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JanDerrek
11-04-14, 14:42
In USA people have Ayn Randic, social darvinist mentality like "greed is good", "all humans are selfish", "rich people are hard workers and they deserve their wealth", "poor people are lazy idiots". So in the USA poor people are being marginalised, demonised and dehumanised. Americans are brainwashed to think that capitalism is a good system and that it benefits everyone. But we know very well that capitalism is all about rich getting richer and poor getting poor. For example in Spain unemployment is 27% while the richest Spainard's Ortega's wealth has increased since 2008 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires#2014). So what is the attitude of Europeans towards wealth,poverty, capitalism?

Echetlaeus
11-04-14, 16:16
I strongly believe that Europe cannot be compared with the US in that matter. We are indeed more socialistic than many people think. Just see the programs for helping poor people and the unemployed.
I specifically believe that you must have a system that does not care only about the money, but also for the human being. That said, an economy that is only after the "coins" is something that I despise.

LeBrok
11-04-14, 19:07
In USA people have Ayn Randic, social darvinist mentality like "greed is good", "all humans are selfish", "rich people are hard workers and they deserve their wealth", "poor people are lazy idiots". So in the USA poor people are being marginalised, demonised and dehumanised.
Where did you get this information from?



Americans are brainwashed to think that capitalism is a good system and that it benefits everyone. Capitalism is the reason behind US being the strongest country in the world for last 100 years. And it is still the strongest while socialistic Soviet Union collapsed. How brainwashed one needs to be to see the correlation, capitalism good, socialism bad?
Give us one example of a country with socialistic economy being successful.




But we know very well that capitalism is all about rich getting richer and poor getting poor. No, poor people are much better of now than 100 years ago. Poor in US will have apartment to live in, free food, free clothes, free TV, free internet, free school, free health care, etc, etc. All paid by well off people who pay taxes. Poor 100 years ago were dying of hunger, today's poor are the fattest social group in US.


For example in Spain unemployment is 27% while the richest Spainard's Ortega's wealth has increased since 2008 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World's_Billionaires#2014).
I'm sure you can find many examples of rich in Spain who lost fortunes and went bankrupt because of recent crises.



So what is the attitude of Europeans towards wealth,poverty, capitalism? If they have your attitude and understanding of economy, then god save the Europe.

Auld Reekie
11-04-14, 19:43
Regardless of capitalism America's cultural origins tell us a bit how many feel towards wealth and poverty. It's origins going back to 16th-18th century Britain are based on the protestant idea that work is godly, to be self sufficient and thrifty and the fear of outside forces like Catholicism and centralized powers having too much power whether it be religious institutes, monarchy or parliament. Now take that people didn't agree on these issues then and were fractured regionally, politically and religiously, as is America today. Most Americans are split 3 or 4 ways on issues of capitalism and socialism but I think that cultural history sheds a little light on factors that are hard to explain, rather than America being just greedy and hating socialism. Maybe history can explain the current trends in culture today?

Aberdeen
11-04-14, 21:14
.
Where did you get this information from?


Capitalism is the reason behind US being the strongest country in the world for last 100 years. And it is still the strongest while socialistic Soviet Union collapsed. How brainwashed one needs to be to see the correlation, capitalism good, socialism bad?
Give us one example of a country with socialistic economy being successful.



No, poor people are much better of now than 100 years ago. Poor in US will have apartment to live in, free food, free clothes, free TV, free internet, free school, free health care, etc, etc. All paid by well off people who pay taxes. Poor 100 years ago were dying of hunger, today's poor are the fastest social group in US.


I'm sure you can find many examples of rich in Spain who lost fortunes and went bankrupt because of recent crises.


If they have your attitude and understanding of economy, then god save the Europe.

If you want to read about the way some Americans demonize the poor and worship the rich, just read publications from right wing sources such as the Republican National Committee or nuts like Sarah Palin or Jim DeMint. And America hasn't been the strongest country for the last 100 years - the last 70 or 80 perhaps. The rise of unions and a government that built infrastructure, starting the in 1930, harnessed the beneficial aspects of capitalism to make the U.S. very powerful and economically successful. However, life has been going backwards for the average American citizen for over 30 years now, thanks to the so-called Reagan Revolution and the growing control of the American government by the wealthy. (Most important American politicians are multi-millionaires.) Here's a picture of what's happening down there.


Table 2: Distribution of net worth and financial wealth in the United States, 1983-2010



Total Net Worth



Top 1 percent
Next 19 percent
Bottom 80 percent


1983
33.8%
47.5%
18.7%


1989
37.4%
46.2%
16.5%


1992
37.2%
46.6%
16.2%


1995
38.5%
45.4%
16.1%


1998
38.1%
45.3%
16.6%


2001
33.4%
51.0%
15.6%


2004
34.3%
50.3%
15.3%


2007
34.6%
50.5%
15.0%


2010
35.4%
53.5%
11.1%






Financial (Non-Home) Wealth



Top 1 percent
Next 19 percent
Bottom 80 percent


1983
42.9%
48.4%
8.7%


1989
46.9%
46.5%
6.6%


1992
45.6%
46.7%
7.7%


1995
47.2%
45.9%
7.0%


1998
47.3%
43.6%
9.1%


2001
39.7%
51.5%
8.7%


2004
42.2%
50.3%
7.5%


2007
42.7%
50.3%
7.0%


2010
42.1%
53.5%
4.7%




And here are a few articles about it.

www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/10/02/how-income-inequality-is-damaging-the-u-s/


www.forbes.com/sites/moneywisewomen/2012/03/21/average-america-vs-the-one-percent/


www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

That's right, Forbes Magazine, the magazine for the rich, is now worried about the way financial inequity is ruining the American economy. And no, a lot of the American poor can't get social support - the life expectancy of poor Americans is now decreasing because of lack of access to medical care, with the current attempt at a fix not working very well because it tried to accomodate the privately owned health insurance companies, and there are more homeless in the U.S. than ever, including huge numbers of homeless women and children. And the U.S. currently has the least social mobility of any developed country other than Britain.

It's not a matter of choosing between cowboy capitalism and the kind of stalinism you experienced in your native Poland. The most consistently successful economies are the social democracies of Europe, countries like Germany, Sweden and Denmark, where capitalism is encouraged but carefully regulated and where things like education and health care are considered a basic human right. We had the same thing here in Canada, but now Harpo and his thugs are trying to turn the clock backwards. it's too bad that about 40% of the people who actually vote in this country are low information voters who swallow the right wing nonsense unquestioningly. The U.S. is going down the economic sewer if it doesn't change the course it's on, and I would hate to see Canada follow that same destructive path. And unfortunately some European countries (mostly Spain and Greece) are kicking the average citizen in order to help out the rich, so their economies will sputter for decades to come but the social democratic countries are doing fine.

Twilight
12-04-14, 07:36
As an American myself I think it's a combination of things, no offence but have you thought that "Richer getting richer and poor getting poorer thing" gotten a little out of hand? Some Rich People work hard, achieve & believe in themselves; finding their Special Talent and some are born Rich. If me and my Parents didn't have those values, I would've been placed in a mental hospital for life due to severe autism yet I'm working in Governmental Propety due to my talent in organization; Don't mean to brag. The point is believing in yourself and finding a talent you are good at and turn it into a profession is a good way to get ahead in life, .^_^ Brainwashed on the other hand is kind of hurtful, we are trying the best we can despite the war, if you can think of ways to help society that would be much appreciated, thanks.

bonair
06-09-14, 16:37
North europeans hate capitalism.. is my experience