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English Lad
05-11-13, 03:12
Hi there,

I recently had an FTDNA family finder done, aswell as the YDNA12 and MTDNA Plus, but so far have only received my Family finder results.
I also, a few months back had a DNA test done with 23andme, what's interesting is the population references, as they're quite different.



Continent (Subcontinent)
Population
Percentage
Margin of Error


Europe (Western European)
Orcadian
93.73%
±1.91%


Middle East
Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite
6.27%
±1.91%




And here's my 23andme results,

Paternal = R1a1a
Maternal = W1

99.6 European,

87.3% North European
0.7% South European
< 0.1% East European
11.5% Nonspecific European

0.1% North African,

0.3% unassigned.

100% me :).



So, that's that. I'm hoping to have some expert advice on this, as I'm quite the novice. But which one should I be believing? Who's more accurate?

Apparently the FTDNA results are quite common among British men... Not sure why, but something to do with the way FTDNA reference their populations...


Anyhow, thanks!

Jackson
05-11-13, 04:07
I think that's fairly normal. You should upload your data to GEDmatch, then you can use the admixture calculators which are very helpful.

adamo
05-11-13, 06:37
Jackson, how is it normal for an Englishman to have Slavic y-DNA and mtdna W? It's very rare.

adamo
05-11-13, 06:40
Unless he's from the Orkney islands where R1a is 20%; he represents about 1-5% of English men being R1a. All R1a in the British isles is linked to Viking presence.

Sile
05-11-13, 06:45
Hi there,

I recently had an FTDNA family finder done, aswell as the YDNA12 and MTDNA Plus, but so far have only received my Family finder results.
I also, a few months back had a DNA test done with 23andme, what's interesting is the population references, as they're quite different.



Continent (Subcontinent)
Population
Percentage
Margin of Error


Europe (Western European)
Orcadian
93.73%
±1.91%


Middle East
Palestinian, Adygei, Bedouin, Bedouin South, Druze, Iranian, Jewish, Mozabite
6.27%
±1.91%




And here's my 23andme results,

Paternal = R1a1a
Maternal = W1

99.6 European,

87.3% North European
0.7% South European
< 0.1% East European
11.5% Nonspecific European

0.1% North African,

0.3% unassigned.

100% me :).



So, that's that. I'm hoping to have some expert advice on this, as I'm quite the novice. But which one should I be believing? Who's more accurate?

Apparently the FTDNA results are quite common among British men... Not sure why, but something to do with the way FTDNA reference their populations...


Anyhow, thanks!

from each of your middle-east group, run a line to london and pinpoint a mark (for each ) at 93.73% of kms from each ME land ....that's where you are from...my guess either kent or netherlands

English Lad
05-11-13, 10:23
I think that's fairly normal. You should upload your data to GEDmatch, then you can use the admixture calculators which are very helpful.

I have recently finished uploading them, about an hour ago. Unfortunately it says the batching process hasn't been completed on my fTDNA and my 23andme says it's been only tokenized :(.


Unless he's from the Orkney islands where R1a is 20%; he represents about 1-5% of English men being R1a. All R1a in the British isles is linked to Viking presence.

Wow, that's interesting, I always thought Vikings were I1! Isn't R1a slavic? I guess that would prove the Viking-Slav relations were quite good back then lol.


from each of your middle-east group, run a line to london and pinpoint a mark (for each ) at 93.73% of kms from each ME land ....that's where you are from...my guess either kent or netherlands

I am from Kent, born, bred and that will be my Father's line. I haven't done my family tree, but I already know from my Grandfather the line in Kent goes too early 1800's ( probably further, just haven't researched it yet ), to a West ( my surname ) who was a Horse and Cart Driver. I'll still do as you say, it'll be interesting :)

Thank you!

adamo
05-11-13, 10:27
R1a is Slavic......but the R1a in the British isles is found there because Vikings brought it over....as both Norway and Sweden have 20-25% of both R1a and R1b. I1 is a Viking genetic marker correct, but the R1a in the British isles is due to Viking, not Slavic presence.

adamo
05-11-13, 10:28
And I'm gonna have to put a little dislike next to your comment as I sort of just ate you alive like a foetus, muy mmmuy mm

English Lad
05-11-13, 10:33
And I'm gonna have to put a little dislike next to your comment as I sort of just ate you alive like a foetus, muy mmmuy mm

Woah, i'm confused about that one?


R1a is Slavic......but the R1a in the British isles is found there because Vikings brought it over....as both Norway and Sweden have 20-25% of both R1a and R1b. I1 is a Viking genetic marker correct, but the R1a in the British isles is due to Viking, not Slavic presence.

Ah that's very interesting, what's the common opinion of how R1a entered Scandinavia, early migrations? Slaves taken from raids?

adamo
05-11-13, 10:34
No, Viking presence that's why R1a peaks in the north of Scotland on the orkney islands at 20%.

adamo
05-11-13, 10:35
The rest of the peninsula has 1-4% R1a, maybe a few 5% pockets.

English Lad
05-11-13, 10:37
Ah fair enough, it makes sense now. Thank you for your time :)

adamo
05-11-13, 10:37
I don't know what to say; R1a simply isn't present that westwards in Europe. The British isles have pretty much no R1a. Or W for that matter.

adamo
05-11-13, 10:39
Oddly enough, on your paternal side, it seems you would cluster closer to Russian, Polish, Slovenian; Slavic men.....you are very rare for an Englishman; you are just like Anderson cooper; one of those extremely rare Englishman positive for R1a1a (M17), a Slavic genetic marker within the greater indo-European group.

English Lad
05-11-13, 10:43
It threw me off, I was expecting something like YDNA - R1b and Mtdna H, or something. I look forward to my FTDNA results on my Haplogroups, see what it says with further SNP testing etc

adamo
05-11-13, 10:49
Your mtdna group is rare as well, not only in England but the world in general. Again; you seem to be the rarity among your peers although R1a is a European haplogroup as well; half of Russian men belong to it; and many Hungarian, Czech, Slovene etc. as well

Kardu
05-11-13, 12:06
R1a is Slavic? Sorry but it's a silly over-generalization... R1a (and its many subclades) appear among many various ethnic and linguistic groups: Turkic, Persian, Arab, peoples of the Caucasus etc.

adamo
05-11-13, 12:13
It arrived there later; with indo-European migrations from the Russian steppes

Kardu
05-11-13, 12:51
It arrived there later; with indo-European migrations from the Russian steppes

Are you saying that R1a subclade common among modern day Slavic speakers is older than R1a of Iranians? :)

ElHorsto
05-11-13, 13:32
Wow, that's interesting, I always thought Vikings were I1! Isn't R1a slavic? I guess that would prove the Viking-Slav relations were quite good back then lol.


If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

ElHorsto
05-11-13, 13:57
If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

Also the R1a presence in Scandinavia and Lappland is a hint towards a possible european paleolithic or mesolithic origin of some R1a.

Nobody1
05-11-13, 14:51
If your R1a is a slavic one, then it also could come from the Saxons, because slavs (Obotrites, Polabians) were part of their ancestral land in north Germany.
In general, northern Germany has ~30% R1a, hence I find it odd that actually so few englishman are R1a. Scandinavia has as much R1a which is apparently of non-slavic origin, so it is as twice as odd.

Doubtful;
That would imply that the Saxons had subjugated certain/several Polabian Slavs in order to have been a part of the migration and invasion of Britannia; But the subjugation of the Polabian Slavs occurred during the 12th cen AD and Britannia was already invaded and conquered by the Saxons by the mid 5th cen AD;

Gallic Chronicle - AD 441 / Chronicle of 452
HONORIUS XVI (410) -
Britanniae Saxonum incursione devastatae
The British provinces were devastated by an incursion of the Saxons
THEODOSIUS II XVIII/XVIIII (441) -
Britanniae, usque ad hoc tempus variis cladibus eventibusque latae in dicionem Saxon rediguntur
The British provinces, which to this time had suffered various defeats and misfortunes, are reduced to Saxon rule

The Saxons raided the channel as early as the 3rd cen AD and prob. also the coast of Britannia - hence the fortifications of the Saxon Shore - litus saxonicum in SE England;

Eutropius - Book IX
XXI During this period, Carausius, who, though of very mean birth, had gained extraordinary reputation by a course of active service in war, having received a commission in his post at Bononia, to clear the sea, which the Franks and Saxons infested, along the coast of Belgica and Armorica

English Lad
05-11-13, 15:16
This is still very interesting, I eagerly await my YDNA results from FTDNA. Although I assume it'll need upgrading from 12 markers to minimum 37. If R1a in Britain is assigned to predominantly Viking/ ( Germanic? ) settlement, it'll probably be Norman or Jutes, I guess.

ElHorsto
05-11-13, 15:26
Doubtful;
That would imply that the Saxons had subjugated certain/several Polabian Slavs in order to have been a part of the migration and invasion of Britannia; But the subjugation of the Polabian Slavs occurred during the 12th cen AD and Britannia was already invaded and conquered by the Saxons by the mid 5th cen AD;

Gallic Chronicle - AD 441 / Chronicle of 452
HONORIUS XVI (410) -
Britanniae Saxonum incursione devastatae
The British provinces were devastated by an incursion of the Saxons
THEODOSIUS II XVIII/XVIIII (441) -
Britanniae, usque ad hoc tempus variis cladibus eventibusque latae in dicionem Saxon rediguntur
The British provinces, which to this time had suffered various defeats and misfortunes, are reduced to Saxon rule

The Saxons raided the channel as early as the 3rd cen AD and prob. also the coast of Britannia - hence the fortifications of the Saxon Shore - litus saxonicum in SE England;

Eutropius - Book IX
XXI During this period, Carausius, who, though of very mean birth, had gained extraordinary reputation by a course of active service in war, having received a commission in his post at Bononia, to clear the sea, which the Franks and Saxons infested, along the coast of Belgica and Armorica

Of course you are right. But as a matter of small possibilities I recalled passages from an old book

Shore ,Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race, London 1906

page 86:

"The statement of Bede that the Rugini or Rugians were among the nations from whom the English were known to have descended was contemporary evidence of his own time."
...

page 87:

"The probability of some very early settlers in Britain having been Wends, and consequently that there was a Slavic element in the origin of the Old English race, is shown in another way...."

Fulltext:
http://archive.org/stream/originofanglosax00shoruoft/originofanglosax00shoruoft_djvu.txt

Granted, weak evidence.

Nobody1
05-11-13, 16:43
Of course you are right. But as a matter of small possibilities I recalled passages from an old book

Shore ,Origin of the Anglo-Saxon race, London 1906

page 86:
"The statement of Bede that the Rugini or Rugians were among the nations from whom the English were known to have descended was contemporary evidence of his own time."
...
page 87:

"The probability of some very early settlers in Britain having been Wends, and consequently that there was a Slavic element in the origin of the Old English race, is shown in another way...."

Fulltext:
http://archive.org/stream/originofanglosax00shoruoft/originofanglosax00shoruoft_djvu.txt

Granted, weak evidence.

Might not be that weak after all;
Although the book equates the Rugii with the Ranen; The Rugini of Bede were still essentially the Germanic Rugier; The Ranen (part of the Wilzen) were the ones that were Polabian Slav peoples - one of the reasons i think the Polabian Slavs had a strong East Germanic element next to Warnen and Winuler;

Bede - Book V/IX
Quarum in Germania plurimas noverat esse nationes, a quibus Angli vel Saxones, qui nunc Britanniam incolunt, genus et originem duxisse noscuntur. Unde hactenus a vicina gente Britonum corrupti Germani nuncupantur. Sunt autem Fresones, Rugini, Dani, Hunni, antiqui Saxones, Boructuarii.
---
many of which nations he knew there were in Germania, from whom the Angles or Saxons, who now inhabit Britain, are known to have derived their origin; for which reason they are still corruptly called Garmani by the neighboring nation of the Britons. Such are the Frisians, the Rugini, the Danes, the Huns, the old Saxons, and the Boructuari(Bricteri:Franks or Saxons)

It all depends of which R1a lineages exist in Britain today;
Maybe Polabian Slavs (Wenden) were a part of the Anglo-Saxon realm but i would doubt those to be the Rugini (Rugier) of Bede;

Jackson
05-11-13, 22:35
Well i was more talking about your autosomal results, but your lineages are pretty uncommon. If the R1a is the Scandinavian type it makes more sense, but if it's the Slavic type, that is pretty rare and interesting too. W is an odd one, i don't know much about it. R1a does peak fairly significantly in some areas of Britain, like Orkney, Shetland, parts of Scotland and parts of NW England, although in most places it's 1-5% (POBI found about 5% i think), although in Kent that is pretty unusual, probably an interesting story to it.

@ElHorsto, as far as i know much of the movement to Britain from Germany was prior to or contemporary with Slavic expansions in the area? Plus a lot of it was coastal, and R1a seems to be lower in coastal areas (and R1b-U106/L48 higher). So i'd have thought that the 6-12% from the Netherlands to Denmark would be more like actuality for most of those places at that time, and fits in with the other Y-DNA.

ElHorsto
05-11-13, 23:10
@ElHorsto, as far as i know much of the movement to Britain from Germany was prior to or contemporary with Slavic expansions in the area?


In short: yes.

The history of the peoples east of river Elbe is somewhat fuzzy. Zanipolo once showed here in this forum interesting maps of several R1a clades which neither matched slavic nor german settlement. He suggested these are the traces of the vandals, goths and bastarnae. It could be that east germanics were part of the slavic ethnogenesis. This could be a possibility to explain certain "slavic" ancestry, if necessary.



Plus a lot of it was coastal, and R1a seems to be lower in coastal areas (and R1b-U106/L48 higher). So i'd have thought that the 6-12% from the Netherlands to Denmark would be more like actuality for most of those places at that time, and fits in with the other Y-DNA.

Less R1a at coastal places? I don't know. You are right about Netherlands and Denmark, but north Germany is listed among the R1a rich regions similar to Norway. If I remember correctly the town of Rostock which is a coastal town is even a R1a hotspot with > 33% R1a. Münster in Westfalia (not coastal, but much more west and no slavic settlement recorded) also had surprisingly high R1a percentage (don't remember exactly but it was about the same percentage I think). I wonder whether Netherland's lower R1a rate is merely due to the Franks who came from the south.

English Lad
05-11-13, 23:33
Just got my MtDNA

Confirmed W.

mtDNA - Results


Haplogroup - W

Your Origin


Haplogroup W is derived from the N superhaplogroup, which dates to approximately 65,000 years ago. The origin of haplogroup W dates to approximately 25,000 years ago, and it is mainly found distributed in west Eurasia (or Europe). It is likely that individuals bearing this lineage participated in the expansion into the bulk of Europe following the Last Glacial Maximum. Future work, including obtaining more samples from central Asia, will further refine the historical distribution of this haplogroup and better determine the role it played in the peopling of Europe.
For us to identify a specific subclade of W and its ancient migration history, you will need to upgrade to the mtDNA Full Sequence test.



Now, I await YDNA results. This is very interesting...

Once I have received my YDNA, I'll consider upgrading for SNP testing and finding my subclades.

Jackson
05-11-13, 23:42
In short: yes.

The history of the peoples east of river Elbe is somewhat fuzzy. Zanipolo once showed here in this forum interesting maps of several R1a clades which neither matched slavic nor german settlement. He suggested these are the traces of the vandals, goths and bastarnae. It could be that east germanics were part of the slavic ethnogenesis. This could be a possibility to explain certain "slavic" ancestry, if necessary.



Less R1a at coastal places? I don't know. You are right about Netherlands and Denmark, but north Germany is listed among the R1a rich regions similar to Norway. If I remember correctly the town of Rostock which is a coastal town is even a R1a hotspot with > 33% R1a. Münster in Westfalia (not coastal, but much more west and no slavic settlement recorded) also had surprisingly high R1a percentage (don't remember exactly but it was about the same percentage I think). I wonder whether Netherland's lower R1a rate is merely due to the Franks who came from the south.

Well POBI did identify quite a large component that looks possibly Slavic in East Germany, although it has a significant presence in many other areas but not in the Netherlands, Denmark or north,north-west Germany. I remember in a study about the Flemish, R1a was quite common in inland areas but dropped very low (1% in one area i think) along the coast, while R1b-U106/L48 and I1 were much higher along the coastline. So it may be that you see it in one place and not in another as it perhaps follows to some extent the old division between more inland Germanic areas and the North Sea Coastline, seeing as Rostock is in the western Baltic and directly south of Sweden a high R1a result is pretty expected, and in areas of central Germany is it is also perhaps not so surprising given that this study has shown that in Flemish areas R1a drops off somewhat significantly compared to the southern parts of the North Sea where R1b increases.

I think there was a post about it on this forum somewhere.
http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(13)00101-4/abstract

This kind of fits in with the lower frequencies of R1a from the Netherlands to Denmark (6-12%), given that they are coastal north sea locations - even though it is just about Flanders, lower frequencies of R1a are seen in areas along the coast from Belgium to Denmark (although not in the Baltic). Just kinda makes sense to me that different areas within a cultural group have different genetic makeup, at least in Y-dna. Given that it's unlikely that there is a drastic change from 20-30% R1a to less than 10% along the Dutch border, it would seem more likely that it gradually decreases as one goes towards the coast, and R1b-U106 increases, which fits in with Flanders.




Frequencies of R1b-L48 in Flanders are as follows:
-17% in West Flanders
-12% in East Flanders
-11% in Belgian Brabant
-8% in Limburg


-I1 and I1c are 10-16% combined (strongest in the West and weakest in the East).
-R1a is low in most areas at (3-4%), however it is higher in the east (8%), and is very low in the north (1.5%) and on the coast (0.9%).
-R1a would have seemed to have come from the east and not the north or the coast.
-I1 is clearly coastal.
-U106 is much stronger in the north and the west and much more frequent than I1+R1a.
-Much of the Low Countries and neck of Jutland were U106 focused.
-In the typically Germanic trio of R1b-U106, I1 and R1a, U106 seems southern and I1 more coastal.
-One is led to beleive, with this data in addition to other data about U106 and it's neighbours that U106 has been closely associated with Germanic speakers for a long time.
-R1b-L48 is a clearly a coastal grouping of R1b-U106, at least in Flanders..

ElHorsto
06-11-13, 00:12
Well POBI did identify quite a large component that looks possibly Slavic in East Germany, although it has a significant presence in many other areas but not in the Netherlands, Denmark or north,north-west Germany. I remember in a study about the Flemish, R1a was quite common in inland areas but dropped very low (1% in one area i think) along the coast, while R1b-U106/L48 and I1 were much higher along the coastline. So it may be that you see it in one place and not in another as it perhaps follows to some extent the old division between more inland Germanic areas and the North Sea Coastline, seeing as Rostock is in the western Baltic and directly south of Sweden a high R1a result is pretty expected, and in areas of central Germany is it is also perhaps not so surprising given that this study has shown that in Flemish areas R1a drops off somewhat significantly compared to the southern parts of the North Sea where R1b increases.

I think there was a post about it on this forum somewhere.
http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(13)00101-4/abstract

This kind of fits in with the lower frequencies of R1a from the Netherlands to Denmark (6-12%), given that they are coastal north sea locations - even though it is just about Flanders, lower frequencies of R1a are seen in areas along the coast from Belgium to Denmark (although not in the Baltic). Just kinda makes sense to me that different areas within a cultural group have different genetic makeup, at least in Y-dna. Given that it's unlikely that there is a drastic change from 20-30% R1a to less than 10% along the Dutch border, it would seem more likely that it gradually decreases as one goes towards the coast, and R1b-U106 increases, which fits in with Flanders.

Thanks, this is interesting. I didn't know these details about the very North-sea coast and R1b/R1a. I wonder, given that R1a is more present at the baltic coast, perhaps R1a also once was more common along the north-sea coast. On the other hand, there was the North-West-Group, which is belived to have been a Germanic-Celtic mixture. Maybe this could also explain the higher R1b in north-west Germany, Netherlands and England, although not particularly at the coast.

GloomyGonzales
06-11-13, 00:42
This is still very interesting, I eagerly await my YDNA results from FTDNA. Although I assume it'll need upgrading from 12 markers to minimum 37. If R1a in Britain is assigned to predominantly Viking/ ( Germanic? ) settlement, it'll probably be Norman or Jutes, I guess.

In most cases 12 markers are not enough to securely determine your R1a clade. Only in case if you have value 10 in marker DYS388 you can be sure that you belong to R1a-L664 clade. Taking into account that a large variety of R1a caldes (R1a-Z284, R1a-L664, R1a-Z280*, R1a-CTS1211, R1a-CTS3402, R1a-Z92, R1a-M458, R1a-Z93*, R1a-Z282*, R1a-Z2122 ect) have been found in UK your ancestry can be pretty much enigmatic and unpredictable.

English Lad
06-11-13, 00:59
In most cases 12 markers are not enough to securely determine your R1a clade. Only in case if you have value 10 in marker DYS388 you can be sure that you belong to R1a-L664 clade. Taking into account that a large variety of R1a caldes (R1a-Z284, R1a-L664, R1a-Z280*, R1a-CTS1211, R1a-CTS3402, R1a-Z92, R1a-M458, R1a-Z93*, R1a-Z282*, R1a-Z2122 ect) have been found in UK your ancestry can be pretty much enigmatic and unpredictable.


How do those DYS markers work? They're the one thing that confuses me most. I'll definitely upgrade then, since it is my clade that I wish to know ever since receiving results from 23andme. Is the L664 clade the North West European one?

cheers

GloomyGonzales
06-11-13, 02:43
How do those DYS markers work? They're the one thing that confuses me most. I'll definitely upgrade then, since it is my clade that I wish to know ever since receiving results from 23andme. Is the L664 clade the North West European one?

cheers

Yes, R1a-L664 is found mostly in North Western Europe.
Here's the map for known R1a-L664
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ptab=2&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114781513110833464918.000468aaa7efd36208449&ll=55.083445,6.049043&spn=15.448633,34.158632&source=embed

English Lad
06-11-13, 13:49
Thank you!

It's strange how none is found in Iceland though, yet R1a is in Iceland, Is that the other clade Norse L448? Sorry, you can really tell I'm a novice with this stuff... :/

adamo
07-11-13, 03:30
You can't get a precise subclade information from ftdna with 12 markers??? What do they tell you just your main haplogroup?

English Lad
07-11-13, 12:20
You can't get a precise subclade information from ftdna with 12 markers??? What do they tell you just your main haplogroup?

With 12 markers it'll just be the Haplogroup, but I think there's a small chance that when small amounts of a certain Haplogroup is found in a population, If I match markers with other Englishmen who have tested and are R1a1a, they may be able to assign your shorthand too, if those Englishmen have tested higher markers themselves. Being R1a1a in England, South East England specifically, where such small amounts exist, it's possibly/highly likely I might share a common ancestor with other R1a1a's in South-East England. If any of those individuals tested higher, and have their shorthand, you never know I may be able to be assigned that shorthand too.

I think that's how it works but If not, then I will need to test a higher number of markers. Which I will gladly do.

English Lad
07-11-13, 14:02
Well, just got my YDNA results. R1a-M198.


MY STR results.
PANEL 1 (1-12)

Marker
DYS393
DYS390
DYS19**
DYS391
DYS385
DYS426
DYS388
DYS439
DYS389I
DYS392
DYS389II***


Value
13
25
15
11
11-14
12
12
10
12
11
29





So no L664 with DYS388 = 12.

Any thoughts? I guess further SNP testing will have to be done.

matbir
07-11-13, 17:22
I have put your results in h (http://predictor.ydna.ru/)aplogroup predictor (http://predictor.ydna.ru/)
N Haplogroup Probability
1 R1a1a1*-Vikings-M417*(xM458,L365) 65%
I suppose that Viking clade is Z284 but I am not sure.

English Lad
07-11-13, 23:26
I emailed Larry, one of the administrators of the R1a and Sublacdes Project over at FTDNA.

His reply was,

Your 12-marker pattern is common to several different branches of the R1a1a haplogroup. You can see this merely by scanning the surnames of your 27 exact matches, or you can take a look at the categorized list below of your exact matches within our project.

Based partly on ancestral geography, your patrilineage is probably Z284+ , and perhaps more specifically L448+ . In the British Isles, this branch is usually attributed to Scandinavian incursion (i.e., Vikings).

However, the list below shows that your 12 markers certainly provide room for other, more “exotic” hypotheses. Thus, I strongly recommend that you upgrade to at least 37 markers. You may wish to wait a couple of weeks, because FTDNA traditionally discounts its upgrades during the holiday season. So for example, Y-Refine12to37 is ordinarily $99, but typically drops to $69 during the sale. If you can upgrade all the way to 67 markers at the sale price (ordinarily $189, but $149 during the sale), so much the better.


So with that, I'll await the sales to upgrade to the 67 marker at a cheaper price and then hopefully we get some answers!

English Lad
08-11-13, 00:14
Ah forget it. I'm impatient, never was a good fisherman anyway. Just ordered an upgraded - Y refine 12 to 67.

Dagne
08-11-13, 12:23
Ah forget it. I'm impatient, never was a good fisherman anyway. Just ordered an upgraded - Y refine 12 to 67.
Good! I've got interested, too, who will you really turn out to be after all :)

MOESAN
08-11-13, 16:53
general answer, not too focused (excuse me) on the present thread, but caused by a lot of approximations red here
I doubt Slavs occuped Saxon lands before last High Middle Ages (I can mistake)
THE MORE IMPORTANT HERE: read the threads about Y-R1a in this forum: a lot of interesting precisions had already been said - yet a look at Wikipedia would not be bad -
good readings

Kardu
18-11-13, 11:17
6074 Current R1a tree

English Lad
18-11-13, 19:45
Thanks Kardu,

We'll know my Subclade come the end of December. ( Hopefully ).

English Lad
02-12-13, 18:44
I finally got a chance to have a go at Gedmatch Admix analysis, etc. It's been having problems recently, but here are results from the EU and Jtest.

http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/gifs/M115757_FFB4F0.giff
EUtest Oracle results:EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.


Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
34.02


2
ATLANTIC
24.19


3
SOUTH_BALTIC
12.18


4
WEST_MED
10.34


5
EAST_EURO
10


6
WEST_ASIAN
6.77


7
MIDDLE_EASTERN
1.12


8
EAST_MED
0.79


9
SOUTH_ASIAN
0.38


10
SIBERIAN
0.21



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
English
6.23


2
DK
6.85


3
NL
7.21


4
NO
7.47


5
Orcadian
8.07


6
West_&_Central_German
8.16


7
South_&_Central_Swedish
8.26


8
IE
8.51


9
Cornish
9.05


10
Scottish
9.71


11
North_Swedish
12.64


12
FR
14.96


13
AT
15.72


14
HU
20.52


15
South_Finnish
21.63


16
PT
21.71


17
Serbian
22.49


18
ES
22.55


19
PL
24.74


20
North_Italian
25.23

English Lad
02-12-13, 18:45
http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/gifs/M115757_343A50.gif


Jtest Oracle results:Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.


Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
33.83


2
ATLANTIC
23.77


3
SOUTH_BALTIC
12.15


4
WEST_MED
9.96


5
EAST_EURO
9.81


6
WEST_ASIAN
6.33


7
ASHKENAZI
3.08


8
MIDDLE_EASTERN
0.51


9
SOUTH_ASIAN
0.32


10
SIBERIAN
0.17


11
EAST_MED
0.07



Single Population Sharing:



#
Population (source)
Distance


1
English
5.95


2
DK
6.8


3
NL
7.06


4
NO
7.54


5
Orcadian
8.03


6
West_&_Central_German
8.04


7
South_&_Central_Swedish
8.32


8
IE
8.57


9
Cornish
8.93


10
Scottish
9.67


11
North_Swedish
12.43


12
FR
14.78


13
AT
15.64


14
HU
20.42


15
PT
21.41


16
South_Finnish
21.5


17
ES
22.21


18
Serbian
22.28


19
PL
24.68


20
North_Italian
24.95

English Lad
02-12-13, 18:49
And K36 Eurogenes,

http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/gifs/M115757_75166E.gif





Population



Amerindian
-


Arabian
-


Armenian
-


Basque
0.78%


Central_African
-


Central_Euro
8.34%


East_African
-


East_Asian
-


East_Balkan
4.85%


East_Central_Asian
-


East_Central_Euro
5.45%


East_Med
-


Eastern_Euro
2.53%


Fennoscandian
13.01%


French
7.42%


Iberian
13.36%


Indo-Chinese
-


Italian
5.41%


Malayan
-


Near_Eastern
-


North_African
-


North_Atlantic
13.61%


North_Caucasian
1.42%


North_Sea
22.62%


Northeast_African
-


Oceanian
-


Omotic
-


Pygmy
-


Siberian
-


South_Asian
-


South_Central_Asian
-


South_Chinese
-


Volga-Ural
-


West_African
-


West_Caucasian
1.20%


West_Med
-

Idun
02-12-13, 19:51
That Fennoscandian points to Vikings, it could have been close or over 20% on arrival.

English Lad
02-12-13, 20:05
That Fennoscandian points to Vikings, it could have been close or over 20% on arrival.

I figured it'd be Vikings, perhaps that's the percentage my Y- DNA may come from ( R1a ). We'll see in time.

What would the North-Central Euro point too? I know Central Europe would be Germany, Poland, Czech Republic and Austria and other surrounding nations, but would the north be North Germany, North Poland or both?

Idun
02-12-13, 20:21
Funny how "Finnish" MtDNA the English here have.

Idun
02-12-13, 20:34
I figured it'd be Vikings, perhaps that's the percentage my Y- DNA may come from ( R1a ). We'll see in time.

What would the North-Central Euro point too? I know Central Europe would be Germany, Poland, Czech Republic and Austria and other surrounding nations, but would the north be North Germany, North Poland or both?

It all points to Vikings and Anglo-Saxons, looks normal for an English Lad. :good_job:

English Lad
02-12-13, 20:40
Funny how "Finnish" MtDNA the English here have.


Believe me, that W1 caught me off guard. I'd love to know the history behind it.

English Lad
02-12-13, 22:36
FTDNA just confirmed my W1 to be W1g and I have 0 matches on their database.

Haplogroup - W1g

Extra Mutations

315.1C
522.1A
522.2C
C569a
T7278C
A8188G



Missing Mutations

C16311T






HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]A16129G
[*=center]T16187C
[*=center]C16189T
[*=center]G16230A
[*=center]T16278C
[*=center]C16292T
[*=center]C16320T



HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]C146T
[*=center]C152T
[*=center]A189G
[*=center]T204C
[*=center]G207A
[*=center]A247G
[*=center]315.1C
[*=center]522.1A
[*=center]522.2C
[*=center]C569a



CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]G709A
[*=center]A769G
[*=center]A825t
[*=center]A1018G
[*=center]T1243C
[*=center]A2758G
[*=center]C2885T
[*=center]A3505G
[*=center]T3594C
[*=center]G4104A
[*=center]T4312C
[*=center]G5046A
[*=center]G5460A
[*=center]G7146A
[*=center]T7256C
[*=center]T7278C
[*=center]A7521G
[*=center]C7864T
[*=center]A8188G
[*=center]G8251A
[*=center]T8468C
[*=center]T8655C
[*=center]G8701A
[*=center]G8994A
[*=center]C9540T
[*=center]G10398A
[*=center]T10664C
[*=center]A10688G
[*=center]C10810T
[*=center]C10873T
[*=center]C10915T
[*=center]C11674T
[*=center]A11914G
[*=center]A11947G
[*=center]T12414C
[*=center]G13105A
[*=center]G13276A
[*=center]T13506C
[*=center]T13650C
[*=center]G15884c

mihaitzateo
02-12-13, 22:49
That Fennoscandian points to Vikings, it could have been close or over 20% on arrival.

Well,but original Anglo-Saxons,who came from somewhere in North Germany,to England,did not had any Fenno-scandian?
I think neither Fenno-Scandian,neither East-Central Euro,neither Eastern Euro could be linked for sure with Vikings.

Idun
02-12-13, 23:12
Well,but original Anglo-Saxons,who came from somewhere in North Germany,to England,did not had any Fenno-scandian?
I think neither Fenno-Scandian,neither East-Central Euro,neither Eastern Euro could be linked for sure with Vikings.

The Fennoscandian is a positive sign, from Norway, Sweden or Finland mainly, dont know Denmark. Some of those can comment

Idun
02-12-13, 23:14
FTDNA just confirmed my W1 to be W1g and I have 0 matches on their database.

Haplogroup - W1g



Extra Mutations

315.1C
522.1A
522.2C
C569a
T7278C
A8188G



Missing Mutations

C16311T






HVR1 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]A16129G
[*=center]T16187C
[*=center]C16189T
[*=center]G16230A
[*=center]T16278C
[*=center]C16292T
[*=center]C16320T


HVR2 DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]C146T
[*=center]C152T
[*=center]A189G
[*=center]T204C
[*=center]G207A
[*=center]A247G
[*=center]315.1C
[*=center]522.1A
[*=center]522.2C
[*=center]C569a


CODING REGION DIFFERENCES FROM RSRS


[*=center]G709A
[*=center]A769G
[*=center]A825t
[*=center]A1018G
[*=center]T1243C
[*=center]A2758G
[*=center]C2885T
[*=center]A3505G
[*=center]T3594C
[*=center]G4104A
[*=center]T4312C
[*=center]G5046A
[*=center]G5460A
[*=center]G7146A
[*=center]T7256C
[*=center]T7278C
[*=center]A7521G
[*=center]C7864T
[*=center]A8188G
[*=center]G8251A
[*=center]T8468C
[*=center]T8655C
[*=center]G8701A
[*=center]G8994A
[*=center]C9540T
[*=center]G10398A
[*=center]T10664C
[*=center]A10688G
[*=center]C10810T
[*=center]C10873T
[*=center]C10915T
[*=center]C11674T
[*=center]A11914G
[*=center]A11947G
[*=center]T12414C
[*=center]G13105A
[*=center]G13276A
[*=center]T13506C
[*=center]T13650C
[*=center]G15884c







Please join the Finnish group also, your results are interesting.

Also join all the Skandinavian and Baltic groups, also Russia.

English Lad
02-12-13, 23:46
Please join the Finnish group also, your results are interesting.

Also join all the Skandinavian and Baltic groups, also Russia.


When I receive my Y refine for my Y-DNA and shorthand, which I guess may be some time soon, I'll join as many groups as need. It's very interesting indeed. I must be a rare Englishman...

Idun
02-12-13, 23:49
When I receive my Y refine for my Y-DNA and shorthand, which I guess may be some time soon, I'll join as many groups as need. It's very interesting indeed. I must be a rare Englishman...

You have it all, where are you from in England? The Danes where close to the Slavs and you have signs to Norway/Sweden/Finland.

mihaitzateo
02-12-13, 23:52
The Fennoscandian is a positive sign, from Norway, Sweden or Finland mainly, dont know Denmark. Some of those can comment

I just looked on some results from K36.
Have seen Austrian with about 8.53% Feno-Scandian,someone from FYROM with over 5% Feno-Scandian,some Greek with over 5% Feno-Scandian etc.
In Eastern Europe,except Russia,Vikings were not present.
Only Eastern and Western Germanic tribes,were present here.So I think is quite clear Eastern Germanic tribes and Western Germanic tribes (like Anglo-Saxons) were also bearers of Feno-Scandian admixture,but not in high numbers.
So a very logic thing is to say Feno-Scandian from a normal English comes from both his Anglo-Saxon ancestry and from his Norman (which were Vikings mixed with French people) ancestry.No idea if vikings who raided in English left too many genes,but Normas clearly left,since they came and settled in England and mixed with the population there.

English Lad
02-12-13, 23:55
You have it all, where are you from in England? The Danes where close to the Slavs and you have signs to Norway/Sweden/Finland.

My Father's line is all Kent as far back as early 1700's, that's as far as i got before spending money on DNA tests rather than on family trees. The issue is, my DYS388 wasn't 10 which is typically R1a L664 ( Germanic?), so I'm expected to see the Scandinavian Subclade Z284, but even then, there's a chance that it could instead be Slavic, or Jewish or whichever else...

Idun
03-12-13, 00:16
I just looked on some results from K36.
Have seen Austrian with about 8.53% Feno-Scandian,someone from FYROM with over 5% Feno-Scandian,some Greek with over 5% Feno-Scandian etc.
In Eastern Europe,except Russia,Vikings were not present.
Only Eastern and Western Germanic tribes,were present here.So I think is quite clear Eastern Germanic tribes and Western Germanic tribes (like Anglo-Saxons) were also bearers of Feno-Scandian admixture,but not in high numbers.
So a very logic thing is to say Feno-Scandian from a normal English comes from both his Anglo-Saxon ancestry and from his Norman (which were Vikings mixed with French people) ancestry.No idea if vikings who raided in English left too many genes,but Normas clearly left,since they came and settled in England and mixed with the population there.

They did not raid, they came with whole families.

Idun
03-12-13, 00:21
My Father's line is all Kent as far back as early 1700's, that's as far as i got before spending money on DNA tests rather than on family trees. The issue is, my DYS388 wasn't 10 which is typically R1a L664 ( Germanic?), so I'm expected to see the Scandinavian Subclade Z284, but even then, there's a chance that it could instead be Slavic, or Jewish or whichever else...

Then it could be from the original Jutes invasion also, no Viking settlements there.

English Lad
03-12-13, 00:23
Then it could be from the original Jutes invasion also, no Viking settlements there.

I can only speculate that it'd be either Jutes or probably a Norman of viking descent, many Normans settled here. I am only a 1 hour drive away from Hastings... Can't have taken them long to get here after they destroyed the English Shieldwall.

Idun
03-12-13, 00:34
I can only speculate that it'd be either Jutes or probably a Norman of viking descent, many Normans settled here. I am only a 1 hour drive away from Hastings... Can't have taken them long to get here after they destroyed the English Shieldwall.


Remember when I went to school as a kid in Cambridge, my father was studying there, and got in a heated argument with the teacher about the Normans.
She was very angry when I insisted that they where Norsemen, she disagreed and got very mad. :laughing:

Idun
03-12-13, 00:55
I still think 13.01% Fennoscandian looks high, is the Iberian = Celtic in this?

English Lad
03-12-13, 01:01
Remember when I went to school as a kid in Cambridge, my father was studying there, and got in a heated argument with the teacher about the Normans.
She was very angry when I insisted that they where Norsemen, she disagreed and got very mad. :laughing:

To be completely honest, the genetic legacy of Normans has me stumped. Whether they were more Flemish, or Celtic, or Germanic or Norse. Much of that DNA was already in Britain so it's not like they had much affect on the gene pool to begin with. The DNA they carried was likely already here. The origin of the very first Normans was no doubt Norsemen who settled in Normandy, otherwise they wouldn't have existed to begin with.

English Lad
03-12-13, 01:14
I still think 13.01% Fennoscandian looks high, is the Iberian = Celtic in this?

I'm not sure really. The bloke who blogs about it, says that the results shouldn't be taken too literally, as although 12% Iberian admixture shows, that doesn't mean to say it's recent. In fact, I'm not sure how far back these tests go in Years.

All I know is that on each test, Eurogenes and Dodecad. The largest chunk of my ancestry is North- Central Euro. My population matches in genetic relations is usually Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, German, and Sweden.

Here's another with the Dodecad V3 project,

It doesn't label Central North Euro, instead it labels West and Central ( CEU) European, but look at my genetic relations.

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
West_European
53.97


2
Mediterranean
25.26


3
East_European
10.93


4
West_Asian
8.22


5
Southwest_Asian
1.61




--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 CEU @ 1.426
2 N._European @ 2.806
3 Orcadian @ 2.940
4 Argyll @ 2.978
5 Orkney @ 3.316
6 German @ 7.100
7 Mixed_Germanic @ 8.785
8 Dutch @ 10.028
9 French @ 11.344
10 French @ 11.785
227 iterations

Edit, here's another

dodecad K12

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
North_European
45.52


2
Atlantic_Med
36.84


3
Gedrosia
9.38


4
Caucasus
6.82


5
Southwest_Asian
1.45




--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mixed_Germanic @ 2.714
2 Dutch @ 3.192
3 German @ 5.932
4 CEU30 @ 6.120
5 English @ 6.366
6 Kent @ 6.414
7 British_Isles @ 7.453
8 Argyll @ 8.659
9 Orkney @ 8.935
10 British @ 9.139
223 iterations.

Idun
03-12-13, 01:20
Anyone know if they are really getting DNA from Rollo? Interesting to Finns if the sagas have any truth with him being an Yngling.

Idun
03-12-13, 01:27
I'm not sure really. The bloke who blogs about it, says that the results shouldn't be taken too literally, as although 12% Iberian admixture shows, that doesn't mean to say it's recent. In fact, I'm not sure how far back these tests go in Years.

All I know is that on each test, Eurogenes and Dodecad. The largest chunk of my ancestry is North- Central Euro. My population matches in genetic relations is usually Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, German, and Sweden.

Here's another with the Dodecad V3 project,

It doesn't label Central North Euro, instead it labels West and Central ( CEU) European, but look at my genetic relations.

Admix Results (sorted):



#
Population
Percent


1
West_European
53.97


2
Mediterranean
25.26


3
East_European
10.93


4
West_Asian
8.22


5
Southwest_Asian
1.61




--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 CEU @ 1.426
2 N._European @ 2.806
3 Orcadian @ 2.940
4 Argyll @ 2.978
5 Orkney @ 3.316
6 German @ 7.100
7 Mixed_Germanic @ 8.785
8 Dutch @ 10.028
9 French @ 11.344
10 French @ 11.785
227 iterations




I think the Med and Iberia are part of the Celtic and Roman influence.

English Lad
03-12-13, 01:30
Anyone know if they are really getting DNA from Rollo? Interesting to Finns if the sagas have any truth with him being an Yngling.


What's that, may I ask?

Idun
03-12-13, 01:37
What's that, may I ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngling)


Snorri Sturluson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorri_Sturluson) hints at a less divine origin in Skáldskaparmál (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sk%C3%A1ldskaparm%C3%A1l) for this dynasty: One war-king was named Skelfir; and his house is called the House of Skilfings: his kindred is in the Eastern Land. In the 13th century, the official Swedish/Scandinavian term for the modern-day Southern Finland was "Eastern Land", Österland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96sterland), i.e. the eastern half of Sweden at the time.
In Ynglinga Saga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ynglinga_Saga) in 1220 AD, Snorri Sturluson discusses marriages between Swedish and Finnish royal families. In 1220 AD (c.), in the Skáldskaparmál section of Edda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edda), Sturluson discusses King Halfdan the Old (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfdan_the_Old), Nór's great-grandson, and nine of his sons who are the forefathers of various royal lineages, including "Yngvi, from whom the Ynglings are descended". According to Orkneyinga Saga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkneyinga_Saga) in 1230 AD, Nór founded Norway. He was a direct descendant of Fornjótr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fornj%C3%B3tr), the King of Finland, Kvenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvenland) and Gotland. Many Scandinavian historians name Halfdan the Old as an ancestor to Rollo, the Viking conqueror who founded Normandy and took the name Robert I (the first) after converting to Christianity. He is William the Conqueror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_the_Conqueror)'s great grandfather.
In 1387 AD, Hversu Noregr byggðist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hversu_Noregr_bygg%C3%B0ist) ('How Norway was inhabited') is an account of the origin of various legendary Norwegian lineages. It too traces the descendants of the primeval Finnish ruler Fornjotr down to Nór, who is here the eponym and first great king of Norway, and then gives details of the descendants of Nór and of his brother Gór in the following section known as the Ættartölur ('Genealogies', a.k.a. Fundinn Noregr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundinn_Noregr), 'Founding of Norway'). The Hversu account is closely paralleled by the opening of the Orkneyinga saga.
The 'genealogies' also claim that many heroic families famed in Scandinavian tradition but not located in Norway were of a Finn-Kven stock, mostly sprung from Nór's great-grandson Halfdan the Old. Almost all the lineages sprung from Halfdan are then shown to reconvert in the person of Harald Fairhair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Fairhair), the first king of "all Norway". This information can be confirmed in other sources.
The 'Ættartölur' account ends to a genealogy of Harald's royal descendants down to Olaf IV of Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_IV_of_Norway) with the statement that the account was written in 1387, and with a list of the kings of Norway from this Olaf back to Harald Fair-hair.
Another origin for the name skilfing is possible: Snorri described Erik and Alrik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_and_Alrik), the sons of Skjalf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skjalf) to be the de facto ancestors of this Norse-Finnish clan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_clan).
The kings who resided at Upsal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upsal) had been the supreme chiefs over the whole Swedish dominions until the death of Agne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agne), when, as before related, the kingdom came to be divided between brothers (Alrek and Erik). After that time the dominions and kingly powers were spread among the branches of the family as these increased; but some kings cleared great tracts of forest-land, and settled them, and thereby increased their domains.[ (http://www.northvegr.org/lore/heim/001_07.php)

English Lad
13-12-13, 13:51
Update; FTDNA sent me my 25 and 37 markers.

PANEL 2 (13-25)

Marker
DYS458
DYS459
DYS455
DYS454
DYS447
DYS437
DYS448
DYS449
DYS464


Value
15
9-10
11
11
23
14
20
31
12-15-15-16




PANEL 3 (26-37)

Marker
DYS460
Y-GATA-H4
YCAII
DYS456
DYS607
DYS576
DYS570
CDY
DYS442
DYS438


Value
10
11
19-22
15
16
18
18
37-38
12
11






Guesses?

Idun
13-12-13, 19:50
Update; FTDNA sent me my 25 and 37 markers.

PANEL 2 (13-25)



Marker
DYS458
DYS459
DYS455
DYS454
DYS447
DYS437
DYS448
DYS449
DYS464


Value
15
9-10
11
11
23
14
20
31
12-15-15-16




PANEL 3 (26-37)



Marker
DYS460
Y-GATA-H4
YCAII
DYS456
DYS607
DYS576
DYS570
CDY
DYS442
DYS438


Value
10
11
19-22
15
16
18
18
37-38
12
11






Guesses?

DYS458 15, Fennoskandia, I think.

Idun
13-12-13, 20:34
What is your DYS394?

DYS570 18 points to Scandinavia also.

English Lad
13-12-13, 22:47
Is DYS394 known as DYS19? If so, it's 15. I only have two matches at 37 markers, one is female who hasn't revealed her location and the other is a male who is from West Norway. I'm at a genetic distance of 4 from both, so likely it is distant than recent. It says His shorthand is -
R-SRY10831.2.
Which I don't think says much... Unless I can get him to email me his 67 marker STR results, that might help.

Idun
14-12-13, 07:39
Is DYS394 known as DYS19? If so, it's 15. I only have two matches at 37 markers, one is female who hasn't revealed her location and the other is a male who is from West Norway. I'm at a genetic distance of 4 from both, so likely it is distant than recent. It says His shorthand is -
R-SRY10831.2.
Which I don't think says much... Unless I can get him to email me his 67 marker STR results, that might help.

Yes, its DYS19.

Look here, scroll to the end, you hit most of the separating values between the lineages as Old Norse.

Old Norse 37











13
25
15
10
11
14
12
12
10
13
11
30
15
9
10
11
11
23
14
20
32
12
15
15
16
11
11
19
23
16
16
18
18
34
39
12

11




http://danishdemes.org/YDNA-results-HgR1a.html

English Lad
14-12-13, 09:35
Yes, its DYS19.

Look here, scroll to the end, you hit most of the separating values between the lineages as Old Norse.

Old Norse 37











13
25
15
10
11
14
12
12
10
13
11
30
15
9
10
11
11
23
14
20
32
12
15
15
16
11
11
19
23
16
16
18
18
34
39
12
11




http://danishdemes.org/YDNA-results-HgR1a.html

I can't be far off Norse then, most if not all values I miss are off just by 1. Interesting!

English Lad
20-12-13, 21:24
My entire 67 marker STR values.

PANEL 1 (1-12)

Marker
DYS393
DYS390
DYS19**
DYS391
DYS385
DYS426
DYS388
DYS439
DYS389I
DYS392
DYS389II***


Value
13
25
15
11
11-14
12
12
10
12
11
29




PANEL 2 (13-25)

Marker
DYS458
DYS459
DYS455
DYS454
DYS447
DYS437
DYS448
DYS449
DYS464


Value
15
9-10
11
11
23
14
20
31
12-15-15-16




PANEL 3 (26-37)

Marker
DYS460
Y-GATA-H4
YCAII
DYS456
DYS607
DYS576
DYS570
CDY
DYS442
DYS438


Value
10
11
19-22
15
16
18
18
37-38
12
11




PANEL 4 (38-47)

Marker
DYS531
DYS578
DYF395S1
DYS590
DYS537
DYS641
DYS472
DYF406S1
DYS511


Value
12
8
17-17
8
11
10
8
11
10




PANEL 4 (48-60)

Marker
DYS425
DYS413
DYS557
DYS594
DYS436
DYS490
DYS534
DYS450
DYS444
DYS481
DYS520
DYS446


Value
12
22-22
16
11
12
12
14
8
14
23
22
12




PANEL 4 (61-67)

Marker
DYS617
DYS568
DYS487
DYS572
DYS640
DYS492
DYS565


Value
12
11
13
11
10
12
12

Idun
21-12-13, 16:36
My entire 67 marker STR values.

PANEL 1 (1-12)



Marker
DYS393
DYS390
DYS19**
DYS391
DYS385
DYS426
DYS388
DYS439
DYS389I
DYS392
DYS389II***


Value
13
25
15
11
11-14
12
12
10
12
11
29




PANEL 2 (13-25)



Marker
DYS458
DYS459
DYS455
DYS454
DYS447
DYS437
DYS448
DYS449
DYS464


Value
15
9-10
11
11
23
14
20
31
12-15-15-16




PANEL 3 (26-37)



Marker
DYS460
Y-GATA-H4
YCAII
DYS456
DYS607
DYS576
DYS570
CDY
DYS442
DYS438


Value
10
11
19-22
15
16
18
18
37-38
12
11




PANEL 4 (38-47)



Marker
DYS531
DYS578
DYF395S1
DYS590
DYS537
DYS641
DYS472
DYF406S1
DYS511


Value
12
8
17-17
8
11
10
8
11
10




PANEL 4 (48-60)



Marker
DYS425
DYS413
DYS557
DYS594
DYS436
DYS490
DYS534
DYS450
DYS444
DYS481
DYS520
DYS446


Value
12
22-22
16
11
12
12
14
8
14
23
22
12




PANEL 4 (61-67)



Marker
DYS617
DYS568
DYS487
DYS572
DYS640
DYS492
DYS565


Value
12
11
13
11
10
12
12






Did you find anything interesting comparing your values?

English Lad
22-12-13, 00:58
Did you find anything interesting comparing your values?


Well everything indicated Norse, which it is but the only interesting thing is that my R1a is the older branch for Scandinavian. I'm ( suspected by Larry via R1a project ) R1a Z284*

8.E3B. Z287+ CTS8401+ Z281- Clade Z287, subclade CTS8401, cluster E3B

If you ever look at the R1a results map, that's me :P.