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torzio
17-04-20, 18:55
Not sure you understood at all, .... I was asking about the alternative code-name of the SNP BY143483

... for example:

_ CTS8489 = T1a2a1a1a
__ Z19945 = T1a2a1a1a2
___ BY143483 = T1a2????


Different companies use different markers, like

Isogg for us ( only to 2018 ) T1a2b1a1b


ftdna for our branch has T1a2a1a1a2b

so because it is a Ftdna find which yfull agrees , then it is the ftdna one

I never really cared after the first 4 digits

Salento
17-04-20, 21:56
Different companies use different markers, like

Isogg for us ( only to 2018 ) T1a2b1a1b

ftdna for our branch has T1a2a1a1a2b

so because it is a Ftdna find which yfull agrees , then it is the ftdna one

I never really cared after the first 4 digits

Thank you, :) perfect !!!

It took a couple of tries to get the right answer, but we finally understand each other LOL

torzio
17-04-20, 22:08
Thank you, :) perfect !!!

It took a couple of tries to get the right answer, but we finally understand each other LOL

must be an Adriatic thingy ....north to south............or is it a USA .v. Australia failure to communicate

Now to check on this Pomeranian/Thuringian same branch person to us ..........a quick look suggest he is closer to you than I ......I will recheck the STR after

regards

Salento
23-04-20, 06:43
T-Z19945
Z19945+


┣━T-BY143483
BY143483+


┗━T-CTS1848
CTS1848/A15857-



https://i.imgur.com/xBXCGKH.jpg

Salento
23-04-20, 16:27
... as reference, general Geno 2.0

2017 Genographic Project y Haplogroup vs 2020 Yseq final:

https://i.imgur.com/EwpJxMc.jpg

torzio
23-04-20, 19:05
... as reference, general Geno 2.0

2017 Genographic Project y Haplogroup vs 2020 Yseq final:

https://i.imgur.com/EwpJxMc.jpg

are you saying Geno knew your ydna marker in 2017 ?

I have
1st Tuscan ................54%
2nd Germanic............46%

Salento
23-04-20, 20:10
@Torzio

no, I’m not saying that :)

I was pointing out the marker NatGeo gave me 3 years ago, versus what I ended up being.

torzio
23-04-20, 21:51
@Torzio

no, I’m not saying that :)

I was pointing out the marker NatGeo gave me 3 years ago, versus what I ended up being.

Ok

They gave me the same Ydna as yourself
and
my correct mtdna of H95a

torzio
24-04-20, 08:19
Finally found my link with the Steiner family of trentino ................via myHeritage, over a year of searching.........matches myself, father and sons, so I assume it is a ydna match, but will write to them.

All from town called Barbian , Trentino-alto-adage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbian

The Leiss spelling below, ....in Italy is spelt Less and i have some of these............the one I was looking for > Steiner, the one with 4 segments matching

.................
Maria Leiss

Gerhard Hafner's direct ancestor (6 generations)

Birth: Feb 17 1740



Mathias Leiss

Gerhard Hafner's direct ancestor (7 generations)

Birth: 1714


above looks like father and daughter



.....................................
Michael Steiner

Gerhard Hafner's direct ancestor (6 generations)

Birth: 1755


Maria Gafriller

Gerhard Hafner's direct ancestor (6 generations)

Birth: 1759

above looks like husband and wife

torzio
24-04-20, 08:24
Owner of the above post also has surname Larcher

I have that surname in Val di Non Trentino site

http://valdinonusa.com/index.php

torzio
26-04-20, 18:45
Yfull new date range for T-BY143483

note that yfull does not use the standard year 1950 as other do............it seems to use year 2000

so, T-Z19945 is TMRCA 3300

T-BY143483 is TMRCA 3000 ...............so circa 1000BC ..............drill down and they have anywhere between 950Bc to 1200BC is when it formed .............it's initial date of 450BC is an error

Kelley Caquelin
27-04-20, 08:52
Hello, I am T-CTS1848, FTDNA 917435. I am wondering if I should get the y-700 and I currently have the 111. Any suggestions?

M184, TL490, M70, Z19859, L131, L446, Y6055, CTS99, CTS10803, Z19939, Z19939, CTS11984, CTS8489, CTS8862, Z19945, CTS1848 is my Tree but I need to purchase the M184 SNP pack or the y-700?

torzio
27-04-20, 19:54
Hello, I am T-CTS1848, FTDNA 917435. I am wondering if I should get the y-700 and I currently have the 111. Any suggestions?

M184, TL490, M70, Z19859, L131, L446, Y6055, CTS99, CTS10803, Z19939, Z19939, CTS11984, CTS8489, CTS8862, Z19945, CTS1848 is my Tree but I need to purchase the M184 SNP pack or the y-700?



you belong to T group .............T1a2

you will fit in the second group of the ftdna T project of the T1a2 group, the one with CTS1848

Write to Gareth [email protected]
He runs the ftdna T project and will place you once you join the project ......................he can guide you ...............but I doubt you need to do much as snp CTS1848 is very much it for your line

In regards to us
we both have Z19945 .............your line split to CTS1848 and mine to BY143483

The latest I have seen is that Z19945 formed around the modern borders of Austrian and Czech lands in the late Bronze age

torzio
28-04-20, 04:12
you belong to T group .............T1a2

you will fit in the second group of the ftdna T project of the T1a2 group, the one with CTS1848

Write to Gareth [email protected]
He runs the ftdna T project and will place you once you join the project ......................he can guide you ...............but I doubt you need to do much as snp CTS1848 is very much it for your line

In regards to us
we both have Z19945 .............your line split to CTS1848 and mine to BY143483

The latest I have seen is that Z19945 formed around the modern borders of Austrian and Czech lands in the late Bronze age

@Kelley

is this below , your ancestor?

Jacob Gockley, 1799 - 1862 (https://www.myheritage.com/names/jacob_gockley#)

Jacob Gockley was born on June 29 1799, in Lancaster County Pennsylvania, USA, to Sebastian Caquelin Gacklie and Anna Maria Caquelin Gacklie (born Hoffman).
Sebastian was born on March 26 1761, in Lancaster County Pennsylvania, USA.

and /or

all of these in the link ..............basically in Alsace ( a french/german ) area

https://www.mytrees.com/names/Event/Year/1/CAQUELIN

Kelley Caquelin
01-05-20, 04:25
Torzio, I am from the Cockley line thru Sebastian Caquelin who arrived from Waldersbach, Alsace in 1753 at PA. I have a history of the Gockley's someone wrote and it was a very interesting read. I am assuming you have it.

torzio
01-05-20, 07:00
Torzio, I am from the Cockley line thru Sebastian Caquelin who arrived from Waldersbach, Alsace in 1753 at PA. I have a history of the Gockley's someone wrote and it was a very interesting read. I am assuming you have it.

thanks

I see you have joined the ftdna T project

Who are some of the surnames that appear in Family-Finder matches

I found your Sebastian Caquelin ................actually both Sebastians, father and son...............................this line comes via

1580


Birthplace:
Waldersbach, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France





I presume you are from the Nicholas line and not his brother the Didier one

looking at this line via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinsheim Baden Germany .................but Caquelin is clearly a french name

..........................................

I presume Gareth will put you in the group with the Walloon members of CTS1848

torzio
01-05-20, 19:11
I have the following as my top matches in Ftdna after family members ................are you saying you are part of this patrick Walsh or not part

https://i.postimg.cc/Vk3B0Bhn/p-walsh.png



(https://postimages.org/)First 3 are one family on my mothers side
Lello is paternal from trentino
Miotto from veneto
you or not ????????????
Neuman from trentino
poe from austria
Tax .............new and dutch .......no idea or contact
Hintz from morgan veneto married into a paternal cousin side

Can we clear this up as I am still unsure ................I also have a patrick Walsh in Yfull near my sample

contact from Neuman ...........it is confirmed via BDM records , she is my 3rd cousin ...........her line is not via Ydna, but mtdna via my paternal line ( even though ftdna indicate a blue man icon for her ) ........her ancestor in from my great great grandfather brother


.................................................. ......................

torzio
02-05-20, 23:39
Sample N145191 is surname Goldin .....from ancestors in Monselice, Padova, Veneto
he is T1a2-CTS1848

He sits in Group with the Caquelin of Alsace, also T1a2-CTS1848
and the Bernot family of Walloon Belgium ( who state their origins as Gorizia Friuli .......!?! ) .....to name a few

torzio
05-05-20, 19:48
@salento

I do not have nat-geno latest so I cannot look up a T sample ..............can you?
sample ID is
N25425 ...............belongs to the Wagner or Wegner line from https://d.mhcache.com/Resources/Images/Flags/16x16/plain/IT.pnghttps://d.mhcache.com/FP/Images/spacer.gif civ 28, Sanzeno 38010, Italy ................unsure if info is correct except for kit #

other surnames associated with this are Zanardo and Pivetta

Salento
05-05-20, 21:29
@salento

I do not have nat-geno latest so I cannot look up a T sample ..............can you?
sample ID is
N25425 ...............belongs to the Wagner or Wegner line from https://d.mhcache.com/Resources/Images/Flags/16x16/plain/IT.pnghttps://d.mhcache.com/FP/Images/spacer.gif civ 28, Sanzeno 38010, Italy ................unsure if info is correct except for kit #

other surnames associated with this are Zanardo and Pivetta

👎 ... I don’t see him in the T project or in the matches.

torzio
05-05-20, 22:14
Thanks

strange ...........N represents Nat-geno samples

torzio
13-05-20, 21:36
Christina A Tax

11/20/2019

3rd Cousin - 5th Cousin ...................longest block 15

The German surname Tax is derived from the Old German word "dachs" or "dahs," meaning "badger."
Spelling variations (https://www.houseofnames.com/blogs/Spelling-Variations) of this family name include: Dach, Dachs, Das, Taks, Tax, Dache, Dax, Dacks

Ftdna states paternal side ....I need to check

@salento
Ftdna has redone our group in T project............we sit together with the Pole from Pomerania who states he has german ancestors .............I am in regular contact with him ( a grandfather like me )

torzio
14-05-20, 02:59
Christina A Tax

11/20/2019

3rd Cousin - 5th Cousin ...................longest block 15

The German surname Tax is derived from the Old German word "dachs" or "dahs," meaning "badger."
Spelling variations (https://www.houseofnames.com/blogs/Spelling-Variations) of this family name include: Dach, Dachs, Das, Taks, Tax, Dache, Dax, Dacks

Ftdna states paternal side ....I need to check

@salento
Ftdna has redone our group in T project............we sit together with the Pole from Pomerania who states he has german ancestors .............I am in regular contact with him ( a grandfather like me )


Tax/Dachs is linked with me via surname Varaschin

http://venetoedintorni.it/cognomi-veneti/significato_cognome_varaschin_12657.html

Potrebbe derivare da un soprannome dialettale stante ad indicare la provenienza dei capostipiti dal paese di Varago nel trevisano, oppure basato sul termine che indica la ticchiolatura della frutta, cioè la comparsa delle macchie nerastre, forse a caratterizzare un particolare aspetto della pelle del capostipite.
Il cognome Varaschin è tipicamente veneto, del trevisano.
Varaschini, rarissimo, sembrerebbe anch'esso veneto e dovrebbe essere dovuto ad un'alterazione del precedente.

my link is via town called Villorba < Veneto http://www.codiceinverso.it/directory-cognomi/varaschin.html

torzio
14-05-20, 03:29
Tax/Dachs is linked with me via surname Varaschin

http://venetoedintorni.it/cognomi-veneti/significato_cognome_varaschin_12657.html

Potrebbe derivare da un soprannome dialettale stante ad indicare la provenienza dei capostipiti dal paese di Varago nel trevisano, oppure basato sul termine che indica la ticchiolatura della frutta, cioè la comparsa delle macchie nerastre, forse a caratterizzare un particolare aspetto della pelle del capostipite.
Il cognome Varaschin è tipicamente veneto, del trevisano.
Varaschini, rarissimo, sembrerebbe anch'esso veneto e dovrebbe essere dovuto ad un'alterazione del precedente.

my link is via town called Villorba < Veneto http://www.codiceinverso.it/directory-cognomi/varaschin.html

check sister account ..............vasachin also appears for her

Paternal:
Tiziano Francesco Varaschin, b. 1875 and d. 1930


looks like from Montebelluna ....................she has for this match
4th Cousin - Remote Cousin .................longest block 16

will also check

Maternal:
Antonio Franzoi, b. 1791 and d. 1865

torzio
23-05-20, 00:01
Very hard to be accepted at this site below........I was not accepted

anyway , all the T ydna they have

https://yhrd.org/tools/branch/T-M70

.....................

of the snp L131 group , they only have 7 samples .......

https://yhrd.org/tools/branch/T-L131

6 x Veneto Italy and 1 x Oost Belgium

Salento
23-05-20, 03:32
Very hard to be accepted at this site below........I was not accepted
anyway , all the T ydna they have
https://yhrd.org/tools/branch/T-M70
.....................
of the snp L131 group , they only have 7 samples .......
https://yhrd.org/tools/branch/T-L131
6 x Veneto Italy and 1 x Oost Belgium

In the T project I still see only three T-BY143483

you, me and ...

Do you know if there are other T-BY143483 not included in the project and how many of them are in all?

torzio
23-05-20, 04:15
In the T project I still see only three T-BY143483

you, me and ...

Do you know if there are other T-BY143483 not included in the project and how many of them are in all?


the Pole is a pomeranian from where i said in earlier posts ................I spoke to him yesterday, he still says ancestors german

Salento
23-05-20, 05:03
the Pole is a pomeranian from where i said in earlier posts ................I spoke to him yesterday, he still says ancestors german

I guess ... just the three of us then ...

... below: R850 SZ36 CL23



https://i.imgur.com/XD8tspY.jpg

torzio
23-05-20, 08:04
I guess ... just the three of us then ...

... below: R850 SZ36 CL23



https://i.imgur.com/XD8tspY.jpg


I do not get your setup ..............my explorer is next to haplo I

Salento
23-05-20, 15:09
I do not get your setup ..............my explorer is next to haplo I

y T SZ36 is one of my closest samples, that’s probably why in the Explorer y T is below me :)

https://i.imgur.com/lTmFuIH.jpg

torzio
23-05-20, 19:56
y T SZ36 is one of my closest samples, that’s probably why in the Explorer y T is below me :)

https://i.imgur.com/lTmFuIH.jpg
does it matter where you sit in the haplo tree

I sit between I and R .......................my maternal grandfather ( paternal side ) was I .........my mother ydna line is R
my father between G and R
my sister between I and H

Salento
28-05-20, 03:03
... ​T-BY143483 ...

Alone :grin:


https://youtu.be/1Cw1ng75KP0

Duarte
28-05-20, 03:33
... ​T-BY143483 ...

Alone :grin:


https://youtu.be/1Cw1ng75KP0

Do not worry. It is only a short quarantine period. lol :laughing:

Salento
03-06-20, 16:42
...got a few questions for my northern Quarantine brother from another mother, ... and he has the answers I seek,

... surely he thought things through by now :)

Salento
22-06-20, 22:29
y T Genius Match (NatGeo)

Thomas Jefferson
1743-1826
Political Genius

PATERNAL MATCH

Jefferson was the third President of the United States and one of the Founding Fathers of the Country.

He was an architect, horticulturalist and an academic scholar, and often a strong advocate for religious freedom and tolerance.

Jefferson, like many of his predecessors, was also a slave-owner.

Under his leadership the U.S. nearly doubled in size, as he orchestrated the Louisiana Purchase of 1803.

https://i.imgur.com/vYOuS3O.jpg

Salento
23-06-20, 04:59
Edit ...

Q-Matching:

CL23 (T1a2b (L446) ISOGG 2020)
GedM. # SZ4327468
Larg. Seg.cM: 1.79

SZ36 (T1a (M70/PF5662) ISOGG 2020)
GedM. # BY5848416
Larg. Seg. cM: 1.77

torzio
26-07-20, 22:44
I have just been upgraded to

T-SK1480

Countries 2

Your branch


SK = Mark Stoneking, Ph.D., Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Leipzig, Germany

Salento
27-07-20, 16:42
I have just been upgraded to

T-SK1480

Countries 2

Your branch


SK = Mark Stoneking, Ph.D., Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, Leipzig, Germany

nice :)

... off topic:


https://youtu.be/wtc4f7Ez7FA

Salento
28-07-20, 00:08
... coming soon:

EDIT:

... done:

https://i.imgur.com/TRWG6Df.jpg

torzio
28-07-20, 05:54
https://i.postimg.cc/MGfVtW4T/july20.png (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
28-07-20, 18:26
https://i.postimg.cc/MGfVtW4T/july20.png (https://postimages.org/)

me too, I’ll tell Gareth :)


https://i.imgur.com/HRQZJx4.jpg

ratchet_fan
29-07-20, 01:04
https://i.postimg.cc/MGfVtW4T/july20.png (https://postimages.org/)

Are there really at least 95 subclades of mtdna H?

Salento
29-07-20, 01:28
- Edit -

@Ratchet_Fan - mtDNA Hs:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mt-dna-haplotree/H

torzio
29-07-20, 03:11
Are there really at least 95 subclades of mtdna H?

maybe more

my H95a matches in ftdna .......and yfull has another 2 different ones ( italian from Bergamo and an austrian from North Tyrol )

https://i.postimg.cc/CLmKmgJk/h95a.png

Mantovani = from Friuli
Kournay = from bavaria and villach austria
Bergstrand = surname Holler from Trentino italy
Stroberg =from trentino italy and also belluno Italy
the others are Swedes .................I think the swedes are related , daughters of Hokan
(https://postimages.org/)

Salento
29-07-20, 23:31
fyi
my new final Y Haplogroup is T-SK1480

in the beginning ... :

- M70 23andme

— CTS11984 LivingDNA

—- CTS8862 NatGeo / 23andme (updated)

—— Z19945 Yseq

——- BY143483 “ “

——— SK1480 “ “

https://i.imgur.com/CpbEhnM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w9IXpVC.jpg

ratchet_fan
01-08-20, 00:29
- Edit -

@Ratchet_Fan - mtDNA Hs:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/mt-dna-haplotree/H

Thanks. That's insane. How come this haplogroup has this structure?

Salento
01-08-20, 01:05
Thanks. That's insane. How come this haplogroup has this structure?

mtDNA H has 100s of clades / mutations, ...

ratchet_fan
01-08-20, 03:33
mtDNA H has 100s of clades / mutations, ...

I know. My question is why? No other mtdna has this many major clades.

I - 7 clades
J - 2 clades
K- 3 clades
T- 3 clades
U- 9 clades

V also seems to have a lot of clades. I think 28.

Both are descendants of HV. Which seems to have 17 clades.

So what caused HV, H and V to have so many different subclades vs something like JT, J and T?

Salento
01-08-20, 04:04
I know. My question is why? No other mtdna has this many major clades.

I - 7 clades
J - 2 clades
K- 3 clades
T- 3 clades
U- 9 clades

V also seems to have a lot of clades. I think 28.

Both are descendants of HV. Which seems to have 17 clades.

So what caused HV, H and V to have so many different subclades vs something like JT, J and T?

Could be that in an ancient past the mt H population has been successful, ... the higher the population, the more possibilities for faster mutations.

For example: if in the past took about 1,000+ years to get a mutation, nowadays that we're 7+ billions of people, there's a chance of multiple mutations in just one generation, I think.

... It took over 200,000 years of human history for the world's population to reach 1 billion, and only 200 years more to reach 7 billion ..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population


NatGeo said that about 40% of the population of Rome and Athens is mt H, ... the highest percentage of this line in Europe is in Ireland, where it makes up 61 percent of the population:

... Beginning about 15,000 years ago—after the ice sheets had begun their retreat—humans moved north again and recolonized western Europe.

By far the most frequent mitochondrial lineage carried by these expanding groups was haplogroup H.

Because of the population growth that quickly followed this expansion, your haplogroup now dominates the European female landscape.

Today haplogroup H comprises 40 to 60 percent of the gene pool of most European populations.

In Rome and Athens, for example, the frequency of H is around 40 percent of the entire population, and it exhibits similar frequencies throughout western Europe.

Moving eastward the frequencies of H gradually decreases, clearly illustrating the migratory path these settlers followed as they left the Iberian Peninsula after the ice sheets had receded. Haplogroup H is found at around 25 percent in Turkey and around 20 percent in the Caucasus Mountains ...

Haplogroup H is a great example of the effect that population dynamics such as bottleneck events, founder effect, genetic drift, and rapid population growth, have on the genetic diversity of resulting populations ...

Salento
02-08-20, 00:54
... on MTA my mtDNA beat my Y at least 10 to 1


Y T:

https://i.imgur.com/XoioWhX.jpg

mtDNA H:

https://i.imgur.com/3QI5z83.jpg

torzio
04-08-20, 22:30
... on MTA my mtDNA beat my Y at least 10 to 1


Y T:

https://i.imgur.com/XoioWhX.jpg

mtDNA H:

https://i.imgur.com/3QI5z83.jpg


on that site , I only match CL23 and SZ36 of the samples you presented

Salento
05-08-20, 06:43
on that site , I only match CL23 and SZ36 of the samples you presented

It also depends on what level you paid for, and the number of samples you have.

torzio
16-08-20, 23:56
Yfull kit YF75971 I was told is T1a2 and Z19945 .............I asked for more information

Sample from ...Thuringen Germany

Salento
23-08-20, 02:39
I3403 (1805 AD) Skeleton Lake (traveler)

T1a2 (L131)

I3403 closest modern
https://i.imgur.com/Q9f87we.jpg


I3403 Closest Ancient

https://i.imgur.com/6CrPzyh.jpg

Salento
23-08-20, 03:51
MTA y T Tree:

R850 - SZ36 - CL23 - R120 - R1543 - I3403

https://i.imgur.com/3qyGNuF.jpg

torzio
23-08-20, 19:40
MTA y T Tree:

R850 - SZ36 - CL23 - R120 - R1543 - I3403

https://i.imgur.com/3qyGNuF.jpg


mine

Skeleton Lake Traveller - HellenicI3403 (1805 AD)

mtDNA Haplogroup: X2dY-DNA Haplogroup: T1a2 (L131)
Genetic Distance: 21.442
Sample Match! 94% closer than other users

Salento
26-08-20, 17:35
??? LivingDNA shows an ancient y T migration to Australia ???
I thought it was a y K !!!

‘A0-T’ ‘F’ ‘K’ ‘T’

https://i.imgur.com/z6MXdZ5.jpg

Palermo Trapani
26-08-20, 18:48
Salento and Torzio: Just for my own information, Y-DNA T arrived in Italy in various places with Neolithic expansion or earlier. Wow, I know you two have indicated you have the same Y-DNA Haplogroup buy seeing both of your MyTrueancestry Y DNA Trees match up exactly is incredible. An American of Italian ancestry whose ancestors are from Puglia and an Australian of Italian Ancestry from Northern region matching up that close. Wow.

Thanks for the posts from both of you, really informative and neat to see that way in successive posts.

torzio
26-08-20, 20:01
??? LivingDNA shows an ancient y T migration to Australia ???
I thought it was a y K !!!

‘A0-T’ ‘F’ ‘K’ ‘T’

https://i.imgur.com/z6MXdZ5.jpg


Living are talking about haplogroup K-M9 .....see below for Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_K-M9

their K-M9 , IIRC became haplogroups M and S

our K-M9 became haplogroup LT ...............and then this split into L and T

Salento
26-08-20, 20:06
Salento and Torzio: Just for my own information, Y-DNA T arrived in Italy in various places with Neolithic expansion or earlier. Wow, I know you two have indicated you have the same Y-DNA Haplogroup buy seeing both of your MyTrueancestry Y DNA Trees match up exactly is incredible. An American of Italian ancestry whose ancestors are from Puglia and an Australian of Italian Ancestry from Northern region matching up that close. Wow.
Thanks for the posts from both of you, really informative and neat to see that way in successive posts.

y T is been in Europe at least since the Early Neolithic.

I was born in Italy (Puglia), and as of now I've lived more years in Italy than in America, thought I’m a U.S. Citizen now, ...

under Bush the Young the US needed smart people, ... obviously they made a mistake, LOL


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsdorf_remains

torzio
26-08-20, 20:08
Salento and Torzio: Just for my own information, Y-DNA T arrived in Italy in various places with Neolithic expansion or earlier. Wow, I know you two have indicated you have the same Y-DNA Haplogroup buy seeing both of your MyTrueancestry Y DNA Trees match up exactly is incredible. An American of Italian ancestry whose ancestors are from Puglia and an Australian of Italian Ancestry from Northern region matching up that close. Wow.

Thanks for the posts from both of you, really informative and neat to see that way in successive posts.


since haplogroup T have been found in eastern Bulgaria and central Germany in early neolithic times, then I guess salento and my lines split off towards Italy on that line somewhere....maybe ancient Hungaria

Palermo Trapani
26-08-20, 20:10
y T is been in Europe at least since the Early Neolithic.

I was born in Italy (Puglia), and as of now I've lived more years in Italy than in America, thought I’m an American Citizen now, ...

under Bush the Young the US needed smart people, ... obviously they made a mistake, LOL


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karsdorf_remains

Salento: Wow, I didn't know you were actually born in Puglia! Man that is really neat, I assume you still have first cousins there, etc. I just thought your grandparents and great-parents came over during the large immigration from Southern Italians during the late 19th and early 20th century. Thanks for the clarification. You might have said that somewhere and I just missed it.

Palermo Trapani
26-08-20, 20:17
since haplogroup T have been found in eastern Bulgaria and central Germany in early neolithic times, then I guess salento and my lines split off towards Italy on that line somewhere....maybe ancient Hungaria

Ok, makes sense. Has anyone been able to pinpoint the earliest T1a in Italy. Just curios as to how accurate these Y DNA analyses like Ftdna Big Y are. I have been thinking about doing more on my I-M223 Y DNA to further find out about my own line as I-M223 was the Y DNA of the 2 Mesolithic WHG in the Ancient Roman paper by Antonio et al 2019 and the other was the immediate up-stream I-M436. I-M436, the immediate Upstream has been documented in Trapani in Western Sicily in the pre-print Vande Loosdrecht et al 2020 paper in a WHG from the Grotta Del Uzzo site in Trapani.

So I am slowly starting to do more research on my own Y DNA line and looking for good DNA sites to do that work, many here suggest Ftdna Big Y so that is a likely one I am going to use.

Salento
26-08-20, 20:35
@Torzio thanks

@PT
If you look above at the image on post #805 you'll see that R850 (650 BC Latin) is a y T1a...

torzio
27-08-20, 01:43
@Torzio thanks

@PT
If you look above at the image on post #805 you'll see that R850 (650 BC Latin) is a y T1a...


since T is under haplogroup K-M9, along with other haplogroups of R , N, O, Q and L ...............it means that T has no connection with haplogroup of J or E

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 02:00
@Torzio thanks

@PT
If you look above at the image on post #805 you'll see that R850 (650 BC Latin) is a y T1a...

Sure is, ok, that is something. So you and Torzio not only share genetic affinity with R850 (I do as well) but share his Y DNA Haplogroup. Very good results for both of you.:good_job:

Salento
27-08-20, 02:11
Sure is, ok, that is something. So you and Torzio not only share genetic affinity with R850 (I do as well) but share his Y DNA Haplogroup. Very good results for both of you.:good_job:

not exactly, ... you asked for the oldest T1a in Italy,
R850 is T1a1..., Torzio and I are T1a2... though we're all descended from T1a :)

also we autosomally differ from R850, especially Torzio, I think.

torzio
27-08-20, 02:38
not exactly, ... you asked for the oldest T1a in Italy,
R850 is T1a1..., Torzio and I are T1a2... though we're all descended from T1a :)

also we autosomally differ from R850, especially Torzio, I think.


I have zero R850 sample appearing in my first 100 and also does not appear in my outlier samples

Salento
27-08-20, 02:55
I have zero R850 sample appearing in my first 100 and also does not appear in my outlier samples
I do share a deep dive with R850 :)

https://i.imgur.com/K55eX5L.jpg

IA dod k7
https://i.imgur.com/H8MgC0d.jpg

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 03:17
not exactly, ... you asked for the oldest T1a in Italy,
R850 is T1a1..., Torzio and I are T1a2... though we're all descended from T1a :)

also we autosomally differ from R850, especially Torzio, I think.

Ok, I get DNA deep dive with R850 as well even though I don't have T1a. Sorry about my own confusion. It terms of distance, I have always been closest to R437 as well. R850 shows up for me in Deep Dive in MyTrueancestry but R437 is always closer for me. Dodecad 12B Ancient. Ok, you get Deep Dive with both R437 and R850, 2 Iron Age Romans. :good_job: While I am close to R437 on all calculators, I don't get the Deep Dive match.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


4.18976133
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata


13.23641568
R850_Iron_Age_Ardea


16.54641653
R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


17.40331865
R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro


20.72008205
R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


23.17349132
R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia


23.21816315
R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima


23.78614092
R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


25.41911682
R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica


27.54563123
R851_Iron_Age_Ardea


30.24831400
R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 03:22
I have zero R850 sample appearing in my first 100 and also does not appear in my outlier samples

Ok, thanks for the clarification. It is the Y DNA that you and Salento share with R850 only and not the Deep Dive match for you that Salento has.

Salento
27-08-20, 03:57
Ok, I get DNA deep dive with R850 as well even though I don't have T1a. Sorry about my own confusion. It terms of distance, I have always been closest to R437 as well. R850 shows up for me in Deep Dive in MyTrueancestry but R437 is always closer for me. Dodecad 12B Ancient. Ok, you get Deep Dive with both R437 and R850, 2 Iron Age Romans. :good_job: While I am close to R437 on all calculators, I don't get the Deep Dive match.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


4.18976133
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata


13.23641568
R850_Iron_Age_Ardea


16.54641653
R475_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


17.40331865
R1_Iron_Age_Protovillanovan_Martinsicuro


20.72008205
R474_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


23.17349132
R1015_Iron_Age_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia


23.21816315
R1016_Iron_Age_Castel_di_Decima


23.78614092
R473_Iron_Age_Civitavecchia


25.41911682
R1021_Iron_Age_Boville_Ernica


27.54563123
R851_Iron_Age_Ardea


30.24831400
R435_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Colombella




I’m much closer to R437 than R850 too :)

from above:
R437 Largest chain 29.75 cM
R850 Largest chain 9.21 cM

Dod W9:
https://i.imgur.com/XECJyCF.jpg

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 04:06
Salento: Here are my Dodecad K9 < 5 distances. R437 is still my lowest, R850 comes in with World 9 at 12.1 similar to K12 Dodecad. We get many close distances on same samples.



Distance to:
PalermoTrapani


1.10476242
R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio


1.31628264
R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


1.32676298
R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


1.53642442
R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata


1.82019230
R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


2.04489609
R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto


2.05492092
R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


2.13621160
R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


2.24098193
R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


2.30169503
R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


2.39457721
R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


2.88750758
R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


3.06411488
R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia


3.20686763
R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis


3.28330626
R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche


3.31430234
R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


3.36801128
R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna


3.49931422
R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti


3.50762028
R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis


4.45753295
R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi


4.70699479
R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

Salento
27-08-20, 04:37
@PT :good_job:

I think that many of us would have totally blended in around Romulus, :cool-v:

... lol

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 05:59
@PT :good_job:

I think that many of us would have totally blended in around Romulus, :cool-v:

... lol

No doubt:good_job:

torzio
27-08-20, 20:00
I do share a deep dive with R850 :)
https://i.imgur.com/K55eX5L.jpg
IA dod k7
https://i.imgur.com/H8MgC0d.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/zDxkM28t/new-august-2020.png (https://postimg.cc/vD69xz1f)

new matches to myself ...................no R850

only orange bars count for myself

Salento
27-08-20, 22:42
https://i.postimg.cc/zDxkM28t/new-august-2020.png (https://postimg.cc/vD69xz1f)

new matches to myself ...................no R850

only orange bars count for myself

some of your matches and Otzi,

:thinking: I get a lot of Otzi DNA, he's from the Alps, if I didn't know who he is, I'd say he's Salentino :grin:


https://i.imgur.com/uRnINN2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GXrcjSc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/m2tvtA3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/B8DMBrx.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/sarGH17.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KYsna4Q.jpg

Salento
27-08-20, 23:50
T1a1... R850 650 BC vs T1a2... Salento 2020 AD
https://i.imgur.com/avZuSH2.jpg

R1b... R437 300 BC vs T1a2... Salento 2020 AD
https://i.imgur.com/qsrcLi2.jpg

Palermo Trapani
27-08-20, 23:54
Salento: How do you do a comparison of your plot to those samples in Mytrueancestry? Do you have to upload a kit from those other samples and do a kit to kit comparison?

Salento
28-08-20, 00:05
Salento: How do you do a comparison of your plot to those samples in Mytrueancestry? Do you have to upload a kit from those other samples and do a kit to kit comparison?

I downloaded the .bam and ..., but you could upgrade to Olympus, or (credit to Jovialis):

http://www.mediafire.com/file/hzqdryr37t7s0cm/Antonio_M._et_al_2019_-_Iron_Age_Samples.zip/file

... unzip and upload to MTA

... go to “Additional Features” ... “Compare Kits”

Palermo Trapani
28-08-20, 00:13
Ok, got it. thanks. and thanks to Jovialis again. Btw not to switch threads but Jovialis updated the ancient Roman samples from Antonio et al 2019 and categorized them by the C1 to C7 clusters in the Antonio et al 2019 paper. Check out that thread. Pretty interesting results and again credit and thanks to Jovialis for doing that.

Salento
29-08-20, 06:52
.... Determine from which civilizations and time periods you inherited the most ancient DNA segments

100% Early Modern Period - Roman

https://i.imgur.com/gxtZF5o.jpg

Huracan
05-09-20, 01:54
My archaeogenetic results make sense given my mostly Spanish (or Iberian) background. Cool that I share DNA with Ötzi the Iceman as well as two of the Skeleton Lake remains, including the T1a2 one.
12311123121231312314

I do not understand where the Illyrian comes from. It shows up for my family members too. When I check the ancient groups that match the modern Spanish populations in their database, I also see Illyrian as a top match for almost all the regions, especially those in the south and east (Extremadura, Andalucía, Murcia, Valencia, Cataluña) and also Castile y León (north-central). Tried to understand it as a sort of Proto-Celtic Indo-European influence? Not even the modern groups of the western Balkans and the Adriatic coast in their database have Illyrian as one of their top ancient matches (Slovenian, Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian, Albanian Tosk, Macedonian). Also don't really see it anywhere but Iberia...

torzio
05-09-20, 08:58
My archaeogenetic results make sense given my mostly Spanish (or Iberian) background. Cool that I share DNA with Ötzi the Iceman as well as two of the Skeleton Lake remains, including the T1a2 one.
12307
12308
12309
12310

I do not understand where the Illyrian comes from. It shows up for my family members too. When I check the ancient groups that match the modern Spanish populations in their database, I also see Illyrian as a top match for almost all the regions, especially those in the south and east (Extremadura, Andalucía, Murcia, Valencia, Cataluña) and also Castile y León (north-central). Tried to understand it as a sort of Proto-Celtic Indo-European influence? Not even the modern groups of the western Balkans and the Adriatic coast in their database have Illyrian as one of their top ancient matches (Slovenian, Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian, Albanian Tosk, Macedonian). Also don't really see it anywhere but Iberia...


no such thing as an ethnic illyrian......its a geographical term......is is like saying iberian ............most likely they mean a west-balkan group, maybe Dalmatian or Liburnian, they seem the only sea power in the late bronze age and early iron age

What is your current snp......as mine has changed again

Huracan
05-09-20, 15:53
no such thing as an ethnic illyrian......its a geographical term......is is like saying iberian ............most likely they mean a west-balkan group, maybe Dalmatian or Liburnian, they seem the only sea power in the late bronze age and early iron age

What is your current snp......as mine has changed again

12315

My SNP remains CTS1848. FTDNA shows the country breakdown as well as new downstream SNP groups.

torzio
05-09-20, 19:23
12315

My SNP remains CTS1848. FTDNA shows the country breakdown as well as new downstream SNP groups.


yfull has this for you....you are in the bottom group

https://i.postimg.cc/c4Bh1MPP/new-t-sep.png

the samples beginning with ERS or HG are old and ancient samples
(https://postimages.org/)

Salento
09-09-20, 02:38
Skeleton Lake Traveler I3403 y T1a2 (L131) on my chrome 15 :)

https://i.imgur.com/pXbloO1.jpg


... and same chrome, but in a different position: I3404 (he’s mt H12, almost like me)

https://i.imgur.com/vosQJXA.jpg

Frank A. Fontana DC
09-09-20, 13:32
Does anyone known which subclade of Y-DNA T1a is mostly in the Massif Central of Auvergne, France?

torzio
09-09-20, 19:54
There is both T1a1 and T1a2 in that area as well as Alsace and Lorraine

I remember the french study put Auvergne and Alsace both at 4%

Salento
11-10-20, 05:59
... a T1a2 ‘relative’ from 215 years ago:

I3403 - Skeleton Lake Traveler -1805 AD

https://i.imgur.com/siNr28T.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DU384bx.jpg

torzio
15-10-20, 03:45
There is still no final completion ( still testing ) on the first sample in the beginning of the T-Z19945 tree path

T-Y6033* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y6033*/)https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/person.pngid:YF75971 DEU [DE-THURINGEN] formed 10800 ybp, TMRCA 7600 ybp

torzio
20-10-20, 19:42
1 step from me ..............a Prussian of jewish religion coming from same place as the Pole in my yfull and ftdna group , ie, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbork province


Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677

torzio
28-10-20, 18:37
There is still no final completion ( still testing ) on the first sample in the beginning of the T-Z19945 tree path

T-Y6033* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y6033*/)https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/person.pngid:YF75971 DEU [DE-THURINGEN] formed 10800 ybp, TMRCA 7600 ybp


There is another new T in the Group T1a2-CTS1848 ........which is one below me .......in YFull

torzio
30-10-20, 21:53
There is another new T in the Group T1a2-CTS1848 ........which is one below me .......in YFull


new person is



T-Z19945

https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/ag.png
3100 (3800https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/agli.png2400)
Nicolas Vironet, b. 1818, d. 1874
https://www.yfull.com/static/img/fl/iso/16/BE.png
Belgium





Nicolas VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=nicolas&n=vironet), born about May 1818, deceased 30 May 1874 (Saturday) - Jumet, 6040, Hainaut, Belgique aged about 56 years old, Houilleur

Married 4 November 1845 (Tuesday), Saint-Vaast, 7100, Hainaut, Belgique, to
Placidie-Joseph COPPIN (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=placidie+joseph&n=coppin), born 8 October 1823 (Wednesday) - Saint-Vaast, 7100, Hainaut, Belgique, deceased 27 March 1888 (Tuesday) - Jumet, 6040, Hainaut, Belgique aged 64 years old





children


https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Marie-Charlotte VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=marie+charlotte&n=vironet) 1846-1846
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Marie-Charlotte-Josèphe VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=marie+charlotte+josephe&n=vironet) 1847- Married 20 May 1868 (Wednesday), Jumet, 6040, Hainaut, Belgique, to Jean-François LEFÈVRE (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=jean+francois&n=lefevre) 1843-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Jules-Auguste VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=jules+auguste&n=vironet) 1849- Married 28 May 1873 (Wednesday), Jumet, 6040, Hainaut, Belgique, to Élisie ANDRÉ (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=elisie&n=andre) 1848- with

https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Léona-Placidie VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=leona+placidie&n=vironet) 1873-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Edmond-Désiré VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=edmond+desire&n=vironet) 1882-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Corilda-Louisa-Philomène VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=corilda+louisa+philomene&n=vironet) 1885-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Alice-Augusta VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=alice+augusta&n=vironet) 1887-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Francine-Augustine-Nelly VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=francine+augustine+nelly&n=vironet) 1888-



https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Jean-Joseph VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=jean+joseph&n=vironet) 1851-1858
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Jean-Philippe VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=jean+philippe&n=vironet) 1854-1854
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Mort-Né VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=mort+ne&n=vironet) 1855-1855
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/female.png Marie-Thérèse VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=marie+therese&n=vironet) 1855-1855
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Jean-Philippe VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=jean+philippe&n=vironet&oc=1) 1857- Married in 1896, Hartford City, Indiana, USA, to Alexina WUILLAUME (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=alexina&n=wuillaume) 1857-
https://gw.geneanet.org/images/male.png Nicolas VIRONET (https://gw.geneanet.org/qjeanmarie?lang=en&pz=jean+marie+jules+leonce+robert+ghislain&nz=quaresme&p=nicolas&n=vironet&oc=1) 1859-1875

torzio
31-10-20, 01:21
I cannot read belgium ( walloon, french or flemish )

L’an mil huit cent dix huit, le cinq du mois de mai à neuf heures du matin, par devant nous, Bourgmestre et échevins de la ville de Mons, province du Hainaut, est comparue Agnès Delporte, âgée de vingr deux ans, employée à l’hospice des enfants abandonnés de cette ville et y demeurant, qui nous a déclaré qu’hier à neuf heures trois quart du soir, il a été trouvé dans le tour de l’hospice des enfants abandonnés, un enfant tel qu’elle nous l’a présenté emmailloté dans un morceau de callemande noire, deux mouchoirs simples, une braie, une chemise, un capotin de basin blanc, un bonnet de perkalle garni de tulle de soie festonnée et une sandrinette de coton à lignes rouges et blanches ayant dans ses maillots la moitié d’une image, après avoir visité cet enfant avons reconnu qu’il était nouveau né et de sexe masculin. De suite avons inscrit cet enfant sous les prénom et nom de Nicolas Vironet et avons ordonné qu’il fut remis au dit hospice. De quoi nous avons dressé acte en présence de la dite Agnès Delporte et que nous avons signé, cette dernière ayant déclaré ne savoir écrire après qu’il lui a été fait lecture du contenu du présent procès verbal

torzio
31-10-20, 01:31
seems like nicholas Vironet was not the true name

https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2020/159/210952969_421c1eb1-2c9e-4f23-aa40-8ae465cb47a5.jpeg

torzio
31-10-20, 02:08
Gian Francesco Domenico Vironet born 1572

Oldest Vironet surname I found


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquixanes

who married a female surname Talliaferro

torzio
31-10-20, 07:16
@salento

BY143483 has been split into 2 branches by ftdna .......( T tree was redone by ftdna staff on the 19th of October ), which branch are you in?.........as I have 1 with me in SK1480 branch and the other person in the other branch

Salento
31-10-20, 11:08
@salento

BY143483 has been split into 2 branches by ftdna .......( T tree was redone by ftdna staff on the 19th of October ), which branch are you in?.........as I have 1 with me in SK1480 branch and the other person in the other branch
In the y T Project we’re in the same BY143483 Group, ... me, you, and Anonymous :)

torzio
31-10-20, 19:16
In the y T Project we’re in the same BY143483 Group, ... me, you, and Anonymous :)

Anonymous is the Polish guy who I chat with .................he states his line is from Thuringia Germany 100 years or so previously

BigY ftdna , split the BY143483 into 2 groups ..............I have one person with me and the other person went into the other group ...........I cannot tell if you have remained with me in the new grouping.....do you have snp SK1480 ???

torzio
31-10-20, 19:32
Also note that CTS1848 group split into 2 branches 2 days ago ........both people from Belgium

post #844( Vironet ) has been reassigned into one of these groups

and the other is

T-Z19950 > T-CTS1848>T-Z19945>T-CTS8862> Jean Tillieux/Belgium

Salento
31-10-20, 20:26
Anonymous is the Polish guy who I chat with .................he states his line is from Thuringia Germany 100 years or so previously

BigY ftdna, split the BY143483 into 2 groups ..............I have one person with me and the other person went into the other group ...........I cannot tell if you have remained with me in the new grouping.....do you have snp SK1480 ???


I didn’t do the BigY, .. I tested instead SK1480 (and some others) with Yseq, ... and I’m positive for it:

https://i.imgur.com/bX6p90B.jpg

torzio
02-11-20, 02:43
interesting theory by T ftdna project team

So far T-Z19945 has three main branches and many sub groups. ............: branches below T-CTS11984 (YFull's T-CTS3767) represent growth in the Bronze age (since 2000 BC) following stagnation after the initial farming "growth spurt".

Salento
02-11-20, 04:16
interesting theory by T ftdna project team

So far T-Z19945 has three main branches and many sub groups. ............: branches below T-CTS11984 (YFull's T-CTS3767) represent growth in the Bronze age (since 2000 BC) following stagnation after the initial farming "growth spurt".

... I wouldn’t call it a “growth spurt”,
It’s the least prolific y Haplogroup of all :)

torzio
02-11-20, 05:22
... I wouldn’t call it a “growth spurt”,
It’s the least prolific y Haplogroup of all :)


T came into europe in early neolitihc with H ydna and G2a ydna ............all where butchered by later incoming ydna , like R1 , I as per some examples

Anyhow......there are a lot of belgiums in our branch......a mix of maybe gallic and ancient germanic alomg the rhine river.............actually, I would like to see more rhenish , lorraine, Alsace ydna in the future to make sure

torzio
06-11-20, 04:42
T came into europe in early neolitihc with H ydna and G2a ydna ............all where butchered by later incoming ydna , like R1 , I as per some examples

Anyhow......there are a lot of belgiums in our branch......a mix of maybe gallic and ancient germanic alomg the rhine river.............actually, I would like to see more rhenish , lorraine, Alsace ydna in the future to make sure

another T

T-L131> T-446 oldest ancestor .......Narciso Marotte born in the years 1460's-1470's South Belgium, not sure what his snp's .........doing a Bigy atm

torzio
06-11-20, 20:26
Another T -L446 group...........found via my father dna link ............indicating inside last 200 years

two spellings and 2 birth sites ..............I need to get more info

surname Posner and Pozner .................a single s in a surname or town in italy IIRC has a z sound

from either Molise Italy, and/or Marche Italy and salzburg Austria

torzio
06-11-20, 21:03
Another T -L446 group...........found via my father dna link ............indicating inside last 200 years

two spellings and 2 birth sites ..............I need to get more info

surname Posner and Pozner .................a single s in a surname or town in italy IIRC has a z sound

from either Molise Italy, and/or Marche Italy and salzburg Austria


Another T which is via my distant links with the Bacchion surname ................On DNA Geneanet site .........name Andre Frasson born 1850ish in Castelfranco Veneto

torzio
11-11-20, 18:03
Also note that CTS1848 group split into 2 branches 2 days ago ........both people from Belgium

post #844( Vironet ) has been reassigned into one of these groups

and the other is

T-Z19950 > T-CTS1848>T-Z19945>T-CTS8862> Jean Tillieux/Belgium


there has been cross chit-chat between the above, ....with the person who runs Vironet sample and the person that runs the Bernot Lines in T1a2-CTS1848 group in ftdna....and they are all related.....Bernot mentioned to them that ..mentioned that our ( cts1848 ) lines should join yours ( me ), originating in Northern Italy, 1300s? ...............

https://i.postimg.cc/3rzS9RNY/walloon-group.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
11-11-20, 18:06
I do not understand this sample



MI59655

V. Richter, b. bef. 1650 and d. aft. 1720

Czech Republic .......

T-CTS1080








linked to my son paternally ....but not with myself or my sons paternal grandfather ( my father ) .......................I do not know if its a glitch

torzio
11-11-20, 18:08
other Belgium or lorraine France samples which seems to have a connection



IN88554

Pascal LAURENT, b. ca 1576 d. 1657

Belgium.......

T-BY160604








917435
Nicolas Caquelin, 1610-1655


France .........T-Z19947

Huracan
12-11-20, 04:49
there has been cross chit-chat between the above, ....with the person who runs Vironet sample and the person that runs the Bernot Lines in T1a2-CTS1848 group in ftdna....and they are all related.....Bernot mentioned to them that ..mentioned that our ( cts1848 ) lines should join yours ( me ), originating in Northern Italy, 1300s? ...............

https://i.postimg.cc/3rzS9RNY/walloon-group.png (https://postimages.org/)


Wow so very interesting. So the Bernot and Vironet lines are linked somehow back to Gorizia, Italy?

torzio
12-11-20, 07:13
Wow so very interesting. So the Bernot and Vironet lines are linked somehow back to Gorizia, Italy?


Vironet is a fabricated name....see link

Matt who runs the Verona part of the Vironet line cannot find who the Vironet name came from or original name was , so he is doing further checks


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/210952969/nicolas-vironet

torzio
13-11-20, 00:33
Vironet is a fabricated name....see link

Matt who runs the Verona part of the Vironet line cannot find who the Vironet name came from or original name was , so he is doing further checks


https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/210952969/nicolas-vironet


Checking atm, with the name change from Vironet to Verona if it was anything to do with ancestor finding the true identity of Nicholas Vironet .....................the surname Verona is found in great number since 1610 ( from my search ) in the Carnian alps, Friuli region in a town called Lauco

Funny thing is that the link I found of Pietro Verona b 1665 from Lauco , married in 1690 to Maria De Colle is managed by a women who runs a family tree in Geneanet in which we have DNA matches .....

torzio
13-11-20, 21:33
@salento

Carnian alps...named after the Carni tribe


There you go ......you could be a meat eater , lol..............T-Z19945

the only ancient tribe BC tribe found in North italy and belgium

https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/BarbarianCarni.htm

torzio
13-11-20, 21:45
Checking atm, with the name change from Vironet to Verona if it was anything to do with ancestor finding the true identity of Nicholas Vironet .....................the surname Verona is found in great number since 1610 ( from my search ) in the Carnian alps, Friuli region in a town called Lauco

Funny thing is that the link I found of Pietro Verona b 1665 from Lauco , married in 1690 to Maria De Colle is managed by a women who runs a family tree in Geneanet in which we have DNA matches .....


the linking verona family tree

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAoYAAAHnCAYAAAA lypwbAAAgAElEQVR4nO29PU8cS7e3//hrPOFIDvkQRGYTWCQnJtzBiIPQjv4kREiWjnyTzKS3yDa2ZKHz BA6QtaNzE3IsEzi6Iw8w7rH0xXz6rVq1ZV9wwYzBVcspl66XpZ PfWbVW//p21uAwAAAADA//nZBQAAAACApwHCEAAAAABC2yAMAQAAAKADYQgAAAAAoW0QhgAA AADQgTAEAAAAgNA2CEMAAAAA6EAYAgAAAEBoG4QhAAAAAHQgDA EAAAAgtM2TFYbvw9XbV GsY3H58QmUCQAAAODX5gkKw4/hy/xVODt/H9rmNnw9fxXO3u6EL/c/u1wAAAAAvzZPTxjeH4fF21fh6uYJlAUAAADgBfH0hOHNQTh7ux MW8/VUMiIRAAAA4OF5csLwx VOsq6QqWQAAACAx HJCcOVx1B4CfXfAAAAAPAgPD1hqNcYIgwBAAAAHoWnJwzNXckH 4Wtzi0gEAAAAeECeoDC8Dek5hmJ9IcIQAAAA4MF4osIQAAAAAB 4bhCEAAAAAhLZBGAIAAABAB8IQAAAAAELbIAwBAAAAoANhCAAA AAChbRCGP5n/Dv/4v/8V/kPxx8WXVfj1P8N//N//Cv 4rsjrf6/CH//53xuW50v4 Nt/hf/4v/8M/7LK dtV Pf/XoU/BmVeho//25XBq0/Hv/7TCY95/HYV/t199u L5foZTrwcn49mYTabhdnsMHzOxbs7DfuD8E9huRfT7oblnY6fy 3cRTmLY3mn4bj2vO8j97O36zM62ied2bnAN5JQjnWRZerqzQ7P h fKt62Dfda7D4/WXK7qjqkSbVIWNLCMAANggDH8qneASgm4lmpQImpDPVFYiTInR ToT9cfEl/b9Ob4RpUTeoXxR4sey9uFzHsYThvy W4T9 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the Dna matching link with me as per Geneanet site ..................only names I see which match my family tree is Zuliani, Spilotti ( i have Spilotto or Spiloto ) and Colle ...( I have Collen as my ancestor )


the women who runs the site wrote this ...can someone translate for me please

Moitiée friuline, moitiée normande avec un zeste celtique
FAMILLE TRAVANI / FAMILLE LENEVEU
Longtemps apanage des nobles et des princes, la généalogie avait pour vocation à garantir le pouvoir des rois, justifier un droit de succession ou un titre de noblesse. Désormais, par curiosité ou par plaisir, pour fêter un évènement ou prouver son droit, chacun peu établir sa généalogie.

torzio
13-11-20, 21:46
https://i.postimg.cc/HxzC66fh/verona.png (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
13-11-20, 23:45
@salento

Carnian alps...named after the Carni tribe


There you go ......you could be a meat eater , lol..............T-Z19945

the only ancient tribe BC tribe found in North italy and belgium

https://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/BarbarianCarni.htm


... not often, but I heard some people say “Carne” as “Damn it” or “wtf”,
... maybe that's what the Romans meant when they named the Carni tribe,

... I guess “Spicy Meatball” would have been too long, ... lol

torzio
14-11-20, 00:14
Wow so very interesting. So the Bernot and Vironet lines are linked somehow back to Gorizia, Italy?

latest in yfull

there are 2 brothers I know of from the Bernot family ......maybe there is 3


who matches me in yfull

https://i.postimg.cc/JzcybKvv/yfullnvov2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
14-11-20, 01:45
... also “carni” in my dialect means Skin Complexion.

... “La ‘stria tene le carni chiare” = “The girl has very fair skin” :)

torzio
14-11-20, 02:26
... also “carni” in my dialect means Skin Complexion.

... “La ‘stria tene le carni chiare” = “The girl has very fair skin” :)


"La tosa gha pel ciara"

Salento
14-11-20, 05:27
"La tosa gha pel ciara"

“facimu a Torziu” :

... generally Torzio means Wanderer, but in my dialect it means “the Roman way” = “Each for himself” ... if we go to a Restaurant we ask for separate checks :grin:

ps ... “alla Romana” has other meanings in other places in Italy:
“equally sharing a common expenditure”

torzio
14-11-20, 06:51
“facimu a Torziu” :

... generally Torzio means Wanderer, but in my dialect it means “the Roman way” = “Each for himself” ... if we go to a Restaurant we ask for separate checks :grin:

ps ... “alla Romana” has other meanings in other places in Italy:
“equally sharing a common expenditure”

Tosa = girl
Toso = boy

Torzar = to cut

Torzio = to wander/drift with the tide

separate for sure :grin: I could not afford a rich man's meal .............its the friuliani who are known as the scots of Italy

..................................

u changed to a red back spider.......many here in australia .......but daddy long leg spiders hunt them down to eat......https://australian.museum/learn/animals/spiders/daddy-long-legs-spider/

...................................
Pavana = a voglia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc1Sb-MNXDY

Salento
14-11-20, 08:17
Tosa = girl
Toso = boy

Torzar = to cut

Torzio = to wander/drift with the tide

separate for sure :grin: I could not afford a rich man's meal .............its the friuliani who are known as the scots of Italy

..................................

u changed to a red back spider.......many here in australia .......but daddy long leg spiders hunt them down to eat......https://australian.museum/learn/animals/spiders/daddy-long-legs-spider/

...................................
Pavana = a voglia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc1Sb-MNXDY

We’re not very stingy in Salento :)

imho ... the “careful with money” gene range on average at 55% strength, lol

Salento
15-11-20, 06:51
... Neanderthal has the Hoarder gene, maybe it's also the Stingy gene:
from 23andme: “You have 1 variant associated with: having difficulty discarding rarely-used possessions”, lol
https://i.imgur.com/vwk7Bp7.jpg

Huracan
16-11-20, 02:05
Was recently able to trace my paternal line to ~1700s in the Canary Islands, Spain. Updated my info on FTDNA. Based on oral histories and genealogies of other Fundora families, this was expected as the Canaries served as a notable source of Fundora's who migrated to Cuba or elsewhere. In trying to find the ultimate mainland source, people have told me Asturias in Northern Spain may be the origin place of the surname. Perhaps that is where my paternal line ultimately hails from...

So this officially links my CTS1848 line to Spain

torzio
17-11-20, 18:44
Was recently able to trace my paternal line to ~1700s in the Canary Islands, Spain. Updated my info on FTDNA. Based on oral histories and genealogies of other Fundora families, this was expected as the Canaries served as a notable source of Fundora's who migrated to Cuba or elsewhere. In trying to find the ultimate mainland source, people have told me Asturias in Northern Spain may be the origin place of the surname. Perhaps that is where my paternal line ultimately hails from...

So this officially links my CTS1848 line to Spain


your marker does not appear to be

Ancient Canary Islanders (Guanches)

Huracan
18-11-20, 02:07
your marker does not appear to be

Ancient Canary Islanders (Guanches)

No, it definitely is not Guanche or native Canary Islander. It was most definitely introduced via Spanish colonization of the islands.

torzio
11-12-20, 04:12
Another 2 x T1a that are distant matches to myself

Christian Burtscher


Francesco Antonio Onorato (1727 - 1806) Lucania, Italy

.................................................. .....................

others of T1a2 not linked to myself, but close for my snp


Carl August Zimmerling b.1834 from North-Tyrol


Hans Caspar Gräser; b1660 from Nosellari, Trento, Trentino-South Tyrol, Italy

Salento
11-12-20, 05:17
Another 2 x T1a that are distant matches to myself

Christian Burtscher


Francesco Antonio Onorato (1727 - 1806) Lucania, Italy

.................................................. .....................

others of T1a2 not linked to myself, but close for my snp


Carl August Zimmerling b.1834 from North-Tyrol


Hans Caspar Gräser; b1660 from Nosellari, Trento, Trentino-South Tyrol, Italy

There should be a few T1a2 (SK1480) in Lucania (Basilicata), ... some relatives fled there after WW2 (wrong side of history) until the Amnesty, ... the usual :)
one of them met his wife and had a family, he didn’t go back to Puglia, ...

torzio
11-12-20, 06:40
There should be a few T1a2 (SK1480) in Lucania (Basilicata), ... some relatives fled there after WW2 (wrong side of history) until the Amnesty, ... the usual :)
one of them met his wife and had a family, he didn’t go back to Puglia, ...


thanks

I got a message that the person came from Foggia or Molise

the surname comes from these 2 area

Biccari, Foggia, Italy
Alberona, Foggia, Italy

I was also given this as his parents

Vincenzo Onorato, Rachele Verdorato

Usually ato surname endings are Veneti....same as endings with lin, otto, acco and gher to name a few ...................not to say that Vincenzo was Veneto , because he seems complete foggian

torzio
11-12-20, 23:12
thanks

I got a message that the person came from Foggia or Molise

the surname comes from these 2 area

Biccari, Foggia, Italy
Alberona, Foggia, Italy

I was also given this as his parents

Vincenzo Onorato, Rachele Verdorato

Usually ato surname endings are Veneti....same as endings with lin, otto, acco and gher to name a few ...................not to say that Vincenzo was Veneto , because he seems complete foggian


had to recheck ...I was slightly wrong

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wmLqfLPa2m5eGmzDSEyT2kx681SeqAQFnaLiqHYHaMb2lCf6Z7 bcpVnP15ee06StqK/5ekT4l9psyUhUG93dF5rCFtnZzBJv MwSqY75t5fgFf8MM68FWer6lf86Afycn9Wmbxa9Nv ekvLVrn9l9T7AtiHbSKBW1jvu k9Z/SbpDHa rHzOPwEAMUz9Us/zX64YnmO87nhgNM3hFLL4VYB61iQduY7xuZXMYcwGN5uqZ yeSe9RVHz1F 6M9RT 5512SFefQDxvtyiHXQKha0jfm C345yySP1hRE7ORAA0AWYh20igVtY74BBGgKAHqAWAetYkHbmG 8AAZoCgB4g1kGrWNA25htAgKYAoAeIddAqFrSN QYQoCkA6AFiHbSKBW1jvgEEaAoAeoBYB61iQduYbwABmgKAHiD WQatY0DbmG0CApgCgB4h10CoWtI35BhCgKQDoAWIdtIoFbWO AQRoCgB6gFgHrWJB25hvAAGaAoAeINZBq1jQNuYbQICmAKAHiH XQKha0bd58s7CwsLCwsLCwsKzL0zFvvgGuBE0BQA8Q66BVLGgb 8w0gQFMA0APEOmgVC9rGfAMI0BQA9ACxDlrFgrYx3wACNAUAPU Csg1axoG3MN4AATQFADxDroFUsaPv/AWgdbNNBzsXNAAAAAElFTkSuQmCChttps://i.postimg.cc/9QxMVtGx/ven-endings.png (https://postimages.org/)


my cousin, my wife on the border of veneti and friuli have endings of

t, and olo


then there is also lin endings
Guidolin
Santolin
Michielin .....................all after christian names , Michiel being Michele in venetian

torzio
21-12-20, 18:21
new yfull matches

https://i.postimg.cc/0jdCV1nj/dec-20-yfull.png (https://postimages.org/)

they have me confirm SK1480 , but Yfull do not use it
Known SNPs at this position:

SK1480
A
to
G
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/approvedSan.png
YB



I lost my notes on samples NA20758 ........it says TSI ( toscani ) but I think it is Apulia.....one of these below

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9


YSU4S Da Lessio Salerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

torzio
21-12-20, 18:31
Benedetto I know married a german woman

Da Lessio can also be Alessio as I have spoken to a woman who runs the line ............but I think the original surname was lessio

https://www.antenati-italiani.org/it/cognomi/8234-lessio


https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/LESSIO (https://www.antenati-italiani.org/it/cognomi/8234-lessio)

Salento
21-12-20, 20:54
probably: ... D’Alesssio ... :)

Il mio ... :
https://i.imgur.com/K5zHbKR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aRYBrxV.jpg

torzio
23-12-20, 00:55
https://i.postimg.cc/nhGKGLx5/new-update-yfull.png

the swedish one is the viking from circa 1050AD
(https://postimages.org/)

Salento
23-12-20, 03:36
... Stratford ... go by I-95 or nicer Merritt Parkway to get to New York :grin:

torzio
24-12-20, 22:05
... Stratford ... go by I-95 or nicer Merritt Parkway to get to New York :grin:


this one is the latest with the new updated snp

compare the last two

post 886 to post 883

torzio
25-12-20, 17:58
A new yfull match for myself




James Carson b. 1765
https://www.yfull.com/static/img/fl/iso/16/EN.png
England
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/person.pngYF13207

https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/pm.png (https://www.yfull.com/messages/pm/13207/)
https://www.yfull.com/static/css/img/i-node.pngT-BY45377 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY45377)





hmm, Carson ......from the Good, the Bad and the Ugly film........did he hide the gold

Huracan
28-12-20, 16:42
Yfull has just given me a new branch under Z19945
with a Pole and an ancient trentino/South Tyrol sample
Because there are 3 different non family samples it has been accepted so it is
T - BY143483


https://i.postimg.cc/7P9dNw0q/new-march2020.png (https://postimages.org/)

@torzio, how do you know the ERS sample grouped with you and the Pole (Bartosiak) is from Trentino/South Tyrol? It only lists Cagliari, Sardinia as its origin

torzio
28-12-20, 20:58
@torzio, how do you know the ERS sample grouped with you and the Pole (Bartosiak) is from Trentino/South Tyrol? It only lists Cagliari, Sardinia as its origin

I state that ERS is a sardinian who matches another sample in Trentino surname erspamer
https://www.italianames.com/italian-last-names-maps/ERSPAMER



The Pole is not from trentino.......we chat regularly on messenger, he states he is currently living in old prusi lands -.......old prussians near the baltic sea , east of Gdansk
He states his ancestors are thuringians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

he is an engineer on a merchant boat , trading between Poland and Britain

torzio
28-12-20, 21:06
183663

Erspamer

Giovanni ERSPAMER, b. 1704 (Malosco, Italy)

Italy

T-M70






this site is so crap in updating ones messages

torzio
28-12-20, 23:10
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bertagnolli/genealogy/progen2/bertagnolli/wga72.html#I18790

I have a distant DNA connection with this line from link above

Erspamer, Giovanni Giuseppe (1826 - 1903) - male
b. 19 Mar 1826
d. 23 Sep 1903 in Fondo,Trento,Trentino,Italy
father: Erspamer, Giovanni (*1787 - >1835) (http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bertagnolli/genealogy/progen2/bertagnolli/wga72.html#I18789)
mother: Sartori, Marianna (1791 - 1875) (http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bertagnolli/genealogy/progen2/bertagnolli/wga120.html#I31574)
spouse: Pretol, Maria (1841 - 1887) (http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~bertagnolli/genealogy/progen2/bertagnolli/wga113.html#I29669)

Huracan
29-12-20, 01:49
I state that ERS is a sardinian who matches another sample in Trentino surname erspamer
https://www.italianames.com/italian-last-names-maps/ERSPAMER

Thanks that is interesting.

So is the Erspamer individual (#183663) positive for your same SNP SK1480? or BY143483?

torzio
29-12-20, 04:27
Thanks that is interesting.

So is the Erspamer individual (#183663) positive for your same SNP SK1480? or BY143483?

not sure .....more analysis needs to be done

he is a T1a2 -L446


check also the old swiss Ulrich , also T1a2

https://i.postimg.cc/gcXRPcTY/ersp.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
03-01-21, 05:11
4 members of the group below match me in level 0 or 1 , others do not appear

https://i.postimg.cc/Tw94b3f0/t-m70-hill.png



more info below


https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hill-3101 (https://postimages.org/)

Huracan
03-01-21, 07:26
I used SAPP (https://www.jdvsite.com) to create a Y-STR tree of CTS11984/CTS54 to get an idea about origin and dispersal. I specified in my input the currently known positive and negative SNPs for each sample and the program did the rest. It is in high agreement with YFull dates and organization. The red annotations are predictions based on timing and the patterns I see. It suggests CTS11984 originated in Central Europe ≥3,000 ybp, suggesting a connection to the Bronze Age expansion of Indo-Europeans such as the Celts, Italics, Illyrians, etc.

12518 CTS54 root with CTS8489 and CTS8862

12519First CTS54* branch: the UK individuals (Powell, etc.)

12520CTS8862* and Y17493 branch (Knox, etc.)

12521 CTS1848 branch (those cut off are Pereira [Azores] on the left and two Bernot individuals at the bottom)

Huracan
03-01-21, 07:34
Sorry about the poor image quality. Trying to see how to share a higher resolution one.

torzio
03-01-21, 16:58
I used SAPP (https://www.jdvsite.com) to create a Y-STR tree of CTS11984/CTS54 to get an idea about origin and dispersal. I specified in my input the currently known positive and negative SNPs for each sample and the program did the rest. It is in high agreement with YFull dates and organization. The red annotations are predictions based on timing and the patterns I see. It suggests CTS11984 originated in Central Europe ≥3,000 ybp, suggesting a connection to the Bronze Age expansion of Indo-Europeans such as the Celts, Italics, Illyrians, etc.

12509

attachment does not work for me.....it says, ask administrator

Huracan
03-01-21, 18:12
12523
Last part: the rest of Z19945 (not including CTS1848) showing BY143483, the Ashkenazi group (PAGES00113) and the Brooks/Curtiss group

torzio
03-01-21, 22:50
12523
Last part: the rest of Z19945 (not including CTS1848) showing BY143483, the Ashkenazi group (PAGES00113) and the Brooks/Curtiss group


yes it is blurry

I think you have my notes of some of these people I gathered....but here again

David A. Hill b.1850 and d 1885 ....ftdna of 0 for me .................ancestor from Scotland ................horse traders for the confederacy

Reddick Knox ......ftdna ) for me ....................ancestor from Hesse Germany , original surname Radich ( after radish )


François Bernot b. abt 1618 Virelles (?) and 2 others ....ftdna of 1 for me ...........Walloons, Cannon makers for spanish-netherlands army, originally from Gorizia italy


John/1f Brooks, b a1640-d 1695 Stratford, CT .....ftdna of 1 for me ........original surname Brucke from Germany .............4 generation separation from Curtiss line

Curtiss .............ftdna of 1 from me.......with the Brooks line ...............came out of Frush and Freshour line in Germany
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

Lee line ............ftdna of 1 from me ..............family from York England , .......original person Levy Lee .....stated not jewish

Jose Rodrigues Pereira, b. 1800 ...ftdna of 1 from me ..............from Azores, moved to England and changed surname to Perry.....thats all I know



Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677 .............ftdna of 1 from me ......from old East Germany .......marker T-CTS8862


Johann Adam Wolff, b.1688 and d. 1741 ...............ftdna of 1 from me ........German no other info




Ivan Mozetič ............ftdna of 0 from me ............from Slovenia, original surname Mozet ( venetian word for a type of sausage ), from either trentino or Belluno province of Veneto in cities of Fonzaso or Seren del Grappa


Charles Sheppard Vinson Jones , 1760 carolina ...ftdna of 0 from me ..........original surname eberhart from germany


Michael Benedetto, Toretto, Italy ....ftdna of 0 from me............originally near Foggia Italy


Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler ................ftdna of 1 from me ..........Tyrol Austria


William Bradshaw Atherholt ..............ftdna from me .............Hanover , Germany - Oct 1789



all others below are ftdna of 1 from me


Timothy W. Parker, b.c. 1780-90, England

Nathaniel H. Hill, 1825 - 1879

Pietro Pao Viselli b.~ 1830 Strangolagalli, Italy


George Washington Hill


John M Hill , b1819 Darlington SC

Huracan
03-01-21, 23:39
yes it is blurry

I think you have my notes of some of these people I gathered....but here again

David A. Hill b.1850 and d 1885 ....ftdna of 0 for me .................ancestor from Scotland ................horse traders for the confederacy

Reddick Knox ......ftdna ) for me ....................ancestor from Hesse Germany , original surname Radich ( after radish )


François Bernot b. abt 1618 Virelles (?) and 2 others ....ftdna of 1 for me ...........Walloons, Cannon makers for spanish-netherlands army, originally from Gorizia italy


John/1f Brooks, b a1640-d 1695 Stratford, CT .....ftdna of 1 for me ........original surname Brucke from Germany .............4 generation separation from Curtiss line

Curtiss .............ftdna of 1 from me.......with the Brooks line ...............came out of Frush and Freshour line in Germany
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults

Lee line ............ftdna of 1 from me ..............family from York England , .......original person Levy Lee .....stated not jewish

Jose Rodrigues Pereira, b. 1800 ...ftdna of 1 from me ..............from Azores, moved to England and changed surname to Perry.....thats all I know



Anthonius Hoff, b. 1616 and d. 1677 .............ftdna of 1 from me ......from old East Germany .......marker T-CTS8862


Johann Adam Wolff, b.1688 and d. 1741 ...............ftdna of 1 from me ........German no other info




Ivan Mozetič ............ftdna of 0 from me ............from Slovenia, original surname Mozet ( venetian word for a type of sausage ), from either trentino or Belluno province of Veneto in cities of Fonzaso or Seren del Grappa


Charles Sheppard Vinson Jones , 1760 carolina ...ftdna of 0 from me ..........original surname eberhart from germany


Michael Benedetto, Toretto, Italy ....ftdna of 0 from me............originally near Foggia Italy


Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler ................ftdna of 1 from me ..........Tyrol Austria


William Bradshaw Atherholt ..............ftdna from me .............Hanover , Germany - Oct 1789



all others below are ftdna of 1 from me


Timothy W. Parker, b.c. 1780-90, England

Nathaniel H. Hill, 1825 - 1879

Pietro Pao Viselli b.~ 1830 Strangolagalli, Italy


George Washington Hill


John M Hill , b1819 Darlington SC

Yes I compiled the members of CTS54 and downstream from the T group on FTDNA that had 37 or more markers tested. I also used info that you provided earlier here, thanks.

torzio
04-01-21, 17:52
12523
Last part: the rest of Z19945 (not including CTS1848) showing BY143483, the Ashkenazi group (PAGES00113) and the Brooks/Curtiss group


so where do I fit in...this one is very blurry

maybe you can send me this attachment and I will see what I can do

torzio
04-01-21, 18:01
Yes I compiled the members of CTS54 and downstream from the T group on FTDNA that had 37 or more markers tested. I also used info that you provided earlier here, thanks.

A few I left out ...............ftdna of 0 from me

Carmine Anthony Di Chiara


Timothy Brennan T-CTS8862


Richard A. Crump



Enoch Dewey Schales


and 1 x ftdna of 1 from me

Romanel T-CTS8862 from Rimini ( run by Bowen family )

Huracan
05-01-21, 03:26
so where do I fit in...this one is very blurry

maybe you can send me this attachment and I will see what I can do

12524

The predicted tree gives an estimate of 3,000 ybp for BY143483 and also for SK1480

Salento
05-01-21, 04:26
12524

The predicted tree gives an estimate of 3,000 ybp for BY143483 and also for SK1480

Thanks Huracan,

1050 BC

torzio
05-01-21, 06:56
12524

The predicted tree gives an estimate of 3,000 ybp for BY143483 and also for SK1480


Thanks much appreciated

do you have these 2 below in your charts.......both belong to our T1a2 branch



E4623 ...........

Ulrich Blarer b about 1190 and d 1242 .............Sankt Gallen.........

Switzerland






...........T-CTS933














183663.......

Giovanni ERSPAMER, .b. 1704 ......(Malosco, Italy)

........Italy

..........T-L446

Huracan
05-01-21, 23:07
Thanks much appreciated

do you have these 2 below in your charts.......both belong to our T1a2 branch



E4623 ...........
Ulrich Blarer b about 1190 and d 1242 .............Sankt Gallen.........
Switzerland




...........T-CTS933













183663.......
Giovanni ERSPAMER, .b. 1704 ......(Malosco, Italy)
........Italy
..........T-L446




Oh yes I forgot to add Erspamer since this line matches the Sardinian on YFull, correct? That makes him BY143483+. I shall add him and update the phylogeny.

I see Blarer is CTS933+ but do we know if he matches more downstream? Or any confirmation that he falls in our line (which SNP?)

torzio
05-01-21, 23:21
Oh yes I forgot to add Erspamer since this line matches the Sardinian on YFull, correct? That makes him BY143483+. I shall add him and update the phylogeny.

I see Blarer is CTS933+ but do we know if he matches more downstream? Or any confirmation that he falls in our line (which SNP?)

I will check what I can find about Blarer

Erspamer has there ftdna site
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/erspamer-family-tree-dna-project/dna-results

his ancestors are in this link

http://valdinonusa.com/search.php?mylastname=ERSPAMER&lnqualify=equals&mybool=AND

torzio
05-01-21, 23:30
I will keep looking for Blarer

https://gw.geneanet.org/aeswal?lang=en&pz=gitschard&nz=raron+von&p=ulrich&n=blarer&oc=2

he was well documented

torzio
06-01-21, 17:43
new T tree a few hours ago

https://i.postimg.cc/43nCsNPW/new-t1a2-tree.png (https://postimages.org/)

Salento
06-01-21, 20:33
SK1480 breed is so rare, that we don't even make the updated list :)

R1b did his job well, though they missed some of us.

I understand tha SK.... = a Scandinavian lab, but Yfull has also FT and others in the tree.

torzio
06-01-21, 23:58
SK1480 breed is so rare, that we don't even make the updated list :)

R1b did his job well, though they missed some of us.

I understand tha SK.... = a Scandinavian lab, but Yfull has also FT and others in the tree.


SK stands for StoneKing ( Mark )

https://www.genetichomeland.com/welcome/dnamarkerindex.asp?chromosome=Y&snp=SK1480

yfull will not change me to this snp as they did 3 reads and I got it once ...........but they have ticked it off as yes for me ................I think they want to wait on more people to test

torzio
29-01-21, 21:50
Reddick ...........T ydna


Reddicks are German in origin, having had the surname recorded as Radick upon arrival in Savannah, GA in 1737. Back in the Odenwald region of southwest Germany the name had been Rettich / Rettig and a century earlier the family was named Retgen. Rettich is German for the vegetable radish. My suspicion is that the surname changed with circumstances - either a move to where there were already Rettich / Rettig folks residing or else when my Retgen ancestors perhaps took up radish farming........info from Reddick site owner

new news, associated with the above.............
Johannes Rettich was born in Gadernheim, Reichenbach Parish, in 1701. He married Maria Barbara Wolff circa January, 1724.

other family members live in Erbach-Schonberg Hesse Germany

Ftdna distance of Reddick T ydna from myself is zero

odd is that the Wolff surname in the same area is also T ydna , but shows as distance of 1 from myself

Huracan
30-01-21, 01:05
Reddick ...........T ydna


Reddicks are German in origin, having had the surname recorded as Radick upon arrival in Savannah, GA in 1737. Back in the Odenwald region of southwest Germany the name had been Rettich / Rettig and a century earlier the family was named Retgen. Rettich is German for the vegetable radish. My suspicion is that the surname changed with circumstances - either a move to where there were already Rettich / Rettig folks residing or else when my Retgen ancestors perhaps took up radish farming........info from Reddick site owner

new news, associated with the above.............
Johannes Rettich was born in Gadernheim, Reichenbach Parish, in 1701. He married Maria Barbara Wolff circa January, 1724.

other family members live in Erbach-Schonberg Hesse Germany

Ftdna distance of Reddick T ydna from myself is zero

odd is that the Wolff surname in the same area is also T ydna , but shows as distance of 1 from myself

Is Reddick in the T project?

torzio
30-01-21, 02:55
Is Reddick in the T project?


Kit # 51824 ............hes been with ftdna since 2012

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/reddick-r-320/about/background

father of Johannes is ( johannes died in Georgia USA )



Peter Rettich


Birth
Nov 1678 Germany


Death
Circa 1750 Germany



mother is



Anna Elisabeth Rettich (born Wiener)


Birth
July 14 1678 Gadernheim, Bergstrasse, Hessen, D


Death
1749



https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/genealogy-ludwig/I52703.php

Huracan
30-01-21, 02:58
Kit # 51824 ............hes been with ftdna since 2012

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/reddick-r-320/about/background

father of Johannes is ( johannes died in Georgia USA )



Peter Rettich


Birth
Nov 1678 Germany


Death
Circa 1750 Germany



mother is



Anna Elisabeth Rettich (born Wiener)


Birth
July 14 1678 Gadernheim, Bergstrasse, Hessen, D


Death
1749




Only has 12 markers unfortunately.

torzio
30-01-21, 03:01
what is confusing is that this line has

James Knox Reddick
Circa 1850

who married susan Robinson




................................

earliest from this line is

Hans Jacob Reddick
1617 , Erbach-Schonberg area

Huracan
01-02-21, 03:25
note that Brooks ( ancient surname was Brucke from Hanover germany ) and Curtiss are related back via 4 generations back and both are related the the frush and Froshour , German family line

I am split further apart from yourself with a pomerian Pole and an ancient Sardo/Trentino sample ........but the pole and I share links with the Brooks, Curtiss, Frush and Froshour family tree
The pole closer to them than myself by 2 extra snp's

Online genealogies show the Curtiss line (BY64684+ kits 920992 and 116079) go back to 1400s Essex, England. Their FTDNA family tree also says the same. I did not see any connection to the Brooks or German lines 4 generations back as mentioned.

http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtis/
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Daniel_Curtiss_%281%29
https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LTM3-H2C/daniel-curtiss-1695-1763

torzio
01-02-21, 04:08
Online genealogies show the Curtiss line (BY64684+ kits 920992 and 116079) go back to 1400s Essex, England. Their FTDNA family tree also says the same. I did not see any connection to the Brooks or German lines 4 generations back as mentioned.

http://www.ginaology.com/rootspersona-tree/daniel-curtis/
https://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Daniel_Curtiss_%281%29
https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LTM3-H2C/daniel-curtiss-1695-1763

thanks

Curtiss is linked with this German line

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults


and is 4 generations removed from the brooks line ......................I think I already linked the conversation with the woman running both Brooks and Curtiss ...........I will recheck in facebook

Huracan
01-02-21, 04:12
thanks

Curtiss is linked with this German line

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Freshour?iframe=yresults


and is 4 generations removed from the brooks line ......................I think I already linked the conversation with the woman running both Brooks and Curtiss ...........I will recheck in facebook

Yes thanks I would like to know any confirming information since everything else says otherwise.

torzio
01-02-21, 04:19
T1a2-CTS9882

from Karen...........So far this is the most distant direct paternal ancestor, that I can verify. Anders Elofsson, born May 30th, 1740. Bortan, Varmland, Sweden.

Died May 31st, 1783 Gunnerskog, Varmland, Sweden.
This match absolutly close to one of our T members:
IN45906 Olof Assgärdsson, b. abt. 1555 in Treskog, Gunnarskog, Värmland

torzio
01-02-21, 04:39
Yes thanks I would like to know any confirming information since everything else says otherwise.


both are together here

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Curtis%20DNA%20Data%20Base?iframe=yresults

BTW...the Pole from Pomerania which matches me in yfull has more snp matches with Brooks than what I have
Pomerania has visibly different distribution of some clades of Polish DNA and higher Germanic (Ostsiedlung) influence

torzio
01-02-21, 04:46
https://www.tributaries.info/p2539.htm


I wrote to the person who manages the family tree
(https://www.tributaries.info/p2539.htm)

Huracan
01-02-21, 15:45
https://www.tributaries.info/p2539.htm


I wrote to the person who manages the family tree
(https://www.tributaries.info/p2539.htm)

So the Brooks and Curtiss lines are linked via Brücke from Hanover, Germany and they are also linked to the Frush/Froschauer line which states origin from Rhineland-Pfalz, but the FTDNA project shows how descendants have different Y-DNA...

Regardless, Brooks, Curtiss, and Frush/Froschauer are closely related in terms of STRs and all should be BY64684+. FTDNA has Brooks being FT126500 which the FTDNA haplotree has as downstream of BY64684.

torzio
01-02-21, 17:53
So the Brooks and Curtiss lines are linked via Brücke from Hanover, Germany and they are also linked to the Frush/Froschauer line which states origin from Rhineland-Pfalz, but the FTDNA project shows how descendants have different Y-DNA...

Regardless, Brooks, Curtiss, and Frush/Froschauer are closely related in terms of STRs and all should be BY64684+. FTDNA has Brooks being FT126500 which the FTDNA haplotree has as downstream of BY64684.


What do you mean by ...different ydna ?

They are all T1a2 branch ....our branch

you mentioned in 2014 , you are linked with them https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29626-Questions-on-my-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-T?p=435157&viewfull=1#post435157

torzio
01-02-21, 17:58
frush chart is in this link

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29626-Questions-on-my-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-T?p=592629&viewfull=1#post592629

torzio
01-02-21, 18:43
@Huracan
What I got from administrator of Ysearch in mid 2012 .................yoou can see Reddick on the list ...............pity Ftdna closed down Ysearch


These are the people closest to you on Ysearch and of course Dalessio is the closest:

3THJ8 Jones Unknown
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 9 11 12 26 15 19 32 11 11 15 16 10 10 23 25 16 13 17 18 32 33 14 9

4MNH3 Schales Germany
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 26 15 20 33 11 15 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 17 17 34 34 14 9

CXMD6 Mozet Martin, Slovenia
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

R4VSF Reddick Florida, USA
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9


YSU4S Dalessio Selerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

It seems to me clear an expansion from the "Italian Refugium" Northwards as I think having demonstrated for other Y and mt haplogroups. Big Y or Full Y could say how old is this subclade of T-L446, i.e. if this haplogroup was in Italy many thousands of years ago or more recently. From this we'll be able to understand also the ethnic origin of this ancestor.


we don't know how really close they are to you, but amongst the people with at least 37 markers we can see that Dalessio is the closest to you in many markers and above all in DYS447: you have 28, Dalessio 27 and all the Northern Europeans 26. This is an important markers and clearly you are very close to Dalessio. Beyond this Italians are a little tested as to Central Europeans and above all the people from the Isles


It seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: From Western Black Sea area.

torzio
01-02-21, 19:11
@Huracan
What I got from administrator of Ysearch in mid 2012 .................yoou can see Reddick on the list ...............pity Ftdna closed down Ysearch


These are the people closest to you on Ysearch and of course Dalessio is the closest:

3THJ8 Jones Unknown
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 17 9 9 11 12 26 15 19 32 11 11 15 16 10 10 23 25 16 13 17 18 32 33 14 9

4MNH3 Schales Germany
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 26 15 20 33 11 15 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 17 17 34 34 14 9

CXMD6 Mozet Martin, Slovenia
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

R4VSF Reddick Florida, USA
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30

TB9PE Benedetto Bari, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 8 9 11 12 26 15 19 33 11 11 15 16 10 12 23 24 16 13 18 17 34 34 13 9


YSU4S Dalessio Selerno, Italy
13 22 13 10 13 13 11 12 11 14 13 30 16 9 9 11 12 27 15 19 35 11 11 15 16 10 11 23 25 16 13 19 16 34 34 14 9 12 11 15 11 8 17 17 8 11 10 8 12 11 20 20 17 10 12 12 15 8 26 21 11 12 14 10 11 12 11

It seems to me clear an expansion from the "Italian Refugium" Northwards as I think having demonstrated for other Y and mt haplogroups. Big Y or Full Y could say how old is this subclade of T-L446, i.e. if this haplogroup was in Italy many thousands of years ago or more recently. From this we'll be able to understand also the ethnic origin of this ancestor.


we don't know how really close they are to you, but amongst the people with at least 37 markers we can see that Dalessio is the closest to you in many markers and above all in DYS447: you have 28, Dalessio 27 and all the Northern Europeans 26. This is an important markers and clearly you are very close to Dalessio. Beyond this Italians are a little tested as to Central Europeans and above all the people from the Isles


It seems that your T is in Europe from at least 6800 years: From Western Black Sea area.




again from administrator ..................i forgot he states I am a Ladin from Italian Alps

About Dalessio there are two accounts on Ysearch: YSU4S and TTAWM. The contact person is always Carol Jacob. You may write her through Ysearch.
Of course she is probably an American and makes many mistakes:
1) the ancestors are one time "Ales Dalessio" with some variance in the surname: Delessio and D'Alessio"
2) The dates of birth and death 1995 (evidently for 1895) and 1968
3) The town of origin "Selerno" is very likely "Salerno" with an American pronunciation.
Everything is in favor of a D'Alessio from Salerno. This haplotype is diffused everywhere in Italy and very likely is here from many thousands of years. Beyond this your haplotype, even though certainly belonging to the same cluster, may be separated from thousands of years, that only a Big Y or a Full Genome could specify.

Your origin are very likely in that Ladin speaking region we spoke about elsewhere about the Niederstaetter's paper. Perhaps in the future I'll be able to say where this haplogroup was many thousands of years ago.


I do currently have a myheritage connection with a D'Alessio , but she states here original surname was Di Lessio and came from Caorle on the coast

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caorle

Huracan
02-02-21, 01:49
What do you mean by ...different ydna ?

They are all T1a2 branch ....our branch

you mentioned in 2014 , you are linked with them https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29626-Questions-on-my-Y-DNA-Haplogroup-T?p=435157&viewfull=1#post435157

The Freshour project background mentions three sons of Johann Georg Froschauer: Wendel, Georg, and John. The results page shows each son's descendants being of different Y-DNA (Wendel I-M170, John I-M223, Georg T-M70 [aka BY64684], and another named Jacob R-PH4276) so I'm having trouble connecting them all to the same father.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/freshour/about/results

Instead, I think they were just"categorized" like that and could be unrelated but just have the same surname or its variations. For my organizational purposes in creating the Y-STR phylogenies, I'll accept it as is and list the Frush/Froshour men as BY64684+ and hailing from Germany.

torzio
03-02-21, 18:06
The Freshour project background mentions three sons of Johann Georg Froschauer: Wendel, Georg, and John. The results page shows each son's descendants being of different Y-DNA (Wendel I-M170, John I-M223, Georg T-M70 [aka BY64684], and another named Jacob R-PH4276) so I'm having trouble connecting them all to the same father.

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/freshour/about/results

Instead, I think they were just"categorized" like that and could be unrelated but just have the same surname or its variations. For my organizational purposes in creating the Y-STR phylogenies, I'll accept it as is and list the Frush/Froshour men as BY64684+ and hailing from Germany.


https://i.postimg.cc/FRgMM843/frush.png (https://postimages.org/)

You do know that all the Frush people listed above has your snp of CTS1848 ...............which makes you closer to them , than myself

Huracan
04-02-21, 02:08
https://i.postimg.cc/FRgMM843/frush.png (https://postimages.org/)

You do know that all the Frush people listed above has your snp of CTS1848 ...............which makes you closer to them , than myself

Interesting I thought they were BY64684?

Also, Hulpeau from Belgium tested Z19950+



Gamma-1.1-D T-CTS1848 (confirmed/predicted)


327403
Jean Hulpeau, b. 1509 and d. 1589
Belgium
T-Z19950

torzio
06-02-21, 05:15
Interesting I thought they were BY64684?

Also, Hulpeau from Belgium tested Z19950+



Gamma-1.1-D T-CTS1848 (confirmed/predicted)


327403
Jean Hulpeau, b. 1509 and d. 1589
Belgium
T-Z19950




id:YF78879 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Matt Verona)
id:YF79187 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Francisco Bernot)
id:YF79186 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Paulino Bernot)
id:YF67318 BEL [BE-WHT]wln (Ed Bernot)
and
Jean Tillieux.........T-Z19950 > T-CTS1848>T-Z19945>T-CTS8862>etc.>T-CTS933>Y6055>T-L446>T-L131 Jean Tillieux/Belgium.. <<<<<<<< same as Jean Halpeau

All of these have your CTS1848 marker

Huracan
08-02-21, 04:29
Guess I was confused. I remember you saying the Brooks and Curtiss lines were related to Frush/Froschauer lines but if Frush is CTS1848 then they aren't closely related to the Brucke/Brooks/Curtiss. Will correct in my STR list and phylogeny.

torzio
08-02-21, 18:54
Guess I was confused. I remember you saying the Brooks and Curtiss lines were related to Frush/Froschauer lines but if Frush is CTS1848 then they aren't closely related to the Brucke/Brooks/Curtiss. Will correct in my STR list and phylogeny.

your group has Curtiss , Brooks and Frush lines and are shown Positive for CTS1848 regardless of what marker they are now, You are CTS1848 positive, does not matter what marker you end up in the future.



my group is Negative for CTS1848 , .........this group has Italian, Dutch, German, Poles, Scots ( Hill line, both carolina states in USA )


We are all positive for the group Z19945 .............but our branches split, either having positive CTS2214 or negative

Huracan
09-02-21, 18:45
your group has Curtiss , Brooks and Frush lines and are shown Positive for CTS1848 regardless of what marker they are now, You are CTS1848 positive, does not matter what marker you end up in the future.



my group is Negative for CTS1848 , .........this group has Italian, Dutch, German, Poles, Scots ( Hill line, both carolina states in USA )


We are all positive for the group Z19945 .............but our branches split, either having positive CTS2214 or negative

12559

12560

We're all Z19945 but the Brooks and Curtiss lines are not CTS1848

torzio
09-02-21, 19:51
12559

12560

We're all Z19945 but the Brooks and Curtiss lines are not CTS1848


These charts are not accurate ............eg in my SNP report I show that I am not even tested for CTS1848 , salento shows he is negative, Caquelin shows Positive, Halpeau shows positive, Vironet shows as positive,

Daniel Curtiss only shows as not being tested for it ...page 6

Salento on page 11 shows Negative

yourself on page 9 shows positive

this kit MI59655 shows positive

Sizemore shows negative

All 3 Bernot show positive

All the Knox kits, not tested for CTS1848

Laurent shows positive ...page 2

I went through all 76 pages and could not find Brooks

to conclude ..............ignore the tree you presented as it seems to be based on an incomplete SNP kit trees

torzio
09-02-21, 19:58
In the block tree in ftdna it shows all of these branches has CTS1848

https://i.postimg.cc/MK79RGT9/cts1848-block.png (https://postimages.org/)

so, I would not count the tree as being accurate in ftdna

Huracan
09-02-21, 23:57
In the block tree in ftdna it shows all of these branches has CTS1848

https://i.postimg.cc/MK79RGT9/cts1848-block.png (https://postimages.org/)

so, I would not count the tree as being accurate in ftdna

Thank you for this. Where can I access the block tree?

torzio
10-02-21, 00:05
Thank you for this. Where can I access the block tree?


You get access to block tree once you do BigY

Salento
10-02-21, 03:33
... sharing again since I was mentioned :)

Z19945 +
A15857 / CTS1848 -
BY143483 +
SK1480 +

https://i.imgur.com/Iofe38M.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ZrWIuLW.jpg

Duarte
10-02-21, 04:33
FTDNA yDNA T haplotree:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/T

torzio
10-02-21, 04:41
... sharing again since I was mentioned :)

Z19945 +
A15857 / CTS1848 -
BY143483 +
SK1480 +

https://i.imgur.com/Iofe38M.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ZrWIuLW.jpg


while under SNP area , your CTS1848 had negative ...................mine had nothing on CTS1848, i needed to go to BigY and below is my snippet

https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9NzHk/1848-as-neg.png (https://postimages.org/)


clearly ftdna snp markers and their trees , be it BigY or not are not in synch

Salento
10-02-21, 05:53
while under SNP area , your CTS1848 had negative ...................mine had nothing on CTS1848, i needed to go to BigY and below is my snippet

https://i.postimg.cc/TPM9NzHk/1848-as-neg.png (https://postimages.org/)


clearly ftdna snp markers and their trees , be it BigY or not are not in synch

I tested CTS1848 with FTDNA and Yseq (both negative), so that’s settled ...

torzio
18-02-21, 00:01
I have a paternal match as a 3rd-5th cousin with a person named
Ronald William Toigo

issue is , ftdna notes his ydna as L-M20

I cannot find his kit # .............any ideas would help


Many Toigo families come from Fanzaso town of Belluno province Veneto , other surnames that match with me from there are the Cemin family

Mr. T
25-03-21, 02:39
Y Haplogroup T Ancient samples in timeline order. Any additional samples please forward me

India Roopkund Lake B ( 150 yBP )
I3403 ( 147 ± 92 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a1b1a1b-Y21207
mtDNA: X2d

Lebanon Sidon Crusader ( 700 yBP - Medieval )
SI-42
Y-DNA: T1a - M70
mtDNA: J1b1a

Sweden Varnhem ( 950 yBP - Viking Age )
VK398
Y-DNA: T1a1b2a
mtDNA: H1b1+16362

Russia near Finland Ladoga Varangians ( 950 yBP - Viking Age )
VK17
Y-DNA: T1a1a1
mtDNA: U5a2a1b

Italy near France Collegno ( 1350 yBP - Early Medieval ) Longobard Period
CL23
Y-DNA: T1a1b1a1 - CTS6071
mtDNA: H

Hungary Szólád ( Early Medieval ) Lombard Period no carbon date
SZ36
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a1a2b2 - PF7275
mtDNA: U4c2a

Lebanon Qornet ed-Deir ( 1794 yBP - Roman )
QED-2
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2b2b1a - P77
mtDNA: T1

Kazakhstan Kok-Mardan ( 1800 yBP - Late Antiquity ) Kaunchi Culture ( Kangju )
DA125 ( 1755 ± 41 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a2a1a1-Y13279
mtDNA: U2e2a1

Israel Tel Abel Beth Maccah
I2201, Iron Age, 1011-846 calBCE
I2201
mtDNA: X2
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2 - CTS6280

Turkmenistan Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) Bactria Margiana (BMAC)
I1781 ( 3550 ± 30 yBP / 3841 yBP )
Y-DNA: T-M184
mtDNA: T1a1q

Israel Tel Megiddo
Middle-Late Bronze Age, 1971-1278 calBCE
I4518
mtDNA: HV2a1
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214

Syria Alalakh site
Middle-Late Bronze Age, 2111-1303 BC
ALA015
mtDNA: K1a
Y-DNA: T1a1a - L208

Syria Elba site
Middle Bronze Age I(Eblaite), 2000-1800 BCE
ETM026
mtDNA: K1a4
Y-DNA: T1a1 - L162

Iran Tepe Hissar C (4100 yBP- Bronze Age) Tepe Hissar Culture
I2514 ( 3915 ± 25 yBP / 4341 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a2a1a-Y13284
mtDNA: W3b

I2512 ( 4265 ± 25 yBP / 4846 yBP )
Y-DNA: T-M184
mtDNA: HV / HV9

Morocco Kehf-el-Baroud ( 4950 yBP - Late Neolithic )
( 4940 ± 30 yBP ) other: 5565 ± 65 yBP
KEB.6
Y-DNA: T1a1a - L162
mtDNA: K1a4a1

Russia Ipatovo 3 ( 5400 yBP - Early Bronze Age ) Early Steppe Maykop Culture
IV3002 ( 5383 ± 64 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1 -CTS6004 probablyT1a2a-Y8614
mtDNA: X1'2'3

Israel Peqi'in Cave ( 6150 yBP - Late Chalcolithic ) 9 Samples !! ! Most ever found in one place and 4th oldest samples
I1155
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: K1a

I1160
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: N1a1b

I1165
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: HV1a’b’c’

I1166
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: H

I1170
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: T1a2

I1172
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: K1a

I1178
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: I6

I1180
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: T

I1187
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: U6d
Peqi'in Cave atDNA notes: Northern origin. They also carry the WHG G allele for Blue eyes at Rs12913832.

Bulgaria Varna (6500 yBP-Chalcolithic) Varna Culture
ANI152
Y-DNA: T-Y3804 (x T1-Y3813)
mtDNA: U2

Germany Karsdorf ( 7100yBP - Early Neolithic ) LBK Culture
I0795
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: H1 or H1au1b*

I0797
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: H46b

Kars537 ( 6958 ± 49 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: J1c6a

Bulgaria Malak Preslavets ( 7600yBP - Mesolithic/Early Neolithic ) Criș Culture
I0700
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: T2e

I1108
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: T2e

Jordan 'Ain Ghazal ( 9600 yBP - Early Neolithic ) Late Middle PPNB ( 9573 ± 39 yBP )
Oldest Haplogroup T sample on record
I1707
Y-DNA: T1a - M70
mtDNA: R0a
Oldest Haplogroup T sample ever found

torzio
25-03-21, 03:52
Y Haplogroup T Ancient samples in timeline order. Any additional samples please forward me
India Roopkund Lake B ( 150 yBP )
I3403 ( 147 ± 92 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a1b1a1b-Y21207
mtDNA: X2d
Lebanon Sidon Crusader ( 700 yBP - Medieval )
SI-42
Y-DNA: T1a - M70
mtDNA: J1b1a
Sweden Varnhem ( 950 yBP - Viking Age )
VK398
Y-DNA: T1a1b2a
mtDNA: H1b1+16362
Russia near Finland Ladoga Varangians ( 950 yBP - Viking Age )
VK17
Y-DNA: T1a1a1
mtDNA: U5a2a1b
Italy near France Collegno ( 1350 yBP - Early Medieval ) Longobard Period
CL23
Y-DNA: T1a1b1a1 - CTS6071
mtDNA: H
Hungary Szólád ( Early Medieval ) Lombard Period no carbon date
SZ36
Y-DNA: T1a1a1a1a2b2 - PF7275
mtDNA: U4c2a
Lebanon Qornet ed-Deir ( 1794 yBP - Roman )
QED-2
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2b2b1a - P77
mtDNA: T1
Kazakhstan Kok-Mardan ( 1800 yBP - Late Antiquity ) Kaunchi Culture ( Kangju )
DA125 ( 1755 ± 41 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a2a1a1-Y13279
mtDNA: U2e2a1
Israel Tel Abel Beth Maccah
I2201, Iron Age, 1011-846 calBCE
I2201
mtDNA: X2
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2 - CTS6280
Turkmenistan Gonur Depe ( 3600 yBP - Bronze Age ) Bactria Margiana (BMAC)
I1781 ( 3550 ± 30 yBP / 3841 yBP )
Y-DNA: T-M184
mtDNA: T1a1q
Israel Tel Megiddo
Middle-Late Bronze Age, 1971-1278 calBCE
I4518
mtDNA: HV2a1
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
Syria Alalakh site
Middle-Late Bronze Age, 2111-1303 BC
ALA015
mtDNA: K1a
Y-DNA: T1a1a - L208
Syria Elba site
Middle Bronze Age I(Eblaite), 2000-1800 BCE
ETM026
mtDNA: K1a4
Y-DNA: T1a1 - L162
Iran Tepe Hissar C (4100 yBP- Bronze Age) Tepe Hissar Culture
I2514 ( 3915 ± 25 yBP / 4341 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a2a1a-Y13284
mtDNA: W3b
I2512 ( 4265 ± 25 yBP / 4846 yBP )
Y-DNA: T-M184
mtDNA: HV / HV9
Morocco Kehf-el-Baroud ( 4950 yBP - Late Neolithic )
( 4940 ± 30 yBP ) other: 5565 ± 65 yBP
KEB.6
Y-DNA: T1a1a - L162
mtDNA: K1a4a1
Russia Ipatovo 3 ( 5400 yBP - Early Bronze Age ) Early Steppe Maykop Culture
IV3002 ( 5383 ± 64 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1 -CTS6004 probablyT1a2a-Y8614
mtDNA: X1'2'3
Israel Peqi'in Cave ( 6150 yBP - Late Chalcolithic ) 9 Samples !! ! Most ever found in one place and 4th oldest samples
I1155
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: K1a
I1160
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: N1a1b
I1165
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: HV1a’b’c’
I1166
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: H
I1170
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: T1a2
I1172
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: K1a
I1178
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: I6
I1180
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: T
I1187
Y-DNA: T1a1a1b2 - CTS2214
mtDNA: U6d
Peqi'in Cave atDNA notes: Northern origin. They also carry the WHG G allele for Blue eyes at Rs12913832.
Bulgaria Varna (6500 yBP-Chalcolithic) Varna Culture
ANI152
Y-DNA: T-Y3804 (x T1-Y3813)
mtDNA: U2
Germany Karsdorf ( 7100yBP - Early Neolithic ) LBK Culture
I0795
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: H1 or H1au1b*
I0797
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: H46b
Kars537 ( 6958 ± 49 yBP )
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: J1c6a
Bulgaria Malak Preslavets ( 7600yBP - Mesolithic/Early Neolithic ) Criș Culture
I0700
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: T2e
I1108
Y-DNA: T1a1a2-Y63197
mtDNA: T2e
Jordan 'Ain Ghazal ( 9600 yBP - Early Neolithic ) Late Middle PPNB ( 9573 ± 39 yBP )
Oldest Haplogroup T sample on record
I1707
Y-DNA: T1a - M70
mtDNA: R0a
Oldest Haplogroup T sample ever found



I will get back to you

seems like you are using the older version of the branches of T

T1a1a = T1a1

T1a1b = T1a2

T1a2a = T1a3

pity there are 2 different system running for T ydna in the world of testing

Mr. T
25-03-21, 21:46
I will get back to you

seems like you are using the older version of the branches of T

T1a1a = T1a1

T1a1b = T1a2

T1a2a = T1a3

pity there are 2 different system running for T ydna in the world of testing

Thanks, yeah.. it's a little confusing .. I looked on isogg and apparently there was a change from 2015 to 2016 for example T1a1a1a (Z709) became T1a1a1b2b

torzio
26-03-21, 19:52
Thanks, yeah.. it's a little confusing .. I looked on isogg and apparently there was a change from 2015 to 2016 for example T1a1a1a (Z709) became T1a1a1b2b


T was called K2 in 2008 and earlier

torzio
31-03-21, 01:07
New T1a2-BY60539

Johann Christoph Gräßer is born in 1750 at Gräfenroda, Thüringen. His father and grandfather were from Holzhausen and Alkersleben
Mtdna = K1a2b


Exact same marker as Christopher Kile, 1747 - 1795

Huracan
07-04-21, 04:06
Does anyone know about these two kits in our grouping of the FTDNA T Project?

IN90821 - no info listed. Placed between Laurent and Hulpeau, guessing it could be Z19950+ or even BY160604+

562486 - no info listed. Placed in the Bernot cluster, guessing it could be FT158444/BY71340+ and maybe another Bernot that tested

torzio
07-04-21, 07:48
Does anyone know about these two kits in our grouping of the FTDNA T Project?

IN90821 - no info listed. Placed between Laurent and Hulpeau, guessing it could be Z19950+ or even BY160604+

562486 - no info listed. Placed in the Bernot cluster, guessing it could be FT158444/BY71340+ and maybe another Bernot that tested


Hulpeau iirc is a french hugenout from Lorraine France...

Laurent has been chatting in ftdna T and is in here somewhere, she wrote for her brother.....

Bernot samples are .............Edwardo Bernot and his cousins, Paulino and Francisco .....

Vironet is surname Verona now, as Vironet is a fabricated orphanage name .......matching another T-Z19950 surname Tilleaux Namur.Belgium

562486 iirc is via Verona and linked with
Erspamer, Baltasare Giovanni (1704 - ) - male b. 4 Feb 1704 father: Erspamer, Giovanni (b1671 - ) mother: Grumer, Dorotea (~1674 - )

I need to reconfirm a few of these,

torzio
07-04-21, 07:52
other T1a2

Cristoforo Iacobini (16th century, near Rome, Italy).

torzio
08-04-21, 05:20
Another 1 step away match with myself in ftdna

Another Hill surname

Isaac Hill Sr.
b. 22 Jul 1748 - St. Mary's County, Province of Maryland
d. 29 Jul 1825 - Hill Trace, Warren County, Tennessee, United States

torzio
08-04-21, 23:07
running through old Ysearch matches for me from 2014-2018

so, far 6 matches from ysearch also appear for me in ftdna

missing are ( bold surnames ) who are same step match as myself

Frederich Wilhelm Ahmann and Marie Bernadine Elisabeth Ahmann (born Steinigeweg). Frederich was born on March 20 1830, in Lienen, Tecklenburg, Prussia.
Marie was born on January 8 1837, in Lienen, Tecklenburg, Prussia.



Filippo Lippi 16th century from Arezzo italy .....................also matched me in the Sorenson program



Teaford married a Catherine Runkle ........................from Nancy France

torzio
15-05-21, 20:16
Yfull still do not use SK1480 , even though I have it and am positive for it

they did recently add these for me as 5-stars
CTS11819 • PF2766 • M3761


noted from this area
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsurblia_Cave

so I still sit under
T-BY143483

but ftdna has me one lower at T-SK1480

torzio
15-05-21, 20:43
recent Ydna match with me


surname
Kerschbaumerfrom.....Frangart, Eppan, Tirol, Österreich


have asked the family to do a dna test

I really don't know how 23andme find these Ydna matches ? ................very odd

torzio
30-05-21, 20:58
@Salento

interesting is that in Ftdna advanced matches, yourself, myself and the Pole have zero differences in the STR's

and , our closest relatives in ftdna is the Brooks, Curtiss people who come from the Frush T1a2-CTS933 group ( around , southern old east-germany ) ......the Frush are linked to the Froschauer group ( sometimes called Freshour )

contacting a person from the group stated the most common link via surname is with ( speculation I think, but might have some value )
Fusar is probably from Trieste,
Fusari seems to have more in Lombardy, Verona and Vicenza, Emilia and Romagna, Ancona and Aquila.
Fusarri, extremely rare, is also Lombard, Milanese and Bergamo area.
Fusaro is present between Lombardy, Veneto, Piedmont and Liguria, but the main nucleuses are in the southern peninsular, Fusaroli is specific to Cesena and Cesenatico and Ravenna.
Fuser is in the area between Venice and Treviso

I do have family ties with the Fuser who are from Istrana

Salento
30-05-21, 22:20
@Salento

interesting is that in Ftdna advanced matches, yourself, myself and the Pole have zero differences in the STR's

and , our closest relatives in ftdna is the Brooks, Curtiss people who come from the Frush T1a2-CTS933 group ( around , southern old east-germany ) ......the Frush are linked to the Froschauer group ( sometimes called Freshour )

contacting a person from the group stated the most common link via surname is with ( speculation I think, but might have some value )
Fusar is probably from Trieste,
Fusari seems to have more in Lombardy, Verona and Vicenza, Emilia and Romagna, Ancona and Aquila.
Fusarri, extremely rare, is also Lombard, Milanese and Bergamo area.
Fusaro is present between Lombardy, Veneto, Piedmont and Liguria, but the main nucleuses are in the southern peninsular, Fusaroli is specific to Cesena and Cesenatico and Ravenna.
Fuser is in the area between Venice and Treviso

I do have family ties with the Fuser who are from Istrana

… cool, the Brooks and the Curtiss are Colonial Era y T :

John/1f Brooks, b a1640-d 1695 Stratford, CT USA

Daniel Curtiss b.1695 Stratford CT USA

Daniel CURTISS b.1652 - Stratford, CT USA

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/BrooksSurnameDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

torzio
05-06-21, 23:35
Interesting chit chat in ftdna on T-CTS1848

3 new members

Hulpeau b. 1509 Belgium .............origins Flanders

Richtera ......Czech

Hortvik.....Czech b. 1615


@salento.....I don't know what it means for us as we are negative for CTS1848.............but it is below us in our branch

torzio
10-06-21, 08:57
@salento

More T1a2 ydna ................look like a younger branch .................Fischer family , 7 in number

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/fischer?iframe=yresults

one has a gedmatch #

Salento
10-06-21, 14:38
@salento

More T1a2 ydna ................look like a younger branch .................Fischer family , 7 in number

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/fischer?iframe=yresults

one has a gedmatch #

@Torzio … distant MRCA, … see settings, … he matches the Germans, so he's probably closer to you.

https://i.imgur.com/nl5C3Ck.jpg

torzio
15-06-21, 19:09
I will check what I can find about Blarer

Erspamer has there ftdna site
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/erspamer-family-tree-dna-project/dna-results

his ancestors are in this link

http://valdinonusa.com/search.php?mylastname=ERSPAMER&lnqualify=equals&mybool=AND

I am not connected with this erspamer ( above ) unless they are cousins ............I cannot work it out

I was sent this information on my link with the Erspamer

Giovanni Giuseppe b. 1826 ...............with my line ....her ( Maddalena ) grandfather married a Miotto while my line was with his first wife which was a Robazza
Giovanni b.1793 ..........Marianna Sartor
Gasparo b.1741 .........Maria Targher
Gasparo b. 1712 ..........Angela Rech
Leonardo b. 1673 .........Apolloina Rella
Antonio b. 1640 ............Barbara Port
Leonardo b. 1614 ...........Brigida Trette
Antonio b. 1582 ...........Cattarina Rolle

torzio
15-06-21, 22:35
I am not connected with this erspamer ( above ) unless they are cousins ............I cannot work it out

I was sent this information on my link with the Erspamer

Giovanni Giuseppe b. 1826 ...............with my line ....her ( Maddalena ) grandfather married a Miotto while my line was with his first wife which was a Robazza
Giovanni b.1793 ..........Marianna Sartor
Gasparo b.1741 .........Maria Targher
Gasparo b. 1712 ..........Angela Rech
Leonardo b. 1673 .........Apolloina Rella
Antonio b. 1640 ............Barbara Port
Leonardo b. 1614 ...........Brigida Trette
Antonio b. 1582 ...........Cattarina Rolle


Sartor is the venetian word for tailor
gher is a typical friuli surname ending............same as net and others
Rech is found from Trentino to Venice over many centuries
Rella is typical pugliese surname
Port , only found in trentino
Rolle.....from Piedmont to trentino
the others I will check

Salento
16-06-21, 20:27
…. ‘sarto’ is the general term for ‘taylor’ in Italian too :)

Rollo (Rella in Northern Italy) … is mainly a Salentina Peninsula surname.
I know many ‘Rollo’ in my town.

https://www.cognomix.it/origine-cognome/rollo.php

torzio
16-06-21, 22:56
…. ‘sarto’ is the general term for ‘taylor’ in Italian too :)

Rollo (Rella in Northern Italy) … is mainly a Salentina Peninsula surname.
I know many ‘Rollo’ in my town.

https://www.cognomix.it/origine-cognome/rollo.php


ok but her surname was Rella .............bulk is found in Puglia and some in Trentino and other places...check below

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/RELLA

Salento
17-06-21, 04:26
ok but her surname was Rella .............bulk is found in Puglia and some in Trentino and other places...check below

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/RELLA

Rella / Rollo - Potayto / Potahto :-)

… the majority of the Rella are in Puglia, and the majority of the Rollo are in Salento, … and as you know Salento is part of Puglia.

torzio
17-06-21, 08:58
Rella / Rollo - Potayto / Potahto :-)

… the majority of the Rella are in Puglia, and the majority of the Rollo are in Salento, … and as you know Salento is part of Puglia.


ok ................scribes can make many errors or names are changed slightly from one family to another

torzio
22-06-21, 23:14
@Salento

I have a new ftdna T person , genetic distance 0 ................surname Gue ..............do you have this as well?

found a link to the ancestors

Francesco b.1883 in Italy

father is Alfonso b.1853 in Italy ............wife is surname Galen


not sure , but could be from Foggia Italy ...............but Galen is a Veneto surname

..................................
Also found in Taggia, Liguria

.............................................
further history states oldest Gue is from Brittany France circa 1450

Salento
23-06-21, 00:08
@Salento

I have a new ftdna T person , genetic distance 0 ................surname Gue ..............do you have this as well?

found a link to the ancestors

Francesco b.1883 in Italy

father is Alfonso b.1853 in Italy ............wife is surname Galen


not sure , but could be from Foggia Italy ...............but Galen is a Veneto surname

..................................
Also found in Taggia, Liguria

.............................................
further history states oldest Gue is from Brittany France circa 1450

I don’t see any Gue / Galen, though I did find a Sartori. Maybe related to your Sartor.

torzio
23-06-21, 01:19
I don’t see any Gue / Galen, though I did find a Sartori. Maybe related to your Sartor.

just found out that Gue is his adoptive surname ....the person was born as a Dobson

torzio
23-06-21, 04:05
just found out that Gue is his adoptive surname ....the person was born as a Dobson


I have written to Ken and found his grandfather was named Aefria/o ( b 1863 ) which is an italian christian name................Dobson could be a name used for when he migrated to USA ..............Aefria wife was name marie( b. 1875 ) Kamprich and was born in Germany

torzio
02-07-21, 19:48
with the new ftdna matching system, I got my 3rd.... L-M20 match on my paternal side ......must be a marriage/s some where ............they all originate in Trentino or Vincenza province of Veneto

so the surnames in question are

Corse
Rentenbach
Cielo
Toigo

Another L ydna is surnamed Bergamo .......I am chatting with him ATM

torzio
24-07-21, 23:34
my map from myheritage

https://i.postimg.cc/F1XsR5nZ/my-map1650.png (https://postimages.org/)

I have been in contact with a German recently in trying to find a link in the map for me.

I have found a link with 2 families from Pederobba , Veneto and a german family from Trier and westeldorf Germany ( same area on map) names H.Welend and wife C. Andries .............their line went back and forth between these areas plus switzerland.
Checking my DNA in myheritage, my line and father line share DNA segments from 8 families in the Pederobba town, in Veneto, Italy

This is all prior to the year 1780

torzio
03-08-21, 20:47
After ftdna latest update ....the BigY for T-Z19945 has 17 branches coming out of it

with only 18 members shown nationality and 5 unshown

most is 6 belgiums and next is 3 italians ...............only 1 non-european ..a Turk

one of the Belgiums is the fabricated surname of vironet ........chat with ancestor Matt Verona for true ancestors...................they seem to be from Luoco friuli circa 1650

i am not sure on the accuracy of ftdna anymore

torzio
28-09-21, 20:57
@salento

got a note from a Casto family from NZ who are T ydna ......noted as 3rd to 5th cousin with myself

they state
came to NZ from USA
in USA from 1775
In England prior to 1775

In Germany prior to UK circa 1600

origin of family is from Apulia Italy



I checked today Casto surname in Apulia'
La distribuzione geografica del cognome Casto nella Regione Puglia

Lecce (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/LECCE) x 180
Taranto (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/TARANTO) x 14

Foggia (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/FOGGIA) x 9


Brindisi (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/BRINDISI) x 2

Bari (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/BARI) x 2

These are households and not individuals


You come across anything for this surname ?

torzio
28-09-21, 21:00
Only other 80% plus DNA march is with a family from Lombardy surname Corna

I asked them what their Ydna is if they have it

Salento
28-09-21, 22:15
@salento

got a note from a Casto family from NZ who are T ydna ......noted as 3rd to 5th cousin with myself

they state
came to NZ from USA
in USA from 1775
In England prior to 1775

In Germany prior to UK circa 1600

origin of family is from Apulia Italy



I checked today Casto surname in Apulia'
La distribuzione geografica del cognome Casto nella Regione Puglia

Lecce (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/LECCE) x 180
Taranto (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/TARANTO) x 14

Foggia (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/FOGGIA) x 9


Brindisi (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/BRINDISI) x 2

Bari (https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/CASTO/PUGLIA/BARI) x 2

These are households and not individuals


You come across anything for this surname ?

I don't know anyone by that surname.

If the family left Apulia in the 1600s, and the vast majority of the Casto reside in the province of Lecce, it is reasonable to assume that they’re Salentini.

torzio
29-09-21, 20:08
I have written to Ken and found his grandfather was named Aefria/o ( b 1863 ) which is an italian christian name................Dobson could be a name used for when he migrated to USA ..............Aefria wife was name marie( b. 1875 ) Kamprich and was born in Germany





Aefria E Dobson


Gender
Male


Birth
Jan 1863 Iowa, United States



Residence
1900 Precincts A & B, Seward, Nebraska, USA



Age
37


Marital status
Married


Marriage
Circa 1893


Race
White


Ethnicity
American


Wife
Mary Dobson


Children
Jesse Dobson
Herbert Dobson
Leslie Dobson

torzio
29-09-21, 20:36
Aefria E Dobson


Gender
Male


Birth
Jan 1863 Iowa, United States


Residence
1900 Precincts A & B, Seward, Nebraska, USA


Age
37


Marital status
Married


Marriage
Circa 1893


Race
White


Ethnicity
American


Wife
Mary Dobson


Children
Jesse Dobson
Herbert Dobson
Leslie Dobson





https://i.postimg.cc/597BgQvx/aefria.png (https://postimages.org/)

torzio
29-09-21, 20:56
https://i.postimg.cc/597BgQvx/aefria.png (https://postimages.org/)


Leslie Nlysess Dodson 24/1/1900 to 12/3/1989 married Ventla ( born in Finland )

His father was dead by 1917 when leslie enlisted for WW1

the Gue seems to be the mother Ventla surname


This seems to be the end of my exact Ydna match with Kenneth Gue in ftdna

torzio
30-09-21, 19:44
Leslie Nlysess Dodson 24/1/1900 to 12/3/1989 married Ventla ( born in Finland )

father was dead by 1917 when leslie enlisted for WW1

the Gue seems to be the mother Ventla surname


This seems to be the end of my exact Ydna match with Kenneth Gue in ftdna

Correction........Gue surname is an ancient french surname usually associated with the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine

Gue Name MeaningFrench (Gué): topographic name for someone who lived near a ford, from Old French wad ‘ford’, ‘crossing place’.

torzio
02-10-21, 19:14
In yfull I have lost all STR matches except for ancestor of Matt Verona
Nicolas Vironet, b. 1818, Mons, Belgium, d. 1874, Jumet, Belgium Belgium T-Y61337
the Y61337 is a new branch and moves the person away from the Bernot family
Nicolas Vironet is shown in the site, finding a grave and is noted that Vironet is a fabricated orphan surname

torzio
11-10-21, 22:38
In Yfull a second Vironet is linked with my self

Nicolas Vironet, b. 1818, Mons, Belgium, d. 1874, Jumet, Belgium Belgium YF90988

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/210952969/nicolas-vironet

I have found that Vironet is a fabricated surname ...............but I have also found their is a set of identical DNA from a family with surname Bichot ...............they appear in 2 places ..............Burgundy France and the Catalan area next to the french border

the oldest is

family Bichot have been in Burgundy since 1350.

Burgundians lived in southern France pre 13th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Burgundy

Huracan
14-10-21, 02:11
In Yfull a second Vironet is linked with my self
Nicolas Vironet, b. 1818, Mons, Belgium, d. 1874, Jumet, Belgium Belgium YF90988
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/210952969/nicolas-vironet
I have found that Vironet is a fabricated surname ...............but I have also found their is a set of identical DNA from a family with surname Bichot ...............they appear in 2 places ..............Burgundy France and the Catalan area next to the french border
the oldest is
family Bichot have been in Burgundy since 1350.
Burgundians lived in southern France pre 13th century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Burgundy

Where did you find these Bichot individuals? Are they on a site?

torzio
14-10-21, 03:19
Where did you find these Bichot individuals? Are they on a site?

Still checking out where this identical comes from

But mr. Verona and I had a long chat ( messages yesterday ) and he states ..........part of a very long text

Marguerite FOURNIER abandoned Laurent's 2nd GGF, Jean Claude Fournier, at birth, in Paris, 1835.
Since she abandoned the baby at a hospice with no foundling wheel, she had to give her name, which was recorded.
We suspect that this lady abandoned my 2nd GGF, Nicolas Vironet, 17 years earlier, as a teenager.
I sent Laurent my spare Big Y-700 kit, a $450 early Christmas gift, LOL, so we can prove that we don't share the same 3rd GGF... if we have no Y-DNA match, then Marguerite is probably our MRCA.
We also found a solid triangulated match on chromosome 14 with some of the same Vironets from chromosome 7.
His name is Marcel Jacques Fournier, living in Felleries,
Marguerite FOURNIER wasn't married, and the father is unknown in the hospice records for Jean Claude.
So Jean Claude was given his mother's family name.
(Since Marguerite has a history of abandoning babies, I wouldn't be surprised if she was a French prostitute, lol)

So I am checking if Marguerite was impregnated by a Bichot

you need to check Geneanet for the Vironet and Fournier lines to make it clear