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Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:07
Is this true? genocide and rape of central Asians by Mongolians = modern Central Asians.

Not only in Central Asia but in middle east, west siberia, north Caucasus where people were though to related with Iranic tribes of central Asia.



The original Central Asians were a beautiful and innocent Caucasoid race before the Mongoloid invader known as Mongol and Mongoloid/Caucasoid invader known as Turkic massacred the inhabitants. The Turkic first conquered and intermarried with them and later the Mongols conquered raped and massacred both Caucasoid women and Turanid women.




Original people of Kazakhstan, Indo-European speaker


http://i43.tinypic.com/sltx8l.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/aiwn07/Andronovo_Alekseyevka.jpg


Now Kazakhs today

http://www.eaglefalconer.com/images/PG_MO_G_Soltakhan-father-son.jpg
http://kazakhnomad.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/academic-listening-class.jpg




Original Kyrgyz, union of only Turkic and Indo-European. Some were Mongoloid/Caucasoid mixed but most were Caucasoid.


http://www.centralasia-biz.com/cabiz/kirgizstan/turizm/hystory/ancientman_5.jpg
http://www.centralasia-biz.com/cabiz/kirgizstan/turizm/hystory/ancientman_1.jpg


Now Kyrgyz today

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/12/8/1228738719993/Gallery-Eid-al-Adha-Kyrgy-005.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/23/world/24kyrgyz2_600.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:07
the invaders under the Mongol empire lower class looked like this


http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsStoryPhoto/2004-01/200401132g_hr.jpg


The upper class look like this


http://i39.tinypic.com/nfgqc5.jpg
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/woCN8lVJSNY/hqdefault.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:08
Original people of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan


http://i45.tinypic.com/331j794.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/el9ybs.jpg




Many of the Uzbeks and Turkmen retained features of original Central Asians


Uzbeks were effected by both Turkic and Mongol


http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/Jeff's%20Photos/uzbekschoolchildren.jpg




But Turkmen were already effected by original gokturks who were mixed Mongoloid. DNA does not shows Turkmen they were effected by Mongolians at all but by Siberian DNA. Even Turk have some Siberian DNA today.


http://i48.tinypic.com/kbpuf5.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2cz4nwz.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:10
Original Kypchaks were Caucasoid with only some Mongoloid admixture similar to some Tatars today.


http://s018.radikal.ru/i506/1202/ca/735016289912.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/PSM_V54_D647_Kipchak_people_of_the_Turkoman_people s.png




However the Kypchaks known as Nogais are mixture of Kypchak and Mongol


They live in Russia North Caucasus and always claim to be descendants of Golden Horde.


http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af18/oditous2/Europe/3479387661_e1f5778edc_zOldhandNogaiCowboy.jpg
http://www.outdoors.ru/foto/album/27923.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:11
The original people of Northern and Central afghanistan were Kushans a Indo-European people.


http://www.grifterrec.com/coins/kushan/i_kushan3.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li0vcb8Lz61qdvvdxo1_500.jpg


The Hazara are descendants of Mongol armies and Tajik or Balochi women
They claim to be descendants of Mongol and Genghis Khan although some Hazara prefer to call themsels the original inhabitants known as Kushans


http://sadani.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/hazara2.jpg
http://www.fekrat.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/hazara-children-in-behsud.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvn4egi1by1qlsr3bo1_1280.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:12
Western Siberians used to be only fully Caucasoid or closer to fully Caucasoid.




http://i49.tinypic.com/308cqbc.jpg




today Western Siberian people ranging from Caucasoid to Mongoloid


http://archive.worldhistoria.com/uploads/6162/Bashkir2.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:14
For example take a look at this picture these are from Karalapakstan


Noticed that all the men look Mongoloid or closer to Mongoloid while most of the women look Caucasoid.
http://forum-eurasica.ru/uploads/1349787876/gallery_8583_5_15850.jpg

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:15
EVIDENCE OF RAPE OF CAUCASIAN WHITE WOMEN BY MONGOLIAN [/B]


http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm


"It's estimated that 15 million died in the Mongols' five-year invasion of central Asia.


Try convince me that the Mongols who massacred 5-15 million Central Asian people have no rape victim the Central Asian Turkic and Iranic women were properly killed.




Storm from the East: From Ghenghis Khan to Khubilai Khan
By Robert MARSHALL

Link to the book
------------------>
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y...0women&f=false




" The Hungarians described the invaders as 'dog-faced Tartars', while a French monk living in Austria wrote that, after the Mongol soldiers had raped European women, they tore off their victim's breasts and delivered these 'delicacies' to their . "

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 10:16
Siberian Ice maiden were original people of modern Altay republic and other northern areas around there


http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/447071/350wm/C0123464-Bust_of_Siberian_Ice_Maiden-SPL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XQppR.jpg




Now at these people today. They have 47% R1a with 27- 32% Caucasian maternal DNA however racially they are 70-77% Mongoloid.


http://www.virginia.edu/music/archives/pressrelease/06-07/images/altaikai.jpg

Fire Haired
08-09-13, 18:26
Gurka atila ur kind of right. click here (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) look at andronovo people in central siberia 3,800-3,400ybp u can see they have Caucasian mtDNa haplogroups, Y DNa R1a1a(probably deeper subclade), light skin, mixed brown and blonde hair and mixed light eyes and brown eyes. There are many remains of these Indo Iranian speaking people in central asia going all the way to 1,600ybp. click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?90089-Where-did-proto-Indo-Iranian-speakers-ancestry-orignate) for their full y dna, mtdna, hair color, eye color, and were i think their ancestry originated. They are were the tarim mummies come from the 4,000 year old ones had Y DNa R1a1a and almost all mongliod mtdna haplogroups and they had mixed european mixed east asian features.

It has been shown with Y DNa R1a1a click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpolishgenes.blogspot.com%2F2011%2 F11%2Forigins-of-r1a1a1-in-or-near-europe-aka.html&ei=eKEsUsTaGMTUqgGCxoDYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGzjfaDl-mdALew_DFPK9ydyhG1sQ&sig2=HsJMAHVO_TLlTI5AmEjDEA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) .That there was a huge migration out of Russia Ukriane area deep into asia starting in the early bronze age 5,000ybp. And that they are the ones who spread Indo Iranian languages branch of Indo European. Which i think because of Y DNA and they both descend from yamna culture that they form a branch with Balto Slavic languages click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89686-Yamna-culture-source-of-Indo-Iranian-and-Balto-Slavic-languages-and-their-R1a). The proto Indo Iranian speakers would have begun about 5,000 ybp in northern Russian Yamna culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FYamna_c ulture&ei=LKIsUvCxMsjQyAGmyoHIBg&usg=AFQjCNHb6Rh3o3cAWFpKHCAPoWXk2Xd4rQ&sig2=JQiVLUrv-nl0JQtxLLe3Bg&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) or in Sinshta (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSintash ta_culture&ei=PaIsUqaFOezUyQGh84DgBA&usg=AFQjCNE5UwgrXIqIYbfZOnazekbu0OG_Jg&sig2=vdFk-wm17RJglIs_-BUExw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and Abashevo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAbashev o_culture&ei=TaIsUtnwHoSzqQGW3oGYDw&usg=AFQjCNFWRl_JjtoHnzVVnbeKnv68KBbrAQ&sig2=-Voe__K9UzanPFQdh3G8tg&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM)cultures 4,000-5,000ybp. And they spread around asia like crazy. Indo Iranian languages like Turkic languages today was the dominate language family of central Asia and from India-iran from 3,500-2,000ybp.

Based on ancient DNa and phyiscal descriptions by Greek and Chinese writers. It seems like the Indo Iranians speakers in central asia stayed very unmixed so they would have been white. So there were big groups of white people like Sycthians (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FScythia ns&ei=TaMsUoymNoSGrgHC24Fo&usg=AFQjCNHWu2E9D2Xes0l35wOQUiuk29m3-A&sig2=gsNrsQ_WyAq_qDG1-Q2vUQ&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and tocherians in central Asia before Turkic tribes conquered them mainly in the i think 200ad -400ad and the middle ages. Since like everyone in central asia today speakes a turkic language and look east asian it could be possible that they nearlly killed off the indo european and indo iranian european tribes that lived there in the early bronze - late iron age 5,000-1,600ybp.

I think people including national genographic assume the east asian people in central asia so like around Kazakhstan were their first. All i know is that 5,000 ybp there was a huge migration of white people throughout central asia and that there were many hige groups of white people there till 1,600ybp and they were conquered by turks. Ancient DNA has shown they did mix with east asian people mainly the ones in west china. mongolia, and central siberia. They had alot of contact with turkic tribes before they were conquered by them. Since eastern European mtDNa as old as 7,000-9,000 years old will show almost all typical Caucasin groups but a few mongliod ones. That there were mongliod people probably in central asia they inter married with i dont know.

Uralic languages, y dna n1c1, and kunda culture came to finland and huge parts of northeastern europe 7,000-8,000ybp. But those mongliods came from northern northern asia. But the trukic languages spread out less than 2,000ybp. Who lived in central asia before the white Indo Iranian speakers started to come 5,000ybp/ It is hard to say. I would guess that most of Turkic speakers ancestry is from inavders who came less than 2,000ybp they are kind of like who the old indo iranian tribes were they are big groups of mongliod people who might not be native. Just like there were big groups of white people in that area who were not native 5,000ybp.

Gurka atla
08-09-13, 18:48
Gurka atila ur kind of right. click here (http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml) look at andronovo people in central siberia 3,800-3,400ybp u can see they have Caucasian mtDNa haplogroups, Y DNa R1a1a(probably deeper subclade), light skin, mixed brown and blonde hair and mixed light eyes and brown eyes. There are many remains of these Indo Iranian speaking people in central asia going all the way to 1,600ybp. click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?90089-Where-did-proto-Indo-Iranian-speakers-ancestry-orignate) for their full y dna, mtdna, hair color, eye color, and were i think their ancestry originated. They are were the tarim mummies come from the 4,000 year old ones had Y DNa R1a1a and almost all mongliod mtdna haplogroups and they had mixed european mixed east asian features.

It has been shown with Y DNa R1a1a click here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpolishgenes.blogspot.com%2F2011%2 F11%2Forigins-of-r1a1a1-in-or-near-europe-aka.html&ei=eKEsUsTaGMTUqgGCxoDYDQ&usg=AFQjCNGzjfaDl-mdALew_DFPK9ydyhG1sQ&sig2=HsJMAHVO_TLlTI5AmEjDEA&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) .That there was a huge migration out of Russia Ukriane area deep into asia starting in the early bronze age 5,000ybp. And that they are the ones who spread Indo Iranian languages branch of Indo European. Which i think because of Y DNA and they both descend from yamna culture that they form a branch with Balto Slavic languages click here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?89686-Yamna-culture-source-of-Indo-Iranian-and-Balto-Slavic-languages-and-their-R1a). The proto Indo Iranian speakers would have begun about 5,000 ybp in northern Russian Yamna culture (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FYamna_c ulture&ei=LKIsUvCxMsjQyAGmyoHIBg&usg=AFQjCNHb6Rh3o3cAWFpKHCAPoWXk2Xd4rQ&sig2=JQiVLUrv-nl0JQtxLLe3Bg&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) or in Sinshta (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSintash ta_culture&ei=PaIsUqaFOezUyQGh84DgBA&usg=AFQjCNE5UwgrXIqIYbfZOnazekbu0OG_Jg&sig2=vdFk-wm17RJglIs_-BUExw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and Abashevo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAbashev o_culture&ei=TaIsUtnwHoSzqQGW3oGYDw&usg=AFQjCNFWRl_JjtoHnzVVnbeKnv68KBbrAQ&sig2=-Voe__K9UzanPFQdh3G8tg&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM)cultures 4,000-5,000ybp. And they spread around asia like crazy. Indo Iranian languages like Turkic languages today was the dominate language family of central Asia and from India-iran from 3,500-2,000ybp.

Based on ancient DNa and phyiscal descriptions by Greek and Chinese writers. It seems like the Indo Iranians speakers in central asia stayed very unmixed so they would have been white. So there were big groups of white people like Sycthians (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FScythia ns&ei=TaMsUoymNoSGrgHC24Fo&usg=AFQjCNHWu2E9D2Xes0l35wOQUiuk29m3-A&sig2=gsNrsQ_WyAq_qDG1-Q2vUQ&bvm=bv.51773540,d.aWM) and tocherians in central Asia before Turkic tribes conquered them mainly in the i think 200ad -400ad and the middle ages. Since like everyone in central asia today speakes a turkic language and look east asian it could be possible that they nearlly killed off the indo european and indo iranian european tribes that lived there in the early bronze - late iron age 5,000-1,600ybp.

I think people including national genographic assume the east asian people in central asia so like around Kazakhstan were their first. All i know is that 5,000 ybp there was a huge migration of white people throughout central asia and that there were many hige groups of white people there till 1,600ybp and they were conquered by turks. Ancient DNA has shown they did mix with east asian people mainly the ones in west china. mongolia, and central siberia. They had alot of contact with turkic tribes before they were conquered by them. Since eastern European mtDNa as old as 7,000-9,000 years old will show almost all typical Caucasin groups but a few mongliod ones. That there were mongliod people probably in central asia they inter married with i dont know.

Uralic languages, y dna n1c1, and kunda culture came to finland and huge parts of northeastern europe 7,000-8,000ybp. But those mongliods came from northern northern asia. But the trukic languages spread out less than 2,000ybp. Who lived in central asia before the white Indo Iranian speakers started to come 5,000ybp/ It is hard to say. I would guess that most of Turkic speakers ancestry is from inavders who came less than 2,000ybp they are kind of like who the old indo iranian tribes were they are big groups of mongliod people who might not be native. Just like there were big groups of white people in that area who were not native 5,000ybp.

The Tarim Basin samples had 100% Caucasoid paternal DNA and about 42.6% Caucasoid maternal DNA, showing interracial marriages between Caucasoid men/Mongoloid women. They properly look predominately Caucasoid to fully Caucasoid. Later the Turkic invasion gave a influx of 32% Mongoloid Y-DNA.


The Uyghurs are descendants of Turkic and Tocharians.

Uyghurs Y-DNA and mtDNA

32% Mongoloid Y-DNA and 57.4% Mongoloid mtDNA

68% Caucasoid Y-DNA and 42.6% Caucasoid mDNA.

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/uygurs.html


I sometimes wonder if Uyghurs are really half white, if you ask me they look like a mixture of middle easterner and East Asian. For example some Afghans also have red hair hair, blonde hair, blue eyes which look kinds of European but most of them are still clearly still middle eastern people.


http://www.unpo.org/imgi/p/95.jpg
http://www.uyghurensemble.co.uk/graphic/w-uyghur-girl.jpg
http://erenguevercin.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/uyghurs20people20xinjiang.jpg
http://www.kyrgyzjer.com/img-spub/3352_pub.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/10mrg60.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-g/SlGuQO6dEBI/AAAAAAAAJ9I/-twAhSl3lXM/s400/800px-Khotan-mercado-chicos-d01.jpg
http://www.fravahr.org/local/cache-vignettes/L256xH390/Uyghur_boy_Kashgar-9a31b.jpg
http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~mehmud/gallery/crafts/images/Man_with_Uyghur_hats.jpg

Fire Haired
08-09-13, 19:02
The Tarim Basin samples had 100% Caucasoid paternal DNA and about 42.6% Caucasoid maternal DNA, showing interracial marriages between Caucasoid men/Mongoloid women. They properly look predominately Caucasoid to fully Caucasoid. Later the Turkic invasion gave a influx of 32% Mongoloid Y-DNA.


The Uyghurs are descendants of Turkic and Tocharians.

Uyghurs Y-DNA and mtDNA

32% Mongoloid Y-DNA and 57.4% Mongoloid mtDNA

68% Caucasoid Y-DNA and 42.6% Caucasoid mDNA.

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/uygurs.html


I sometimes wonder if Uyghurs are really half white, if you ask me they look like a mixture of middle easterner and East Asian. For example some Afghans also have red hair hair, blonde hair, blue eyes which look kinds of European but most of them are still clearly still middle eastern people.

Actulley only 14% of tarium mummies had Caucasian haplogroups two H and one K. Since 14 66.66% had C4 shows there was probably descended from a similar Mongliod mother. Maybe there was a clan of Mongliods and white Indo Iranians who wanted peace by inter marriage and cousins and sisters from the same group were all Given indo Iranian husbends. all the cousins and sisters came from the same grandmother who had C4. Thats possiblity i would think the mongliod-indo Iranian European inter marriage was recent because of all the C4.

I dont know about Ughur i know they have a high amount of Indo iranian R1a1a1b2 so of European origin. They also have pretty high amounts of R1b1a1 M73 which in eupedia leader Maciamo was also spread into central asia by Indo iranians. So i guess they do have a good amount of Y DNa from white INdo Iranians. When people are conquered the men die so the native y dna does survive not that well. But it seems that is not what happened with Indo Iranians in central asia because their Y DNa r1a1a1b2 Z93 is still very popular more popular than Caucasin mtDNA.

The reason for why so many central asian remains and DNA from bronze and iron age turn up European. is because they look for remains of sycthians and indo iranians they might not have been the majority in central asia. they defintley did take up almost all of it but there may have been other non indo iranian non turkic people. BUt there is no doubt that there were big groups of white people throughout central asia from 5,000-2,000ybp. that seem to have been killed of a blended in with mongliod turks. but who lived there before i would guess mongliod people but i dont know.


http://www.unpo.org/imgi/p/95.jpg
http://www.uyghurensemble.co.uk/graphic/w-uyghur-girl.jpg
http://erenguevercin.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/uyghurs20people20xinjiang.jpg
http://www.kyrgyzjer.com/img-spub/3352_pub.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/10mrg60.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-g/SlGuQO6dEBI/AAAAAAAAJ9I/-twAhSl3lXM/s400/800px-Khotan-mercado-chicos-d01.jpg
http://www.fravahr.org/local/cache-vignettes/L256xH390/Uyghur_boy_Kashgar-9a31b.jpg
http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~mehmud/gallery/crafts/images/Man_with_Uyghur_hats.jpg[/QUOTE]

Gurka atla
12-09-13, 21:07
Actulley only 14% of tarium mummies had Caucasian haplogroups two H and one K. Since 14 66.66% had C4 shows there was probably descended from a similar Mongliod mother.

Only 14%? I don't understand, can you show me a studyor was this only the Xiaohe people.?

They also found two sub-haplogroups, U3 and X2, that are rare in Central Asia were found in this study, Why does Uyghur have 42.6% Caucasoid maternal DNA today? who imported this if weren't from the Tocharians? Uyghurs today are descendants of Mongoloid Turkic tribe and Indo-Europeans that is what people claim.

(Note: I don't claim Turkic were Mongoloid but some tribes seems to be described completely different to others )



Maybe there was a clan of Mongliods and white Indo Iranians who wanted peace by inter marriage and cousins and sisters from the same group were all Given indo Iranian husbends. all the cousins and sisters came from the same grandmother who had C4. Thats possiblity i would think the mongliod-indo Iranian European inter marriage was recent because of all the C4.

That is what I think too. Siberian women interrmaried with Indo-European men, but I'm curious a 42.6% of Caucasoid maternal DNA in Uyghurs while in your study claimed only 14%





The reason for why so many central asian remains and DNA from bronze and iron age turn up European. is because they look for remains of sycthians and indo iranians they might not have been the majority in central asia. they defintley did take up almost all of it but there may have been other non indo iranian non turkic people. BUt there is no doubt that there were big groups of white people throughout central asia from 5,000-2,000ybp. that seem to have been killed of a blended in with mongliod turks. but who lived there before i would guess mongliod people but i dont know.

I seriously doubt they were European people, modern Central Asian are like a mixture of middle eastern people and Europeans. If anything they are closer to the Caucasus people who are considered European even though their DNA are more similar of Tajikistan

Haplogroup R1a is actually higher in Tajiks and some Pasthun sub-tribes than Europeans


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Pashtun_people.jpg
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/ID1drtYdZ50/hqdefault.jpg
http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p15034.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/BalochPeople.jpg

Ike
13-09-13, 00:18
What about this (http://steppeasia.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/andronovo3.jpg) theory? Found it somewhere on internet.
Maybe IE made the push to the east, not the opposite.

Gurka atla
13-09-13, 02:20
What about this (http://steppeasia.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/andronovo3.jpg) theory? Found it somewhere on internet.
Maybe IE made the push to the east, not the opposite.

Those are just some Eurocentrist theory, there is still no proof that is correct.

Fire Haired
13-09-13, 03:04
I seriously doubt they were European people, modern Central Asian are like a mixture of middle eastern people and Europeans. If anything they are closer to the Caucasus people who are considered European even though their DNA are more similar of Tajikistan

Haplogroup R1a is actually higher in Tajiks and some Pasthun sub-tribes than Europeans

U cant just make broad statements what real DNA evidence do u have they are closer to people in the CAucus mountains and what real DNA evidence do u have caucus people are like Tajiks. The mystery is pretty much figured out starting about 5,000ybp there was a mass migration of bronze age White people out of northern Russia apart of early Indo European culture Yamna. They had vast majority Y DNA R1a1a1b2 Z93 they spoke proto Indo Iranian language they took up almost all land from the Caspian sea-western china-central siberia and they mixed culturally and then eventulley conquered all the land from India to Iran and central Iraq even parts of Turkey and Syria. That is the origin of Mongliod Caucasin mixed 4,000 year old tarim mummies with Y DNa R1a1a in western China. and the origin of blonde and brown haired light eyed, and brown eyed, light skinned people in central Siberian bronze age Andronovo culture with Y DNa R1a1a plus their culture is traced back to Yamna.

Hopfully y get what i am saying we now know the mystery of the tarim mummies, the mysterious red haired tocherians from ancient western china, the white sycthians from central asia, and all those Caucasian Skeletal remains in central asai from the bronze and iron age, There is no reason to kepp talking about where they came from we already know. THen there was a mass migration of Turkic speaking Mongliod people out of i think somewhere around Mongolia were they conquered the white Indo Iranian tribes throughout central asia and western China. It seems they may have completely massacred them and it happened after the birth of jesus so after 2,000ybp. I dont know that much about the historical stuff but i think early middle ages since many Indo Iranian tribes were still very popular till 400ad partly because we have their DNA samples.

There is still some European traits u can find in central Asia and western China so what we know were it came from. The mystery to me is who were the dominate people in central Asia before the mass migration of white Indo Iranian tribes from northern Russia. I would guess a Mongliod people because in very very old Neolithic and Mesolithic mtDNA samples from far eastern Europe u do sometimes find Mongliod haplogroups their mor epopular than u would think. The iNdo Iranians i think most likley did a similar kill off to to who ever lifed in central assia before. Or maybe some of the mongliod blood in modern central Asians is not from Turks.

The Possibly white INdo Iranian kill off of who ever lived in central asia over 5,000ybp. Then Mongliod kill off of white INdo Iranians after 2,000ybp is not unique. Sadely with so much new stuff with egentics being figured out with DNa those are not the only times people groups have almost been completely killed off. It seems like the Proto Insular Celtic speakers did that to the British isles in the bronze age somewhere from 3,000-4,300ybp. And then Germanic tribes (JUtes, Saxons, and Angeals) did almost the same thing from 400-600ad to southern Britain. (british ancestry almost all from Celtic and Germanic invaders (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?92232-British-ancestry-almost-all-from-Celtic-and-Germanic-Conqueres)). ANd of course u have heard about European conquering of North and south America. THeir land in non latin america was taken but they were not completely killed off and not directly like the Germans did to southern Britain. It was kind of gradual. There are stil full blooded native americans. In latin America it was much much worse the Spainish massacred people and directley conquered them. BUt they also mixed with the people many spainish settlers came and mixed with the Indians to make modern Latin Americans. But then it is confusing Mexicans on average have much more Native American blood than Puerto Ricans. It is kind of like in southern Britain were they are kind of a mix of the native Britians and the Germans who invaded. and it is not a biased with Y DNa and mtDNA showing they mixed and became one people.

Fire Haired
13-09-13, 03:06
Haplogroup R1a is actually higher in Tajiks and some Pasthun sub-tribes than Europeans

That doesnt matter just a direct male line aka Y DNa haplogroup. They are probably almost all under Indo iranian subclade R1a1a1b2 Z93 not Balto Slavic R1a1a1b1 Z283. The European blood they do have is from the proto Indo Iranian speakers who came out of northern Russian Yamna culture and migrated throughout asia from 5,000-3,500ybp. Y DNA spread by INdo Europeans (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?91971-Y-DNA-spread-by-Indo-Europeans-(R1a1a1-M417-R1b1a2a1-L51)-(R1b1a2a-L23-R1b1a1-M73-Etc-)) where did proto INdo Iranian speakers ancestry orignate (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?90089-Where-did-proto-Indo-Iranian-speakers-ancestry-orignate)

Gurka atla
13-09-13, 03:37
U cant just make broad statements what real DNA evidence do u have they are closer to people in the CAucus mountains and what real DNA evidence do u have caucus people are like Tajiks. The mystery is pretty much figured out starting about 5,000ybp there was a mass migration of bronze age White people out of northern Russia apart of early Indo European culture Yamna. They had vast majority Y DNA R1a1a1b2 Z93 they spoke proto Indo Iranian language they took up almost all land from the Caspian sea-western china-central siberia and they mixed culturally and then eventulley conquered all the land from India to Iran and central Iraq even parts of Turkey and Syria. That is the origin of Mongliod Caucasin mixed 4,000 year old tarim mummies with Y DNa R1a1a in western China. and the origin of blonde and brown haired light eyed, and brown eyed, light skinned people in central Siberian bronze age Andronovo culture with Y DNa R1a1a plus their culture is traced back to Yamna.

Hopfully y get what i am saying we now know the mystery of the tarim mummies, the mysterious red haired tocherians from ancient western china, the white sycthians from central asia, and all those Caucasian Skeletal remains in central asai from the bronze and iron age, There is no reason to kepp talking about where they came from we already know. THen there was a mass migration of Turkic speaking Mongliod people out of i think somewhere around Mongolia were they conquered the white Indo Iranian tribes throughout central asia and western China. It seems they may have completely massacred them and it happened after the birth of jesus so after 2,000ybp. I dont know that much about the historical stuff but i think early middle ages since many Indo Iranian tribes were still very popular till 400ad partly because we have their DNA samples.

There is still some European traits u can find in central Asia and western China so what we know were it came from. The mystery to me is who were the dominate people in central Asia before the mass migration of white Indo Iranian tribes from northern Russia. I would guess a Mongliod people because in very very old Neolithic and Mesolithic mtDNA samples from far eastern Europe u do sometimes find Mongliod haplogroups their mor epopular than u would think. The iNdo Iranians i think most likley did a similar kill off to to who ever lifed in central assia before. Or maybe some of the mongliod blood in modern central Asians is not from Turks.

The Possibly white INdo Iranian kill off of who ever lived in central asia over 5,000ybp. Then Mongliod kill off of white INdo Iranians after 2,000ybp is not unique. Sadely with so much new stuff with egentics being figured out with DNa those are not the only times people groups have almost been completely killed off. It seems like the Proto Insular Celtic speakers did that to the British isles in the bronze age somewhere from 3,000-4,300ybp. And then Germanic tribes (JUtes, Saxons, and Angeals) did almost the same thing from 400-600ad to southern Britain. (british ancestry almost all from Celtic and Germanic invaders (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?92232-British-ancestry-almost-all-from-Celtic-and-Germanic-Conqueres)). ANd of course u have heard about European conquering of North and south America. THeir land in non latin america was taken but they were not completely killed off and not directly like the Germans did to southern Britain. It was kind of gradual. There are stil full blooded native americans. In latin America it was much much worse the Spainish massacred people and directley conquered them. BUt they also mixed with the people many spainish settlers came and mixed with the Indians to make modern Latin Americans. But then it is confusing Mexicans on average have much more Native American blood than Puerto Ricans. It is kind of like in southern Britain were they are kind of a mix of the native Britians and the Germans who invaded. and it is not a biased with Y DNa and mtDNA showing they mixed and became one people.


The DNA evidence is in every sampled Central Asian Caucasoid component. If they were the same as Europeans white than why is their Caucasoid components more related with Caucasus and Tajiks?


http://i48.tinypic.com/2b9ugn.jpg

Gurka atla
13-09-13, 03:46
Something that must be mentioned. What is now western china was not part of china this doesn't only include Turkestan

http://gopkorea.blogs.com/flyingyangban/chinese_imperial_map.gif

Qinghai was not part of China they used to be a Tibetan language family, the ethnic minority still lives there


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Qinghai_in_China_(%2Ball_claims_hatched).svg/275px-Qinghai_in_China_(%2Ball_claims_hatched).svg.png


For you info Yunnan in the past was not part of Chinese. They were conquered by the Ming dynasty, the indegenious group of Yunnan still lives there, and you genocide the ethnic group living only few Tibeto-burmese tribes alive


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Yunnan_in_China_(%2Ball_claims_hatched).svg/965px-Yunnan_in_China_(%2Ball_claims_hatched).svg.png

Fire Haired
13-09-13, 04:15
The DNA evidence is in every sampled Central Asian Caucasoid component. If they were the same as Europeans white than why is their Caucasoid components more related with Caucasus and Tajiks?


http://i48.tinypic.com/2b9ugn.jpg

Good point there is a unexplainble mid eastern mainly west asian in globe13 in central asia. Maybe they were their first or just before white indo Iranians and mongliod turks.

adamo
13-09-13, 05:49
Turkestan may have High's of hg T, same for Central Asia slightly to the west.

toyomotor
12-11-13, 19:37
Gurk atla: I think "genocide" is going too far. Back in ~ 13oo's when the Mongols were raiding throughout eastern Asia, and eventually most of Europe and South East Asia, the gained a reputation, well earned, for slaughtering those who stood in their path. They never set out to kill off a whole country or people, which is what genocide is. In many cases, they didn't commit wholesale slaughter as their reputation preceeded them and the cities/countries capitulated. In many cases, it didn't suit their longer term goal to kill off entire populations.

Ike
14-11-13, 17:00
For example take a look at this picture these are from Karalapakstan


Noticed that all the men look Mongoloid or closer to Mongoloid while most of the women look Caucasoid.
http://forum-eurasica.ru/uploads/1349787876/gallery_8583_5_15850.jpg


It could be only seen in Y/mT DNA maps, but the first generation of children would have already been 50/50 mix.

Thulean
14-11-13, 23:30
Chinese authorities are actually making efforts to hinder archeologic and genetic research on non-mongolian mummies, sites etc. for nationalistic reasons.

Peace365
05-01-14, 15:49
Gurka atla ,ingilizcem o kadar da iyi değil fakat size sormak ve paylaşmak istediklerim var ,size nasıl ulaşabilirim?

Peace365
05-01-14, 15:51
agree,chinese authorities are very conservative and non scientific on much more topics unfortunatelly

Peace365
05-01-14, 15:53
on the contrary men and women are looking in same fenotype. also you couldn't make a conclusion with olny one picture which is eems very relative.

Peace365
05-01-14, 15:59
its impossible to change ethnicity or genotype by the rapings,also there is no any sources which are detailing it.all is just claims and defamations.

Peace365
05-01-14, 16:27
Fire Haired ,sorry but i couldn't see any scientific point of view in your comment here. because you are using termins like killing conquering and chnaging populations and nations by destruction and killing so called "white" people by Tukic people.Also why don't you try to aknowledge or understand that fact the Turkic people are "white" also,the are not yellow race?

mihaitzateo
05-01-14, 23:22
Well I do not think original Turkic speakers were Caucasian people,but they were mongoloid people,in Altai mountains.
In Romania some Turkic tribes settled also,for example Cumans,which also seems to mixed with Romanians,but they were few.
These people were not warriors,but cattle hearders.
We have people,in Romania, with Mongoloid look.
I do not agree with the fact you are judging all mongoloid people as rapers,killers of civilians and so on.

Cumans were accepted in Romania,because people of Romania were loving mountains and nature and Cumans seems to also loved mountains,nature etc.
Some are saying that first ruler of Vlachia was of Cuman descent,but I do not think so.
Anyway,Pechenegs,which were also Turkic speakers are described as mostly blonde and blue eyed.
You can see from those statues that they are not looking far from today Altaians,with flat forehead etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Baba_010.jpg
And they were not mixed with Mongolians.
Mongoloid does not means Mongol,but some with Asian look,like Siberians,Chinesse,Japannese and so on.
The Romanians who have Asian look could not have take it from Tatars,or Mongols since when savage people were coming,Romanians were running to mountains and were staying there,until Tatars or Mongols were living.
We also have as family name Coman,go figure from where that come .

Alan
06-01-14, 10:35
It could be only seen in Y/mT DNA maps, but the first generation of children would have already been 50/50 mix.


The funny part is on y/mt DNA maps it appears much more like the Indo European influx came from the paternal side. He just rhymes things together.

mihaitzateo
06-01-14, 12:35
The funny part is on y/mt DNA maps it appears much more like the Indo European influx came from the paternal side. He just rhymes things together.

Now since it is about these things,what are you thinking about this study,of David Faux?
He is suggesting Norse R1A1 is rather Central Asian in origins.
http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf
However,I think that this document shows that there is resemblance between Central Asian R1A1 and Norse R1A1,but we can not conclude that Turkic or other Asian people brought that R1A1 there .
Maybe some Indo Europeans brought this R1A1 in both places,Scythians,or Cimmerians or who know what people they were.
Or maybe even Norse people brought that R1A1 there.
Since there is no Central Asia in Norse on autosomal DNA tests,but I think in Central Asian people there is autosomal DNA that can be linked with IE people.

So I think what Alan said there can be actually verified.

Alan
06-01-14, 15:44
Now since it is about these things,what are you thinking about this study,of David Faux?
He is suggesting Norse R1A1 is rather Central Asian in origins.
http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf
However,I think that this document shows that there is resemblance between Central Asian R1A1 and Norse R1A1,but we can not conclude that Turkic or other Asian people brought that R1A1 there .
Maybe some Indo Europeans brought this R1A1 in both places,Scythians,or Cimmerians or who know what people they were.
Or maybe even Norse people brought that R1A1 there.
Since there is no Central Asia in Norse on autosomal DNA tests,but I think in Central Asian people there is autosomal DNA that can be linked with IE people.

So I think what Alan said there can be actually verified.

It is common sense that R1a1 in Europe did come from somewhere else, Central Asian as possible place of origin is also a possibility.

But than this doesn't have much to do with Turkic migrations because back than they likely didn't exist and Central Asia was widely inhabidet by Indo European tribes.

And this is the point. Caucasian contribution to Mongols or Turkic tribes is predominantly about the male (not female) lineage. So much to the rape story.

Gurka atla
10-01-14, 15:45
The funny part is on y/mt DNA maps it appears much more like the Indo European influx came from the paternal side. He just rhymes things together.

R1a is only a marker. In many burials in western siberia with part Mongoloid males with R1a but women who are complete europoid.

Craniological studies of samples from the Pazyryk burials revealed the presence of both Mongoloid and Caucasoid components in this population.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_burials#cite_note-6)quoting G. F. Debets on the physical characteristics of the population in the Pazyryk kurgans, records a mixed population. The men would seem to be part Mongoloid and the women Europoid.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk_burials#cite_note-7)

Gurka atla
10-01-14, 15:56
It is common sense that R1a1 in Europe did come from somewhere else, Central Asian as possible place of origin is also a possibility.

But than this doesn't have much to do with Turkic migrations because back than they likely didn't exist and Central Asia was widely inhabidet by Indo European tribes.

And this is the point. Caucasian contribution to Mongols or Turkic tribes is predominantly about the male (not female) lineage. So much to the rape story.


This is because you don't understand.

1. Mongolian male DNA is 3 times more common in Central Asia than Mongolians females. So rape do exist but it's not only Caucasoid females because central Asia already had both Caucasoid and Caucasoid/Mongoloid


2. The Mongoloid DNA in Central Asians before were from Turkic/Siberians not from Mongolians and Siberian mtDNA is 3 times more common in Central Asian than males.


3. You're absolutely wrong about Caucasian contribution is predominately males in Mongols


Mongolians Caucasian female DNA 13.45% + male 8%
Buryats Caucasian female DNA 15.7% + male 6%
Kalmyk Caucasian female DNA 23.6% + male 9%

http://i39.tinypic.com/1zo8bp4.jpg

Gurka atla
10-01-14, 16:15
on the contrary men and women are looking in same fenotype. also you couldn't make a conclusion with olny one picture which is eems very relative.


Only 2 women from that picture look Mongoloid where as all the men in that picture look Mongoloid. It is not rare for Turkic intermarriages. Ussually Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Karakalpak men (even non-Turkic Korean men) prefer to marry Caucasoid types women of poorer parts of Central Asia.


It's true. Mongoloid types Turkic men prefer of more Caucasoid type Turkic female because they feel inferior of the way their own eyes and nose look so by marrying more Caucasoid type women they will feel better about their own disadvantaged facial features.



http://c.ask.nate.com/imgs/qrsi.php/6150565/8230374/0/2/A/%EC%9E%90%EB%B0%80%EB%9D%BC%EB%82%A8%EC%9E%90%EC%B 9%9C%EA%B5%AC2.jpg



http://pds.joinsmsn.com/news/component/htmlphoto_mmdata/2010/09/18/htm_2010091812551802010000020107003ca-001.jpg
http://ibulgyo.com/news/photo/201104/100876_36643.jpg
http://cfile213.uf.daum.net/image/1922B51A4B3F61FB4A079F

Alan
10-01-14, 16:28
This is because you don't understand.

1. Mongolian male DNA is 3 times more common in Central Asia than Mongolians females. So rape do exist but it's not only Caucasoid females because central Asia already had both Caucasoid and Caucasoid/Mongoloid


2. The Mongoloid DNA in Central Asians before were from Turkic/Siberians not from Mongolians and Siberian mtDNA is 3 times more common in Central Asian than males.


3. You're absolutely wrong about Caucasian contribution is predominately males in Mongols


Mongolians Caucasian female DNA 13.45% + male 8%
Buryats Caucasian female DNA 15.7% + male 6%
Kalmyk Caucasian female DNA 23.6% + male 9%

http://i39.tinypic.com/1zo8bp4.jpg

I think you don't understand your own chart, where ever it might be from. Tatars 81%, Turkmens 83%, Tajik 85%, Uzbek 70%, Kyrgyz 70% (I don't believe the Kazakh once, it must be wrong).
Are you trol ling.

Oh now I see, you claim Mongols belonged to Turkic DNA. You must be one of those Guys who believe everything from Mongols to Scythians were Turkic :lol:

By the way you expert, when Mongols were already 50/50 West and East Eurasian mixed who brought that West Eurasian genes to them and why does the East Eurasian dominates in them today :lol:

Gurka atla
10-01-14, 17:06
I think you don't understand your own chart, where ever it might be from. Tatars 81%, Turkmens 83%, Tajik 85%, Uzbek 70%, Kyrgyz 70% (I don't believe the Kazakh once, it must be wrong).
Are you ********.

Oh now I see, you claim Mongols belonged to Turkic DNA. You must be one of those Guys who believe everything from Mongols to Scythians were Turkic :lol:

By the way you expert, when Mongols were already 50/50 West and East Eurasian mixed who brought that West Eurasian genes to them and why does the East Eurasian dominates in them today :lol:


I understand very well. What you don't understand is that most of the maternal mongoloid DNA in central Asians were from Turkic or pre-Turkic where as most of the Mongoloid Y-DNA is Mongolian males.

Turkic people were already mixed. They had 50% Caucasoid Y-DNA and 30% Caucasoid mtDNA so when they mixed with the central Asian Caucasoids they contributed more Mongoloid mtDNA than came the Mongol invasion who mixed with both both Caucasoid women and Caucasoid/Mongoloid women.


I don't know what you're talking about man because Mongols have never been 50/50 West/East mixed. They were more like 83- 97% Mongoloid.

The Kazakh is not wrong. East and Central Kazakhstan are predominately Mongoloid Y-DNA where as western Kazakhstan are roughtly 50/50

Predominately Mongoloid males with Predominately Caucasoid females= Hazara, Crimean Tatars, Uzbek Afghan, Turkmen Afghan, Kazakhs, Mongolians, Buryats, Kamlyks



Kyrgyz was 70% Caucasoid Y-DNA in one study but in another study shows their Caucasoid Y-DNA to be only 35%. Their haplogroup R1a is only 63% in one district but in other areas Caucasoid mtDNA reaches 42% where as Caucasoid Y-DNA is 47%.


For instance, 63% of modern Kyrgyz men of Jumgal District (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumgal_District)[26] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-26) shareHaplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a1_(Y-DNA)) with Ishkashimis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishkashimi_language) (68%),[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-stanford-24) Tajiks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81jik_people) of Panjikent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjikent)[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-centralasialandscape-27) (64%, three times more than other Tajiks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%81jik_people)[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-28)), Pashtuns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtun_people) (51%),[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-29) andBartangis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartangi) (40%).[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-stanford-24)[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-30) Low diversity of Kyrgyz R1a1 indicates a founder effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect) within the historical period.[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-centralasialandscape-27) Haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA) is often believed to be a marker of the Proto-Indo-European language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language) speakers.[24] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-stanford-24)[27] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-centralasialandscape-27)[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-31)[32] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-32) Other groups of Kyrgyz show considerably lower haplogroup R (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)) frequencies and almost lack haplogroup N (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_N_(Y-DNA)).[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-33)
In a maternal mtDNA study, West Eurasian DNA ranges from 27% to 42.6% in the Kyrgyz.[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyrgyz_people#cite_note-34)

Alan
10-01-14, 22:16
didn't knew that the word "Trol ling" is being censored here. it almost looks like I threw a big insult at him :D

Alpakut
29-10-15, 18:06
To meet the Scythian-Ossetian-Iranian theory and meet the blondish genetic phenotype, the linguistic Brahmins, Indo-Aryans, and Iranians had to co-exist for long and frequent periods with either Finnish North Eurasian blonds, or with a certain group of Papuan/Melanesian blonds, and then lose their genetic heritage stepwise upon reaching the end of their migration. Such a fastidious scenario can exist only in theScythian-Ossetian-Iranian hoax and folk tales.

Yetos
29-10-15, 23:53
İsolated villiages in central anatolia look white most them have green eyes and dar brown skin with blue eyes. Some villiages look pamirid they killed and raped million peopke :(((

do you you mean the old Γαλατεια? galateia, Gauls of minor Asia?