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At the same time in Athens, women were living mostly at the house (a place called γυναικωνίτης).
Women staying home is victorian upper class invention. During Mesolithic women were Gatherers. You can't gather food or wood at home. You stay home only to feed kids and sleep. Watch some documentary about Amazon HGs groups.and for human society to function healthily i think we need women to take female roles(incl. staying home and taking care of children)
Women staying home is victorian upper class invention. During Mesolithic women were Gatherers. You can't gather food or wood at home. You stay home only to feed kids and sleep. Watch some documentary about Amazon HGs groups.
In Neolithic women were working hard in fields, kids too. There were no schools, and kids were doing chores from early age. Actually older kids were taking on matherly responsibilities and were taking care of younger siblings. Mother had to take care of animals and work in fields with husband. Mothers were always more involved with kids than fathers, but not in the romanticized or sterilized way you grow up in.
My point is that as you move forward into the work world and the greater adult world of the future you keep your musings about rigid male and female societal roles to yourself when dealing with the numerous women pharmacists, and doctors and bankers and business owners and cops and lawyers and prosecutors and judges whom you will encounter, and whom you might even find are your bosses, or they'll chop you off at the knees. etrified:etrified:etrified: I would, and I'm very traditional in my private life...but not at work! Just a word to the wise. :grin:
Women staying home is victorian upper class invention. During Mesolithic women were Gatherers. You can't gather food or wood at home. You stay home only to feed kids and sleep. Watch some documentary about Amazon HGs groups.
In Neolithic women were working hard in fields, kids too. There were no schools, and kids were doing chores from early age. Actually older kids were taking on matherly responsibilities and were taking care of younger siblings. Mother had to take care of animals and work in fields with husband. Mothers were always more involved with kids than fathers, but not in the romanticized or sterilized way you grow up in.
Okay, sure but politics and gender roles rarely matter in everyday life.
Like medicine and law? Find me a young person who thinks this way. Kids are in plans way after any school, when they are in their thirties.And in the question why women aren't that many in Engineering? Well, I believe that women, generally, choose employments that are not that "risky". What I mean is that most of them will want to graduate from easier fields and start a family soon.
^ Medicine and Law are way easier than Engineering, which require tremendous amount of time and Math knowledge, and above all not that much memorization, as in Law for example.
And I said most, not all. Please read very carefully what I write ...
And BTW, what is the percentage of women in Med + Law, compared to the whole population. This is what you should ask thyself.
Women above 35, when they have lost their prime, will find it way more difficult to start a family. Agents,on average, know all of this information and acting rationally make choices.
The only country I have statistics for is Canada, where for the last few years a slight majority of the people who graduate from law school and medicine have been women. I suspect the stats would probably be similar for most developed countries. And anyone who thinks that engineering is more difficult than law or medicine is either silly or ill-informed, IMO. They're three very different subjects that require different skills sets, and it's not easy to master engineering, law or medicine, but I'd have to say that medicine is probably quite a bit the most difficult of the three. And I suspect the reason women are under-rated in engineering and computer technology is because they feel very unwelcome in those fields.
If people put off starting families and only have one or two children, I applaud that choice in a world that is by far over-populated.
Like medicine and law? Find me a young person who thinks this way. Kids are in plans way after any school, when they are in their thirties.
The only country I have statistics for is Canada, where for the last few years a slight majority of the people who graduate from law school and medicine have been women. I suspect the stats would probably be similar for most developed countries. And anyone who thinks that engineering is more difficult than law or medicine is either silly or ill-informed, IMO. They're three very different subjects that require different skills sets, and it's not easy to master engineering, law or medicine, but I'd have to say that medicine is probably quite a bit the most difficult of the three. And I suspect the reason women are under-rated in engineering and computer technology is because they feel very unwelcome in those fields.
If people put off starting families and only have one or two children, I applaud that choice in a world that is by far over-populated.
I have no idea what you mean by that statement. You said upthread that there are (or should be?) strict gender roles. Now you say that they don't matter!?
What I can tell you unequivocally is that most women in the U.S. today work outside the home. More than half the law school graduates are women. The number is also very high in medical school. Business school enrollment is high and increasing every year. The only professional schools which are still male dominated are perhaps the engineering schools. All but one of my doctors is a woman, and my lawyer is a woman. Even my estate planner is a woman. I didn't really plan it that way, but that's the way it worked out. When I was in a business field, my mentor was a woman, and the best one I ever had. All of them work outside the home, obviously. Most of them are married and have children, but the vast majority of those went back to work right after maternity leave. In some cases, they take flex time for a while, but eventually they come back. Some of them can afford to pay for some household help, but even in those cases, and certainly when the salaries aren't that high, husbands do laundry and run the vaccum, and grocery shop and cook, and change diapers and feed the kids and drive them to school. That's modern life.
Do women, even when they're working as many hours as their husbands do, often wind up doing more of the child care and household work? Probably, I certainly did, but that was a personal decision based on the fact that I come from a much more traditional culture and married a man far more traditional than most Americans. Still, even he did the laundry and the heavy cleaning and a lot of the shopping, and he was a wonderful father to the children, even if he often shirked diaper duty.
With the young girls coming up, it's going to be 50/50 all the way or you can forget it, my friend. You cannot educate women and expect them not to put their brains and their education to use. You cannot have a society that only pays lip service to the idea of the nobility of the role of mothers and home makers but actually only values and respects the earning of money and the accumulation of worldly power, and then expect women to settle for the lack of self-esteem that would result from not accumulating those things.
I totally take LeBrok's and Aberdeen"s point about the difference between the Victorian middle and upper class ideal of rigidly separated gender roles, and the reality for different classes of that era and for much of human history before it, and I agree with it. Farming societies were and are very different. The peasant women of my culture worked like mules on those farms. It was only the oldest woman, usually the grandmother, who was too old for field work, who could be spared to do the cooking and the cleaning, helped by some of the girls, who also did most of the child rearing. The other women and most of the children went out to work in the fields. My father always said, and his family weren't farmers, that one of his eldest sisters was the one who taught him to tie his shoes, and took him to the first day of school, and helped him with his homework. His mother was too busy helping to run the family businesses, and giving birth to eleven children while she was at it.
Still, male and female roles are even less rigid today. My grandfather and even my father, would never have changed diapers or given us bottles, and my mother didn't work outside the house. That changed with me, and it will change even more with my daughter. That's the way it is...as should be clear to anyone living in the U.S.
I do not mean to start a fight here, but women outperform men in fields like education, history, liberal arts in general.
Women are welcome in any science. The point is that they CHOOSE not to go, there must be a reason for that for sure. Nobody told them do not come.
I hope you understand my point!
Medicine is very important, I agree with that. But sciences with heavy Math reqs. are more difficult. Believe me I have tried it.
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