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Twilight
07-04-14, 23:53
Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.

Aberdeen
08-04-14, 00:14
Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.

I don't know about the timing for N, but it seems there were people in the Americas before 12,000 BC.

http://csfa.tamu.edu/who.php

bicicleur
08-04-14, 09:47
Hello there, I've been looking at the ancient history of Haplogroup R's cousin; Q and for quite a while I haven't been coming to terms but notice that Haplogroup N entered Southern Siberia around about 12,000 BC around the time Native American crossed the bering strait to America. I'm quite curious to see if there is any archeological evidence and/or oral history depicting some sort of war or mixing of the Mammoth Hunter culture. Thanks ^_^.

Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.

LeBrok
08-04-14, 17:56
Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.
Generally these are the dates when decline of mammuth population started. The last mammuth died as recent as 4 thousand years ago.


Different woolly mammoth populations did not die out simultaneously across their range, but gradually went extinct over time. The last mainland population existed in the Kyttyk Peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaunsky_District) of Siberia 9,650 years ago.[75] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#cite_note-75) A small population of woolly mammoths survived on St. Paul Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Paul_Island_(Alaska)), Alaska, until 6,400 years ago.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#cite_note-Guthrie-25)[76] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#cite_note-76)[77] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth#cite_note-77) The last known population remained on Wrangel Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrangel_Island) in the Arctic Ocean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Ocean) until 4,000 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolly_mammoth

Twilight
08-04-14, 20:09
Q was a mammoth hunter, but mammoths went extinct. Q was in Alaska some 16000 years ago, and some 15000 years ago first Q found a way around the icecaps to enter America.
N entered Siberia, I guess 13000 years ago, along with first pottery in Siberia, but they went west. Mammoths were allready extinct. I doubt that N ever killed 1 mammoth.


So was Q's cousin; Haplogroup R with all do respect, however I'm wondering if since Haplogroup N was not a mammoth hunting culture; sourced by Eupedia genetics, went to war with the mommoth hunting culture, if the Yennisean locals fled to North America and Haplogroup N warriors took Haplogroup slaves or what? I'm really curious to see what archeology has to say :) . http://www.cosmicelk.net/mammothhunters.htm

laint
17-08-18, 22:46
There is this text in wikipedia in y-dna N page: "The apparent dearth of haplogroup N-M231 amongst Native American peoples indicates that it spread after Beringia was submerged (Chiaroni 2009), about 11,000 years ago."

What it actually says, is that:
1. Bering strait submerged ~11 000 years ago.
2. and that y-dna N went to Alaska LONG AFTER Beringia was submerged and NOT 11 000 years ago. Most probably only in last 1000-1500 years with chukchi who traveled to Alaska. I assume y-dna of N in chukchi is quite recent influx, so only after Chukchi received y-dna, they could deliver it across Bering strait.
3. Hardly N even saw any mammoths, even if chinese still have myths of unicorn and that might be Elasmotherium - real animal, that grazed with mammoths, but most probably they just dig up those as dead animals. N most probably entered in Siberia, only when it was possible to enter it, as glaciers who blocked path to Siberia melted away. If you watch GoT, imagine, that on the side of Amur river starting from Baikal lake there was ice wall and it was inaccessible for NO and anyone else. Eastern side of sea was blocked by glaciers that entered ocean and produced icebergs and the only place that had gates to Siberia was in west around the place, where Yenisei River starts(Baikal lake) and it still have remnants of Q in Asia which were represented with modern Ket people(which also might have linguistical similarities with Dene - at least there is theory, that they have linguistical links), so it was blocked by Q on north side and R nomads in south side. And according to migration paths of N - Uralic migrated into Urals more westernly of Ket.