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Sile
06-02-19, 05:17
It seems this person is not a sizemore as the sizemore family are mostly hap. Q
Ftdna test for this person in Y111 found 109 STR matches with the Powell T1a2 family, the assumptions is that the sizemore T1a2 in yfull was adopted from a Powell family in 1829

............................
.
I traced this line to Thomas Powell 1478-1525 in Brecon Wales.
His father had a welsh surname....William Pwyll 1453 who married Catherine John.
There is a french person ( from Lorraine ) as well as many others who have family trees with this person...
.
.
In ftdna all the Powell family and the one sizemore are in their own group
it is a dead group as it is negative for CTS8862 ......so until they find more non-family members, this group will remain as is

Sile
13-02-19, 06:17
Another T1a2 match ( distant )

.
John McKee 1801 North carolina married, Ann Baahne
his father was
Jack Mckee born Virginia
his father
Robert Brown McKee 1692 - 1774 from Drumbo Ireland
died 11/6/1774 Virginia,

hi father
Alexander Williams MacKey 1668 born Strathnaver Scotland
died 1740 Ireland
married Miriam Brown

Sile
19-02-19, 06:25
another

T1a2-CTS8862
from shkoder , between albania and montenegro ( for 300 years ) ..........now lives in Kosovo

I think he is the recent kosovo noted person

Salento
20-02-19, 03:28
a yfull find for a match for me
.
YF06979 .......Henry Sizemore b. 1810 and d.1877
must be the father of Henry William Sizemore

Could you please clarify what kind of “match” you are referring to?

At your Leisure, No pressure :smile:

Technically: Henry with id:YF06979 is haplo cts54, so all clades below that are a match by default.

- or, Does it means that Henry is presumed to be at least Z19945?

- If not, what’s the meaning of a “Match” detached by 2-3 steps away from the Final clade?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/

Sile
20-02-19, 18:24
Could you please clarify what kind of “match” you are referring to?

At your Leisure, No pressure :smile:

Technically: Henry with id:YF06979 is haplo cts54, so all clades below that are a match by default.

- or, Does it means that Henry is presumed to be at least Z19945?

- If not, what’s the meaning of a “Match” detached by 2-3 steps away from the Final clade?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS54*/

he is a match to me in yfull.......but his CTS54 has a * behind it in yfull, indicating a dead line or unfinished line..........as I said , he seems to be not a sizemore , but a powell
search net for powell sizemore DNA ........
I do report if they match or do not match me in being close to our hapo line

Caucasus
22-02-19, 00:00
Hey guys, do you have any idea why someone would get the result of belonging to T haplogroup without any subclade info from 23andme?

Salento
22-02-19, 04:05
Hey guys, do you have any idea why someone would get the result of belonging to T haplogroup without any subclade info from 23andme?

It would be very interesting to know where he comes from.

Caucasus
25-02-19, 07:54
Salento, he has ancestors from Turkey and northwest Iran if that helps.

Salento
25-02-19, 14:24
Salento, he has ancestors from Turkey and northwest Iran if that helps.

Unless something has changed, I am only aware of one Man with a basic Y T (T-M184) still alive, and he’s from Armenia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Armenia_-_Location_Map_%282013%29_-_ARM_-_UNOCHA.svg/250px-Armenia_-_Location_Map_%282013%29_-_ARM_-_UNOCHA.svg.png

Caucasus
26-02-19, 03:52
My applologies, I made a mistake. It is his mtdna Haplogroup T that does not have a sub-clade. He has no Armenian ancestors and does not have any matches from Armenia. He is an Iranian Azeri.

Sile
09-03-19, 07:55
@salento

Has there been a change to the T tree in ftdna
I was told that T1a3 became T1a2 ...and the T1a2 merged with T1a1

someone said I am now
T1a1b1a1a1b2 - Z19945*

I am also positive CTS6071 like CL23 ( he is also T1a1 branch now )


can you check ?

Salento
09-03-19, 15:38
@salento
Has there been a change to the T tree in ftdna
I was told that T1a3 became T1a2 ...and the T1a2 merged with T1a1
someone said I am now
T1a1b1a1a1b2 - Z19945*
I am also positive CTS6071 like CL23 ( he is also T1a1 branch now )
can you check ?

We both match CL23 as positive at CTS6071.

At FT they were doing something to the Tree this morning.

At Isogg CTS8862 it is still under T1a2 (Strangely, I could swear T1a1, became T1a2 after refreshing the page, unless ...)


http://i.imgur.com/dnZbq3W.jpg



10 minutes later. Notice that L446 shifted from Gold to Green.

http://i.imgur.com/0DHePR6.jpg


Part of the Tree, see if you can figure out if they merged.

http://i.imgur.com/9G3XBre.jpg

Sile
09-03-19, 17:50
We both match CL23 as positive at CTS6071.
At FT they were doing something to the Tree this morning.
At Isogg CTS8862 it is still under T1a2 (Strangely, I could swear T1a1, became T1a2 after refreshing the page, unless ...)
http://i.imgur.com/dnZbq3W.jpg

10 minutes later. Notice that L446 shifted from Gold to Green.

http://i.imgur.com/0DHePR6.jpg

Part of the Tree, see if you can figure out if they merged.

http://i.imgur.com/9G3XBre.jpg
CL23 was also changed to T1a1 in this link of ancient T-M184 samples ............see the red one
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/map/haplogroup-t-m184-ancient-samples-adna_300741?fbclid=IwAR0rGEU3IgaKN1N73vrg5ypvTRaFQ dzeq6KtINU9gNaM4AcPxkF1rlddOFs#4/41.77/28.96
.
BTW, purple ones seem origins of marker of the ones that do not belong to T1a1, T1a2 or T1a3

Sile
09-03-19, 18:14
just check in yfull ...they have no amended the tree yet..............but have given me a new SNP branching out from Z19945
.
Haplogroup SNP
− YF07608 BY32027 / Y70078
− T-Z19945 Z19945
.
.
Have to wait and see if the BY32027 is ok......this is due to Yfull going from HG19 to HG38 system

Salento
09-03-19, 18:36
CL23 was also changed to T1a1 in this link of ancient T-M184 samples ............see the red one
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/map/haplogroup-t-m184-ancient-samples-adna_300741?fbclid=IwAR0rGEU3IgaKN1N73vrg5ypvTRaFQ dzeq6KtINU9gNaM4AcPxkF1rlddOFs#4/41.77/28.96
.
BTW, purple ones seem origins of marker of the ones that do not belong to T1a1, T1a2 or T1a3

Unless they use a different nomenclature standard. Maybe?


... Collegno 1350 yBP ( Early Medieval ) Longobard Period



CL23 ( 1310 -1380 yBP )
Phase: I
Y-DNA: T1a1b1a1-CTS6071 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/)
mtDNA: H
Strontium Sr: Non-local
Coverage: 2,952
Other IDs: COL001

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4

doi https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-01 (https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-018-06024-4) ...

Huracan
11-03-19, 04:19
I did a deep dive into this paper and its supplementary material to get a better understanding.

CL23 (T-CTS6071 aka CTS933) and SZ36 (T-PF5620) were the only two Y-DNA T individuals found at the two Lombard burial sites dated to the mid 6th century CE -- CL23 from Collegno, Italy and SZ36 from Szólád, Hungary (Pannonia). Isotope ratio analyses showed they both were not local to the areas where they were buried. They were part of a genetically-distinct group of individuals that had mostly or entirely Southern European (SE) ancestry that was different than the Northern European (NE) Lombards that shared the cemetery. Their burial practices (lack of grave goods and plots being grouped together away from the Lombards) and nutritional data suggest they were of lower social status and did not really mix with the others.

At the Szólád site, all individuals seemed to be non-local, which is consistent with the highly mobile history of the Lombards and their launching point from this area to invade Italy in 568 CE.
"In summary, the small Longobard period cemetery from Szólád is the necropolis of a small, wealthy, highly mobile and population from the middle of the sixth century. In grave construction and grave goods at least two groups can be distinguished, which suggest the integration of different traditions. The small population settled for only one generation in Pannonia at the shore of Lake Balaton and therefore appears to have been very mobile..." (Supplemental Information).
The paper suggested that these SE individuals (including SZ36) could've migrated with the Lombards from elsewhere, but did not originate from the same area (different isotope ratio patterns). Supplemental info stated that the SE people could have still been from the area around Lake Balaton, but then went on to say that they were not local and migrated to the area with the Lombards (a little confusing). This could mean that these SE peoples could have been serfs, slaves, or non-Germanic soldiers in their mixed ranks (very difficult to know at this point ... or to even guess).

The Collegno site showed greater evidence of multigenerational family burials, hinting at the settlement and dominance of the Lombards in this region. The majority of those buried here were local, even the SE peoples who were suggested to be actual residents due to their genomic closeness to modern populations in the area. Only two SE individuals were non-local, one of them being CL23 (our main interest) who was from phase I: 570/590 to 630/640 CE and had high (>70%) Tuscan and Iberian (TSI+IBS) ancestry, one of a few in the cemetery to have this background. No inferences were made regarding his origin but what we can conclude was that he was of lower status, high Southern European ancestry, and not local to the area around Collegno.

The best I could do to get a better understanding of CL23 was looking at the PCA plots comparing ancestry to reference samples provided in the Supplemental Information. This was difficult to do and I realize this can lead to misleading conclusions.


Supp Figure 23: CL23 clusters among samples of the overlap area between Switzerland and Italy while SZ36 clusters with Italian samples. Additionally, CL23 is closest to HUs2 and SZ36 HUs 3, both Bronze Age Hungarian samples.
Supp Figure 25: CL23 clustered more with Bergamo, Tuscan, and Bulgarian with some proximity to Iberian while SZ36 was strongly Tuscan with close proximity to Albanian.

Supplementary Data 4 calculated the most likely modern population assigned to each ancient sample test using PAA. CL23 was assigned Portugal (probability 0.13) and Bulgaria (0.31) while SZ36 was assigned France (0.45) or Tuscany (0.29). Just as a reinforcement to what the paper stated, the local SE people buried at Collegno (CL25, 30, 31, 38, and 121) match Italy the most and with high probability (0.66-0.97), supporting their actual local origin.

This is what I could get from it. Feel free to review the sources and get a handle on the info (it is a lot).

Sources:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06024-4.pdf
https://www.gnxp.com/WordPress/2018/02/21/the-folk-migration-during-the-age-of-migrations/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/barbarian-dna-italy-hungary-cemeteries-ancient-rome-a8532796.html

Huracan
11-03-19, 05:23
Just realized this was discussed in the other T thread as well, interesting that other genetic comparisons and analyses showed him as more like a North Italian Bell Beaker.

Salento
11-03-19, 17:22
The hierarchy in letters of the SNPs maybe is changing because NEW Z19859 is above L131.

M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—Z19859 - T..???
-——L131 - was/is T1a2???
———L1255 -was/is T1a3???



Used to be:
M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—L131 - T1a2
——L1255 T1a3

Sile
11-03-19, 18:26
Just realized this was discussed in the other T thread as well, interesting that other genetic comparisons and analyses showed him as more like a North Italian Bell Beaker.

yes, CL23 is the closest sample from the lombard paper that plots next to the North-Italian bell Beaker sample

Sile
11-03-19, 18:31
The hierarchy in letters of the SNPs maybe is changing because NEW Z19859 is above L131.

M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—Z19859 - T..???
-——L131 - was/is T1a2???
———L1255 -was/is T1a3???

from T project admin...............Z19859 sits right in the middle of DYZ19 region which is harder to sequence. In Yfull one has a mixture of C and G reads.
haplogroup T2 ( Bhutan and armenia ) and T1a3 ( oldest origin in south Kazakhstan ) are clean of the SNP , while T1a1 and T1a2 have mixed reads for this.
So, Z19859 could be equal to M70 ..........Z19859 is over 16k years ago
.
meaning that T2-PH110 and T1a3 are completly split from T1a1 and T1a2 as they do have SNP Z19859 .................maybe this connection is why it looks like they will merge T1a2 into T1a1

Salento
11-03-19, 21:06
T-CTS6071 is about 7000 ybp old, but the CL23-Man is 1310 -1380 ybp old.

Add more clades to go to T-CTS8862 that is about 3700 ybp old.

There’s a gap of about 3300 years between the 2 Clades.

Huracan
12-03-19, 02:58
T-CTS6071 is about 7000 ybp old, but the CL23-Man is 1310 -1380 ybp old.

Add more clades to go to T-CTS8862 that is about 3700 ybp old.

There’s a gap of about 3300 years between the 2 Clades.

Yes so this is significant as it actually confirms that L446 and CTS933 were present in Europe at this time and based on CL23's matching to Bell Beaker people, the clades were involved in the Neolithic spread from the Near East as well.

CTS933/CTS6071 formed 7,700 ybp (5750 BCE) | TMRCA 6,700 ybp (4750 BCE), which is within the range of expansion of Neolithic cultures into Europe. Its possible presence among the Bell Beaker means it was involved in this movement of peoples and cultural elements from Atlantic Europe eastward into the rest of Europe. Descendants of those that arrived in Italy (especially the Po Valley) would've included CL23? becoming the substrate of the "Roman" population that remained there through the Lombard invasion.

Based on online searches, not sure if this means CTS933 was involved in the Corded Ware too (which they say is the predecessor of Bell Beaker) in which case stems from the Yamna and ultimately supporting a Caucasus origin in a way (or it was picked up in SE Europe from the previous Neolithic substrate). Want to know what you all think about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europe_map.shtml

Sile
14-03-19, 07:40
my closest ancient matches in regards to samples
distance%: 0.16
.
Germany_Medieval 21.41
Balkans_ChL 10.11
LBK_N 9.87
Lisakovskiy_MLBA_Alakul 9.63
Vinca_MN 7.14
Baltic_BA 5.68
Sweden_Viking_Age 5.28
Gonur1_BA 4.45
Sintashta_MLBA 4.15
Tisza_LN 4.07
LBK_N_Austria 3.83
Anatolia_MLBA_low_res 3.71
Italy_Medieval_Collegno 3.42
Cimmerian_Moldova 3.29
Scythian_Moldova 3.06
Tepe_Hissar_ChL 0.91
................................
further breakdown using central european only samples from above
Here is a model that seemed OK with Lombards, Medieval Germans, and Scythians:
distance%: 0.65
.
Scythian_Hungary_DA198 36.65
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL63 21.28
Germany_Medieval_STR_486 14.08
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL36 13.64
Scythian_Moldova_scy197 8.53
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL23 3.33
Scythian_Moldova_scy300 2.49

Huracan
15-03-19, 02:34
my closest ancient matches in regards to samples
distance%: 0.16
.
Germany_Medieval 21.41
Balkans_ChL 10.11
LBK_N 9.87
Lisakovskiy_MLBA_Alakul 9.63
Vinca_MN 7.14
Baltic_BA 5.68
Sweden_Viking_Age 5.28
Gonur1_BA 4.45
Sintashta_MLBA 4.15
Tisza_LN 4.07
LBK_N_Austria 3.83
Anatolia_MLBA_low_res 3.71
Italy_Medieval_Collegno 3.42
Cimmerian_Moldova 3.29
Scythian_Moldova 3.06
Tepe_Hissar_ChL 0.91
................................
further breakdown using central european only samples from above
Here is a model that seemed OK with Lombards, Medieval Germans, and Scythians:
distance%: 0.65
.
Scythian_Hungary_DA198 36.65
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL63 21.28
Germany_Medieval_STR_486 14.08
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL36 13.64
Scythian_Moldova_scy197 8.53
Italy_Medieval_Collegno_CL23 3.33
Scythian_Moldova_scy300 2.49

How did you do this? What calculator or site did you use?

Sile
15-03-19, 19:19
How did you do this? What calculator or site did you use?

Its a 2 step process ...........I have to recheck who it was and what I paid...........then the one above was done for free ...............i have to get back to you

Salento
16-03-19, 18:20
@Sile nMonte3 EU 13...

The Bottom 2, old Illyrian - Messapic?
any thoughts?


http://i.imgur.com/LE1U7Do.jpg

Sile
16-03-19, 18:49
@Sile nMonte3 EU 13...

The Bottom 2, old Illyrian - Messapic?
any thoughts?


http://i.imgur.com/LE1U7Do.jpg

Is RO romanian ?

I already submitted a paper which states Messapic was an east balkan language ............we need to find out who the Iapgians are as Measspic are Iapgian people of Italy

Salento
16-03-19, 18:52
Yes it is. .....
The Iapygians lived in Puglia, and were divided in three populations: the Daunians, Peucetians and Messapians.

Sile
16-03-19, 18:53
The hierarchy in letters of the SNPs maybe is changing because NEW Z19859 is above L131.

M70 - T1a
—L162 - T1a1
-—Z19859 - T..???
-——L131 - was/is T1a2???
———L1255 -was/is T1a3???

I was given
.
T - M184
T1 - L206
T1a - M70
T1a1 - Z19859
T1a1b - L131 ..........old T1a2
.
.
The T1a1a branch is L162
.
.
T1a3 is to become T1a2

Sile
16-03-19, 18:57
@Sile nMonte3 EU 13...

The Bottom 2, old Illyrian - Messapic?
any thoughts?


http://i.imgur.com/LE1U7Do.jpg

what is this run from?

Salento
16-03-19, 19:02
what is this run from?

EU 13 DnaPortal, nMonte3 Oracle.

Sile
16-03-19, 19:21
EU 13 DnaPortal, nMonte3 Oracle.
thanks.....completely forgot about this site
.
.
Closest population distance .............using nMonte3
Population Distance
North_Italian 0.6536449
Tuscan 1.0947434
Romanian 1.1815506
Portuguese 1.2324841
Spanish_Galicia 1.3159366
.
.
.
Population Value
North_Italian 46.6
Tuscan 10.6
RO 5.6
French_Basque 3.8
Sardinian 3.6
.
.
I presume they got the galician from french Basque

Salento
16-03-19, 19:26
Could it be that RO is the common connection to Illyria?

Sile
16-03-19, 19:32
Could it be that RO is the common connection to Illyria?

linguistically , yes

romanian = dacians ...............before changing to Latin language, their language was a mix of thracian and illyrian coming from the proto- celtic-italic-illyrian-dacian-thracian group ( I have already placed some info about this a few months ago )

try searching .....what did the dacians speak before Latin

Sile
20-03-19, 19:22
another who is Z19945

Wilhelm Wolff,
Birthdate: November 21, 1627
Birthplace: Baden-Württemberg, Germany

his line appears as Johan Wolf in the T ftdna

................................................
.
in facebook, they have matched me with a norwegian line of Fure-Hessenes family, they have been dna tested as T-M70 ............I will await results

ToBeOrNotToBe
20-03-19, 19:51
another who is Z19945

Wilhelm Wolff,
Birthdate: November 21, 1627
Birthplace: Baden-Württemberg, Germany

his line appears as Johan Wolf in the T ftdna

................................................
.
in facebook, they have matched me with a norwegian line of Fure-Hessenes family, they have been dna tested as T-M70 ............I will await results

You just reminded me to check my FTDNA and after a year I've finally found my first 37 marker match! Eek - not the same surname... I think that's normal for Ashkenazim right? From 23andme I at least know both my bio parents are who they say they are, but maybe that isn't the case further down the male line?

Salento
20-03-19, 20:26
You just reminded me to check my FTDNA and after a year I've finally found my first 37 marker match! Eek - not the same surname... I think that's normal for Ashkenazim right? From 23andme I at least know both my bio parents are who they say they are, but maybe that isn't the case further down the male line?

Are you y T?

ToBeOrNotToBe
20-03-19, 20:47
Are you y T?

Nah, but I just posted in this thread anyway

Salento
20-03-19, 20:49
Nah, but I just posted in this thread anyway

I see. LOL

Huracan
21-03-19, 17:11
another who is Z19945

Wilhelm Wolff,
Birthdate: November 21, 1627
Birthplace: Baden-Württemberg, Germany

his line appears as Johan Wolf in the T ftdna

................................................
.
in facebook, they have matched me with a norwegian line of Fure-Hessenes family, they have been dna tested as T-M70 ............I will await results

Great to see more Z19945 individuals are being identified. Is Wolf in the Y-DNA T group results page? I do not see him among us...

Sile
25-03-19, 18:32
Great to see more Z19945 individuals are being identified. Is Wolf in the Y-DNA T group results page? I do not see him among us...
he is kit B239544
they have not ungraded the T project yet

.
...........................
.
I will post names of 3 more Z19945 in the following week , all east-german, czech, pole ...............they are not part of the T project

Salento
28-03-19, 02:51
Recent Ancestors V2 (Admixture Studio)

http://i.imgur.com/AWlaMyQ.jpg

Salento
30-03-19, 06:14
Y-DNA Ancestral Origins by Country

None of these matches are labeled T-Z19945.

They vary from T-M70 to T-CTS8862.

I guess the resemblance goes back thousands of years.

(Got a message saying they're updating the Haplogroups at FTDNA, soon).

http://i.imgur.com/QXxHqDh.jpg

Salento
19-04-19, 05:59
SNP Tracker:
from Y Adam to T-Z19945

http://i.imgur.com/RTW6kvq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RNYWetu.jpg

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

zanipolo
22-04-19, 00:41
SNP Tracker:
from Y Adam to T-Z19945

http://i.imgur.com/RTW6kvq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RNYWetu.jpg

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

other Z19945 placement .....................between your and below could be the true spot
https://i.postimg.cc/8Cz66n6L/pylo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/v4CTRhXm)

Salento
22-04-19, 15:33
other Z19945 placement .....................between your and below could be the true spot
https://i.postimg.cc/8Cz66n6L/pylo.jpg (https://postimg.cc/v4CTRhXm)


https://i.imgur.com/RTW6kvq.jpg

Halfway between the two maps: the True Spot ???

https://i.imgur.com/M9pjj1j.jpg

Salento
05-05-19, 05:59
I already submitted a paper which states Messapic was an east balkan language ............we need to find out who the Iapgians are as Measspic are Iapgian people of Italy


The Iapygians lived in Puglia, and were divided in three populations: the Daunians, Peucetians and Messapians.
@Sile The Iapygians-Illyrians connection, probably :)

https://i.imgur.com/GBxfBnd.jpg/

zanipolo
09-05-19, 19:47
@Sile The Iapygians-Illyrians connection, probably :)

https://i.imgur.com/GBxfBnd.jpg/

The Iapydes (or Iapodes, Japodes) [Greek,"Ιάποδες"] were an ancient people who dwelt north of and inland from the Liburnians, off the Adriatic coast and eastwards of the Istrian peninsula. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe known as "Iapydes" is by Hecataeus of Miletus.
.
Messapic

These tribes (Iapygian or Messapic tribes) did not dwell in Illyria, but in the heel of southern Italy. They could have had Illyrian origins[143] or some sort of link with Illyria.

Messapii
Dauni
Peucetii linked to the Liburnian Peucetias
Iapyges linked to the Iapodes, who were sometimes also called Iapyges
.
.
Are these messapic Iapyges the ones that came from near the Liburnians....the Iapodes ??

Salento
27-05-19, 06:18
SZ36 (T1a1...) and CL23 (T1a2 L446) according to MyTrueAncestry:

SZ36 is my Top Archaeogenetic match in 2 of my Kits.

SZ36
1. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.64)
https://i.imgur.com/FTFOgli.jpg
Modern Group
1. Tuscan (2.937)
2. North_Italian (8.213)
3. West_Sicilian (8.444)
4. Kosovan (8.963)
5. Italian_Abruzzo (9.271)
6. Greek (9.454)
7. Greek_Thessaly (10.26)
8. East_Sicilian (12.06)


CL23
Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (23.26)

https://i.imgur.com/QNB0aeu.jpg

Modern Group
1. North_Italian (10.06)
2. Spanish_Andalucia (10.28)
3. Spanish_Valencia (11.60)
4. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (11.71)
5. Spanish_Extremadura (11.72)
6. Spanish_Murcia (11.87)
7. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (12.57)
8. Spanish_Cataluna (12.89)



My K36 Ancient results:

https://i.imgur.com/RD3Hdbn.jpg

torzio
27-05-19, 20:19
SZ36 (T1a1...) and CL23 (T1a2 L446) according to MyTrueAncestry:

SZ36 is my Top Archaeogenetic match in 2 of my Kits.

SZ36
1. Central Roman (590 AD) (11.64)
https://i.imgur.com/FTFOgli.jpg
Modern Group
1. Tuscan (2.937)
2. North_Italian (8.213)
3. West_Sicilian (8.444)
4. Kosovan (8.963)
5. Italian_Abruzzo (9.271)
6. Greek (9.454)
7. Greek_Thessaly (10.26)
8. East_Sicilian (12.06)


CL23
Medieval Iberian (670 AD) (23.26)

https://i.imgur.com/QNB0aeu.jpg

Modern Group
1. North_Italian (10.06)
2. Spanish_Andalucia (10.28)
3. Spanish_Valencia (11.60)
4. Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha (11.71)
5. Spanish_Extremadura (11.72)
6. Spanish_Murcia (11.87)
7. Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon (12.57)
8. Spanish_Cataluna (12.89)



My K36 Ancient results:

https://i.imgur.com/RD3Hdbn.jpg

mine

Closest population distances

Population Distance

EMA_north-Italian_NW_54 1.197928
CL36_north-Italian 1.237396
CL57_north-Italian 1.330768
SZ28_north-Italian 1.438457
SZ43_north-Italian 1.541763
CL63_Alpine 1.577491
SZ37_Greek-Italian 1.615911
BA_Hungary_BR2 1.63093


how different are we and we are both T1a2 ..................clearly our T has been in Europe a very very long time

torzio
27-05-19, 20:39
a curiousity

Yfull has this for snp Z19945

T-Z19945 (https://yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/)Z19945formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybp


(https://yfull.com/branch-info/T-Z19945/)


so, 3100- ybp 1950 = 1150BCE .............this is the exact year that Venetic speaking people where known in Eastern alps ( as per studies by Elisa Perego , oxford univ )

https://journals.openedition.org/mefra/2503



https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269939561_Magic_and_Ritual_in_Iron_Age_Veneto_Ital y (https://journals.openedition.org/mefra/2503)

Salento
27-05-19, 23:23
mine

Closest population distances

Population Distance

EMA_north-Italian_NW_54 1.197928
CL36_north-Italian 1.237396
CL57_north-Italian 1.330768
SZ28_north-Italian 1.438457
SZ43_north-Italian 1.541763
CL63_Alpine 1.577491
SZ37_Greek-Italian 1.615911
BA_Hungary_BR2 1.63093


how different are we and we are both T1a2 ..................clearly our T has been in Europe a very very long time



a curiousity

Yfull has this for snp Z19945

T-Z19945 (https://yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945/)Z19945formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybp

(https://yfull.com/branch-info/T-Z19945/)so, 3100- ybp 1950 = 1150BCE .............this is the exact year that Venetic speaking people where known in Eastern alps ( as per studies by Elisa Perego , oxford univ )

https://journals.openedition.org/mefra/2503

(https://journals.openedition.org/mefra/2503)https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269939561_Magic_and_Ritual_in_Iron_Age_Veneto_Ital y



It’s possible that Z19945 developed in E.Alps, or it could also be Salento.

I don’t see why not, it’s all conjecture and coincidence.

That’s more than 3100 yeas ago.

You looked for differences, I looked for similarities instead.

You match some of my Ancient Samples too.

My K36 Ancient:
CL25_south_Italian 1.325678
SZ40_Italian 1.332341
CL31_Greek_Balkan 1.55981
SZ36_north-Italian 1.56524
EMA_Greek-Balkan_AEH_1 1.579821
SZ19_Italian-Balkan 1.634897
CL36_north-Italian 1.655377
SZ37_Greek-Italian 1.671724

Salento
28-05-19, 01:56
The Iapydes (or Iapodes, Japodes) [Greek,"Ιάποδες"] were an ancient people who dwelt north of and inland from the Liburnians, off the Adriatic coast and eastwards of the Istrian peninsula. The first written mention of an Illyrian tribe known as "Iapydes" is by Hecataeus of Miletus.
.
Messapic

These tribes (Iapygian or Messapic tribes) did not dwell in Illyria, but in the heel of southern Italy. They could have had Illyrian origins[143] or some sort of link with Illyria.

Messapii
Dauni
Peucetii linked to the Liburnian Peucetias
Iapyges linked to the Iapodes, who were sometimes also called Iapyges
.
.
Are these messapic Iapyges the ones that came from near the Liburnians....the Iapodes ??


Whomever wrote that Iapygians or Messapi didn’t “dwell” in Illyria, needs to see this:


https://i.imgur.com/thiGZLF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xPyt5sV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GBxfBnd.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/E9g1CUp.jpg

torzio
28-05-19, 02:27
It’s possible that Z19945 developed in E.Alps, or it could also be Salento.
I don’t see why not, it’s all conjecture and coincidence.
That’s more than 3100 yeas ago.
You looked for differences, I looked for similarities instead.
You match some of my Ancient Samples too.

My K36 Ancient:
CL25_south_Italian 1.325678
SZ40_Italian 1.332341
CL31_Greek_Balkan 1.55981
SZ36_north-Italian 1.56524
EMA_Greek-Balkan_AEH_1 1.579821
SZ19_Italian-Balkan 1.634897
CL36_north-Italian 1.655377
SZ37_Greek-Italian 1.671724






Iapydes/Iapygians/Illyrians could be the source of Z19945
One group went to south italy and the other to eastern alps

Salento
28-05-19, 02:44
Iapodes/Illyrians could be the source of Z19945
One group went to south italy and the other to eastern alps

It’s possible, maybe 2 bros had a fight and said: “that’s it, I go South and you go North, ... and don’t follow me!” LOL :)

torzio
28-05-19, 02:46
It’s possible, maybe 2 bros had a fight and said: “that’s it, I go South and you go North, ... and don’t follow me!” LOL :)

References at bottom in wiki thread
Iapygian-tarentni wars are interesting

Joey37
28-05-19, 03:43
Y-haplogroups and your closest match on Mytrueancestry.com may not be exactly equivalent; my haplogroup is R1a and my closest match is Bell Beaker Scotland, 2150 BC. If they ever found R1a in Bell Beaker...Carlos Quiles would have a stroke.

torzio
28-05-19, 07:12
References at bottom in wiki thread
Iapygian-tarentni wars are interesting


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygian-Tarentine_Wars

torzio
28-06-19, 23:03
another T with Z19945 marker

http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtiss/


https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults (http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtiss/)

Salento
29-06-19, 00:36
another T with Z19945 marker

http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtiss/


(http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtiss/)https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults


... and that makes two Colonial Era T-Z19945 in CT (Brooks and Curtiss).

I’m the first newcomer to the US from my family, so there can’t be any recent connection.


Another T1a2-z19945 match in ftdna
John Brooks .......check link for the john with 3g in his name
https://www.tributaries.info/ui49.htm#a2
his father John 1g ..........is from Windsor, Connecticut.......the same place as the family named Drake from Windsor, Connecticut. They where also haplogroup T

Salento
29-06-19, 01:56
imo it’s time to decently re-test the Thomas Jefferson relatives, bet you they’ve got more subclades!

torzio
29-06-19, 02:04
imo it’s time to decently re-test the Thomas Jefferson relatives, bet you they’ve got more subclades!

they have , but family will not allow more testing .............or even living family members

my guess is he is from modern wales and before that iberia and before that coastal egypt

torzio
29-06-19, 07:02
... and that makes two Colonial Era T-Z19945 in CT (Brooks and Curtiss).

I’m the first newcomer to the US from my family, so there can’t be any recent connection.

all the T in the ftdna link i presented are Z19945

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

Salento
29-06-19, 17:21
all the T in the ftdna link i presented are Z19945

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

I think that there are many more T-Z19945 in CT.

In a store in the Town of the Brooks, an old Man was following me around, and then with tears in his eyes said that I looked exactly like his (dead) Father, ...... anyway, all he Knows is that he’s a multi-generational local, and he’s an Anglo-German-Swiss mix, I told him that I’m Italian.

At first I thought he was a “confused” old man, (I look S.Eur.) ... who knows.

It doesn’t prove anything, but’s he’s not the only person that told me that I look familiar in that Town.

... that said, People often say that I look familiar to them.

torzio
10-07-19, 20:02
more closer in regards to the age in the placing of T-Z19945

https://i.postimg.cc/6pKwcmK6/new-place-z19945.png (https://postimg.cc/D8xty5mR)

torzio
18-07-19, 02:41
In the new viking paper there is one T1a2 with mtdna of H1b1
Origin from Hemse , south gotland island, origin...found in skara , western sweden
Skara was founded by Geats, also referred as Goths
................
Other T is Other branch....T1a1a with mtdna U5a2a1b found Ladoga near Leningrad Russia

torzio
18-07-19, 03:27
Geats where referred as Goutai by Ptolemy, while Jordanes called them Ostrogoths

HYGILI4K
19-07-19, 03:19
Geats where referred as Goutai by Ptolemy, while Jordanes called them Ostrogoths

According to table S6, VK398 was more than 1/3 italian-like. Couldn't this mean something? Italian ancestry?

HYGILI4K
19-07-19, 03:20
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/17/703405/DC3/embed/media-3.xlsx?download=true

The spreadsheet, table S6

torzio
20-07-19, 19:57
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/17/703405/DC3/embed/media-3.xlsx?download=true

The spreadsheet, table S6


thanks........sample VK398 .......... T1a2 ydna

nearly 39% "italian"
33% danish
13% british



below sample VK17 ............T1a1 yda

48% finnish
41% swedish

Salento
25-07-19, 23:39
In the new viking paper there is one T1a2 with mtdna of H1b1
Origin from Hemse , south gotland island, origin...found in skara , western sweden
Skara was founded by Geats, also referred as Goths
................
Other T is Other branch....T1a1a with mtdna U5a2a1b found Ladoga near Leningrad Russia

About the T1a1a Viking with mtDNA of U5a2a1b.

Surprisingly I know people from the Benevento province (Campania, Italy) with the same mtDNA.


https://i.imgur.com/aGyXHVj.png

torzio
26-07-19, 00:24
2 more T-L446 in 23andme ...................both noted as 3rd to 5th cousins from myself and father

surname
Riggi from Belluno

Lehnus from Gorizia


2 others noted as T-L446 one is very old ........none related to me , so far

Erspamer b. 1701 from Malosco Trentino


Ulrich Blarer b.1190 from Saint Gallen Switzerland .......T-CTS11984

>>>>>>>>.................................

to finish off

Zuanne De Zen b.about 1500 from Porcia Pordenone Friuli ..................3rd to 5th cousin

Di Cori ......T-CTS8862 from Artena in Lazio Province .....................not related

Sebok and Murrin .......T-CTS6507 from Regensberg Germany ....................Sebok is related, Murrin is not



This relationship to me is based on 23andme ,, I do not know how accurate they are

Salento
27-07-19, 05:28
2 more T-L446 in 23andme ...................both noted as 3rd to 5th cousins from myself and father

surname
Riggi from Belluno

Lehnus from Gorizia


2 others noted as T-L446 one is very old ........none related to me , so far

Erspamer b. 1701 from Malosco Trentino


Ulrich Blarer b.1190 from Saint Gallen Switzerland .......T-CTS11984

>>>>>>>>.................................

to finish off

Zuanne De Zen b.about 1500 from Porcia Pordenone Friuli ..................3rd to 5th cousin

Di Cori ......T-CTS8862 from Artena in Lazio Province .....................not related

Sebok and Murrin .......T-CTS6507 from Regensberg Germany ....................Sebok is related, Murrin is not



This relationship to me is based on 23andme ,, I do not know how accurate they are



















































































































On 23andme, can you query your matches by Haplogroup?

(I deleted my 23 .... long ago)

torzio
27-07-19, 07:11
On 23andme, can you query your matches by Haplogroup?

(I deleted my 23 .... long ago)


yes it downloads an excel sheet.....

Duarte
27-07-19, 07:38
On 23andme, can you query your matches by Haplogroup?

(I deleted my 23 .... long ago)

Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Haplotree


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/y-haplogroup-k2/dna-results

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T

https://i.imgur.com/CnsRKX3.png

torzio
27-07-19, 08:38
Family Tree DNA Y-DNA Haplotree


https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/y-haplogroup-k2/dna-results

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T

https://i.imgur.com/CnsRKX3.png

Yes he is in the ftdna T project under Z19945........thank you

Age of Z19945 is 3410 years from year 1950
so it is 3410+ 69 ( 2019-1950 =69 ) is 3479 years

torzio
22-08-19, 03:28
Found a 4th cousin relative with same ydna as myself in Blanzaguet-Saint-Cybard France with surname Tazzer.....under another cousin surname Bacchion in castelfranco, Veneto.
Unsure if the 23andme 4th cousins really means 4th cousins or later

torzio
23-08-19, 20:53
Another ftdna T1a2 match ( a distance of 1 ) with myself yesterday......from the persons family tree, i went back to

Herman Im Hoff from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuwied
b 1601

had son .....Antonius b.1620 d.1677 same place but in heddersdorf , Neuwied, Pfalz

torzio
28-08-19, 02:34
Another ftdna match..
Michael Lemke 1766-1813
From rosenberg, west prussia
Married Gottliebe Schachten from Norway

Current ancestors line Brian Lemke Usa

torzio
28-08-19, 02:50
Another match.......i seem to be getting a lot of matches....i wonder if it is due to my 700 results coming in today

Georg Fischer T-L446
1829 chemitz , old east-germany
Ftdna 171516

Salento
28-08-19, 03:52
Another match.......i seem to be getting a lot of matches....i wonder if it is due to my 700 results coming in today

Georg Fischer T-L446
1829 chemitz , old east-germany
Ftdna 171516

Congrats for the Y700 test.

Did you get the results already? or, are you still waiting for them? :)

torzio
28-08-19, 04:15
Congrats for the Y700 test.

Did you get the results already? or, are you still waiting for them? :)

Due today

The last 2 matching people could be errors....i do not know why ftdna asked me more questions and survey about my family lines

Salento
28-08-19, 04:43
Due today

The last 2 matching people could be errors....i do not know why ftdna asked me more questions and survey about my family lines

Probably to build a database with Timing, Relations, Names, and Locations, to so compare with present and future possible matches, and to figure out and to follow their movements and migrations.

torzio
28-08-19, 12:01
Probably to build a database with Timing, Relations, Names, and Locations, to so compare with present and future possible matches, and to figure out and to follow their movements and migrations.

Did you get this questionaire from ftdna ?

Salento
28-08-19, 13:39
Did you get this questionaire from ftdna ?

I see an option for the Family Ancestry Survey on the main page (I guess everybody can take the optional Survey).

torzio
28-08-19, 20:42
I see an option for the Family Ancestry Survey on the main page (I guess everybody can take the optional Survey).

they put my test back to 11 Sept.....batch 953 ........crap

torzio
31-08-19, 01:05
Another ftdna T1a2 match ( a distance of 1 ) with myself yesterday......from the persons family tree, i went back to

Herman Im Hoff from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuwied
b 1601

had son .....Antonius b.1620 d.1677 same place but in heddersdorf , Neuwied, Pfalz

further contact
Herman married Triggen Kupperskotten

Antonius married Anna Polch b. 23/2/1617 Pfalz

torzio
03-09-19, 23:38
Have an old 23andme match with a family named Prevedel, from Brez, Trento.........they have come about with another link i have from same area , named Neumann......(this one also appear in ftdna matches, as a 3rd cousin )
I was wondering on how can i link the 3 families and see if it is a ydna or mtdna match

torzio
06-09-19, 19:34
I see an option for the Family Ancestry Survey on the main page (I guess everybody can take the optional Survey).

results are in ...........awaiting completion



Big Y-700
Ordered
03/27/2019
953



Big Y-700
Batched
03/27/2019
953



Big Y-700
Completed
09/06/2019
953





I had to give them where my paternal and maternal lines came from ..................not including cousins, uncles etc.......just a direct line
below is from 1450 to 1950 .......these are only birth and death markers

https://i.postimg.cc/rpD92Rws/my-events.png




(https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/wv0x5MD5/events-2.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
16-09-19, 07:33
latest position by ftdna site on T-Z19945

looks like Vienna area


https://i.postimg.cc/8zhJyt6G/z19945.png (https://postimg.cc/87zzcd4X)

Lemonade
22-09-19, 21:25
latest position by ftdna site on T-Z19945

looks like Vienna area

Where can I find such maps on ftdna site?

torzio
23-09-19, 19:39
latest position by ftdna site on T-Z19945

looks like Vienna area

Where can I find such maps on ftdna site?

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

torzio
24-09-19, 07:59
results are in ...........awaiting completion



Big Y-700
Ordered
03/27/2019
953



Big Y-700
Batched
03/27/2019
953



Big Y-700
Completed
09/06/2019
953





I had to give them where my paternal and maternal lines came from ..................not including cousins, uncles etc.......just a direct line
below is from 1450 to 1950 .......these are only birth and death markers

https://i.postimg.cc/rpD92Rws/my-events.png




(https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/wv0x5MD5/events-2.png (https://postimages.org/)

global 10 analysis for myself



Distance: 1.5981% / 0.01598092
Aggregated


53.8
Italian_Lombardy





23.8
German_East





13.4
Sicilian_East





2.8
Italian_Liguria





2.6
Belarusian



https://i.postimg.cc/k52PQ462/global-10-analysis.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
01-10-19, 02:57
I have a 0 step away match in ftdna with william hill...in wikitree site, his tree is associated with another T-m70 person , named erspamer ( somewhere in the veneti alps ), yet this erspamer is not linked to me....yet when i go down their wikitree line...i am 1 step from their ancestor the Koethe line from grossfurra, thuringa
I really wonder if ftdna step matching really works

torzio
01-10-19, 07:12
I have a 0 step away match in ftdna with william hill...in wikitree site, his tree is associated with another T-m70 person , named erspamer ( somewhere in the veneti alps ), yet this erspamer is not linked to me....yet when i go down their wikitree line...i am 1 step from their ancestor the Koethe line from grossfurra, thuringa
I really wonder if ftdna step matching really works

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hill-3101

HYGILI4K
02-10-19, 02:44
I have a 0 step away match in ftdna with william hill...in wikitree site, his tree is associated with another T-m70 person , named erspamer ( somewhere in the veneti alps ), yet this erspamer is not linked to me....yet when i go down their wikitree line...i am 1 step from their ancestor the Koethe line from grossfurra, thuringa
I really wonder if ftdna step matching really works

I'm not an expert, but I think it depends on how much markers are compared. I.E, a 12 markers 0 step match doesn't necessary mean anything close.


Despite having tested 111 markers, I have only 12 markers matches. Some of my matches aren't even P312!

torzio
04-10-19, 19:17
I'm not an expert, but I think it depends on how much markers are compared. I.E, a 12 markers 0 step match doesn't necessary mean anything close.


Despite having tested 111 markers, I have only 12 markers matches. Some of my matches aren't even P312!

agree....could be 1000 years apart

torzio
04-10-19, 23:40
further contact today with a T-Z19945 who matches me in ftdna

from Balduzzi family of Trentino, Italy

There is a name change somewhere
as these all link into each other
Adam Wolff


Birth

21 Nov 1627 Stadtkreis Freiburg im Breisgau, Baden-Württemberg, Germany





his son is
Heinrich Wolff


Birth

1650



Death
1733 (aged 82–83)





his son is
Johann Adam Wolff


Birth

7 Feb 1688



Death
18 Sep 1741 (aged 53)





wife of johan was Maria Barbara Weydler

(https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/184443739/maria-barbara-wolff)1689–1769

torzio
12-10-19, 22:35
Another ftdna T1a2 match ( a distance of 1 ) with myself yesterday......from the persons family tree, i went back to

Herman Im Hoff from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuwied
b 1601

had son .....Antonius b.1620 d.1677 same place but in heddersdorf , Neuwied, Pfalz

1 step from myself



1


Christopher Daryl Hoff https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/email_16x16.gif ([email protected]) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/TiP_icon.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/tip-report?res=12&tokitnum=xYFzwZ%2F2ryW9GfQVV0%2BUaA%3D%3D&fromkitnum=6EQq4QN78KottE%2FAIOdlNA%3D%3D&gd=1) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/note_16x16.gif https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/gedcom_16x16.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/family-tree/share?k=xYFzwZ%2F2ryW9GfQVV0%2BUaA%3D%3D) Y-DNA37 FF



Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677

torzio
12-10-19, 22:36
further contact today with a T-Z19945 who matches me in ftdna

from Balduzzi family of Trentino, Italy

There is a name change somewhere
as these all link into each other
Adam Wolff


Birth
21 Nov 1627 Stadtkreis Freiburg im Breisgau, Baden-Württemberg, Germany




his son is
Heinrich Wolff


Birth
1650


Death
1733 (aged 82–83)





his son is
Johann Adam Wolff


Birth
7 Feb 1688


Death
18 Sep 1741 (aged 53)





wife of johan was Maria Barbara Weydler

(https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/184443739/maria-barbara-wolff)1689–1769

1 step from myself



1



Thomas Riley(Wolf) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/email_16x16.gif ([email protected]) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/TiP_icon.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/tip-report?res=12&tokitnum=j5leRBbQbncbrO4xiLdDeg%3D%3D&fromkitnum=6EQq4QN78KottE%2FAIOdlNA%3D%3D&gd=1) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/note_16x16.gif https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/gedcom_16x16.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/family-tree/share?k=j5leRBbQbncbrO4xiLdDeg%3D%3D) Y-DNA67 FF



Johann Adam Wolff, b.1688 and d. 1741

torzio
12-10-19, 22:37
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hill-3101

1 step from myself




1


A L Hill https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/email_16x16.gif ([email protected]) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/TiP_icon.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/tip-report?res=12&tokitnum=nk3rBRplYYH4axItFzhTBw%3D%3D&fromkitnum=6EQq4QN78KottE%2FAIOdlNA%3D%3D&gd=1) https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/note_16x16.gif https://www.familytreedna.com/img/my/icons/gedcom_16x16.gif (https://www.familytreedna.com/my/family-tree/share?k=nk3rBRplYYH4axItFzhTBw%3D%3D) Y-DNA37




William W. Hill 1816-1894, Washington Co. GA

torzio
14-10-19, 18:49
a 23andme match with myself....unsure how accurate 23andme is

surname - Lehnus

3 households in Lombardy and 2 in Friuli ( gorizia town )

ydna - T-L446
mtdna - X2b4

4th cousin

.........................

Lehnus matches the Bernot line of Walloon Belgium , whose ancestors are also from gorizia Friuli

BMW
14-10-19, 22:06
latest position by ftdna site on T-Z19945

looks like Vienna area


https://i.postimg.cc/8zhJyt6G/z19945.png (https://postimg.cc/87zzcd4X)


Straddling Slovakia and Hungary?

torzio
15-10-19, 18:25
Straddling Slovakia and Hungary?

looks like it

BTW...i match with a Patrick Walsh in ftdna matches and both match with the Neuman and Poe families ...........anything to do with yourself?

BMW
15-10-19, 21:45
looks like it

BTW...i match with a Patrick Walsh in ftdna matches and both match with the Neuman and Poe families ...........anything to do with yourself?

No....a different Walsh.
I have been in contact with Victor Pretotto on the T project (FTDNA) who is a 3rd Cousin - 5th Cousin to a Patrick Walsh on FTDNA....probably the same Patrick. Victor is also a T-Z19945 with ties to Val di Non / Trentino.

BMW
15-10-19, 21:53
I do not match Patrick on FTDNA. I'd like to contact him but I guess there would be no other way besides plastering e-mail addresses all over the place.
Any suggestions?

torzio
15-10-19, 22:03
I do not match Patrick on FTDNA. I'd like to contact him but I guess there would be no other way besides plastering e-mail addresses all over the place.
Any suggestions?

So the patrick walsh in ftdna t project in the z19945 group is not you ?!?....so i thought mr.henson placed you with me

Salento
15-10-19, 23:42
Map: Z19945 Z19943 CTS1848

https://i.imgur.com/neUymlG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6LQCqs6.jpg

BMW
16-10-19, 05:49
So the patrick walsh in ftdna t project in the z19945 group is not you ?!?....so i thought mr.henson placed you with me

¡Ay, caramba!

These are two different Patrick Walsh's.
There is one on Family Finder on FTDNA who is a match of Victor Pretotto's...and would be contemporary of all of us.
My 2nd great grandfather Patrick Walsh is the one listed on the ftdna t project in the z19945 group. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1061/1924/products/Thumbs_Up_Hand_Sign_Emoji_large.png?v=1480481047

BMW
16-10-19, 05:57
looks like it

BTW...i match with a Patrick Walsh in ftdna matches and both match with the Neuman and Poe families ...........anything to do with yourself?

I took this as meaning the one in Family Finder....my bad.

torzio
16-10-19, 18:38
Map: Z19945 Z19943 CTS1848

https://i.imgur.com/neUymlG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6LQCqs6.jpg

mine below

https://i.postimg.cc/nrxKZJn8/matches-map.png


(https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/W1cVvYkG/euro-matches.png (https://postimages.org/)


bottom one in Italy is ...Michael William Benedetto ...........

torzio
16-10-19, 18:53
Another match for myself in ftdna


paul lello

2nd Cousin - 4th Cousin


Shared cM 45


Longest block 20




Sent message , awaiting more info......what I found is below ( how accurate , unsure )


Traccia araldica :
Lello

Antica famiglia del Trentino, con residenza nella città di Trento. Carlo, principe - vescovo di Trento, con diploma 20 settembre 1620, creò nobile ereditario dell'Impero Pietro Lello, canonico vicario generale e suo Vescovo coadiutore, insieme al fratello Antonio e ai suoi discendenti. Vari rami della famiglia si propagarono in diverse regioni d'Italia. Altro ramo. Si ha memoria di questa famiglia fin dal 1320, originaria del Veneto,

torzio
16-10-19, 19:00
N145191 is surname, Caquelin in origin from Alsace, France ...............current surname Brennan in UK
and IIRC, 562486 is Daniel Alexander Rossi , Origins from Portoguaro NorthEast Italy

BMW
16-10-19, 19:53
https://i.postimg.cc/cH0MGWsp/z19945-matches.png


N145191 is surname, Caquelin in origin from Alsace, France ...............current surname Brennan in UK

and IIRC, 562486 is Daniel Alexander Rossi , Origins from Portoguaro NorthEast Italy
(https://postimages.org/)

An interesting coincidence....my 2nd great grandfather Walsh married a Brennan...both from Co. Carlow.

BMW
16-10-19, 19:59
https://i.postimg.cc/cH0MGWsp/z19945-matches.png


N145191 is surname, Caquelin in origin from Alsace, France ...............current surname Brennan in UK

and IIRC, 562486 is Daniel Alexander Rossi , Origins from Portoguaro NorthEast Italy
(https://postimages.org/)

Torzio,

Which kit # are you associated with?

Salento
16-10-19, 20:12
To Everybody:
Please be more discreet when your posts.

BMW
16-10-19, 20:41
To Everybody:
Please be more discreet when your posts.

No indiscretion meant.

torzio
16-10-19, 20:41
To Everybody:
Please be more discreet when your posts.
Explain to myself, privately
Regards

torzio
16-10-19, 21:54
Torzio,

Which kit # are you associated with?

Ask me privately

BMW
16-10-19, 23:54
Ask me privately


I appreciate it.

Kelley Caquelin
05-11-19, 03:03
When the Caquelin's arrived in Pennsylvania, USA in 1735 the man at the port taking names from the passengers spelled their last name Cockley and some were Gockley. During the American Revolution many Cockley actually fought in Ohio and some upon returning from war moved their to live. Waldersbach was established in France around 1639AD. The area was formerly known as Steintal which became part of Ban de la Roche in 1584 AD. I believe this is what causes some confusion of French or German references.

torzio
05-11-19, 05:03
When the Caquelin's arrived in Pennsylvania, USA in 1735 the man at the port taking names from the passengers spelled their last name Cockley and some were Gockley. During the American Revolution many Cockley actually fought in Ohio and some upon returning from war moved their to live. Waldersbach was established in France around 1639AD. The area was formerly known as Steintal which became part of Ban de la Roche in 1584 AD. I believe this is what causes some confusion of French or German references.

Thank you

is your family line also have DNA T ?

Kelley Caquelin
08-11-19, 18:14
My Y-DNA is T-CTS1848 and I am new to the DNA results so bare with me.

torzio
08-11-19, 18:25
My Y-DNA is T-CTS1848 and I am new to the DNA results so bare with me.

Thank you ,
So you are also positive for z19945

I am negative for cts1848.....but a person from walloon belgium, surname Bernot is the same as yourself

Salento
08-11-19, 18:40
My Y-DNA is T-CTS1848 and I am new to the DNA results so bare with me.

The Son of a T-Z19945 Man, mutated into a T-CTS1848.

I’m negative for T-CTS1848, but we’re both positive for T-Z19945.

torzio
08-11-19, 21:29
My Y-DNA is T-CTS1848 and I am new to the DNA results so bare with me.

You should contact Gareth from the T project.....he will help you

torzio
09-11-19, 00:36
Interesting that in the ftdna T project, ..Gamma-1.1-B pages00113 has z19945 as positive
Most on this list seem eastern europeans


Btw, i am negative for pages00113

Salento
09-11-19, 01:29
Interesting that in the ftdna T project, ..Gamma-1.1-B pages00113 has z19945 as positive
Most on this list seem eastern europeans


Btw, i am negative for pages00113

Many are Ashkenazy.

I’m also negative for pages00113.

torzio
09-11-19, 05:38
Many are Ashkenazy.

I’m also negative for pages00113.

It means that z19945 is the father of pages00113 and not its equal

torzio
11-11-19, 20:47
@salento
Messapic expanded with Bell Beakers migrating through the Italian Peninsula, or rather southward through the eastern Adriatic coast. Based on the connections of the Cetina culture with Bell Beakers from the Italian Peninsula, and the potential nature of Messapian as a North-West Indo-European dialect, it seems more likely that Proto-Messapic speakers expanded first southward from the Alps into mainland areas east of the Appennines, and were later replaced and displaced to the south-eastern corner with migrations of Italic peoples. Two individuals from Early/Middle Bronze Age from Veliki Vanik in Split-Dalmatia (ca. 1630–1510 BC) include one of hg. J2b2a-M241 (formed ca. 118000 BC, TMRCA ca 7800 BC), probably corresponding to subclade J2b2a1-L283 (TMRCA ca. 3400 BC), since basal clades are found today in modern populations of southern Italy and Anatolia. These and a later sample of the Late Bronze Age from the Jazinka Cave, near Nečven (ca. 780 BC) show similar ancestry to other available Balkan samples, but with increased Steppe ancestry (ca. 35%), and slightly less WHG (although similar EHG) contribution compared to other Early Bronze Age individuals from the Balkans. Interestingly, this haplogroup, which probably arrived in the Balkans from a westward expansion through Anatolia during the Chalcolithic or Neolithic, is found later in Armenia MLBA in an individual with Steppe ancestry (see §viii.14. Caucasians and Armenians). The finding of haplogroup J-M304 among Mycenaeans (see §viii.12. Greeks and Phand Philistines) further suggests a relative infiltration rather than a massive migration of Yamna male lineages in the southern Balkans, probably due in great part to the higher demographic density of south-eastern Europe (Müller and Diachenko 2019).
In the south-east, Messapic-speaking Iapyginians from Botromagno (ca. 7th–4 th c. BC) show mainly mtDNA subclades H and U, while the later Romans from nearby Vagnari (ca. AD 1st-4th c.) Show other markers

Salento
12-11-19, 01:11
@Torzio is that your new Hypothesis / Educated guess? or did you read it somewhere?

torzio
12-11-19, 01:31
@Torzio is that your new Hypothesis / Educated guess? or did you read it somewhere?

From other site.....info for you.....i always said the messapic came from east of the liburnians this states further north......it says the massapic marched down the coast,

Salento
12-11-19, 02:00
From other site.....info for you.....i always said the messapic came from east of the liburnians this states further north......it says the massapic marched down the coast,

They didn't mention the Illyrians,

... with all the implications of being an Illyrians means.

torzio
12-11-19, 22:30
They didn't mention the Illyrians,

... with all the implications of being an Illyrians means.

Since tge daunians are the biggest group of messapics, i suggest u look into the daunian peninsula history near foggia

torzio
29-11-19, 19:59
They didn't mention the Illyrians,

... with all the implications of being an Illyrians means.

only northern Illyrians tattooed , learning from their northern neighbours, the celts

interesting "messapic" daunians

https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women


and

https://www.academia.edu/33341054/Illyrian_Vestiges_in_Daunian_Costume_tattoos_strin g_aprons_and_a_helmet (https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women)

Salento
30-11-19, 00:42
only northern Illyrians tattooed , learning from their northern neighbours, the celts
interesting "messapic" daunians
https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women
and
(https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women)https://www.academia.edu/33341054/Illyrian_Vestiges_in_Daunian_Costume_tattoos_strin g_aprons_and_a_helmet

you should see my Messapic ink ... lol

MTA y-DNA T summary:
https://i.imgur.com/WyBzvsP.jpg

Timeline:
https://i.imgur.com/thL2Hsu.jpg

Protovillanovian and Illirians (Messapi?) - Bronze Age:
https://i.imgur.com/4WnOrfE.jpg

y T Rome Latin Tribe Ardea -Iron Age:
https://i.imgur.com/u6QzUst.jpg

torzio
30-11-19, 17:38
only northern Illyrians tattooed , learning from their northern neighbours, the celts

interesting "messapic" daunians

https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women


and

(https://www.academia.edu/984109/The_Tribal_Tattooing_of_Daunian_Women)https://www.academia.edu/33341054/Illyrian_Vestiges_in_Daunian_Costume_tattoos_strin g_aprons_and_a_helmet



The Daunians , messapic and others come from Iapodes ...............it is just a spit over the adriatic "pond"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburnia#/media/File:Liburnia_5th_BC.png

torzio
06-12-19, 19:36
... and that makes two Colonial Era T-Z19945 in CT (Brooks and Curtiss).

I’m the first newcomer to the US from my family, so there can’t be any recent connection.

Yfull first match with me on same group

https://i.postimg.cc/9QGLDc91/brucke.png (https://postimg.cc/5X2BGdnF)

I went as far back as I could and the original surname was Brucke from Hanover Germany

they are related to the Curtiss T ydna line from Cornwall who originated from
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

Salento
06-12-19, 23:09
Yfull first match with me on same group

https://i.postimg.cc/9QGLDc91/brucke.png (https://postimg.cc/5X2BGdnF)

I went as far back as I could and the original surname was brucke from Hanover Germany

they are related to the Curtiss T ydna line from Cornwall who originated from
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

Colonial T-Z19945? (Daniel Curtiss, Connecticut 1652)

Stratford was founded by Puritans in 1639.

(I can get there in about 1 hour)

... from my side, any relation to him is obviously Ancient, I think.

torzio
07-12-19, 01:07
Colonial T-Z19945? (Daniel Curtiss, Connecticut 1652)

Stratford was founded by Puritans in 1639.

(I can get there in about 1 hour)

... from my side, any relation to him is obviously Ancient, I think.

Both Curtiss and Brooks ( born 1640 )are from Stratford Connecticut..................originally cornish UK

torzio
07-12-19, 17:58
Colonial T-Z19945? (Daniel Curtiss, Connecticut 1652)

Stratford was founded by Puritans in 1639.

(I can get there in about 1 hour)

... from my side, any relation to him is obviously Ancient, I think.

the current T tree from yfull for our line ........................note YF67318 is Belgium and other BEL is his brother...............and ERS256892 is the trentino sample which has Z19945 , strange as it makes Z19945 older by 600 years ..............I still have no answer from yfull on this matter


https://i.postimg.cc/7hLCkzCG/new-yfull-end-2019.png (https://postimages.org/)

age of snp Z19945 is still 3410ybp ( -1950 = 1560BC ) ....................I foresee due to our differences the split between us occurred between balkan thracian people and up to dacian people


oldest map I could find is from strabo ......................so east of the Triballi noted tribe on the map ...............you could be part of the "golden man" ...................
https://i.postimg.cc/HWPnMVcz/strabo-illyria.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
09-12-19, 17:26
@salento

Unsure how long you have been doing dna research ..............but in the past Ftdna had a side branch called ysearch, this would give you matches in their database, myself and Huracan ( a USA person on this site who is in our Z19945 ftdna group ) matched Frush and Curtiss people , usually in our top 5 people.

when ysearch ceased a company called Semargyl tested every ftdna ydna person of minimum y37 and gave all positive results only ( sorry for presentation , lost everything when old pc died in July)

Germany are all Frush members and the Belgium are all Bernot members ...............all have Z19945

https://i.postimg.cc/PrfmTkdg/semargyl.png


(https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/FzkXJ6vN/frush1.png

I also have a couple of Erzya -Macedonians matches ...........which are steppe people migrated to Macedonia

(https://postimages.org/)The Mordvins, also Mordva, Mordvinians, Mordovians (Erzya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzya_language): эрзят/erzät, Moksha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha_language): мокшет/mokšet, Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): мордва/mordva), are a people who speak the Mordvinic languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvinic_languages) of the Uralic language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_language) family and live mainly in the Republic of Mordovia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordovia) and other parts of the middle Volga River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_River) region of Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvins#cite_note-EB-3)
The Mordvins are one of the larger indigenous peoples of Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_larger_indigenous_peoples_of_Russia). They identify themselves as separate ethnic groups:[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvins#cite_note-EB-3) the Erzya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzya_people)

Unsure if you get this match ..........they also state themselves as from Kosovo instead of Macedonia

Salento
09-12-19, 18:23
@salento
Unsure how long you have been doing dna research ..............but in the past Ftdna had a side branch called ysearch, this would give you matches in their database, myself and Huracan ( a USA person on this site who is in our Z19945 ftdna group ) matched Frush and Curtiss people , usually in our top 5 people.
when ysearch ceased a company called Semargyl tested every ftdna ydna person of minimum y37 and gave all positive results only ( sorry for presentation , lost everything when old pc died in July)
Germany are all Frush members and the Belgium are all Bernot members ...............all have Z19945
https://i.postimg.cc/PrfmTkdg/semargyl.png
(https://postimages.org/)https://i.postimg.cc/FzkXJ6vN/frush1.png
I also have a couple of Erzya -Macedonians matches ...........which are steppe people migrated to Macedonia
(https://postimages.org/)The Mordvins, also Mordva, Mordvinians, Mordovians (Erzya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzya_language): эрзят/erzät, Moksha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha_language): мокшет/mokšet, Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language): мордва/mordva), are a people who speak the Mordvinic languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvinic_languages) of the Uralic language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_language) family and live mainly in the Republic of Mordovia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordovia) and other parts of the middle Volga River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volga_River) region of Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvins#cite_note-EB-3)
The Mordvins are one of the larger indigenous peoples of Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_larger_indigenous_peoples_of_Russia). They identify themselves as separate ethnic groups:[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordvins#cite_note-EB-3) the Erzya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzya_people)
Unsure if you get this match ..........they also state themselves as from Kosovo instead of Macedonia

One of my y Hungary matches “Earliest Known Ancestor” is a Mordechai, maybe based to Mordivins / Mordva

He also has Cavallo (HORSE in Italian) in his Ancestral surname :)

torzio
11-12-19, 23:49
One of my y Hungary matches “Earliest Known Ancestor” is a Mordechai, maybe based to Mordivins / Mordva

He also has Cavallo (HORSE in Italian) in his Ancestral surname :)

I have a few Cavallin surname from morgano veneto in my family tree

Salento
12-12-19, 01:53
I have a few Cavallin surname from morgano veneto in my family tree

The Messapic town next to mine is called Cavallino

Messapic Warrior monument of Cavallino:
(I just realized that at the bottom of the statue there’s part of my signature in Latin :cool-v:)

But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

http://3.citynews-lecceprima.stgy.ovh/~media/original-hi/44552654572370/masimo-montinaro-cavallino-guerriero-messapico.jpg

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavallino_(Italia)

torzio
12-12-19, 05:26
The Messapic town next to mine is called Cavallino

Messapic Warrior monument of Cavallino:
(I just realized that at the bottom of the statue there’s part of my signature in Latin :cool-v:)

But you oh Messapo, Tamer of Horses ... that no one, with neither iron nor fire can break down! “Virgil”

http://3.citynews-lecceprima.stgy.ovh/~media/original-hi/44552654572370/masimo-montinaro-cavallino-guerriero-messapico.jpg

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavallino_(Italia)


La distribuzione geografica del cognome Cavallin nella Provincia di Treviso
66 Montebelluna

53 Vedelago

33 Paese

21 Istrana

20 Treviso

12 Morgano


......................................

La distribuzione geografica del cognome Cavallin in Italia



527 Veneto (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/VENETO)


68 Lombardia (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/LOMBARDIA)


36 Piemonte


.................................................. .............

(https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/PIEMONTE)https://www.antenati-italiani.org/it/cognomi/6213-cavallin



BTW.....I cancelled all my accounts at Gedmatch after it was sold ...............I was not getting anything out of it anymore

Salento
13-12-19, 02:52
La distribuzione geografica del cognome Cavallin nella Provincia di Treviso
66 Montebelluna

53 Vedelago

33 Paese

21 Istrana

20 Treviso

12 Morgano


......................................

La distribuzione geografica del cognome Cavallin in Italia



527 Veneto (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/VENETO)


68 Lombardia (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/LOMBARDIA)


36 Piemonte


.................................................. .............

(https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CAVALLIN/PIEMONTE)https://www.antenati-italiani.org/it/cognomi/6213-cavallin



BTW.....I cancelled all my accounts at Gedmatch after it was sold ...............I was not getting anything out of it anymore

... too little too late!

It won’t make any difference, ... we have uploaded our raw-data in so many places, that any expectation of protected privacy is wishful thinking.

I have deleted accounts on a few sites, ... who knows what really happened to my raw-data :petrified:

Duarte
13-12-19, 04:09
@torzio @Salento

I'm sorry to disappoint you, men, but all these guys already have your data.:grin:

https://i.imgur.com/8kgQy7Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/nwn7PLU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kNuDwny.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iLpfcUf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/js2K7sy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LsP18AJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lLVC6Tl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7zmhvI9.jpg

Salento
13-12-19, 05:53
@Duarte ... hope they like what they see!

( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°) :grin:

torzio
20-12-19, 17:53
the current T tree from yfull for our line ........................note YF67318 is Belgium and other BEL is his brother...............and ERS256892 is the trentino sample which has Z19945 , strange as it makes Z19945 older by 600 years ..............I still have no answer from yfull on this matter


https://i.postimg.cc/7hLCkzCG/new-yfull-end-2019.png (https://postimages.org/)

age of snp Z19945 is still 3410ybp ( -1950 = 1560BC ) ....................I foresee due to our differences the split between us occurred between balkan thracian people and up to dacian people


oldest map I could find is from strabo ......................so east of the Triballi noted tribe on the map ...............you could be part of the "golden man" ...................
https://i.postimg.cc/HWPnMVcz/strabo-illyria.png (https://postimages.org/)

In ftdna T project, the new sample MK5443 is identical to 116079 ( curtiss ) in all 111 STR's

Curtiss and Brooks ( above ) are related circa 120 years ago

Curtiss is related to the Frush and Freshour lines

Frush are T-Z19945 , so is Brooks, MK5443 and 100% curtiss line is as well

Frush brothers below ( 536211 is a walloon with Goritizia Italy ancestry )
https://i.postimg.cc/7Zx1v5n6/z19945-german.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
20-12-19, 22:55
Another match arrived today from the Bon family of Volgago del Montello, Veneto
4 family link so far ....when I get data I will present it

Paternal side ( ydna )

Bon family is part of the venetian "nobility" ie, government

torzio
23-12-19, 06:39
a 23andme match with myself....unsure how accurate 23andme is

surname - Lehnus

3 households in Lombardy and 2 in Friuli ( gorizia town )

ydna - T-L446
mtdna - X2b4

4th cousin

.........................

Lehnus matches the Bernot line of Walloon Belgium , whose ancestors are also from gorizia Friuli

https://i.postimg.cc/xdPKd9WN/lehnus.png (https://postimages.org/)

The wife of the above matches me in Ftdna ................but the husband is T-L446 ...which is my line
how much creedence can we give that one of the sons found his way into my line ?

torzio
26-12-19, 22:59
This person is T1a2-L446 norway

Anders Hestenes, born 1490,Hyen,Gloppen,SFJ Norway

I match a " 3rd-4th cousin" with 2 segments and 14cm with a norwegian family called Onstad ....................apparently linked with Hestenes .....................I doubt it as i can follow my paternal line for over 500 years with written records.....but , I will check further

Huracan
05-01-20, 17:07
It means that z19945 is the father of pages00113 and not its equal

I too saw that FTDNA T Group results now have PAGES00113 as CTS8862+ Z19945+. In fact, when I checked my FTDNA results the haplotree now shows PAGES00113 as below CTS8862/CTS1848. Attaching a screenshot of what I found here.

11705

As @Salento said, many of this group are Ashkenazi but also includes one Puerto Rican (surname Charriez, which appears to be French in origin). Thought this was interesting.

torzio
05-01-20, 17:20
I too saw that FTDNA T Group results now have PAGES00113 as CTS8862+ Z19945+. In fact, when I checked my FTDNA results the haplotree now shows PAGES00113 as below CTS8862/CTS1848. Attaching a screenshot of what I found here.

11705

As @Salento said, many of this group are Ashkenazi but also includes one Puerto Rican (surname Charriez, which appears to be French in origin). Thought this was interesting.

I think the change is due to my conversation with the owner of the brooks line .......who states the curtiss line is related to the brooks line ( about 125 years ago ) and the curtiss is related to the Frush/Freshour line

Kit MK5443 is a "multikit" from the Frush/brooks family and they now sit with us on the ftdna T group ...........they have been changed from Z19945 to next level down T-BY64684

The curtiss and brooks are identical in Y111 str levels and snp level
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour/default.aspx?section=yresults



Btw ....kit N145191 is the Caquelin line ...........see previous posts as the owner has given a small history on the family


also.......below are all in ftdna 0 or 1 step from myself

https://i.postimg.cc/26Q5MVD9/related.png (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour/default.aspx?section=yresults)

torzio
09-01-20, 17:32
Spoke to Gareth yesterday....................he is splitting up the Z19945 group in ftdna

torzio
24-01-20, 02:41
I have always had a very close match with a Altenhofen family in ftdna.....i have now found that it is linked with the Lello family from Roana, Vicenza,Veneto...., so a brorher and sister married into the other family......one of these families is the T1a ydna family

torzio
24-01-20, 21:00
a confusing T marker

I am zero distance in ftdna with

Christian Atherholt (1724 - 1812)





Christian Atherholt (https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/ATHERHOLT)
Born 1724 in Hanover , Germany
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of Anna Marie Hedwig (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hedwig-16) — married [date unknown] [location unknown]

yet this person is in another link

with Christopher Kile family in Hanover who is also T .................but he is positive for snp P322 , while the Altherholt line plus my line are negative for snp P322


>..........................................

I will chat with a fellow aussie , who is also T1a2 and has snp P322 .................I think his family is either thuringian or silesian ( german )

torzio
31-01-20, 22:39
I thought I mentioned the Gei family before..............oh well another contact yesterday .........from N.Gei 78 yo male ......fluent in Italian, Venetian and Austrian



Gei, Dall'Asta, Elle, Seitz ( a small list from Gei site ) ......................2 of these I have links, Gei in BDM records and Seitz in 3rd cousin 23andme match

In their tree they have two names which are linked to me......Frassetto and Puppato


also the Hintz line in the Gei family tree are from Padua province which is related to one of my paternal line that went to Morgano

All names above come from Belluno and Valle di Cadore areas of the Belluno province of Veneto region

others from southern Belluno province in town of Fonzaso which are linked to me are the
Toigo and Cemin families

torzio
11-02-20, 18:48
another T match for me ..............unsure it is rated 3rd cousin to distant ( what does that mean ?)

Vincenzo Abliedinger ....whose original surname was Zocher from Enns Austria .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enns_(town).................originally from Maniago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniago

this sample cross matches many segments matching with this person, myself my father and sister ( but not my son ?)

torzio
24-02-20, 23:43
Another T-Z19945 placed with me in yfull.....no idea yet on who it is
Is it you Salento ?

Salento
25-02-20, 00:32
Another T-Z19945 placed with me in yfull.....no idea yet on who it is
Is it you Salento ?

I didn’t test with Yfull, so unless they got a hold of my data, I doubt it :)

... (Yseq)

torzio
25-02-20, 02:30
I didn’t test with Yfull, so unless they got a hold of my data, I doubt it :)

... (Yseq)

Ok
Have some details.....unsure how accurate as i await yfull
Person is polish from 5km south of malbork......old prussia lands.
I remember in the ysearch days ....my main 2 matches was a brooks (who is z19945 ) and a person named Ahman...from baltic sea , east of gdansk

Salento
25-02-20, 02:33
Ok
Have some details.....unsure how accurate as i await yfull
Person is polish from 5km south of malbork......old prussia lands.

I remember in the ysearch days ....my main 2 matches was a brooks (who is z19945 ) and a person named Ahman...from baltic sea , east of gdansk

The Brooks are in Connecticut.

torzio
25-02-20, 02:40
The Brooks are in Connecticut.

Just got confirmation from the pole....it is his sample......he is related on other sires with brooks and curtiss....which must include the freshour and fuser families

torzio
25-02-20, 04:59
The Brooks are in Connecticut.


yes and before this from Cornwall England

and before this from Hanover Germany with original surname of Brucke

I sent you a private message

Salento
27-02-20, 03:45
Could it be that Pandemics caused the demise of y T ?

maybe we don’t do too well ...

That’s freaky ... :)

... y T ... rare and widespread ...

torzio
27-02-20, 05:22
Could it be that Pandemics caused the demise of y T ?

maybe we don’t do too well ...

That’s freaky ... :)

... y T ... rare and widespread ...

I think it is to do with slow sperm swimmers as per a snp in the M184 group .............so we produce 3 girls to every 5 children , IIRC from an old report ...........I need to go back to my old files to find the snp

I got info from 2 people , maciano and another from italy ( forgot his name , but was from near ascoli with marker T1a1a3 (T-PF7443) )
could be here
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311512082_Major_Y-chromosomal_haplogroups_are_defined_by_gene-altering_polymorphisms_affecting_fertility_and_rep roductory_success

Salento
27-02-20, 06:33
I think it is to do with slow sperm swimmers as per a snp in the M184 group .............so we produce 3 girls to every 5 children , IIRC from an old report ...........I need to go back to my old files to find the snp
I got info from 2 people , maciano and another from italy ( forgot his name , but was from near ascoli with marker T1a1a3 (T-PF7443) )
could be here
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311512082_Major_Y-chromosomal_haplogroups_are_defined_by_gene-altering_polymorphisms_affecting_fertility_and_rep roductory_success
So you're saying that in the World there are more “pseudo y T Women” :) than y T Men.

torzio
27-02-20, 17:48
So you're saying that in the World there are more “pseudo y T Women” :) than y T Men.

we will never know because all the mtdna would be different

Salento
27-02-20, 18:35
we will never know because all the mtdna would be different

... hope this help: lol

most Salentini are excellent swimmers,

as a matter of fact, in my area, a rite of passage to manhood is swimming to the “Scoglio delle Fontanelle” and back :)
(been there, done that)

true !!!

torzio
27-02-20, 21:46
... hope this help: lol

most Salentini are excellent swimmers,

as a matter of fact, in my area, a rite of passage to manhood is swimming to the “Scoglio delle Fontanelle” and back :)
(been there, done that)

true !!!

Only people who do that thing where i live are greeks....once a year , late january

Salento
27-02-20, 22:39
Only people who do that thing where i live are greeks....once a year , late january

... makes sense

In Australia, Summer is in the Winter months,

... makes no sense :grin:

I guess is an ancient tradition, ... I wonder where it started at first.

torzio
28-02-20, 17:25
... makes sense

In Australia, Summer is in the Winter months,

... makes no sense :grin:

I guess is an ancient tradition, ... I wonder where it started at first.

I will ask at work...there are a couple of greeks who know where this tradition started .............dates not important....its like the greek easter, changes dates yearly depending on how many full moons have passed after a certain date

torzio
28-02-20, 20:43
the new yfull match


YF71651
new
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/pm.png (https://www.yfull.com/messages/pm/71651/)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/i-node.pngT-Z19945* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945*)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/y-search2.png (https://www.yfull.com/snp/matches/#inline_YF71651) 10



I have spoken to the person who owns this ID


@salento
this is your map
https://i.postimg.cc/fyx8kRNQ/z19945-eastern.png (https://postimages.org/)

do you have an update , as sample above is one of these

Salento
29-02-20, 03:28
the new yfull match


YF71651
new
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/pm.png (https://www.yfull.com/messages/pm/71651/)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/i-node.pngT-Z19945* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Z19945*)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/y-search2.png (https://www.yfull.com/snp/matches/#inline_YF71651) 10



I have spoken to the person who owns this ID


@salento
this is your map
https://i.postimg.cc/fyx8kRNQ/z19945-eastern.png (https://postimages.org/)

do you have an update , as sample above is one of these

no change, everything is still the same, even after the y111 upgrade.

Salento
29-02-20, 04:52
I see the new Polacco T-Z19945.

and in the previous map, I have two matches in that area.

https://i.imgur.com/G7forYj.jpg

torzio
29-02-20, 05:10
no change, everything is still the same, even after the y111 upgrade.

is the new Z19945 related to, or with the same surname as the other CT samples ?

not related to me.....he only sits with brooks and myself in yfull...........I am equally separated by these 2...........although brooks and the Belgium sample are 1 step from me in ftdna while the pole is no where to be seen

I placed the map because you presented it in the past and I thought he was linked to you


below is my map
https://i.postimg.cc/rmTgdt8y/my-map-2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

I put their older surnames in blue

red = exact
orange = 1 step away

chit chats.....

petrov and Viselli ....zero
benedetto........originally from Pesaro moved to Friuli married a german and moved to apulia
Mozetti .....originally from trentino....moved to eastern friuli/slovenia
Wolff ........chatted with no results, he thinks they where always along the rhine or saarland
bernot......originally from Gorizia....moved to spanish Netherlands to make cannons for the spanish netherlands army


If you want the 4 americans......they are in 3 southern states ............surnames are hill, Jones and Reddick
1 x Reddick is a hessian original surname Radich .....blacksmith
2 x Jones = cornish/welsh origins and ancestor had slaves
3 x Hill = scottish origins .......raised horses for the confederates no slaves

I am missing from map for some reason ....Curtiss, Frush, Brooks, and the irish guy which was here not long ago , I think his surname was Walsh ( most of these are in yfull with me , but only brooks sits exactly with me )

Salento
29-02-20, 05:27
according to the FTDNA map, the Polacco is definitely Z19945.

torzio
29-02-20, 05:35
according to the FTDNA map, the Polacco is definitely Z19945.

yes confirmed also in Yfull ..............

torzio
29-02-20, 05:43
@ salento

others which are zero away from me in ftdna are surnames
Scales .............South germany ( baden )
Atherholt ..........Cornwall
Di Chiara ...........Molise italy
Brennan ............York England
Gei ............Belluno Italy

do you have any of these ?


...................................
1 step away are ....see below
Hoff ....Bavarian
Fiedler ......north tyrol
Bowen......welsh
The spaniard from cuba who we chat with here
Perry the portuguese
Parker from England
Rossi from Grado friuli
and 3 x hill from darlington south carolina ...........IIRC , not related to Hill family above

Salento
29-02-20, 05:56
@ salento

others which are zero away from me in ftdna are surnames
Scales .............South germany ( baden )
Atherholt ..........Cornwall
Di Chiara ...........Molise italy
Brennan ............York England
Gei ............Belluno Italy


do you have any of these ?

no, I have Redlich (maybe related to Reddick), Bridge, Safro, Lando, Epstein, Bezerra, ...

torzio
29-02-20, 07:55
no, I have Redlich (maybe related to Reddick), Bridge, Safro, Lando, Epstein, Bezerra, ...

We have everthing different.. . There must be a lot of Z19945 out there

Salento
29-02-20, 14:59
We have everthing different.. . There must be a lot of Z19945 out there

We Tested at different Y sites/level.

maybe you’re misinterpreting my matching level.

It doesn’t say that they’re Z19945.

I get nothing after the 12 Markers, even though I paid for 111.

A message said that people needed to accept some new terms for my new y111 test matches to show up.
I guess they haven’t done yet.

torzio
29-02-20, 18:27
We Tested at different Y sites/level.

maybe you’re misinterpreting my matching level.

It doesn’t say that they’re Z19945.

I get nothing after the 12 Markers, even though I paid for 111.

A message said that people needed to accept some new terms for my new y111 test matches to show up.
I guess they haven’t done yet.

This is because ftdna seem to want to use branches that do not exist anywhere else

I recently got this message
Kit MK54443 has just joined the T Project with BigY pending,

a ftdna with starting letters MK means multi kit ( more than 1 sample )..................they are doing ( according to the ydna owners who posted me ) all of these T people...Curtiss is there and he is 4 generations split with Brooks
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour/default.aspx?section=yresults

all of these T people have Z19945 .............but I am unsure what they will give them as brooks was given a brand new snp lower than Z19945

torzio
03-03-20, 17:29
@salento

Do you use in ftdna , their partners site , Geni
I do and get the following as the only T matches

A LeClaire family from Alsace and the Hoff family below .............the oldest in their detailed family tree


Anthonius Hoff https://geni1-mhcache-com-myheritage.netdna-ssl.com/images/icn_world.gif?1550087292



Gender:
Male


Birth:
circa 1620
Heddesdorf, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany


Death:
March 04, 1677
Heddesdorf, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany




The autosomal links are less in people but seem to only concentrate only on closer "cousins" ............I have as a confirmed link a Lamia Poe ( seems like old Austrian Galicia area ) .....her line married one of my paternal relatives that moved to Morgano Veneto circa 1850

Salento
03-03-20, 20:45
@salento

Do you use in ftdna , their partners site , Geni
I do and get the following as the only T matches

A LeClaire family from Alsace and the Hoff family below .............the oldest in their detailed family tree


Anthonius Hoff https://geni1-mhcache-com-myheritage.netdna-ssl.com/images/icn_world.gif?1550087292



Gender:
Male


Birth:
circa 1620
Heddesdorf, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany


Death:
March 04, 1677
Heddesdorf, Koblenz, Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany



The autosomal links are less in people but seem to only concentrate only on closer "cousins" ............I have as a confirmed link a Lamia Poe ( seems like old Austrian Galicia area ) .....her line married one of my paternal relatives that moved to Morgano Veneto circa 1850

No, but I remember that one of my 23andme matches was a T-M70 (N. Frassanito), ...

maybe a Pugliese, his autosomal was similar to mine, and there’s a small Town in Salento with the same name.

It’s highly probable that T-M70 is not his final.

torzio
03-03-20, 20:59
No, but I remember that one of my 23andme matches was a T-M70 (N. Frassanito), ...

maybe a Pugliese, his autosomal was similar to mine, and there’s a small Town in Salento with the same name.

It’s highly probable that T-M70 is not his final.

Maybe you should try Geni at bottom of the ftdna page.....

torzio
04-03-20, 06:57
not related to me.....he only sits with brooks and myself in yfull...........I am equally separated by these 2...........although brooks and the Belgium sample are 1 step from me in ftdna while the pole is no where to be seen

I placed the map because you presented it in the past and I thought he was linked to you


below is my map
https://i.postimg.cc/rmTgdt8y/my-map-2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

I put their older surnames in blue

red = exact
orange = 1 step away

chit chats.....

petrov and Viselli ....zero
benedetto........originally from Pesaro moved to Friuli married a german and moved to apulia
Mozetti .....originally from trentino....moved to eastern friuli/slovenia
Wolff ........chatted with no results, he thinks they where always along the rhine or saarland
bernot......originally from Gorizia....moved to spanish Netherlands to make cannons for the spanish netherlands army


If you want the 4 americans......they are in 3 southern states ............surnames are hill, Jones and Reddick
1 x Reddick is a hessian original surname Radich .....blacksmith
2 x Jones = cornish/welsh origins and ancestor had slaves
3 x Hill = scottish origins .......raised horses for the confederates no slaves

I am missing from map for some reason ....Curtiss, Frush, Brooks, and the irish guy which was here not long ago , I think his surname was Walsh ( most of these are in yfull with me , but only brooks sits exactly with me )

more info on wolff line ..................came via Storo town in trentino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storo
from Giovani Balduzzi and wife Maria Montovani ...................he is T ydna ( 1 step from me )..............surprising is I have a H95a mtdna close match with a montovani woman ..............I will send my montovani friend a message to check the mtdna side

torzio
05-03-20, 07:18
T-Z19945 Brooks ..............fairfield line in attachment below

https://www.tributaries.info/ui62.htm

related to Curtis and frush families

torzio
05-03-20, 17:31
No, but I remember that one of my 23andme matches was a T-M70 (N. Frassanito), ...

maybe a Pugliese, his autosomal was similar to mine, and there’s a small Town in Salento with the same name.

It’s highly probable that T-M70 is not his final.

you are right, he is

Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677 T-CTS8862 ...............so far

torzio
05-03-20, 17:42
Jack jones ..........zero step from myself .............T-CTS933 from surname Eberhardt in South Carolina circa 1700 ...............originally from Wuetenberg Germany

another is
surname Bowen ...........1 step from myself ........T-CTS8862 from surname Mancini from circa 1700 in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescosolido

torzio
05-03-20, 17:52
I thought I mentioned the Gei family before..............oh well another contact yesterday .........from N.Gei 78 yo male ......fluent in Italian, Venetian and Austrian



Gei, Dall'Asta, Elle, Seitz ( a small list from Gei site ) ......................2 of these I have links, Gei in BDM records and Seitz in 3rd cousin 23andme match

In their tree they have two names which are linked to me......Frassetto and Puppato


also the Hintz line in the Gei family tree are from Padua province which is related to one of my paternal line that went to Morgano

All names above come from Belluno and Valle di Cadore areas of the Belluno province of Veneto region

others from southern Belluno province in town of Fonzaso which are linked to me are the
Toigo and Cemin families

As per seitz line above comes David Alexander Hill circa 1850 (North Carolina, Tennessee ) , zero step from myself, also attached to the same Seitz line .............T-CTS933

torzio
05-03-20, 18:11
I do not match Patrick on FTDNA. I'd like to contact him but I guess there would be no other way besides plastering e-mail addresses all over the place.
Any suggestions?


So, are you the Walsh associated with the Teaford family .....who originally had surname Teifer from old "austrian " town of Wassersuppen , now in Czech lands named https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemanice

torzio
05-03-20, 18:22
@ Salento

A new person in our new group in the T ftdna project

Henry Benningfield T-CTS8489

Also was in Virginia from circa 1700

origin suffolk England
Theopolis Benningfield: Arrival: Date unknown when he landed in America.
list of 1704 in Charles City Co., Va.
The family originates from the Manor of Bedingfield in Suffolk, England.

Salento
05-03-20, 19:35
@ Salento
A new person in our new group in the T ftdna project
Henry Benningfield T-CTS8489
Also was in Virginia from circa 1700
origin suffolk England
Theopolis Benningfield: Arrival: Date unknown when he landed in America.
list of 1704 in Charles City Co., Va.
The family originates from the Manor of Bedingfield in Suffolk, England.

Virginia is the State of the 1st Colony (1607 - Jamestown) and Jefferson,

It seems that the American Colonists were strong on y T ... lol

The number of y T1a... Colonists continues to grow,

People were surprised when Thomas Jefferson was found to be y T, but ... things change :)

torzio
05-03-20, 21:12
Virginia is the State of the 1st Colony (1607 - Jamestown) and Jefferson,

It seems that the American Colonists were strong on y T ... lol

The number of y T1a... Colonists continues to grow,

People were surprised when Thomas Jefferson was found to be y T, but ... things change :)

Thanks
Btw, can u check the ftdna T project under the group for pages00113.....it stares all are Z19945+
It would seem pages00113 suts also ubder Z19945, finally

Salento
05-03-20, 22:03
Thanks
Btw, can u check the ftdna T project under the group for pages00113.....it stares all are Z19945+
It would seem pages00113 suts also ubder Z19945, finally
I see it.

Does Yfull support T PAGES00113 ???

I can’t find it.

torzio
06-03-20, 01:49
I see it.

Does Yfull support T PAGES00113 ???

I can’t find it.

Yfull does not have it...but in another thread it states that 75% of this marker is yews from eastern europe

Salento
06-03-20, 02:17
Yfull does not have it...but in another thread it states that 75% of this marker is yews from eastern europe

They are 2 steps below us,

I guess their mutation must have happened after the biblical Exodus, (if true :)

torzio
06-03-20, 05:23
They are 2 steps below us,

I guess their mutation must have happened after the biblical Exodus, (if true :)

Yfull does have Pages00113

my reads for it

Reads 108
4 passes ............3 negative and 1 positive
rated unreliable



PAGES00113 / PAGE113
G
to
A
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/approvedSan.png
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/star3.gif






ChrY position (Hg19):
2713589 (+strand) ◄


ChrY position (Hg38):
2845548 (+strand)


they gave me a negative
https://i.postimg.cc/52H02bp0/113.png (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
06-03-20, 15:22
I’m negative for Pages00113 too.

Ancestral DNA Marker Pedigree

... from Homo Erectus to Pages00113



Tree Level
Marker / Branch Name
Alternative Names
Notes


1 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250247)
HomoErectus (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=HomoErectus&chromosome=Y)
hg38:21292569-T-G
Human and Denisovan diverge from ancestral allele T found in chimpanzees at this position. hg38 Ref is G.


2 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250245)
YAdam (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=YAdam&chromosome=Y)
hg38:2844421-A-G
Ancestral allele in chimpanzee is A implying this is probably a human-defining SNP for homo sapiens. hg38 Ref is G.


3 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=636)
L1085 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L1085&chromosome=Y)
2922685-T-C
Defining mutation for near-root haplogroup A0-T (aka A0'1'2'3'4). That is to say father of ALL modern Y-DNA lineages except A00. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


4 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=255)
P305 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P305&chromosome=Y)
2842113-A-G rs72625368
Defining mutation for haplogroup ISOGG branch A1. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


5 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19987)
P108 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P108&chromosome=Y)
rs761539052
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch A1b at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral. Also enumerated as hg38:13314368-C-T.


6 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5336)
L413 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L413&chromosome=Y)
PF1409 V31 rs192939307
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch BT at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


7 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17627)
M168 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M168&chromosome=Y)
PF1416 rs2032595
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CT. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


8 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=14961)
P143 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P143&chromosome=Y)
PF2587 rs4141886
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CF. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39479)
M89 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M89&chromosome=Y)
PF2746 rs2032652
Defining mutation for haplogroup F. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


10 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=10247)
F1329 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=F1329&chromosome=Y)
M3658 PF2622 YSC0001299 rs9786482
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch above GHIJK (sic). hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


11 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=6353)
M578 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M578&chromosome=Y)
F929 S6397 PF3494 S6378 rs73614810
Mutation at haplogroup branch HIJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


12 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=4029)
M523 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M523&chromosome=Y)
L15 PF3492 S137 Z4413 rs9786139
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch IJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


13 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=38375)
M9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M9&chromosome=Y)
PF5506 rs3900
Defining mutation for haplogroup K. Predecessor of haplogroups T, P, and NO. Arose about 45,000 bce. hg38 has incorrect Ref versus ancestral allele.


14 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=9850)
L298 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L298&chromosome=Y)
P326 rs372687543
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch LT (aka K1) for ISOGG and FTDNA. See also CTS1381 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS1381&Chromosome=Y) which YFull uses on this branch.


15 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17996)
M184 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M184&chromosome=Y)
Page34 PAGES00034 rs20320
Defining mutation for haplogroup T (aka K1b) at ISOGG. Arose about 40,000 bce. Britain's DNA labeled this branch: Babylon.


16 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=16638)
L490 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L490&chromosome=Y)
rs2040607



17 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39272)
M70 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M70&chromosome=Y)
Page46 PAGES00046 PF5662 rs2032672



18 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335674)
Z19859 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19859&chromosome=Y)
rs957337864



19 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=35393)
L131 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L131&chromosome=Y)
rs2215828



20 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=24921)
L446 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L446&chromosome=Y)
rs765328997



21 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335212)
Y6055 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Y6055&chromosome=Y)
FGC22988 Z19905



22 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5944)
CTS933 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS933&chromosome=Y)
rs774625164



23 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=41911)
CTS10803 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS10803&chromosome=Y)
rs779515027



24 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335675)
Z19939 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19939&chromosome=Y)




25 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=44439)
CTS11984 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS11984&chromosome=Y)
rs766932353



26 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19160)
CTS3767 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS3767&chromosome=Y)
rs755157880
YFull shows parent as CTS933 as of 4/11/2019.


27 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=30758)
CTS8489 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8489&chromosome=Y)
rs746154125



28 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=31667)
CTS8862 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8862&chromosome=Y)
rs773515931



29 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1138946)
Z19945 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19945&chromosome=Y)
rs755456818
equiv to CTS8489


30 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1741851)
FT62750 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=FT62750&chromosome=Y)




31 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=274)
Page113 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Page113&chromosome=Y)
T-Page113 PAGES00113 rs72625369




https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=274

Salento
06-03-20, 15:59
Ancestral DNA Marker Pedigree

:thinking: ... a little more to the LEFT, and I could have turned into a Chimpanzee :grin:

... Home Erectus to T-Z19945 (+ FT62750 - BY64684)



Tree Level
Marker / Branch Name
Alternative Names
Notes


1 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250247)
HomoErectus (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=HomoErectus&chromosome=Y)
hg38:21292569-T-G
Human and Denisovan diverge from ancestral allele T found in chimpanzees at this position. hg38 Ref is G.


2 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250245)
YAdam (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=YAdam&chromosome=Y)
hg38:2844421-A-G
Ancestral allele in chimpanzee is A implying this is probably a human-defining SNP for homo sapiens. hg38 Ref is G.


3 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=636)
L1085 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L1085&chromosome=Y)
2922685-T-C
Defining mutation for near-root haplogroup A0-T (aka A0'1'2'3'4). That is to say father of ALL modern Y-DNA lineages except A00. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


4 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=255)
P305 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P305&chromosome=Y)
2842113-A-G rs72625368
Defining mutation for haplogroup ISOGG branch A1. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


5 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19987)
P108 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P108&chromosome=Y)
rs761539052
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch A1b at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral. Also enumerated as hg38:13314368-C-T.


6 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5336)
L413 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L413&chromosome=Y)
PF1409 V31 rs192939307
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch BT at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


7 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17627)
M168 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M168&chromosome=Y)
PF1416 rs2032595
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CT. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


8 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=14961)
P143 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P143&chromosome=Y)
PF2587 rs4141886
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CF. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39479)
M89 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M89&chromosome=Y)
PF2746 rs2032652
Defining mutation for haplogroup F. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


10 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=10247)
F1329 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=F1329&chromosome=Y)
M3658 PF2622 YSC0001299 rs9786482
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch above GHIJK (sic). hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


11 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=6353)
M578 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M578&chromosome=Y)
F929 S6397 PF3494 S6378 rs73614810
Mutation at haplogroup branch HIJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


12 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=4029)
M523 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M523&chromosome=Y)
L15 PF3492 S137 Z4413 rs9786139
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch IJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


13 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=38375)
M9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M9&chromosome=Y)
PF5506 rs3900
Defining mutation for haplogroup K. Predecessor of haplogroups T, P, and NO. Arose about 45,000 bce. hg38 has incorrect Ref versus ancestral allele.


14 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=9850)
L298 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L298&chromosome=Y)
P326 rs372687543
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch LT (aka K1) for ISOGG and FTDNA. See also CTS1381 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS1381&Chromosome=Y) which YFull uses on this branch.


15 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17996)
M184 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M184&chromosome=Y)
Page34 PAGES00034 rs20320
Defining mutation for haplogroup T (aka K1b) at ISOGG. Arose about 40,000 bce. Britain's DNA labeled this branch: Babylon.


16 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=16638)
L490 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L490&chromosome=Y)
rs2040607



17 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39272)
M70 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M70&chromosome=Y)
Page46 PAGES00046 PF5662 rs2032672



18 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335674)
Z19859 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19859&chromosome=Y)
rs957337864



19 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=35393)
L131 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L131&chromosome=Y)
rs2215828



20 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=24921)
L446 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L446&chromosome=Y)
rs765328997



21 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335212)
Y6055 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Y6055&chromosome=Y)
FGC22988 Z19905



22 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5944)
CTS933 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS933&chromosome=Y)
rs774625164



23 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=41911)
CTS10803 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS10803&chromosome=Y)
rs779515027



24 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335675)
Z19939 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19939&chromosome=Y)




25 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=44439)
CTS11984 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS11984&chromosome=Y)
rs766932353



26 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19160)
CTS3767 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS3767&chromosome=Y)
rs755157880
YFull shows parent as CTS933 as of 4/11/2019.


27 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=30758)
CTS8489 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8489&chromosome=Y)
rs746154125



28 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=31667)
CTS8862 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8862&chromosome=Y)
rs773515931



29 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1138946)
Z19945 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19945&chromosome=Y)
rs755456818
equiv to CTS8489


30 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1741851)
FT62750 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=FT62750&chromosome=Y)




31 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1462172)
BY64684 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=BY64684&chromosome=Y)
T-BY64684



https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?snp=BY64684&Chromosome=Y&snp2=&DB=

torzio
06-03-20, 17:19
Ancestral DNA Marker Pedigree

:thinking: ... a little more to the LEFT, and I could have turned into a Chimpanzee :grin:

... Home Erectus to T-Z19945 (+ FT62750 - BY64684)



Tree Level
Marker / Branch Name
Alternative Names
Notes


1 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250247)
HomoErectus (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=HomoErectus&chromosome=Y)
hg38:21292569-T-G
Human and Denisovan diverge from ancestral allele T found in chimpanzees at this position. hg38 Ref is G.


2 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1250245)
YAdam (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=YAdam&chromosome=Y)
hg38:2844421-A-G
Ancestral allele in chimpanzee is A implying this is probably a human-defining SNP for homo sapiens. hg38 Ref is G.


3 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=636)
L1085 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L1085&chromosome=Y)
2922685-T-C
Defining mutation for near-root haplogroup A0-T (aka A0'1'2'3'4). That is to say father of ALL modern Y-DNA lineages except A00. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


4 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=255)
P305 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P305&chromosome=Y)
2842113-A-G rs72625368
Defining mutation for haplogroup ISOGG branch A1. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


5 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19987)
P108 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P108&chromosome=Y)
rs761539052
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch A1b at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral. Also enumerated as hg38:13314368-C-T.


6 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5336)
L413 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L413&chromosome=Y)
PF1409 V31 rs192939307
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch BT at ISOGG. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


7 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17627)
M168 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M168&chromosome=Y)
PF1416 rs2032595
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CT. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


8 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=14961)
P143 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=P143&chromosome=Y)
PF2587 rs4141886
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch CF. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39479)
M89 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M89&chromosome=Y)
PF2746 rs2032652
Defining mutation for haplogroup F. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


10 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=10247)
F1329 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=F1329&chromosome=Y)
M3658 PF2622 YSC0001299 rs9786482
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch above GHIJK (sic). hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


11 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=6353)
M578 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M578&chromosome=Y)
F929 S6397 PF3494 S6378 rs73614810
Mutation at haplogroup branch HIJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


12 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=4029)
M523 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M523&chromosome=Y)
L15 PF3492 S137 Z4413 rs9786139
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch IJK. hg38 Ref does not match ancestral allele value.


13 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=38375)
M9 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M9&chromosome=Y)
PF5506 rs3900
Defining mutation for haplogroup K. Predecessor of haplogroups T, P, and NO. Arose about 45,000 bce. hg38 has incorrect Ref versus ancestral allele.


14 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=9850)
L298 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L298&chromosome=Y)
P326 rs372687543
Defining mutation for haplogroup branch LT (aka K1) for ISOGG and FTDNA. See also CTS1381 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS1381&Chromosome=Y) which YFull uses on this branch.


15 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=17996)
M184 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M184&chromosome=Y)
Page34 PAGES00034 rs20320
Defining mutation for haplogroup T (aka K1b) at ISOGG. Arose about 40,000 bce. Britain's DNA labeled this branch: Babylon.


16 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=16638)
L490 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L490&chromosome=Y)
rs2040607



17 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=39272)
M70 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=M70&chromosome=Y)
Page46 PAGES00046 PF5662 rs2032672



18 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335674)
Z19859 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19859&chromosome=Y)
rs957337864



19 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=35393)
L131 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L131&chromosome=Y)
rs2215828



20 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=24921)
L446 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=L446&chromosome=Y)
rs765328997



21 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335212)
Y6055 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Y6055&chromosome=Y)
FGC22988 Z19905



22 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=5944)
CTS933 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS933&chromosome=Y)
rs774625164



23 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=41911)
CTS10803 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS10803&chromosome=Y)
rs779515027



24 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1335675)
Z19939 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19939&chromosome=Y)




25 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=44439)
CTS11984 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS11984&chromosome=Y)
rs766932353



26 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=19160)
CTS3767 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS3767&chromosome=Y)
rs755157880
YFull shows parent as CTS933 as of 4/11/2019.


27 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=30758)
CTS8489 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8489&chromosome=Y)
rs746154125



28 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=31667)
CTS8862 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=CTS8862&chromosome=Y)
rs773515931



29 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1138946)
Z19945 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=Z19945&chromosome=Y)
rs755456818
equiv to CTS8489


30 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1741851)
FT62750 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=FT62750&chromosome=Y)




31 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?RecordID=1462172)
BY64684 (https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?snp=BY64684&chromosome=Y)
T-BY64684



https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnapedigree.asp?snp=BY64684&Chromosome=Y&snp2=&DB=



I am 100% negative for FT62750 and BY64684..................zero out of 5 stars


this is the only thing I have after Z19945
BY143483 level T-Z19945*.....terminal


and with the polish person we only share
CTS10538, CTS9984, CTS8862, Z19944, Z19953, BY143483, Z19945, Z19946, PH3117, Y26649, CTS8489, Z19949, Z19951


and yfull changed my CTS8862 to CTS9984 as my main even though it is equivalent to CTS8862..................this is the snp before Z19945

torzio
06-03-20, 17:33
I believe now, that Z19945 is a main central distribution and it existed between modern moldova/upper romania and as far west as the Upper rhine river/upper danube river lands

cts1848 seems to be only around lower rhine area and west of this and this snp is not the main split snp of our line

Z19945 did not go into western europe from the sea ............so we can count southern anatolia out of any estimation

Salento
06-03-20, 17:45
FT62750 and BY64684 are relatively new,

no option available for single snp test at FTDNA, and I can’t find them at Yseq.

bigsnake49
07-03-20, 01:11
I will ask at work...there are a couple of greeks who know where this tradition started .............dates not important....its like the greek easter, changes dates yearly depending on how many full moons have passed after a certain date
Generally, the date for Easter is set on the first full moon after both the Spring Equinox and Passover.

Salento
07-03-20, 02:27
Generally, the date for Easter is set on the first full moon after both the Spring Equinox and Passover.

Traditionally (at least in Salento), the day after Easter (Pasquetta) is considered the 1st day of the year when the brave or the crazy :) can go swimming, and to slowly start going to the beach (weather permitting).

Salento = Sole, Mare, e Vento
(the Sun, the Sea, and the Wind)

bigsnake49
07-03-20, 02:56
Traditionally (at least in Salento), the day after Easter (Pasquetta) is considered the 1st day of the year when the brave or the crazy :) can go swimming, and to slowly start going to the beach (weather permitting).

Salento = Sole, Mare, e Vento
(the Sun, the Sea, and the Wind)

It can get pretty windy in the Ionian and Adriatic Sea.

torzio
09-03-20, 18:50
¡Ay, caramba!

These are two different Patrick Walsh's.

My 2nd great grandfather Patrick Walsh is the one listed on the ftdna t project in the z19945 group. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1061/1924/products/Thumbs_Up_Hand_Sign_Emoji_large.png?v=1480481047

I have the following as my top matches in Ftdna after family members ................are you saying you are part of this patrick Walsh or not part

https://i.postimg.cc/Vk3B0Bhn/p-walsh.png



(https://postimages.org/)First 3 are one family on my mothers side
Lello is paternal from trentino
Miotto from veneto
you or not ????????????
Neuman from trentino
poe from austria
Tax .............new and dutch .......no idea or contact
Hintz from morgan veneto married into a paternal cousin side

Can we clear this up as I am still unsure ................I also have a patrick Walsh in Yfull near my sample

torzio
16-03-20, 19:31
Yfull has just given me a new branch under Z19945
with a Pole and an ancient trentino/South Tyrol sample
Because there are 3 different non family samples it has been accepted so it is
T - BY143483


https://i.postimg.cc/7P9dNw0q/new-march2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
17-03-20, 19:11
I knew from last year that Z19945 would be a central snp area, where many branches would split off from...............I expect to see more splits/branches from z19945 going forward

Huracan
19-03-20, 03:25
@Torzio, how do you know Bernot was originally from Gorizia? I thought they were Belgians in the Spanish Netherlands that then went back to Spain with the army after the War of the Spanish Succession...

@Salento, I saw you had a Bezerra match on FTDNA - does it say where they are from?

To be complete, here are my Y matches on FTDNA:
12 markers
0 Rodrigues Pereira (might just be Pereira): Horta, Faial, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss: Stratford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Brooks: Startford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Costa: Ilha do Pico, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Jones (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss (related to above Curtiss)
-1 Jones: Charleston, SC (T-M70)
-1 Pret: Tres, Trentino (T-Z19945)
25 markers
-1 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)
-2 Costa (T-M70)
-2 Israel (T-M70)
-2 Frush (3) and Froshour (all T-M70)
-2 Lemas: Azores (T-M70)
37 markers
-4 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)

The closest individuals to me on the FTDNA T group are Rodrigues Pereira and the related (or multiple-tested) Bernot.

Salento
19-03-20, 03:41
@Huracan I don’t have a Bezerra in my matches anymore, it’s gone.

torzio
19-03-20, 03:52
@Torzio, how do you know Bernot was originally from Gorizia? I thought they were Belgians in the Spanish Netherlands that then went back to Spain with the army after the War of the Spanish Succession...
@Salento, I saw you had a Bezerra match on FTDNA - does it say where they are from?
To be complete, here are my Y matches on FTDNA:
12 markers
0 Rodrigues Pereira (might just be Pereira): Horta, Faial, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss: Stratford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Brooks: Startford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Costa: Ilha do Pico, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Jones (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss (related to above Curtiss)
-1 Jones: Charleston, SC (T-M70)
-1 Pret: Tres, Trentino (T-Z19945)
25 markers
-1 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)
-2 Costa (T-M70)
-2 Israel (T-M70)
-2 Frush (3) and Froshour (all T-M70)
-2 Lemas: Azores (T-M70)
37 markers
-4 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)
The closest individuals to me on the FTDNA T group are Rodrigues Pereira and the related (or multiple-tested) Bernot.
We shared letters....there are 3 brothers who tested.....anyway.....he said gorizia, they went to spanish netherlands, later where cannon makers for tge spanush netherlands army....and when they lost, some members moved to coastal north spain.......why
Frush, freshour, curtiss and brooks are all related. ......i have contact with the woman who runs all of them
Periera name is parry now, from iirc azorres originally.
I also have 2 x jones matches zero step...
I am surprised you have no 3 x hill matches, or mozetti.....
What about italian matches,,,,,,,benedetto and rossi from coastal adriatic sea

torzio
19-03-20, 04:22
"Froschauer: A notable surname 1494 Augsburg, Bavaria, Germany
Anglicized: Freshour, Frushour, Frush, Froshour
We have learned that Froschauer originated as a toponymic name, one that reflects a connection between the initial bearer and a place of habitation.Research indicates that there were eight settlements called "Froschau: in Bavaria Germany."

torzio
20-03-20, 20:32
Place my DNA in geneanet 6 weeks ago ( a french site which has a lot of italians ) and just received

3 x ydna matches ...................this is something new from geneanet .............I from my family have only placed my dna in this site

surname - Bedin from Pederobba in Veneto ..................says 3rd cousin

surname - Gris from Belluno In Veneto ................says 4th cousin

surname - Tighe also written as Tighesso from Lueg Austria ...................surname Tighe looks irish to me , town in Austria , but near Belluno in Italy ,........but its 5th cousin , so I will ignore it

torzio
01-04-20, 00:28
My ftdna site ydna and BigY , has been changed from T-Z19945 to T-BY143483 ......a branch of Z19945

other branches under Z19945 are
CTS1848
and
FT62750

Huracan
02-04-20, 00:56
We shared letters....there are 3 brothers who tested.....anyway.....he said gorizia, they went to spanish netherlands, later where cannon makers for tge spanush netherlands army....and when they lost, some members moved to coastal north spain.......why
Frush, freshour, curtiss and brooks are all related. ......i have contact with the woman who runs all of them
Periera name is parry now, from iirc azorres originally.
I also have 2 x jones matches zero step...
I am surprised you have no 3 x hill matches, or mozetti.....
What about italian matches,,,,,,,benedetto and rossi from coastal adriatic sea

Do you know the original surname of these Bernot individuals whose line is from Gorizia?

torzio
02-04-20, 01:12
Do you know the original surname of these Bernot individuals whose line is from Gorizia?
I will check later....at home.........but chevk page 2 or 3 of this post
They are from hainaut belgium and lorraine france.....county of vermandois

Salento
02-04-20, 15:49
My ftdna site ydna and BigY , has been changed from T-Z19945 to T-BY143483 ......a branch of Z19945

other branches under Z19945 are
CTS1848
and
FT62750

... ordered the B, not option to get the F, I’m negative for the C :)

torzio
02-04-20, 18:10
... ordered the B, not option to get the F, I’m negative for the C :)

cryptic note.......no idea what you are saying

Gareth asked Ftdna to add BY143483 to the ftdna and BigY tree a week ago..............so I sit with a Pomeranian Pole and an ancient sardinian found in trentino italy

https://i.postimg.cc/yNFYTb1c/new-split-for-z11945.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
02-04-20, 18:19
my new yreport ...............the negatives ( once in red ) are no longer shown in the report

https://i.postimg.cc/sDNXfWHQ/yreport-april2020.png (https://postimg.cc/4mpZBYgs)

torzio
02-04-20, 19:22
@Torzio, how do you know Bernot was originally from Gorizia? I thought they were Belgians in the Spanish Netherlands that then went back to Spain with the army after the War of the Spanish Succession...

@Salento, I saw you had a Bezerra match on FTDNA - does it say where they are from?

To be complete, here are my Y matches on FTDNA:
12 markers
0 Rodrigues Pereira (might just be Pereira): Horta, Faial, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss: Stratford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Brooks: Startford, Connecticut, U.S. (T-BY64684)
-1 Costa: Ilha do Pico, Azores (T-M70)
-1 Jones (T-M70)
-1 Curtiss (related to above Curtiss)
-1 Jones: Charleston, SC (T-M70)
-1 Pret: Tres, Trentino (T-Z19945)
25 markers
-1 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)
-2 Costa (T-M70)
-2 Israel (T-M70)
-2 Frush (3) and Froshour (all T-M70)
-2 Lemas: Azores (T-M70)
37 markers
-4 Rodrigues Pereira (T-M70)

The closest individuals to me on the FTDNA T group are Rodrigues Pereira and the related (or multiple-tested) Bernot.


note that Brooks ( ancient surname was Brucke from Hanover germany ) and Curtiss are related back via 4 generations back and both are related the the frush and Froshour , German family line

I am split further apart from yourself with a pomerian Pole and an ancient Sardo/Trentino sample ........but the pole and I share links with the Brooks, Curtiss, Frush and Froshour family tree
The pole closer to them than myself by 2 extra snp's

Huracan
02-04-20, 20:16
note that Brooks ( ancient surname was Brucke from Hanover germany ) and Curtiss are related back via 4 generations back and both are related the the frush and Froshour , German family line

I am split further apart from yourself with a pomerian Pole and an ancient Sardo/Trentino sample ........but the pole and I share links with the Brooks, Curtiss, Frush and Froshour family tree
The pole closer to them than myself by 2 extra snp's

What is this ancient Sardo/Trentino sample you speak of? Is it the Cagliari sample on Yfull #ERS256892?

Salento
02-04-20, 20:19
My ftdna site ydna and BigY , has been changed from T-Z19945 to T-BY143483 ......a branch of Z19945

other branches under Z19945 are
CTS1848
and
FT62750


... ordered the B, not option to get the F, I’m negative for the C :)


If you look at the initials of the SNPs you posted and compare them to the single letters I posted You'll understand, Maybe!

torzio
02-04-20, 20:30
What is this ancient Sardo/Trentino sample you speak of? Is it the Cagliari sample on Yfull #ERS256892?


yes

he is as per Yfull




https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/person.pngERS256892


https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/i-node.pngT-BY143483 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY143483)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/y-search2.png (https://www.yfull.com/snp/matches/#inline_ERS256892)

torzio
02-04-20, 20:32
If you look at the initials of the SNPs you posted and compare them to the single letters I posted You'll understand, Maybe!

ok

I got the B for free

i am negative for the C and the F

torzio
02-04-20, 20:33
Yfull has just given me a new branch under Z19945
with a Pole and an ancient trentino/South Tyrol sample
Because there are 3 different non family samples it has been accepted so it is
T - BY143483


https://i.postimg.cc/7P9dNw0q/new-march2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

id...YF71651 = N184890 in ftdna

torzio
05-04-20, 20:27
all the branches breaking off from snp Z19945


Since FT62750 has the most private snp with it......I see in time further splits from it ....................but for mine , maybe only one or two split offs


https://i.postimg.cc/P5rRTX8f/branches-of-z19945.png (https://postimages.org/)

Huracan
14-04-20, 06:18
yes

he is as per Yfull




https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/person.pngERS256892


https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/i-node.pngT-BY143483 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY143483)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/y-search2.png (https://www.yfull.com/snp/matches/#inline_ERS256892)



I saw elsewhere on the forum that this sample was from the "Sardinia Study", does anyone know the paper or dataset the sample was reported?

torzio
14-04-20, 07:17
I saw elsewhere on the forum that this sample was from the "Sardinia Study", does anyone know the paper or dataset the sample was reported?

Yes he is a sardinian

here is his positive snp that I could find
CTS10538, CTS9984, BY143483, CTS8862, Z1995, Z19944, Z19945, Z19946, Y26649, Z6596/FGC1069, M8990/S3846, M11810, PF6526, Y111, CTS8489, Z19949, Z19951, FGC28749, M8325, Z4924


he matches a Pole from Pomerania or Lublin
the pole snp
CTS10538, CTS9984, BY143483, CTS8862, Z19944, Z19953, Z19945, Z19946, Y26649, Z6596/FGC1069, M8990/S3846, M11810, PF6526, Y111, CTS8489, Z19949, Z19951, FGC28749, M8325, Z4924

both match myself ............


i cannot recall if it was this

Contu D, Morelli L, Santoni F, Foster JW, Francalacci P, Cucca F (2008). "Y-chromosome based evidence for pre-neolithic origin of the genetically homogeneous but diverse Sardinian population: inference for association scans" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2174525). PLOS ONE.

or


Francalacci P, Morelli L, Angius A, Berutti R, Reinier F, Atzeni R, Pilu R, Busonero F, Maschio A, Zara I, Sanna D, Useli A, Urru MF, Marcelli M, Cusano R, Oppo M, Zoledziewska M, Pitzalis M, Deidda F, Porcu E, Poddie F, Kang HM, Lyons R, Tarrier B, Gresham JB, Li B, Tofanelli S, Alonso S, Dei M, Lai S, Mulas A, Whalen MB, Uzzau S, Jones C, Schlessinger D, Abecasis GR, Sanna S, Sidore C, Cucca F (2013). "Low-pass DNA sequencing of 1200 Sardinians reconstructs European Y-chromosome phylogeny" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5500864).


.................................................. .................................................

on another note
The pole matches closer to Brooks than myself in Yfull.......I am second, then Walloon person ( who states he is a NE Italian in the 15th century ), then the Sardo

The Pole stated to me that, his ancestors where in Germany and/or Netherlands in the 16th century ..................we have spoken on many occasions ............................we might match another in the future from either germany of Tchekia (Poland ) or did he say Czech

Salento
14-04-20, 21:44
My ftdna site ydna and BigY , has been changed from T-Z19945 to T-BY143483 ......a branch of Z19945

other branches under Z19945 are
CTS1848
and
FT62750

... Results:

BY143483 G+ (Positive) !!!
Position 20996816

If the hierarchy is correct, I should be negative for FT62750 by default,

That makes BY143483 my new Final !!!

torzio
14-04-20, 22:18
... Results:

BY143483 G+ (Positive) !!!
Position 20996816

If the hierarchy is correct, I should be negative for FT62750 by default,

That makes BY143483 my new Final !!!

Let Gareth know ...............he will then divide the ftdna branch we are in

Salento
14-04-20, 23:00
Let Gareth know ...............he will then divide the ftdna branch we are in

... done ... :)

torzio
15-04-20, 22:16
... done ... :)

Gareth has updated the ftdna T project

our line looks more and more central Europe ......Upper Rhine area or Upper Danube area ..............my guess .............knowing the Pole's ancestors ( who are not Poles ) as well as all other branches that shoot off Z19945

Salento
15-04-20, 23:33
Gareth has updated the ftdna T project

our line looks more and more central Europe ......Upper Rhine area or Upper Danube area ..............my guess .............knowing the Pole's ancestors ( who are not Poles ) as well as all other branches that shoot off Z19945

We’ve been moved, we have our own spot :satisfied:

torzio
16-04-20, 00:51
We’ve been moved, we have our own spot :satisfied:

I have contacted Alperjager about the tree ...............I think he works with Gareth

Huracan
16-04-20, 17:33
@Salento to clarify, your paternal line was from where again? Lecce, Italy?

Salento
16-04-20, 19:32
@Salento to clarify, your paternal line was from where again? Lecce, Italy?
Yes :) on a 5 km radius ... many generations, and we’re not aware of any other place.

Huracan
16-04-20, 21:27
I see another sample in your FTDNA T Project group for BY143483: N184890. No info listed for that kit. Could that be the Polish sample from Full?

torzio
16-04-20, 21:33
I see another sample in your FTDNA T Project group for BY143483: N184890. No info listed for that kit. Could that be the Polish sample from Full?

yes...see post 729

we chat in messenger and he states his ancestors are german ...........he thinks thuringia

he lives in pomerania or what is in yfull

https://www.britannica.com/place/Zachodniopomorskie

(https://www.britannica.com/place/Zachodniopomorskie)
below is the older name of the province

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szczecin



(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szczecin)Early history states
Tacitus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus) located the East Germanic tribe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples) of the Rugians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugians) in the area around Szczecin, as did modern historians. The Rugians left during the Great Migrations in the 5th century AD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD).

IIRC ...........the Rugians kicked the Lombards out of Austria/Vienna area ............the Lombards then went to Italy......I need to revisit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugii

torzio
16-04-20, 22:08
@salento

There you go Rugians linked to Ostrogoths , who went to Italy .............

Your a sick puppy with that facemask on your avatar , ROFL

Salento
16-04-20, 23:35
@salento

There you go Rugians linked to Ostrogoths , who went to Italy .............

Your a sick puppy with that facemask on your avatar , ROFL

It’s possible, but don’t mind me asking :) how do you come up with that conclusion.

... the avatar is a reflection ... wearing a mask outside is now a requirement, we have many Covid-19 dead in my Town. and in my State in general, ...

torzio
17-04-20, 01:49
It’s possible, but don’t mind me asking :) how do you come up with that conclusion.

... the avatar is a reflection ... wearing a mask outside is now a requirement, we have many Covid-19 dead in my Town. and in my State in general, ...


Its is my conclusion ..............i have to revisit the net for the friulian town of Cormons, a place where retired romans settled who where of , ......either Heruli or Rugii stock enlisted by the Empire to serve as Foderati, ...i cannot remember exactly

Salento
17-04-20, 09:13
@Torzio ... Do you know the letters denomination for BY143483 ?

... I mean, ... the T1a2..... thing :) lol

torzio
17-04-20, 09:16
Do you know the letters denomination for BY143483 ?

... I mean, ... the T1a2..... thing :) lol

BY means it came from ftdna BigY

Salento
17-04-20, 09:26
BY means it came from ftdna BigY

and the alternative name with the T1a2........ ?

torzio
17-04-20, 12:21
and the alternative name with the T1a2........ ?

Not sure what you are getting at.......both i do not believe on any modern national term pre medieval period

Salento
17-04-20, 14:18
Not sure what you are getting at.......both i do not believe on any modern national term pre medieval period

Not sure you understood at all, .... I was asking about the alternative code-name of the SNP BY143483

... for example:

_ CTS8489 = T1a2a1a1a
__ Z19945 = T1a2a1a1a2
___ BY143483 = T1a2????