Yet another classification request ...

Please classify this woman!

Pretty, young, looks smart.

Difficult one. My Guess Russian/ Slavic

She could definitely pass as Italian. How long before I can say who she is?

Angela said:

She could definitely pass as Italian. How long before I can say who she is?

Click to expand...

Do not say yet. Let us see what the rest of the forum members have in mind.

I would guess a mix of Central European and Balkan decent. The black hair is throwing me off, but her face looks Central European. I'm horrible at phenotypes, who is she?

I think she looks south-eastern european before central european.
i would guess anything between italian and greek, bulgarian.

althought she could be Also slovenian? Or austrian?

Regarding her haircolor; looking at her eyebrow she's at least natural dark-brown. Altought heir Hair are dyed to make them more shiny and healthy

I want Angela to answer the question of who she is. After all she seems to know her. Then I will say if her guess is right or wrong.

Looked like Luciana Berger, British Labor MP of Ashkenazi descent to me.

She is Olga Kefalogianni, the Greek Minister of Tourism. She is from Crete.

She still could pass in Italy. She could pass as Ashkenazi as well, although not as much when seen full face and you can see her eyes and nose properly.


@Julia
She needn't be coloring her hair, although she might be, particularly if she's greying early. Chestnut hair often winds up looking darker in that case. However, you can have the shine naturally if you're young enough, or through a good keratin treatment if you're not... :grin:

It's not all that rare a combination of pigmentation traits...

Another picture of Luciana Berger...


A woman from northwest Italy...View attachment 6376

Angela,
how do you classify the Ashkenazi?

To me they are just Europeans with the Hebrew faith. Correct me if I am wrong, but they seem totally different from the original Semitic race. What do the genes say though from a scientific point of view?

In terms of phenotype, the Ashkenazim were discussed here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29154-Can-you-guess-and-classify-this-man?highlight=Ashkenazi

As I said there, because the Ashkenazim are such a bottlenecked, inbred population (stemming from the *very* small group that survived the massacres in the Rhineland at the time of the Crusades)...
1) There are a few specific looks that I would classify as particularly "Ashkenazi" looking..
2) However, people who have those specific looks need not actually be Ashkenazim.
3) Also, not all Ashkenazim have those supposedly "typical" looks; many of them just look southern European, some might look more Near Eastern, and a few might even look central or eastern European, although more rarely unless they are admixed.

In terms of genetics, there are dozens of studies. If you do a search at 23andme, you'll find quite a few threads about it where very knowledgeable Ashkenazim, among others, discuss those studies.

It's been a while since I've discussed it, but I think, after weighing all the studies, I would say that autosomally their sojourn in Europe has resulted in a few percentage points of ancestry from Central Europe, and an even smaller slice from eastern Europe, and then the remainder is some combination of northern Near Eastern ancestry combined with southern European ancestry of the Greco-Roman variety, in varying proportions in different groups of Ashkenazim. Whether that was picked up in the eastern Mediterranean during the Classical era or later in Italy, I don't know, and I don't think anyone else does for certain either. I also don't think anyone knows the specific percentage breakdown of Greco-Roman versus Near Eastern ancestry, although I've seen "guesstimates" of anywhere from 20-40% Greco-Roman ancestry. In terms of that Greco-Roman ancestry, some people theorize that it was actually picked up in Italy, mainly through inter-marriage with Italian women, before most of the community moved to the Rhineland, but again, there's no incontrovertible evidence, in my opinion.

I still think this graphic is pretty accurate even though it's a few years old. Just click on it to enlarge it.
View attachment 6377

I could "bark with the wolves" knowing her origin, but sorry, I don't agree with a "mediterranean" look:
she looks very more on the "primitive european" model, with jaw prognathy, a nose with can be seen among western and eastern Europeans of old stock, sometimes among Celts, sometimes among Finns and N-Slavs: a pre-neolithic nose, if I can say like that (because some of the earlier neolitihical people could have some crossings with some people like that, or kept some ancestral traits, exceptionally - I would say a "mesolithical nose" and something 'cromagnoid' too (a taste on bones)
+ I don't find any ressemblance with Luciana BERGER neither for nose nor for jaw (Luciana BERGER has a narrower jaw compared to her global face)-
I don'r refer to her head hair color because I never do that concerning women! and it is not the more important when classifying -
in short: some traits of a pre-agricultural population remnants in Mediterranea, before the diverse southeastern people waves...
my analysis is free!!! (LOL)

Her hair are obviously died, to make them a more beautiful color. They are dyed a shade darker plus brillantine-dying.

Sue looks south eastern european.

MOESAN said:

I could "bark with the wolves" knowing her origin, but sorry, I don't agree with a "mediterranean" look:
she looks very more on the "primitive european" model, with jaw prognathy, a nose with can be seen among western and eastern Europeans of old stock, sometimes among Celts, sometimes among Finns and N-Slavs: a pre-neolithic nose, if I can say like that (because some of the earlier neolitihical people could have some crossings with some people like that, or kept some ancestral traits, exceptionally - I would say a "mesolithical nose" and something 'cromagnoid' too (a taste on bones)
+ I don't find any ressemblance with Luciana BERGER neither for nose nor for jaw (Luciana BERGER has a narrower jaw compared to her global face)-
I don'r refer to her head hair color because I never do that concerning women! and it is not the more important when classifying -
in short: some traits of a pre-agricultural population remnants in Mediterranea, before the diverse southeastern people waves...
my analysis is free!!! (LOL)

Click to expand...

Well, I did say my opinion changed when I saw her full face, but as I've also said, I have a long way to go with this classification business.

Also, whatever the origins of her particular traits, she still looks southern European to me.

@Julia
Whatever the case may be for this particular woman, I assure you that very dark brown hair can occur in nature with very fair skin.

^ Angela, is that you?

She's someone I know very well.

Maria, Marianna, Magdalena or something like that I suppose. Maybe Maria, as the song about the "Pure Italian" says. It must be very common in Italy.
Perhaps your mother ...