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View Full Version : Chess and Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon connection



nordicwarrior
16-09-13, 05:28
Haven't posted as much lately, please excuse my sparse commentary... but I figure it's time to spice things up again. Anyone else notice a connection between world class chess figures and "more primitive" or maybe more masculine facial features? By this I mean a pronounced brow ridge, broader jaw, thicker facial hair, etc. In short a more Neanderthal orientation? Some examples would be Bobby Fischer and Garry Kasparov. Also of more recent note (and even higher rating dominance on the all time ELO list) would be Magnus Carlsen. I would guess that these fellows would all be members of paternal haplogroups I or J. What says you?

nordicwarrior
16-09-13, 05:38
More specifically, I imagine Kasparov to be a member of J2 or J1, Magnus would be most likely an I1 (from Norway), and Fischer would be most obviously J2 or J1 too... but my gut tells me he is a member of hg. I. This is haplogroup assignment is utter speculation and is in no way meant to be taken as fact, but the Neanderthal/hyper-masculine aspect connecting these fighting geniuses can't be ignored.

LeBrok
16-09-13, 06:16
All we need to do is to find a chessboard in one of the caves to have the proof. ;)

Fire Haired
17-09-13, 03:22
I hope u dont actulley think they are part Neanderthal. I understand the whole skull shape thing and i have seen people were it seems they have more Neanderthal features. But it is impossible their is anyone in the world that is like 10% Neanderthal. The reason is really no one is unique over thousands of years we are all related if u went back to 5,000bc u would have thousands of ancestors of thousands of the same ancestors as someone else. If ur apart of any major human families ur not anymore Neanderthal than someone else in that family i hope u get what i am saying. LIke with the Smartians. Applechian families. Muslims, han chinese people marry people in thier tribe and after thousands of years everyone is related and has basically the same genetics. Why would there be one random person who is 50% Neanderthal if u say one whie person has alot of Neanderthal u would have to say there is alot of Neanderthal blood in the whole Caucasian race Europe, mid east, north Africa.

So i don't think there is is like one special guy out there who is half Neanderthal. And what is Neanderthal anyways just a bunch of human like Archiec skulls found in Europe and the middle east that existed from about 600,000-30,000ybp. How do we know how their connected. If u look at a African Americans skull and compare it to a European americans skull it takes a while to see the differnce if it was a broken up fossil it very hard. and Europeans and sub sahran African ancestry has been seperated for probably over 100,000 years. But look at the huge difference u see in diff Neanderthal skulls i would guess they looked extremley diff from each other way more than white and black people. They probably had been seperated for well over 100,000 years we might be talking about diff breds or species that we are putting all under Neanderthal.

So i don't like those Neanderthal reconstructions. I don't know the full story of the red hair, pale, freckled neanderthals they found in i think Spain from 50,000ybp but no way does that represent all of the archaic human remains in Europe and Asia from 600,000-30,000ybp. THeir facial features would be so diff African american and european american was not agood example because u could tell the diff pretty quickley in how wide the nose's are and how thin the forheads are. But compare European to Papue New gunnien it is very hard to tell the differnce but look how diff they are on the outside

nordicwarrior
17-09-13, 06:19
I agree with most of what you are saying. A few Europeans or even Asians MIGHT peak at about 4% Neanderthal admixture (which isn't all that much really), but I find it interesting that the small group representing the most elite chess players of all time do seem to have a stronger than average Neanderthal bearing. So their 3% or even 4% Neanderthal genetic code is being expressed in full effect. Only an observation of mine... nothing more.

Sile
17-09-13, 12:08
I like Veselin Topalov ( Bulgarian ) currently. And before that, it was Rafael Vaganian . I learned the Trompovski opening from Rafael's games and won many games because of it.

I enjoyed their unorthodox styles.

Fire Haired
17-09-13, 23:05
I agree with most of what you are saying. A few Europeans or even Asians MIGHT peak at about 4% Neanderthal admixture (which isn't all that much really), but I find it interesting that the small group representing the most elite chess players of all time do seem to have a stronger than average Neanderthal bearing. So their 3% or even 4% Neanderthal genetic code is being expressed in full effect. Only an observation of mine... nothing more.

I dis agree i dont know the specifics of that Neanderthal admixture thing and it would ot change physical features. There is a Caucasian skull shape body build body hair facial hair so those chess players who are caucasin if they had neanderthal fcail features or whatever it would look diff. It is hard to explain but no way does anyone have neanderthal features. Who were the Neaderthals anyways they are just remains of archiac humans in Europe and mid east from 600,000-30,000ybp so many of them look so diff way more than a European skull to a papue new gunie. I dont know from where and when but i guess they have some DNA from archiac humans in Europe. They just give the name Neanderthal to all of them i bet they were all realted somehow but probably loosely and could have split while in Africa. Look how diff a Caucasin(European, mid eastern, north african) looks from a papaue new gunie person but their skull shapes and skelton's are nearlly identical and if their fossils extremely hard to tell the difference. Who knows what certian neanderthal remains looked like.

Did u get what i was saying before no one is unqiue Genetically. If ur Caucasin ur Caucasin thats it u have as much neanderthal as anyother Caucasin. It is hard to explain.

nordicwarrior
18-09-13, 04:28
I've been known to throw out 1. f4 (Bird) in a tourney to seize the unorthodox opening and to catch my opponent off guard. Now I'm a dedicated King's Indian proponent while playing white or black. Never was a huge fan of Topalov though... probably because he reminded me of an accountant. I think Magnus is the best human kind will produce for quite some time. He is a fierce grinder. Side note, I saw the other day that computers are now able to make positional sacs in the opening that haven't been refuted (with payback over nine moves later)... this is a new and fascinating trend.

Sile
18-09-13, 12:03
I've been known to throw out 1. f4 (Bird) in a tourney to seize the unorthodox opening and to catch my opponent off guard. Now I'm a dedicated King's Indian proponent while playing white or black. Never was a huge fan of Topalov though... probably because he reminded me of an accountant. I think Magnus is the best human kind will produce for quite some time. He is a fierce grinder. Side note, I saw the other day that computers are now able to make positional sacs in the opening that haven't been refuted (with payback over nine moves later)... this is a new and fascinating trend.

The very first Australian Grandmaster, Ian Rogers used to play the "bird" in our club, Heidelberg. He played it also to put players off their game, then again he could beat all by playing blindfold. ( I saw him playing against 7 players at same time blindfolded ...and beat us all).

I disliked the kings-indian, I always avoided it, but enjoyed the nimzo-indian. but as black I liked the Caro-Kahn or Pirc.

Magnus is a grinder, he wins by grinding miniscule advantages

nordicwarrior
19-09-13, 06:04
I have won a blindfolded game too. (Of course it was an unranked individual and a rather short contest, and I doubt I could pull it off today-- but hey I get to claim it!) I might be able to pull of a scholar's mate today. And yes the Pirc makes for some intense battles.

oreo_cookie
05-10-13, 03:03
I think it may be a coincidence. Some of the best chess players I know are Jewish and Asian.

Sile
05-10-13, 03:06
I think it may be a coincidence. Some of the best chess players I know are Jewish and Asian.

being in Chess or many many many years, I never came across a decent opponent who was Jewish or asian player...........and I am an average player

oreo_cookie
05-10-13, 17:02
being in Chess or many many many years, I never came across a decent opponent who was Jewish or asian player...........and I am an average player

Seriously? I am surprised! The chess club in my high school was almost all Asians and Jews.

oreo_cookie
20-11-13, 21:59
Bobby Fischer.