Maghrebi union would probably bring much more prosperity (in different ways) general speaking, to yourselves and the whole region.

No will to this to happen only by the Algerian regime,the other countries of the maghreb are delighted,for us in Morocco even is mentioned the union of maghreb in our new constitution of 2011.



The project of the maghreb union also has an official site : http://www.maghrebarabe.org/en/

-RIFFIAN-
11-08-14, 18:15
No, they weren't interested in Israel, which they saw as an Arab problem. They said that the Moroccan school system was being used to destroy the Berber language and culture, and that those who continued to use the Berber language and practice Berber culture were being discriminated against by Berbers who had lost their language and culture and who just wanted to be Arabs. I've never been to Morocco, so I don't know how valid their concerns were, but I do know that if Morocco joined the EU, it would have to respect minority rights. Your comments make me think that Morocco and perhaps other moslem countries could never fit into the EU because of moslem attitudes about religion.

Berber language is an official language in Morocco beside the Arabic language, from the existence of the new Moroccan constitution of 2011, the Berber cultures are mentioned and well respected by the new constitution also, even the Hebrew part of Morocco.

Do not listen to extremists.