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Gurka atla
27-03-14, 18:49
WHAT ARE YOUR OPINION ON TURANID RACE? Can this still be considered white or Caucasian? or is it mix race? I think I'm a Turanid. It claims to be a subtype of Europoid but than it basically doesn't exist without substantial Mongoloid / East Eurasian DNA.



Anthropology

Further information: Turanid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanid_race)

In 1882 Augustus Henry Keane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Henry_Keane) said the Mongolic type included the following races: Tibetans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetans), Burmese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamar), Tai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_people), Koreans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans), Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people), Lu-Chu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_people), Finno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns)-Tatars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars) and Malays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Malays).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the following peoples are mixed Mongolo-Caucasic varieties: Anatolian Turks, Uzbegs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbegs), and Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajiks) of Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkestan).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the Kazaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs) are intermediate between the Túrki and Mongolian races.[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the Mongolian race is best represented by the Buriats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buriats).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149)

Turanid race, the latter usage implies the existence of a Turanid racial type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)) or "minor race", subtype of the Europid (Caucasian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race)) race with Mongoloid admixtures, situated at the boundary of the distribution of the Mongoloid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid) and Europid "great races".[150] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-150)[151] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-151)




Mongoloid admixture is from as low 2% to as high as 24.5% in Turkey.





You have Turks that look this although they are in a minority.



Serdar Akin a Turkish reporter

http://skyturkvngenc.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/serdar-akinan.jpg
http://www.demokrathaber.net/images/haberler/aksamdan_serdar_akinan_daga_cikti.jpg


Gülden Dudarik a famous actress


http://www.medyaloji.net/i/h/49766_b.jpg

http://www.huzursokagidizi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/huzur-sokagi-15.jpg



Some normal Turks with stronger mongoloid traits

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3349/4568941366_75ea0ccb0e_z.jpg
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4113/4965008277_e37a0a42fa_z.jpghttp://farm5.staticflickr.com/4073/4786967199_a222b80cdb_z.jpg

Gurka atla
27-03-14, 18:53
This is no joke. Mongoloid admixture is actually more common in the very southeast Turkey. Record of Turkic migration and intermixing there is the strongest


http://i57.tinypic.com/25im6uu.png

Aberdeen
27-03-14, 20:26
Why is this a major concern? We'll mixed if you go back far enough. And I've met Finns, for example, who look like the chap in the first photo. Race can sometimes be a broad and convenient method of classification, but on the whole I wouldn't take it too seriously.

Gurka atla
27-03-14, 20:33
Why is this a major concern? We'll mixed if you go back far enough. And I've met Finns, for example, who look like the chap in the first photo. Race can sometimes be a broad and convenient method of classification, but on the whole I wouldn't take it too seriously.

In the U.S census Turkish people are considered white/Caucasian so I guess that means Turanid can be considered white? is funny considering many still take the one drop rule seriously and they even said having a non-white great grand parent (equivalent of 12.5% ancestry) shouldn't be considered white in the census but in the mix race category and yet the Asian blood in Turks have far exceeded that.

The average Turks have many different percentages depending on the province. Most are from as low as 5.5% to as high as 11.9% Asian blood. However nearly 1/3 have more than 12.5% Asian blood.

You have different variety of people who are 1% to 24.5% Asian + 76.5% to 99% Caucasian.

Nearly half of Turkish people 1/10 Asian (10%) to 1/5 Mongoloid (20%)


So if we follow Americans logic than Turks are nowhere as white because in addition to the Asian/Mongoloid DNA Turks are already Muslim west Asian to begin with.

Gurka atla
27-03-14, 20:41
Finns have 9.3% Mongoloid admixture on average with variance of 6 - 15% according to some people and DNA studies.

Finns Mongoloid DNA are from Uralic though, not Turkic.

Angela
28-03-14, 01:51
In the U.S census Turkish people are considered white/Caucasian so I guess that means Turanid can be considered white? is funny considering many still take the one drop rule seriously and they even said having a non-white great grand parent (equivalent of 12.5% ancestry) shouldn't be considered white in the census but in the mix race category and yet the Asian blood in Turks have far exceeded that.

The average Turks have many different percentages depending on the province. Most are from as low as 5.5% to as high as 11.9% Asian blood. However nearly 1/3 have more than 12.5% Asian blood.

You have different variety of people who are 1% to 24.5% Asian + 76.5% to 99% Caucasian.

Nearly half of Turkish people 1/10 Asian (10%) to 1/5 Mongoloid (20%)


So if we follow Americans logic than Turks are nowhere as white because in addition to the Asian/Mongoloid DNA Turks are already Muslim west Asian to begin with.

You give U.S. government bureaucrats far too much credit...I doubt they have a clue that Turks have "Mongolian" ancestry.

Nobody1
28-03-14, 03:21
Anthropology

Further information: Turanid race (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turanid_race)

In 1882 Augustus Henry Keane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Henry_Keane) said the Mongolic type included the following races: Tibetans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetans), Burmese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamar), Tai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_people), Koreans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans), Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people), Lu-Chu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_people), Finno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns)-Tatars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars) and Malays (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Malays).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the following peoples are mixed Mongolo-Caucasic varieties: Anatolian Turks, Uzbegs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbegs), and Tajiks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajiks) of Turkestan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkestan).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the Kazaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazakhs) are intermediate between the Túrki and Mongolian races.[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149) Keane said the Mongolian race is best represented by the Buriats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buriats).[149] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-Keane-149)

Turanid race, the latter usage implies the existence of a Turanid racial type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)) or "minor race", subtype of the Europid (Caucasian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race)) race with Mongoloid admixtures, situated at the boundary of the distribution of the Mongoloid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid) and Europid "great races".[150] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-150)[151] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people#cite_note-151)

Doesnt this already answer your question;
i.e. Self answered already;

Gurka atla
28-03-14, 07:25
Doesnt this already answer your question;
i.e. Self answered already;

I find that 1882 classification controversial aswell because the Mongoloid admixture even though is substantial in Turkey is still not enough unlike the Uzbeks they have from 40-43% Mongoloid DNA on average.

Turanid basically implies a Caucasoid type that was altered by Mongoloid admixture. Anything that is Caucasoid but with 10-20% Mongoloid admixture are considered Turanid

In Turkey those who are considered Turanid are only like:

1/10 Mongoloid (10%)
1/8 Mongoloid (12.5%)
1/7 Mongoloid (14.3%)
1/6 Mongoloid (16.6%)
1/5 Mongoloid (20%)

Where as Caucasoid are like 80-90%.

MOESAN
28-03-14, 21:36
my credo is that at some time the ancestors of the most of negroids, europoids and mongoloids were well separated, even if some tribes could have stayed in an ancestral "between position" (the less clearly racialized would be in India and SE Asia islands (3 groups), I think... N-E Amerindians and Erythreans seem showing 2 groups -So the present days clear mixed types can teach us about more recent crossings and the story of these crossings (moves of different populations : so it has some importance on some ground for the interested persons -

MOESAN
29-03-14, 11:39
thanks for pictures
these Turcs show interesting features were 'mongolid' is present at different levels - by the way I notice some middle pigmented eyes (and large) -
caution about eyelids: they show something akin to the 'finnic' eye; but 'finnic' eyelid is not a synonym of 'mongolid' eye: the epicanthic fold (as only the upper eyelid fold) is not only a mongoloid trait - what is more typical of 'mongolid' is the 'palpebronasal' aspect (covering of the lacrimal glands near the nose) which is for the most ABSENT among the Finns and here among these Turcs (if I'm right) - my supposition is that this kind of eyelid shape was common among 'brünnid' people - I lack data concerning the different North Siberian people eyes form - I regreat it - maybe some ancient link (by the way, Turcs have some Y-N HGs -

Gurka atla
29-03-14, 15:48
thanks for pictures
these Turcs show interesting features were 'mongolid' is present at different levels - by the way I notice some middle pigmented eyes (and large) -
caution about eyelids: they show something akin to the 'finnic' eye; but 'finnic' eyelid is not a synonym of 'mongolid' eye: the epicanthic fold (as only the upper eyelid fold) is not only a mongoloid trait - what is more typical of 'mongolid' is the 'palpebronasal' aspect (covering of the lacrimal glands near the nose) which is for the most ABSENT among the Finns and here among these Turcs (if I'm right) - my supposition is that this kind of eyelid shape was common among 'brünnid' people - I lack data concerning the different North Siberian people eyes form - I regreat it - maybe some ancient link (by the way, Turcs have some Y-N HGs -


No these are Mongoloid eyeshapes or Mongoloid influenced. Aside from Azeri Turks, Turkey Turks have the highest frequencies epicanthic eyefold in Middle east so it is no coincidence that they have highest frequencies of eyelid because their Mongoloid influence is signficant to produce such results.

Here is a comparison between a Tuvan Turks and Turkey Turk


http://i.imgur.com/IhRMBIK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yEa2n7c.jpg?1



Also it is not uncommon for Mongolians especially Turks of western Mongolian to have pigmented eyes

http://i44.tinypic.com/xbhfme.jpg
http://didacoydiaries.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/img_7255.jpg

MOESAN
04-04-14, 20:12
Gurka Atla: you did not read correctly what I wrote:
I don't say Turcs have not mongolid influences in their types -they have, more or less according to places - I said this form of eyelids is not restricted to pure mongolids: what is very typical of mongolid is the fact that the lacrimal glands ar hidden...some of your pictures correspond, others do not for this detail -
but I think that a lot of archaic human beings came from Africa into Near-Eastern and Asia had an eyelid frame with external corners higher than internal corners (see Africans too, and Finns and some Western Europeans - Aïnous are more 'finnic' for that than typical 'mongolids' for that - the mutation concealing the lacrimal glands (palpebronasal fold) has maybe nothing to do with the fat in the upper eyelid, Ii think ( this fat aspect occurs it's true among modern 'mongolids' but also among Europeans), and this very mutation (lacrimal glands concealed) occurred ater, principally among the eastern Asians -
to find a gentleman agreement with you we can tell this eyelid form (without the lacrimal hidding), was common among proto-mongolids and others proto-something, being reinforced among most modern mongolids (internal fold: palpebronasal) when at the opposite a new form of eyelid became more common among europids (from SouthEast?)
good evening

Gurka atla
08-04-14, 10:00
Gurka Atla: you did not read correctly what I wrote:
I don't say Turcs have not mongolid influences in their types -they have, more or less according to places - I said this form of eyelids is not restricted to pure mongolids: what is very typical of mongolid is the fact that the lacrimal glands ar hidden...some of your pictures correspond, others do not for this detail -
but I think that a lot of archaic human beings came from Africa into Near-Eastern and Asia had an eyelid frame with external corners higher than internal corners (see Africans too, and Finns and some Western Europeans - Aïnous are more 'finnic' for that than typical 'mongolids' for that - the mutation concealing the lacrimal glands (palpebronasal fold) has maybe nothing to do with the fat in the upper eyelid, Ii think ( this fat aspect occurs it's true among modern 'mongolids' but also among Europeans), and this very mutation (lacrimal glands concealed) occurred ater, principally among the eastern Asians -
to find a gentleman agreement with you we can tell this eyelid form (without the lacrimal hidding), was common among proto-mongolids and others proto-something, being reinforced among most modern mongolids (internal fold: palpebronasal) when at the opposite a new form of eyelid became more common among europids (from SouthEast?)
good evening

I'm fully aware what you were trying to say. I already know about the eyeshapes that shows pseudo-resemblence to Mongoloid eyes shapes. However the thing is Turkey being a group between Europe/Middle east have the highest frequencies of epicanthal eyelids aside from Finns and Azeris who are both mongoloid influenced which shows that such eyes shape have a high probable relations with Mongoloid.

So we have many eyes that have relation with mongoloid but many that are not but seeing the genetic high frequencies in Turkey, Azeris, Finns I'm convinced by it's influence. It cannot coincidence that the highest caucasoid group with mongoloid influenced have the highest frequencies of mongoloid eyeshapes.

MOESAN
12-04-14, 12:50
the only sharp criteria for true mongoloid eye shape is the "concealing" lacryma glands - a lot of primitive people have the sort eyelids shown by some of these Turcs pictures without a hidden lacryma gland 5I see this gland on some of the pictures provided here - mongoloid eyes are somehow diverse the criteria remaining this 'hiding' -
that said:
1- yes mongoloids influences exist among the Anatolian Turcs, as among Finns (eastern Finns for the most, Karelia more, and Saami)
2- I saw and see everyday A LOT of Anatolian Turcs in France, and the mongoloid heritage in them IS ALMOST ABSENT: maybe due to 2 facts: the regions they come from + a lot of Kurds descendants among them -
I have said here all I knew - good week-end

Gurka atla
13-04-14, 20:25
the only sharp criteria for true mongoloid eye shape is the "concealing" lacryma glands - a lot of primitive people have the sort eyelids shown by some of these Turcs pictures without a hidden lacryma gland 5I see this gland on some of the pictures provided here - mongoloid eyes are somehow diverse the criteria remaining this 'hiding' -
that said:
1- yes mongoloids influences exist among the Anatolian Turcs, as among Finns (eastern Finns for the most, Karelia more, and Saami)
2- I saw and see everyday A LOT of Anatolian Turcs in France, and the mongoloid heritage in them IS ALMOST ABSENT: maybe due to 2 facts: the regions they come from + a lot of Kurds descendants among them -
I have said here all I knew - good week-end


Yes, many Turks that immigrate are actually Kurds. And yes many regions of Turkey are only 5-10% Mongoloid on average where as others are 10-15% Mongoloid on average. To be honest. I find the Turks from southeast Turkey and Turks who live next to the Kurds looks almost exactly the same where as Turks from the north are indeed lighter.

1. Turk from Southern Mediterranean area/Adana (14%)

2. Turk from Central Turkey/Ankara (14%)

3. Turk from Northwestern Turkey/Bolu (12%)

4. Turk from Southwestern Turkey/Aydin (11-12%)

5. Turk from Central Turkey/Konya (9.6%)

oreo_cookie
25-04-14, 23:57
Turanid is a mixture of some sort of Central Asian type (Tungid?) and East Alpine, no?