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Echetlaeus
27-03-14, 19:13
Especially in the early days of the financial crisis, no-countries, like Finland and Slovakia, attacked the cradle of Western Civilization. I understand that there is a discomfort among the rest of Europeans, nonetheless, this by no means should justify such an impertinent behaviour.

And to all the Northern bros: Recall where you were 1000 years ago !

bicicleur
27-03-14, 20:01
Blame the Greek politicians. They spent much more money than the Greek economy could bear. They are criminals. If they were bussinessmen, they would be in jail for fraudulously intended bankruptcy.

Aberdeen
27-03-14, 20:21
Especially in the early days of the financial crisis, no-countries, like Finland and Slovakia, attacked the cradle of Western Civilization. I understand that there is a discomfort among the rest of Europeans, nonetheless, this by no means should justify such an impertinent behaviour.

And to all the Northern bros: Recall where you were 1000 years ago !

Just a suggestion to other forum members - perhaps we should refrain from feeding the T rolls. Not my call, but to me this post doesn't really seem like a serious attempt at exchanging ideas in a meaningful way, so I thought I'd make the suggestion.

LeBrok
27-03-14, 20:34
Especially in the early days of the financial crisis, no-countries, like Finland and Slovakia, attacked the cradle of Western Civilization. I understand that there is a discomfort among the rest of Europeans, nonetheless, this by no means should justify such an impertinent behaviour.

And to all the Northern bros: Recall where you were 1000 years ago !
Are you saying that because you were the cradle of European Civilization you are immune from making mistakes?

A bit of humility on your part would be nice. Most of Greek's ideas came from prior civilizations in Near East, together with your alphabet. You had the best "system" to implement these ideas and make it work the best of other contemporary nations.
Thinking along these lines, it also means that in today's world there are other countries, which can implement new ideas into even better systems, which makes them more successful than others, than Greece for example.

Start fixing Greece from inside. Europe wants successful Greece paying its dues, and not a failed state which cost billions, to all europeans and world, to fix.

Echetlaeus
27-03-14, 21:04
Are you saying that because you were the cradle of European Civilization you are immune from making mistakes?

A bit of humility on your part would be nice. Most of Greek's ideas came from prior civilizations in Near East, together with your alphabet. You had the best "system" to implement these ideas and make it work the best of other contemporary nations.
Thinking along these lines, it also means that in today's world there are other countries, which can implement new ideas into even better systems, which makes them more successful than others, than Greece for example.

Start fixing Greece from inside. Europe wants successful Greece paying its dues, and not a failed state which cost billions, to all europeans and world, to fix.

OK, let us assume that we took the alphabet from the Phoenicians (they did not have vowels and they did not leave much of their writings like we did although we lived in the same era). Your statement is not very relevant.

My point is the following: the way Greece was treated by the rest of Europe was not polite. There are ways and ways to state negative facts about something, but you have to use arguments and logic. There is no point in humiliating the Greeks. When your time comes, do you want the rest of the world to treat you that way?

We know our problems and we are trying to fix them. For sure there are other countries that are more efficient.

Echetlaeus
27-03-14, 21:13
Just a suggestion to other forum members - perhaps we should refrain from feeding the T rolls. Not my call, but to me this post doesn't really seem like a serious attempt at exchanging ideas in a meaningful way, so I thought I'd make the suggestion.

Thank you for calling me a Trroll! Your way of characterizing people is quite "elegant" I would say, much like the rest of the English world.
I suppose you do not live in Europe, therefore the financial crisis of the continent has not affected you.

Aberdeen
27-03-14, 22:09
Thank you for calling me a Trroll! Your way of characterizing people is quite "elegant" I would say, much like the rest of the English world.
I suppose you do not live in Europe, therefore the financial crisis of the continent has not affected you.

Thank you. I've always prided myself on my elegant speech, geniality and ability to make friends.

Was there a specific topic you wanted to discuss with people when you started this thread? I find that the more specific the question or comment, the greater the likelihood that people will take one's post seriously. For example, did you want to solicit opinions as to how Greece could solve its current problems? Or did you want to discuss ways that other European countries could help Greece, or ways that you think other countries could have acted differently in order to make Greece's problems less severe? And maybe you could consider the possibility that starting a thread by flinging insults at people, much in the manner of a money flinging feces, will mainly attract those of us who like a good fight.

As for the current financial crisis, it seems to have started in the U.S. in 2008 and spread out from there. Many European banks got burned for billions buying U.S. mortgage backed securities that proved to be worthless. And the resulting financial belt tightening hit hardest those countries that had been acting financially irresponsible for a long time and that had run up a lot of debt or reduced their ability to collect the taxes needed for their government to function properly. Canada did in fact sidestep a lot of those problems, so was less impacted by the financial meltdown than many other countries, because we had years of relatively good government from the Liberal party. But the Conservatives are in power here now, and are doing a lot of stupid things that will blow up on us in the long run. So perhaps by the times Greece has finished treating the movie The Hunger Games as a public policy manual and your economy is slowly beginning to revive, Canada will be in the financial sewer. Political and economic decisions have long term implications, and most countries largely have their own governments to blame for their problems (except for those countries that are invaded by their neighbours).

Echetlaeus
27-03-14, 22:32
Thank you. I've always prided myself on my elegant speech, geniality and ability to make friends.

Was there a specific topic you wanted to discuss with people when you started this thread? I find that the more specific the question or comment, the greater the likelihood that people will take one's post seriously. For example, did you want to solicit opinions as to how Greece could solve its current problems? Or did you want to discuss ways that other European countries could help Greece, or ways that you think other countries could have acted differently in order to make Greece's problems less severe? And maybe you could consider the possibility that starting a thread by flinging insults at people, much in the manner of a money flinging feces, will mainly attract those of us who like a good fight.

As for the current financial crisis, it seems to have started in the U.S. in 2008 and spread out from there. Many European banks got burned for billions buying U.S. mortgage backed securities that proved to be worthless. And the resulting financial belt tightening hit hardest those countries that had been acting financially irresponsible for a long time and that had run up a lot of debt or reduced their ability to collect the taxes needed for their government to function properly. Canada did in fact sidestep a lot of those problems, so was less impacted by the financial meltdown than many other countries, because we had years of relatively good government from the Liberal party. But the Conservatives are in power here now, and are doing a lot of stupid things that will blow up on us in the long run. So perhaps by the times Greece has finished treating the movie The Hunger Games as a public policy manual and your economy is slowly beginning to revive, Canada will be in the financial sewer. Political and economic decisions have long term implications, and most countries largely have their own governments to blame for their problems (except for those countries that are invaded by their neighbours).

You are right when you talk about the specificity of things.

The point of this thread is not to call words against people, although let me confess, I am fed up with the behaviour of some people who like to insult my country and have forgotten their WW2 acts, but to express my understanding of things and how the rest of the world (especially Europeans) feel about it.

Angela
28-03-14, 01:53
There are certainly endemic problems with the Greek economy and the Greek social welfare system, in my opinion, as there are in other European countries.

However, part of the problem for Greece is that they got in bed with the big investment banks without understanding the ramifications of the deals they made.

It's an object lesson for any country, or individual, for that matter. If it seems too good to be true, it is. And stay away from derivatives. A lot of the people selling them don't understand how they really work, and all the risks involved, so the consumers, whether they are individuals, institutions, or countries are truly playing with fire.

With banking and investments, you can't be too conservative, in my opinion.

LeBrok
28-03-14, 05:55
Thank you for calling me a Trroll! Your way of characterizing people is quite "elegant" I would say, much like the rest of the English world.
I suppose you do not live in Europe, therefore the financial crisis of the continent has not affected you. I would say, you sort of caused such reaction of other members by yourself. Just look at your thread titles, you either accuse Turks of barbarism, Northern Europe of mistreating Greece, Macedonians (Fyrom) and all Slavs of steeling Alexander (what Polish or Russians have to do with it?). It is obvious to all that your pride is hurt and you came hear to vent your grievances, or even look for a fight, for a Greek honor, or something along these lines. Even your avatar is pretty much diabolically ready to cut heads off.

You are obviously an intelligent person and no doubt civilized. I's hope you know how to make more friends than enemies in this international community here. Because I'm afraid that when you start you thread with:
And to all the Northern bros: Recall where you were 1000 years ago !
I'm sure don't mean to make new friends, but came to "kill".

Echetlaeus
28-03-14, 06:17
I would say, you sort of caused such reaction of other members by yourself. Just look at your thread titles, you either accuse Turks of barbarism, Northern Europe of mistreating Greece, Macedonians (Fyrom) and all Slavs of steeling Alexander (what Polish or Russians have to do with it?). It is obvious to all that your pride is hurt and you came hear to vent your grievances, or even look for a fight, for a Greek honor, or something along these lines. Even your avatar is pretty much diabolically ready to cut heads off.

You are obviously an intelligent person and no doubt civilized. I's hope you know how to make more friends than enemies in this international community here. Because I'm afraid that when you start you thread with: I'm sure don't mean to make new friends, but came to "kill".

LeBroc do not be afraid of the "diabolical' figure that you see in my avatar. He is just a high ranked soldier of the Greek phalanx.
Did I speak specifically about ALL the Slavs? People into these things understand for which part of Europe I refer to (FYROM).


And to all the Northern bros: Recall where you were 1000 years ago !
it means where we were in the past (the mighty Byzantine Empire), and where we are now. This can easily happen to the Northern European countries in the future, for there is no such a thing like "eternal prosperity", thus someone has to be cautious when traduces other countries, just because he is mighty for the time being.

And a piece of advice: try to spend some time before writing your statement/argument. You seem pretty sure that I came to "kill" !

LeBrok
28-03-14, 07:52
And a piece of advice: try to spend some time before writing your statement/argument. You seem pretty sure that I came to "kill" !
Did you make friends? But surely few enemies.

Besieds, your IP indicates that you live in US. Please display US flag to comply with Eupedia rules.

Echetlaeus
28-03-14, 21:28
Did you make friends? But surely few enemies.

Besieds, your IP indicates that you live in US. Please display US flag to comply with Eupedia rules.

Firstly, I do not like to make friends using the internet, I prefer to know people in person.
Secondly I live in the USA for a short period. I am not a permanent resident, therefore I see no reason of changing my flag. I instead added the information of the country where I currently live. I hope that this is OK with you.

P.S. Why did you even bother to see where my IP is? I can easily change that and give a false indicator.

LeBrok
28-03-14, 22:29
Firstly, I do not like to make friends using the internet, I prefer to know people in person.
Secondly I live in the USA for a short period. I am not a permanent resident, therefore I see no reason of changing my flag. I instead added the information of the country where I currently live. I hope that this is OK with you.

P.S. Why did you even bother to see where my IP is? I can easily change that and give a false indicator.
Are you trying to be an ar.ss? Keep up this attitude...

I do not like to make friends using the internet Sure, and I don't like you but you are still allowed to post here. So make a better effort and at least treat other like you would treat your friends.

Echetlaeus
28-03-14, 22:53
Sure, and I don't like you but you are still allowed to post here. So make a better effort and at least treat other like you would treat your friends.

[@ LeBrok] Your attitude is more hostile than mine. I have not directly "attacked" someone ...

LeBrok
28-03-14, 23:48
[@ LeBrok] Your attitude is more hostile than mine. I have not directly "attacked" someone ...
Have it your way, not individuals, but you attacked or implicated ethnicities and groups of people who, in your mind, is to blame for Greece misfortune. Should we go again through your threads names to see the pattern and intention? Then we have your war-ready avatar and this statement: "I do not like to make friends using the internet". It all together creates a pattern of hostile intention.

It would be a one thing to rush into a thread and post your views on a matter, or defend a Greek honor, or something along these lines. But in your case you start "hostile" threads first, with your accusations or deminings, and you wait for the enemy to come. You are quite an instigator, I must say, but pretending to be an innocent victim.

Echetlaeus
29-03-14, 02:58
Have it your way, not individuals, but you attacked or implicated ethnicities and groups of people who, in your mind, is to blame for Greece misfortune. Should we go again through your threads names to see the pattern and intention? Then we have your war-ready avatar and this statement: "I do not like to make friends using the internet". It all together creates a pattern of hostile intention.

It would be a one thing to rush into a thread and post your views on a matter, or defend a Greek honor, or something along these lines. But in your case you start "hostile" threads first, with your accusations or deminings, and you wait for the enemy to come. You are quite an instigator, I must say, but pretending to be an innocent victim.

Let me say that once again. I blame none but Greeks for our financial situation. Luckily, although with the hard way due to the crisis, the citizens of my country are starting to change their previous behaviour. I hope we will do better in the future, for unfortunately my generation is already lost. I posted this thread because I felt really bad with the way some European countries treated us. And yes, they offended our pride too much to the point that I was listening to people stating that they would not tell someone their origin. How pathetic that is! Don't you agree?
I understand that the titles of my threads are a little bit "caustic" and some people may feel offended, but this ads more "spice" in the conversation.

Another thing, why do you complain about my avatar? Is it so bad to use a war-ready avatar as you call it. What is wrong with the hoplite?

LeBrok
29-03-14, 03:30
Let me say that once again. I blame none but Greeks for our financial situation. Luckily, although with the hard way due to the crisis, the citizens of my country are starting to change their previous behaviour. I hope we will do better in the future, for unfortunately my generation is already lost. I posted this thread because I felt really bad with the way some European countries treated us. And yes, they offended our pride too much to the point that I was listening to people stating that they would not tell someone their origin. How pathetic that is! Don't you agree?
I understand that the titles of my threads are a little bit "caustic" and some people may feel offended, but this ads more "spice" in the conversation.
Cool, let's keep it at the spice level, but not too hot. :grin:


Another thing, why do you complain about my avatar? Is it so bad to use a war-ready avatar as you call it. What is wrong with the hoplite? Oh, nothing wrong with it, it is a nice piece of art. However it is also a window into an owner "sole", character, intentions, dreams, etc.