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RHAS
23-08-13, 14:36
"Cruciani et al.’s E-V13 and J2-M12 coalescence times bear a striking similarity to carbon-14-based date calculations for certain archaeological sites in the Maritsa river valley and its tributaries, near the city of Nova Zagora, Bulgaria (Nilolova, 2002). These sites are associated directly with the proto-Thracian culture of the southern Balkans that came to dominate the region during the first millennium BCE. Sites surveyed included Ezero, Yunatsite, Dubene-Sarovka and Plovdiv-Nebet Tepe, all of which had deep associations with the developing EBA proto-Thracian culture of the region."
Haplogroup E3b1a2 as a Possible Indicator of Settlement in Roman Britain by Soldiers of Balkan Origin.
http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm (http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm)

RHAS
23-08-13, 14:37
DNA links pensioner with Romans

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7804845.stm

Maciamo
23-08-13, 15:30
Both links are quite outdated. E3b1 has been called E1b1b1 for years.

Anyway, the bigger problem here is that E-V13 is much older than what Cruciani calculated in 2007. It has been found in an early Neolithic site in Spain, and therefore should be at least 12,000 years old, not 4,000 to 4,700 years old.

I also object to the BBC saying that E1b1b in Wales is of Roman origin if it was brought by soldiers from the Balkans.

1) They cannot be sure it really was brought by Roman soldiers. E-V13 in Wales could date back to the Neolithic or Bronze Age.

2) Even it is was brought by Roman soldiers, they could have originated from anywhere around the Mediterranean. It's not because E-V13 is the most frequent in the Balkans that it necessarily has to come from there.

3) It is utterly wrong to call E-V13 "Roman" because it was brought by Roman soldiers from somewhere in the empire. By this logic all the people in Roman Britain were Roman. So all the haplogroups found within the Roman Empire are Roman, which means pretty much all European lineages bar Germanic and Slavic ones. We should only use the term "Roman DNA" to refer to the DNA of actual Romans from ancient Rome (before conquered people migrated to their new capital) and their historical Latium homeland. According to my calculations (http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/italian_dna.shtml#bronze_iron_age) these original Romans were predominantly R1b-U152 people with a substantial minority of G2a3b1 and J2 (J2b2 and possibly some J2a) lineages. If they had any E-V13 it was probably less than 1%.

kamani
23-08-13, 16:58
1) They cannot be sure it really was brought by Roman soldiers. E-V13 in Wales could date back to the Neolithic or Bronze Age.



I'm also starting to believe the British E-v13 is mostly native from the late Neolithic. They've found stone ball-bearings used to build the Stonehenge monument. This is a Mediterannean/Levantine Neolithic technology.

tazy
27-10-14, 13:13
By this logic all the people in Roman Britain were Roman. So all the haplogroups found within the Roman Empire are Roman, which means pretty much all European lineages bar Germanic and Slavic ones. We should only use the term "Roman DNA" to refer to the DNA of actual Romans from ancient Rome (before conquered people migrated to their new capital) and their historical Latium homeland???

tazy
27-10-14, 13:13
By this logic all the people in Roman Britain were Roman. So all the haplogroups found within the Roman Empire are Roman, which means pretty much all European lineages bar Germanic and Slavic ones. We should only use the term "Roman DNA" to refer to the DNA of actual Romans from ancient Rome (before conquered people migrated to their new capital) and their historical Latium homeland???





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Tazy