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Angela
18-03-14, 22:37
These are some representative 23andme Ancestry Comp results from Tuscans and northern Italians to which I have or had access. They are "speculative" results as per the drop down menu. For reasons I have described elsewhere I believe that 23andme is unduly stringent in making these calls, and these results are both reliable and comport more with ancestry within any sort of reasonable time frame. (Middle Eastern in 23andme terminology is Turkey (as well as Armenia) and Iran...

This may stretch over a couple of posts because of the space required for the results.

A 100% Tuscan:
6302

Another 100% Tuscan:
6303

Angela
18-03-14, 22:40
Group 2

Eastern Ligurian/Lunigianese
6317

Western Ligurian/Piemontese

6318

Angela
18-03-14, 22:43
Person with 100% Ancestry from the Veneto:

6306

Friulano
6307

Sile
19-03-14, 01:21
@angela

post #1................second attachment does not work

Post #2 ..............no attachments

Mine below ....................I guess I must be a Trentin, Tyrolese, North Veneto ( bolzano/Belluno ) or Ladin person

http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/856/ibuf.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/856/ibuf.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us



(http://imageshack.com)http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/593/3mxk.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/593/3mxk.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

--All the black drops around my green drop are all Veneti
--The low black drop is a Umbrian
--The far left drop is a Frisian ( netherlands)
-- The furthest right from me is Fla88 ( Ligurian mother and Veneto father)


and from Stanford Univ. below


http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/547/5ktn.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/5ktn.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

Angela
19-03-14, 02:14
I just rechecked and all the attachments are working fine. Perhaps you should refresh the page.

Are those your results on speculative? Would you please post screenshots of all three sets of your data so that we can see the progression? The pattern can always be followed. In other words, screenshots of the conservative, standard, and speculative results. That would be helpful.

For example, you can see the progression here: Liguria/Lunigiana area.

Conservative:
6313

Standard
6314

Speculative:
6310

These kind of ridiculous results at Conservative, and even at Standard are not limited to Italians.

Coolboygcp
19-03-14, 02:54
@angela

post #1................second attachment does not work

Post #2 ..............no attachments

Mine below ....................I guess I must be a Trentin, Tyrolese, North Veneto ( bolzano/Belluno ) or Ladin person

http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/856/ibuf.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/856/ibuf.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us



(http://imageshack.com)http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/593/3mxk.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/593/3mxk.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

--All the black drops around my green drop are all Veneti
--The low black drop is a Umbrian
--The far left drop is a Frisian ( netherlands)
-- The furthest right from me is Fla88 ( Ligurian mother and Veneto father)


and from Stanford Univ. below


http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/547/5ktn.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/547/5ktn.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

Your results are quite shocking. It appears you have a bit Middle Eastern/North African, East Asian/Native American,and Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. I wonder how that could be? (especially the East Asian/Native American ancestry.)

LeBrok
19-03-14, 03:23
Your results are quite shocking. It appears you have a bit Middle Eastern/North African, East Asian/Native American,and Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. I wonder how that could be? (especially the East Asian/Native American ancestry.) People move around and have sex. :grin:

Angela
19-03-14, 04:03
People move around and have sex. :grin:

And there you have population genetics explained in six words. Nicely done, Le Brok. :)

Sile
19-03-14, 06:04
I just rechecked and all the attachments are working fine. Perhaps you should refresh the page.

Are those your results on speculative? Would you please post screenshots of all three sets of your data so that we can see the progression? The pattern can always be followed. In other words, screenshots of the conservative, standard, and speculative results. That would be helpful.

For example, you can see the progression here: Liguria/Lunigiana area.

Conservative:
6313

Standard
6314

Speculative:
6310

These kind of ridiculous results at Conservative, and even at Standard are not limited to Italians.

Mine are speculative as you suggested.

If I went standard, then East asian, North African, Sardinian, balkan, Iberian, british and irish and eastern European would disappear............they would be zero ( thats why I said they are speculative)

Sile
19-03-14, 06:05
Your results are quite shocking. It appears you have a bit Middle Eastern/North African, East Asian/Native American,and Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. I wonder how that could be? (especially the East Asian/Native American ancestry.)

Results under 23andme fantasy ..........called speculative results

Sile
19-03-14, 06:14
I just rechecked and all the attachments are working fine. Perhaps you should refresh the page.

Are those your results on speculative? Would you please post screenshots of all three sets of your data so that we can see the progression? The pattern can always be followed. In other words, screenshots of the conservative, standard, and speculative results. That would be helpful.

For example, you can see the progression here: Liguria/Lunigiana area.

Conservative:
6313

Standard
6314

Speculative:
6310

These kind of ridiculous results at Conservative, and even at Standard are not limited to Italians.

60% genetic match with this family ( link below) .............my highest match...
next highest.....the 45% match but has still not communicated with me
http://www.coroparrocchialetassullo.it/dermulo_file/dermulostory/Genealogia/PretH.htm

http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/835/ir4l.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/835/ir4l.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

conservative


http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/89/qt2s.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/89/qt2s.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

standard

Sile
19-03-14, 06:28
Group 2

Eastern Ligurian/Lunigianese

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6304&d=1395175374&thumb=1 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6304&d=1395175374)

Western Ligurian/Piemontese

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6305&d=1395175429&thumb=1 (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6305&d=1395175429)

I see no attachments even after refresh

Angela
19-03-14, 18:02
60% genetic match with this family ( link below) .............my highest match...
next highest.....the 45% match but has still not communicated with me
http://www.coroparrocchialetassullo.it/dermulo_file/dermulostory/Genealogia/PretH.htm

http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/835/ir4l.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/835/ir4l.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

conservative


http://imageshack.com/scaled/medium/89/qt2s.jpg (http://imageshack.com/photo/my-images/89/qt2s.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.com)

standard

There you go again...

I posted the conservative, standard and speculative results of one Eastern Ligurian/Lunigianese. I said it would be helpful to me, and perhaps to you, if you did the same with your results, i.e. posted your conservative and standard results screenshots as well as the speculative ones you say you have already posted. Instead you post results from some other person.

What? How is that relevant to understanding what is going on with your results on Ancestry Comp or anyone else's. for that matter, as one passes up the different levels?

If you don't choose to reveal screenshots of your conservative and standard results so that we can follow the progression to your speculative results, fine, that's your perogative. Just say so.

I have checked the links on Post #2 and they are currently working. I don't know why the Attachment link for the second Tuscan is not working. I'll try again below. As with all the other sample results I have posted the person has ancestry in the area going back at least 500 years.

6319

He winds up with .5% Middle East too.

For non-23andme users, the reference populations for "Middle East" in the 23andme system are generally Turkey (think also Armenians etc.) and Iran.

Sile
19-03-14, 18:34
There you go again...

I posted the conservative, standard and speculative results of one Eastern Ligurian/Lunigianese. I said it would be helpful to me, and perhaps to you, if you did the same with your results, i.e. posted your conservative and standard results screenshots as well as the speculative ones you say you have already posted. Instead you post results from some other person.

what are you talking about..........they are my results...1st one is speculative and other 2 on the same post, are as I stated

DO you want me to repost the SAME 3 results as I already posted which are ONLY mine on a separate post for ease of use?....


What? How is that relevant to understanding what is going on with your results on Ancestry Comp or anyone else's. for that matter, as one passes up the different levels?


I do not understand............they are my results no -one elses

The attached link of that family is the one sent by the 60% matching person with me, one which I share his surname ( part of).....It has nothing to do with the results.

From current day to 1685 I have registrar papers ( i.e birth, death and marriages )...............I just need a further 3 generations to see if I link up with the linked family.




I have checked the links on Post #2 and they are currently working. I don't know why the Attachment link for the second Tuscan is not working. I'll try again below. As with all the other sample results I have posted the person has ancestry in the area going back at least 500 years.

6319

Cheer up, he has .5% Middle East too.

I see the attachment now in miniture , but cannot enlarge it



If it makes you feel any better, you do know that the reference populations for "Middle East" in the 23andme system are generally Turkey (think also Armenians etc.) and Iran. Or perhaps that's still upsetting?

I am not upset with what markers I get, I just like to see the accuracy.....would not care if I came from siberia, south-Africa or timbuktu ........just give me the truth.
all I know is, all markers came from outside of Europe , unless you are 20% or more neanderthal.

In regards to middle-east and east asian.............my x-chromosome has about 6% of south-asian ...........could be from there

Sile
19-03-14, 18:41
As I said, 23andme lack accuracy...................they merge france and Germany into ONE block and have no idea on what is in that block.......they cannot separate, Swiss, Austrians, Belgiums, dutch, Luxembourgers, Czechs, danish and anyone else I missed in that zone

Sile
19-03-14, 18:56
Another forum , which has the same issue with 23andme........ie. the AC part

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?773-Puzzling-Ancestry-Composition-result-in-relation-to-X-chromosome&p=34434#post34434

LeBrok
20-03-14, 09:46
And there you have population genetics explained in six words. Nicely done, Le Brok. :)
My subscription to occam's razor is self evident, isn't it? ;)

Sile
20-03-14, 19:47
@Angela

I am waiting for you!

Angela
20-03-14, 21:21
Do you really expect me to engage in a civil conversation with you when this is how you approach me? I am neither a dog nor a child to be so summoned.

When I wish to draw someone's attention to a post of mine that they may have missed or been too busy to address, I send a respectful PM.

You do your mother no credit. Mend your manners.

My ignore list has now grown by 1

Sile
21-03-14, 08:00
Do you really expect me to engage in a civil conversation with you when this is how you approach me? I am neither a dog nor a child to be so summoned.

When I wish to draw someone's attention to a post of mine that they may have missed or been too busy to address, I send a respectful PM.

You do your mother no credit. Mend your manners.

My ignore list has now grown by 1

I don't know what you are complaining about, I used the correct formal term for you, I was careful , I used "waiting for"......I did not use the servitude one "waiting on"



I also draw readers' attention to German "warten auf", which means "to wait on / for" something and the fact that "auf" is cognate with English "on". That German and English were the same language many hundreds of years ago is also evidence that "wait on" is the older form, and that "wait for" is the upstart.

In conclusion "wait on" has just as much of a claim to "correctness" as "wait for". Use whichever you want, and know that if you use "wait on" then you are using the language of Shakespeare. Of course you should also know that nowadays "wait for" is more common and more formal. If that is important to you, then go with the upstart.

Here's what the Columbia Guide to Standard American English has to say: "This final sense ["wait on" = wait for"] is limited to casual, impromptu and informal use and is probably heard mainly in Midland and Southern regional dialect areas; Standard English prefers wait for instead".

This is the second time you attacked me, just because I disagree with your opinion of 23andme, there are many who share my opinion.

You asked for my results, I send them to you in good faith and you complain. You are far too sensitive or your taught some type of American-English which does not have the same meaning as true English.

Sile
09-04-14, 20:25
New Paper: 4cM Matches are usually wrong in unphased data (which 23andme uses)

An important paper just came out regarding false segments seen when using non-phased data and segments of 4cM or smaller.

I have analyzed the paper and attempted to translate it's findings into plain English below.

BOTTOM LINE:

Unphased data such as 23andme, FamilyTreeDNA (everyone, really) uses is more often inaccurate for smaller segments. Specifically:

4cM segment matches with strangers are only real (IBD) 33% of the time. 67% of the time they are false-positives (pseudo-segments) caused by using unphased data.
6cM segment matches with strangers are usually real.

So DNA Relatives with a 7cM threshold (as well as a number of SNPs in the segment threshold) are very likely real IBD and those tiny 2cM, 3cM, 4cM segments that people are seeing in Gedmatch etc. are likely (67% of the time) *not* real (IBD).

ABSTRACT URL:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1311.1120

FULL TEXT URL:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.1120v1

PAPER TITLE: "Reducing pervasive false positive identical-by-descent segments detected by large-scale pedigree analysis"

MY TRANSLATION INTO ENGLISH FROM TECHNO-SPEAK:

Study looked at segments on Chromosome 21.

A total of 25,432 individuals of European ancestry were used in the study.

Of this total, they used 2,952 Mother/Father/Child "Trios" in order to be able to phase the child's results. The rest of the people in the study were (presumed) unrelated people (what I will call "strangers") used to identify possible segment matches with the child for further analysis.

In the 2,952 Mother/Father/Child Trios they found 13,307,562 2cM-4cM segments that the child matched with one or more of the "strangers".

They then analyzed how many of these segments were also shared by the child's parents (meaning that they are real segments IBD (Identical By Decent)) and found the following:

14% of the segments that the child matched with the stranger were found in a parent. (Could be identified as real IBD segments)
25% of the these segments were partially found in a parent (a shorter "truncated" segment was found in a parent)
61% of these segments were not found at all in the parent.

They checked all of the segments not completely found in the parent to see if testing errors (mis-calls, etc.) or other "false positives" could account for it. They found that testing errors could only account for 3% of the differences (97% were real differences in the segments).

They decided to allow that some of the 25% segments seen partially (truncated in) the parent were probably real, and a result of difficulty in determining start and end points for segments (possibly due using SNP data and different and microdeletions, insertions, etc.?). Specifically, they said that 80% of these were likely real, so 20% were likely not real. (20% of 25%) + 61% = 66% which they rounded up to 67%.

They put the reason for the likely false segments between parents and children as being due to testing services using unphased data, such that the child has a segment which is a combination of segments from both parents and, in the child, appears that it *could* be a real segment but, in reality, is not. (What I call a "pseudo-segment.")

Other Data Found:

Of all segments found between the child and a stranger, over 98% were shorter than 4 cM. So only 2% of all matches between the child and a stranger were 4cM or more.

Most segments longer than 6cM are real segments, but this correspondence "drops rapidly as segment length is reduced."

..............................
I will have to re evaluate by matches now ( above was not written by me)

Angela
10-04-14, 00:46
There are numerous threads on the 23andme site where knowledgeable posters made these points years ago. People who aren't long time members would benefit from doing site searches.

I personally haven't looked at any matches below 5cm for years now. It's just a waste of time. Actually, I don't usually bother with anything below the 23andme threshold. At that level it seems to be pretty accurate.

Pax Augusta
07-09-14, 12:46
Your results are quite shocking. It appears you have a bit Middle Eastern/North African, East Asian/Native American,and Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. I wonder how that could be? (especially the East Asian/Native American ancestry.)

0,1 % and 0,5 % are irrelevant results.