PDA

View Full Version : Eurasian/European origins of E1B1B (All subclades, some older-some newer)



TheKingIam
19-12-13, 17:40
I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

What do you think?

Thel 'Vadam
19-12-13, 18:11
I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

What do you think?


Some Berbers like Riffians, Kabylians, Chaouis... have Eurasian origin

TheKingIam
19-12-13, 18:19
Some Berbers like Riffians, Kabylians, Chaouis... have Eurasian origin

No no all do, but some groups like the Tuareg are heavily mixed with blacks.
All Arabs/Blacks in North Africa are part Berber but not all Berbers are part Arab/Black if you get what I mean

adamo
19-12-13, 18:58
What if the home of all E3b is in the Horn of Africa and E3b DID in fact leave to the Middle East before re-entering via North Africa or something?

TheKingIam
19-12-13, 21:25
What if the home of all E3b is in the Horn of Africa and E3b DID in fact leave to the Middle East before re-entering via North Africa or something?

Wouldn't explain the Saami connection, the European haplogroups in East Africans. and many many, many, many other things

Garrick
19-12-13, 22:21
I HAVE NOTICED THAT,

East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.

I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?

What do you think?

I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .

TheKingIam
20-12-13, 09:21
I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .

Yes I know, my "key" is that Berbers, and East Africans both have eurasian/European origins (Berbers have stayed longer in Eurasia than the ancestors of East Africans of course)

Yanis
21-01-14, 11:39
What do you think of subclade E-L19/PF2469 ?

It is fund in Sardinian samples


Here's how they break down by country:


UK 67.5%
Swiss / German 17.5%
Iberia 10%
Italy 2.5%
Morocco 2.5%


His age was 9.5-11ky, after you what their origin, how did they migrated ? via Iberia?


thank you

albanopolis
21-01-14, 17:51
I said already, we don't know a lot of things and the science will discover with new findings. However, one of thing is sure. E-M78 (Egyptian origin) is ancestor of following subclades:

E-V12 Egypt, Sudan, etc.
E-V13 Balkans, and also South Europe, Lebanon etc.
E-V22 Egypt, Middle East, etc.
E-V65 North Africa, Spain, etc.

Is E-M78* still exist? Yes, carriers this haplogroup, although rare, were found in Egypt, and interestingly, two carriers of E-M78 found in the Balkans.

E-M78, E-M81 and E-M34 are three main subclades of haplogroup E-M35 (E-M215).

What is your key point? Tribes moved and tribesmen migrated from one point to another, and spread own haplogroup. Years is hard to precisely define, you can take wider span - and + .
What do you do for living for god's sake?
Everyone with minimal knowledge of haplogroups agrees that there is no connection between haplogroups and ethnicities.
Ethnicities are cultural entities, no haplogroups entities.
Where did you get the fact that E-M78 is of Egyptian ethnicity?
Does not such a statement sounds naive to you?

joelhgrant
02-01-20, 12:00
North African?

bicicleur
02-01-20, 15:45
I HAVE NOTICED THAT,
East African Somalis and Ethiopians are all carriers of an old subclade of E1B1B and they carry some European haplogroups.
Berbers from coastal North Africa are also heavy E1B1B e-m81 carriers(a newer subclade) and all their maternal haplogroups are European/Eurasian
And E1B1B v-13, heavy in the Balkans and in random parts of Europe, older than e-m81.
I put it to you, Berbers have a maternal connection to the Saamis, the indigenous people of parts of Northern Europe (14% in some Tunisian tribes!) and the connection is fairly new, 9k years old, but there's one problem 9k years old is when the e-m81 supposedly split from East Africa, how did they get to Northern Europe?
What do you think?
E-V32 is a clade of Cushites, they were herders who spoke Cushitic languages their origin is PPNB Levant and they migrated to NE Africa during the period of the 'Green Sahara'.
They are not to be confused with the Cushites which were known by the Egyptians.
They entered the archeological record ca 5,2 ka when they moved through the rift valley from the Afar triangle toward lake Turkana.
Later they moved further south to the Serengeti plain, and there is anciant DNA from this area and period.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/E1b1b1a1b_V32_Distribution.png/330px-E1b1b1a1b_V32_Distribution.png
E-V32 distribution
https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/E1b1b-tree.png
E1b1b1-M35 spread in the Levant where they admixed with people with DNA similar to the 26 ka Dzudzuana cave teeth samples.
We have Natufian and PPNB Levant DNA.
I guess the origin of E1b1b1-M35 is the Nile Valley.
During LGM the Nile ran completely dry and the Nile Valley was abandoned.
The E1b1b1-M35 founding father must have moved north to the southern Levant to meet the people with the 26 ka Dzudzuana DNA.

E-V13 is of Balkan origin, as his ancestor, E-L618 was spotted in Cardium ware Croatia and in Cardium Ware Catalonia.

kingjohn
05-01-20, 17:14
What do you think of subclade E-L19/PF2469 ?

It is fund in Sardinian samples


Here's how they break down by country:


UK 67.5%
Swiss / German 17.5%
Iberia 10%
Italy 2.5%
Morocco 2.5%


His age was 9.5-11ky, after you what their origin, how did they migrated ? via Iberia?


thank you


E-L19 is interesting it is the ancestor of e-m81
it was found in individuals from medieval remains in iberia and italy
source : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6436108/
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708

yes it could spread from iberia to rest of europe
there is also pocket in derbyshire england

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L19/