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Sile
29-08-13, 05:02
link below is a map ( second map ) on the IQ of all europeans areas/regions.
The Friuliani is top with a score of 104

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/a-tale-of-two-maps/

first map for interest is unemployment map from June 2013

Noman
29-08-13, 09:23
The problem is that PISA scores won't predict the IQ. If anything, they show that IQ has a large intrinsic component. For example Finns always do well on PISA scores but have average IQ of 94. They point out Lithuania as another example.

There is probably a correlation there because how together your education system is depends on intelligence of people and on economy so they will all get linked together, but you just can't go from PISA score to inherent general intelligence. Though I am sure for south germany (which is not dragged down by east german disaster) and switzerland that high pisa and high IQ will reside in the same place, it just doesn't happen in scandinavia in general and probably a few other places. Places that are organized and have good education but just don't have a lot of extra bright people (and the ones they do have skip out for greener pastures, just like in ireland and spain).

But to me it's somewhat exciting to have that as a good example to show people intelligence has an inherent component, there's other examples but they are too abstract for most people. Most people seem to be bitterly opposed to the idea, but when you know of people who don't study don't work hard and test better than 99.9% of the population and achieve much more then it's pretty obvious.

edao
29-08-13, 19:50
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25709-Race-and-IQ?highlight=race


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecJEYplQzXU

Let the arguments begin!

Angela
29-08-13, 20:54
The problem is that PISA scores won't predict the IQ. If anything, they show that IQ has a large intrinsic component. For example Finns always do well on PISA scores but have average IQ of 94. They point out Lithuania as another example.

There is probably a correlation there because how together your education system is depends on intelligence of people and on economy so they will all get linked together, but you just can't go from PISA score to inherent general intelligence. Though I am sure for south germany (which is not dragged down by east german disaster) and switzerland that high pisa and high IQ will reside in the same place, it just doesn't happen in scandinavia in general and probably a few other places. Places that are organized and have good education but just don't have a lot of extra bright people (and the ones they do have skip out for greener pastures, just like in ireland and spain).

But to me it's somewhat exciting to have that as a good example to show people intelligence has an inherent component, there's other examples but they are too abstract for most people. Most people seem to be bitterly opposed to the idea, but when you know of people who don't study don't work hard and test better than 99.9% of the population and achieve much more then it's pretty obvious.

Absolutely correct. People never bother to check the source of Lynn's data...he does very shoddy work. Just in terms of Italy, you can't expect to compare PISA scores from an area that is prosperous, with good schools, and a mostly homogenous population, to scores from a big inner city district with lots of immigrants whose families don't even speak English. I guarantee you he didn't go through the school rolls to remove the foreign names.

One of the most amusing things that happens is that the Lynn data is used to try to prove that southern Italians are not as "intelligent" as the people from the north, because they score 90 something on his lists. Even leaving aside that these are PISA test results, this conveniently ignores the fact that 50% of the children in the schools in Milano, and probably more in Torino, are of southern origin, or indeed foreign origin, and the scores by his method are at 100-102 in some publications I've seen. So, does that mean the native Lombards or the Piemontese would score, on average, 110? I think that's a little much, to be honest, lol.

You need hours to do a real one on one IQ test...and even then, some of what is tested is dependent on schooling. Plus, even a really high IQ based on this type of rigorous testing doesn't always guarantee performance. A long term study was done in California of children with IQ's over 140. On average, they didn't succeed any more than those with IQ's around 115+. After a certain basic level of mental functioning, I think other factors come into play.

Noman
29-08-13, 21:13
Also irish have average IQ of 101 so they underperform on PISA compared to IQ.

Another thing from the blog, too, about blood pressure. I got a serious LOL from the idea that cold weather leads to heart attacks. But the map is really showing that r1b countries have low blood pressure, something we have known for decades. That's 100% of the "french paradox". I clades are actually HIGH in blood pressure compared to average.

There was some study explaining how r1b and I differ, it does seem to be something to do with the y-dna itself. Whatever else you say about it, that r1b dna seems to be healthy as a horse.

ElHorsto
29-08-13, 21:39
Exactly, it is the brain drain due to economic difficulties. The top performers always leave first. East germany had a severe loss, possibly somewhat similar like south italy, just in much shorter time.

Tabaccus Maximus
30-08-13, 01:29
link below is a map ( second map ) on the IQ of all europeans areas/regions.
The Friuliani is top with a score of 104

http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/a-tale-of-two-maps/

first map for interest is unemployment map from June 2013


The entire notion of an IQ is invalid in my view.

Homo Sapiens are highly social and highly specialized. Various types of measured 'intelligences' are nothing more than billets required in a particular Sapien economy. If all of the mathmaticians and musicians were killed off in a society, eventually those voids would be filled by new humans if the social structure still required those abilities. Sapien brains are highly plastic even into adulthood.

The demonstrated differences in 'IQ' in the developing world/social orders and high IQ countries are nothing more than the Flynn effect in reverse. Primitive societies don't require a large number of highly diversified skill sets whereas a highly sofisticated and mature society like Japan may require many intelligences.

As to the differences in Europe, I would explain those within the social context. Illigetimacy, fatherhood, immigration, social welfare state, work ethic, etc. The measured 'IQ' in these places is the result of a deteriorating society (ie. p.i.g.s.)

james stock
30-08-13, 18:12
I created a map using data from IQ tests found in Intelligence: A Unifying Construct for the Social Sciences by Richard Lynn & Tatu Vanhanen. Most of these tests go back into the 80s and 90s. Some even go back further. The tests might not be totally accurate depending on where the testing was done, the sample size, age factors when creating a final IQ from multiple tests, etc. I have intentionally omitted the calculated IQ that Lynn and Vanhanen arrive at by using IQ data + test scores to determine final IQ. I only used data from actual IQ test results found in the book to create this map.

The countries left blank have no IQ testing data, but the authors of the book did extrapolate IQ based on test scores and correlations between test scores and IQ. There is a link to a map in the original post that shows their extrapolated IQ's in the form of a map.

6002

intorg
18-11-13, 16:43
It is very interesting project. One can say that there is no distinct separation between North and South of Europe.