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View Full Version : Z59+/Z60- is a lonely place at the I1 haplogroup tree



Wimpy
11-02-14, 18:46
As far as I can see there's only a few people tested Z59+ and Z60-
I'm CTS8674+ and ordered now F3916 which seems the only relevant SNP I didn't test yet. Unless I overlook something?

Is there anyone else here Z59+/Z60-?

sparkey
11-02-14, 20:45
Nordtvedt gives a good visualization of Z58+ Z60-, including Z59+ Z60-, here (http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/) on his "Tree for I1 Z58+ Z60-."

What's unusual doesn't seem to be Z59+ Z60-, since that includes the AS3, AS10, AS13, and Sw clusters, along with assorted outliers. What's unusual is CTS8647+ Z60-. Nordtvedt lists only two families who have tested like that: Callewaert and Fueller, neither closely related to one another. Both are singleton outliers dating back some 3500 years! You're right that F3916 seems to be all that you have left to test... not enough people to compare against to find any more SNPs.

Wimpy
12-02-14, 20:13
Thank you for the confirmation.
I am Callewaert indeed and the other one Fueller is F3916+ I believe.
How did you get that age of 3500 years? Is that the supposed age of Z60?

sparkey
12-02-14, 21:22
Thank you for the confirmation.
I am Callewaert indeed and the other one Fueller is F3916+ I believe.
How did you get that age of 3500 years? Is that the supposed age of Z60?

Nordtvedt has those ages in his tree. He gets them using your STR data and his Generations method. Obviously it's an estimate that's particularly volatile when using so few samples. The age is the approximate TMRCA of CTS8647, which Nordtvedt gives at actually a bit over 3500 years, with Z60, Callewaert, and Fueller all roughly just as far from each other.

Arthur747
01-03-14, 21:41
Hi , I am CTS8647+ Z60+ Z59+ and a lot more. rgds Arthur

Wimpy
25-03-14, 22:05
Thanks Arthur.
Last week I received my F3916 result, I'm negative for that SNP.
Where did your oldest known ancestor came from?

Wim

lreisdorph
09-05-14, 23:30
We're Z59+ Z60- but also PF856+. FTDNA says we're CTS8674- (but we didn't test for yet it).

I agree it's a lonely place, in that I can't seem to find more information and I want more! :) Patience, I know. What I get out of what I've seen is that this is Saxons who didn't migrate to England, etc. Does that sound right?

eslmeister
09-04-15, 18:01
I-Z59 here. Father's paternal line from near Swaffham, NW Norfolk, left in 1854. Viking blood, I guess. Love to hear from other I-Z59 men.

sparkey
09-04-15, 21:48
I-Z59 here. Father's paternal line from near Swaffham, NW Norfolk, left in 1854. Viking blood, I guess. Love to hear from other I-Z59 men.

Welcome eslmeister!

I'd guess I1-Z59 to be Anglo-Saxon rather than Viking, especially for someone with a paternal line from a place as Anglo-Saxon as Norfolk. Do you know if you are Z60+ or Z60-?

eslmeister
13-04-15, 01:26
Thanks, Sparkey. I don't think I have data on Z60. The familytreeDNA chart (tree?) just has a blue square on the right with the word Add, which I think means I'd have top pay for additional testing. Same for I-X140, I-F2542, I-L592, I-YSC0000261, I-L338 etc. etc. etc. Is it worth it?

Thanks too for the suggestion re Anglo-Saxon. mtDNA is H42. The hot spot for that nowadays seems to be in Ukraine/Russia. Anything implied here?

Bill

sparkey
14-04-15, 22:45
Thanks, Sparkey. I don't think I have data on Z60. The familytreeDNA chart (tree?) just has a blue square on the right with the word Add, which I think means I'd have top pay for additional testing. Same for I-X140, I-F2542, I-L592, I-YSC0000261, I-L338 etc. etc. etc. Is it worth it?

Depends on what your goal is. If you're mainly interested in discovering the ancient origins of your paternal line, then you've already found out that it probably comes from a branch of some of the oldest Europeans, that it later probably became associated with Germanic peoples, and that it most likely spread to Britain with the Anglo-Saxons. You don't need a Z60 test to figure out more there.

But if your goal is to find out precisely where you belong on the Y-DNA tree, and which other families are most closely related to yours, a Z60 test might help. But before I'd suggest for you to purchase a Z60 test, I'd recommend getting further guidance. Assuming that you've taken a STR test (since you're talking about FTDNA) I'd recommend that you join the I1 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/yDNA_I1) and see where they place you based on your STRs. You may or may not be able to reasonably skip Z60 in favor of a more precise SNP.


Thanks too for the suggestion re Anglo-Saxon. mtDNA is H42. The hot spot for that nowadays seems to be in Ukraine/Russia. Anything implied here?

I can't say I know much about H42, but I will say that it's more difficult to draw any conclusions from mtDNA, due to the nature of its lesser bottlenecking and lack of STR type measurables.

tiggione
28-02-16, 21:06
hi I do have Z60/Z189/Z2069/L533

RobertColumbia
05-03-16, 07:19
hi I do have Z60/Z189/Z2069/L533

We don't know. Did you have a DNA test done? If you did, are you able to share with us the name of the test you took and what results you were provided?

Do you believe that you have y-haplogroup I1? I1 is fairly rare in Turkey, with J2 and R1b being much more common.

gcrete
19-11-16, 19:46
I-Z59 here. Father's paternal line from near Swaffham, NW Norfolk, left in 1854. Viking blood, I guess. Love to hear from other I-Z59 men.


I am Z59. Believe my paternal line to be from Germany but trying to confirm. My ancestor arrived in the US in the 1700's and then became a Loyalist and moved to Canada.

mwauthy
08-12-16, 15:39
Im first generation american but can trace my paternity to wallonia belgium to 1600. Im z59-z2041-z2040. My surname is a french version of old high german walthari. Im assuming my haplogroup came with the Franks but slight chance maybe with the normans

Apsurdistan
13-04-17, 07:38
i got Iz63 from Geno 2.0
I'm Bosnian...
Am I rare like a polar bear?

gallienus
19-08-17, 22:50
As far as I can see there's only a few people tested Z59+ and Z60-
I'm CTS8674+ and ordered now F3916 which seems the only relevant SNP I didn't test yet. Unless I overlook something?

Is there anyone else here Z59+/Z60-?

I've tested I-Z59. I presume this is Z59+/Z60-. My earliest paternal ancestor for which I have a paper trail is Johann Friedrich LANGENBERG (1789-1836), of Hochdorf bei Blankenhain, in what was then Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach, today the state of Türingen, Germany. Since there were individuals named LANGENBERG in Hochdorf as early as the 16th and 17th centuries, I assume that they were my people. Ultimately, I think the surname comes from the place name Langenberg, near Gera. I speculate that before they were there (in Langenberg/Gera) they had migrated from farther north and west in that Saxon North Sea area where I-Z59 probably comes from.

David Langenberg
Newark, DE

mwauthy
20-08-17, 01:42
I-Z59 is about 4600 years old and probably has an origin in Scandinavia since it's found there as well. You should test your lower subclades to see if you are Z2041 -> Z2040 -> Z382 -> S26361 -> S16414 -> FGC24357. Myself and another forum member are FGC24357 a few levels below you.

bobbyau
03-12-17, 11:18
LivingDNA gives my group as Z60. Earliest direct ancestor with paper trail, late 1600's - GAMBRILL (variations of) Kent, England, UK. Possibly came over from France due to fighting during this time. I am also waiting on my 67Y-DNA test from ftDNA, due this month.

arend
05-12-17, 21:28
my ftdna haplogroup is fgc24357 , my paternal family can be traced back to the coast of holland up to 1475 which could be a settlement of vikings (600 years earlier) but it can also be other germanic tribes
does anybody knows more about z382 and its subclades or where to find information about it

lreisdorph
07-12-17, 03:40
We're Z59+, Z60- and CTS8647-

mwauthy
08-12-17, 01:38
my ftdna haplogroup is fgc24357 , my paternal family can be traced back to the coast of holland up to 1475 which could be a settlement of vikings (600 years earlier) but it can also be other germanic tribes
does anybody knows more about z382 and its subclades or where to find information about it

Hello FGC24357 cousin. That makes 3 of us now on this forum. According to YFULL this subclade has a TMRCA of 1950 years so it probably originated in Scandinavia. It could have arrived in Sardinia, Holland, Belgium, Germany, and the UK multiple ways from its Scandinavian origin.

It might be impossible to ever truly associate a subclade with a particular ethnicity or occupation like Saxon or Viking because of all the cross migrations over the Millennia. Hopefully, as more people get tested and more recent subclades get discovered we might be able to narrow down the region or country.

Adrian Stevenson
08-12-17, 20:00
Hi Arend, welcome from me too! (the other FGC 24357* on the forum)

Please consider submitting your results to Y Full.

Cheers, Ade.

arend
10-12-17, 11:59
hello adrian what would it add to submit the data to Y full and how is their policy with respect to privacy
arend

mwauthy
10-12-17, 17:34
hello adrian what would it add to submit the data to Y full and how is their policy with respect to privacy
arend
First, did you do “Big Y” with FTDNA? I think YFULL only accepts comprehensive raw data like with “Big Y” and other thorough Y testing companies. Unfortunately, I never did “Big Y” so I am unable to do YFULL. I found out I was FGC24357 through individual SNP tests. If I were eligible I would do YFULL. I believe it only costs around $50 so it’s a reasonable fee. Not sure what their privacy rules are but they are probably similar to other dna testing companies.

I’m first generation United States so my country of origin would not be too helpful on yfull. However, my father is Belgian and it would be cool to add a Belgian flag to FGC24357 in addition to the current origins of England, Sweden, and Italy.

SaimaaRingedSeal
03-03-18, 17:55
Hello,
I just joined the forum, although I got my haplogroup results (I-Z59/V8) two years ago. My family lived in the Carelian isthmus (area surrounded by Lake Saimaa of Finland and Lake Ladoga and St.Petersburg of Russia) for at least 300 years until the Second World War. Originally the area belonged to Sweden, then for about 200 years to Russian Empire/Grand Dutchy of Finland and finally to Finland until the end of the WW2, when the population was evacuated to other parts of Finland and the area was ceded to Soviet Union.
It's interesting to notice the geographically wide distribution of I-Z59.

arend
20-04-18, 21:28
all of a sudden ftdna comes in with bigY 500: elucidating 561 str values
does anybody know what to do with this?

mwauthy
21-04-18, 02:21
all of a sudden ftdna comes in with bigY 500: elucidating 561 str values
does anybody know what to do with this?

Not really! Still trying to differentiate the advantages of str to snp. Until the price is right I’ll be abstaining.

I1a3_Young
23-04-18, 18:55
I don't think they even have a tool allowing for matching over 111 STRs.

STR is great for confirming or discovering paternal lines.

Charlemagne
07-02-19, 16:06
I am Z59 - Z382 which has been analyzed down to Y18238 which originated about 2000 years ago. My paternal ancestry has been traced to France in late 1600s , they were Huguenots who escaped to Cornwall, England. I therefore suspect that my ancient ancestors were of West Germanic Frankish tribes who lived near the Rhine.

mwauthy
07-02-19, 18:30
I am Z59 - Z382 which has been analyzed down to Y18238 which originated about 2000 years ago. My paternal ancestry has been traced to France in late 1600s , they were Huguenots who escaped to Cornwall, England. I therefore suspect that my ancient ancestors were of West Germanic Frankish tribes who lived near the Rhine.

I am downstream of Z382 myself which most likely originated in Sweden. My story is kind of the opposite of yours. Looks like my paternal ancestors went from Sweden to the British Isles and then to Belgium during the religious wars of the 17th century.

Some Z382 subclades could have been dispersed westward during the Migration Period and Vendel Period. However, modern distributions reflect a lot of possible Viking Age dispersals as well. You should join the Z382 project at Ftdna.

Voodoo_89
27-10-19, 13:39
Hi everyone, I'm new. Just got my tests and it's I1a-Z59 which is quite surprising because I'm from Croatia and I was born in Bosnia.
This looks like the place to share this :)

I'm thinking either Goths which passed through this area, also Osthrogoths ruled in Balkans (Istria, Dalmatia etc...) or Saxon miners which came to Bosnia in 13th and 14th century.