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Maciamo
19-10-13, 23:09
Here is the new map of mt-haplogroup I.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-I-map.png

It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to the whole of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution.

Subclades

- I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1b has been found in Sweden, Poland and Kurdistan. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade. IMHO, The I1 branch is of Balto-Slavic origin and linked to Y-haplogroup R1a. The Ashkenazi subclade may either be Levite (who are mostly R1a) or the result of intermarriages with Central Europeans.

- I2 is found in most of northern Europe, but also in the Caucasus and in Siberia. Some subclades could be Indo-European.

- I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany). Probably associated with the Proto-Italo-Celtic branch of the Indo-Europeans.

- I4a is scattered around all Europe, but is also found around the Black Sea, the North Caucasus, Iran and Siberia. It is probably Indo-European.

- I5a is found in most of southern and central Europe, but also in Turkey and the Arabian peninsula. It was either brought by Neolithic farmers to Europe, or brought by Indo-Europeans to the Middle East.

- I6 has been observed in Turkey and Sicily.

Incidence

The highest frequency of I observed to date is on the island of Krk on the north coast of Croatia, for which Pericic et al. (2005) reported 11.3% (n=133).

The highest frequencies are otherwise found among the Mordovians (5.9%) in the Volga-Ural, the Dargins (6.4%), Chechen-Ingush (5.7%) and Kumyks (5.3%) in the northeastern Caucasus, in Latvia (4.6%) and Finland (4.2%), in England (4%), Scotland (4.1%, but 6.5% in the Western Isles), West Ireland (5.5%), Cornwall (5.8%), Finistère (4.9%), Provence (Var department 5.4%), Lombardy (5.1%), the Latium (4.2%), and parts of Sicily (8.6% in Caccamo, 7.6% in Piazza Armerina, 7.1% in Ragusa).

Note also the oddly elevated percentages of I among the Kurds (3.4%) and the Druzes (3.4%), who once again distinguish themselves from their neighbours.

Unfortunately I don't have any data on the subclades in Egypt and Southwest Asia. I is also found around 1-2% in Central Asia, confirming the possibility of an Indo-European connection, but I also have no data on the subclades.

An Indo-European link

I have noted before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/25613-Identifying-the-original-Indo-European-mtDNA-from-isolated-settlements) that there was a link between mtDNA I and the diffusion of R1a and R1b in North and Central Asia. Haplogroup I (including about half of I1) has been found at lower frequencies among the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Kyrgyz, Tajiks, Uyghurs, Altai tribes, Xiongnu, Buryats, Mongolians and Tuva, among others. These populations all have in common the presence of haplogroup R1a and often also R1b. Haplogroup I1 has also been found on many sites from the Unetice culture, which yielded both Y-DNA R1a and R1b, as well as on Corded Ware sites, which are linked to R1a.


UPDATE: a detailed page about the origins, history, distribution and subclades of haplogroup I is now available here (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I_mtDNA.shtml).

Sile
20-10-13, 00:08
Here is the new map of mt-haplogroup I.

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/mtDNA-I-map.png

It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to all of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution. For example:

- I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade.

- I2 is found in most of northern Europe, but also in the Caucasus.

- I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany).

- I4a is scattered around all Europe.

- I5a is found in most of southern and central Europe, but also in Turkey and the Arabian peninsula, which could give it a Neolithic origin.

- I6 has been observed in Turkey and Sicily.

What is the Lombard one in Northern Italy ....I3 ?

Maciamo
20-10-13, 11:09
What is the Lombard one in Northern Italy ....I3 ?

I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.

Sile
20-10-13, 11:23
I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.

Ok

FTDNA North-Italy has only 1 x I mtdna from Verona ...............close enough to Lombardy although Verona is in Veneto

FTDNA AlpGen has zero

Interesting to find out if these are lombard migrational wives

Sile
02-11-13, 20:59
I don't know. The frequency for Lombardy is from Achilli et al. 2007, but subclades aren't specified. No hg I member from northern Italy at FTDNA. Brisighelli et al. 2012 tested I subclades, but most Italians are I* (or subclade undetermined). The only ones that were not I* were two I5 members from Trentino-South Tyrol and two I1a from Calabria and Apulia.

Your mtdna maps for I and X show that Lombardy is dominant for these 2 markers, is there a migrational path from anywhere to Lombardy?

Ike
02-11-13, 23:10
Why do you people always repost the maps in your posts...

Angela
02-11-13, 23:31
Maciamo, does this map include the Fernandes et al 2012 data?
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297%2811%2900545-3

Angela
02-11-13, 23:33
Why do you people always repost the maps in your posts...

So people don't have to scroll all the way back to the first post in order to refresh their recollection? I happen to find that very annoying, by the way...lol.

Just for you, though, I didn't repost the map above! :)

Angela
02-11-13, 23:47
Your mtdna maps for I and X show that Lombardy is dominant for these 2 markers, is there a migrational path from anywhere to Lombardy?

Sile, this is what Fernandes et al has to say...
Haplogroup I, which is by far the most frequent clade within N1, dates to ∼25 ka ago and is overall most frequent in Europe (Figure 2 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929711005453#fig2)A), but the facts that it has a frequency peak in the Gulf region and that its highest diversity values are in the Gulf, Anatolia, and southeast Europe suggest that its origin is most likely in the Near East and/or Arabia (Figures S4 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929711005453#app2)A and S5 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929711005453#app2)A). A subhaplogroup of I5a shows a recent tight founder effect ∼2 ka ago on Soqotra, an island that is found in the Gulf of Aden and which was settled during the Holocene.27 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929711005453#bib27) I4 and I2′I3, dating to 10–15 ka ago, are both predominantly European. In the HVS-I founder analysis, haplogroup I indicates a primarily Late Glacial expansion, but the I1a subclade peaks in the Neolithic period at ∼6 ka ago under both founder analysis criteria. This pattern is confirmed by the complete sequence tree and again indicates expansion from a probable Near Eastern source dating to ∼5 ka ago.

So, according to them, I1a has a peak 4,000 B.C, but the trail for mtDNA I is definitely from the Near East. So, from Arabia up into the Levant and Anatolia, then with the Neolithic it goes into Europe. From there, who knows...some could have gone into Eastern Europe and then across with the Indo-Europeans if you follow that theory, but it could have spread from the Balkans as well.

Some "I" could be late "glacial" as they say...

MtDNA "X", according to them, is also from the "Arabian Cradle" but has been in Europe a long time.

I'll take a look at Behar and see what his estimates are...

Angela
02-11-13, 23:56
Btw, this is just out. Tests were done on eight Egyptian mummies. They were radiocarbon dated and placed within a time period between the Third Intermediate and the Graeco-Roman times (806 BC–124 AD).

http://tobias-lib.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2013/6993/

They got one complete mitochondrial sequence...definitely I2a.

Does anyone know the precise date for this one?

Maciamo
03-11-13, 20:01
Maciamo, does this map include the Fernandes et al 2012 data?
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/abstract/S0002-9297%2811%2900545-3

No, not yet.

MOESAN
03-11-13, 20:22
just a bet about very scarce mt HGs not too reliable: I3 could very fit with proto-gaelic-celtic and ligurian tribes (look at W-Ireland, France, Portugal, N-Italy but other Italy places as Sicily- for the pleasure only!

Angela
03-11-13, 22:20
The mtDNA I2 Egyptian mummy is dated to 402-385 BC, which is into the Hellenic period. I suppose that means it could be "non-local". However, I don't know how common it was at that point for the Hellenes to marry into the native population and adopt their religious beliefs. Certainly, at the level of the royal family, the trappings of the religion were adopted, as was the practice of sibling marriage, although Cleopatra, according to the latest biography I've read, was the first of her family to actually speak Egyptian. Also, in her time, the city of Alexandria was still divided into roughly three quarters: the Egyptian quarter, the Hellene quarter, and the Jewish quarter, each with their own system of governance, and the three groups regularly rioted against one another.

On the other hand, the probable origin of mtDNA "I" is nearby, and the age attributed to I2 by Behar is 6386.9 +/- 2448.5, so 5500 B.C., approximately, so I don't see why it couldn't be "local" in origin. Fernandes is giving a date of 10,000-15,000 (8,000-13, 000 B.C.) for the upstream I2'I3, and Behar dates it to 13,000 years ago, so that seems roughly comparable.

Did anyone else think that once we got ancient mtDNA and yDNA results things would clear up? Not yet...not for me, lol.

Ike
04-11-13, 04:02
Not enough results. We should all get shovels and start digging some human bones in our backyards :)

Jackson
04-11-13, 23:57
Not enough results. We should all get shovels and start digging some human bones in our backyards :)

Noo disastrous, needs to be handled carefully by archaeologists and specialists!

lluis
19-11-13, 21:28
It's impossible to attribute an ethnic origin to the whole of haplogroup I as it is divided in 6 main branches and many subclades, which have a very different geographic distribution.

Subclades

- I1a is found in Central and Eastern Europe, in the Caucasus and in the British isles. I1a1a seem to be found almost exclusively among the Finns. I1b has been found in Sweden, Poland and Kurdistan. I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade. IMHO, The I1 branch is of Balto-Slavic origin and linked to Y-haplogroup R1a. The Ashkenazi subclade may either be Levite (who are mostly R1a) or the result of intermarriages with Central Europeans.




Please, can you explain me why do you said I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade? There are some people who are I1c and Ashkenazi but there are others, as myself, that do not have any know maternal ancestor who were Ashkenazi.

In the FTDNA I project they name the I1c group as Ashkenazi clade but I don't know why. I have tried to find any clue but I've failed. I have asked a genetic scientific who as done the most cited papers on the founder effects in Jewish population and he has answered me that he had not studied this subclade.

I am very interested in this subject, so if you have any other information, please, share it with us.

Lluis.

Sile
19-11-13, 22:06
Please, can you explain me why do you said I1c is an Ashkenazi subclade? There are some people who are I1c and Ashkenazi but there are others, as myself, that do not have any know maternal ancestor who were Ashkenazi.

In the FTDNA I project they name the I1c group as Ashkenazi clade but I don't know why. I have tried to find any clue but I've failed. I have asked a genetic scientific who as done the most cited papers on the founder effects in Jewish population and he has answered me that he had not studied this subclade.

I am very interested in this subject, so if you have any other information, please, share it with us.

Lluis.

These names like ashkenazi, Germanic, Slavic, Berber etc are only used to advise people what the majority of that marker is. So your marker is in majority Ashkenazi, it could be only 20% , as the others are less percentage.
But since linguistic, nationalistic and other terms are all propaganda based and lies, then we need to live with it.

I do not know of any ancient device that could let ancient people know what marker they where and with that make them ashkenazi or not
IMO, geographic terms are far better and have far less issues than the nationalistic rubbish we hear

adamo
04-12-13, 14:12
"Mtdna I descended from mtdna N, whose descendants live in high frequencies in Northern Europe and northern Eurasia. I individuals used the near east as a "home base" of sorts, radiating from that region to populate much of the rest of the world. Today, members of I in the near east have older and more divergent lineages than those found in Northern Europe, indicating a greater time in the near east for those lineages to accumulate mutations. Therefore, early members of I likely moved north across the Caucasus, their lineages being carried into Europe for the first time during the middle upper Paleolithic. This wave of migration into Western Europe marked the appearance and spread of what archeologists call Aurignacian culture, which is distinguished by significant innovations in tool manufacture and invention; people began using a broader set of tool types, such as end-scrapers for preparing animal skins and tools for woodworking. In addition to stone, these modern humans used bone, ivory, antler, and shells to make tools. Jewelry, often an indicator of status, appears in Aurignacian culture as well; bracelets and pendants made of shells, teeth, ivory, and carved bone suggest the beginnings of a more complex social organization. Today, only about 10% of the mtdna lineages in Europe reflect the original early upper Paleolithic movements into the continent, and about 20% reflect more recent Neolithic movements. The rest of European mtdna, including the I lineage, arrived in Europe during the middle upper Paleolithic around 25,000 years ago. These lineages took part in the post-glacial expansions around 15,000 years ago as the ice sheets receded during the late upper Paleolithic".

HQ420832
05-03-14, 20:26
Hi,

My haplogorup is I3a1 ad my genbankid HQ420832 was used by Behar/FtDna to determine this subclade

You wrote "- I3 is found mostly in northwestern Europe (France, British Isles, and to a lower extent Italy and West Germany). Probably associated with the Proto-Italo-Celtic branch of the Indo-Europeans."

Do we have any frequencies of I3 in Europe ?


Regards

HQ420832
04-03-15, 20:54
An I3a was found in Esperstedt, Germany in an early Bronze age burial - Unetice culture. ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe")

Voyager
10-06-16, 09:54
An I3a was found in Esperstedt, Germany in an early Bronze age burial - Unetice culture. ("Massive migration from the steppe is a source for Indo-European languages in Europe")
I3a mt-Hg was also found in Russia Yamnaya aDNA (3000 BC), It's also my Mt-Hg. I am rather interested in it's origins. It's pretty strange to have so many ancient DNA having this mt-Hg that is not so spread nowadays. Explanations?
To my understanding, Haplogroup I is a descendant of N1, haplogroup found in West Eurasia.