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Echetlaeus
30-03-14, 21:49
It is clear to everyone nowadays that nationalism has increased in many European areas, but mostly in France as the numbers show. At least someone can say that this is a light form of Nationalism, nonetheless it can mark a pivotal change in the behaviour for the rest of Europe. Is this due to the economic situation, due to the fact that many French do not approve the change of the population structure originating from vast immigration, or is it a factor that account for both?

Maleth
31-03-14, 17:05
It is clear to everyone nowadays that nationalism has increased in many European areas, but mostly in France as the numbers show. At least someone can say that this is a light form of Nationalism, nonetheless it can mark a pivotal change in the behaviour for the rest of Europe. Is this due to the economic situation, due to the fact that many French do not approve the change of the population structure originating from vast immigration, or is it a factor that account for both?

Probably its record unemployment, with the continuous immigration, mostly from eastern European and Muslim countries, and the growing crime rate figures and the relaxed EU policies that might allow undesirable people to enter France. Also I believe there are new shabby Roma gypsies towns in some cities.

I believe these are the main issues the Far right were campaigning on. I would add also the growing discomfort to deal with sometimes extreme ideologies and new demands which can make some people very uncomfortable to the liberties that Europe has been accustomed to in the last decades.

Wilhelm
31-03-14, 20:25
Yeah, I think it's good to have some change. People are tired of the same bullshit. The traditional parties have demonstrated are not interested in the real problems of people. That's why most FN voters are working class people.

kamani
31-03-14, 20:41
Probably its record unemployment, with the continuous immigration, mostly from eastern European and Muslim countries


How would you guys see immigrants from Greece or Turkey?

Maciamo
31-03-14, 21:02
It is clear to everyone nowadays that nationalism has increased in many European areas, but mostly in France as the numbers show. At least someone can say that this is a light form of Nationalism, nonetheless it can mark a pivotal change in the behaviour for the rest of Europe. Is this due to the economic situation, due to the fact that many French do not approve the change of the population structure originating from vast immigration, or is it a factor that account for both?

I suppose you are referring to the recent success of the far-right National Front party of the local elections in France ? In most constituencies the far right and the right (UMP) did better than the ruling Socialist Party. However this was to be expected considering the blatant inefficiency of the modern government to do almost anything right. Politics in France, perhaps more than anywhere else in the West, is not about choosing the right political party but choosing the lesser evil. The three main parties could be summarised like this: the bad (UMP), the terrible (PS, allied with the Greens) and the evil/idiotic (FN). But there is worse: the far left (neo-communist and anti-globalisation parties). In my eyes the lesser evil is the UMP (Sarkozy's party), but France has embarked on a very slippery slope and even I don't think any party can't redress the situation. The problem is that too many French people's ideals are stuck in the past (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28844-The-Dark-Side-of-France) and obstinately refuse to look forward to the future. I don't know of any Western country more radically anti-globalisation and anti-progress than France. Too many French people don't realise that valuing one's history and traditions is not necessarily incompatible with embracing change.

Echetlaeus
31-03-14, 21:42
I suppose you are referring to the recent success of the far-right National Front party of the local elections in France ? In most constituencies the far right and the right (UMP) did better than the ruling Socialist Party. However this was to be expected considering the blatant inefficiency of the modern government to do almost anything right. Politics in France, perhaps more than anywhere else in the West, is not about choosing the right political party but choosing the lesser evil. The three main parties could be summarised like this: the bad (UMP), the terrible (PS, allied with the Greens) and the evil/idiotic (FN). But there is worse: the far left (neo-communist and anti-globalisation parties). In my eyes the lesser evil is the UMP (Sarkozy's party), but France has embarked on a very slippery slope and even I don't think any party can't redress the situation. The problem is that too many French people's ideals are stuck in the past (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28844-The-Dark-Side-of-France) and obstinately refuse to look forward to the future. I don't know of any Western country more radically anti-globalisation and anti-progress than France. Too many French people don't realise that valuing one's history and traditions is not necessarily incompatible with embracing change.

I agree with you as far as the politics are concerned. I strongly believe that Sarkozy was a true leader of France. Hollande seems incompetent for this position though. However, the people of a country have the right of self-determination, ergo I do not find it necessarily "evil" to not like globalisation. I do not like it either in its current form.

P.S. I kinda like Marion Marechal Le-Pen though, a sexy lady indeed :)

Anton, Bear's den
31-03-14, 21:55
Support to Marie Le Pen, finally the chair started to swing under the bureaucrat leftist vegetables who sold own country to Americans, the plan to transform the whole humanity into grey liberal biomass, without nationality, identity & gender will fail. Marie Le Pen is new Jeanne d'Arc! http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/smilies/main/good_job.gif

Maleth
01-04-14, 08:05
[QUOTE=kamani;429037]How would you guys see immigrants from Greece or Turkey?[/QUTE]

considering that Malta is the most densely populated (1290 people per sqkm) and smallest country + an Island state will not be exactly a country of choice for people to emigrate to. However 7% of the population are immigrants and half of them from outside the EU. (Mainly Russians, Serbs and a yearly growing number of Somalis and Eritreans). People attitudes vary as the Island so far did not experience mass unemployment. People are more concerned with irregular immigration rather than regular. The biggest concern is the continuous boat loads with African migrants that keep coming in mostly people without passports seeking asylum. And once they are trapped here (in their own words as their intention was to go to Italy and further north, and only end up here because of bad weather) they cannot go anywhere else in Europe because they will not be accepted by other EU countries as they have their own woes.

Maciamo
01-04-14, 09:33
I agree with you as far as the politics are concerned. I strongly believe that Sarkozy was a true leader of France. Hollande seems incompetent for this position though. However, the people of a country have the right of self-determination, ergo I do not find it necessarily "evil" to not like globalisation. I do not like it either in its current form.

P.S. I kinda like Marion Marechal Le-Pen though, a sexy lady indeed :)

The French are utterly hypocritical in rejecting globalisation. Few other country benefit more from globalisation than France. It's economy depends essentially on two things:

1) Foreign tourism : France is the world's most visited country, thanks in great part to globalisation (no visa within the EU Schengen zone, international TGV lines radiating from France, increased air traffic, etc.)

2) Export of luxury goods (fashion, perfumes, cosmetics, liqueurs), foods (not just cheese and wine, but a big share of the Western European cereals and fruits) and high-tech products (TGV, Airbus).

If France were to elect Marine Le Pen as president, she would withdraw from the EU and Schengen, close the borders, raise tarriffs on imports and exports and the French economy would quickly collapse. Give it 10-15 years and France under Le Pen would become poorer than many Baltic or Slavic countries (who are rising fast anyway).

Wilhelm
01-04-14, 14:03
The French are utterly hypocritical in rejecting globalisation. Few other country benefit more from globalisation than France. It's economy depends essentially on two things:

1) Foreign tourism : France is the world's most visited country, thanks in great part to globalisation (no visa within the EU Schengen zone, international TGV lines radiating from France, increased air traffic, etc.)

2) Export of luxury goods (fashion, perfumes, cosmetics, liqueurs), foods (not just cheese and wine, but a big share of the Western European cereals and fruits) and high-tech products (TGV, Airbus).

If France were to elect Marine Le Pen as president, she would withdraw from the EU and Schengen, close the borders, raise tarriffs on imports and exports and the French economy would quickly collapse. Give it 10-15 years and France under Le Pen would become poorer than many Baltic or Slavic countries (who are rising fast anyway).
This is bullshit. Not wanting massive immigration (which is part of the mundialisation process) doesn't imply not having tourism nor exports of economy. Look at Japan or South Korea, they are amazing exporters, and have a lot of tourism, yet don't have the massive immigration that Frace is suffering (what some call the "grand replacement" the Great Substitution of the peoples of Europe). Plus, I think it's a very good idea to want to get out of EU and Euro Zone (I would like it also for Spain ) I believe each country of Europe should have soverignity and freedom, which is not possible under the EU, and have each their own currency. I am very anti-EU. So l like the Front National and Le Pen, out of all the options available I think is the best for the national interests of french.

ΠΑΝΑΞ
01-04-14, 18:37
..Nationalist's before... ...Socialist's after... (παναξ 2014)
(υγ.) ...ax>war>pax>war>pax>wa...

Maciamo
02-04-14, 10:40
This is bullshit. Not wanting massive immigration (which is part of the mundialisation process) doesn't imply not having tourism nor exports of economy. Look at Japan or South Korea, they are amazing exporters, and have a lot of tourism, yet don't have the massive immigration that Frace is suffering (what some call the "grand replacement" the Great Substitution of the peoples of Europe). Plus, I think it's a very good idea to want to get out of EU and Euro Zone (I would like it also for Spain ) I believe each country of Europe should have soverignity and freedom, which is not possible under the EU, and have each their own currency. I am very anti-EU. So l like the Front National and Le Pen, out of all the options available I think is the best for the national interests of french.

Of course any country can restrict immigration while allowing tourists and international trade. But that's not what Le Pen wants. Have you listened to her speeches ? She clearly wants to leave the EU and most other international organisations (like WTO) and lock the borders. That's pure madness.

Wilhelm
02-04-14, 14:17
Of course any country can restrict immigration while allowing tourists and international trade. But that's not what Le Pen wants. Have you listened to her speeches ? She clearly wants to leave the EU and most other international organisations (like WTO) and lock the borders. That's pure madness.
I don't see the problem wanting to get ouf the EU, in fact im all for it, I would do the same with Spain. And the locking of borders I don't know what you mean by that...,

Tchek
02-04-14, 21:49
Getting out of the EU is not madness, it's a failed and doomed construct. The Euro is overvalued (it's the basically the Deutschmark applied to the whole Europe).

Aberdeen
02-04-14, 22:18
Of course any country can restrict immigration while allowing tourists and international trade. But that's not what Le Pen wants. Have you listened to her speeches ? She clearly wants to leave the EU and most other international organisations (like WTO) and lock the borders. That's pure madness.

So, do any of the mainstream political parties in France support the idea of restricting immigration without totally shutting down the border? Or is Le Pen the only politician who's listening when people say they're tired of having hoards of immigrants settling in France while refusing to assimilate? If mainstream politicians don't want people to vote for a maniac, perhaps they should start listening to what people are most concerned about.

Tchek
02-04-14, 23:48
So, do any of the mainstream political parties in France support the idea of restricting immigration without totally shutting down the border? Or is Le Pen the only politician who's listening when people say they're tired of having hoards of immigrants settling in France while refusing to assimilate? If mainstream politicians don't want people to vote for a maniac, perhaps they should start listening to what people are most concerned about.

The FN doesn't want to "totally shut down the border" actually. That's what their opponents tell everyone to scare them away from the FN vote.

Cacciatore
25-04-14, 18:34
But what can any EU country do about immigration? It seems to me that EU policies are primarily very open towards immigration and thus any EU country then must abide by such. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, as the child of immigrants myself, I always feel very uncomfortable with the vitriol that is often tossed their way.