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mihaitzateo
23-03-14, 23:26
No idea if people here have seen it,but there was an online poll.
96% voted that Veneto should get autonomous from Italy.
(no idea how many people from Veneto voted,in this poll,I think is like 750.000).
http://www.vice.com/read/veneto-would-like-to-be-italys-crimea
What are your thoughts about this?
What I understood is that they are unhappy with how much money are returning to this region,from how much money they are giving to Italy budget (they give there about 70 billions Euros every year).

mihaitzateo
23-03-14, 23:49
A very interesting statistics,of regions of Italy by GDP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_regions_by_GDP_%28PPP%29

Sile
24-03-14, 08:17
some information below

The vast majority of Veneto region residents who voted in the referendum on independence from Italy are in favor of secession, organizers of the referendum announced in Treviso on Friday. During the five-day online referendum, 2.3 million people voted - 2.1 million for independence and 257,256 against it. The crowd who gathered on the main square in Treviso greeted the result chanting "Independence," holding Venetian and Russian flags. Yet, despite the positive results, the referendum is not legally binding. Veneto existed as a sovereign state for more than 1,000 years, but it lost its independence in 1797.

and

Over 89 percent of residents in Italy's Veneto region have voted in an official referendum in favor of independence from the rest of the country as Venetians seek to restore the glory of the old days by creating a state of their own.

Over two million residents of Veneto – the region of Italy surrounding Venice – took part in the so-called 'Veneto independence referendum' that lasted from Sunday to Friday. The survey, conducted online and backed by the region’s independence parties, has no legal power but aims to gather support for a bill calling for a referendum.
The poll also asked residents if they want the region to keep the euro and remain part of the European Union and NATO if it declares its independence. More than 55 percent of voters said they would prefer an independent Veneto to remain part of the EU, and over 51 percent said they want to remain in the eurozone. Over 64.5 percent said they want Veneto to be part of NATO.
The results of the vote were announced Friday in the city of Treviso, where hundreds of pro-independence activists gathered for a demonstration, waving the flags of the old Venetian Republic.

Statistics
4.97 million Veneti
3.8 million eligible voters
2.3 million voted
2.1 million voted yes
257,000 voted no

LeBrok
24-03-14, 08:27
The crowd who gathered on the main square in Treviso greeted the result chanting "Independence," holding Venetian and Russian flags.
Why Russian flags?

Sile
24-03-14, 08:29
Why Russian flags?

maybe ancient Veneti came from Russia LOL...............I do not know.............I will find out though

Sile
24-03-14, 08:34
in the short video clip.......some russian independent movement was involved advertising their grief

http://rt.com/in-motion/italy-veneto-vote-independence-665/

mihaitzateo
24-03-14, 12:33
maybe ancient Veneti came from Russia LOL...............I do not know.............I will find out though

Lol,be serious,I think is because Russia Today television made public this event from Veneto,while most news agencies kept this event under silence.
Also,notice that 64.5% of the people who voted wants to keep Veneto in NATO.

Sile
24-03-14, 13:32
Lol,be serious,I think is because Russia Today television made public this event from Veneto,while most news agencies kept this event under silence.
Also,notice that 64.5% of the people who voted wants to keep Veneto in NATO.

You do know I was joking....don't you!

Aberdeen
24-03-14, 22:54
I'm not sure I'd trust an online poll - those things are often hacked. However, the BBC News suggested that about 2/3 of the population would vote for separatism in a non-binding poll. I think the results might be different if it was a politically binding decision where people understood that it was a clear choice of in or out of Italy. But I don't know - I've never been there. I'm just guessing that people aren't quite as eager to break the egg when it comes right down to it.

Angela
25-03-14, 02:42
A very interesting statistics,of regions of Italy by GDP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_regions_by_GDP_%28PPP%29

Were you to compare these statistics with those for fertile farmland and other natural resources, you would see a remarkable correlation.

Lazio also gets a boost from all the government employees.

Sile
25-03-14, 06:52
this below gives further information

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/europes-latest-secession-movement-venice/284562/

mihaitzateo
25-03-14, 13:18
Were you to compare these statistics with those for fertile farmland and other natural resources, you would see a remarkable correlation.

Lazio also gets a boost from all the government employees.

Napoli for example got a lot of rain&sunshine and a very fertile land,but unemployment in Napoli is highest in Italy etc.
Maybe is more about education,than about resources.
What natural resources got Veneto region?

LeBrok
25-03-14, 17:03
Napoli for example got a lot of rain&sunshine and a very fertile land,but unemployment in Napoli is highest in Italy etc.
Maybe is more about education,than about resources.
What natural resources got Veneto region?
I'm not an expert on Napoli by any stretch of imagination, but I would look into local business regulations or what we might call anti-business environment, like government monopolies, strict regulations, high business taxes, big corruption of officials, etc. Also, long practices of this type always influence local capital to flee to better markets (money is very mobile), and potential local entrepreneurial talents leaving for Milan or Rome. That's exactly what whole Greece experienced for years. Funny thing is that most of Greeks still blame big corporations, world capital and foreign politics for "sucking them dry", not seeing the clues pointing otherwise. Greece was most socialistic country in Europe in last two decades. I wonder if this had something to do with their collaps?

Angela
25-03-14, 18:51
Almost 60% of the Veneto lies in the valley of the Po River. The lower plain of the Valley is incredibly rich in both arable, fertile land, and water. It is one of the most important agricultural centers of Italy, producing wheat, maize, fruits, and the related wines for which the region is rightly celebrated. (Of course, until it was reclaimed by the Romans, a good portion of this area was a useless swamp, but that's another story.) The Adriatic coastline is also, unlike that of the northern Tyrennhian Sea, very rich in fish, as are its many rivers (fish farming). In addition, it produces hydro-electric power.

Despite all these natural resources, it has not always been very prosperous. That is a very recent phenomenon, really, post 1970 or so, after centuries of alternate periods of decline and stagnation of the Venetian Republic. Part of this, in my opinion, is attributable, during that period of decline of the Venetian Republic, to the misrule of its oligarchic, feudalistic government, which remained in control until 1797, when it was invaded by Napoleon. It then became part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire after the Treaty of Vienna. Although it had earlier petitioned to form an Italian union with the territories already under the control of the House of Savoy, it didn't become a part of The Kingdom of Italy until after a referendum was held. The vote for unification was virtually 100%. (I would be wary of any Wiki articles on the subject. Much of the content consists of highly editorialized commentary, bereft of documentation, by someone who appears to me to be a typical Liga Veneta supporter. The Liga Veneta was a founding party of Lega Nord.)

As a result, in a region which today is home to around 5 million people, about 3 million were forced to emigrate between the 1860's and the 1960's.

There are three main areas of economic prosperity in the region in my view; its agricultural sector, the petrochemical industries right outside Venice, which have created the horrific pollution which has defaced this wonder of the world and is causing it to sink, and the many small and medium sized businesses producing things like eyeglasses and jewelry and foot and boot wear and clothing etc. (All of the latter, ironically, to my way of thinking, depend for their success to a large extent on the "Made in Italy" branding. I somehow don't think Made In The Veneto will quite do the trick.)

By way of comparison, the northwest (which doesn't have those agricultural resources, by the way) industrialized earlier, and is home to the kinds of large industries (automotive, in the case of Torino) which are experiencing so many problems throughout the developed world. The kind of family owned, or at least small and medium sized industries of the Veneto, (there are no large cities in the Veneto, and no large factories) and my father's Emilia Romagna for that matter, and increasingly, I hope, Toscana, are less affected by the types of problems plaguing large industries. (Just in terms of costs, for example, you need a whole lot of very expensive, imported energy and raw materials to make cars...Italy has no coal or gas or oil of its own, and no iron for that matter...absolutely everything has to be imported.)

As to Liguria, it has next to no arable, fertile land, no rainfall in the summer and floods in the winter, its eastern end is prone to earthquakes, and it hasn't had any exploitable minerals since the Copper Age. Oh, and no large navigable rivers, and no opportunity to create hydroelectric power, and no fish in the sea or timber on the mountains to quote the old adage. A grim place to make a living, even if it's breathtakingly beautiful. It has always relied on the sea (the control of trade with the east in the Middle Ages and Renaissance), its ports, and banking, more recently with some flower farming, and tourism, but it has never been easy.

There are other confounding factors in Campania unfortunately. Still, you can see the difference between it and regions like Calabria, for example, which has virtually no flat, arable land, no major rivers, inadequate rainfall, and no other natural resources. Sicily once had good land, but the last rulers to manage its resources properly, in my opinion, were the Saracens.

There, doubltess more than you really wanted to know...

Angela
25-03-14, 19:12
I'm not an expert on Napoli by any stretch of imagination, but I would look into local business regulations or what we might call anti-business environment, like government monopolies, strict regulations, high business taxes, big corruption of officials, etc. Also, long practices of this type always influence local capital to flee to better markets (money is very mobile), and potential local entrepreneurial talents leaving for Milan or Rome. That's exactly what whole Greece experienced for years. Funny thing is that most of Greeks still blame big corporations, world capital and foreign politics for "sucking them dry", not seeing the clues pointing otherwise. Greece was most socialistic country in Europe in last two decades. I wonder if this had something to do with their collaps?

We cross posted once again.

The confounding factors I had in mind for Campania had to do with the Camorra and other forms of corruption, and the centuries of misrule by the Spanish Bourbons, but these other factors are important there and all over Italy.

The Northwest, in my view, has more of that anti-business, strict regulation environment than does the Veneto.

I avoided discussing them on my post because I didn't want another fight..cowardice, I know. :smile:

mihaitzateo
25-03-14, 22:40
Well from what is written on inet,Sicily got lots of oil , gas and asphalt ,as natural resources.
They also have a huge touristic potential,"Vedi Napoli,e poi mouri" says to you anything?
The land is very fertile and you can obtain at least 2 crops per year,because of friendly weather.
Is not Sicily the region from Europe where criminality is highest?

LeBrok
25-03-14, 23:27
We cross posted once again.

The confounding factors I had in mind for Campania had to do with the Camorra and other forms of corruption, and the centuries of misrule by the Spanish Bourbons, but these other factors are important there and all over Italy.

The Northwest, in my view, has more of that anti-business, strict regulation environment than does the Veneto.

I avoided discussing them on my post because I didn't want another fight..cowardice, I know. :smile:

We need to start thinking that people are the greatest "natural resource". "All" we have to do is to unleash creativity and supply capital.
All countries should study how little colonial port Singapore, who was said not to survive when separated from Great Britain in 1965, pulled off one of greatest economic successes without natural resources and 5 million people.

Sile
26-03-14, 07:25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneto

http://www.consiglioveneto.it/crvportal/pageContainer.jsp?n=86&p=91&c=6&e=121&t=

Veneto does not need Italy............Veneto is self-suffice for Energy and has very many International companies. It makes 15% of all the money for Italy.
Its draw back is that it pays 54% tax to Rome while its competition neighbours like austria and switzerland pay 33% and 35% resp.

Italy faces problems of losing a huge tax paying state of Veneto and also if it does loose Veneto it could loose Friuli-venezia-Guilia and Ttrentino as well shortly afterwards

It looks like Friuli-venezia-Guilia is already dealing with azerbaijan ( see link with friuli blue flag in background) in trade from last week.
http://www.azernews.az/azerbaijan/65459.html

Maybe the 3 Venezie's will be reunited.......who knows

Angela
26-03-14, 16:51
Well from what is written on inet,Sicily got lots of oil , gas and asphalt ,as natural resources.
They also have a huge touristic potential,"Vedi Napoli,e poi mouri" says to you anything?
The land is very fertile and you can obtain at least 2 crops per year,because of friendly weather.
Is not Sicily the region from Europe where criminality is highest?

It's always helpful if people read posts carefully before responding...to wit...my statement was, " the last rulers to manage its (Sicily's) resources properly, in my opinion, were the Saracens."

As to your other points, if the facts come from Wiki, then of course, they're unassailable.

Although, you might want to look up "aridity" and "water management" with regard to Sicily...just a suggestion.

Oh, and take a look at a map while you're at it...Napoli is on the mainland, in Campania. Sicily is an island separated from the mainland by the Straits of Messina.

And yes, Napoli is blessed in its setting, and the nearby coastal areas are justly famed for their beauty and are tourist meccas. You may have heard of the Amalfi Coast? Taormina in Sicily is also beautiful and quite well known, and more could certainly be done with tourism in Sicily.

As for crime, I suppose it depends on what type of crime. Political corruption, fraud there is a plenty, even theft, but as to personal safety, you and your women and your children would be safer anywhere in Italy than in most places even in Europe, certainly safer than in the U.S. Well, unless you stray into some of the areas in the north that are home to our more recent immigrants.

mihaitzateo
26-03-14, 20:43
Now Sardinia wants to organize a similar voting,they want to get independent also from Italy.
Sardinia is actually an economic viable region,even if they do not have such a high GDP.

mihaitzateo
26-03-14, 20:56
It's always helpful if people read posts carefully before responding...to wit...my statement was, " the last rulers to manage its (Sicily's) resources properly, in my opinion, were the Saracens."

As to your other points, if the facts come from Wiki, then of course, they're unassailable.

Although, you might want to look up "aridity" and "water management" with regard to Sicily...just a suggestion.

Oh, and take a look at a map while you're at it...Napoli is on the mainland, in Campania. Sicily is an island separated from the mainland by the Straits of Messina.

And yes, Napoli is blessed in its setting, and the nearby coastal areas are justly famed for their beauty and are tourist meccas. You may have heard of the Amalfi Coast? Taormina in Sicily is also beautiful and quite well known, and more could certainly be done with tourism in Sicily.

As for crime, I suppose it depends on what type of crime. Political corruption, fraud there is a plenty, even theft, but as to personal safety, you and your women and your children would be safer anywhere in Italy than in most places even in Europe, certainly safer than in the U.S. Well, unless you stray into some of the areas in the north that are home to our more recent immigrants.

According to datas from inet there are areas from Sicily which got lots of rain:
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Italy/average-yearly-precipitation.php
Sure in the middle of land there is not so much rain,for example in Caltanissetta are about 458mm of rainfall,average on the whole year.
http://en.climate-data.org/location/1140/
But that is a very good amount of rain to raise grapes and make wine,since too much rain is not good for grapes.
Just searched,some people are making wine in Sicily (in Caltanissetta) so I do not think Sicily is such a poor land,as you say.

Regio X
06-05-15, 17:55
Regarding to Venetian Republic government:

Virginians and Veneto: http://www.vqronline.org/essay/virginians-and-veneto

1786 - (...) Vengono a Venezia gli emissari del nuovo governo degli Stati Uniti d’America, che la Repubblica riconosce per prima, per vedere le leggi dell’ordinamento veneziano. Queste leggi sono tutt’ora alla base della Costituzione Americana. (...)
Source: villadeivescovi.net/Venezia_Serenissima.htm

Yetos
06-05-15, 23:02
hmm

I do not know what to say,

Italian peninsula progress and jump infront was made when Italy was divided to states,
but Italian backwards was also done due to Italy was divided that times,

hmm
I wonder what Garibaldi would say in such case,
and how much Don and Medici and the rest known families would like such case,

anyway, it is not me who will decide, its up to them

Pax Augusta
06-05-15, 23:14
hmm

I do not know what to say,

Italian peninsula progress and jump infront was made when Italy was divided to states,
but Italian backwards was also done due to Italy was divided that times,

hmm
I wonder what Garibaldi would say in such case,
and how much Don and Medici and the rest known families would like such case,

anyway, it is not me who will decide, its up to them


There is nothing to say. I have lived in Veneto, and majority of Veneto people in real life are not independentist. On the web you find a very exaggerated version of reality.