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nurset
20-01-14, 16:52
News Agencies have recently published statistics of gay, lesbian marriages in France. It is awful. This policy ruins traditional families, decreases demographical level and promotes free love without borders. What will next generation look like?
For example in Europe and neighboring countries the situation is this

6200

As we can see Western countries were forced to submit freedom of homosexual marriages and gay-propaganda. However East is still trying to supress any thoughts about this issue. Take Georgia, Orthodox Christians hampered LGBT festival and demonstration in May last year. Their traditions are strong and firm but they are due to sign the Assosiation Agreement with the EU in August, so LGBT will get their rights even in this country. Obviously there are people standing against LGBT values. Some created blogs and hot topics on forums http://georgia-eu.blogspot.com/

And so on...

I would like to ask forum members what your attitude is to LGBT activists and their values? Will "European Rainbow Boat" (EU with gay, lesbian couples and newly come members) sink in the World Ocean? What is our future with LGBT?

LeBrok
20-01-14, 20:08
News Agencies have recently published statistics of gay, lesbian marriages in France. It is awful. This policy ruins traditional families, decreases demographical level and promotes free love without borders. What will next generation look like?

Pretty much like humans. Actually the freedom of sexuality might reduce numbers of gays, because they are not forced into unwanted marriages and having kids. Therefore they won't transfer gay genes to next generation.




As we can see Western countries were forced to submit freedom of homosexual marriages and gay-propaganda. Nobody forces western countries. There are votes, referendums and chosen members of parliament.

I'm sure you are going to enjoy gay bushing during winter Olympics in Russia. Yes, the gays infiltrated sports too.

I think for the only reason they became gays was to make their life more difficult for themselves. Anger parents, lose many friends, be frightened, beaten and degraded. But overall to make sex more complicated with same sex partners, and having children impossible. It is an obvious choice of better, easier and more exciting life style.

PS.Sorry, I've forgotten that they did it for the money from corrupt western business.

Ike
21-01-14, 05:56
Everything about sexual freedoms is familiar from long ago and it's happening all over again - same scenario.

People are introduced into abundance and immorality, and all forms of individuality are supported to boost egoism and self-promotion, which ultimately leads into social disintegration up to the point where foreign agents and speculators can infiltrate the government and money market to enforce the new age slavery to the nations. For that purpose liberal organizations (with LGBT included) are financed and promoted by some governments and secret services because conservatives, republicans and church stand in their way.

People are already recognizing that LBGT are just marionettes who are being used for more destructive purpose and are ready to fight against them. Main reason to fight against LGBT is not for their morally questionable sexual affiliations, but because it's a fight against neo-colonialism. No pun intended. LoL

And it' not just about them, LGBT are just tip of the iceberg. Enormous amount of money is directed into mass media and NGO to undermine traditional values of our European societies.


For their sensitive characters, gay people have always been involved into writing, radio, drama, TV, media, newspapers, marketing business, etc, and because of that convenient position in this electric age, they have been targeted for their anti-governmental propaganda work. And Balkan is a small region with strong kinship and people who take their family relations very seriously. First thing people ask you here when you meet is "where are you from" meaning from which region and which tribe do you belong. You can't really hide your gay preferences from anyone. And we still know which one are gay, and we know which one of them are getting payed for that dirty work. People see them coming out of different buildings after meeting with some foreign representatives. We see them buying fancy things and driving $40.000+ cars, some of them having bodyguards, and none having an explanation from where that money comes from...

And just to be fair, there are straight people also. They all work together in a frantic attempt to ridicule patriotism, church and morality, and to promote neo-US culture, language, movies, arts, music, fashion, behavior, etc. We know where it's going. We've seen The decline of the western civilization.

LeBrok
21-01-14, 07:12
People are introduced into abundance and immorality, and all forms of individuality are supported to boost egoism and self-promotion, which ultimately leads into social disintegration up to the point where foreign agents and speculators can infiltrate the government and money market to enforce the new age slavery to the nations. For that purpose liberal organizations (with LGBT included) are financed and promoted by some governments and secret services because conservatives, republicans and church stand in their way.Wow, that exactly what I would hear on Yugoslav communist party plenum.


And it' not just about them, LGBT are just tip of the iceberg. Enormous amount of money is directed into mass media and NGO to undermine traditional values of our European societies.
And what are the traditional values? The ones from Roman Empire or Middle Ages, renaissance, Art Deco, o Socialist morality of communist party (where spying by kids on parents was recommended by Lenin). Oh yes, bring the good old days.


For their sensitive characters, gay people have always been involved into writing, radio, drama, TV, media, newspapers, marketing business, etc, and because of that convenient position in this electric age, they have been targeted for their anti-governmental propaganda work. And Balkan is a small region with strong kinship and people who take their family relations very seriously. First thing people ask you here when you meet is "where are you from" meaning from which region and which tribe do you belong. You can't really hide your gay preferences from anyone. And we still know which one are gay, and we know which one of them are getting payed for that dirty work. People see them coming out of different buildings after meeting with some foreign representatives. We see them buying fancy things and driving $40.000+ cars, some of them having bodyguards, and none having an explanation from where that money comes from... How about rich parents, or is it possible that some gay are smart and can make a lot of money just working? And what kind of fortune one need to pay a loan on 40k car? A whopping 800 dollars a month. They must be stinky rich, lol, paid agent of corrupt west.
Common Ike, it's time to move with times and get used to something new.

Just because something is different, you don't like it, and it scares you, it doesn't mean that this something is wrong or immoral. Look at Roman Empire, it collapsed 100 year after moral Christianity became its official religion. It didn't collapse in first century when Caligula and others immorals rained. Give me attested example of collapsed civilization or a country due to lack of morality, with emphases on homosexuality would matter the most. Otherwise it is just your fantazy.



And just to be fair, there are straight people also. They all work together in a frantic attempt to ridicule patriotism, church and morality, and to promote neo-US culture, language, movies, arts, music, fashion, behavior, etc. We know where it's going. We've seen The decline of the western civilization. You know what, pretty soon you'll be left alone in this old bitter sacred world of yours.

james stock
21-01-14, 07:50
LGBT are narcissistic hedonists who care of nothing other than their own mentally illness. I don't care for people's sexual preference, but LGBT is obviously more of an ideology rather than a personal preference.

nurset
21-01-14, 09:46
Nobody forces western countries. There are votes, referendums and chosen members of parliament.


Sure, nobody forced them if you want so. Let's call it how you want. But the fact is that LGBT issue was taboo 60 years ago and what do we have now?

One American scientist studied similar issues and designed technology, with the help of which you can promote every forbidden idea and society will accept it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Overton described a spectrum from “more free” to “less free” with regard to government intervention, oriented vertically on an axis. As the spectrum moves or expands, an idea at a given location may become more or less politically acceptable.



I think EU leaders or some influential politics, businessmen, etc. have already used Overton's studies and now we have LGBT, gay marriages...
Today EU politics are promoting two ideas: euthanasia and incest. What will be next? Cannibalism?

LeBrok
21-01-14, 19:45
One American scientist studied similar issues and designed technology, with the help of which you can promote every forbidden idea and society will accept it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
Overton described a spectrum from “more free” to “less free” with regard to government intervention, oriented vertically on an axis. As the spectrum moves or expands, an idea at a given location may become more or less politically acceptable.

Yes it is true, but I'm not sure on what grounds you concluded that all new ideas (related to gays here) are wrong. If we had more people like you we would be still hunter-gatherers living in caves, because you would not allow for new ideas to develop and take hold. How would we know if farming is good for us if we didn't try a new life style? We wouldn't have different hairstyles unless someone had a crazy idea to cut hair with copper knife or maybe with a sharp rock? I'm sure first man who shaved his beard was looked at as an outcast, or maybe even kicked out off the village. He was so different.

So tell me, on what grounds you are dismissing new ideas or proclaiming them wrong and immoral?
So far, by your argumentation or lack of it, it looks to me as pure homophobia, and natural fear of different ideas. So far there is no correlation between equal rights for gays and decline or collapse of even one western country.
On contrary, gay rights are stronger where economies are stronger in Western Europe, and weakest in Eastern Europe where people make 3 times less money, are more conservative, and protectionistic. For same reason East can't reform their economies in proper way because they are afraid of new and big changes, and free market capitalism looks like a devil. They boil in their homemade sauces blaming others for their maladies. How human.
And yes, let's mention the champion for anti gay crusade, the Russia, where even journalists and opposition can't exercise freedoms, like free speech, without being killed.

Sennevini
21-01-14, 22:56
LGBT are narcissistic hedonists who care of nothing other than their own mentally illness.

What? Are you that ignorant? They too are your doctors, your teachers if you didn't know.

By the way, something having been a "taboo" doesn't mean it is bad.
Interracial marriage was a taboo 60 years ago. Atheism was a taboo 100 years ago.

You all make the mistake that more liberty means loss of morality.

LeBrok
21-01-14, 23:10
Hey nurset, what do you think about Women Rights movement and emancipation 100 years ago? After all it was a radical idea, going against old tradition, against traditional values, against church position, and many called women incapable of making their own decisions or political thoughts, working outside the home was called distraction of family, and all the movement was called immoral and satanic, marxist or masonic idea.
Well, sound familiar? And look, the world didn't collapse.
It was only scary for people because it was something new and different.

Ike
22-01-14, 00:16
Wow, that exactly what I would hear on Yugoslav communist party plenum. I know. That's why they had to do what they did to Yugoslavia.



And what a the traditional values? The ones from Roman Empire or Middle Ages, renaissance, Art Deco, o Socialist morality of communist party (where spying by kids on parents was recommended by Lenin). Oh yes, bring the good old days.


You're asking a question and giving a wrong answer. What does Lenin or communists have to do with conservatives and religion? Has he built any monasteries? Has he forbidden abortion? Has he forbidden females to vote? No, Lenin is more you're kind of person. A new age kid of guy.



How about rich parents, or is it possible that some gay are smart and can make a lot of money just working? And what kind of fortune one need to have to pay a loan on 40k car? A whopping 800 dollars a month. They must be stinky rich, lol, paid agent of corrupt west.
Common Ike, it's time to move with times and get used to something new.

You really don't believe when I tell you that we know everything? You are obviously not familiar with Balkan customs. I tried to give a brief explanation for the newcomers, but I wouldn't expect it from you.
Loan? For a $40K car?! Here? That's way off from reality. Why would you try to invent a most unrealistic explanation for something that is evident...



Just because something is different, you don't like it, and it scares you, it doesn't mean that this something is wrong or immoral. Look at Roman Empire, it collapsed 100 year after moral Christianity became its official religion. It didn't collapse in first century when Caligula and others immorals rained. Give me attested example of collapse of civilization or a country due to lack of morality, with emphases on homosexuality would matter the most. Otherwise it is just your fantazy.

I've exactly accentuated that it is not the problem with homosexuality itself, but the hidden agenda that lies beneath it. Nobody is that uninformed to think that homosexuality alone can ruin world.



You know what, pretty soon you'll be left alone in this old bitter sacred world of yours.
OMG, I sure hope you're right, but sadly it doesn't seem like it. All kinds of opportunists, perverts, agitators and neo-nacists are radiating the whole day from every media possible. No room for normal people.



Hey nurset, what do you think about Women Rights movement and emancipation 100 years ago? After all it was a radical idea, going against old tradition, against traditional values, against church position, and many called women incapable of making their own decisions or political thoughts, working outside the home was called distraction of family, and all the movement was called immoral and satanic, marxist or masonic idea.
Well, sound familiar? And look, the world didn't collapse.
It was only scary for people because it was something new and different.

Oh yes, it is collapsing. Females voters were a huge step for introduction of The new age democracy. Uneducated and emotional voters are being controlled from mass media, which is infiltrated by all kinds of CIA paid perverts. If we had just seen it earlier, how much evil was US culture to bring us, we could have stopped it on time. Russians have made a smart move (http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/12/26/russia-foreign-agents-law-hits-hundreds-ngos-updated-december-26-2013),but it's too late for my country. We have already been crushed.



And for those who has the guts to see what's behind all that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdroTzJMi94

hope
23-01-14, 01:30
News Agencies have recently published statistics of gay, lesbian marriages in France. It is awful.
Awful? What is awful about a section of our society being able to step out from the shadows and be involved in the larger world? What I think is "awful" is the fact it has taken so long for them to gain visibility.


This policy ruins traditional families
I presume from what you write your "traditional" family consists of an opposite sex couple? If so, how does this policy ruin that? Are we to think heterosexual people will suddenly stop getting involved with each other, stop getting married, stop having children? Of course they won`t, ergo this policy will not ruin your "traditional" family.


What will next generation look like?
Considering everything the human race has encountered up to now, I think in regards to this issue, the next generation will be just fine.
However if you are truly concerned about next generations, might I suggest you consider there are children in parts of the world suffering hunger, have no clean drinking water, have poor healthcare or education. These are the things that will affect that generation in a negative way. If you must worry about a future generation you might start here. Don`t spend so much time obsessing about people having the freedom to care for, love, or make a commitment to whomever they choose.


As we can see Western countries were forced to submit freedom of homosexual marriages
Western countries are in fact addressing the fact there is diversity within society. They are attempting, rightly, to make sensible legislation that covers all members within society, not merely some.

Florin C
23-01-14, 08:28
I presume from what you write your "traditional" family consists of an opposite sex couple? If so, how does this policy ruin that? Are we to think heterosexual people will suddenly stop getting involved with each other, stop getting married, stop having children? Of course they won`t, ergo this policy will not ruin your "traditional" family.
How about by bending the meaning of family, and what it means to society ? Do you think the family, consisting of a man and a woman (+ children), was created, by whoever created or instituted it, religion or not, to uphold „love” or whatever poetic crap ?

Love (it is a proven fact, over and over) doesn't last very long. The rest of a marriage (if it's not broken right there and then after the love is gone, like it's happening more and more often nowadays in the „civilised” West) is interest, and the preservation of it. The interest to see your children grown up and settled down, the interest to have someone to lean on in times of need and not get an ulcer because you don't have anyone to ask for help, and so on.

You might say that homosexual couples can do that too. But then, how can you be sure ? What do fags base their „love” on, other than sex ? It is happening more and more often with heterosexual couples, when „who do I sleep with ?” has become more important than „who do I want to grow old with ?”, what do you think happens with the homosexual ones, if they don't have the minimum responsability of a common child ?

The western „civilised” society is doomed if they think that individualism and lack of responsibility for others is the way. It may not be visible now, and yes, you can come with the false pretense that there are bigger more serious problems in the poorer regions of the world, but who do you think will prevail if doomsday comes (in whatever form) ? The „civilised” society where „Homo homini lupus” (man is wolf to the fellow man) or societies that grants it's members kinship relations that are stronger than any other relation „created” by modernists ?

Ike
23-01-14, 12:51
Western countries are in fact addressing the fact there is diversity within society. They are attempting, rightly, to make sensible legislation that covers all members within society, not merely some.

No they are not. They are just bending the meaning of the words one more time. We've spent thousands of years trying to perfect the language, and yet once again I have to watch resizing of a cognitive bin just because some homosexuals can't live with the fact that what they are doing is not right. I don't care what they do, if they have sex with each other, animals, Borla exhaust, or inflating dolls, but there is absolutely no reason to comply to them, just because they are not ready to accept who they are and that what they are doing is just wrong.

Why do they need society's approval to do something what they like to do? Why do they need to make us think that what they're doing is right, and for that purpose are bending the norms just so that they can fit in it?
It's Surgeon General's T.M.I. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.M.I.) plot once again, and I don't accept it. Trey Parker has ingeniously addresses these trends in modern society.

BTW it in not the story just about LGBT, it's a tendency of every deviated person to make his behavior fit within the borders of what is normal. If he isn't acting proper, and he can't make himself proper (I'm not telling that he should), then he goes distorting reality in his head to fit his behavior, so that he can feel relieved. It is a common phenomenon in psychology when people manage to skew those little language boxes in their heads and to stretch 'em just as far as it's needed to fit in some concepts that cause them discomfort and anxiety while out.

So, they can't accept reality and they bend reality in their minds and that's fine, but they are not going to do it in mine.

FBS
23-01-14, 14:11
Various psychoanalytic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis) theories explain homophobia as a threat to an individual's own same-sex impulses, whether those impulses are imminent or merely hypothetical. This threat causes repression, denial or reaction formation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_formation). link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

and one more thing LGBT is not a new "invention", it was with the human civilization for centuries such as pederasty for eg:From the early Republican times of Ancient Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome), it was perfectly normal for a man to desire and pursue boys. link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

So as long there are humans there will be different preferences that are either due to genetics or due to any sort of childhood issues. Everything can go "wrong" from the moment of conception & during 9 months of pregnancy and the nurturing phase afterwards.

I find this discussion quite neo-nazi...echoes of the long time gone, same goes for the "socialists" who were anything else but the socialist.

FBS
23-01-14, 14:37
echoes from the past:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology

Just pasting a part for the greeks:
Greek mythology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_mythology) features male same-sex love in many of the constituent myths. These myths have been described as being crucially influential on Western LGBT literature, with the original myths being constantly re-published and re-written, and the relationships and characters serving as icons.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney1-4) In comparison, lesbianism is rarely found in classical myths.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-10)




Achilles and Patroclus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney5-11)
Achilles and Troilus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles#Troilus)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-12)
Agamemnon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agamemnon) and Argynnus[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-13)
Agathaidas and Phalanthus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanthus_(Tarentum))[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-14)
Ameinias and Narcissus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology)#Hellenic_version)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney5-11)
Apollo and Hyacinth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyacinth_(mythology))[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney2-15)
Apollo and Hymenaios (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenaios)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney2-15)
Chrysippus and Laius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysippus_(mythology))[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney4-16)




Daphnis and Pan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnis)[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney3-17)
Dionysus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus) and Ampelus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampelos)[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney3-17)
Dionysus and Prosymnus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosymnus)[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-18)
Euryalus and Nisus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisus_and_Euryalus)[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-19)
Heracles and Abderus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abderus)
Heracles and Hylas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylas)[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney3-17)
Heracles and Iolaus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iolaus)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney4-16)
Hermes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes) and Krokus




Ianthe and Iphis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphis)[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-20)
Poseidon and Pelops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelops#Tantalus.27_savage_banquet)[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney2-15)
Polyeidos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyeidos) and Glaucus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaucus)[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-21)
Orpheus and the Thracians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus#Death)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney4-16)
Orpheus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orpheus) and Kalais (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalais)[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney4-16)
Apollo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo)/Silvanus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvanus_(mythology)) and Cyparissus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyparissus)[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-22)
Zeus (Artemis) and Callisto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callisto_(mythology)#Myth)[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-23)
Zeus and Ganymede (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(mythology))[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology#cite_note-Pequigney1-4)

hope
23-01-14, 16:27
b
How about by bending the meaning of family, and what it means to society ?
How is this "bending" the meaning of family? Family can mean different things to different people.
For some it may be a one parent unit, resulting from the death of one of the couple. Is this less a family?
For others, family may be the grandparents ( or aunt, uncle) who because of death of parents, or another reason, are raising the children and providing for them. Is this unit less a family?
Yet still a family unit to some may consist of two male parents or two female parents, raising children and providing for them. Is this less a family?
How about the couple who cannot, for whatever reason, have children. In that case each is the others family. Again, is this less a family?
In other words, a family, can be a unit made in different ways. The structure of the unit is not important. The success of the unit and that the members, within that unit feel a family, is what matters.



Love (it is a proven fact, over and over) doesn't last very long.
You have a somewhat negative view on love, Florin C. Perhaps based personal experience [I hope not] and you feel it applies in all cases.
However,I disagree with you.
A parent will love its child all of their life, the longer they live, the longer the love for their child. As a rule, most sons or daughters will love their parents for as long as the parent lives. Even after death the parent[or caregiver] may be remembered with affection. So not all love is short lived.
But, of course I understand, you are speaking of marital love. Here also I disagree. There are many married couples who will tell you they still very much, love their partner, even after forty or fifty years of marriage. In fact some will say their love and respect for each other has actually grown over the years.
I will agree that some couples can stop caring about each other, and of course not all marriages will last. This in itself can be for any number of reasons. In some instances the couple might remain together until such time as the children are older. This, depending on the relationship of the couple, can have either a positive or negative effect on the said children.



You might say that homosexual couples can do that too. But then, how can you be sure ? What do fags base their „love” on, other than sex ?
Well I am sure that a gay or lesbian couple, will base their love on much the same criteria as a heterosexual couple will. Each set of couples will be attracted to the other both physically and emotionally. At some point, any of the said couples, may get married. Now, in some countries, same sex couples can do this. Probably the worries and hopes of each set will be much the same...paying the mortgage, raising children, visiting in-laws, etc etc.



The western „civilised” society is doomed if they think that individualism and lack of responsibility for others is the way.
Oh, I don`t think western society is doomed because it respects the "individual" right of people. And I also think it shows responsibility to all it`s citizens by making inclusive policies rather than exclusive.
I think societies that grant equality, fairness and freedoms, regardless of race, sex, sexual preference ..etc, will stand well if doomsday comes. I think the question is a bit dramatic..but no matter.

hope
23-01-14, 17:49
No they are not. They are just bending the meaning of the words one more time. We've spent thousands of years trying to perfect the language, and yet once again I have to watch resizing of a cognitive bin just because some homosexuals can't live with the fact that what they are doing is not right. I don't care what they do, if they have sex with each other, animals, Borla exhaust, or inflating dolls, but there is absolutely no reason to comply to them, just because they are not ready to accept who they are and that what they are doing is just wrong.

Why do they need society's approval to do something what they like to do? Why do they need to make us think that what they're doing is right, and for that purpose are bending the norms just so that they can fit in it?
It's Surgeon General's T.M.I. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.M.I.) plot once again, and I don't accept it. Trey Parker has ingeniously addresses these trends in modern society.

BTW it in not the story just about LGBT, it's a tendency of every deviated person to make his behavior fit within the borders of what is normal. If he isn't acting proper, and he can't make himself proper (I'm not telling that he should), then he goes distorting reality in his head to fit his behavior, so that he can feel relieved. It is a common phenomenon in psychology when people manage to skew those little language boxes in their heads and to stretch 'em just as far as it's needed to fit in some concepts that cause them discomfort and anxiety while out.

So, they can't accept reality and they bend reality in their minds and that's fine, but they are not going to do it in mine.

If you don`t care what some people do, then why take the time to post it is .."wrong"? If you truly didn`t care, you would have read this thread and passed on.
As for people accepting who they are, I think they have already done this. I rather think it is you Ike, who will not accept who they are. You`re certainly not for giving all people equal freedom, that`s for sure. I think I recall you once saying that this section of the community, had already been given too much space. At least you are consistent in how ..little you care.
They do not as you put it, need societies approval. They [ LGBT people] are requesting the same rights, as the rest of society.
Throughout written history, we have seen heterosexual marriage celebrated. For the same length of time, there has been gay or lesbian relationships, it`s not new.
The difference is the gay or lesbian relationships were pushed to the edges of society. They were forced to conceal who they were.
Now however, they can be seen. And finally, they are being recognised in legislation..in a positive way.
Welcome to reality, Ike.

Florin C
23-01-14, 18:36
And me, who thought that the wooden language is something the communists excelled at...

Family can mean different things to different people.
I was talking about the family as the base cell of society (in good ol' wooden language). The framework in which children ar born and raised, and in which people support each other because they are related (by marriage and by blood). I was not talking about the extended family, or about the unfortunate families in which one (or maybe both) parents are missing. I was talking about the normal family, and not about the exceptions (although, in these „modern” times, exceptions tend to make the rule).

The LGBT propaganda is not after the right to marry or whatever rights they're claiming. They're after the right to be considered normal, and this is unacceptable. Single parenthood cannot be considered normal (and it is acceptable only because is the result of unfortunate events), because it's not a situation to be desired, all the more reason for gay parenthood to not be considered normal.

The first image of a child of what's normal (what is to be desired) in this world is the image of it's parents. Yes, there are actual (non gay related) cases in which a child's image of a parent is it's mother whoring herself, but I'm not talking about that either. In the normal (desired) situation, a child has the right to know what a mother or a father is, and not learn about it from the children of the block. Instead of society giving rights to gays to adopt children, it should prevent that unwanted children are born, and if they are, to provide them to families that want and can give them a sane image about what's normal (to be desired), and what's not.

I'm really not in the mood to go about what homosexuality is and where it is coming from. I'm only saying this: sexuality may be instinctive, but this doesn't mean it is not rational. There are rules and borders that sexuality cannot brake or cross (rape, incest, poligamy) and these are accepted as such, without someone saying they are limiting their rights. If you cannot fall in love with your mother and marry her, if you cannot marry all the 68 women you want to have sex with and have 148 legal children (why not, it's hapening in Utah), the same can be applied to gays.

Ike
23-01-14, 23:54
If you don`t care what some people do, then why take the time to post it is .."wrong"? If you truly didn`t care, you would have read this thread and passed on.
I may not care if you want to drink poison or shoot yourself in the head, but you're not going to do it in my yard.
And once again, I won't pass it on while it's bothering and endangering me.


As for people accepting who they are, I think they have already done this. I rather think it is you Ike, who will not accept who they are. You`re certainly not for giving all people equal freedom, that`s for sure.
Yes, I am not giving you that freedom, to do what you like, when it's immoral and perverted.


I think I recall you once saying that this section of the community, had already been given too much space. At least you are consistent in how ..little you care.
Yea, that was me. Gay people are better of me caring for them. Neither do I want to get entangled into their private stuff.


They do not as you put it, need societies approval. They [ LGBT people] are requesting the same rights, as the rest of society.
Same? OK, once you see me kissing a rubber doll at the playground do the same and tell me to get lost. That would be the same treatment.


Throughout written history, we have seen heterosexual marriage celebrated. For the same length of time, there has been gay or lesbian relationships, it`s not new.
The difference is the gay or lesbian relationships were pushed to the edges of society. They were forced to conceal who they were.
So, now you feel that everything about sex should be celebrated?


Now however, they can be seen. And finally, they are being recognised in legislation..in a positive way. Welcome to reality, Ike.
So is incest. Law gives you a freedom to have sex with you own sister and mother and brother in a wild orgy. No legal consequences. Do you also find that OK? It was also written about in the mythology.
Welcome to reality without Hope for the sane.

LeBrok
31-01-14, 03:41
I know. That's why they had to do what they did to Yugoslavia.



You're asking a question and giving a wrong answer. What does Lenin or communists have to do with conservatives and religion? Has he built any monasteries? Has he forbidden abortion? Has he forbidden females to vote? No, Lenin is more you're kind of person. A new age kid of guy.



You really don't believe when I tell you that we know everything? You are obviously not familiar with Balkan customs. I tried to give a brief explanation for the newcomers, but I wouldn't expect it from you.
Loan? For a $40K car?! Here? That's way off from reality. Why would you try to invent a most unrealistic explanation for something that is evident...




I've exactly accentuated that it is not the problem with homosexuality itself, but the hidden agenda that lies beneath it. Nobody is that uninformed to think that homosexuality alone can ruin world.



OMG, I sure hope you're right, but sadly it doesn't seem like it. All kinds of opportunists, perverts, agitators and neo-nacists are radiating the whole day from every media possible. No room for normal people.




Oh yes, it is collapsing. Females voters were a huge step for introduction of The new age democracy. Uneducated and emotional voters are being controlled from mass media, which is infiltrated by all kinds of CIA paid perverts. If we had just seen it earlier, how much evil was US culture to bring us, we could have stopped it on time. Russians have made a smart move (http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/12/26/russia-foreign-agents-law-hits-hundreds-ngos-updated-december-26-2013),but it's too late for my country. We have already been crushed.



And for those who has the guts to see what's behind all that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdroTzJMi94
I was going to respond in depth, but I think your words exposed your "humanity" enough, to say lightly.

LeBrok
31-01-14, 06:32
And me, who thought that the wooden language is something the communists excelled at...

The LGBT propaganda is not after the right to marry or whatever rights they're claiming. They're after the right to be considered normal, and this is unacceptable. Single parenthood cannot be considered normal (and it is acceptable only because is the result of unfortunate events), Well, till 200 years ago single parenthood was normal. Mortality was so high that sooner or later almost everybody was half an orphan, and older kids doubled as parents too. For most of humankind this was more normal than today's families. With 5 or 10 kid family no mother had time to read a book for goodnight, and real father worked all day, smelled like manure and had only time to smack kids around after hard day of work, well, often wife too. Yes, beating a wife was quite a norm too.


because it's not a situation to be desired, What, you want to follow human feelings all of the sudden? What about gay's desire?


all the more reason for gay parenthood to not be considered normal. Even if it is not normal, you still need to prove that they can't raise a normal kid, kid becoming a normal citizen. Only on these grounds, destructive to society, you can forbid adoption.



I'm really not in the mood to go about what homosexuality is and where it is coming from. I'm only saying this: sexuality may be instinctive, but this doesn't mean it is not rational. Tell me how one can rationally make his penis to stand up? I don't remember anyone teaching this trick; not at home, not in school, not even on the street. It is natural and automatic reaction to what our brain persuasives as sexual beauty.
Let me know how to rationally do it and we can explain it to all the gays, ok? We are going to make their lives an easy one like for the rest of us.



There are rules and borders that sexuality cannot brake or cross (rape, incest, poligamy) and these are accepted as such, without someone saying they are limiting their rights. If you cannot fall in love with your mother and marry her, if you cannot marry all the 68 women you want to have sex with and have 148 legal children (why not, it's hapening in Utah), the same can be applied to gays.


Today EU politics are promoting two ideas: euthanasia and incest. What will be next? Cannibalism?
All aspects of social life are evaluated in frame of effect on its strength, its well being. We can categorize it as benefits, neutral or negative/destructive forces. What is truly destructive never will be allowed or legalized. Less destructive could be allowed though, like marijuana; or traditional destructive like alcohol and cigarettes, although alcohol is slightly destructive in France or Italy and very destructive for people of nomadic or hunter-gatherer past.
Homosexuality marriage is neutral/positive. They can't procreate but can raise adopted children with no worse results than heterosexual couple. Do you have any statistics showing that adopted kids turning homosexual in homosexual families? I don't think so. And if it was true you would hear about this already, and I would have been against homosexual adoptions too.

I'm just not sure why people bring such ridiculous examples of human behaviors like rape and cannibalism to prove their point that the end of world is near, if we accept gay marriage? First of all rape is not a sex of two consenting adults, and I'm not sure what it has to do with equality of rights and privileges we are talking about on this thread?!
Cannibalism - do we have at least one organization advocating rights to eat human flesh? Oh, wait a minute, Christians eat body of Christ! It is already legalized, lol.
Seriously, why the hell even concern ourselves with such non-existing problem. I never heard of a lineup at the morgue to get a pound of human meat. For all people eating human flesh is repulsive by nature, and only known instances of cannibalism happened from prolonged starvation with nothing else to eat and religious ritual traditions of HG tribes (for spiritual unity with ancestors).

Polygamy is currently accepted on religious grounds like in Muslim countries or in Utah. It used to be beneficial for Arab society when there was shortage of men after prolonged wars during Muslim expansion. In peaceful times ratio men to women is roughly 1 to 1. For social harmony it is a better scenario if only monogamy is allowed, and for that reason polygamy never will be popular or widespread.

Marry one's mother? Please, another fantasy of yours. Look at these parades of sickos with "Let me marry my mother" transparent lol.

Should we talk about why psychopathic behaviour won't be legalized either?

LeBrok
31-01-14, 06:38
How about by bending the meaning of family, and what it means to society ? Do you think the family, consisting of a man and a woman (+ children), was created, by whoever created or instituted it, religion or not, to uphold „love” or whatever poetic crap ?

Love (it is a proven fact, over and over) doesn't last very long. The rest of a marriage (if it's not broken right there and then after the love is gone, like it's happening more and more often nowadays in the „civilised” West) is interest, and the preservation of it. The interest to see your children grown up and settled down, the interest to have someone to lean on in times of need and not get an ulcer because you don't have anyone to ask for help, and so on.

Ouch, your sole is as dark as your avatar. I'm afraid you never really loved anyone. You are either too young or had really bad experiences. Sorry to hear that.

nurset
04-02-14, 14:46
Hey nurset, what do you think about Women Rights movement and emancipation 100 years ago? After all it was a radical idea, going against old tradition, against traditional values, against church position, and many called women incapable of making their own decisions or political thoughts, working outside the home was called distraction of family, and all the movement was called immoral and satanic, marxist or masonic idea.
Well, sound familiar? And look, the world didn't collapse.
It was only scary for people because it was something new and different.

LeBrok, actually this question was well discussed in mass media, different magazines, talk shows... I have already said my view. See Overton technology. The society gradually accepted women's rights and the “world didn't collapse”. Being a woman I totally support this historical step made by civilization.
But I wonder how our society was manipulated by Vatican that women were just men's slaves and housekeepers. Who were women before church updated the Bible in their interest? They had equal rights with men!
We should look deeper into the problem. We should find its roots and everything become clear.

hope
04-02-14, 15:12
Being a woman I totally support this historical step made by civilization..
Why?


Who were women before church updated the Bible in their interest? They had equal rights with men!
We should look deeper into the problem. We should find its roots and everything become clear.
Now, now, nurset, you can`t have it both ways. You can`t give the impression of approving those firm christian traditions who are against gay union, as you did in post 1 and then slam those same christian traditions when they go against what you personally believe in....standing on thin ice and cherry picking comes to mind.

FBS
04-02-14, 15:51
Just a food for thought:

One thing bugs me really, regarding the Abrahamic religions. Why is there such a deep hatred at the core of them against the women? Why did the church declare that Maria Magdalena was a whore???And why should catholic priests and nuns (including Pope) not get married? Undercover gay? Hm....Same goes for the Muslims, in Pakistan for eg you can see men holding hands but it is forbidden by law to see the opposite sex holding hands in public and kissing, not even dare to think a bout it?

So, I have come to the conclusion that man love towards another man (and adoration) is quite amazing. Even the percentages of gay man are higher globally then of women. All these "all men clubs", "all men societies", "let us keep women away", "let us not allow them to vote ore run a country", "let us have them covered" so that men do not get astray and love a woman, God forbid...quite funny isn't it?

nurset
04-02-14, 16:31
.
Now, now, nurset, you can`t have it both ways. You can`t give the impression of approving those firm christian traditions who are against gay union, as you did in post 1 and then slam those same christian traditions when they go against what you personally believe in....standing on thin ice and cherry picking comes to mind.

I believe only in myself. My personal view is that homosexual love is unacceptable. Just imagine how homosexual parents will grow their children if they ever have children. I stand for traditional family. LGBT members could do whatever they want but they should leave our children. Gay propaganda should be restricted.

FBS
04-02-14, 17:14
I believe only in myself. My personal view is that homosexual love is unacceptable. Just imagine how homosexual parents will grow their children if they ever have children. I stand for traditional family. LGBT members could do whatever they want but they should leave our children. Gay propaganda should be restricted.
Traditional family, where dad is forbidden to tell that is gay, and will torture his wife and kids because being gay is forbidden! If gay is wrong why would God make such a mistake in the first place by having them among us? Isn't' everything created by God? So you are against God as well as everyone else in this world. Sounds like full blown ego to me...

At the end of the day we are what we are, and when we try to get in someone elses' business we loose, because we do not live our own lives since we are consumed with hatred towards a certain group of people by wanting to tell others how should they be. Get a life...live your own life, and let others be.

hope
04-02-14, 17:33
I believe only in myself. My personal view is that homosexual love is unacceptable. Just imagine how homosexual parents will grow their children if they ever have children. I stand for traditional family. LGBT members could do whatever they want but they should leave our children. Gay propaganda should be restricted.

Self belief is an important thing, nurset.
Sometimes it is hard to believe in yourself. Some people can have trouble with this, such as if they are made to feel different, have nothing to offer, or are unworthy of things. So by all means believe in yourself, but allow others the same right to do so,without placing negative "tags" on them.
We all of us have opinions on what we personally see as right or wrong. However we should take care we don`t fall into the false thought that, what we think is right, is what others should likewise, see as right. If this were to be the case, we women may not have obtained our rights of sexual equality , for we know there were many who, for the reasons they believed in, thought it wrong.

LeBrok
04-02-14, 19:03
I believe only in myself. My personal view is that homosexual love is unacceptable. Just imagine how homosexual parents will grow their children if they ever have children. Do you know that your personal views on gays might be as wrong as catholic church on treatment of women? That's why we should put some facts forward, if not full science, basing our conclusions more empirically than our imagination and fears. Don't you think?
I'll ask you again, how do you know that gays will raise their kids wrong way? Do you know personally any gay couple raising kids?
Befor women's equal rights many men believed it was wrong, against traditional family, and confusing for women.


I stand for traditional family
Please explain what traditional family you mean? From 1960s? From 1800s? or something else? Family from 60s was very modern when compared to Victorian times. It is only traditional fro you because you grew up in this time period, I suppose. (there is also a psychological reason why we like the world of our childhood the best) By no means it was some kind of universal standard which lasted from creation of the world. It was very progressive with women equal rights and equal right for other races (in USA mixed race families started to be acceptable).

Ike
04-02-14, 19:29
Traditional family, where dad is forbidden to tell that is gay, and will torture his wife and kids because being gay is forbidden! If gay is wrong why would God make such a mistake in the first place by having them among us? Isn't' everything created by God? So you are against God as well as everyone else in this world. Sounds like full blown ego to me..

Why do we have schizos, paranoids or criminally insane people? God made them all. That doesn't mean it's normal and that society should fulfill every caprice of the deviants.

LeBrok
04-02-14, 19:56
Why do we have schizos, paranoids or criminally insane people? God made them all. That doesn't mean it's normal and that society should fulfill every caprice of the deviants.
That's true. On what scale then did you measure that gay behaviour or rights is negative for society? Do you have any empirical evidence or only your imagination and fear of anything different than you grew up with?
Could you define your definition of normal please?
And pay attantion that we are not talking about pedofilia, canibalizm or psychopathic torture.

kamani
04-02-14, 20:30
Society has much more serious problems than a few sexually different people. This topic always gets attention way out of proportion. For the sake of the truth however, they are very dangerous towards each-other because a large percentage of them has the HIV virus. Who is really dangerous for society is a promiscuous bisexual male, because he can carry HIV from the gay community to the straight one.

FBS
04-02-14, 21:43
Why do we have schizos, paranoids or criminally insane people? God made them all. That doesn't mean it's normal and that society should fulfill every caprice of the deviants.
Are you saying that God allmighty can make mistakes? Are you judging Gods work? That sounds like blasphemy.

Anton, Bear's den
11-02-14, 20:58
After reading nurset's comments I wanna go to German Hospital http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/laughing.gif

Women looks too beautiful in our century to be gay

Ike
11-02-14, 21:56
That's true. On what scale then did you measure that gay behaviour or rights is negative for society? Do you have any empirical evidence or only your imagination and fear of anything different than you grew up with?
Could you define your definition of normal please?
And pay attantion that we are not talking about pedofilia, canibalizm or psychopathic torture.

Why not? Why are you always looking things black and white from sociological point of view. We are all humans. Some of us would like to have sex with 20 year old girls, some of with 17, some of us are attracted to 14teen year olds, and some dream of certain 10 year olds. That all doesn't necessarily mean they'll make it happen. Some think it's wrong and suppress their desires, some are aware it's against the law and don't do it for that reason.

Any pedophilia would be perfectly legal on a deserted island with only two inhabitants who are in consensual sexual relationship. What makes it illegal is the presence of the society around. But whether illegal or not, it still doesn't make it normal. Pedophilia was legal in Ancient Greece. Do you think it was normal behavior?

Normal and deviant are defined with Gaussian bell curve. Abnormal is what makes you uncomfortable. I don't know if your joking with me here or there is something wrong with you, if you don't feel the need to vomit on the sight of two males touching each other for sexual pleasure.


Are you saying that God allmighty can make mistakes? Are you judging Gods work? That sounds like blasphemy.
Never have I said those are his mistakes. I'm sure that he, if he exists, would know a perfectly good reasons why they are here.

LeBrok
12-02-14, 05:03
Why not? Why are you always looking things black and white from sociological point of view. We are all humans. Some of us would like to have sex with 20 year old girls, some of with 17, some of us are attracted to 14teen year olds, and some dream of certain 10 year olds. That all doesn't necessarily mean they'll make it happen. Some think it's wrong and suppress their desires, some are aware it's against the law and don't do it for that reason. The age of consent is a fairly new rule. In times of "traditional families" girls were married at 15 and sometimes at 13 (still in India). In today's world I prefer if we use empirical evidence to set rules and ethics, with as much dose of social liberties as possible. I would gladly move age of consent for first sex till age 21, but this is my opinion. I don't believe there was any research done on this topic to set things right.


Any pedophilia would be perfectly legal on a deserted island with only two inhabitants who are in consensual sexual relationship. What makes it illegal is the presence of the society around. But whether illegal or not, it still doesn't make it normal. Pedophilia was legal in Ancient Greece. Do you think it was normal behavior? I guess you are helping my argument. You were the one who wanted to judge morality on scale of normal behaviour. I want to use empirical evidence if it is harmful to society or not. So far gay marriage and adoption of children passes the test.


Normal and deviant are defined with Gaussian bell curve. Abnormal is what makes you uncomfortable. I don't know if your joking with me here or there is something wrong with you, if you don't feel the need to vomit on the sight of two males touching each other for sexual pleasure. Yes I twitch when two guys are kissing in front of me. It doesn't mean this type of behavior is harmful for my society. I also twitch and can't swallow dishes made of cow's tongue or monkey brain. It doesn't mean that these things are not nutritional and good for me. It might be the thing that, in both cases I'm against psychological block in my head of something I'm not used to, something new, something different. By these examples, we can assume that in either case my feelings don't make me right or wrong, neither in culinary nor ethical sense.

Ike
12-02-14, 20:50
I guess you are helping my argument. You were the one who wanted to judge morality on scale of normal behaviour. I want to use empirical evidence if it is harmful to society or not. So far gay marriage and adoption of children passes the test.

What test? Who set the rules? The need for the test is only for the ones who think that activity is normal and are aiming to prove that consecutive practice will produce normal results. I don't care about the outcome of the test. I'm saying that those activities are abnormal despite the results of any tests. Why? Because it's just disgusting. Fore details see example below, and I'm certain you too would come out with many more similar disgusting, immoral or 'plain wrong' examples.



Yes I twitch when two guys are kissing in front of me. It doesn't mean this type of behavior is harmful for my society. I also twitch and can't swallow dishes made of cow's tongue or monkey brain. It doesn't mean that these things are not nutritional and good for me. It might be the thing that, in both cases I'm against psychological block in my head of something I'm not used to, something new, something different. By these examples, we can assume that in either case my feelings don't make me right or wrong, neither in culinary nor ethical sense.

So, I guess you would also twitch when you see a man eating his excrements, but you are too open minded to stand against that abnormal but yet legal activity?

Maleth
26-03-14, 19:59
What test? Who set the rules? The need for the test is only for the ones who think that activity is normal and are aiming to prove that consecutive practice will produce normal results. I don't care about the outcome of the test. I'm saying that those activities are abnormal despite the results of any tests. Why? Because it's just disgusting. Fore details see example below, and I'm certain you too would come out with many more similar disgusting, immoral or 'plain wrong' examples.




So, I guess you would also twitch when you see a man eating his excrements, but you are too open minded to stand against that abnormal but yet legal activity?

I am a homosexual I had a partner for the last 14 years and we dont eat excrement and have respectable jobs. I find your remarks very offensive and do you have any particular reason for spewing all this hate? what is your agenda?!!!

LeBrok
26-03-14, 20:39
I am a homosexual I had a partner for the last 14 years and we dont eat excrement and have respectable jobs. I find your remarks very offensive and do you have any particular reason for spewing all this hate? what is your agenda?!!!
He has a general dislike for anything not resembling the world of his youth. His flag says Yugoslavia, it denotes super conservatism and romanticizing the past. I'm not sure about Yugoslavia in particular, but usually communist regimes denied existence of homosexuality in their countries, only a product of sick and rotting western world, or admitted existence but made it an antisocial and criminal activity. He grew up in such homophobic climate and as super conservative is incapable of accepting any changes

LeBrok
26-03-14, 20:56
What test? Who set the rules? The need for the test is only for the ones who think that activity is normal and are aiming to prove that consecutive practice will produce normal results. I don't care about the outcome of the test. I'm saying that those activities are abnormal despite the results of any tests. Why? Because it's just disgusting. Fore details see example below, and I'm certain you too would come out with many more similar disgusting, immoral or 'plain wrong' examples.
If I got it right, you don't care what science might conclude or basic statistics, and you go with your sense of taste as ultimate guidance of morality. You would be a perfect dictator, lol.



[QUOTE]So, I guess you would also twitch when you see a man eating his excrements, but you are too open minded to stand against that abnormal but yet legal activity? Why should you? It is legal, and in some cases a medical need, if your own bacterial flora is destroyed. Are you saying you would criminalized eating excrements? Normal people wouldn't even consider moving a finger for such marginal thing. Do you think this activity will be contagious and destructive enough and lead to demise of society?

Ike
27-03-14, 11:38
I am a homosexual I had a partner for the last 14 years and we dont eat excrement and have respectable jobs. I find your remarks very offensive and do you have any particular reason for spewing all this hate? what is your agenda?!!!

There is no hate. It is just decisiveness to call things what they are and stick to the proper terminology.

Why the hell would even consider that eating excrements has anything to do with gays?! That was a parallel for my slightly closed mind friend LeBrok. You know - when you say that "if you drop an apple it falls down, and if you drop scissors they fall down. If you can eat an apple, that doesn't mean that you should try to eat scissors just on the basis of the previos parameter that they share."



He has a general dislike for anything not resembling the world of his youth. His flag says Yugoslavia, it denotes super conservatism and romanticizing the past. I'm not sure about Yugoslavia in particular, but usually communist regimes denied existence of homosexuality in their countries, only a product of sick and rotting western world, or admitted existence but made it an antisocial and criminal activity. He grew up in such homophobic climate and as super conservative is incapable of accepting any changes

My God, you talk like society was born 100 years ago, and that before that we all lived in caves, and had no knowledge of anything. We know everything about homosexuality for millenniums. It is not my fault that Western nation denied it for decades and feel bad for molesting all that gay people, and are now super-compensating for that.

Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.

And just because "in 1974. Martin Kafka writes, 'Sexual disorders once considered paraphilias (e.g., homosexuality) are now regarded as variants of normal sexuality.'" that doesn't make sexual disorders normal.

FBS
27-03-14, 12:34
Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.


You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

Maleth
28-03-14, 00:54
[QUOTE=Ike;426442]What test? Who set the rules? The need for the test is only for the ones who think that activity is normal and are aiming to prove that consecutive practice will produce normal results. I don't care about the outcome of the test. I'm saying that those activities are abnormal despite the results of any tests. Why? Because it's just disgusting. Fore details see example below, and I'm certain you too would come out with many more similar disgusting, immoral or 'plain wrong' examples.




Is this the correct terminology you are referring to Ike? No hate you say? I guess you think that having blue yes or red hair is abnormal too with the correct terminology. Were do you get your education from exactly?

Maleth
28-03-14, 01:01
You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

Spot on FBS the same pattern happens in many countries due to bullying and intimidation and sheer ignorance and all the persecution it brings with it.

LeBrok
28-03-14, 05:30
slightly closed mind friend LeBrok. You know Lol, I'll take it as a complement.


If you can eat an apple, that doesn't mean that you should try to eat scissors just on the basis of the previos parameter that they share." Exactly. We know by experience of others and many hospitalisations (science) that eating sharp metal objects is not good for us. There is not even one positive example of benefit to human health of eating scissors. Now shouldn't same measure of positive and negative outcomes apply to gay marriage? You shouldn't rely on your opinion, traditions and emotions when it comes to such complicated dilemma, should you?



My God, you talk like society was born 100 years ago, and that before that we all lived in caves, and had no knowledge of anything. When you compare scientific progress, of last 100 years, we didn't know much, especially in medical field. Freud was still popular and so was dr. Kellogg.



We know everything about homosexuality for millenniums. And we knew that best marriage is arranged, that drinking mercury cures maladies, that we can save heretic's sole in bonfire, sickness comes from curses and voodoo, you talk to ghosts through psychics, earth is a center of universe, etc, etc Don't you think we might have been wrong about homosexuality too?


Yugoslavia was not a homophobic state. Society treated homosexuality exactly as it should be - as a qualitative sexual disorder. And no gay people suffered any legal consequences just for being gay.
lol, I was wrong about criminal code for gays in Yugoslavia, they were locked in Asylums and Institutes.


And just because "in 1974. Martin Kafka writes, 'Sexual disorders once considered paraphilias (e.g., homosexuality) are now regarded as variants of normal sexuality.'" that doesn't make sexual disorders normal. Neither it makes a person with third nipple normal. But it doesn't mean it will ruin your society, and neither gay marriage. Once again you judge this issue with nothing more than your feelings and prejudiced, and it is not enough for an intelligent decision.

Ike
29-03-14, 20:41
You are kidding right? There were "no homos" in YU, no one dared to come out as gay, we were totally oblivious to it. There were only hush-hush talking, and that was all. Many were forced into marriages just to cover up, because of the pressure of the society. And it is still difficult to be gay in ex-YU countries.

Yeah, rural parts of Balkans lived by Customary law, and still do. You know that exactly on the example of blood feuds which were common among Albanians or Montenegrins. It is also obvious on the example of cousin marriage. Even though state law allowed marriage among 3rd cousins, Church law didn't allow marriage of 4th cousins, but Custom law didn't allow intermarriage up to 6-9th cousins depending on the area. (note that I'm not sure anymore about exact numbers in the last sentence.)

On the other hand, there were gay people living in the cities, and everyone knew they are gay and they suffered no consequences for that. Some of them were known since the late 1970-ies. Simply nobody minded their business. Once foreign countries interfered in Yugoslavian internal business and started pressuring "to give more right to the people" first incidents started to happen. People who already had all the rights they needed felt free to disturb others with their own "ideas" - and that's when we had outburst of all kinds of "-isms" which eventually resulted in the worse situation than before. Current position of gays is I suppose worse then in Yugoslavia.



Is this the correct terminology you are referring to Ike? No hate you say? I guess you think that having blue yes or red hair is abnormal too with the correct terminology. Were do you get your education from exactly?

Yes, we could even talk about hair color in similar terms, but let's not spread around subjects too much. It seems like you have a problem accepting of who you are. You just don't want to accept that you have strange sexual affiliations, and you're asking the society to bend the definitions so that they could fit reality in which you would be "by the book". Get over it dude. Accept that what you're doing is immoral and disgusting and get on with your life. Why do you need anybodies approval for that?

People usually don't hate you for what you are, but are starting to hate you because you're being aggressive in your intention to suck the approval out of them :)


Exactly. We know by experience of others and many hospitalisations (science) that eating sharp metal objects is not good for us. There is not even one positive example of benefit to human health of eating scissors. Now shouldn't same measure of positive and negative outcomes apply to gay marriage? You shouldn't rely on your opinion, traditions and emotions when it comes to such complicated dilemma, should you?

It is the opinion of all the competent people without political agenda or paycheck from NGO :)


When you compare scientific progress, of last 100 years, we didn't know much, especially in medical field. Freud was still popular and so was dr. Kellogg.

And we knew that best marriage is arranged, that drinking mercury cures maladies, that we can save heretic's sole in bonfire, sickness comes from curses and voodoo, you talk to ghosts through psychics, earth is a center of universe, etc, etc Don't you think we might have been wrong about homosexuality too?

lol, I was wrong about criminal code for gays in Yugoslavia, they were locked in Asylums and Institutes.


1. You can name 1000 things that people were wrong about in the history. I can name 1000 that they were right for. That leads nowhere.
2. Off course they were not. Name some.


Neither it makes a person with third nipple normal. But it doesn't mean it will ruin your society, and neither gay marriage.
I agree. Off course it won't by itself. I'm worried about cognitive discrepancy that will arise in the mind of human while trying to compare the external reality with false terminology that's being asserted.



Once again you judge this issue with nothing more than your feelings and prejudiced, and it is not enough for an intelligent decision.
Well, on the other hand, I think that you do that. I think that you feel sorry for the gays, and want to comply and patronize them by doing something that would make 'em feel better about themselves.

Maleth
30-03-14, 11:23
It seems like you have a problem accepting of who you are. You just don't want to accept that you have strange sexual affiliations, and you're asking the society to bend the definitions so that they could fit reality in which you would be "by the book". Get over it dude. Accept that what you're doing is immoral and disgusting and get on with your life. Why do you need anybodies approval for that?

Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' :) its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.

Wilhelm
30-03-14, 16:37
I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorret to say this, but it's the truth.

LeBrok
30-03-14, 18:20
Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' :) its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.
There might be something to it. There was a case or two in US parlament few years ago, and many more around the globe, of most oposed to homesexuality and gay marriage politicians turned to by gay. Especially gays, who are also religious devotees, who fight the "demon of homosexualty" inside them all their life, are the most dangerous and against homosexuality.

LeBrok
30-03-14, 18:21
I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorret to say this, but it's the truth.
You don't suppose we, the society, should hide everything that you don't like and makes you angry?

FBS
30-03-14, 19:27
In average there is a higher percentage of men being gay rather then women. I am afraid there are much more gay men then they dare to admit, whatever the circumstances or the reasons may be. Why would there be otherwise so much women haters? Why did church have to declare Maria Magdalena as a whore, or why would Eve had to be declared as of a lesser value and a problem maker, why celibacy, or why do Arab women have to be covered. I am all for gay freedom, and hopefully these women haters will finally be free to admit that they are actually gay. Same goes for women who are man haters.

Ike
31-03-14, 01:57
Please don't worry about me Ike, I truly have no problem and not aware of asking for any approval in my few posts I managed to post here, before you started insulting me. Im very comfortable with who I am and surrounded by people who are comfortable about themselves whether they are hetero or homo. I guess I am lucky, unlike those that live in repressive environments. What a shame. Have you ever read the study that 'Homophobes might be hidden homosexuals?' :) its not allowing me to post you the link but you can make a quick search.

As same, don't worry about me. If I turn gay one day, I'll have no problem admitting myself what I'm doing. I won't ask the society to make every one of my sexual fantasy socially acceptable. Mmm... "Young naked men, submerged in strawberry gravy - lovers association" here I come :)

Maleth
31-03-14, 04:14
As same, don't worry about me. If I turn gay one day, I'll have no problem admitting myself what I'm doing. I won't ask the society to make every one of my sexual fantasy socially acceptable. Mmm... "Young naked men, submerged in strawberry gravy - lovers association" here I come :)

sure sure you wont be the first. Double and secret lives are quite common so I will not be worried about you..... You buy the strawberry gravy? or is it something you do at home?

Maleth
31-03-14, 04:29
I don't understand all of this homosexual propaganda and obsession that is going on in Western countries, it's total madness. I don't care about a persona orientation is not my business, but don't shove to our faces all of this bullshit, because first of all homosexuality is a minority, don't even make 10% of the population, and second thing, it's not a normal thing as they want to make it, it's a deviation of what should the normal sexuality (meant for reproduction and mating), it's politically incorrect to say this, but it's the truth.

I don't think that, for example anyone shoved this thread in your face......who opened it, did not have propaganda in mind - rather the contrary....at the same time you were interested enough to comment and you have every right to. So you think others don't?

Maleth
31-03-14, 04:56
There might be something to it. There was a case or two in US parlament few years ago, and many more around the globe, of most oposed to homesexuality and gay marriage politicians turned to by gay. Especially gays, who are also religious devotees, who fight the "demon of homosexualty" inside them all their life, are the most dangerous and against homosexuality.

I know a couple of first hand cases locally too. And I wont delve into the religious devotees issue!!!..............

Ike
03-04-14, 13:00
sure sure you wont be the first. Double and secret lives are quite common so I will not be worried about you..... You buy the strawberry gravy? or is it something you do at home?

If all were allowed to do what they like in public, a war would broke up in a month. If you can't be civilized and keep your peculiarities and habits for yourself, it means that you're not ready for a moder society, in which people are carrying about each other and are ready to make a compromise sometimes.

As for the gravy, it is something Balkan people like to do themselves but I hear that EU has very strong laws against homemade stuff.

Maleth
05-04-14, 15:30
If all were allowed to do what they like in public, a war would broke up in a month. If you can't be civilized and keep your peculiarities and habits for yourself, it means that you're not ready for a moder society, in which people are carrying about each other and are ready to make a compromise sometimes.

As for the gravy, it is something Balkan people like to do themselves but I hear that EU has very strong laws against homemade stuff.

(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!)

We cook lots of good delicious stuff at home. I have Balkan friends and I know they do too :)

LeBrok
05-04-14, 17:18
(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!)

We cook lots of good delicious stuff at home. I have Balkan friends and I know they do too :)
An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

Maleth
05-04-14, 17:44
An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

Canada is a fine example too ;)

Ike
07-04-14, 02:14
(just an example) Denmark had civil union since 1989 and well on the forefront of civil liberties. Its one of the richest countries in the world and has been voted happiest country late last year. Do you have an idea when the war is going to break out and would become a modern country please? In the meantime I will do my best to figure out what you mean by peculiarities and civilization and do what I a want to do in public (!

Well, you ain't gonna do it here.
Yeah gay~ cheerfull, happy I get it. Go get happy all that you want. We don't measure happiness here with the amount of money and all around gayness.




An excellent example! 25 years into gay liberties and equalization and no smallest sign of societal collapse in Denmark. On other hands countries of strongest "traditional family" values not doing so well.
What does that mean Ike?

It means exactly what I've said near the end of my post #45 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29477-LGBT-society-in-Europe-you-attitude?p=428865&viewfull=1#post428865).

And once again - your measurement of "doing well" does not equal other people's measurement of doing well. As I've told you I don't care for God or traditional values. This has got nothing to do with any of that.

LeBrok
07-04-14, 02:31
And once again - your measurement of "doing well" does not equal other people's measurement of doing well. As I've told you I don't care for God or traditional values. This has got nothing to do with any of that.

I'm glad you changed your mind.

And it' not just about them, LGBT are just tip of the iceberg. Enormous amount of money is directed into mass media and NGO to undermine traditional values of our European societies

Maleth
07-04-14, 09:31
Well, you ain't gonna do it here.
Yeah gay~ cheerfull, happy I get it. Go get happy all that you want. We don't measure happiness here with the amount of money and all around gayness.

Of course not, as long as Yugoslavia remains one country it will not happen. I do understand that. In the meantime wishing you very cheerful days :)

Ike
09-04-14, 21:17
I'm glad you changed your mind.

Why do you act like you don't understand?

You know exactly that money that is sent to undermine traditional societies has nothing to do with the plain "traditionalism" of certain society. Traditionalism is seen as a problem only because it stops US infiltrate their agents which could more easily assert their New age slavery model.

For that purpose I will back up traditionalists and conservatives all the way. Even with guns.

Ike
09-04-14, 21:21
Of course not, as long as Yugoslavia remains one country it will not happen. I do understand that. In the meantime wishing you very cheerful days :)

You too :) And keep in mind - You don't have to be gay to be happy :D

LeBrok
09-04-14, 23:16
Why do you act like you don't understand?

You know exactly that money that is sent to undermine traditional societies has nothing to do with the plain "traditionalism" of certain society. Traditionalism is seen as a problem only because it stops US infiltrate their agents which could more easily assert their New age slavery model. I don't see the money changed your mind. Maybe there is no money? Honestly, who in US cares to change Serbians' minds?!!! You're not that special, as you think.


For that purpose I will back up traditionalists and conservatives all the way. Even with guns.We knew all along, you are tradition "nazi".

Maleth
10-04-14, 14:45
You too :) And keep in mind - You don't have to be gay to be happy :D

When did I say the opposite? My Serb brother in law is a happy person too - I have no doubt :cheer:

Engel
11-04-14, 04:15
LGBT
My opinion and I find it disgusting.
Its also abomination in God's Eyes

Maleth
11-04-14, 11:33
LGBT
My opinion and I find it disgusting.
Its also abomination in God's Eyes

Surely not like the lovely lady in the Pic. She really did not think so :)

and re abomination is this the god you are referring to?

(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Ike
11-04-14, 18:47
I don't see the money changed your mind. Maybe there is no money? Honestly, who in US cares to change Serbians' minds?!!! You're not that special, as you think.

Oh, they do care to change them. They care so very much. BTW, I'm not Serbian.


We knew all along, you are tradition "nazi".

Yeah, great example of logic:thinking:Do you also think that if Arnold Schwarzenegger supported lesbians, would make him lesbian too?