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Maciamo
07-04-14, 12:49
University rankings are conducted by various magazines, newspapers, websites, governments and academics. The three most famous are the Academic Ranking of World Universities (http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2013.html) (aka ARWU or Shanghai Ranking), the Times Higher Education World University Rankings (http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking) and the QS World University Rankings (http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2013).

American universities have long dominated the global rankings. In Europe, the best universities are almost all British. Only Switzerland, Germany, France, Denmark and Sweden managed to get one or two universities in the top 50.

Here is a comparative table of the all European universities that appear in the global top 100 in at least one of the three rankings.



Rank
Universities
Country
ARWU
Times
QS WUR
Total Score


1
University of Cambridge
UK
5
7
3
15


2
University of Oxford
UK
10
2
6
18


3
Imperial College London
UK
24
10
5
39


4
ETH Zürich
Switzerland
20
14
12
46


5
University College London (UCL)
UK
21
21
4
46


6
University of Edinburgh
UK
51
39
17
107


7
Karolinska Institute
Sweden
44
36
-
(120)


8
King's College London
UK
67
38
19
124


9
University of Manchester
UK
41
58
33
132


10
École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne
Switzerland
101+
37
19
157


11
École Normale Supérieure
France
71
65
28
164


12
University of Heidelberg
Germany
54
68
50
172


13
University of Bristol
UK
64
79
30
173


14
Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich
Germany
61
55
65
181


15
Technical University Munich
Germany
50
87
53
190


16
London School of Economics
UK
101+
32
68
201


17
Utrecht University
Netherlands
52
74
81
207


18
Leiden University
Netherlands
74
67
74
215


19
University of Copenhagen
Denmark
42
150
45
237


20
KU Leuven
Belgium
101+
61
77
239


21
University of Amsterdam
Netherlands
101+
83
58
242


22
University of Paris 6
France
37
96
112
245


22
University of Helsinki
Finland
76
100
69
245


24
University of Zurich
Switzerland
60
121
78
259


25
Uppsala University
Sweden
73
111
79
263


26
University of Geneva
Switzerland
69
124
71
264


27
University of Basel
Switzerland
83
74
110
267


28
University of Sheffield
UK
101+
112
71
284


29
University of Groningen
Netherlands
92
98
97
287


30
Lund University
Sweden
101+
123
67
291


31
George August University of Göttingen
Germany
101+
63
128
292


31
Ghent University
Belgium
85
85
122
292


33
Freie Universität Berlin
Germany
-
86
109
(293)


34
Aarhus University
Denmark
81
138
91
310


35
École Polytechnique
France
201+
70
41
312


36
Erasmus University Rotterdam
Netherlands
151+
73
92
316


36
University of Nottingham
UK
84
157
75
316


36
University of Birmingham
UK
101+
153
62
316


39
University of Glasgow
UK
151+
117
51
319


40
Wageningen University
Netherlands
101+
77
150
328


41
Humboldt University of Berlin
Germany
-
94
126
(330)


42
University of Paris-Sud (11)
France
39
114
189
342


43
University of Oslo
Norway
70
185
89
344


44
University of Freiburg
Germany
100
152
102
354


45
Stockholm University
Sweden
82
103
170
355


45
University of Warwick
UK
150+
141
64
355


47
Delft University of Technology
Netherlands
201+
69
95
365


48
Durham University
UK
201+
80
90
371


49
University of Southampton
UK
151+
146
86
383


50
University of Leeds
UK
151+
139
97
387


51
Trinity College Dublin
Ireland
201+
129
61
391


52
University of St Andrews
UK
201+
117
83
401


53
Maastricht University
Netherlands
201+
98
121
420


54
Moscow State University
Russia
79
232
120
431


55
University of Strasbourg
France
97
217
226
540






Number of universities listed in each World Top 100 ranking by country



United Kingdom : 37
Netherlands : 17
Germany : 13
Switzerland : 11
France : 9
Sweden : 6
Belgium/Denmark : 4
Finland : 2
Ireland/Russia : 1


Note that not a single Austrian, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Greek or Eastern European (except Russia) university made it to any of the Top 100.

Nobody1
07-04-14, 12:58
Surprised to not see the Uni. of St. Gallen (Switzerland) in that list; Back in the days they had a very good rep. for economics;

bicicleur
07-04-14, 14:43
in continental Europe this seems to mark the line between the Germanic/Scandinavian world and the Mediterranean world, alltough from an economical/political point of view France seems to belong to the mediterranean area nowadays

Maciamo
07-04-14, 16:58
in continental Europe this seems to mark the line between the Germanic/Scandinavian world and the Mediterranean world, alltough from an economical/political point of view France seems to belong to the mediterranean area nowadays

I agree that Germanic countries have much better universities than the rest of Europe. Within the Germanic world it is especially West Germanic countries, those with a high percentage of haplogroup R1b-S21 (U106), that score well in the the university rankings.

It's interesting that the UK and the Netherlands, which overwhelmingly dominate the Top 100, especially when adjusted for population size, also happen to be the two most individualistic (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26956-Map-of-Individualism-%28vs-Collectivism%29) countries in Europe.

LeBrok
07-04-14, 17:11
It's interesting that the UK and the Netherlands, which overwhelmingly dominate the Top 100, especially when adjusted for population size, also happen to be the two most individualistic (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26956-Map-of-Individualism-%28vs-Collectivism%29) countries in Europe.

In terms of genetic the strongest correlation I can think of with the university ranking is the percentage of haplogroup R1b-S21 (U106). It's true that Germanic countries have much better universities than Latin/Celtic, Slavic or other ethnico-linguistic groups in Europe. But within the Germanic world, the R1b-S21-dominant countries also perform better than I1-dominant countries of Scandinavia.

I think it correlates more with good economy of these countries. I think we can see similar correlation in America and Asia with best universities in rich countries. More money equals better teachers, better equipment, better facilities in general. I'll go here on a whim and guess that during Renaissance best universities were in Italy and Spain.

The remaining question would be, why germanic countries are so successful in capitalistic market ways of last 200-300 years? Is it individualism, collectivism, order, efficiency, smart people, etc? Sort of base germanic character combined with matching production system?

Angela
07-04-14, 17:16
in continental Europe this seems to mark the line between the Germanic/Scandinavian world and the Mediterranean world, alltough from an economical/political point of view France seems to belong to the mediterranean area nowadays


What I see is a dominance by Great Britain, and then to a much lesser extent, an appearance by some Dutch and German universities.

To get a complete picture, it helps to take a look at the global rankings. If you're comparing universities globally, it's a wipe out for the U.S.. Only ten universities in Europe appear in the top 50, and of those, 7 are British Isles, with ETH Zurich (15), the Karolinska Institute Sweden (36), and Ecole Polytechnique Lausanne (37) rounding it out. Hardly a stellar performance by the other European countries.

Thirty of the top 50 are from the U.S. The vast majority of the European universities mentioned in the European list as "the best" are ranked competitively with what I consider very second tier American schools. It surprises me actually. Another reminder that for us, anyway, my parents made the right decision.

I do think that MIT got robbed...it should be higher up the list, as should Columbia. :)

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking

Echetlaeus
07-04-14, 18:16
What I see is a dominance by Great Britain, and then to a much lesser extent, an appearance by some Dutch and German universities.

To get a complete picture, it helps to take a look at the global rankings. If you're comparing universities globally, it's a wipe out for the U.S.. Only ten universities in Europe appear in the top 50, and of those, 7 are British Isles, with ETH Zurich (15), the Karolinska Institute Sweden (36), and Ecole Polytechnique Lausanne (37) rounding it out. Hardly a stellar performance by the other European countries.

Thirty of the top 50 are from the U.S. The vast majority of the European universities mentioned in the European list as "the best" are ranked competitively with what I consider very second tier American schools. It surprises me actually. Another reminder that for us, anyway, my parents made the right decision.

I do think that MIT got robbed...it should be higher up the list, as should Columbia. :)

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking

The money in the U.S. is HUGE. The best European students will go there to study. I myself had several offers from European and Canadian Universities, but the offer from the US could not be beaten. Simply the US know very well how to attract the best of the best. Eventually these people, with their innovations will continue to increase the power and dominance of America.

Another thing has to to with incentives. The market in Europe is totally different. Some people even say that the Western like countries of Europe prospered mostly due to the Protestant/Calvinist doctrine. Put it simple, the very first universities were established in Italy and Spain, yet none of them appears in the list. Sad, but true.

sparkey
07-04-14, 18:27
I'm always surprised at how poorly the University of Paris schools associated with the Sorbonne building (mainly Paris I and Paris IV, and to a lesser degree Paris III and Paris V) perform in these. I would think that many would guess the most prestigious French university to be "the Sorbonne," not ENS or Paris VI. Instead we get:
Paris I: unranked, unranked, 225
Paris IV: unranked, unranked, 216

LeBrok
07-04-14, 18:39
The money in the U.S. is HUGE. The best European students will go there to study. I myself had several offers from European and Canadian Universities, but the offer from the US could not be beaten. Simply the US know very well how to attract the best of the best. Eventually these people, with their innovations will continue to increase the power and dominance of America.

Exactly. The people who constantly predict imploding of US economy and culture are just wishful romantic dreamers who hate US for some reason. US attracts too much talent and money from around the globe not to be strong and competitive for a very long time.

Angela
07-04-14, 18:49
Exactly. The people who constantly predict imploding of US economy and culture are just wishful romantic dreamers who hate US for some reason. US attracts too much talent and money from around the globe not to be strong and competitive for a very long time.

I'm actually of two minds about all this bringing of foreign students into the U.S. to study, to a place like MIT, for example. On the one hand, it brings talented people there from all over the world, and some of them stay and work here, and even if they don't, they might contribute to important research while they are at the universities.

On the other hand, I get very tired of American sponsored and created innovations getting ripped off and copied in parts of the world where, for whatever reason, they seem incapable of really innovative, creative work of their own.

LeBrok
07-04-14, 19:01
On the other hand, I get very tired of American sponsored and created innovations getting ripped off and copied in parts of the world where, for whatever reason, they seem incapable of really innovative, creative work of their own.
Yes it doesn't seam fair to inventors and investors, as they surely benefit less than they should or often at all. However the big picture might not be as grim as it might seam. These stolen technologies will help poorer countries to develop faster and at the end they will have money to spend buying US products and investing back in US (because of great US economy). In short, the faster whole world develops the better for US, even if only in economic sense and not strong political dominance of 20th century.
But still, stealing technologies or anything shouldn't happen in first place.

Echetlaeus
07-04-14, 19:53
I'm actually of two minds about all this bringing of foreign students into the U.S. to study, to a place like MIT, for example. On the one hand, it brings talented people there from all over the world, and some of them stay and work here, and even if they don't, they might contribute to important research while they are at the universities.

On the other hand, I get very tired of American sponsored and created innovations getting ripped off and copied in parts of the world where, for whatever reason, they seem incapable of really innovative, creative work of their own.

I like the use of the word "foreign", like the Americans are really natives in the place that they live. Take for example yourself, who may believe that you are an American (may be true in papers), but you may be only a second generation migrant, so far away from the fathers who created the U.S.

As far as the students are concerned. Of course they should help their countries when they will go back. After all education is for that reason, to make our lives better and help our people. Eventually I hope for convergence, and not divergence.

P.S. Why do you specifically mention MIT and probably other IVY leagues? If they deserve to go there what is the problem? Or you simply want the prerogatives to stay in the U.S.A so that the dominance will continue? Well, eventually this is not going to happen, especially nowadays where information is global. And apart from that, have you ever considered how many international students are doing PhDs compared to the Americans? Just a reminder ...

Aberdeen
07-04-14, 20:27
So there seem to be two major factors at play, the protestant love of hard work and learning, and the availability of lots of money to pay for the development of top quality educational facilities. The British university system developed during Britain's imperial period, when it was the richest country in the world, and momentum has kept the British university system on top and allowed it to expand even after Britain's empire withered away. But will the British university system eventually decline as the British economy continues to falter? And will the momentum in the U.S. gradually shift, with universities in the eastern U.S. declining in importance and more west coast American universities becoming top tier? Time will tell.

Maciamo
08-04-14, 08:24
I think it correlates more with good economy of these countries. I think we can see similar correlation in America and Asia with best universities in rich countries. More money equals better teachers, better equipment, better facilities in general. I'll go here on a whim and guess that during Renaissance best universities were in Italy and Spain.

The remaining question would be, why germanic countries are so successful in capitalistic market ways of last 200-300 years? Is it individualism, collectivism, order, efficiency, smart people, etc? Sort of base germanic character combined with matching production system?

I don't think that good university rankings necessarily correlate with high GDP per capita or healthy economies. If that was the case then Nordic countries; Ireland and Austria would all rank higher. In Germany, Hamburg is the richest city (and Land), but none of its universities made it to the top 100.

Maciamo
08-04-14, 08:30
I'm always surprised at how poorly the University of Paris schools associated with the Sorbonne building (mainly Paris I and Paris IV, and to a lesser degree Paris III and Paris V) perform in these. I would think that many would guess the most prestigious French university to be "the Sorbonne," not ENS or Paris VI. Instead we get:
Paris I: unranked, unranked, 225
Paris IV: unranked, unranked, 216

France, like all Romance-speaking countries, has serious problems with its education system. Even in Belgium, where the funding and management of education is separate for French and Dutch speakers, French-speaking universities perform miserably.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the only French university outside Paris listed above is Strasbourg University, which is historically and culturally more German than French. It even performs better than the Sorbonne.

bicicleur
08-04-14, 08:39
I'm actually of two minds about all this bringing of foreign students into the U.S. to study, to a place like MIT, for example. On the one hand, it brings talented people there from all over the world, and some of them stay and work here, and even if they don't, they might contribute to important research while they are at the universities.

On the other hand, I get very tired of American sponsored and created innovations getting ripped off and copied in parts of the world where, for whatever reason, they seem incapable of really innovative, creative work of their own.

Yes, the US attracts talented people, but I don't think that is the main reason there are so many inventions are made in the US.

There is simply no other country in the world that rewards inventors that much.

Maleth
08-04-14, 11:50
I agree that Germanic countries have much better universities than the rest of Europe. Within the Germanic world it is especially West Germanic countries, those with a high percentage of haplogroup R1b-S21 (U106), that score well in the the university rankings.

It's interesting that the UK and the Netherlands, which overwhelmingly dominate the Top 100, especially when adjusted for population size, also happen to be the two most individualistic (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26956-Map-of-Individualism-%28vs-Collectivism%29) countries in Europe.

Maciamo what does haplogroup have got to do with it? Did you ever check the haplogroups of people lecturing in these universities? You might be surprised what a mix of Nationalities give their services mainly driven by the best salaries and not haplogroups!

Maciamo
08-04-14, 12:17
Maciamo what does haplogroup have got to do with it? Did you ever check the haplogroups of people lecturing in these universities? You might be surprised what a mix of Nationalities give their services mainly driven by the best salaries and not haplogroups!

You really don't understand. I am just saying that the countries that have the best university ranking also happen to be the ones with high percentages of R1b-S21 (i.e. West Germanic as opposed to North Germanic). It was in reply to bicicleur who noticed that almost all European universities listed in the top 100 were from Germanic countries.

However, the link with individualism surely has something to do with the way universities are managed. The USA and Australia are also extremely individualistic societies and also have efficiently run universities. It could be just something to do with English-speaking cultures, but the case of the Netherlands (+ Belgium, West Germany and Switzerland) disproves this.

One of the problems of Romance language countries with universities is that they manage them as if they were social institutions. They want to provide higher education to as many people as possible, and therefore have extremely low registration fees, usually no entrance exam (there are exceptions in some fields like medicine), and allow huge auditorium of 500+ students for one professor, which lowers the quality of the lectures and destroys all interactivity between professor and student. That's a sharp contrast to universities like Oxford and Cambridge, where each student as a designated mentor, and were classes are held in small groups, in which students can ask questions and discuss with their professors.

In conclusion, individualistic countries could be seen as more elitist as they place more exigent restrictions and higher fees on university enrolment, and run universities like business rather than public charities. However they also provide better infrastructure and a higher quality of education, which explains the discrepancy in rating between individualistic (= West Germanic) countries and more collectivist or social-minded countries.

I have explained before (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26956-Map-of-Individualism-%28vs-Collectivism%29) that individualistic people are:

- motivated by self-improvement (their own ego) rather than by the approval or respect from others (family, friends).
- more open to outsiders (because they do not identify strongly with one particular group of people)

These are traits that strongly define the Anglo-American university system. That is one of the main reason why British and American universities are so cosmopolitan and can therefore attract the brightest (and richest) students from all over the world. This is not the case in more collectivist countries like Japan, Korea and China, where foreign students are much rarer despite the quality of some of their universities.

I have lived in Japan for five years and I know for a fact that Japanese people choose their university based on prestige only. They often don't care much what subject they will study as long as they can enter Tokyo University, or if they can't Waseda or Keio. Japanese companies also don't care what they new recruits studied, as long as they graduated from a prestigious institution. Their way of thinking is that only the best learners can enrol and graduate from the top universities, so that is itself a sign of talent. Big Japanese companies teach new recruits everything they need to know, so their major rarely matters (except for specialised positions like lawyer or accountant). That's a huge difference from the individualistic Anglo-American system, where personal achievements matter above everything else.

In southern Europe, France and Francophone Belgium, university is seen as a social right, just like unemployment benefits or public health insurance. It's not about proving one's capabilities but just fitting into the system and usually build social connections that will serve during one's career. It's a system that is neither individualistic nor truly collectivist in the Asian sense of the term, but rather "socialist" or "communitarian". Unfortunately that's also the least efficient of the three systems in today's world (both for academic proficiency and employment opportunities).

Aberdeen
08-04-14, 14:13
I don't think that good university rankings necessarily correlate with high GDP per capita or healthy economies. If that was the case then Nordic countries; Ireland and Austria would all rank higher. In Germany, Hamburg is the richest city (and Land), but none of its universities made it to the top 100.

The Nordic countries, Ireland and Austria all have relatively small populations, so even though they all have relatively high GDP per capita, that doesn't mean that they have the kinds of large pools of capital necessary to pay for the creation and maintenance of elite educational institutions. And the Nordic countries were poor until the 20th century and Ireland was quite poor until a few decades ago. However, Austria was the head of a large empire until about 100 years ago, so if it never was a world leader in terms of elite universities, we'd have to look at some other factor, such as the catholic versus protestant issue meaning less individualism and perhaps less admiration for learning.

mihaitzateo
08-04-14, 14:19
Italy got a lot of scientists and are Romance speakers.
Sweden compared to Norway got a lot more scientists.
I do not think is relevant to what group of people your ethnicity belongs,in how good a University is .
For example,Russians and Ukrainians are almost same people,but education is a lot more developed in Russia,compared to Ukraine.
As for your note that Eastern Europe Universities are not in the top ,that is really not important for me,because this is only a measurement done by some people way of seeing things.
A more fair measurement of how good education+how people in a country are is the number of medals at international Olimpics,where things are quite different.
Here for example the results of International Mathematical Olympiad:
https://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx

ElHorsto
08-04-14, 15:17
Italy got a lot of scientists and are Romance speakers.
Sweden compared to Norway got a lot more scientists.
I do not think is relevant to what group of people your ethnicity belongs,in how good a University is .
For example,Russians and Ukrainians are almost same people,but education is a lot more developed in Russia,compared to Ukraine.
As for your note that Eastern Europe Universities are not in the top ,that is really not important for me,because this is only a measurement done by some people way of seeing things.
A more fair measurement of how good education+how people in a country are is the number of medals at international Olimpics,where things are quite different.
Here for example the results of International Mathematical Olympiad:
https://www.imo-official.org/results.aspx

Yes, I was about to post something similar. Also ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_International_Collegiate_Programming_Contest) shows that the winners of the past 13 years always came from either Russia, Poland or China.
Before the winners were always from english-speaking countries and the contest itself was founded in the US. The shift to the east happened around year 2000. Interesting again is the absense of south europeans.
The university ranking posted by Maciamo seems to incorporate also past performances (prices, publications, citations), so one should be cautious as the contest results might change the ranking if these eastern countries catch-up economically. I think the university ranking indeed does reflect economic power because intellectual capacity must be applied in an organized way in order to be successful.



Year
Country
Institution


2013
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Petersburg State University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_Institute_of_Fine_Mechanics_and_Opt ics)


2012
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Petersburg State University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_Institute_of_Fine_Mechanics_and_Opt ics)


2011
China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
Zhejiang University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhejiang_University)


2010
China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
Shanghai Jiao Tong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Jiao_Tong_University)


2009
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Petersburg State University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_Institute_of_Fine_Mechanics_and_Opt ics)


2008
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Petersburg State University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_Institute_of_Fine_Mechanics_and_Opt ics)


2007
Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland)
University of Warsaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Warsaw)


2006
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saratov State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saratov_State_University)


2005
China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
Shanghai Jiao Tong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Jiao_Tong_University)


2004
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
Saint Petersburg State University of Information Technologies, Mechanics and Optics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_Institute_of_Fine_Mechanics_and_Opt ics)


2003
Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland)
University of Warsaw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Warsaw)


2002
China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China)
Shanghai Jiao Tong University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Jiao_Tong_University)


2001
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
St. Petersburg State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_State_University)


2000
Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia)
St. Petersburg State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Petersburg_State_University)


1999
Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)
University of Waterloo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo)


1998
Czech Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic)
Charles University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_University)


1997
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Harvey Mudd College (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Mudd_College)


1996
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
University of California, Berkeley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Berkeley)


1995
Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany)
Albert-Ludwigs-Universität (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert-Ludwigs-Universit%C3%A4t)


1994
Canada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada)
University of Waterloo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Waterloo)


1993
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Harvard University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_University)


1992
Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)
University of Melbourne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Melbourne)


1991
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Stanford University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_University)


1990
New Zealand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand)
University of Otago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Otago)


1989
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
University of California, Los Angeles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_California,_Los_Angeles)


1988
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
California Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology)


1987
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Stanford University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_University)


1986
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
California Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Institute_of_Technology)


1985
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Stanford University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_University)


1984
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Johns Hopkins University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johns_Hopkins_University)


1983
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
University of Nebraska (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Nebraska)


1982
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Baylor University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University)


1981
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
University of Missouri–Rolla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_University_of_Science_and_Technology)


1980
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Washington University in St. Louis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_University_in_St._Louis)


1979
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Washington University in St. Louis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_University_in_St._Louis)


1978
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Institute_of_Technology)


1977
United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States)
Michigan State University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_State_University)

Angela
08-04-14, 16:38
This has nothing to do with religion and it has nothing to do with haplogroups. It has to do with the concentration of capital, as has been pointed out upthread. Just follow the money, and not the money in the individual pocket, but the money that is concentrated for investment. Money that comes from some quasi-feudal system of land ownership also doesn't count.

Were the ancient Greeks Protestants and predominantly U-106 when they established the academies and western philosophy, history and science in Athens, and Sicily, and Alexandria? I don't think so.

Were the Arabs of Baghdad and Al-Andalus Protestant Christians and predominantly U-106 when they created the centers of learning for the world of that period?

Were the Renaissance Italians who established the first universities in 'modern' Europe, the first medical school, the elements of modern banking, and rediscovered and applied the science and the medicine of the ancients U-106, and Protestant?

I don't think so. If a hypothesis is going to be proposed, it has to account for all of this, all of these people of myriad religious traditions and genetic make-ups, not just the last three hundred years. That's a blip in the history of mankind.

You can actually follow the concentration of capital, and the formation of universities, through modern European history...Italy, France and the Low Countries, Britain, the U.S., and now the Far East has been added. Before the Renaissance, as I stated, the picture was quite different.

The Italian education system was still quite good until fairly recently, surprisingly so given the lack of funds and the rigor and stultifying effect of the university tenure system, when it fell prey to the stupidities of various socialistic ideas, such as the open admissions policies at the universities that was adopted only a few decades ago. The result is that tremendous sums of money are expended on students who will never finish university because they are incapable of doing the work.

And, as was mentioned upthread, you need the sustained effort of an organized body both to concentrate capital and to develop top notch universities. In an era of industrialization, you also need need large quantities of natural resources, which usually means large nation states, i.e. the U.S. Russia, China. England has managed to hang on even though the glory days when it dominated the world are over, (which ended, btw, when its access to the natural resources of other countries came to an end), but some of that has to do with the position of London in terms of the world markets.

The culture of a country is formed by the accretion of customs over time as the result of different historical events. Genetics may play some role, but a country's culture is not deterministically mapped in the genomes of its people. Otherwise, Germans would still be the large creatures incapable of sustained hard work who seemed to spend all their time lolling around in a drunken stupor, as described by Tacitus.

Oh, and to my knowledge I don't believe any of the snps involved in intelligence, or the capacity for hard work for that matter, have been found to be located on the y chromosome.

Maciamo
08-04-14, 16:46
The Nordic countries, Ireland and Austria all have relatively small populations, so even though they all have relatively high GDP per capita, that doesn't mean that they have the kinds of large pools of capital necessary to pay for the creation and maintenance of elite educational institutions. And the Nordic countries were poor until the 20th century and Ireland was quite poor until a few decades ago. However, Austria was the head of a large empire until about 100 years ago, so if it never was a world leader in terms of elite universities, we'd have to look at some other factor, such as the catholic versus protestant issue meaning less individualism and perhaps less admiration for learning.

Switzerland has a smaller population than Austria or Sweden. That did not prevent it from outranking even large countries like France, Italy and Spain. Actually the Netherlands outranked even Germany, which is five times more populous.

Looking at it from another angle, small countries like Ireland, Denmark or Finland all perform better than Italy, Spain or Poland, and almost as well as France.

So size doesn't mean anything. England and the Netherlands outrank all other countries in per capita figures too.

Angela
08-04-14, 17:07
I like the use of the word "foreign", like the Americans are really natives in the place that they live. Take for example yourself, who may believe that you are an American (may be true in papers), but you may be only a second generation migrant, so far away from the fathers who created the U.S.

As far as the students are concerned. Of course they should help their countries when they will go back. After all education is for that reason, to make our lives better and help our people. Eventually I hope for convergence, and not divergence.

P.S. Why do you specifically mention MIT and probably other IVY leagues? If they deserve to go there what is the problem? Or you simply want the prerogatives to stay in the U.S.A so that the dominance will continue? Well, eventually this is not going to happen, especially nowadays where information is global. And apart from that, have you ever considered how many international students are doing PhDs compared to the Americans? Just a reminder ...

I'm European born and 'partly' bred and proud of it; I'm also a proud American. The two are not incompatible. Many Europeans seem to have a very limited understanding of America and what it means to be an "American"; it is not based on bloodlines. In fact, it's been my experience that often those of us who have some basis for comparison with other countries are "more" appreciative of what this country has to offer, and what things make it unique. I don't give a **** whether somebody is descended from Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln combined, it doesn't make them more "American" than I am. Nor has it ever been suggested or even hinted to me that I'm in any way a "second class" American because I chose to become a citizen, rather than having been born one.

This isn't the Balkans, you know. Most Americans have quite happily put the worst aspects of these ethnic differences behind us. The kind of tribal bickering, and "trash talk", and more so, the outright warfare, including mass rapes and ethnic cleansing that periodically break out between the different European ethnicities is incomprehensible to most Americans, and contributes to the distrust of Europe and to the large strain of isolationism that is just beneath the surface.

As for foreign students, it would be nice if they showed some appreciation, if not gratitude, for the opportunities they are being afforded. I'm also a great believer in copyright and intellectual property rights...people and institutions should get to keep the benefit of the intellectual property they have fostered and developed. If those people choose to share it, that's their decision, not one that should be made for them. So, were the decision up to me, I would not be particularly inclined to educate a foreign national whose country doesn't recognize those norms.

mihaitzateo
08-04-14, 17:39
A lot from the success of an University is about what teachers it has.
It is very normal that for an Eastern European Country,except Russia,teachers are not great since salaries are low.
Russia has much better salaries at teachers.
One of the reasons US has best Universities in what the students from there are achieving is because they have very good teachers,since teachers are paid very well and are very respected there.

Nobody1
08-04-14, 18:14
A lot from the success of an University is about what teachers it has.
It is very normal that for an Eastern European Country,except Russia,teachers are not great since salaries are low.
Russia has much better salaries at teachers.
One of the reasons US has best Universities in what the students from there are achieving is because they have very good teachers,since teachers are paid very well and are very respected there.

Exactly;
In the USA most Universities are Private (i.e. costs lot of money ~tens of thousands of $ to get in) which is of course used for the experts and libraries and research centers etc.; In Germany for example the Unis. are Public and only some areas are required to pay a fee of ~200-500 Euros and the courses are usually in German which doesnt make it attractive for International students unlike Britain and USA; Which are also factors for these rankings; Prague and Krakow should not be forgotten as for the great Medieval/Renaissance Unis. Prague was in fact the first German speaking University;

Aberdeen
08-04-14, 18:56
Switzerland has a smaller population than Austria or Sweden. That did not prevent it from outranking even large countries like France, Italy and Spain. Actually the Netherlands outranked even Germany, which is five times more populous.

Looking at it from another angle, small countries like Ireland, Denmark or Finland all perform better than Italy, Spain or Poland, and almost as well as France.

So size doesn't mean anything. England and the Netherlands outrank all other countries in per capita figures too.

Switzerland can be explained away by the availability of large amounts of capital out of all proportion to its population. A lot of rich people choose to live in Switzerland. But I'll admit that my theory doesn't explain why Holland performs so well.

Perhaps the real issue is elitism. I know that the average Canadian university is better than the average American university but none of our universities compare to the top American universities. The emphasis here in Canada is more on making sure that all universities are up to a certain standard, rather than on sifting for the best, whereas the Americans seem to strive to have a few really excellent universities and throw the rest of their students into lesser institutions without worrying as much about quality in those places. As a result, while University of Toronto is a very good university, it's not really in the same class as Harvard, whereas our smaller provincial universities provide a better education than what you could get at a post-secondary institution in Sheep's Butt, Montana or Deliverance, Alabama.

I don't know how that theory would play out in Europe, except that I do know that Oxford and Cambridge are reputed to be quite elitist.

In Europe, the north/south divide does seem to be real, at least at the present. Although Angela is correct in pointing out that wasn't always the case, it certainly seems to be true now. As for religion, Ireland is almost as Catholic as Spain but outperforms it.

Echetlaeus
08-04-14, 19:26
I'm European born and 'partly' bred and proud of it; I'm also a proud American. The two are not incompatible. Many Europeans seem to have a very limited understanding of America and what it means to be an "American"; it is not based on bloodlines. In fact, it's been my experience that often those of us who have some basis for comparison with other countries are "more" appreciative of what this country has to offer, and what things make it unique. I don't give a **** whether somebody is descended from Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln combined, it doesn't make them more "American" than I am. Nor has it ever been suggested or even hinted to me that I'm in any way a "second class" American because I chose to become a citizen, rather than having been born one.

This isn't the Balkans, you know. Most Americans have quite happily put the worst aspects of these ethnic differences behind us. The kind of tribal bickering, and "trash talk", and more so, the outright warfare, including mass rapes and ethnic cleansing that periodically break out between the different European ethnicities is incomprehensible to most Americans, and contributes to the distrust of Europe and to the large strain of isolationism that is just beneath the surface.

As for foreign students, it would be nice if they showed some appreciation, if not gratitude, for the opportunities they are being afforded. I'm also a great believer in copyright and intellectual property rights...people and institutions should get to keep the benefit of the intellectual property they have fostered and developed. If those people choose to share it, that's their decision, not one that should be made for them. So, were the decision up to me, I would not be particularly inclined to educate a foreign national whose country doesn't recognize those norms.

Okay, I understand the point.
Now assume the hypothetical scenario in which USA and Italy are at war and you are at an age and both countries call you to fight. Which country will you fight for? This will give you an answer of what you really are. It is clear that you have to make a choice, especially if you are a male.

BTW, the notion of citizenship (e.g., being an American) has nothing to do with ethnicity (e.g., being an Italian). And could you please share a couple of thoughts of what does it mean to be an American?

And also, what is your point in education: someone comes in the USA and gets educated. I find it quite normal for someone, should he go back, or wherever he goes actually, to use the knowledge he acquired, his human capital in order to have a good work and help the society where he lives. Why should he not use his knowledge outside the US?

ebAmerican
08-04-14, 21:25
I'm going to take a stab in the dark, and say the English language has to do with the ranking of European colleges. I don't have numbers and this is just an educated guess, but I bet countries with large populations that speak both their native tongue and English have more prestigious colleges. The economical and social world order is dominated by the English language, and I bet as well (I don't have statistics) that those who speak English and their native tongue have on average a higher per capita.

It's quite obvious that a prestigious college is cyclical in funding and recruitment. If on average the top paying professions require knowledge of the English language, then countries that support English bilingualism will attract college funding from their successful bilingual citizens. More funding equates to better professors, better recruitment, more money for research and development, highly educated graduates, successful graduates, and back to alumni funding (directly or indirectly).

This could be completely BS, but seemed to make sense.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dorieclark/2012/10/26/english-the-language-of-global-business/

- "Instead, English will maintain and grow its dominance, moving from “a marker of the elite” in years past to “a basic skill needed for the entire workforce, in the same way that literacy has been transformed in the last two centuries from an elite privilege into a basic requirement for informed citizenship.”"