PDA

View Full Version : Mtdna h64



JFWR
16-05-14, 12:20
Hello there friends. Long time, no see. I've not posted here for quite a while, but I thought I'd return in order to ask a question regarding my recently uncovered maternal lineage. Specifically, I just found out through FTDNA's testing that I'm categorized as Haplogroup H64, for which I can find virtually no info for! Could anyone direct me to the proper information for it? Or if it is a subclade, what it is a subclade of? Forgive the wall of text, but it doesn't appear carriage return works here anymore via the enter button?

Fire Haired14
17-05-14, 01:29
H64 is close to non existent. My father's maternal lineage is from the west coast of Norway and he belongs to H64. Even though I am not literally a member of H64, I still like to associate with it it since it is so rare and unique.

This is it's phylonology starting at H.

H G2706A T7028C-H34'85'64 C16291T-H64 G11150A

H64 has two sister clades H85 and H34, which I bet are also very rare. There are no known intermediates between H34'85'64 and H, meaning if this subclade of H is exclusive to a certain region it probably originated there and has been there for well over 10,000 years(judging by age estimates of H). At FTDNA I could only find fellow H64 members in Europe(West Norway, Germany, and Ireland) but since almost everyone who tests at FTDNA is 100% European that doesn't mean much. Pre-Neolithic European hunter gatherers seemed to have had around 100% mtDNA U(U5, U4, U2, U8, U*) besides ones that admixed with other populations, but possibly some belonged to other west Eurasian haplogroups like H, and H34'85'64 may be descended of them.

JFWR
17-05-14, 05:56
Thank you so much, Firehired, I really appreciate the help. Sorry once again for this block of text: Everytime I try to press enter, it doesn't...give me a carriage return here. And only here. Which is peculiar. I will have to try elsewhere on the site to resolve that. ANYWAY...: Hmm! That's a very fascinating bit of information there. So more or less, H64 is an extremely rare variant of the most common European maternal haplogroup? I was expecting as much once I found...literally no information whatsoever regarding this. I am especially interested that there is a "hit" from Ireland, as this may be my relative. My maternal lineage is Irish, my great-great grand mother Nellie being born just outside of Dublin (now in Dublin) and her parents hailing from Cork. -- Also, unrelatedly: I put "Celto-Germanic" on the US census.

Fire Haired14
17-05-14, 07:03
Thank you so much, Firehired, I really appreciate the help. Sorry once again for this block of text: Everytime I try to press enter, it doesn't...give me a carriage return here. And only here. Which is peculiar. I will have to try elsewhere on the site to resolve that. ANYWAY...: Hmm! That's a very fascinating bit of information there. So more or less, H64 is an extremely rare variant of the most common European maternal haplogroup? I was expecting as much once I found...literally no information whatsoever regarding this. I am especially interested that there is a "hit" from Ireland, as this may be my relative. My maternal lineage is Irish, my great-great grand mother Nellie being born just outside of Dublin (now in Dublin) and her parents hailing from Cork. -- Also, unrelatedly: I put "Celto-Germanic" on the US census.

I have had the same problem with the enter button on this site(overtime it left), you should ask Maciamo for help. \\

H is the most popular mtDNA haplogroup in Europe, but it's confusing for some people when it is associated so much with Europe. Because the source of European-specific ancestry(stone age Euro hunter gatherers) may have had nothing to do with mtDNA H, and instead H is mostly or entirely from European's middle eastern ancestors most of whom brought farming to Europe.


I am especially interested that there is a "hit" from Ireland, as this may be my relative. My maternal lineage is Irish, my great-great grand mother Nellie being born just outside of Dublin (now in Dublin) and her parents hailing from Cork. -- Also, unrelatedly: I put "Celto-Germanic" on the US census.

It is the same story for my uncle, because two H64's have been found in the same area of Norway his maternal great grandmother was born in. I like how you put Celto-Germanic in the census, I don't know how old that term is(I think I got it from Maciamo), but it's a great definition for most northwest Europeans.

JFWR
17-05-14, 09:02
I have had the same problem with the enter button on this site(overtime it left), you should ask Maciamo for help. \\

H is the most popular mtDNA haplogroup in Europe, but it's confusing for some people when it is associated so much with Europe. Because the source of European-specific ancestry(stone age Euro hunter gatherers) may have had nothing to do with mtDNA H, and instead H is mostly or entirely from European's middle eastern ancestors most of whom brought farming to Europe.

Very interesting. I have also read that it came via way of Morocco sometime around the end of the last ice age. Does this corroborate or contradict the agriculture hypothesis? I thought that agriculture was brought to Europe via Anatolia?

Thanks again for all your help.


It is the same story for my uncle, because two H64's have been found in the same area of Norway his maternal great grandmother was born in. I like how you put Celto-Germanic in the census, I don't know how old that term is(I think I got it from Maciamo), but it's a great definition for most northwest Europeans.

I'm going to see if I can't get in touch them and see whether or not we know some names in common.

As for Celto-Germanic, I didn't take it from Maciamo, I just thought that it was a fairly succinct representation of my ancestry, given as they all come from historically Celtic or Germanic lands. I also find the term "Caucasian" stupid beyond reckoning, unless you are, in fact, from the selfsame mountain range.

Fire Haired14
17-05-14, 16:25
Very interesting. I have also read that it came via way of Morocco sometime around the end of the last ice age. Does this corroborate or contradict the agriculture hypothesis? I thought that agriculture was brought to Europe via Anatolia?

Yeah, the Morocco thing totally contradicts the near eastern farmer theory, which has already been proven with ancient mtDNA.


As for Celto-Germanic, I didn't take it from Maciamo, I just thought that it was a fairly succinct representation of my ancestry, given as they all come from historically Celtic or Germanic lands. I also find the term "Caucasian" stupid beyond reckoning, unless you are, in fact, from the selfsame mountain range.

There are alot of inaccuracies with how the US census and Americans label people's race or ethnicity. From my own experience most American know almost nothing about history, and they don't care to learn.

JFWR
17-05-14, 19:41
Yeah, the Morocco thing totally contradicts the near eastern farmer theory, which has already been proven with ancient mtDNA.

So the hypothesis for H would follow the neolithic farmers coming out of Anatolia as well? I've read, however, that H is something like...30,000 years old as a whole. Doesn't that imply an older time period? Though it seems extremely difficult to imagine it could be a non-farming haplogroup, considering it's spread. Farmers had more children, and those haplogroups associated with non-farmers have tended to never have caught up to farmers unless there were none to be found.

You're a cool dude, Firehaired. Thanks for the help. Also, that Sheamus avatar is funny.


There are alot of inaccuracies with how the US census and Americans label people's race or ethnicity. From my own experience most American know almost nothing about history, and they don't care to learn.

Sadly, that is a highly reasonable position to take. Of course, the origination of the term "Caucasian" was not especially problematic: It is rooted in the idea that a specific, broad racial category developed in the mountains and spread through Europe, Arabia, North Africa, et cetera. Considering the racial category "Caucasian" covers, in US census data, Indo-Europeans, Semites, and North Africans of all sorts...it makes reasonable sense in that regard. But why be so imprecise? I can identify "Celto-Germanic" as a far more specific form of ancestry!

But yes, many Americans don't know crap about history, especially ancient history.