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I'd say that haplogroup I in general is Native European. The Grevitan Culture might have brought up Haplogroup I as haplogroup IJ and the J evolved out of the equation after generations and according to this link the most advanced information there is is that I2a2B came from Central Europe. Sources: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml http://www.clanstrachan.org/freespace/I_info.htmDo Greeks with I2a2b descend from Slavic invaders or is it a native haplogroup?
Do Greeks with I2a2b descend from Slavic invaders or is it a native haplogroup?
This question actually has multiple dimensions to it, and the answer, based on what we know, could be "neither" (as Maciamo posits), "Slavic," or even "both." Let me explain.
Haplogroup I as a whole is often associated with an introduction to Europe via Gravettian culture. Although in no way proven, this hypothesis fits the molecular diversity and phylogenetic patterns of Haplogroup I well. The region of modern Greece seems to have a spotty connection to the Gravettian, making it a possibility that an ancestor of the modern Greek Haplogroup I passed through Greece a long time ago. It's also possible that Greece was bypassed, so it's not clear if it's "native" in that sense.
On the other hand, the specific Haplogroup I subclade most common in Greece ("I2a-Din") is a rather young subclade with its closest cousins to the west, its most ancient known branch in Poland, the greatest diversity of its largest group around Ukraine, and its highest frequency in South Slavic countries. All of these point to a relatively recent introduction from north of Greece, and before that from west of that. Many (Verenich, Nordtvedt, etc.) have pointed out that this corresponds well with the Slavs, and I'm inclined to agree that that is the best match, although Maciamo and others have given reasonable arguments for another population or migration. Either way, though, it doesn't look "native" Greek from this perspective, leading to the question of: how did it get to its current frequency in Greece? I think the easiest explanation is as Maciamo says: "progressive shift from neighbouring populations." Keep in mind that Greece was for many years part of the same political unit as its South Slavic neighbors, which have I2a-Din in extreme concentrations. Introduction into Greece was inevitable.
So, is it native? Maybe, in a sense. Is it Slavic? Quite possibly, although it's also possible that it is not.
There is something suspicious about this haplogroup. For starters, it seems to be in as high percentages in Western Turkey, Crete and Cyprus as it is in Greece (around 8%). Are we to assume that I2a in Western Turkey, Crete and Cyprus is distributed there exclusively during Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman periods? It seems unlikely that these amounts could have spread so easily over the Mediterranean. Also, I2a seems to be present in Southern Italy as well at around 3.5 %. If we would assume that some of it has been brought there by Ancient Greek colonizers, then we can say that the Ancient Greeks had it at around 3,5 to 6%. Which is not very far off from the Greek mainland, Crete, Cyprus and Western Turkey.
I would say that I2a is an old Balkanic haplogroup which was already spread in Ancient Greece, but may have increased over time.
It would be interesting to see to what extent Pontian Greeks have this haplogroup in them. Since they, like Cypriot Greeks, lived in a region relatively far away from Greece.
For starters, it seems to be in as high percentages in Western Turkey, Crete and Cyprus as it is in Greece (around 8%).
Are you sure you have the subclades right here? I don't have a study handy for Turkey or Cyprus, but per King 2007, "the variety of haplogroup I in Crete is I2-M438* rather than I2a-P37 which predominates in the Balkans." Specifically, they give 5.7% for I2-M438* and 1.6% for I2a-P37. That means that Crete has nowhere near the I2a-Din levels of mainland Greece; more like less than a quarter of it. Although Cretan participation in online DNA projects is rare, the few samples we have indicate that the more refined subclade of their "I2-M438*" is mainly I2c-B L596*. Turkey as a whole has higher I2c-B L596* than I2a-Din as well IIRC.
Pretty much you summed it up.Sparkey, I would like to support your point of view with some historical facts:
1. Vast teritory of what is now Greece was in 7th century settled with various slavic tribes. It is clearly visible in following map:
View attachment 6049
2. Some of them have gone so south to Peloponesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melingoi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezeritai
It very well corespond, together with Tessaly and Macedonia with nowadays distribution of haplogroup I2 M423 Dinaric in Greece
3. Slavic character of that specific branch of haplogroup I (I2 M423 Dinaric) is so logical that I don't see a single argument opposite. Definitely I can not understand claims that I2 M423 Dinaric is Dacian, Thracian and Illyrian, since the percentage of this branch in Italy is less than 0,5 % and in rest Europe west of Rhine and Alps less than that. If some population have lived in Roman Empire in common state with the residents of Italy for so long, as it is case for Illyrians, don't you think that they should leave some more than 0,5 % percent of genetic trace in Italy, especially if we know that connection of two coastes of Adriatic were much more intensive in Roman times than it was case in the Middle Ages.
4. There is no such clear marker for one haplogroup and population as it is case with I2 M423 Dinaric and Slavs.
Just compare following two maps:
and
Pretty much you summed it up.
I2a1b is clearly connected with Slavic invasion and isn't native in Balkans.
Its Slavic. In north of Greece the population is either slav (speaking today's version of Macedonian), or Albanian, or Bullgarian in Thracian region. I2a is also high in southern Albania, and is a result of Bullgarian settlements in 8th and 9th centuary. The region of Epirus is an Albanian orthodox comunity land which was given by 19th centuary great powers to please Greece. So geneticaly its population is Albanian. What appears to be regional is I2b. Probably 6% in southern Albania. German historian Fallmerayer in 19th centuary made it clear that today's Greeks are a melange of Albanians, Turks, Slavs and Hellens. Real Hellens reside in Crete and Islands. They are very low in I2a. The amount they have is a result a recent migrations from continental Greece to the Islands. Had Greeks been a homogenous people they would look like albanians in Kosovo and Albania. Albania proper differ a bit in I2a which as I mentioned before are slavic settlements,.
Its Slavic. In north of Greece the population is either slav (speaking today's version of Macedonian), or Albanian, or Bullgarian in Thracian region. I2a is also high in southern Albania, and is a result of Bullgarian settlements in 8th and 9th centuary. The region of Epirus is an Albanian orthodox comunity land which was given by 19th centuary great powers to please Greece. So geneticaly its population is Albanian. What appears to be regional is I2b. Probably 6% in southern Albania. German historian Fallmerayer in 19th centuary made it clear that today's Greeks are a melange of Albanians, Turks, Slavs and Hellens. Real Hellens reside in Crete and Islands. They are very low in I2a. The amount they have is a result a recent migrations from continental Greece to the Islands. Had Greeks been a homogenous people they would look like albanians in Kosovo and Albania. Albania proper differ a bit in I2a which as I mentioned before are slavic settlements,.
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