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Huracan
16-12-15, 23:11
What is very interesting is the young age of our clade and its "close" ties to clades that consist of all Near & Middle Easterners, especially Saudis which are being tested a lot. The same goes for P322 which isn't our clade but it also contains Europeans (mostly Northern Europeans: Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, and English; with one reported Mexican) on one end and then Egyptian, Saudis, and Palestinians (in P327, downstream of P322) on the other.

Sile
17-12-15, 07:09
What is very interesting is the young age of our clade and its "close" ties to clades that consist of all Near & Middle Easterners, especially Saudis which are being tested a lot. The same goes for P322 which isn't our clade but it also contains Europeans (mostly Northern Europeans: Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, and English; with one reported Mexican) on one end and then Egyptian, Saudis, and Palestinians (in P327, downstream of P322) on the other.

I do not know what you mean with this paragraph

Huracan
17-12-15, 16:41
What I was saying was that both P322 and the subclades of L446 are either found in Europe or the Middle East, especially among Saudis.

Sile
17-12-15, 18:25
What I was saying was that both P322 and the subclades of L446 are either found in Europe or the Middle East, especially among Saudis.

ok, but looking only at our branch

• • •T1a2 L131 (19372808 C->T)
• • • •T1a2a F2376.2 (17077206 G->A) FTDNA subgroup
• • • • •T1a2a1 P322 (14000929 G->T) Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, Yemeni Jews, Saudis
[A study by Mendez et al. found 4% of Palestinians in a P322 subroup (P327 18747405 T->C),
but ISOGG designates P327 as a private SNP]
• • • •T1a2b L446 (16660785 C->T)
• • • • •T1a2b1 CTS3767 (15164167 G->C)
• • • • • •T1a2b1a CTS8489(18050535 G->A) orCTS8862 (18246590 G->T) 4.5 KY
• • • • • • •T1a2b1a1 L25/PF5345/S399 (19136822 T->C)FTDNA subgroup
• • • • • • •T1a2b1a2 Pages113(2713589 G->A)orS17120 (15426389 A->C)
• • • • • • •T1a2b1a3 Z33764 (7247507 C->T) Iberians 2.7 KY
• • • • • • •T1a2b1a4 CTS1080 (7187436 T->C) Hispanics 2.7 KY
• • • • • •T1b2b1b Pages11(14496103 C->T) FTDNA subgroup
• • • • • •T1b2b1c CTS4571(15719140 C->T) Tuscans 4.5 KY
• • • • • •T1b2b1d Y7381(7150898 A->G)
• • • • • • •T1b2b1d1 Y7438(14196904 T->C)
• • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1a Y11077 (22909353 G->C) Saudis
• • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b Y7393 (21509927 C->T)
• • • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b1 Y7468 (17395593 T->G)
• • • • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b1a Y7430 (22003091 A->G) Saudis
• • • • • • • • • •T1b2b1d1b1b Y9326 (22470399 T->C) Saudis

we avoid the P322 branch ..........we are both negative for it anyway

As the t project states, we also avoid the saudis, because the T only arrived in arabia about 1400 years ago as he stated and also confirmed by Yfull team.

I am also negative fro the branches of L25, pages113, cts1080 and pages11 .................I am left with Z33764 to test


if we look at yfull then we have


T-L131 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/)S15560 * Z19910/FGC22999/Y6047 * S12150... 34 SNPsformed 15800 ybp, TMRCA 11000 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-L131/)

id:YF04665KWT [KW-AH]new
T-L131* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131*/)
T-P322 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-P322/)Y13246 * Y13253 * Y13271... 90 SNPsformed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 800 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-P322/)

id:YF03124SAU [SA-02]
id:YF02949SAU [SA-01]


T-Y6033 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y6033/)Z19923/FGC22998/Y6037 * CTS2880 * CTS11660... 18 SNPsformed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 7300 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y6033/)

T-Y6033* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y6033*/)
T-CTS933 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/)S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933... 3 SNPsformed 7300 ybp, TMRCA 6100 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS933/)

T-CTS933* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933*/)

id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]new
id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]new


T-CTS54 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54/)CTS54 * Z19896 * Z19926... 22 SNPsformed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS54/)

T-CTS54* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/)

id:NA20758TSI


T-CTS8489 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/)CTS8862 * CTS10538 * CTS8489... 3 SNPsformed 2800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS8489/)

T-CTS8489* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489*/)

id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS


T-Y17493 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y17493/)Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500... 11 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y17493/)

id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]








T-Y7381 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7381/)FGC29140/Y7391 * Y9423 * FGC23037/Y7447... 75 SNPsformed 7300 ybp, TMRCA 1400 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y7381/)

T-Y7381* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7381*/)

id:YF02353SAU [SA-01]


T-Y7438 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7438/)FGC23024/Y7438formed 1400 ybp, TMRCA 850 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y7438/)

T-Y7438* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7438*/)

id:YF03736BHR


T-Y11077 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y11077/)FGC29152/Y11077formed 850 ybp, TMRCA 450 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y11077/)

id:YF02627SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02215SAU


T-Y7393 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7393/)FGC23047/Y7393formed 850 ybp, TMRCA 850 ybpinfo (http://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y7393/)

id:YF02309SAU [SA-01]
T-Y7393* (http://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y7393*/)

id:YF02755SAU [SA-01]
id:YF02204SAU











Note = YBP = 1 January 1950


so our line at CTS 8862 is year 700BC ............the line under that y17493 in the USA ( which is my Hill, Perry and Powell "relatives" ) is dated 1575 AD

The line CTS933 confuses me.........are we part of it or not ..............I have no results for any of those SNP's in that line . The 2 samples are Persian Basrah or Egyptian Aswan.


BTW, my fathers sample is stated by some T members to contain Galician Spain and Vendee French markers..........I am still checking this out ..........my father has 15% less Italian than me ?!?!

Sile
18-12-15, 18:42
Info below by T project in regards to our line CTS8862

but because you are CTS8862+ you can assume you are positive for
- CTS933 and all equivalent SNPs
- CTS54 and all equivalent SNPs
You can't tell whether you are positive for all the SNPs equivalent to CTS8862 (my bet is all or most of them) and you don't know which SNPs you are positive for of those shared by the two T-Y17493 kits (I suspect it would be very few, possibly none).

The two T-Y17493 kits are related in genealogical time as they share a surname but they don't have a paper trail to confirm this. 1500-1650 AD is not an unreasonable estimate, I wouldn't be confident to be more precise than that.

LombardsofItaly
25-12-15, 03:19
I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.

Tomenable
25-12-15, 11:28
Sorry wrong thread.

Huracan
27-12-15, 18:21
I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.

Nice to meet another CTS11984+! So you're saying your paternal line comes from Lombardy? Interesting, another Italian in our clade. I was researching your Pandolfi surname and I came across this:
Pandolfi, cognome (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognome)italiano (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia) di origine longobarda (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longobardi) (deriva dal nome Pandulf ; italiano : Pandolfo (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandolfo)), importato in Italia (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia) dai Longobardi (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longobardi) (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandolfi)
This makes sense based on what you said. If this is the case, then our clade might be Germanic especially since recent time estimates on our SNPs go only about 2,800 years ago (for CTS11984).

Huracan
27-12-15, 19:07
If you tested with Nat Geno, have you uploaded a story? If you do, it can pop up among the other men who are CTS11984+ in that section and it can show how closely related you are to them. I have one and so does the other user in this thread, Sile.

Also, have you tested for your Y-STRs? They can help show closely related you are to another male within the same clade sometimes within hundreds of years. I have been running time estimates and phylogenetic trees to figure out how our clades are related and dispersed/migrated and STR info is key.

Sile
28-12-15, 00:35
I have T-CTS11984 and L131.

Nat. Geo said it was Northern European. Which match our surname...Pandolfi. Which is German for Banner-Wolf. The /i/ is an Italian add on.

However, my family has been in Italy for at least 220 years according to church records.

There is an old old record of the Lombards which Pandolfi is known to be, that describes their migration that ended in Italy around 900AD. I don't remember the name of the book...but I think it is simple like Lombards.

When I saw your haplo group I was exited. Based on the surname search I did...there are few males with Lombard surnames left.

hi

you are one step before Fundora and myself

http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

this tree is from end of November 2015

LombardsofItaly
28-12-15, 06:12
If you tested with Nat Geno, have you uploaded a story? If you do, it can pop up among the other men who are CTS11984+ in that section and it can show how closely related you are to them. I have one and so does the other user in this thread, Sile.

Also, have you tested for your Y-STRs? They can help show closely related you are to another male within the same clade sometimes within hundreds of years. I have been running time estimates and phylogenetic trees to figure out how our clades are related and dispersed/migrated and STR info is key.

Hi,

Just uploaded a "story".

The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?

Sile
28-12-15, 08:47
Hi,

Just uploaded a "story".

The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?

with your marker ...........you will definitely have to have L131
then you will bypass P322 and have L446 to get to CTS11984

we are one step further on than you............fundora and I both have CTS11984.............but we also have one step more

My CTS8862 was found in natgeno...........since they did not find it in yours then your marker stops at CTS11984


in nat geo.......go to your download area and download your markers................there should be about 14500 markers

Sile
28-12-15, 20:07
Hi,

Just uploaded a "story".

The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?

see if you can still transfer your natgeno to ftdna for free.................then you will have a natgeno account and also a ftdna account where you can be placed in the T group
write to Gareth Henson from the ftdna T project on any further questions once you transfer your data

Huracan
05-01-16, 21:36
Hi,

Just uploaded a "story".

The German thing also explains the blue eyes in that line. My very very Italian g.grandfather had such blue eyes they were violet, with auburn hair.

Does Nat. Geo automatically test for Y-STRs? or do I do that elsewhere? Not sure what they are?

Great tree, Sile ! Does "one step before.." mean that you have one more marker than my line?

How is T-CTS11984 and L131 related?

Is your username "singaSong"? If not, make sure you click the "show your story" option where you first typed it.

Sile
13-01-16, 07:03
New Isogg T updated 7th of January .........my Positive L490 which takes me from T to T1 is now under investigation ..............the only other one L206 which does the same , I am negative for

BTW
my Mtdna marker has its 5th member only .............from Tramonti di Sopra in the friulian mountains with surname of Calderan, Vedlin and Muin. I have already spoke to the ancestor currently living in central france.

that's 4 from italy ( 3 x NI and 1 x SI ) and 1 from sweden

Sile
05-04-16, 08:40
In Ftdna , another two testers are bracketed with us, one from Italy and the other unknown.........................kit numbers are

N164010

N145191

Have found no info on them...........I think they are natgeno testers

Huracan
13-04-16, 05:50
In Ftdna , another two testers are bracketed with us, one from Italy and the other unknown.........................kit numbers are

N164010

N145191

Have found no info on them...........I think they are natgeno testers

Where do you see them @Sile? I can't find them in the list of results from the T project...

Sile
13-04-16, 08:13
Where do you see them @Sile? I can't find them in the list of results from the T project...

yes they disappeared again, like last time..............I will take a snippet next time

One was surname Greco is is common in all of Italy, the other only said Italy.


have a try at this new chinese site, for Audna.. its free

https://www.wegene.com/en/

it will eventually give you health reports as well once they convert from chinese to English

Huracan
15-04-16, 01:16
Ok now I think I remember one of those kits appearing and disappearing within a day from our grouping on the T project site. It was the Italian one that had very little info besides origin. It is interesting that quite a bit of CTS8862 individuals are Italian.

Huracan
15-04-16, 01:39
Also! Checked the Genographic Project for any new member-submitted stories from our line and there is a new one! The username is Fmaldonadocosta, I wonder if there is a way I could contact him. He is Peruvian and writes there is not much exact information known about his paternal line except that it begins in Poland and France, migrated to the U.K. then to "North America" (I'm presuming the U.S. or Canada), then to northern Peru. Very interesting!

Sile
15-04-16, 09:01
Also! Checked the Genographic Project for any new member-submitted stories from our line and there is a new one! The username is Fmaldonadocosta, I wonder if there is a way I could contact him. He is Peruvian and writes there is not much exact information known about his paternal line except that it begins in Poland and France, migrated to the U.K. then to "North America" (I'm presuming the U.S. or Canada), then to northern Peru. Very interesting!

Surname looks Portuguese

looks like donado Costa ...............which I wrote to a long time ago ...............if it is him, he states he is from northern Portugal next ot Galicia Spain

Huracan
15-04-16, 14:12
I thought his surname was "Maldonado Costa" but sometimes it's hard to tell based on usernames. If it is Donado Costa then do you remember if he too was CTS8862? Trying to make a connection...
If this NatGeno user is the same person then there is helps support my hypothesis that my line originated in Galicia/Portugal.

Sile
17-04-16, 00:12
Ok now I think I remember one of those kits appearing and disappearing within a day from our grouping on the T project site. It was the Italian one that had very little info besides origin. It is interesting that quite a bit of CTS8862 individuals are Italian.

they are back again

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/sneaky%20t_zpsf628np0a.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/sneaky%20t_zpsf628np0a.jpg.html)

Do you ignore the "red" coded DYS .............ie, the fast mutating ones?

Huracan
17-04-16, 02:44
I was just about to post saying they reappeared. The fast ones should usually be ignored

Huracan
02-05-16, 18:51
they are back again

Do you ignore the "red" coded DYS .............ie, the fast mutating ones?

Actually it depends. The first STR phylogenies I did I got TMRCA estimates in the 2,000+ ybp range similar to Yfull's current estimates. When I ignored the fastest ones and used the slowest ones only, I got TMRCA estimates in the 4,000+ ybp range similar to this site we discussed earlier https://sites.google.com/site/compositeytree/t

Sile
04-05-16, 08:11
Actually it depends. The first STR phylogenies I did I got TMRCA estimates in the 2,000+ ybp range similar to Yfull's current estimates. When I ignored the fastest ones and used the slowest ones only, I got TMRCA estimates in the 4,000+ ybp range similar to this site we discussed earlier https://sites.google.com/site/compositeytree/t

Great ...........I also get correct dating .......even the Carolina's T-Ydna members ( USA ). date is very accurate .....this is their branch T1a2b1a1a Y17493 ....all dated from the 16th century when the marker was born ...in the USA




Have a question .............have you been tested for Z33764 ?.................I have used RED text for all the SNP I tested for and negative for
I have not tested for Z33764 ....................I was told it was from the Balearic islands marker, but when I search the 18% of T ydna from there , 99% are from the T-162 branch ( not ours ).

T1a2b1a CTS8489(18050535 G->A) or CTS8862(18246590 G->T) 4.5 KY • •••
•••T1a2b1a1 L25/PF5345/S399 (19136822 T->C)FTDNA subgroup

• ••••••T1a2b1a2Pages113(2713589 G->A)orS17120 (15426389 A->C )

• ••••••T1a2b1a3 Z33764 (7247507 C->T) Iberians 2.7 KY

• ••••••T1a2b1a4 CTS1080 (7187436 T->C) Hispanics 2.7 KY

• •••••T1b2b1bPages11 (14496103 C->T) FTDNA subgroup

• •••••T1b2b1cCTS4571(15719140 C->T) Tuscans 4.5 KY

Huracan
05-05-16, 05:54
I have never been tested for that SNP but I am negative for L25, the SNP above it, so I should not be positive for it either.

Sile
05-05-16, 11:42
I have never been tested for that SNP but I am negative for L25, the SNP above it, so I should not be positive for it either.

Yes , same as yourself..........looks like we have reached the end of the line for now with our CTS8862 @4500yo

what are we separated by ?...2000years?

Huracan
06-05-16, 00:07
But I do not know if 4,500 years is the accurate age or the one YFull provides, which is 2,200 years...

Sile
06-05-16, 08:08
But I do not know if 4,500 years is the accurate age or the one YFull provides, which is 2,200 years...

sorry....i was not clear

I meant that the 4500 for our marker is a very accurate figure IMO and

the 2000 years was my estimate between ourselves based on STR difference between each other...........do you think this number is when we could have split from each other or was it more?..............I think we are 10 difference in STR

Sile
10-05-16, 12:09
@Fundora

Below is another data base of only 67 markers or more tested.

These are the ones that match our DYS390=22

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/37%20t%20ydna_zpssiu5hjxh.jpg

Check if any are close to yourself
(http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/37%20t%20ydna_zpssiu5hjxh.jpg.html)

Huracan
10-05-16, 20:05
This is with semargl right? I am closest to T8WMY (Russo on ysearch) followed by two UK N41050 and 38362 and DG4TT (Milligan on ysearch)...

Sile
11-05-16, 20:53
This is with semargl right? I am closest to T8WMY (Russo on ysearch) followed by two UK N41050 and 38362 and DG4TT (Milligan on ysearch)...

yes and thanks

I also have weird closeness in ysearch with:
286444 Christian Maurer from southern Romania
and
194479 Daniel Hoff from Wurtenburg Germany ( sometimes uses the surname Smelser ( Smelzer ) from Tyrol )

I do not get your connections

Sile
27-05-16, 00:54
@KF

with the new ftdna revamp in matches recently, I received two more matches

francesco Miotto and another with surname Ulrich

in my family tree
in the 19th century I have ( registry documents)

vittorio Miotto from Arcade` Veneto , Italy married Rosa Arman
her father married a Ulrich ..........but I cannot see a connection


did you receive any updates?

Teaford
31-05-16, 03:17
I had my brother's DNA tested a few years back and we've been reclassified several times. T-L131, T-PAGES00011 and now it looks like we are probably L446+ CTS11984 and maybe S27463.

I sent a question in to the administrators of the T group over on FTDNA because it just seems so weird to me to be the 'only' T-PAGES00011 for so long and here is Gareth's reply - btw, I hope the BIG Y sale is a really good one this year.

Hello Susan

As far as I can tell your brother is the only T-PAGES00011 in the database. PAGES00011 was originally discovered in haplogroup A and when searching I found a PAGES00011+ example in haplogroup R. It therefore appears to be a recurrent SNP and possibly unreliable. I strongly suspect that when FTDNA added it to their tree a few years ago the person analysing the data made the fundamental error of not checking whether SNPs had more than one occurrance in the same haplogroup.

So I would disregard your brother's T-PAGES00011 designation. What we do know from his Geno 2.0 results is that he is L446+ CTS11984-. We have 4 kits with this combination who have tested Big Y and three of them share a number of novel SNPs including S27463. One of them (379058) is closer to your brother than the other two and in fact is quite high up on his list of matches at 67 markers - see the attached screen shot (I have also included the matches at 111 markers although 379058 hasn't tested to that level). I think it's very likely that your brother is S27463+ and shares many novel SNPs with 379058.

I believe FTDNA are about to announce their annual Fathers' Day sale. If Big Y is included in the sale I would encourage you to go ahead and order the test.

Best wishes

Gareth Henson

Sile
31-05-16, 23:19
I had my brother's DNA tested a few years back and we've been reclassified several times. T-L131, T-PAGES00011 and now it looks like we are probably L446+ CTS11984 and maybe S27463.

I sent a question in to the administrators of the T group over on FTDNA because it just seems so weird to me to be the 'only' T-PAGES00011 for so long and here is Gareth's reply - btw, I hope the BIG Y sale is a really good one this year.

Hello Susan

As far as I can tell your brother is the only T-PAGES00011 in the database. PAGES00011 was originally discovered in haplogroup A and when searching I found a PAGES00011+ example in haplogroup R. It therefore appears to be a recurrent SNP and possibly unreliable. I strongly suspect that when FTDNA added it to their tree a few years ago the person analysing the data made the fundamental error of not checking whether SNPs had more than one occurrance in the same haplogroup.

So I would disregard your brother's T-PAGES00011 designation. What we do know from his Geno 2.0 results is that he is L446+ CTS11984-. We have 4 kits with this combination who have tested Big Y and three of them share a number of novel SNPs including S27463. One of them (379058) is closer to your brother than the other two and in fact is quite high up on his list of matches at 67 markers - see the attached screen shot (I have also included the matches at 111 markers although 379058 hasn't tested to that level). I think it's very likely that your brother is S27463+ and shares many novel SNPs with 379058.

I believe FTDNA are about to announce their annual Fathers' Day sale. If Big Y is included in the sale I would encourage you to go ahead and order the test.

Best wishes

Gareth Henson

what is your kit #

BTW, I am positive for CTS11984

Teaford
01-06-16, 02:46
what is your kit #

BTW, I am positive for CTS11984

I am kit N116155. I only have family history back to October 27, 1764. I'd like to go a lot deeper than that.

Sile
01-06-16, 03:33
I am kit N116155. I only have family history back to October 27, 1764. I'd like to go a lot deeper than that.

I see your line is from Alsace France, but have you ever looked at the Drake's of Windsor .............they settled in England, Usa and France

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DRAKE/2013-03/1362611598

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/DRAKE/2008-05/1211229209

Teaford
01-06-16, 22:27
This is news to me, I'll let you know if I find anything.

Sile
09-06-16, 02:02
they are back again

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m153/vicpret/sneaky%20t_zpsf628np0a.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/vicpret/media/sneaky%20t_zpsf628np0a.jpg.html)

Do you ignore the "red" coded DYS .............ie, the fast mutating ones?

@fundora

In regards to the 2 others in our group

Greco ( N164010) is a surname that appears all over Italy and currently there are nearly 1400 households with this surname. So I have no idea.

the other

N145191 ( as what I was given, is also Italian ) is surname Goldin..........there are 214 households in Italy of which all except 10 are ....only in Northern Italy ( others are only in Tuscany and Umbria ). This marker originated from a town called Monselice in the Padua province of the Veneto region.

There seems to be also an association with this name ~1490 in the family tree of Cicogna/Mazzon ............Cicogna was a Doge of Venice and currently his old Villa is the current towns , councillors , registry offices and other offies

Sile
30-06-16, 07:52
@KF

a new person joined our group

he is closest to you

kit = 420992


Levi Lee Sr., b. 1761, d. 1844,
............United Kingdom
.......................T-CTS8862



he is part of this project also
http://www.leedna.com/dnaresults.php

Sile
06-07-16, 20:58
@KF

you are now noted in the semargl site under

T1a2 L131>Y6033/L446>CTS933>CTS11984>CTS8862+ Europe
With me and another - surname Fakes ( 27v79 )............origin scot-irish .........ancestors in NC USA and Tyrol Austria

Another is Milligan ( DG4TT) ...unsure where he is from

The site seems to be using some form of Yfull marker names

Huracan
31-07-16, 23:07
@KF

with the new ftdna revamp in matches recently, I received two more matches

francesco Miotto and another with surname Ulrich

in my family tree
in the 19th century I have ( registry documents)

vittorio Miotto from Arcade` Veneto , Italy married Rosa Arman
her father married a Ulrich ..........but I cannot see a connection


did you receive any updates?

Are the Miotto and Ulrich individuals CTS8862+?

Sile
02-08-16, 21:24
Are the Miotto and Ulrich individuals CTS8862+?

yes , but two different families
I have no idea where Ulrich originated from...................do not forget, we also have a Brennan with CTS8862


In regards to Levi lee in above posts, I spoke to an ancestor and he stated the father of Levi was, Charles Lee a brickmaker

Sile
16-08-16, 08:51
@KF

with the new Ftdna parameters, you are 1 GD from me

I do have another GD of zero ( 3rd cousin? ...........more like 9th ) named Hintz form Padua province

Huracan
17-08-16, 05:08
yes , but two different families
I have no idea where Ulrich originated from...................do not forget, we also have a Brennan with CTS8862


In regards to Levi lee in above posts, I spoke to an ancestor and he stated the father of Levi was, Charles Lee a brickmaker

Does FTDNA provide the origins of Miotto and Ulrich?

Huracan
17-08-16, 05:18
@KF

with the new Ftdna parameters, you are 1 GD from me

I do have another GD of zero ( 3rd cousin? ...........more like 9th ) named Hintz form Padua province

Yes I saw but I do not understand the new update. It removed a lot of my previous matches, including my only match at 37 markers...

Sile
17-08-16, 09:04
Does FTDNA provide the origins of Miotto and Ulrich?

miotto is in Veneto Italy

Ulrich is in south Germany

Sile
17-08-16, 09:10
Yes I saw but I do not understand the new update. It removed a lot of my previous matches, including my only match at 37 markers...

Considering we where over 1000 years apart, the new system seems to make sense.

Yfull has a new person under out CTS8862 ...from Sardinia

I do have Tim Brennan as my main person............he is Portuguese?!?!?

try the SNP map in ftdna with CTS8862.........there is a pole person included

I have 2 new FF matches with surname BETZING

and also only ONE highlightted surname .........CEMIN from Trentino ............what does the Highlighted indicate?

Huracan
18-08-16, 06:47
Wow cool, a Sardinian CTS8862+

So Brennan is listed as Portugal in origin? Guessing Brennan is mother's or an altered version of an earlier surname

Also, I have no clue what the highlighted surname means...

Sile
18-08-16, 08:05
Wow cool, a Sardinian CTS8862+

So Brennan is listed as Portugal in origin? Guessing Brennan is mother's or an altered version of an earlier surname

Also, I have no clue what the highlighted surname means...

the sardinian from cagliari



id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]new



on yfull

Sile
08-09-16, 20:41
Looking through the T ftdna project , the following stands out

DYS390 =22

39 are of European ancestry and 2 are of Middle-East ancestry

there seems a clear link the DYS390 is an important STR in separating T-Ydna people.

Sile
11-09-16, 01:05
@KF

Another joined our little group.....no name ..........kit#517001 from Virelles Belgium

I think this kit was a transfer from another company

...............................

It seems they want to test 1 x Polish and 2 x north-west Ukrainians to see if they have same marker as us

and

I x central Italian ( marche ), 1x south italian ( campania ) and 1 x west-sicilian

and

kit # 15746 from central Germany

Sile
11-09-16, 10:42
@KF

Another joined our little group.....no name ..........kit#517001 from Virelles Belgium

I think this kit was a transfer from another company

...............................

It seems they want to test 1 x Polish and 2 x north-west Ukrainians to see if they have same marker as us

and

I x central Italian ( marche ), 1x south italian ( campania ) and 1 x west-sicilian

and

kit # 15746 from central Germany



Kit # 517001 seems to be Francois Bernot born 1618 ...............seems like a french name

Sile
16-09-16, 20:54
Kit # 517001 seems to be Francois Bernot born 1618 ...............seems like a french name

Ftdna T project has associated francois Bernot with #517001 and

this marker sits closer to you KF and further from me

Sile
30-09-16, 19:32
@Fundora

part of an email to me by a , T project Ftdna administrator

So far they have found 3 T-CTS8862 samples (southern European ), one from Italy and two from Hispanic populations. I think it is possible that you will be more closely related to one of these southern European samples than to the T Project members (whose roots are in north west Europe). N145191 is not Timothy Brennan (who isn't in the Project). His surname is Cockley but he has a match with the surname Caquelin so I suspect his ancestry is French. He has joined the Golden Project but I don't know why.


Note: Timothy Brennan is my #1 match on ftdna .............he stated his ancestors where from SW-Germany ( black forest lands )

Huracan
03-10-16, 22:18
Ftdna T project has associated francois Bernot with #517001 and

this marker sits closer to you KF and further from me

I checked the site now and he doesnt appear... But yes it is definitely a French surname based on internet searches.

Huracan
03-10-16, 22:25
@Fundora

part of an email to me by a , T project Ftdna administrator

So far they have found 3 T-CTS8862 samples (southern European ), one from Italy and two from Hispanic populations. I think it is possible that you will be more closely related to one of these southern European samples than to the T Project members (whose roots are in north west Europe). N145191 is not Timothy Brennan (who isn't in the Project). His surname is Cockley but he has a match with the surname Caquelin so I suspect his ancestry is French. He has joined the Golden Project but I don't know why.


Note: Timothy Brennan is my #1 match on ftdna .............he stated his ancestors where from SW-Germany ( black forest lands )

Earlier you mentioned that N145191 was Goldin (see page 12). Cockley is a very English surname but him matching Caquelin (which appears to be French based off searches as well) may not immediately suggest a French connection... Did administrator say how distant they were?

Sile
04-10-16, 06:57
I checked the site now and he doesnt appear... But yes it is definitely a French surname based on internet searches.

Yes, French , but origins in Belgium.........Walloon area

Sile
04-10-16, 07:01
Earlier you mentioned that N145191 was Goldin (see page 12). Cockley is a very English surname but him matching Caquelin (which appears to be French based off searches as well) may not immediately suggest a French connection... Did administrator say how distant they were?

No , he said basically

From previous tests we know you are T-CTS8862. We already have 3 members of the Project who are T-CTS8862 and have Big Y results - 33644, 58636 and 517001. 33644 and 58636 share a surname and are both already on YFull. They are related within the last 400 years or so. T-CTS8862 itself is estimated to be around 2200 years old.

So the first thing your Big Y will tell you is whether you are more closely related to 33644/58636 or to 517001.


Caquelin from recent conversation origins are from Alsace....place called wildersach ( or something similar , since ~1650 )


I was given wrong info on N145191 as a Goldin........it was Caquelin .....both are in the Ftdna Golden Project

Sile
26-10-16, 19:02
No , he said basically

From previous tests we know you are T-CTS8862. We already have 3 members of the Project who are T-CTS8862 and have Big Y results - 33644, 58636 and 517001. 33644 and 58636 share a surname and are both already on YFull. They are related within the last 400 years or so. T-CTS8862 itself is estimated to be around 2200 years old.

So the first thing your Big Y will tell you is whether you are more closely related to 33644/58636 or to 517001.


Caquelin from recent conversation origins are from Alsace....place called wildersach ( or something similar , since ~1650 )


I was given wrong info on N145191 as a Goldin........it was Caquelin .....both are in the Ftdna Golden Project

I have my BigY results and this from the project person

let you know that you have a shared SNP - Z19945 (8397337 C to T) - which is not (yet) shared by anyone else in the Haplogroup T Project. The two Scottish-Irish members who are in your matches lists do not appear to share this SNP. Their branch T-Y17493 is a separate branch of T-CTS8662.

I match only with Mr. Bernot I will fit in somewhere on the bottom left of this new Isogg T tree in link below.
CTS8489 is equal to CTS8862

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#/media/File:Haplogroup_T-M184_tree.png

Huracan
29-10-16, 18:06
No , he said basically

From previous tests we know you are T-CTS8862. We already have 3 members of the Project who are T-CTS8862 and have Big Y results - 33644, 58636 and 517001. 33644 and 58636 share a surname and are both already on YFull. They are related within the last 400 years or so. T-CTS8862 itself is estimated to be around 2200 years old.

So the first thing your Big Y will tell you is whether you are more closely related to 33644/58636 or to 517001.


Caquelin from recent conversation origins are from Alsace....place called wildersach ( or something similar , since ~1650 )


I was given wrong info on N145191 as a Goldin........it was Caquelin .....both are in the Ftdna Golden Project

So is N145191 Cockley or Caquelin?

Huracan
29-10-16, 18:08
I have my BigY results and this from the project person

let you know that you have a shared SNP - Z19945 (8397337 C to T) - which is not (yet) shared by anyone else in the Haplogroup T Project. The two Scottish-Irish members who are in your matches lists do not appear to share this SNP. Their branch T-Y17493 is a separate branch of T-CTS8662.

I match only with Mr. Bernot I will fit in somewhere on the bottom left of this new Isogg T tree in link below.
CTS8489 is equal to CTS8862

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184#/media/File:Haplogroup_T-M184_tree.png


This is interesting, I am continuing to research our clade and refine my understandings about its origins.

Sile
29-10-16, 18:55
This is interesting, I am continuing to research our clade and refine my understandings about its origins.

we are now split in the T ftdna project due to my BigY test

I will likely be in the future with mr. Bernot
T1a2a1a1b

and you and mr. Lee will be
T1a2a1a1c

or clade/main branch is purely European beginning some 8000 years ago with L446 in northern Anatolia, it went to Europe first.............the european branch split many times until our clade CTS8862/CTS8489 was created some 2400 years ago.....I suspect around Southern Germany.

The persian side from L446 is less than 2000 years old ..............so it seems that some L446 migrated most likely from Anatolia to Persia and along the persian gulf at the time of the roman empire in the middle-east

Sile
29-10-16, 18:56
So is N145191 Cockley or Caquelin?

yes ............it is Cockley but Gareth thinks he was from france with the original surname of Caquelin

Sile
07-11-16, 18:03
we are now split in the T ftdna project due to my BigY test

I will likely be in the future with mr. Bernot
T1a2a1a1b

and you and mr. Lee will be
T1a2a1a1c

or clade/main branch is purely European beginning some 8000 years ago with L446 in northern Anatolia, it went to Europe first.............the european branch split many times until our clade CTS8862/CTS8489 was created some 2400 years ago.....I suspect around Southern Germany.

The persian side from L446 is less than 2000 years old ..............so it seems that some L446 migrated most likely from Anatolia to Persia and along the persian gulf at the time of the roman empire in the middle-east

Fundora, a note from project team to me

YFull has updated its tree and Z19945 has been added (the only new branch for T this time). The age estimate is 2,600 years before present i.e. 400 BC. The ages of CTS8862 and CTS54 have been pushed back in time by the results for YF07168.
Note that YFull show CTS1848 as equivalent to Z19945. You are negative for this SNP but it is recurrent and possibly unreliable.

Bernot ( YF07168 ) is positive for CTS1848, I am negative

As per Bernot historical information to me................Bernot originate in ancient region of Thiérage, which in those days was partly in France (County of Vermandois) and partly in the Spanish Netherlands (County of Hainaut) and also Lorraine.
His ancestors worked in spanish netherlands "gun/cannon foundries" and travelled with the spainsh to Iberia once Spain lost the Netherlands.


I still maintain my marker along with Bernot came via Central-Danubian area ( south -Germany ) then split into Alps or Alsace or up the Rhine ..........I guess the split was in old Swabian lands of SW-Germany

Sile
11-11-16, 22:37
Once my Yfull is done ( YF07608 ) I will see if I still link with YF07168 or we split apart from SNP z19945 due to CTS1848

the T tree in T-M184 has us split already

zanipolo
11-11-16, 22:46
http://s23.postimg.org/uuwn0csjv/Karsdorf_Burial_settlement_T1a.png



http://britishacademy.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.5871/bacad/9780197265758.001.0001/upso-9780197265758-chapter-6 (http://s23.postimg.org/uuwn0csjv/Karsdorf_Burial_settlement_T1a.png)

Sile
08-12-16, 18:40
as of today.............my yfull is still be analysed .........I am IT-TV below

from branch
T-L131 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/)S12150 * Y6030/FGC22987 * CTS7239+39 SNPsformed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 11100 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-L131/)

T-L131* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131*/)




T-CTS54 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54/) Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPsformed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS54/)

T-CTS54* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/)

id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
id:NA20758TSI


T-CTS8489 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/)CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPsformed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS8489/)

id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]new
T-CTS8489* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489*/)

id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]


T-Y17493 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y17493/)Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y17493/)

id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]


T-Z19945 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/)Z19945 * CTS1848formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Z19945/)

id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS












I am confirmed positive for Z19945 , same as the bottom group, but I am confirmed negative for CTS1848 , while bottom group are positive for CTS1848.

note: YF are ftdna tested people and HG and ERS are samples tested from written papers

Sile
27-12-16, 07:18
@ Fundora

is the crump person still close to you in ftdna ?

his info below
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/66415/




the will below of James Crump 1735 Dublin Merchant ( T ydna )
(http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/66415/)

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=ecrump2&id=I2514

I will dig deeper ............His son Adam in Virginia USA was a wealthy man

Huracan
27-12-16, 23:49
He is no longer close to me on FTDNA or even shown from 12-25 marker levels. Was he confirmed CTS8862+?

Sile
28-12-16, 19:04
He is no longer close to me on FTDNA or even shown from 12-25 marker levels. Was he confirmed CTS8862+?

He is close to me ................actually closer than this new one below




Douglas C. Bowen...............


https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/email_16x16.gif ([email protected]) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/TiP_icon.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/tip-report.aspx?res=12&tokitnum=1NsJjYE2k8xf5FZXLiY%2bBg%3d%3d&fromkitnum=6EQq4QN78KottE%2fAIOdlNA%3d%3d&gd=1) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/note_16x16.gif Y-DNA67 ................




T-CTS8862
.............CTS8862 .............

11/10/2016

Sile
28-12-16, 19:09
as of today.............my yfull is still be analysed .........I am IT-TV below

from branch
T-L131 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131/)S12150 * Y6030/FGC22987 * CTS7239+39 SNPsformed 16000 ybp, TMRCA 11100 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-L131/)

T-L131* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L131*/)




T-CTS54 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54/) Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPsformed 6600 ybp, TMRCA 3600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS54/)

T-CTS54* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/)

id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
id:NA20758TSI


T-CTS8489 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/)CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPsformed 3600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-CTS8489/)

id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]new
T-CTS8489* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489*/)

id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]


T-Y17493 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y17493/)Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Y17493/)

id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]


T-Z19945 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/)Z19945 * CTS1848formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 2600 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/tree-info/T-Z19945/)

id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS












I am confirmed positive for Z19945 , same as the bottom group, but I am confirmed negative for CTS1848 , while bottom group are positive for CTS1848.

note: YF are ftdna tested people and HG and ERS are samples tested from written papers

yfull found 49 new novel SNP's under me .....of which 20 are of "good quality"

and only 1 negative ?................L445

There where many they left as "no call"

Huracan
30-12-16, 00:21
I saw CTS1848 is an equivalent SNP to Z19945. I am positive for CTS1848 according to FTDNA but I saw in your earlier post that it is "recurrent and unreliable". As for the other FTDNA matches, mine have not been updated and do not go past 25 markers...

Sile
30-12-16, 19:56
I saw CTS1848 is an equivalent SNP to Z19945. I am positive for CTS1848 according to FTDNA but I saw in your earlier post that it is "recurrent and unreliable". As for the other FTDNA matches, mine have not been updated and do not go past 25 markers...

Yes it is ..............so , Francois Bernot 1617 from Lorraine ............who worked as a cannon maker for the spanish Nertherlands "empire" and who followed these spanish back to iberia and later the new world is both positive Z19945 and CTS1848

I am negative for CTS1848, so Yfull most likely will branch me into a branch off Mr. Bernot into one with Z19945+ and CTS1848-

If you are CTS1848+ , you could also be Z19945 and a match with ancestors of mr.Bernot who went to the new world after the defeat of the spanish in the netherlands................but he is of french and not spanish ancestry

Huracan
01-01-17, 18:00
He is close to me ................actually closer than this new one below




Douglas C. Bowen...............
https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/email_16x16.gif ([email protected]) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/TiP_icon.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/tip-report.aspx?res=12&tokitnum=1NsJjYE2k8xf5FZXLiY%2bBg%3d%3d&fromkitnum=6EQq4QN78KottE%2fAIOdlNA%3d%3d&gd=1) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/note_16x16.gif Y-DNA67 ................

T-CTS8862
.............CTS8862 .............
11/10/2016




@Sile, where is the Bowen individual from?

Sile
01-01-17, 23:30
@Sile, where is the Bowen individual from?

I was given this below as his oldest ancestors

Obadiah Bowen






Birthdate:
September 18, 1627


Birthplace:
Glamorganshire, Wales




his father was:
Richard Bowen






Birthdate:
circa 1580


Birthplace:
Ilston, Glamorganshire, Wales
Died February 4, 1674 in Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony















someone else gave me this:

Owen Bowen

Welsh: Owain Bowen





Birthdate:
1453


Birthplace:
Pentre Ifan Wood, Pembrokeshire, United Kingdom


Death:
Died 1481

Sile
04-01-17, 23:37
Yfull version 5 is released
and I am in a different branch and my TMRCA = 1150BC............Bronze-age collapse period


T-Y6033Y6037/FGC22998/Z19923 * CTS12108 * Y6035/FGC23001/Z19901+19 SNPs formed 11000 ybp, TMRCA 7800 ybpinfo

T-Y6033*
T-CTS933 S24464 * CTS6071 * CTS933+2 SNPs formed 7800 ybp, TMRCA 6800 ybpinfo
T-CTS933*
id:YF04638EGY [EG-ASN]

T-S27463 Y21207 * Y21204 * Y21206+13 SNPs formed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 1600 ybpinfo
id:ERS256891ITA [IT-CA]
id:YF04719IRQ [IQ-BA]

T-CTS54Z19926 * Z19902 * CTS6769+26 SNPs formed 6800 ybp, TMRCA 3700 ybpinfo
T-CTS54*
id:YF06979USA [US-VA]
id:NA20758TSI

T-CTS8489 CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPsformed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
T-CTS8489*

T-Y17493 Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]

T-Z19945Z 19945 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
T-Z19945*
id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]

T-CTS1848 CTS1848 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybpinfo
id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT]
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS

my negative CTS1848 makes me 600 years older than the person with a positive CTS1848


it seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: "at least", i.e between 7800 and 6800YBP, but perhaps you know that I consider the YFull ages underestimated for an 1.17 factor...

Above from a scholar .............I think this means late Neolithic period ..........or is it middle Neolithic ? ..........taking in consideration YFull estimates

Huracan
05-01-17, 22:38
This is interesting news, since I am CTS1848+ based on FTDNA's SNP list I would be placed in the terminal clade with Bernot and the two other Hispanics.

On the T Project, assessing the SNP lists of the members I notice that Bernot, Cockley/Caquelin, and I are the only ones that are CTS1848+. For some reason we are also the only three to have CTS1848 tested for and in our SNP lists...

Sile
06-01-17, 01:11
This is interesting news, since I am CTS1848+ based on FTDNA's SNP list I would be placed in the terminal clade with Bernot and the two other Hispanics.

On the T Project, assessing the SNP lists of the members I notice that Bernot, Cockley/Caquelin, and I are the only ones that are CTS1848+. For some reason we are also the only three to have CTS1848 tested for and in our SNP lists...

remember that the "HG" are not personal testers, they are from scientific papers

and

Bernot states his ancestors ( they are French ) went with the Spanish after the Spanish lost the Netherlands ............so
bernot - french
caquelin - french
and yourself ?.........I cannot remember what you found



and finally,,,,,my line is 600 years older than Bernot line for TMRCA

Sile
06-01-17, 19:02
I have about 20 plus private mutations of which only one stands out.

this one is only found so far in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almaty#History

Sile
12-01-17, 19:13
At KFundora

I have just seen you are classified as CTS1848 ( because you are positive ) same as the french , Bernot person ........... in the renamed branch in YFull ............under me , which I am Z19945

There is still 600 years of TMRCA between us though

Huracan
13-01-17, 01:46
remember that the "HG" are not personal testers, they are from scientific papers

and

Bernot states his ancestors ( they are French ) went with the Spanish after the Spanish lost the Netherlands ............so
bernot - french
caquelin - french
and yourself ?.........I cannot remember what you found



and finally,,,,,my line is 600 years older than Bernot line for TMRCA

According to what I have found thus far, my line is most likely Galician-Portuguese in origin... so NW Spain.

It's about 2500 years to the common ancestor of Bernot, Caquelin, the two Hispanic individuals from YFull (science papers, as you said), and I, equaling about 550 BCE.

Sile
13-01-17, 06:57
According to what I have found thus far, my line is most likely Galician-Portuguese in origin... so NW Spain.

It's about 2500 years to the common ancestor of Bernot, Caquelin, the two Hispanic individuals from YFull (science papers, as you said), and I, equaling about 550 BCE.

I think so as well...........but your line did not come to iberia via the med, but more likely via the danube and central and eastern europe .

Huracan
14-01-17, 01:34
I think so as well...........but your line did not come to iberia via the med, but more likely via the danube and central and eastern europe .

I agree. Based on the timings and origin of our surnames/lines, I think it is indicative of being dispersed by Indo-Europeans, maybe Celts or related groups. Requires more research to find out which is most likely...

Sile
14-01-17, 02:56
I agree. Based on the timings and origin of our surnames/lines, I think it is indicative of being dispersed by Indo-Europeans, maybe Celts or related groups. Requires more research to find out which is most likely...

Subclades statistics

Haplogroup
Selected SNP
Known SNP
Novels
Unrounded
age (ybp)
Rounded age (ybp)
Age by all samples (ybp)


− T-Z19945
21
1
20
3410
3400 (2200-5100)
3100 (2200-4100)


− T-CTS8489
22
2
20
3570
3600 (2300-5300)
3100 (2200-4100)


− T-CTS54
27
7
20
4368
4400 (3000-6200)
3700 (2900-4700)


− T-CTS933
50
30
20
8037
8000 (6100-10400)
6800 (5700-7800)


− T-Y6033
53
33
20
8516
8500 (6500-11000)
7800 (6600-9000)


− T-L131
64
44
20
10271
10300 (8000-12900)
11000 (9700-12500)


− T-L206
91
71
20
14578
14600 (11900-17700)
16000 (14700-17300)





I was told I was in Europe from T-Y6033 marker ............I think west of the Urals is Europe and either just North Caucasus or both are designate as europe........maybe someone knows exactly

Sile
15-01-17, 18:38
@kf

It states that the important DYS390 which we have #22 .............like all the other european L446 people ...........is that

mine changed from 23 to 22 at 6318 years ago .................I think this is where the call is to be "european" ...............maybe west of the Ural mountains ????


YFull site noted that my full STR numbers will not be ready until June 2017

Sile
02-06-17, 21:16
@kf

I spoke to Greco who is with you in the T project..........his ancestors are from Puglia italy


as for myself , I have another match with a ...Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler ...............do you also match with him?

Huracan
10-06-17, 22:32
@Sile

No, I do not see Fiedler as a match. My FTDNA matches have not changed for a long time and the newest update drastically decreased my list of matches.

I was a little wary of self-designating myself as T-CTS1848. FTDNA has me as T-CTS8862 and the T Project still places me in the unmatched CTS8862 group. My tested SNP list from FTDNA says I'm CTS1848+ but does not include Z19945. YFull has CTS1848 as downstream from Z19945 so I guess I must be positive for it also?

Sile
10-06-17, 23:44
@Sile

No, I do not see Fiedler as a match. My FTDNA matches have not changed for a long time and the newest update drastically decreased my list of matches.

I was a little wary of self-designating myself as T-CTS1848. FTDNA has me as T-CTS8862 and the T Project still places me in the unmatched CTS8862 group. My tested SNP list from FTDNA says I'm CTS1848+ but does not include Z19945. YFull has CTS1848 as downstream from Z19945 so I guess I must be positive for it also?

thanks.............so since I am negative CTS1848 which according to Yfull , I am 500 years older than your line, you must fit in with a close match with me who is also CTS1848 positive ( same as you ) , his surname is Bernot ( ancestry from eastern france , even though he also states belgium ( walloon )). We have spoken and he traced his lineage to a french family making cannons for the spanish in the spanish netherlands..........the family went with the spanish after the spanish lost the war against the dutch

you should be positive for Z19945



T-CTS8489 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489/)CTS10538 * Z19953 * CTS9984+5 SNPsformed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/T-CTS8489/)

id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
T-CTS8489* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS8489*/)
T-Y17493 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y17493/)Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/T-Y17493/)

id:YF04232 ........................different Knox from ireland
id:YF04203USA [US-NC] ............reddick knox from Hesse


T-Z19945 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/)Z19945formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/T-Z19945/)

T-Z19945* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945*/)

id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV] ...............me


T-CTS1848 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS1848/)A15857/CTS1848formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybpinfo (https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/T-CTS1848/)

id:YF07168BEL [BE-WHT] ................Bernot
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS








you should sit with Bernot


form reddick ancestor below
My Reddicks are German in origin, having had the surname recorded as Radick upon arrival in Savannah, GA in 1737. Back in the Odenwald region of southwest Germany the name had been Rettich / Rettig and a century earlier the family was named Retgen. Rettich is German for the vegetable radish. My suspicion is that the surname changed with circumstances - either a move to where there were already Rettich / Rettig folks residing or else when my Retgen ancestors perhaps took up radish farming.
HG = unnamed samples from a data base

Huracan
04-07-17, 15:51
I recently checked the T Project on FTDNA and saw some new CTS8862 individuals:

133970 Meir Piwowicz, b.c. 1858, Tykocin, Poland (interesting because DYS390 is 21 instead of usual 22)
562486 unknown (clusters with you, so might actually be Z19945)
N164010 Greco (reappeared in my cluster with Lee)
N145191 unknown (my cluster with Lee)
N184890 unknown (my cluster with Lee)

They also grouped a whole bunch of previously mixed individuals with the Polish one into a huge CTS8862 group that includes a large Jewish component.

Salento
04-07-17, 15:58
I'm Greco


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Salento
04-07-17, 16:23
I'm going to assume that there are al least about 20 T CTS8862 related to me in the Province of Lecce in Puglia Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Salento
04-07-17, 16:32
My Ancestry from Geno 2 NG Helix
8916

Huracan
04-07-17, 17:06
I'm Greco


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Oh hello! Welcome

Huracan
04-07-17, 17:10
I'm going to assume that there are al least about 20 T CTS8862 related to me in the Province of Lecce in Puglia Italy.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=89698)

Fascinating, so we have more CTS8862 in Italy! Do you know any historical information on your paternal line?

Salento
04-07-17, 17:37
I've seen burocatic documents from Paternal side going back up to 200+ years, and they were all born in the province of Lecce.
No Family Stories that point to other Places.

Sile
13-07-17, 19:27
I recently checked the T Project on FTDNA and saw some new CTS8862 individuals:

133970 Meir Piwowicz, b.c. 1858, Tykocin, Poland (interesting because DYS390 is 21 instead of usual 22)
562486 unknown (clusters with you, so might actually be Z19945)
N164010 Greco (reappeared in my cluster with Lee)
N145191 unknown (my cluster with Lee)
N184890 unknown (my cluster with Lee)

They also grouped a whole bunch of previously mixed individuals with the Polish one into a huge CTS8862 group that includes a large Jewish component.

checked out #133970 , he and another with same marker, come from ancient Guttones lands of Poland, bordering old prussia

The Greek explorer Pytheas (4th century BC) may have referred to the territory as Mentenomon and to the inhabitants as Guttones (neighbours of the Teutones). A river to the east of the Vistula was called the Guttalus. ......................unsure if this was sarmatian lands or not

Sile
24-08-17, 20:02
As for my T group ..T1a2 , the oldest link I have as per yfull is seen as the link via
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54* Erzya-Bulgars/Macedonian group...............where Erzya, IIRC is in modern southern Russia.
although I have some west-asian, I have basically no Greek, iberian or north-africa/african genetic markers...........although I do have some Anatolian

The link with some Belgae/Walloons is best related that they are alpine/italic based on markers rather than my line originated from this low countries area.

Sile
29-08-17, 23:13
Based on yfull test and the T tree

below is the only spot I fit

https://s20.postimg.org/sw1so93el/me_t1a2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
30-08-17, 00:04
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/d1065a85116c7945dbcfaa03cc9b4891.jpg

Sile
03-09-17, 01:07
@KF
Are you kit# N118478
if so you are noted as having cts1848 now
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Iberian
.
4 other cts1848 where processed 3 months ago , kits are
96359
93767
93761
93904
all are noted as
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>[CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848]? Germany
.
and there is also another belgium
536211
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Belgium
.
all have 22 for DYS390

Sile
03-09-17, 01:41
@kf

I ran the yfull plot for myself .....see below

All are T1a2 unless specified

https://s20.postimg.org/khg70ay65/my_plot.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/70j8hfnuh/)

Salento
03-09-17, 08:49
@kf

I ran the yfull plot for myself .....see below

All are T1a2 unless specified

https://s20.postimg.org/khg70ay65/my_plot.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/70j8hfnuh/)

I'm on the same Bracket with Kf, do you if I, or Levi are also effected?

Sile
03-09-17, 11:31
I'm on the same Bracket with Kf, do you if I, or Levi are also effected?
this is KF plots
https://s20.postimg.org/juhaas1a5/kf_plot.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/uhb3g79fd/)
the south Italy is kit # N4188 .............not sure who that is
I am unsure about Levi either............but he is from north England

Salento
03-09-17, 14:13
Thank you Sile. :)

Salento
03-09-17, 20:02
FTDNA has my Terminal snp as CTS8862, and negative PAGES00113, Y17493.
Also negative Y21204, Y7381, Y7438, and so on.
My FTDNA Y snp download file doesn't have Z19945 , but it does have CTS1848.
Is that a Prediction?

Sile
03-09-17, 20:09
FTDNA has my Terminal snp as CTS8862, and negative PAGES00113, Y17493.
Also negative Y21204, Y7381, Y7438, and so on.
My FTDNA Y snp download file doesn't have Z19945 , but it does have CTS1848.
Is that a Prediction?
if you are positive CTS1848, then you are positive for Z19945 and then your line is 500years younger than mine because Yfull has me as Z19945 with negative CTS1848
.
Negative known SNP are always older than positive ones

Salento
03-09-17, 21:38
Thanks, I wasn't sure if FTDNA Y snp download file Report All snps or just the Positives.

Sile
04-09-17, 20:38
Thanks, I wasn't sure if FTDNA Y snp download file Report All snps or just the Positives.
Ftdna is behind in its tree..
..
here is KF
N118478 38 13 5 T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Iberian
as noted by the yfull team .............and you are in the same group as KF IIRC
..
they have also found these new Z19945 people from about 2 months ago
https://s20.postimg.org/bpynfyxrx/z19945_german.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
I have no idea where the 5 digit kit numbers are from , ie, company

Huracan
05-09-17, 17:17
@KF
Are you kit# N118478
if so you are noted as having cts1848 now
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Iberian
.
4 other cts1848 where processed 3 months ago , kits are
96359
93767
93761
93904
all are noted as
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>[CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848]? Germany
.
and there is also another belgium
536211
T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Belgium
.
all have 22 for DYS390

Where is this denoted? FTDNA? If so, this is exciting!

Sile
05-09-17, 19:45
Where is this denoted? FTDNA? If so, this is exciting!

http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/
..
the site is run by the same people who run yfull program

Sile
24-10-17, 18:51
the age of my z19945 has moved further back
https://s20.postimg.org/z0xho2a31/t-z19945.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
so 3410 less ydp which is the year 1950 gives me a year of 1460BC

Sile
06-11-17, 18:35
@KF
are you in yfull and is that IBS below yourself?
My yfull matches ......
.
https://s20.postimg.org/wrzqtaa8d/snp_match.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5u5trjpl5/).
.
.
Spoke/written to Reddick knox and he says his origins are from Hesse Germany and the original surname was Radich ( radish in German )
.
Spoke to Bernot and he said he was walloon and his ancestors where cannon makers for the spanish in Spanish netherlands.
.
The Italian is from Trentino/South Tyrol .........I cannot make contact
.
PUR is from originally Galicia Spain
.
The blank country one is surname Hill from South Carolina, a horse trader, origins are west Scottish

Huracan
06-11-17, 21:16
@KF
are you in yfull and is that IBS below yourself?
My yfull matches ......
.
https://s20.postimg.org/wrzqtaa8d/snp_match.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5u5trjpl5/).
.
.
Spoke/written to Reddick knox and he says his origins are from Hesse Germany and the original surname was Radich ( radish in German )
.
Spoke to Bernot and he said he was walloon and his ancestors where cannon makers for the spanish in Spanish netherlands.
.
The Italian is from Trentino/South Tyrol .........I cannot make contact
.
PUR is from originally Galicia Spain
.
The blank country one is surname Hill from South Carolina, a horse trader, origins are west Scottish

Remember you said that those HG samples were from papers, so no that is not me. I have not submitted/uploaded to YFull.

Interesting info from the other members!

Sile
07-11-17, 18:21
Remember you said that those HG samples were from papers, so no that is not me. I have not submitted/uploaded to YFull.
Interesting info from the other members!
Have you changed your site name? How did you do that?
Yes HG are people included by the yfull from older studies , these are not fabricated numbers , but real people. I will ask yfull about the IBS person, I have a suspicion that it might be from Giron Spain.

Huracan
08-11-17, 02:28
Have you changed your site name? How did you do that?
Yes HG are people included by the yfull from older studies , these are not fabricated numbers , but real people. I will ask yfull about the IBS person, I have a suspicion that it might be from Giron Spain.

I Google searched how to change one's username on Eupedia and it gave me a forum where they provided private message link to Maciamo. There you can request a username change!

Sile
18-11-17, 05:26
@Alpenjager
As part of this 2015 paper
United in death—related by blood? Genetic and archeometric analyses of skeletal remains from the neolithic earthwork bruchsal-aue
Authors
First published: 25 March 2015Full publication history
I was given these Ydna samples
BrA 7a = I2a2a M223
BrA 7B = T - L131
I1 = I2c1a2 S6687
I2 = Qm3a6 L804
I3 = I2a2b L38
A1 = J2a1 Z6065
A2 = I1
A3 = R1b
A4 = R1b
Do you have these or the paper in your historic samples ?

Alpenjager
22-11-17, 22:50
BrA 7a // DYS393= -, DYS393=13, DYS385=16, DYS389-I=14, DYS437=(13)/(14), DYS456=14, DYS458=16, DYS635= -

BrA 7b // DYS393= -, DYS393=13, DYS385=(16), DYS389-I=14, DYS437=(15), DYS456=14, DYS458=16, DYS635= -

BrA 7a and Bra 7b is the same individual sample with two different tries to get results.

Feature =162
Grabe number =1
Ind. (lit.) =8
Ind.(this study) =BrA 7
Tooth sample =47
Analyses = aDNA, Sr
Bone sample =Femur Left
Analyses =Sr, C, N
Morph. age =30–35
Morph. sex =Male
Genetic sex =Male
Stress indicators =C. orbitalia/cranii

Teaford
07-12-17, 01:35
OK - I ordered the Big Y on 11/15 - maybe I'll be able to push through this 'mystery'.


I had my brother's DNA tested a few years back and we've been reclassified several times. T-L131, T-PAGES00011 and now it looks like we are probably L446+ CTS11984 and maybe S27463.

I sent a question in to the administrators of the T group over on FTDNA because it just seems so weird to me to be the 'only' T-PAGES00011 for so long and here is Gareth's reply - btw, I hope the BIG Y sale is a really good one this year.

Hello Susan

As far as I can tell your brother is the only T-PAGES00011 in the database. PAGES00011 was originally discovered in haplogroup A and when searching I found a PAGES00011+ example in haplogroup R. It therefore appears to be a recurrent SNP and possibly unreliable. I strongly suspect that when FTDNA added it to their tree a few years ago the person analysing the data made the fundamental error of not checking whether SNPs had more than one occurrance in the same haplogroup.

So I would disregard your brother's T-PAGES00011 designation. What we do know from his Geno 2.0 results is that he is L446+ CTS11984-. We have 4 kits with this combination who have tested Big Y and three of them share a number of novel SNPs including S27463. One of them (379058) is closer to your brother than the other two and in fact is quite high up on his list of matches at 67 markers - see the attached screen shot (I have also included the matches at 111 markers although 379058 hasn't tested to that level). I think it's very likely that your brother is S27463+ and shares many novel SNPs with 379058.

I believe FTDNA are about to announce their annual Fathers' Day sale. If Big Y is included in the sale I would encourage you to go ahead and order the test.

Best wishes

Gareth Henson

Sile
26-12-17, 20:56
@huracan

As of yesterday , you have been placed in the T-Z19945 group ( ftdna project ) along with myself and the 3 x Walloon/East French people ..........the other is the Hessian named Radich

Parthamaspates
29-12-17, 17:32
Greetings everyone,


I did receive recently my test results. For my paternal line I received: T-CTS6507 as my subclade. Although nearly every first and second degree ancestor from my family lives since the 18th century in Persia, there is a family myth that my fathers ancestors came from southern Italy. Honestly I did not think that the test would confirm anything but my autosomal results did show about 1/3 from the italian region (17.9% from Tuscany, 12,4% from South Italy and 2.2% from North Italy).
I would like to know if there is a way to find more information from my y-subclade or from my raw data, since I saw more "recent" T-subclades online.


Best regards

Sile
29-12-17, 18:19
Greetings everyone,
I did receive recently my test results. For my paternal line I received: T-CTS6507 as my subclade. Although nearly every first and second degree ancestor from my family lives since the 18th century in Persia, there is a family myth that my fathers ancestors came from southern Italy. Honestly I did not think that the test would confirm anything but my autosomal results did show about 1/3 from the italian region (17.9% from Tuscany, 12,4% from South Italy and 2.2% from North Italy).
I would like to know if there is a way to find more information from my y-subclade or from my raw data, since I saw more "recent" T-subclades online.
Best regards
Hi...Do you have or have tested for CTS6280?........as some are found in Messina Sicily.
.
CTS6280 is the next SNP after CTS6507

davef
29-12-17, 18:32
Greetings everyone,

I did receive recently my test results. For my paternal line I received: T-CTS6507 as my subclade. Although nearly every first and second degree ancestor from my family lives since the 18th century in Persia, there is a family myth that my fathers ancestors came from southern Italy. Honestly I did not think that the test would confirm anything but my autosomal results did show about 1/3 from the italian region (17.9% from Tuscany, 12,4% from South Italy and 2.2% from North Italy).
I would like to know if there is a way to find more information from my y-subclade or from my raw data, since I saw more "recent" T-subclades online.

Best regards

Hello and welcome! Question, what test gave you those Italian percentages?

Parthamaspates
29-12-17, 22:26
Thank you for your quick answers! I made the regular test on Living DNA, testing the paternal, maternal and the autosomal mixture. These percentages are from my "complete" family ancestry chart. Unfortunately CTS6280 is not included in the shown tree. Is there a chance that it is included in the raw data?


I encountered on "yfull.com" the following sample from a person from Caligari only showing the CTS6507 (id:ERS256914).

Huracan
01-01-18, 01:29
Thank you for your quick answers! I made the regular test on Living DNA, testing the paternal, maternal and the autosomal mixture. These percentages are from my "complete" family ancestry chart. Unfortunately CTS6280 is not included in the shown tree. Is there a chance that it is included in the raw data?


I encountered on "yfull.com" the following sample from a person from Caligari only showing the CTS6507 (id:ERS256914).

Hi welcome Parthamaspates! Good thing you checked YFull it is a good resource. If you look closer at the CTS6507 clade, there are two men that are designated CTS6507* meaning that they do not belong to the subgroupings that occur below this group. It also means that they are strictly CTS6507+, sharing the same mutation/SNP as you and most related to you.

9594

Here you can see that besides the Italian (from Cagliari, Sardinia) (who is CTS6507+) there is an Iraqi (from Thi Qar in SE Iraq) and Egyptian (Sohag).

Huracan
01-01-18, 01:34
@huracan

As of yesterday , you have been placed in the T-Z19945 group ( ftdna project ) along with myself and the 3 x Walloon/East French people ..........the other is the Hessian named Radich

This is good! Hope to see further progress as our clade grows and we find more information on it

davef
01-01-18, 02:31
Greetings everyone,


I did receive recently my test results. For my paternal line I received: T-CTS6507 as my subclade. Although nearly every first and second degree ancestor from my family lives since the 18th century in Persia, there is a family myth that my fathers ancestors came from southern Italy. Honestly I did not think that the test would confirm anything but my autosomal results did show about 1/3 from the italian region (17.9% from Tuscany, 12,4% from South Italy and 2.2% from North Italy).
I would like to know if there is a way to find more information from my y-subclade or from my raw data, since I saw more "recent" T-subclades online.


Best regards
I now know why you chose that user name:
from wiki

"Parthamaspates, was the Roman (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire) client king (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client_king) of the Parthian Empire (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire) and later of Osroene (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osroene). He was the son of the Parthian emperor Osroes I (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osroes_I)."

Sile
01-01-18, 09:31
This is good! Hope to see further progress as our clade grows and we find more information on it

The STR are being redone..........so let's see .................I think I am over 1000 years from you , but you and the walloons look like you are inside of 500years

Sile
01-01-18, 09:35
Thank you for your quick answers! I made the regular test on Living DNA, testing the paternal, maternal and the autosomal mixture. These percentages are from my "complete" family ancestry chart. Unfortunately CTS6280 is not included in the shown tree. Is there a chance that it is included in the raw data?
I encountered on "yfull.com" the following sample from a person from Caligari only showing the CTS6507 (id:ERS256914).
the SNP that yfull found in ERS256914
ERS256914 960 952 ...T-CTS6507 .....T-Y7794, ....T-Y4963, ....T-Y31474
so branch CTS6507 with the 3 SNP confirmed

Parthamaspates
01-01-18, 13:32
Hi welcome Parthamaspates! Good thing you checked YFull it is a good resource. If you look closer at the CTS6507 clade, there are two men that are designated CTS6507* meaning that they do not belong to the subgroupings that occur below this group. It also means that they are strictly CTS6507+, sharing the same mutation/SNP as you and most related to you.


Here you can see that besides the Italian (from Cagliari, Sardinia) (who is CTS6507+) there is an Iraqi (from Thi Qar in SE Iraq) and Egyptian (Sohag).



ERS256914 960 952 ...T-CTS6507 .....T-Y7794, ....T-Y4963, ....T-Y31474

so branch CTS6507 with the 3 SNP confirmed


I wish you all a happy new year filled with health and success! Thank you for the explanations. I checked also the list on The Y-DNA Haplogroup T (former K2) Project from Family Tree DNA, and found very detailed information about other T-carriers. My question is if one marker is included in my "Y-chromosome raw Data" is it positive ? For example, if CTS2860 is shown it is positive, if it is not included it would mean that it is either not checked or negative am I thinking correctly?




I now know why you chose that user name:
from wiki


"Parthamaspates, was the Roman client king of the Parthian Empire and later of Osroene. He was the son of the Parthian emperor Osroes I."





Exactly, That is why I chose it davef! :laughing: The Parthians were philhellen, used Greek the language, enjoyed Greek theater and Parthamaspates grew up in Roman exile even had a roman wive. I found it quite suitable. I am born and raised in Europe and my way of life and way of thinking is a western way.

Hamed
01-01-18, 16:04
Dear Friends,I've recently had my Haplogroup and SNP results from Family Tree DNA.I was confirmed for HG T, SNP Y3781. My great-grandfather was from the Caucasus.Where? No one knows, since he was killed fighting the Bolsheviks.My grandfather and his small family moved to Azerbaijan(Baku) when he was 5 and later to Iran where I and my father where born.They all died when I was a baby and we moved to Canada, so I have no idea about my ancestors.We physically look very middle-eastern with light brown skin as oppose to many tribes of the Caucasus,which have white complexions.If you see me,you would think I'm an Arab man.Does any one know anything about Y3781? Where is it predominant? Correct me if I'm wrong.My theory is that maybe our ancestors came from the Arabic peninsula in the 8th century to conquer south Caucasus,and settled there.The reason I think this is,in the 8th century south Caucasus was under the rule of arab general Yazid Ibn Mazyad al-Shaybani.Shayban tribe is from Bakr Ibn Wail.In todays Arabic sites,this tribe is tested as Haplogroup T.Also in the first Khazar-Arab war, the general was AbduRahman Ibn Rabiah.The Rabiah tribe is also Haplogroup T. Please shed some light on this matter as you are all very knowledgeable and I'm very new to this.Thank you very much dear Friends.-Hamed

ioshic
06-02-18, 16:49
Hi everyone,

I am a newbie here...I am from Rome, Italy.
I was able to understand that my haplogroup is T, but my assignment in the Haplogroup T project is still "obscure" to me... actually, really obscure ))

My kit in FTDNA is: 640824 . Oldest ancestor Cristoforo Iacobini.

In the family we used to know that they came from Spain in 16th century, then to North of Italy (Parma), then in the 17th to Rome, and here we are... but who knows if it's true, if nothing "happened" during the centuries (love is a strange thing...) etc etc.

It seems I am positive at: CTS 933 - CTS6071

Of course.... it says "unmatched" in the FTDNA, but under "Gamma-1.9-X T-CTS933 (CTS11984-) unmatched"-

It's totally obscure to me. Could you please help me out?
I cannot attach a link yet unfortunately..

Thank you so much for any help you can provide me.

Sile
07-02-18, 05:45
Hi everyone,
I am a newbie here...I am from Rome, Italy.
I was able to understand that my haplogroup is T, but my assignment in the Haplogroup T project is still "obscure" to me... actually, really obscure ))
My kit in FTDNA is: 640824 . Oldest ancestor Cristoforo Iacobini.
In the family we used to know that they came from Spain in 16th century, then to North of Italy (Parma), then in the 17th to Rome, and here we are... but who knows if it's true, if nothing "happened" during the centuries (love is a strange thing...) etc etc.
It seems I am positive at: CTS 933 - CTS6071
Of course.... it says "unmatched" in the FTDNA, but under "Gamma-1.9-X T-CTS933 (CTS11984-) unmatched"-
It's totally obscure to me. Could you please help me out?
I cannot attach a link yet unfortunately..
Thank you so much for any help you can provide me.

ciao
read this first for an overview
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184
.
.
.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Haplogroup_T-M184_tree.png
on here your branch is bottom left ....look for CTS933 and that is your branch , we just need to figure our where you belong
.
.
write to
Gareth Henson [email protected] , Group Administrator
very helpful
.
.
Anteprima araldica cognome: Iacobini
Ordina adesso il Tuo Documento Araldico
Corona nobiliare IacobiniAntica ed assai nobile famiglia, detta Iacobini o Giacobini, originaria da Collamato (Marche) che poi si trasportò a Staffolo (Diocesi di Osimo) dove godette nobiltà. Le memorie di essa risalgono al 1500 circa, e riconosce come suo capostipite un Ugolino. Tra i personaggi che, maggiormente, le diedero lustro, ricordiamo quel Gio. Battista (1581), dottore in ambo le leggi, segretario di giustizia del principe Ranuccio I Farnese duca di Parma e Modena e del principe Odoardo suo figlio; auditore del cardinale Odoardo Farnese. Costrusse nel 1651, con juspatronato, una cappella in onore di S. Francesco Saverio. Odoardo (1646) fu anche egli dottore in ambo le leggi, ebbe onorevoli incarichi dai duchi di Parma. Si stabilì a Roma, dove, in morte di Clemente X fu Caporione dei Rioni..Costui fu anche giudice delle cause civili e criminali in Campidoglio, assessore della Regione dei Monti e si benemeritò dai Conservatori di Roma, tanto che ...

.
Iacobini is very likely to be from Jacopo /Jacobo ...........I cannot remember when the J was replaced in italian language to the long I , but northern Italy retained the J for a much longer period

Sile
09-02-18, 20:04
N145191 is now part of my group in the Ftdna T project. His surname is Cockley but he has a identical match with the surname Caquelin so I suspect his ancestry is French. And it is the same family.
BTW.....it is Gockley and not Cockley ..........ancestry given to me was
-Nicholas Caquelin 1650 from Walersbach Alsace has son
-Sebastian Caquelin (1689 - 1751), married Marie Banzet ( Benzing )(1684 - 1733), her parents are Christopher Banzet/Benzing of Bellefosse and Jehanne Neuviller
-Jean Nicholas Caquelin (1718-1796) married Magdalena Barbara Eberly, her parents are Michael Eberly and Veronica Ulrich
.
I am confused on why Ulrich and Benzing appear as matching me on Ftdna
Banzet must be french for german Benzing
.
.
@ Salento ..........anything on your side ?...........I see you still sit with the York England mr.Lee

Salento
09-02-18, 22:55
N145191 is now part of my group in the Ftdna T project. His surname is Cockley but he has a identical match with the surname Caquelin so I suspect his ancestry is French. And it is the same family.
BTW.....it is Gockley and not Cockley ..........ancestry given to me was
-Nicholas Caquelin 1650 from Walersbach Alsace has son
-Sebastian Caquelin (1689 - 1751), married Marie Banzet ( Benzing )(1684 - 1733), her parents are Christopher Banzet/Benzing of Bellefosse and Jehanne Neuviller
-Jean Nicholas Caquelin (1718-1796) married Magdalena Barbara Eberly, her parents are Michael Eberly and Veronica Ulrich
.
I am confused on why Ulrich and Benzing appear as matching me on Ftdna
Banzet must be french for german Benzing
.
.
@ Salento ..........anything on your side ?...........I see you still sit with the York England mr.Lee
You did told me to contact the Admin, but I can’t find that Info. Would you mind to tell me again? Sorry Sile. [emoji846]
At FTDNA I’m still Confirmed T CTS8862, as you know I’m negative for CTS1848 plus the rest, and Z19945 is in Blue, but when a click on it I don’t get the option to test it.

Sile
09-02-18, 23:23
You did told me to contact the Admin, but I can’t find that Info. Would you mind to tell me again? Sorry Sile. [emoji846]
At FTDNA I’m still Confirmed T CTS8862, as you know I’m negative for CTS1848 plus the rest, and Z19945 is in Blue, but when a click on it I don’t get the option to test it.

Gareth Henson
[email protected]

Salento
10-02-18, 00:20
Gareth Henson
[email protected]

Thank you, Sile. [emoji120] [emoji2]

Sile
14-02-18, 01:10
Thank you, Sile. [emoji120] [emoji2]
Just spoke to a mr. Termini who is also T1a2 from Sciacca Sicily.........seems like there are really only 3 areas in Italy for T1a2 ....Eastern Sicliy, then the messapic/north abruzzo /marche areas ( maybe with ancient Sabines in the mix ) and the alps ( usually only south Tyrol, northern veneto as well as north Tyrol with swiss saint-gallen area )
western side of Italian peninsula seems bare unless for migration......slovenia samples are all migrations from Trento ( south Tyrol ) , the croatian islands seem to fit the notion of Dalmatians ( as per book Venice and the slavs ) referred to as the only "illyrians " in the venetian archives as per the book
Tuscany ?!? ...not sure what is there

Salento
14-02-18, 03:29
Just spoke to a mr. Termini who is also T1a2 from Sciacca Sicily.........seems like there are really only 3 areas in Italy for T1a2 ....Eastern Sicliy, then the messapic/north abruzzo /marche areas ( maybe with ancient Sabines in the mix ) and the alps ( usually only south Tyrol, northern veneto as well as north Tyrol with swiss saint-gallen area )
western side of Italian peninsula seems bare unless for migration......slovenia samples are all migrations from Trento ( south Tyrol ) , the croatian islands seem to fit the notion of Dalmatians ( as per book Venice and the slavs ) referred to as the only "illyrians " in the venetian archives as per the book
Tuscany ?!? ...not sure what is there

If T1a2 was present on the Ancient Sabines, and the Legend of the Sabine Women has some truth on it, that also add another explanation for the low frequency of the Haplogroup.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

Sile
22-03-18, 07:01
Another T1a2-z19945 match in ftdna
John Brooks .......check link for the john with 3g in his name
https://www.tributaries.info/ui49.htm#a2
his father John 1g ..........is from Windsor, Connecticut.......the same place as the family named Drake from Windsor, Connecticut. They where also haplogroup T

Sile
04-04-18, 20:32
Yfull tree upgrade to 6.02 has made another private SNP for me ....Y70078 4 star .............only change for me
SNP and STR matches have no change ........still have the Bernot family from Walloon Belgium, the Radich family from Hesse Germany and an ancient sardinian from ( i cannot remember his name but starts with F ) the 1200 samples paper

Salento
05-04-18, 03:09
Yfull tree upgrade to 6.02 has made another private SNP for me ....Y70078 4 star .............only change for me
SNP and STR matches have no change ........still have the Bernot family from Walloon Belgium, the Radich family from Hesse Germany and an ancient sardinian from ( i cannot remember his name but starts with F ) the 1200 samples paper

Do you know if Y70078 is right below Z19945, or are there others SNPs between?

Sile
05-04-18, 08:43
Do you know if Y70078 is right below Z19945, or are there others SNPs between?

it replaced A339 which is also private with 3 stars ............Y70078 is higher for me but still private

https://s20.postimg.org/sw1so93el/me_t1a2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Sile
05-04-18, 08:46
currently studing medes and maji peoples from Turkmenistan
......some info
Along Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups I M170, and I P215, the third most common haplogroup among the Iranian Zoroastrian Priesthood is T1a2.
While the original I haplogroups appear to go back to the Magis of Zarathustra and BMAC culture, the latter T1a2 haplogroup must hail back to the Median Magi from the West. T1a2 or (T L131) has been found as far East as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. T1a2 penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe of Eurasia during the Neolithic, and became integrated to the indigenous R1a peoples (Proto Indo Iranians) before their expansion to Central Asia during the Bronze Age.
younger than the T1 ydna hunters that went into Europe pre neolithic times........but still, good to check out....I will keep you posted

Alpenjager
05-04-18, 20:55
currently studing medes and maji peoples from Turkmenistan
......some info
Along Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups I M170, and I P215, the third most common haplogroup among the Iranian Zoroastrian Priesthood is T1a2.
While the original I haplogroups appear to go back to the Magis of Zarathustra and BMAC culture, the latter T1a2 haplogroup must hail back to the Median Magi from the West. T1a2 or (T L131) has been found as far East as the Volga-Ural region of Russia and Xinjiang in north-west China. T1a2 penetrated into the Pontic-Caspian Steppe of Eurasia during the Neolithic, and became integrated to the indigenous R1a peoples (Proto Indo Iranians) before their expansion to Central Asia during the Bronze Age.
younger than the T1 ydna hunters that went into Europe pre neolithic times........but still, good to check out....I will keep you posted

Zoroastrian Mobeds belong to T1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a-CTS6507.

55% of Zoroastrian Priests from India = L1
25% of Zoroastrian Priests from Iran = T1a

Sile
05-04-18, 21:06
Zoroastrian Mobeds belong to T1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a-CTS6507.

i expect all 4 T haplogroups to be involved ................since the founder of Zorastrian was born in Turkmenistan , I will be checking it out ..
will check on
Mobeds
Maji
Medes
and bactrian societies

Sile
05-04-18, 21:08
it replaced A339 which is also private with 3 stars ............Y70078 is higher for me but still private

https://s20.postimg.org/sw1so93el/me_t1a2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

this private Y70078 only appeared in the latest Yfull tree....6.02

only has A339 previously

Sile
03-05-18, 23:38
this private Y70078 only appeared in the latest Yfull tree....6.02

only has A339 previously

Yfull now has me with a private SNP BY32027 in hg38 system .............BY = bigY after y500 results

Salento
07-05-18, 04:01
Another T1a2-z19945 match in ftdna
John Brooks .......check link for the john with 3g in his name
https://www.tributaries.info/ui49.htm#a2
his father John 1g ..........is from Windsor, Connecticut.......the same place as the family named Drake from Windsor, Connecticut. They where also haplogroup T
John Brooks goes back to the 1600s, around Connecticut (as you know, the proximity is just a coincidence).
I can’t find an updated reliable source about Thomas Jefferson relatives Y T subgroups.
I’ve probably been looking in the wrong places.
Jefferson and Brooks were contemporary, and .... , you know what I mean. What if.

Alpenjager
07-05-18, 15:14
John Brooks goes back to the 1600s, around Connecticut (as you know, the proximity is just a coincidence).
I can’t find an updated reliable source about Thomas Jefferson relatives Y T subgroups.
I’ve probably been looking in the wrong places.
Jefferson and Brooks were contemporary, and .... , you know what I mean. What if.

Thomas Jefferson belongs to T1a1a1b1a1a1-PF7444. Is a 5300ybp large and widely distributed West Eurasia T subclade also found well distributed in Great Britain but sadly still understudied in comparison to other T branches..

Huracan
09-05-18, 01:56
@Sile

I checked the semargl site and saw a CTS1848+ individual labeled as Greek... do you know anything about this?
10082

Sile
09-05-18, 20:02
@Sile
I checked the semargl site and saw a CTS1848+ individual labeled as Greek... do you know anything about this?
10082
I cannot open your link
what is the kit # in Semargl ?
.
The Semargl map search indicates greek , but no greek listed
The closest greek i found is the one that states from russia (erzya ) to macedonia
.
the closest search for myself using the old search system in that site is below

https://s20.postimg.cc/pan8z6hwt/closest_sema.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Huracan
14-05-18, 19:03
My apologies, for I realized Eupedia is not correctly linking attachments. The site will not show me the kit #s but their listed entry is T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Greek

Sile
14-05-18, 19:46
My apologies, for I realized Eupedia is not correctly linking attachments. The site will not show me the kit #s but their listed entry is T1a2b Y6033>CTS933>CTS54>CTS8489>Z19945>CTS1848 Greek

I have found no kit # for this greek.....maybe semargyl team ( which is the Yfull team ) only listed a "maybe" branch.

BTW........we discussed your surname many years and I stated it could be italian via a name of an ancient mining place near bergamo ......a spaniard in facebook looking for your name states it does not exist in Spain and stated it was could be Italian...........have you found anything more on this?

Huracan
15-05-18, 00:25
I have found no kit # for this greek.....maybe semargyl team ( which is the Yfull team ) only listed a "maybe" branch.

BTW........we discussed your surname many years and I stated it could be italian via a name of an ancient mining place near bergamo ......a spaniard in facebook looking for your name states it does not exist in Spain and stated it was could be Italian...........have you found anything more on this?

I am still researching into its origins, a never-ending investigation. Multiple records confirm its earliest presence in the Canary Islands in the 1700s but I cannot find a mainland Spanish connection. I know of another Fundora family who said their recent ancestors (3-4 generations ago) came to Cuba from either Galicia or Asturias (northern Spain). This led me to think of a NE Spanish origin, maybe Portuguese (there are Portuguese surnames like Fontoura and Fundo that could have evolved into Fundora). Cannot say for certain yet.

Who is this Spaniard that said that? I have found info on Fundora in Spain but these are current stats, nothing about in the past. Whether these are Latin Americans who moved to Spain or actual Spaniards is hard to tell...
https://apellido.enfemenino.com/w/apellidos/apellido-fundora-leon.html
http://lastnames.genoom.com/es/apellido/Fundora/Espa%C3%B1a
http://www.ine.es/widgets/nombApell/index.shtml - searching for Fundora shows it pop up in specific parts of Spain

Alpenjager
16-05-18, 21:34
Fundora is not a spanish surname as far as i know. There is none native born in spain with this surname even not in Canary islands according to INE, all of them are migrants.
You should look also for Fundaro a rare Italian surname.

Huracan
17-05-18, 16:26
Fundora is not a spanish surname as far as i know. There is none native born in spain with this surname even not in Canary islands according to INE, all of them are migrants.
You should look also for Fundaro a rare Italian surname.

Yes I remember a while ago seeing on INE or another site that most of the Fundoras in Spain were foreign-born (pretty sure almost all Cuban), but can't seem to find how to access that info again. This is why I am leaning towards a Portuguese origin due to my closest genetic matches (Azoreans, Brazilians, etc.), etymology of the surname and similar sounding ones (Fundo, Fontoura), and the history of the Canaries.

However, I cannot rule out an Italian origin especially given the Fondora of Lucca and the few times it has been written as Fundora in Italian texts. I've looked into Fundaro before (Sicilian) and it might be an option, who knows.

Sile
17-05-18, 20:28
Yes I remember a while ago seeing on INE or another site that most of the Fundoras in Spain were foreign-born (pretty sure almost all Cuban), but can't seem to find how to access that info again. This is why I am leaning towards a Portuguese origin due to my closest genetic matches (Azoreans, Brazilians, etc.), etymology of the surname and similar sounding ones (Fundo, Fontoura), and the history of the Canaries.
However, I cannot rule out an Italian origin especially given the Fondora of Lucca and the few times it has been written as Fundora in Italian texts. I've looked into Fundaro before (Sicilian) and it might be an option, who knows.
Are you referring to this family who controlled the mint ( zecca) of Lucca
maestri della zecca di Lucca. Il più noto della famiglia è Lazzaro de Fondora, dovizioso mercante, che fece erigere nel 1309 la chiesa di S. Maria e S. Francesco nei borghi della città, donandola ai Frati Minori. Fu padre di Bonaccorso, detto Cosicorino, che spoò Gentucca Morla, la giovanetta che avrebbe fatto piacere Lucca a Dante, secondo la profezia di Bonagiunta Orbicciani. Nel 1541 il capitano Paolino Fondora difese Anversa contro gli Spagnoli.
.
http://www.cognomix.it/stemma-famiglia/fondora
.
http://www.copernicum.it/manuscript/memoriale-e-storia-della-famiglia-fondora-in-lucca-1411505
.
http://www.archiviodistato.firenze.it/ceramellipapiani/index.php?page=Famiglia&id=3240

Huracan
18-05-18, 04:44
Are you referring to this family who controlled the mint ( zecca) of Lucca
maestri della zecca di Lucca. Il più noto della famiglia è Lazzaro de Fondora, dovizioso mercante, che fece erigere nel 1309 la chiesa di S. Maria e S. Francesco nei borghi della città, donandola ai Frati Minori. Fu padre di Bonaccorso, detto Cosicorino, che spoò Gentucca Morla, la giovanetta che avrebbe fatto piacere Lucca a Dante, secondo la profezia di Bonagiunta Orbicciani. Nel 1541 il capitano Paolino Fondora difese Anversa contro gli Spagnoli.
.
http://www.cognomix.it/stemma-famiglia/fondora
.
http://www.copernicum.it/manuscript/memoriale-e-storia-della-famiglia-fondora-in-lucca-1411505
.
http://www.archiviodistato.firenze.it/ceramellipapiani/index.php?page=Famiglia&id=3240

Yes that one. They are the ones who dominate the historical records and texts.

Sile
05-06-18, 20:07
Another Belgium found with Z19945 ............Jean Halpeau 1509-1589 .............I will speak with the Walloon ( x3 memebrs ) whose ancestors prior to belgium came via Riese Pio in Veneto Italy ( he is the one whose ancestors fled with the Spanish to North Spain after the collapse of the Spanish Netherlands)

Salento
05-06-18, 22:15
Another Belgium found with Z19945 ............Jean Halpeau 1509-1589 .............I will speak with the Walloon ( x3 memebrs ) whose ancestors prior to belgium came via Riese Pio in Veneto Italy ( he is the one whose ancestors fled with the Spanish to North Spain after the collapse of the Spanish Netherlands)
What about #471167 Brooks dated 1695 in the US, also Z19945, do we know if he was a Brits originally or something else?

Sile
06-06-18, 07:19
What about #471167 Brooks dated 1695 in the US, also Z19945, do we know if he was a Brits originally or something else?
Yes british from ......Glastonbury (/ˈɡlæstənbəri/) is a town and civil parish in Somerset, England, .
.
on post #410....the persons line is actually from lezinnes France ..........he is a famous Printer, bookmaker for the french Court
http://data.bnf.fr/16145773/jean_hulpeau/
His father name was Johan

Salento
07-06-18, 01:51
The Italian connection to Z19945, and predecessors is strong.
The members of the Haplo must have not been monolithic, but rather moved around Europe and Italy in multiple Time Periods.
Just an observation.

10259

10258

Pax Augusta
07-06-18, 03:03
Yes I remember a while ago seeing on INE or another site that most of the Fundoras in Spain were foreign-born (pretty sure almost all Cuban), but can't seem to find how to access that info again. This is why I am leaning towards a Portuguese origin due to my closest genetic matches (Azoreans, Brazilians, etc.), etymology of the surname and similar sounding ones (Fundo, Fontoura), and the history of the Canaries.

However, I cannot rule out an Italian origin especially given the Fondora of Lucca and the few times it has been written as Fundora in Italian texts. I've looked into Fundaro before (Sicilian) and it might be an option, who knows.

Hi Huracan,

Fondora from Lucca (very unusual and rare surname) was a medieval family and part of the local nobility, and very probably became extinct a couple of centuries ago. This family is attested starting from 1200s, when the surnames were not yet in today's modern forms, and they were previously known as "de' Bujoli". The name "Fondora" perhaps originates because it refers to the enormous accumulation of landed property by them in the past, especially in the medieval era (in Italian "fondo", "proprietà fondiaria"). According to the Italian telephone directory, surname Fondora does not exist in Italy.

Many Italian, Spanish and Portuguese surnames resemble each other because they share the same Latin roots, not necessarily because people who carry these surnames have some degree of kinship.

By chance, are you related to the Cuban athlete Ivan Fundora?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iv%C3%A1n_Fundora

Sile
07-06-18, 07:07
The Italian connection to Z19945, and predecessors is strong.
The members of the Haplo must have not been monolithic, but rather moved around Europe and Italy in multiple Time Periods.
Just an observation.
10259
10258
you should add the people with just CTS8489 and CTS8862 as Z19945 is relatively new ..............look at post #402 with all these

Salento
07-06-18, 14:07
you should add the people with just CTS8489 and CTS8862 as Z19945 is relatively new ..............look at post #402 with all these

My Focus was specific to Z19945.
Notice the Question Marks (?) next to all the Germans at post #402 ending with CTS1848.
They are maybe “+” for Z19945, but we don’t know if they are “-“ for CTS1848.
CTS1848 is younger than Z19945, and so we don’t know where the Germans (unknown for CTS1848) were before the mutation took place.
And if they are CTS1848, we are Older than them.
For now, according to that Graphic, we don’t know yet.

Sile
07-06-18, 19:55
My Focus was specific to Z19945.
Notice the Question Marks (?) next to all the Germans at post #402 ending with CTS1848.
They are maybe “+” for Z19945, but we don’t know if they are “-“ for CTS1848.
CTS1848 is younger than Z19945, and so we don’t know where the Germans (unknown for CTS1848) were before the mutation took place.
And if they are CTS1848, we are Older than them.
For now, according to that Graphic, we don’t know yet.

negative is always older than positive.....for CTS1848- , it is 500year older than CTS1848+ as per yfull..................
.
I predict there will be a branch split of Z19945 in the future due to CTS1848

Salento
07-06-18, 21:09
negative is always older than positive.....for CTS1848- , it is 500year older than CTS1848+ as per yfull..................
.
I predict there will be a branch split of Z19945 in the future due to CTS1848
I said that we are older because we are Negative for CTS1848.
CTS8862+ Z19945+ CTS1848-

Sile
09-06-18, 02:09
I said that we are older because we are Negative for CTS1848.
CTS8862+ Z19945+ CTS1848-

i know ....i confirmed

Huracan
09-06-18, 05:34
Hi Huracan,

Fondora from Lucca (very unusual and rare surname) was a medieval family and part of the local nobility, and very probably became extinct a couple of centuries ago. This family is attested starting from 1200s, when the surnames were not yet in today's modern forms, and they were previously known as "de' Bujoli". The name "Fondora" perhaps originates because it refers to the enormous accumulation of landed property by them in the past, especially in the medieval era (in Italian "fondo", "proprietà fondiaria"). According to the Italian telephone directory, surname Fondora does not exist in Italy.

Many Italian, Spanish and Portuguese surnames resemble each other because they share the same Latin roots, not necessarily because people who carry these surnames have some degree of kinship.

By chance, are you related to the Cuban athlete Ivan Fundora?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iv%C3%A1n_Fundora

Hello Pax Augusta,

Yes, I am familiar with this background on the medieval Fondora but thanks for the input on the rarity and possible extinction of the surname. I agree that the common Latin base among the languages can lead to "convergent evolution" of names. And no, not related to Ivan... at least that I know about.

Sile
12-06-18, 19:43
@Huracan

Can you find BY32027 in your ftdna .................mine below , it is the same as Y70078 in yfull
https://s20.postimg.cc/j6byl6cnx/by32027.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/f9ymp6ro9/)

Huracan
13-06-18, 06:49
@Huracan

Can you find BY32027 in your ftdna .................mine below , it is the same as Y70078 in yfull
https://s20.postimg.cc/j6byl6cnx/by32027.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/f9ymp6ro9/)

I checked my full SNP list and I did not find this marker. Is it private?

Sile
14-06-18, 07:16
I checked my full SNP list and I did not find this marker. Is it private?

I asked Yfull team .............its private until one other has this SNP, then it becomes a branch

Sile
29-06-18, 23:03
Another T-Z19945

surname Russo from Campobasso province Molise region

molise formed from ancient Samnites peoples
Samnites came via Umbrians
Umbrians via Terramare culture in Romangna
Terramare culture as scholars discuss caome via Pelasgians

The only pelasgian origin I know of, is from Homer, who states they where allies of the Trojans and came from Gallipoli peninsula ancient Thrace

Salento
30-06-18, 00:24
Another T-Z19945

surname Russo from Campobasso province Molise region

molise formed from ancient Samnites peoples
Samnites came via Umbrians
Umbrians via Terramare culture in Romangna
Terramare culture as scholars discuss caome via Pelasgians

The only pelasgian origin I know of, is from Homer, who states they where allies of the Trojans and came from Gallipoli peninsula ancient Thrace

Nice! Puglia and Molise share a Border.
Another Brother from another Mother. LoL
I have DNA Relatives called Russo showing up. Besides being a popular surname. :)

Sile
30-06-18, 19:24
the 2015 italian paper states these for Haplogroup T ( ydna ) ...................the third one is the closest for myself as it states DYS385 (a,b) as 13-15......while I am 13-13
https://s20.postimg.cc/v8g5ym3lp/t1aitalia2015.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/i4allxbjt/)
anyone have a program where I can enter the STR and get a marker for the above
.
.
using Nevgen program
done all...they are
Cuneo T1a2-L131 fitness score 56.3
Brescia T1a2-L131 fitness score 87.6
Vicenza T1a2-L131 fitness score 94.2
Vicenza T1a2-L131 fitness score 92.3
.
La Spezia T1a1 - CTS11451
Siena T1a2-L131 fitness score 99.0
Siena T1a3 Y11151
.
L'Aquila T1a2-L131 fitness score 95.5
L'Aquila T1a3 Y11151
L'Aquila T1a1 - CTS11451
Matrera T1a2-L131 fitness score 68.2
.
Arigeneto T1a2-L131 fitness score 74.2
Ragusa T1a2-L131 fitness score 79.9
Ragusa T1a1 - CTS11451
.
La Spezia T1a1 - CTS11451
L'Aquila T1a1 - CTS11451
L'Aquila T1a1 - CTS11451
L'Aquila T1a1 - CTS11451
Benevento T1a1 - CTS11451
Matera T1a1 - CTS11451
Oristano T1a1 - Y4119

Sile
04-07-18, 07:28
Nice! Puglia and Molise share a Border.
Another Brother from another Mother. LoL
I have DNA Relatives called Russo showing up. Besides being a popular surname. :)

He is kit 290567

another T1a2 is kit 276156 surname Lugosi from Lombardy ..........although also found in Dalmatia
and
N35265 is Michele Caggiano b.1890 in Lacedonia Italy ............town seems on the border of 2 regions

Huracan
04-07-18, 19:43
He is kit 290567

another T1a2 is kit 276156 surname Lugosi from Lombardy ..........although also found in Dalmatia
and
N35265 is Michele Caggiano b.1890 in Lacedonia Italy ............town seems on the border of 2 regions

N35265 is the kit # for the new Z19945 individual that you said was Russo. Is it Russo or this Caggiano person?

Sile
04-07-18, 20:38
N35265 is the kit # for the new Z19945 individual that you said was Russo. Is it Russo or this Caggiano person?
caggiano is correct .....it was an error by me initially
.
.
this one 290567 comes from city called Nola in Italy
.
.
many seem to fit the ...................macro-haplogroup LT is 30% in L'Aquila population. This was the land of Samnium inhabited by the Caraceni......................as noted by another site
.
.
history of the samniums, sabines, sabellians as per scholars is from Umbri peoples , who in turn are from Terramare culture and who are stated by some scholars to be Pelasgians
According to homer, Pelasgians origin is gallipoli peninsula ( ancient thrace , now modern turkey)

Pax Augusta
04-07-18, 22:35
history of the samniums, sabines, sabellians as per scholars is from Umbri peoples , who in turn are from Terramare culture and who are stated by some scholars to be Pelasgians
According to homer, Pelasgians origin is gallipoli peninsula ( ancient thrace , now modern turkey)

So now Samnites, Sabines and Umbrians are from Terramare and Terramare culture is Pelasgian.

Interesting. So now even Italics are Pelasgian.

Is there anyone in Italy who is not Pelasgian, Sile?

Salento
04-07-18, 22:42
Does it mean that there isn’t any Russo surname positive for Z19945 yet?
Or that Russo is Kit #290567?

Sile
05-07-18, 08:48
Does it mean that there isn’t any Russo surname positive for Z19945 yet?
Or that Russo is Kit #290567?

second one

Sile
05-07-18, 08:49
So now Samnites, Sabines and Umbrians are from Terramare and Terramare culture is Pelasgian.
Interesting. So now even Italics are Pelasgian.
Is there anyone in Italy who is not Pelasgian, Sile?
not my call............I do not believe it............I only noted what scholars state
.
I believe the umbrians came via north of the alps as I stated years ago
.
why do you believe they are pelasgians ?
.
are you believing in this? Recent archeological research, and re-evaluations of contemporaneous Greek accounts, such as that of Dionysius of Halicarnassus, tend to link the Terrarmare culture to the Pelasgians –
.
Anyway..........terramare culture was umbrian and it created Villanova culture .............where the etruscans a branch of umbri is the question one needs to ask
.
NE-Italy had Danubian culture ..........via LBK and Rossen cultures .................

Salento
05-07-18, 22:41
second one
That’s great.

Now, about those links I pmed you earlier.
Clarification: I was talking about the map of 117 AD, and Not the map of 7000 bc.
Notice Y T located in Lazio, between Toscana and Campania, or in and around Roma. :)

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Europe-c-117-AD-2k-jpg.jpg
..... The third map shows Europe around 117 AD, which saw the Roman Empire reach its greatest territorial extent.......

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/maps-of-europes-ancient-tribes-kingdoms-and-y-dna/

Pax Augusta
05-07-18, 23:06
That’s great.

Now, about those links I pmed you earlier.
Clarification: I was talking about the map of 117 AD, and Not the map of 7000 bc.
Notice Y T located in Lazio, between Toscana and Campania, or in and around Roma. :)

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Europe-c-117-AD-2k-jpg.jpg
..... The third map shows Europe around 117 AD, which saw the Roman Empire reach its greatest territorial extent.......

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/maps-of-europes-ancient-tribes-kingdoms-and-y-dna/

This is map is amateur stuff completely unsourced and unreliable.

Pax Augusta
05-07-18, 23:10
not my call............I do not believe it............I only noted what scholars state
.
I believe the umbrians came via north of the alps as I stated years ago
.
why do you believe they are pelasgians .

Of course I don't believe they are Pelasgians. Pelasgian is a broad term of little scientific value.

Salento
06-07-18, 00:44
This is map is amateur stuff completely unsourced and unreliable.

Thanks for the Input, Pax.
It’s out there.
(Comunque sia, la mappa mostra una presenza localizzata, ma massiccia dell’aplogruppo Y T nella zona della Capitale.) :)

Huracan
08-07-18, 16:25
Another T-Z19945

surname Russo from Campobasso province Molise region

molise formed from ancient Samnites peoples
Samnites came via Umbrians
Umbrians via Terramare culture in Romangna
Terramare culture as scholars discuss caome via Pelasgians

The only pelasgian origin I know of, is from Homer, who states they where allies of the Trojans and came from Gallipoli peninsula ancient Thrace

Based on their placement in the group on FTDNA, I think this Russo (#N35265) might be CTS1848 because he is placed under the Bernot's and myself as well his STRs being closest to ours. Hard to know for sure until they update his since the Z19945 group has similar STRs regardless.

Also interesting to point out that when Ysearch was still functional, this Russo was always one of my closest matches and now it makes sense since he is very close to me if not having the same terminal SNP.

Joey37
08-07-18, 17:55
My group of M-458 is right by Vandals...I'm B-Western Subclade...Look out, Rome, my cousins are coming...410

Salento
08-07-18, 21:46
My group of M-458 is right by Vandals...I'm B-Western Subclade...Look out, Rome, my cousins are coming...410

This thread is about Y T, and not about others.
If you didn’t Get Lost yet, Go Ahead and do it, and take your Cousins with you.

Salento
09-07-18, 04:48
Another T1a2-z19945 match in ftdna
John Brooks .......check link for the john with 3g in his name
https://www.tributaries.info/ui49.htm#a2
his father John 1g ..........is from Windsor, Connecticut.......the same place as the family named Drake from Windsor, Connecticut. They where also haplogroup T

Walking around and by pure coincidence a noticed the name Hervey Brooks on a historical Building from Connecticut, but now Transported/Relocated in Massachusetts at Old Sturbridge Village, New England’s largest outdoor living history museum. (Cool Stuff)
I don’t know if he is related to John Brooks, but by Connecticut being a small State, it’s possible, especially minus-plus-18th century people.

https://www.osv.org/content/uploads/2018/03/Kiln-640x480.jpg

https://www.osv.org/building/pottery-shop-kiln/

Sile
09-07-18, 07:40
Based on their placement in the group on FTDNA, I think this Russo (#N35265) might be CTS1848 because he is placed under the Bernot's and myself as well his STRs being closest to ours. Hard to know for sure until they update his since the Z19945 group has similar STRs regardless.
Also interesting to point out that when Ysearch was still functional, this Russo was always one of my closest matches and now it makes sense since he is very close to me if not having the same terminal SNP.
He is not actually a Russo ...he is just part of the Russo project...his name might not be Russo
.
below are other
https://s20.postimg.cc/aiyfmrm25/T_italia.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/kg9gfttnt/)
Benedetto married a german and moved from north to south ...........he is 1 step from myself.
143092 is part of the Prosser family Project ...........part of the Italian project
.
Prossers with this name origin may be found in Germany, especially southern Germany and Bavaria, and other countries historically under German influence, such as Austria, Denmark, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and northern Italy.
In summation, the etymology of the 'Middle European surname' Prosser is as follows:
Proserpere (to emerge) F Proserpina / Proserpine F Proßer F Prosser
Latin verb (as in “growing grain”) F Roman Agricultural goddess F German form F Mid European form.

Sile
10-07-18, 08:02
I have another Yfull match with a Turk from Antalya who was part of a test in 2009
Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOGROUP T-M70 AND K*-M9(xNotSubtyped) IN TURK POPULATIONS AND ALTAI ORIGINATED POPULATIONS
.
T-M70 Y-SNP haplogroups in the Antalya population in Turkish Republic......ID# 153
Turkiye
Antalya
Turk
Oguz Turkmen
10/75
13.3%
Turan/Altai
.
I believe that people from Altai are central asian peoples
.
.................................................. .
.
in regards to 143092 , surname Prosser , they are in majority from towns of Rovereto, Noriglio and Volano,.........there are 2 main lines Prosser line and De Probizer line, my guess is the Probizer was the original name and is now basically extinct.
.
The only T-M70 I found was from Mansueto Prosser, father was Pietro and mother Teresa Maffei at Volano......there ancestor was Guido De Probizer b. 1849
Does not match myself

Sile
12-07-18, 20:48
Recent T project groupings for T-Z19945 have
.
N145191 surname Caquelin ancestors from Wildersach Alsace france
.
and
.
Alfred Curtiss kit# 116079 ..................part of the Frush and Froschauer families
https://s20.postimg.cc/bpynfyxrx/z19945_german.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
the kits beginning with 9 are frush and Froschauer
.
.
It will seem to me the Z19945 will be split soon as it looks like a centre for other branches
.
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=ycolorized

Sile
18-07-18, 20:20
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0 Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0 Timothy Brennan
0 Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0 Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0 Mr. Jack Jones
0 Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0 Richard A. Crump
0 Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0 Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1 Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1 Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1 Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1 Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1 Terry Brooks
1 Douglas C. Bowen
1 Francisco Bernot
1 Eduardo Bernot
1 K Fundora
1 Inoncencio Higuera
1 Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1 Roy Curtis Parker
1 Daniel Alexander Rossi

Salento
18-07-18, 22:00
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0Timothy Brennan
0Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0Mr. Jack Jones
0Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0Richard A. Crump
0Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1Terry Brooks
1Douglas C. Bowen
1Francisco Bernot
1Eduardo Bernot
1K Fundora
1Inoncencio Higuera
1Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1Roy Curtis Parker
1Daniel Alexander Rossi

There are some on your list that are CTS1848, and others that are not in your list, that are confirmed Z19945, but still showing CTS8862 on FTDNA.

Sile
19-07-18, 07:19
There are some on your list that are CTS1848, and others that are not in your list, that are confirmed Z19945, but still showing CTS8862 on FTDNA.
all with a distance of 1 seem to be CTS1848 .............they still have Z19945
.
can you link your zero and 1 distance matches you have ?

Sile
19-07-18, 07:23
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0 Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0 Timothy Brennan
0 Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0 Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0 Mr. Jack Jones
0 Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0 Richard A. Crump
0 Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0 Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1 Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1 Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1 Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1 Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1 Terry Brooks
1 Douglas C. Bowen
1 Francisco Bernot
1 Eduardo Bernot
1 K Fundora
1 Inoncencio Higuera
1 Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1 Roy Curtis Parker
1 Daniel Alexander Rossi
There seem to be 2 x Reddick with T-M70 ........kit#51824 and kit# 58636
http://saterfiel.homestead.com/Johann_Peter_Arndt.html
this line from Ronneburg Hesse Germany are the ancestors of
PeterArrant who married Molly Reddick , their son was
Reddick Knox Arrant who is T-M70 (58636)
..........
Molly Reddick brother is Kit# 51824 who is also T-M70 from Darnstadt Hesse Germany

Salento
19-07-18, 14:40
all with a distance of 1 seem to be CTS1848 .............they still have Z19945
.
can you link your zero and 1 distance matches you have ?

I have limited access to my results:
...... You will only see matches for the levels you have tested. .....

CTS8862 (Positive).
L25, PAGES00113, Y17493, and CTS1848 (All Negatives) were tested with ftdna.
I Tested for Z19945 (Positive), and Retested again for CTS1848 (still Negative) with YSEQ.

12 Markers Matches
They are all M70, besides the Italian with CTS8862
http://i.imgur.com/cEWBGzi.jpg
They are too distant from me, and not even one of them match Your List of matches, so I don’t see the need to add their names.


25 Markers (Just Me)
http://i.imgur.com/grkdzdb.jpg

37 Markers (Just me)
http://i.imgur.com/ZQqyvRX.jpg

From the T Project Z19945 / CTS1848 (Italians, Belgians, and the Brits) you already know who they are.
http://i.imgur.com/3DpwOp4.jpg

Sile
19-07-18, 19:18
I have limited access to my results:
...... You will only see matches for the levels you have tested. .....
CTS8862 (Positive).
L25, PAGES00113, Y17493, and CTS1848 (All Negatives) were tested with ftdna.
I Tested for Z19945 (Positive), and Retested again for CTS1848 (still Negative) with YSEQ.
12 Markers Matches
They are all M70, besides the Italian with CTS8862
http://i.imgur.com/cEWBGzi.jpg
They are too distant from me, and not even one of them match Your List of matches, so I don’t see the need to add their names.
25 Markers (Just Me)
http://i.imgur.com/grkdzdb.jpg
37 Markers (Just me)
http://i.imgur.com/ZQqyvRX.jpg
From the T Project Z19945 / CTS1848 (Italians, Belgians, and the Brits) you already know who they are.
http://i.imgur.com/3DpwOp4.jpg
thanks
The bottom map which has the marker in Cornwall England is Curtiss part of the Fuser family I linked above...post # 444

Sile
19-07-18, 19:22
my map
https://s20.postimg.cc/gimowvafh/my_12_mark.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/9s67nfn9l/)

the red marker near you is from Torretto..........he is a northern italian who married a German ...........I need to recheck but I think he is a cimbri
.
The orange marker near Rome is a mr. Viselli ....1 step distance from me and yet to be confirmed as Z19945

Rethel
22-07-18, 12:01
Some news from ancient times?

Sile
23-07-18, 20:15
Some news from ancient times?

not the title

Leo7
01-08-18, 20:44
Hello...I did DNA test with 23andme... My y-haplogroup is T-CTS8862. My relatives and anchestor until I know are from north tuscany (Italy)

Salento
01-08-18, 21:17
Hello...I did DNA test with 23andme... My y-haplogroup is T-CTS8862. My relatives and anchestor until I know are from north tuscany (Italy)

I’m Italian from Puglia, and I’m also T-CTS8862 at 23andme, but after testing with YSEQ, my haplogroup as of now is one step below: T-Z19945.
Chances are that your final haplogroup is 1 step or 2 lower than CTS8862.
There are other Italians too. :)

Sile
01-08-18, 21:23
Hello...I did DNA test with 23andme... My y-haplogroup is T-CTS8862. My relatives and anchestor until I know are from north tuscany (Italy)
Confirmed another T-CTS8862 tuscan
Leonardo Di Vita from Fermi Toscana
tested on 23andme v5
.
try to contact him on 23andme site

Salento
01-08-18, 21:28
Confirmed another T-CTS8862 tuscan
Leonardo Di Vita from Fermi Toscana
tested on 23andme v5

Do you think that Leo7 could also be Z19945 or CTS1848?

Sile
01-08-18, 21:37
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0 Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0 Timothy Brennan
0 Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0 Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0 Mr. Jack Jones
0 Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0 Richard A. Crump
0 Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0 Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1 Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1 Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1 Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1 Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1 Terry Brooks
1 Douglas C. Bowen
1 Francisco Bernot
1 Eduardo Bernot
1 K Fundora
1 Inoncencio Higuera
1 Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1 Roy Curtis Parker
1 Daniel Alexander Rossi
Jack Jones above ...............original surname Eberhart from Baden Germany
.
Joseph mac Hill .............1500 origin was surname Seetz or Seytz or Seitz ....from southern Bavaria

Sile
01-08-18, 21:45
Do you think that Leo7 could also be Z19945 or CTS1848?

maybe

I think he should contact Leonardo in 23andme first

Leo7
02-08-18, 18:49
If you can help me to know more about my specific haplogroup, I would be grateful

Salento
03-08-18, 06:34
If you can help me to know more about my specific haplogroup, I would be grateful
Look for big red oval CTS8489 (it’s another name for CTS8862) at the bottom left of the tree, is in the Europe Middle Bronze Age Branch, 3700 ybp old.
Notice the mutations, you could be positive for some of them.
Y T Phylogenetic Tree - Made by Alpenjager, Thanks :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png)

You need to get a Y chromosome deep test if you want to Know more.

https://www.yfull.com
https://www.yseq.net
https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna

You already know that you are CTS8862, if available test below that.

More info on T:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33409-Updated-page-and-tree-on-Y-haplogroup-T

Leo7
03-08-18, 18:39
Thank you very much for the information. I had already seen Phylogenetic three but I did not know 3 links👍😀

Sile
03-08-18, 21:29
my map
https://s20.postimg.cc/gimowvafh/my_12_mark.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/9s67nfn9l/)
the red marker near you is from Torretto..........he is a northern italian who married a German ...........I need to recheck but I think he is a cimbri
.
The orange marker near Rome is a mr. Viselli ....1 step distance from me and yet to be confirmed as Z19945
from another site..my matches
https://s20.postimg.cc/p7crsblil/my_matches_mar18.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/5cqq676ax/)

Huracan
06-08-18, 02:12
Look for big red oval CTS8489 (it’s another name for CTS8862) at the bottom left of the tree, is in the Europe Middle Bronze Age Branch, 3700 ybp old.
Notice the mutations, you could be positive for some of them.
Y T Phylogenetic Tree - Made by Alpenjager, Thanks :)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png)

You need to get a Y chromosome deep test if you want to Know more.

https://www.yfull.com
https://www.yseq.net
https://www.familytreedna.com/products/y-dna

You already know that you are CTS8862, if available test below that.

More info on T:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/33409-Updated-page-and-tree-on-Y-haplogroup-T

@Sile, do you know what Alpenjager meant by marking CTS1848 as Andalusi refugees? I am intrigued as to how they came to mark it as such and what it means for our clades. Thanks.

Sile
06-08-18, 07:18
@Sile, do you know what Alpenjager meant by marking CTS1848 as Andalusi refugees? I am intrigued as to how they came to mark it as such and what it means for our clades. Thanks.
no idea
.
while your line went to CTS1848 .........mine did not and went in the NW line as that is the only way to go.
.
I imagine that Z19945 will end up being a junction where a few lines will split off ...............I also think that Z19945 was created ( its origin) between Alsace and Bavaria .......there are too many that come from there

Caucasus
07-08-18, 02:13
Sile, where does CTS6507 fit in on the T-M184 tree?

Sile
07-08-18, 07:15
Sile, where does CTS6507 fit in on the T-M184 tree?
under T1a1-P77
info
.
.
T-P77*
T-Y4964 FGC3996/Y4964 * Z711/FGC3970 * Y4982/FGC3994formed 4900 ybp, TMRCA 4500 ybpinfo
T-Y4964*
T-Y29990 * Y29994 * Y29992+7 SNPsformed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 3000 ybpinfo
id:YF08255GRC
id:YF02393ARE
T-Y4990 FGC4009/Y4956/A22205 * CTS4647 * FGC4005+2 SNPsformed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 4400 ybpinfo
T-Y4990*
id:YF02424IRQ
T-CTS6507 formed 4400 ybp, TMRCA 4400 ybpinfo
id:ERS256914ITA [IT-CA]

Caucasus
07-08-18, 19:10
Thanks a lot, Sile. You guys have been discovering amazing connections and networks bewteen people who never ever thought of having these common genetic bonds. I need to educate myself further on technical terms.
It would be amazing to create some dictionary or explanation on this tree so the laymen would be able to better understand these interesting links more easily.

Sile
07-08-18, 19:43
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0 Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0 Timothy Brennan
0 Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0 Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0 Mr. Jack Jones
0 Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0 Richard A. Crump
0 Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0 Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1 Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1 Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1 Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1 Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1 Terry Brooks
1 Douglas C. Bowen
1 Francisco Bernot
1 Eduardo Bernot
1 K Fundora
1 Inoncencio Higuera
1 Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1 Roy Curtis Parker
1 Daniel Alexander Rossi

at Kevin

I see Richard wrote to us and gave us his gedmatch ID ................he has zero connection with myself after I tested us through Gedmatch
since he is one distance from me , I assume then this 1 distance must be over 1500 years ago , basically the commencement of SNP CTS1848 ( which i am negative ) .
We then, are in the same boat ................
As for yourself with Richard, you must match as you both are positive CTS1848 .........would I assume this to be true?

Huracan
11-08-18, 17:20
at Kevin

I see Richard wrote to us and gave us his gedmatch ID ................he has zero connection with myself after I tested us through Gedmatch
since he is one distance from me , I assume then this 1 distance must be over 1500 years ago , basically the commencement of SNP CTS1848 ( which i am negative ) .
We then, are in the same boat ................
As for yourself with Richard, you must match as you both are positive CTS1848 .........would I assume this to be true?

@Sile please use my username on this forum and yes I saw he emailed us, glad he reached out. I no longer have Gedmatch so I won't be able to find out how closely we are related in that sense. And yes, Richard is perhaps the closest to me in the clade thus far besides the Bernot family.

Sile
11-08-18, 20:18
@Sile please use my username on this forum and yes I saw he emailed us, glad he reached out. I no longer have Gedmatch so I won't be able to find out how closely we are related in that sense. And yes, Richard is perhaps the closest to me in the clade thus far besides the Bernot family.

np

In my previous post , where I showed my zero and 1 distance matches, the trend I get is that my zero distance matches have negative CTS1848, and the one with 1 distance matches seem to have positive CTS1848...............is that the case for yourself to myself?

Huracan
12-08-18, 06:27
np

In my previous post , where I showed my zero and 1 distance matches, the trend I get is that my zero distance matches have negative CTS1848, and the one with 1 distance matches seem to have positive CTS1848...............is that the case for yourself to myself?

For us that is true as you are 1 GD from me at 12 markers. As for the rest of my matches at this level, here is my list (and to keep your same color coding system: red are confirmed Z19945+ in the T project group while green are grouped with Z19945+ but not yet confirmed)

0 R. G. Perry
1 D. Mattos
1 E. H. Curtiss
1 J. Jones
1 V. Pretotto

Sile
12-08-18, 10:01
For us that is true as you are 1 GD from me at 12 markers. As for the rest of my matches at this level, here is my list (and to keep your same color coding system: red are confirmed Z19945+ in the T project group while green are grouped with Z19945+ but not yet confirmed)
0 R. G. Perry
1 D. Mattos
1 E. H. Curtiss
1 J. Jones
1 V. Pretotto
Thanks Huracan
here is the Frush family which Curtiss belongs to...looks like positive for CTS1848
https://s20.postimg.cc/bpynfyxrx/z19945_german.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=ycolorized
.
if you check the ftdna project above...you will see curtiss...plus all the T-M70 from the Frush line ......all confirmed Z19945 via the yFull team

.
................................

I do not remember................. if Jack Jones belongs to the Drakes of Plymouth ( not francis drake line ) or from ????? from Mengelsdorf old east Germany

Sile
17-08-18, 07:25
my current matches .........with zero or 1 distance.....from ftdna
red is noted as SNP Z19945 group in Ftdna T project
blue confirmed Z19945 but not in T project
.
0 Carmine Anthony DiChiara
0 Timothy Brennan
0 Mr. Maury Lamar Jones II
0 Mr. Joseph "Mac" Hill
0 William Bradshaw Atherholt
0 Mr. Jack Jones
0 Mr. Damjan Mozetic .................original name Mosetti from Trentino Italy
0 Richard A. Crump
0 Gary Reddick ........................original name Radich from Hesse Germany
0 Michael William Benedetto
0 Leonard Schales
1 Donald Mattos ...............................original name Costa
1 Petar Nikolov Petrov
1 Daniel Ávila Caldeira
1 Thomas Riley ....................................original name Wolfe
1 Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
1 Terry Brooks
1 Douglas C. Bowen
1 Francisco Bernot
1 Eduardo Bernot
1 K Fundora
1 Inoncencio Higuera
1 Richard George Perry ...................original name Pereira
1 Roy Curtis Parker
1 Daniel Alexander Rossi
Terry Brooks ancestors are Jonannes Brucke from Bamberg Germany
Elisabeth Brücke, 1587 - 1622
Elisabeth Brücke was born in 1587, in Elsoff Wittgenstein, to Johannes Rück.
Johannes was born in 1557, in Elsoff Wittgenstein.
Elisabeth married Johannes Brücke on February 16 1612, at age 25 in Elsoff Berleburg Wittgenstein.
Johannes was born in 1582.
They had one daughter: Eulalia Kloos (born Brücke).
Elisabeth passed away on December 24 1622, at age 35 in Elsoff Wittgenstein.
.
John Brucke 1610 -1679
father of
john brooke 1636 -1695
father of
Benjamin Brooks 1685-1745

Sile
17-08-18, 21:23
William ( bradshaw ) Atherholt ..ancestral line.'
.
Christian Atherholt 1724-1812 Hanover Germany
father of
Christian Atherholt 1756 - 1838 died in USA
father of
John Atherholt 1817 -1883 USA
etc

Sile
19-08-18, 08:53
Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
.
Below is there map for my line
.
other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
.
https://s20.postimg.cc/4lvo0bftp/pylo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/gaznoa6s9/)
.
These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators

Salento
23-08-18, 04:28
Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
.
Below is there map for my line
.
other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
.
https://s20.postimg.cc/4lvo0bftp/pylo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/gaznoa6s9/)
.
These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators

I noticed T CTS54 around Rome.
Z19945 is younger than CTS54.
... CTS54 > CTS8489 (CTS8862) > Z19945 > CTS1848
Just wondering if that CTS54 is final, or not.

ps I can’t figure out your Avatar, are you drowning upside-down? LOL
Wait, I see it now: Message in a Bottle. :)

Sile
23-08-18, 19:13
I noticed T CTS54 around Rome.
Z19945 is younger than CTS54.
... CTS54 > CTS8489 (CTS8862) > Z19945 > CTS1848
Just wondering if that CTS54 is final, or not.

ps I can’t figure out your Avatar, are you drowning upside-down? LOL
Wait, I see it now: Message in a Bottle. :)

I spoke to the administrators and they state the the points are final, but the migrational route is not......CTS8489 is near Geneva on the map.
As I state , unsure how accurate it is , but as usual it would get better as they place more Yfull and Bigy samples into it.
I thought I better change my avatar since I ran it for over 2 years...........I did not know it is an "issue" for some

Huracan
25-08-18, 01:17
Unsure what to make of phylogeographer
in regard to T haplogroup .............looks like they state the beginning was Mardin East Turkey
and my SNP of Z19945 created in Porrentruy Switzerland
.
Below is there map for my line
.
other map showed CTS1848 origins are East of Paris
.
https://s20.postimg.cc/4lvo0bftp/pylo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/image/gaznoa6s9/)
.
These people have access to all genetic services and data can only be entered by administrators

This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

Salento
25-08-18, 06:05
This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

L446 is more than 7000 years old, CTS11984/CTS54 almost 4.000, CTS8862 is about 3.100 years old.
Countless events, movements, tribal splits with consequential migrations, .... I could go on and on.
As an example, 400 years after was formed, the main tribe of CTS8862 could have split in 2-3 or 4 tribes, each one of them moving at different, or opposte directions. Each of the tribes eventually joined other populations.
Same examples applies to all clades.
Who Knows for sure.

Remund
30-09-18, 14:59
I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help

Salento
30-09-18, 17:32
I recently had my Uncle {on my mothers side} tested on 23andMe, to see what my deceased Grandfathers YDNA was. We are all 100% European, almost all Northern European. He was born in London England in 1901. So I was expecting a R1B, R1A, or a I1 12. But no.... we get a T-CTS6507 in Britain- less then 1%.!
Who else has this with a family tree in England, where can I start and try and get further details? further how or if does this tie into Thomas Jeffersons family tree or is this a different line. Looking for some help

Thomas Jefferson: T1a1a1b1a1a1 PF7444
Your Uncle: T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a CTS6507
Not a family tree connection with Jefferson, but a much older relation.

Your Uncle could be positive for more subclades.
By Alpenjager:
... Thomas Jefferson belongs to T1a1a1b1a1a1-PF7444. Is a 5300ybp large and widely distributed West Eurasia T subclade also found well distributed in Great Britain but sadly still understudied in comparison to other T branches..

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29626-Questions-on-my-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-T/page17?p=541447&viewfull=1#post541447

Look for CTS6507 for matches:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2?iframe=yresults

Sile
02-10-18, 07:49
Corson line of T1a2-L446

Samuel Corson 1686 - 1764 born NY USA
wife Mary Potts
.
f. Corneilius 1660 - 1719 born USA
wife Hannah Hobbs
.
f. Jan Courson born south Netherlands
wife Truque Muche
.
f. Hendrick Courson born 1620 Netherlands
.
f. Jan Corssen born 1596 Netherlands
.
f. Peter Corssen born 1558 netherlands
wife Annetje Gerrits
.
.
Seem like another T-L446 that is north of the Alps

Sile
02-10-18, 19:23
This is very interesting! I've never heard of this feature before and wonder how accurate it is. The migration pattern they propose is different than the ones I was hypothesizing for our clades all the way back to L446 and especially CTS11984... I don't think CTS11984/CTS54 originated in Italy because there is an Armenian in the T project that is CTS11984+. I think the Swiss Alp placement of CTS8489/CTS8862 is still consistent with the Ashkenazi Jewish CTS8862+ group in the T project since this population is believed to descend from Jews living along the Rhine and in the general surrounding region. Interesting nonetheless.

The Placement of Z19945 is in the Jura caves/Jura mountains
I ( and others) recently gave the person the ancient T samples ......shortly he will use these to reset the paths of T
we will see how accurate this is
I think that L446 did not originate in the eastern alps as some have noted, but further north, more likely the north european plain..............we seem to find far too many british families appear with T1a2 SNPs and also noted after the anglo-saxon invasion of England

Sile
11-11-18, 18:10
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.
https://i.postimg.cc/kG35kx4Z/global25.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vghMnx5L)

Salento
12-11-18, 03:43
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.
https://i.postimg.cc/kG35kx4Z/global25.jpg


Northern Italy.
Compare yourself with the T1a2 bbk # CL23:

https://i.postimg.cc/66VhbVVH/BB_north_ITA.jpg

Nice! :)

Sile
13-11-18, 20:07
I was given this from my Global25 numbers
https://i.postimg.cc/fb8wcbr3/poi-global25.jpg (https://postimg.cc/NyrqYQYY)

and my cousin from Cles Trentino got same numbers except lower saxony ( 2 % ) instead of the English I got

Huracan
16-11-18, 01:10
my Global25 results
.
Barcin_N,56.6
Yamnaya_Samara,37.2
WHG,6
Yoruba,0.2
.
I am VG spot on map below......by myself
.
https://i.postimg.cc/kG35kx4Z/global25.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vghMnx5L)

How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?

Sile
16-11-18, 04:00
How did you calculate this for yourself, @Sile?
no, through eurogenes and then another source
they basically said I am in "the ancient box " of the alps, not north italian or central italian and not tyrolese, not adriatic coast........basically seems to be around salzburg to heading to innsbruck.....I will link another map if I can relog back in , in the next 15 minutes
.
my other plot...........i am VG
https://i.postimg.cc/4d68bWT4/other-g25.jpg (https://postimg.cc/JDhcRcnS)
the other North -east italians are also isolated......it seems the Bergamo ( north-italian ) is different

Sile
16-11-18, 20:23
From the same eurogenes calculator as above .....compared to ancient samples
.
"distance%=2.0102"
.
GERMANI, 34.8
ITALI, 33.6
GRAECI, 24.8
ILLYRII, 2.4
SYRIA, 2.4
VENEDI, 2
.
Hiperboreans - people from far north for the Greeks.
.
Venedi for this test - Balto-Slavic people living in NE Europe
...................................

after more ancient uploaded

my results have slightly changed to

"distance%=2.0103"


GERMANI,34.4
ITALI,33.6
GRAECI,23
ILLYRII,3.6
SYRIA,3
NEURI SLAVI,2.4

Sile
03-02-19, 18:53
Another T1a2 that matches myself

William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.
Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
.
.
He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
he was part of
3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
.
Brief History
.
The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
.
.
He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina

Salento
03-02-19, 19:39
​maybe related?

“Hunting Shirt” (Henry Sizemore)
1791 North Carolina - 1875 Clay, Kentucky

http://photos.geni.com/p9/5952/4623/53444837924aa5b5/henry_hunting_shirt_sizemore_original.jpg

https://www.geni.com/people/Henry-Hunting-Shirt-Sizemore/6000000011759534491

Sile
03-02-19, 21:10
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore

Sile
03-02-19, 21:30
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sizemore/1989/
Origin of the surname:
SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
.
another theory
The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
.
another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=o-0UCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA152&lpg=PA152&dq=sizemore+sigmar&source=bl&ots=RJbdGTfK2N&sig=ACfU3U2O0a-9LW7Dpzmwfwg_BHk2oV6FxA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-i-DHs6DgAhXQXn0KHUq4DXwQ6AEwCXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sizemore%20sigmar&f=false
.
.
I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q

Huracan
04-02-19, 04:56
Another T1a2 that matches myself

William Henry Sizemore, 1844 - 1922
William Henry Sizemore was born on June 6 1844, in Christian, Kentucky, USA, to Henry William Sizemore and Elizabeth Messamore (born Parker).
Henry was born in 1809, in Virginia, USA.
Elizabeth was born in 1814, in North Carolina, USA.
Oldest man I found from this line was 1553 in Middlesex England
.
.
He served in the Confederate States CSA during the civil war ..............but must of left Kentucky for South Carolina as Kentucky stayed in the Union even though it was a slave state
he was part of
3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery (Palmetto Battalion)
.
Brief History
.
The 3rd Battalion, South Carolina Light Artillery was also known the Palmetto Battalion, Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery). It was organized in November/December of 1861. Its members were from the counties of Allendale, Richland, Charleston, Georgetown, and Kershaw. The battalion started with with three companies and seven others were added at various times, the last about June 21, 1863. known as the Palmetto Battalion Light Artillery, and also White's Battalion South Carolina Light Artillery. For some time the unit served in the Department of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida, but the companies were frequently detached to serve in other battalions. The 3rd Battalion Light Artillery was dissolved by the end of 1864.[1][2]
.
.
He matches my other T1a2 USA matches
David A Hill 1850, ........Georgia
Nathaniel Hill 1825, .......Virginia
William A hill 1782 ...North Carolina
and John M Hill 1819...South Carolina

Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+

Huracan
04-02-19, 05:04
https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/sizemore/1989/
Origin of the surname:
SIZEMORE (Eng.) Descendant of Sigmar (victory, great) dweller on the Saxon's wasteland1
When I checked the LDS IGI for England (Jan/Feb 1988) many years ago, I found numerous pages of records. There were 44 spelling variants of SIZEMORE. The earliest record was dated 1556 and largest concentration of the surname was in the county of Gloucester.2
.
another theory
The Sizemores have been in America since at least the 17th century. Some branches spell it Sisemore. The name is cognate with Cismor and other Portuguese surnames.
is it Saxon, Suebi ancient invasion of iberia?
.
another ...hungarian surname Zizmer
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=o-0UCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA152&lpg=PA152&dq=sizemore+sigmar&source=bl&ots=RJbdGTfK2N&sig=ACfU3U2O0a-9LW7Dpzmwfwg_BHk2oV6FxA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-i-DHs6DgAhXQXn0KHUq4DXwQ6AEwCXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=sizemore%20sigmar&f=false
.
.
I only found that the sizemore surname are ydna T and Ydna Q

A good portion are I-M253 and R-M269 as well https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SIZEMORE_DNA?iframe=yresults

Sile
04-02-19, 17:28
Interesting update! I checked the FTDNA T group and saw that this Sizemore individual is only CTS11984+
Henry william sizemore is the father of
William Henry sizemore
.
Henry william sizemore is the Yfull and Ftdna person ..............yfull matched it first , then I received the match with ftdna
.
Initally, I was given the son as a match in Ftdna ................maybe the owner of the account updated his account ancestral trail

Sile
04-02-19, 17:31
A good portion are I-M253 and R-M269 as well https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SIZEMORE_DNA?iframe=yresults

Two ftdna account kit numbers of the same person ...........the second one is a BigY test because it was presented to Yfull to analyse

Sile
05-02-19, 05:44
T-CTS54
.
T-CTS54*
id:YF06979USA [US-VA] ................<.Henry William Sizemore
id:NA20758ITA
.
T-CTS8489
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]
.
T-CTS8489*
T-Y17493
id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]
.
T-Z19945
T-Z19945*
id:YF07608ITA [IT-TV]