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Piro Ilir
06-10-15, 20:39
Russian war plane invades Turkish airspace! It is unnerving for Turkey because this particular region is disputed with Syria.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-says-russian-fighter-jet-violated-its-airspace-with-syria-1444040488
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/russian-fighter-jet-plane.jpg

I don't think anything significant will turn out of it. Russians are known to test their neighbors military readiness, in this case neighbors of Syria.
And NATO is too concerned about that either.

Piro Ilir
06-10-15, 20:43
If you want to bomb ISIS, you have to violate Turkish airpace. May Russia not only invade Turkish airsprace but freakn bomb the hell out of it, would love to see how Turkey is doing with countries who can actually defend themselves. As long as I remember Turkey has always bullied groups and countries who were either weakned or couldn't defend themselves.

Didn't Turkey invade Syrian airspace various times themselves? How about tasting their own medicine once themselves. If they are so tuff lets see their reaction against Russia. Bullying your weakned neighbor is always easy.
Their are not bombing ISIS. Indeed they are bombing FSA.

Sile
06-10-15, 22:20
Russia nor Iran nor kurds will ever allow that syria and Iraq will become totally sunni

I said before , the war is about Sunni .v. Shite ............Assad will be replaced in due course , but changing him, by a new leader , an example a sunni or shite leader will not resolve anything.

Do not fight on 2 fronts.............take care of ISIL first , then change Syria

Sile
06-10-15, 22:21
They are bombing ISIL in northern iraq

Sile
06-10-15, 22:22
Their are not bombing ISIS. Indeed they are bombing FSA.

They are bombing ISIL in northern iraq

Alan
07-10-15, 13:55
Kurdish MP: 4-nation coalition kicks off without Kurdish presence

http://rudaw.net/ContentFiles/163108Image1.jpg




A coalition with the Iraqis and without the Kurds, yeah sure.

Is there still need to explain that in this dirty game it is not about ISIS but West and their allies vs East and their allies. I mean just look at this alliance it's a freakn joke. Iran, Iraq, Syria (all western enemies). Whats the criteria for this coalition? Is it really ISIS or is it, who is the biggest anti Western countries?

I remember the Kurds not being invited to coalition meeting once in Europe because of the Iraqi PM refuting to accept it. People were rightfully outrageous about that.

All I see here is alliances build behind the Kurds , the only group that really deserves to be invited in any meeting is left out as usual.
http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/06102015

And this despite Erbil welcoming Russia into the war with ISIS

Erbil welcomes Russia into ISIS war, urging coordination for better outcome



http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/031020153

So once again I really feel sorry to destroy the bubble for some people but the reality is different from the wet dreams.

Alan
07-10-15, 16:26
Hopefully Russia will realize that a coalition with Iraqi Army is a waste of time and invites the Kurds.

DuPidh
08-10-15, 03:42
They are bombing ISIL in northern iraq

I think Putin has no choice but fight rebels and ISIS at the same time. I see him also turning against Kurds in SYRIA. Through keeping Syria's territory united he wins many friends in Syria, pacifies Turkey, and also allows him to negotiate an Asad removal. The west will not give up the sanctions if Putin does not come to terms with western powers demands. Putin still tries to convince the west that Russia is a major power in Europe and the world. In fact he is exposing the weakness of Russian army. Russia still has an under digitalised weaponry and 1980 technology. You have to be prepared that USA will expose their weakness soon. The rebel army will soon start shooting their planes.

DuPidh
08-10-15, 23:33
They are bombing ISIL in noern iraq

Ha,ha,ha......
Russian missile aimed at ISIS in Syria land in Iran instead. 4 of them. I will not be surprised that any one of them could land in Putins head.

Alan
09-10-15, 13:26
I think Putin has no choice but fight rebels and ISIS at the same time. I see him also turning against Kurds in SYRIA. Through keeping Syria's territory united he wins many friends in Syria, pacifies Turkey, and also allows him to negotiate an Asad removal. The west will not give up the sanctions if Putin does not come to terms with western powers demands. Putin still tries to convince the west that Russia is a major power in Europe and the world. In fact he is exposing the weakness of Russian army. Russia still has an under digitalised weaponry and 1980 technology. You have to be prepared that USA will expose their weakness soon. The rebel army will soon start shooting their planes.

Something bothers, actually why are you posting under a false flag? The way your posts have been pro Turkish it can't be simply coincidence.

Do you honestly thing. NATO will risk a war with Russia for the not so loyal and listening Turkey? Russias weakness? USA will expose what? Holy cow that guy seriously believes there will be a direct war between US and Russia over Syria.

And sorry to burst your bubble. Russia will not attack the Kurds, they made this clear from the first minute they entered Syria. But no one can guarantee if Assad will not try. But than I doubt Assad will ever gain control over all of Syria again.

Alan
09-10-15, 16:26
So as I predicted, now Russia and USA want to work closer together with Kurds. Russia is trying to find a consens between Kurds and Assad and USA has given up it's support on "rebel groups" (most of them switched between sides between FSA and ISIS /Al Qaida daily anyways) and wants to allot closer with Kurds and search for some new allies with which it will try to find consensus to Kurds.



Pentagon head: US to change Syrian rebel training program


U.S. officials have said the new effort would focus more on embedding recruits with established Kurdish and Arab units, rather than sending them directly into front-line combat. Last week, a commander of one of the U.S.-trained rebel units turned over a half-dozen U.S. vehicles to extremist militants.
"The work we've done with the Kurds in northern Syria is an example of an effective approach," Carter said. "That's exactly the kind of example that we would like to pursue with other groups in other parts of Syria going forward."
He called it a "more strategic approach" than what the U.S. has been doing from the beginning. "We have been looking for now several weeks at ways to improve that program," Carter said. "I wasn't satisfied with the early efforts in that regard."
Instead of fighting IS in small units, the U.S.-trained rebels would be attached to larger existing Kurdish and Arab forces. They would be equipped with U.S. communications gear and trained to provide intelligence and to designate IS targets for airstrikes in coordination with U.S. troops outside of Syria, the officials said.
The $500 million training program has been beset by a series of embarrassing setbacks. The first group of trainees largely disbanded soon after they were sent into combat; some were captured or killed, while others fled. A second class yielded only a small number of new fighters, drawing criticism from U.S. lawmakers who condemned the program as a joke and a failure.
The top U.S. commander in the Middle East, Gen. Lloyd Austin, acknowledged that the program got off "to a slow start" and he told Congress that he looking at options that would best employ the moderate forces.




http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-change-training-program-syrian-rebels-120945061.html



PYD leader in Washington: Russia wants to work with Syrian Kurds


WASHINGTON,— A Syrian Kurdish leader in Washington this week seeking greater US military support says that Russia has also offered to collaborate with Syrian Kurds in its current offensive against Muslim terrorist groups.
Ilham Ehmed, a senior member of the Democratic Union Party (PYD), told Al-Monitor in a brief interview Oct. 8 that “Russia says it wants to work with us” to combat the group that calls itself the Islamic State (IS) and other extremist organizations.
The Barack Obama administration has accused Russia of focusing on more moderate Sunni Arab opponents of the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, rather than IS. According to the Kurds, the United States has also frustrated their desire to expand their area of control in Syria, known as Rojava.


Russia’s stunning intervention in Syria appears to have given the PYD a new card to play with the Obama administration.

Asked for the Kurds’ view of Russia’s bombing campaign, Ehmed said it was “a good step for the fight against terrorism but on the other hand, it is empowering the Assad regime, which is a bad point.”

Ehmed also asserted, however, that there are no members of the US-backed Free Syria Army (FSA) in the area around Aleppo and Idlib that is being pummeled in the current Russian offensive.
The Pentagon and White House have a different view and say that Russia is hitting fighters there who have received US funding and training.
Fabrice Balanche, a French expert on Syria and visiting fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, told Al-Monitor that the PYD, which has expanded its territory in Syrian Kurdistan (northern Syria) on the border with Turkey since a battle for Kobani earlier this year, wants to unify two pockets of Kurdish control. He said the Kurds want to take Azaz, al-Bab, Manbaj and Jarabulus, which are all west of the Euphrates River. Balanche said Azaz is now occupied by Jabhat al-Nusra and a brigade of the FSA.





http://ekurd.net/pyd-russia-wants-work-kurds-2015-10-09


As I predicted and said all this is a golden opportunity for us Kurds. If our leaders are smart they will know to take advantage of this. FSA is DEAD. Turkey only has the choice between Kurds or Assad. US would probably manage to appease the Kurds, but Assad will turn the world to a Hell for the Turkish government the moment they gain more ground be sure about that. Russia is also not going to bomb the Kurds, no way and they are going to cooperate with us and find a consensus with Assad. This scenario is even worse for Turkey. A Kurdish autonomy to the North and Assad still on power. Welcome to Hell.

But our leaders should be smart and not led themselves be dragged onto one side and become the enemy of the other. We Kurds should finally understand that it is important to work first for our own interests. And our own interest is to establish our autonomy/country and not to help Assad or the not so moderate nationalist "Rebels".

Boreas
09-10-15, 18:00
Strong Relationship between Kurds in Iraq and USA is clear. North Iraq or Iraq Kurdistan is part of Western Pact. Kurds in Turkey also not to much USA friend but EU friend. How will Syrian Kurdistan be Cuba in the MiddleEast for Russians? This is just a Late September and check it now.

http://neurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/h_52239678.jpg

Russia's true face will be seen after Assad Army took the control of Aleppo province. We will see what will they do about Kurdish Canton Afrin/Efrin
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/The_situation_in_Afrin_district.svg/437px-The_situation_in_Afrin_district.svg.pnghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Rojava_february2014_2.pnghttp://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Syrian-Political-Situation-Map.png

LeBrok
10-10-15, 05:18
Strong Relationship between Kurds in Iraq and USA is clear. North Iraq or Iraq Kurdistan is part of Western Pact. Kurds in Turkey also not to much USA friend but EU friend. How will Syrian Kurdistan be Cuba in the MiddleEast for Russians? This is just a Late September and check it now.



Russia's true face will be seen after Assad Army took the control of Aleppo province. We will see what will they do about Kurdish Canton Afrin/Efrin

Indeed will shall know soon.

DuPidh
10-10-15, 18:09
Something bothers, actually why are you posting under a false flag? The way your posts have been pro Turkish it can't be simply coincidence.

Do you honestly thing. NATO will risk a war with Russia for the not so loyal and listening Turkey? Russias weakness? USA will expose what? Holy cow that guy seriously believes there will be a direct war between US and Russia over Syria.

And sorry to burst your bubble. Russia will not attack the Kurds, they made this clear from the first minute they entered Syria. But no one can guarantee if Assad will not try. But than I doubt Assad will ever gain control over all of Syria again.



You have a problem. You don't want to see the reality as it is. Reality is that Turkey is a lot more influential and important in the region than Kurds. Do you really believe that Russia will fight your battles? Do you really think Russia will sacrifice Syrian territories to appease Kurds?
Do you really think that in a struggle to divorce from Turkey you will emerge as winners?

LABERIA
10-10-15, 19:47
I think that Syria will be a new Afganistan for Russia

Goga
11-10-15, 10:39
Indeed will shall know soon.You don't have to wait.

Afrin was, is and always will be Kurdish, Kurdistan. It's impossible to take.

a) Afrin is a very mountainous area, so it's well defended.
b) In Afrin live the real Kurds. Rojava & Ezdi Kurds, who will fight untill the last man standing. They will never give up, the best fighters.
c) There is no Barzani there. So, there are no traitors there.

Goga
11-10-15, 10:48
@ this is the latest map of Rojava. Soon, Afrin will be connected to Kobani! Also, Arin is connected to Bakur, Northern Kurdistan


http://s4.postimg.org/qh3tt0od9/Rojava_june_2015.png

http://s4.postimg.org/9um9jxvfh/Syrian_civil_war.png

Goga
11-10-15, 10:54
You have a problem. You don't want to see the reality as it is. Reality is that Turkey is a lot more influential and important in the region than Kurds. Do you really believe that Russia will fight your battles? Do you really think Russia will sacrifice Syrian territories to appease Kurds?
Do you really think that in a struggle to divorce from Turkey you will emerge as winners?This is ridiculous. You seem to have BIG problems with the reality. You can't STOP 50 million Kurds. The Kurds/Medes are coming !

Turkey is the biggest loser, because Turkey is supporting and is part of the dark side. Turkey is about to break apart like the Ottoman was broken 100 years ago!


Russia is attacking Sunni Muslims because Sunni Muslims can become a threat to Russia in far future. So Russia is about to take them down now. Better now, then waiting till the last moment.

The Kurds will TAKE their ancestral land back. You like it or not.

Goga
11-10-15, 10:56
I think that Syria will be a new Afganistan for RussiaKeep dreaming. In Syria there're people who support Russia. Together with Russia, Kurds will destroy Sunni Muslim terrorist groups. POWER to the PEOPLE!

LABERIA
11-10-15, 13:25
Keep dreaming. In Syria there're people who support Russia. Together with Russia, Kurds will destroy Sunni Muslim terrorist groups. POWER to the PEOPLE!

I want to explain you, that i have nothing against the aspirations of your people. I am an albanian and against my people in the last 200 years is committed a genocide by both our neighbors, Greece and Serbia, especially from Serbia. Have been made plans and are writing books and "scientific" platforms, on how to exterminate Albanians. Only the Jews have suffered more than the Albanians. Albanian Golgotha was named. Russia has always been the inspiring of these plans. For the plans of the Russian strategist, the Albanians are an obstacle to their expansion in the Adriatic.
All of this genocide has occurred in the middle of Europe, which did not react in front of this attempt to exterminate a whole nation, the most oldest nation of the continent. Only the USA and Vatican, but especially the USA - for understandable reasons - on more than one occasion had saved Albanians from extinction. Hence we Albanians, are grateful to the of USA and the Holy See. I hope all the best for your people, but i don`t agree with some of your post, where you speak for the extermination of Turkey and the Turks. Because due to the history of my nation, i am in principle against the extermination of one nation, whoever he may be, including our neighbors.

Remember that the Russians historically are been shown unfaithful. So be carefully.

Regards
Laberia

DuPidh
11-10-15, 16:39
This is ridiculous. You seem to have BIG problems with the reality. You can't STOP 50 million Kurds. The Kurds/Medes are coming !

Turkey is the biggest loser, because Turkey is supporting and is part of the dark side. Turkey is about to break apart like the Ottoman was broken 100 years ago!


Russia is attacking Sunni Muslims because Sunni Muslims can become a threat to Russia in far future. So Russia is about to take them down now. Better now, then waiting till the last moment.

The Kurds will TAKE their ancestral land back. You like it or not.



My last comment on this topic. You take whatever lands you wish. But you appear to dream with open eyes. Russia is not in Syria for religion. Its there to protect its military base in Latakia. Turkey its not going to break apart any time soon. The only real chance Kurds have is Iraq. Something is not working there too.

Angela
11-10-15, 16:45
ANYONE proposing genocide or the extermination of a people or ethnic entity will find themselves banned if it's the last thing I ever do. Comprende?

Goga
11-10-15, 23:30
My last comment on this topic. You take whatever lands you wish. But you appear to dream with open eyes. Russia is not in Syria for religion. Its there to protect its military base in Latakia. Turkey its not going to break apart any time soon. The only real chance Kurds have is Iraq. Something is not working there too.Turkey is next in line to be disintegrated. The process of balkanization of Turkey is already happening, right NOW!

You are just making a mess here on this topic and don't understand any basic politics and don't know anything about the history.

I do exist because Russian saved my ancestors 100 years ago from the Sunni Muslim Ottoman terrorists. When the Sunni Muslim extremist Ottoman terrorist Turks committed a genocide on Armenians they also committed a genocide against the Ezdi Kurds 100 years ago. Russians saved al lot of Christian Armenians and Ezdi Kurds from the Muslims. Ezdi Kurds have a long history with the Russians. Russians NEVER betrayed the Ezdi Kurds.

Goga
11-10-15, 23:34
ANYONE proposing genocide or the extermination of a people or ethnic entity will find themselves banned if it's the last thing I ever do. Comprende?So you can't work (and propose) for the exterminations of Sunni Muslim terrorist groups like Daesh, Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda? Those who are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Do you want to give Nobel price to them? What's wrong with you?

Goga
11-10-15, 23:49
Turkey, Erdogan and other Turkish Islamists are in panic. Their terrorist Daesh soldiers are getting destroyed by mother Russia, Daesh are fleeing and there (Turkey) country is falling apart. Turks don't even understand what they are doing. Out of frustration they kill innocent women and children.

Game, set, match. It will be vey soon game over for Turkey and Turks can't do anything about it! The best thing Turks can do is leaving the Kurds alone and let West Turkey join the EU.


Great Kurdistan, from Amed to Kermanshah, here we come. The mighty ancestral land of the MEDES!

LeBrok
11-10-15, 23:58
I wonder how this Putin's new adventure is perceived by Russian Muslims which are overwhelmingly Sunni. To support Assad is to support Shia and Alawis against Sunni.
This could potentially backfire in more Sunni terrorist attacks back in Russia.

Goga
12-10-15, 00:08
I wonder how this Putin's new adventure is perceived by Russian Muslims which are overwhelmingly Sunni. To support Assad is to support Shia and Alawis against Sunni.
This could potentially backfire in more Sunni terrorist attacks back in Russia.
Do you know that the so called Sunni Muslims folks eat pork meat in all area of the USSR? Muslims in Russia are acting like kittens, no voice at all. Communists made them very tame. It started from kindergardens to army. Muslims were ashamed to say that they were Muslims. I was born in the USSR, so I know what I'm talking about.


I salute you mother RUSSIA! POWER to the PEOPLE!

Kurdishpatriot
12-10-15, 12:10
“We do the same to you as the IS”: Ezidis leave Akre refugee camp

Akre – The cause that led to recent clashes between Muslim Kurds and Ezidi refugees on Friday in a refugee camp located in Akre has now been clarified.

About 12,000 refugees are currently housed at the refugee camp of Mamilian, including around 9,000 Ezidis from Shingal as well as 3,000 Muslim Kurds who had to flee the Iraqi metropolis of Mosul. This camp for internally displaced persons was completed earlier this year and is under the management of Dohuk Province. In March this year, UNHCR estimated the number of refugees there at 12,503 people.

LageMamilianLagerAn ezidiPress correspondent went to the refugee camp to obtain information on the course of the incident. The camp administration told him that the Kurds in the camp had asked for the construction of a mosque on the premises of the camp. The Ezidis, however, protested the plan, claiming that there was no plausible reason for the construction since there were already hundreds of mosques located in that area, adding that the call of the Mueezin would further traumatize those Ezidi women and children who had to flee the “Islamic State” from Shingal.

On Friday morning, a verbal dispute then erupted between members of the Kurdish Shabak, Zebari and Harky tribes on the one side and Ezidis on the other. The heated verbal exchange continued until noon. Soon after, the Muslim Kurds of the camp called in their fellow tribe members from the surrounding areas who rushed to the scene armed and in the hundreds, surrounding the camp and firing shots in the air, as several refugees confirmed.

“The Kurds mobilized their relatives and fellow tribe members from the villages who then surrounded the camp. They were armed and fired shots over the camp and shouted slogans of DAESH (editor´s note: Arabic acronym for IS) terrorists. When they shouted that they would do the same to us what the IS did, the Ezidi families began to hide their women and children out of fear for them”, says an Ezidi refugee describing the course of the incident.

In several places the mob finally broke into the refugee camp, whereupon the situation escalated. Two Ezidis were seriously injured and had to be treated in hospital while other Ezidi refugees were slighlty injured. Only when security forces and Peshmerga penetrated into the camp, the mob broke out. The security forces cordoned off the camp until the next day because more clashes could not be excluded.
EzidiRefugeesInAkre

Mamilian IDP camp near the Kurdish town of Akre in KRG (EP)


Back in 2013, the Zebari tribe had attacked and surrounded the Assyrian village Rabatki near Akre. As on Friday, tribe members had fired shots over the village to intimidate the non-Muslim villagers. Even the large Harky tribe is widely considered as Islamic-conservative. The majority of the Kurdish population took in the Ezidis fleeing the IS in August last year, providing for them for weeks. However, conflicts consistently flare up again.

Several Ezidi families have already fled the camp. In contrast to the camps located in Sharya, Esiya, Baadre or Khanke near the Kurdish town of Duhok, the Mamilian refugee camp is not situated in an area that is predominantly inhabited by Ezidis. The Ezidi MP Vian Dakhil visited today the camp and promised to relocate the refugees to another one. The refugees are now supposed to be transferred to a newly built camp called Meme Reshan in Sheikhan region.
ezidipress. com/en/we-do-the-same-to-you-as-the-is-ezidis-leave-akre-refugee-camp/

Kurdishpatriot
12-10-15, 12:11
islamic conservatism=terrorism NO tolerance for islamist coservatism or religious islam!

Goga
12-10-15, 21:18
islamic conservatism=terrorism NO tolerance for islamist coservatism or religious islam!
The native homeland of the Ezdi Kurds, Ezdixan (as part of Great Kurdistan) will be free soon. Ezdixan = Shengal + Shexan.

Ezdi will run their own ancestral region by their own in the near future. Muslim Kurds know that Islam will not be really welcome in Ezdixan. So Muslim Kurds force the Ezdi out of Muslim areas, because they know that Ezdi will get their own administration and that Muslims will be not welcome in Ezdixan.

Goga
12-10-15, 21:26
Like in Rojava there will be many cantons in Northern and Southern (Iraqi) Kurdistan. Like Zazaki Kurds will get their own canton. In South Kurdistan Kirkuk, Shexan, Soran will be a different cantons. And they will all work with each other. If there will be no peacefully regime change in Hewler in the near future, the Islamic traitors in Barzani/Badini areas will be isolated from the rest of Kurdistan.

All Kurds from all parts of Kurdistan will be united, while Barzani will be isolated. And when that happens I don't see a good future for Barzani, his relatives and his clan/tribe. Eventually the real Kurds will get rid of him and his mob family.

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 12:52
A coalition with the Iraqis and without the Kurds, yeah sure.

Is there still need to explain that in this dirty game it is not about ISIS but West and their allies vs East and their allies. I mean just look at this alliance it's a freakn joke. Iran, Iraq, Syria (all western enemies). Whats the criteria for this coalition? Is it really ISIS or is it, who is the biggest anti Western countries?

I remember the Kurds not being invited to coalition meeting once in Europe because of the Iraqi PM refuting to accept it. People were rightfully outrageous about that.

All I see here is alliances build behind the Kurds , the only group that really deserves to be invited in any meeting is left out as usual.
http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/06102015

And this despite Erbil welcoming Russia into the war with ISIS


http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/031020153

So once again I really feel sorry to destroy the bubble for some people but the reality is different from the wet dreams.
According to you, what's the religious division at Kurds?

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 12:58
Something bothers, actually why are you posting under a false flag? The way your posts have been pro Turkish it can't be simply coincidence.

Do you honestly thing. NATO will risk a war with Russia for the not so loyal and listening Turkey? Russias weakness? USA will expose what? Holy cow that guy seriously believes there will be a direct war between US and Russia over Syria.

And sorry to burst your bubble. Russia will not attack the Kurds, they made this clear from the first minute they entered Syria. But no one can guarantee if Assad will not try. But than I doubt Assad will ever gain control over all of Syria again.
Don't trust too much Putin. [emoji6] . Soon or later he is gonna bomb Kurds.

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:04
So as I predicted, now Russia and USA want to work closer together with Kurds. Russia is trying to find a consens between Kurds and Assad and USA has given up it's support on "rebel groups" (most of them switched between sides between FSA and ISIS /Al Qaida daily anyways) and wants to allot closer with Kurds and search for some new allies with which it will try to find consensus to Kurds.




http://news.yahoo.com/pentagon-change-training-program-syrian-rebels-120945061.html




http://ekurd.net/pyd-russia-wants-work-kurds-2015-10-09


As I predicted and said all this is a golden opportunity for us Kurds. If our leaders are smart they will know to take advantage of this. FSA is DEAD. Turkey only has the choice between Kurds or Assad. US would probably manage to appease the Kurds, but Assad will turn the world to a Hell for the Turkish government the moment they gain more ground be sure about that. Russia is also not going to bomb the Kurds, no way and they are going to cooperate with us and find a consensus with Assad. This scenario is even worse for Turkey. A Kurdish autonomy to the North and Assad still on power. Welcome to Hell.

But our leaders should be smart and not led themselves be dragged onto one side and become the enemy of the other. We Kurds should finally understand that it is important to work first for our own interests. And our own interest is to establish our autonomy/country and not to help Assad or the not so moderate nationalist "Rebels".
Trusting Assad it's just ridiculous. After Assad will be safe from the FSA and ISIS, there will be no autonomy for the Kurds. Yours are just dreams. USA is the only which could help Kurds

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:11
This is ridiculous. You seem to have BIG problems with the reality. You can't STOP 50 million Kurds. The Kurds/Medes are coming !

Turkey is the biggest loser, because Turkey is supporting and is part of the dark side. Turkey is about to break apart like the Ottoman was broken 100 years ago!


Russia is attacking Sunni Muslims because Sunni Muslims can become a threat to Russia in far future. So Russia is about to take them down now. Better now, then waiting till the last moment.

The Kurds will TAKE their ancestral land back. You like it or not.
It seems we have an Russian aeroplane shoot down by the turkey.

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:14
Keep dreaming. In Syria there're people who support Russia. Together with Russia, Kurds will destroy Sunni Muslim terrorist groups. POWER to the PEOPLE!
What about the Shiite Hezbollah terrorist group? What about the extremist solders of the revolutionary guard of Iran, who are fighting in Iraq and Syria?

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:21
Turkey is next in line to be disintegrated. The process of balkanization of Turkey is already happening, right NOW!

You are just making a mess here on this topic and don't understand any basic politics and don't know anything about the history.

I do exist because Russian saved my ancestors 100 years ago from the Sunni Muslim Ottoman terrorists. When the Sunni Muslim extremist Ottoman terrorist Turks committed a genocide on Armenians they also committed a genocide against the Ezdi Kurds 100 years ago. Russians saved al lot of Christian Armenians and Ezdi Kurds from the Muslims. Ezdi Kurds have a long history with the Russians. Russians NEVER betrayed the Ezdi Kurds.
If I could ask? The term Ezdi is about religion or is about geographic area? Just curious

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:25
So you can't work (and propose) for the exterminations of Sunni Muslim terrorist groups like Daesh, Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda? Those who are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Do you want to give Nobel price to them? What's wrong with you?

Indeed you are the one who propose here whether ethnic extermination and religious extermination.

You think that Turks and Sunni religion should be wiped out?

You think that Sunni and ISIS are the same thing?

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:31
I wonder how this Putin's new adventure is perceived by Russian Muslims which are overwhelmingly Sunni. To support Assad is to support Shia and Alawis against Sunni.
This could potentially backfire in more Sunni terrorist attacks back in Russia.
Terrorist attacks are against the civil populace. You think that Putin cares about the dead Russians civilians? He cares only for his own power. This is normal for Tyrants

Piro Ilir
13-10-15, 13:32
Do you know that the so called Sunni Muslims folks eat pork meat in all area of the USSR? Muslims in Russia are acting like kittens, no voice at all. Communists made them very tame. It started from kindergardens to army. Muslims were ashamed to say that they were Muslims. I was born in the USSR, so I know what I'm talking about.


I salute you mother RUSSIA! POWER to the PEOPLE!
Yeah, power to Putin [emoji23]

[emoji562] [emoji631] [emoji562] [emoji631] [emoji562] [emoji631] [emoji631] [emoji631] [emoji631] [emoji631]

Boreas
13-10-15, 14:12
What about the Shiite Hezbollah terrorist group? What about the extremist solders of the revolutionary guard of Iran, who are fighting in Iraq and Syria?

Good catch. Iran and Hezbollah were the biggest enemy, now they are lovey friends. Living in EU, and saying salute you mother RUSSIA :thinking:

bicicleur
13-10-15, 14:31
Terrorist attacks are against the civil populace. You think that Putin cares about the dead Russians civilians? He cares only for his own power. This is normal for Tyrants

yes he is a tyrant
and the west promoted the mess which is now present in the Middle East
I don't know where it will end, maybe it is a good thing this tyrant is getting involved

today I read the Syrian Curds are accused of crime wars
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/
well, maybe Amnesty International is going to solve the Middle East crisis?
AI fails to see the whole picture, and by trying to defend some idle principles they are guilty of letting murder and genocide continue in the area

Goga
13-10-15, 14:42
It seems we have an Russianaeroplane shoot down by the turkey.This is no true. No point for discussion.

Russia is 100000000x times more powerful than Turkey.


What about the Shiite Hezbollahterrorist group? What about the extremist solders of the revolutionary guard ofIran, who are fighting in Iraq and Syria?I'm not a Muslim, never was a Muslim and NEVER will be Muslim. Death is better than to become a Muslim. I don't like Islam in general, be it Sunni be it Shia. The fact is that Sunni killed much more of my people. Turks are Sunni, Daesh are Sunni etc.


If I could ask? The term Ezdi is about religion or is about geographic area? Just curiousI'm an Ezdi Kurd. Before Islam most Kurmanji Kurds were Ezdi by their religion. I'm still the original Kurd.

Our Vatican or our Mecca is Lalish. Holy Lalish is in Shexan area near Dohuk, South Kurdistan.

According to us our religion, the Yezidism, is at least 8000 years old. And as long as Ezdi folks do exist they lived non-stop on their ancestral homeland in Shengal, Shexan, Dohuk, Mosul etc. We lost Mosul to Muslims. But we still live on our ancestral homeland what we call Ezdixan (home of Ezdi Kurds). Ezdixan is part of Greater Kurdistan.

The Yezidism = religion of at least 8000 years old !!
Ezdi Kurds = people (Medes / proto-Kurds)
Ezdixan = geographic region (Shengal + Shexan/Lalish + Dohuk). The holy place, home of Xode Shems & Melek Taus.

Goga
13-10-15, 14:49
Good catch. Iran and Hezbollah were the biggest enemy, now they are lovey friends. Living in EU, and saying salute you mother RUSSIA :thinking:I was born in the USSR, it's my birthplace. And I had a VERY good time there. I even lived for some years in Ukraine and Moscow. Of course I'm a little bit pro-Russia.

Has nothing to do with religion. I don't like Sunni Islam, but I don't like Shia Islam either. I'm Ezdi and will be aways Ezdi !


I don't hate Persia, not because Iran is Shia, but because Persians are Kurdish relatives by DNA, language and culture.

Persians are closer to my Kurdish culture than any other people in the world.

Alan
13-10-15, 15:16
According to Kurdish and international sources 100 tons of weapons and ammunation from the US have reached the Kurdish forces in Hassake

Alan
13-10-15, 15:22
Iraqi Kurdish leader vows to avenge Yazidis

Dohuk (Iraq) (AFP) - The president of Iraq's autonomous region of Kurdistan, Massud Barzani, promised Monday to avenge the Yazidi minority brutally attacked by the Islamic State group a year ago.




"We will hunt down those who committed this crime until the last one," Barzani said in Dohuk at a ceremony commemorating the beginning of the jihadist onslaught against the Yazidis....



http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-kurdish-leader-vows-avenge-yazidis-131634937.html

Goga
13-10-15, 15:28
50 ton yet. It was meant for the Arabs who support Rojava. And only light weapons and ammunition.It’s not much. You can use 200 ton of light weapons/ammunition in 1 day.

I hope we will get surface to air missiles from MOTHER Russia against the Turkish airplanes.

I'm waiting for a moment when Sadi Arabia and Turkey are going to help Daesh OPENLY against Russia. When this happens the Kurds will get surface to air missiles against the Russian warplanes. After the Kurds will shut down 10 Turkish warplanes, Turkey will be brought on its knees and it will capitulate. Without airplanes, Turkey is NO match against the Kurds.

Goga
13-10-15, 15:29
According to Kurdish and international sources 100 tons of weapons and ammunation from the US have reached the Kurdish forces in Hassake
50 ton yet. It was meant for the Arabs who support Rojava. And only light weapons and ammunition.

It's not much. You can use 200 ton of light weapons/ammunition in 1 day.

I hope we will get surface to air missiles from MOTHER Russia against the Turkish airplanes.


I'm waiting for a moment when Sadi Arabia and Turkey are going to help Daesh OPENLY against Russia. When this happens the Kurds will get surface to air missiles against the Turkish warplanes. After the Kurds will shut down 10 Turkish warplanes, Turkey will be brought on its knees and it will capitulate. Without airplanes, Turkey is NO match against the Kurds.

Goga
13-10-15, 15:38
http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-kurdish-leader-vows-avenge-yazidis-131634937.htmlHe should start with himself, his own son and his own tribe. He betrayed the Ezdi Kurds when his private army of 10000 Peshmerga retreated from Shengal and gave our holy region and our women & children to Sunni Daesh terrorists.Sunni Muslim Kurdish tribes that lived with Ezdi Kurds betrayd their racial brothers of different religon.

We will NEVER forget that.

The main person is responsible for the genocide on Ezdi Kurds (Shengal Genocide) is Barzani. Every Ezdi knows that. And sooner or later we will get our revenge.


100 years ago Ottoman Turks comitted a Genocide on Ezdi Kurds and look what happened to the Ottoman state. It doesn't exist anymore. KARMA


100 years later Jews, Americans, Turks with help of Barzani also comitted a genoced on Ezdi Kurds.


And now we will see what will happen to Israel, Turkey, some Arab states, the USA and Barzani. It's all about KARMA. Everybody who is attacking the Ezdi Kurds are losing much more at the end. Meleke Taus will take care of them...

LeBrok
13-10-15, 16:43
According to Kurdish and international sources 100 tons of weapons and ammunation from the US have reached the Kurdish forces in Hassake
Let's hope it's a good start. :)
Was it a direct shipment or is it still going through Baghdad?

Goga
13-10-15, 16:55
Let's hope it's a good start. :)
Was it a direct shipment or is it still going through Baghdad?Hassake / Cizire is a Kurdish Canton in Rojava (Syrian / Western Kurdistan).


Kurds don't have own weapon factories yet, so we need weapons and we will accepts weapons from anybody who wants to sell them to us. We have gold, oil and natural gas..


We need surface to air missiles against Turkey. We have some when there will be a big war against Turkey, but we need more.


The US is promising weapons for YPG/YPJ .


This is the beginning :


http://s3.postimg.org/divlmtwxv/Kurdish_weapons_US_LOOP.png

Alan
13-10-15, 18:00
Let's hope it's a good start. :)
Was it a direct shipment or is it still going through Baghdad?

It was for Kurds in Syria and direct shipping.

Boreas
13-10-15, 21:01
I don't hate Persia, not because Iran is Shia, but because Persians are Kurdish relatives by DNA, language and culture.


DNA :grin:

You are Kurdificated son of R1a and I am Turkificated.

Alan
14-10-15, 00:03
DNA :grin:

You are Kurdificated son of R1a and I am Turkificated.

Kurdificated son of R1a ? How sense does that make? Or maybe you mean R1a is Turkish? Even though I don't follow his logic, I think he means aDNA.

Boreas
14-10-15, 06:49
Kurdificated son of R1a ? How sense does that make? Or maybe you mean R1a is Turkish? Even though I don't follow his logic, I think he means aDNA.

Big disappointment :annoyed:. Try to use your imagination to find different bad meanings under my words!!!

Maybe you believe Adam was Kurds and first R1a is also Kurd. If you can't catch the point, this should be only result in your head

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/haplogroups-timeline.gif

Alan
14-10-15, 12:57
Big disappointment :annoyed:. Try to use your imagination to find different bad meanings under my words!!!

Maybe you believe Adam was Kurds and first R1a is also Kurd. If you can't catch the point, this should be only result in your head

http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/haplogroups-timeline.gif

YOu have lost the point long time ago. You don't seem to understand how yDNA works. You probably think R1a reached him with a time mashine :laughing:

It simply means an ancestor of this R1a survived all the way to modern times nothing more nothing less, has nothing to do with Kurdification or who or what could he have been before being kurdified :laughing: oh man.

Goga
14-10-15, 13:15
Maybe you believe Adam was Kurds and first R1a is also Kurd. If you can't catch the point, this should be only result in your head
I'm R1a*, most people came from R1a1, but my R1a* evolved from old R1a. My R1a* is very old and one of the most archaic one. And I'm Kurd.

Are you also R1a* and don't belong to R1a1? If that is the case you will be one those lost sons of Kurdish soil, that would be interesting.

Piro Ilir
14-10-15, 15:53
yes he is a tyrant
and the west promoted the mess which is now present in the Middle East
I don't know where it will end, maybe it is a good thing this tyrant is getting involved

today I read the Syrian Curds are accused of crime wars
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/
well, maybe Amnesty International is going to solve the Middle East crisis?
AI fails to see the whole picture, and by trying to defend some idle principles they are guilty of letting murder and genocide continue in the area
Why the West promoted that mess?[emoji45] . Who was the one bombing civilians in Aleppo and at other parts of Syria? ! Assad, not the west. Who was against the no flying zone over Syria? ! Putin. ISIS started in Syria only afterward the massacres made by the terrorist regime of Assad. Terrorism brings only terrorism.

Piro Ilir
14-10-15, 16:01
This is no true. No point for discussion.

Russia is 100000000x times more powerful than Turkey.

I'm not a Muslim, never was a Muslim and NEVER will be Muslim. Death is better than to become a Muslim. I don't like Islam in general, be it Sunni be it Shia. The fact is that Sunni killed much more of my people. Turks are Sunni, Daesh are Sunni etc.

I'm an Ezdi Kurd. Before Islam most Kurmanji Kurds were Ezdi by their religion. I'm still the original Kurd.

Our Vatican or our Mecca is Lalish. Holy Lalish is in Shexan area near Dohuk, South Kurdistan.

According to us our religion, the Yezidism, is at least 8000 years old. And as long as Ezdi folks do exist they lived non-stop on their ancestral homeland in Shengal, Shexan, Dohuk, Mosul etc. We lost Mosul to Muslims. But we still live on our ancestral homeland what we call Ezdixan (home of Ezdi Kurds). Ezdixan is part of Greater Kurdistan.

The Yezidism = religion of at least 8000 years old !!
Ezdi Kurds = people (Medes / proto-Kurds)
Ezdixan = geographic region (Shengal + Shexan/Lalish + Dohuk). The holy place, home of Xode Shems & Melek Taus.
Russia is not denying the crash down of that war plane, so probably it is true that the turkey shoot down it.

Yes, maybe Russia is more powerful than turkey, but this not mean that the turkey didn't shoot down one of their warplanes.

So Ezdi is a geographic term, right! What kind of religion is that anyway, I never heard about that. It's monotheistic or polytheism?

Piro Ilir
14-10-15, 16:03
I was born in the USSR, it's my birthplace. And I had a VERY good time there. I even lived for some years in Ukraine and Moscow. Of course I'm a little bit pro-Russia.

Has nothing to do with religion. I don't like Sunni Islam, but I don't like Shia Islam either. I'm Ezdi and will be aways Ezdi !


I don't hate Persia, not because Iran is Shia, but because Persians are Kurdish relatives by DNA, language and culture.

Persians are closer to my Kurdish culture than any other people in the world.
Yes, and either you like Iran because it's the allied of Russia. [emoji6]

Piro Ilir
14-10-15, 16:04
According to Kurdish and international sources 100 tons of weapons and ammunation from the US have reached the Kurdish forces in Hassake
Where is hassake?

Goga
14-10-15, 16:29
Russia is not denying the crash down of that war plane, so probably it is true that the turkey shoot down it.
Lol, Russia is not going to react on any stupid baseless claim made by others about them. Russians are not as retard as those who make retard propaganda. Russians are not going to lower them to those retard claims.

If that was the case, Russia would bomb Turkey to a stone age already..

Piro Ilir
15-10-15, 12:12
Lol, Russia is not going to react on any stupid baseless claim made by others about them. Russians are not as retard as those who make retard propaganda. Russians are not going to lower them to those retard claims.

If that was the case, Russia would bomb Turkey to a stone age already..

To a stone age? .... I really doubt. I don't think Russia has such a powerful war machine.

The crash of that aeroplane is not a routine news. If that was not true, they were gonna deny that. You think Russia is gonna bomb turkey just for only one aeroplane! No way

Alan
15-10-15, 14:24
yes he is a tyrant
and the west promoted the mess which is now present in the Middle East
I don't know where it will end, maybe it is a good thing this tyrant is getting involved

today I read the Syrian Curds are accused of crime wars
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/10/syria-us-allys-razing-of-villages-amounts-to-war-crimes/
well, maybe Amnesty International is going to solve the Middle East crisis?
AI fails to see the whole picture, and by trying to defend some idle principles they are guilty of letting murder and genocide continue in the area

Exactly not only that this accusation came up from Amnesty International one year ago and this seems to be exactly the same article. Not only do the fail to see the whole picture, they also fail to provide clear evidences.

If someone ready the article entirely just like last time it gets obvious that Amenisty International is basing their accusation on statements on some radical Arab "rebel" groups, they didn't even cared to investigate this they simply took up the accusation. This makes me wonder, just like last time if Amnesty International is not payed by rich Arab countries to spray this accusations.

Last time when they came with the same accusation, PYD made a statement and Arab residence who were interviewed by international news outlets falsified this accusation.

Ironicly this accusation came exactly during a time when Arab settlers from Tal Abyad, who were settled there by ISIS in Kurdish homes fled towards the Turkish border when the Kurdish forces entered the region. Amnesty International came with this argumentation just like a firing gun almost like in support for ISIS (or on command of an Arab country and Turkey that is supportive for ISIS) the accusation that "Kurdish forces are trying to ethnicly cleansen the era. But did they bother to write the same when these Arab settlers took the homes of Kurds when ISIS came? Since when is it ethnicly cleansining, when Kurds take back what was taken from them? Can anyone seriously trust any of the Arabic rebel groups of Syria?


Amnesty International is a big joke.

Kurdishpatriot
16-10-15, 00:27
we should never ever trust putin, he betrays and switched allies so fast. Used to be allied with turkey, now increases alliance with israelis. erdogan and putin used to be dictator bff's. We can trust america, because they will always be there for help. Republicans give way more help but hell even democrats help us more than russia.

Yetos
16-10-15, 10:23
I think someone is having a double account, and play political games,

Alan
16-10-15, 14:26
we should never ever trust putin, he betrays and switched allies so fast. Used to be allied with turkey, now increases alliance with israelis. erdogan and putin used to be dictator bff's. We can trust america, because they will always be there for help. Republicans give way more help but hell even democrats help us more than russia.

Russia does what they consider best for their country I agree Russia is less "help orientated " than the US but they are not very different in their approach on foreign politics to US.

As I said the main reason Russia entered the Syrian war official has not much to do with ISIS, they even acknowledged that recently (Otherwise they would have reacted much earlier) but helping the weakned Assad army. Recently Russia had talks with Saudi Arabia and it was said after this talks from official Russian side "Saudi Arabia and we have similar goals for Syria". Really?


Putin and Saudi defense minister meet in Russia, agree on common goals in Syria




https://www.rt.com/news/318324-putin-saudi-goals-syria/

Wasn't the main argument of Anti US peeps that they are allied with Saudi Arabia, an dictatorship as bad as IS. But suddenly I don't hear a word anymore. Now seriously as I said in my first comment. It doesn't seem to matter if someone is allied to Dictatorships or someone is bombing what seems to matter is who is allied and who is bombing. Is it my preffered group or is it the group I hate based on my political ideology?

People who think Russia is there to rescue the whole world and it all would be much different if Russia was in US position need to freakn stop wet dreaming. Russia and US have not much difference when it comes to their foreign policy, it's all about what benefits me most.

However as I posted earlier. Both side 1. Can't afford to bomb Kurds. Simply cause they wouldn't have any explanation for that. 2. Both sides are not interested in bombing the Kurds, obviously if both sides have acknowledged that you are a good group, than you are doing all right.
3. Both sides want to win the Kurds for themselves for many reasons, some of them reaching even outside the current Syrian borders. Kurds are becoming an much more important factor. A factor both sides want to react to as early as possible.

4. Both sides have actually a rather "positive" (from their perspective) historical experience with Kurds. They were close allies and it was definitely not the Kurds who betrayed them. So even if this is rather a smaller factor, I think they feel a historic responsibility for the current situation of the Kurds (what they should).

As I said I don't think, and it doesn't seem like Russia will attack the Kurds. Russia has already offered the Syrian Kurds their help but with this comes that Kurds would need to accept Assad and I am not sure if the Kurds are ready to trust Assad after all what happened.

The current situation we are in, neither Russia nor the West is hostile towards us. As long as they don't attack us or support groups to attack us I am fine with the situation.
Actually the fact that Russia attacked Syrian "Rebel groups"/ISIS/AL Qaida and offered us to come on their side with Assad, forced the US to cooperate closer with us because it showed the Syrian Rebel groups without our help are nothing. So all this is currently playing in our hands and if we are smart we will benefit from this.

This is why Turkey is so scared and furiously telling both US and Russia not to arm us. They fear we could widen our territory towards the Mediterranean. Reaching the Mediterranean would destroy all the dirty Neo Ottoman fantasies because of obvious reasons, you can't bully a group who can defend themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/15/world/middleeast/turkey-expresses-concern-to-us-and-russia-over-help-for-syrian-kurds.html

Yetos
18-10-15, 07:11
from what I read today it seems that in the war theatre, actors play a different role last days,

as it seems Turkey shut down a Russian spy drone, and not a war plane, as it was believed,

Russia is not about to give guns to Kurds,

and Russia play the dirty role of USA,
at about over 90 airstrike manage to destroy more than 80 DAESH tanks made in USA that IS took from Iraqi warehouses,
and a modern strong artillery Battery owned by DAESH (no identification of origin)

Russian seem to be the more effective at disarming DAESH modern weaponry, and restore forces equation, that was disturbed with made in USA weaponry of the last,
but does not show any willingness to suply Kurds of Syrria with modern weapons,

on the other coach, the silence of USA rather show an agreement with Russian acts, on bombing and disarming DAESH heavy forces,
as it seems DAESH was a pain in the .... for them also,


I THINK STABILIZATION OF FORCES AND LAND IS SOON TO COME THERE, BEFORE CHINA or EUENTERS THE GAME,
IF CHINA or EU ENTERS IT WOULD BE MORE COMPLICATED,

the big gain is for Turkey,
Erdogan needed a victory after all that mess and Berlin through EU gave him partial control of Aegean,
that means that international sea laws (6-12 miles) in Aegean are not any more effective, and Turkey has the right (given by EU) to sunk ships in the Aegean,
that passed silently in Greece, which seems to show tremendous annex of late EU positions about immigration and Turkey partial control of Aegean,
it seems Greece is showing tremendous annex, which might had to do with economical problems, or with weak politicians,
but the army is disapointed,

after the EU comission Turkey gained 3 things

1 Visa is not nessesary to travel EU for Turkish citizens !!!!!!!!

2 Turkey gained the right to put NOTAM (forbiden passage) in Greek FIR and sea borders
that is a dangerous situation since since speacial air corrdors like g-33 and N130 are in the Aegean,
meaning that Turkey is offcially covered by EU commision to shut down planes even civilian that pass above Aegean, or sunk ships when sets a NOTAM,
NOTAM is a guide with latitudes that forbits any passage from area, and every move is considered hostile action,

3 A total amount of more than 3 billion EΥΡΩ help to military and refugge actions


PS
after all these, can someone still deny that USA and Russia are not cooperating?



PS 2

in the photo is the first Greek from around 75 who volunteer with Kurdish forces against DAESH
and the first Greek who was KIA


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2679882/thumbs/o-MATSON-570.jpg?6

Piro Ilir
18-10-15, 14:08
from what I read today it seems that in the war theatre, actors play a different role last days,

as it seems Turkey shut down a Russian spy drone, and not a war plane, as it was believed,

Russia is not about to give guns to Kurds,

and Russia play the dirty role of USA,
at about over 90 airstrike manage to destroy more than 80 DAESH tanks made in USA that IS took from Iraqi warehouses,
and a modern strong artillery Battery owned by DAESH (no identification of origin)

Russian seem to be the more effective at disarming DAESH modern weaponry, and restore forces equation, that was disturbed with made in USA weaponry of the last,
but does not show any willingness to suply Kurds of Syrria with modern weapons,

on the other coach, the silence of USA rather show an agreement with Russian acts, on bombing and disarming DAESH heavy forces,
as it seems DAESH was a pain in the .... for them also,


I THINK STABILIZATION OF FORCES AND LAND IS SOON TO COME THERE, BEFORE CHINA or EUENTERS THE GAME,
IF CHINA or EU ENTERS IT WOULD BE MORE COMPLICATED,

the big gain is for Turkey,
Erdogan needed a victory after all that mess and Berlin through EU gave him partial control of Aegean,
that means that international sea laws (6-12 miles) in Aegean are not any more effective, and Turkey has the right (given by EU) to sunk ships in the Aegean,
that passed silently in Greece, which seems to show tremendous annex of late EU positions about immigration and Turkey partial control of Aegean,
it seems Greece is showing tremendous annex, which might had to do with economical problems, or with weak politicians,
but the army is disapointed,

after the EU comission Turkey gained 3 things

1 Visa is not nessesary to travel EU for Turkish citizens !!!!!!!!

2 Turkey gained the right to put NOTAM (forbiden passage) in Greek FIR and sea borders
that is a dangerous situation since since speacial air corrdors like g-33 and N130 are in the Aegean,
meaning that Turkey is offcially covered by EU commision to shut down planes even civilian that pass above Aegean, or sunk ships when sets a NOTAM,
NOTAM is a guide with latitudes that forbits any passage from area, and every move is considered hostile action,

3 A total amount of more than 3 billion EΥΡΩ help to military and refugge actions


PS
after all these, can someone still deny that USA and Russia are not cooperating?



PS 2

in the photo is the first Greek from around 75 who volunteer with Kurdish forces against DAESH
and the first Greek who was KIA


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2679882/thumbs/o-MATSON-570.jpg?6
Russia is there for only one reason: helping Assad's regime. Why they should help Kurds? !

ElHorsto
18-10-15, 16:43
after all these, can someone still deny that USA and Russia are not cooperating?

Russia always desired to cooperate with the west, but only on par, that is no secret. That's why they kept calling the US "our partners" (not "our masters" or "our enemies") even during the height of anti-russian hostility last year. It was ridiculous. Now since Russia's actions and alliances in the middle east, Obama grudgingly had to admit the failure of their strategy (whichever true goal they had) and were forced to take more clear and open position.
Also business cooperations are very common even among war enemies. That's no conspiracy, just maximum profit.
I also don't think that Russia is particularly interested in strengthening the Kurds.

Goga
18-10-15, 17:02
" "But neither the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) nor the Democratic Union Party (PYD) are considered terrorist organizations by either Russia or the United Nations Security Council," said Russian Ambassador to Ankara Andrey Karlov during an interview with Russian news agency Ria Novosti.

He added that while Russia had contacted Syrian Kurdish representatives, they did not have any contacts within the PKK. "


http://diplomacy.bgnnews.com/moscow-doesnt-recognize-pkk-as-terrorist-organization-says-russian-envoy-haberi/10394

monoGon
22-10-15, 15:52
Lots of external players in the Kurdish issue and what worries me worst is that many of them are skillful liars! Telling the truth, that is really important now to solve most vital Kurdish issue and pacify Middle East as a whole. This stuff seems to be rather amusing reading in the context

ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1275114?ref=feeds%2Flatest

LeBrok
07-11-15, 23:48
I wonder what will Putin do if it turns that Russian plane was destroyed by Daesh bomb? Will he send ground troops to fight them?

LeBrok
07-11-15, 23:51
In memory of killed Canadian. He was helping Kurds fight ISIS.


John Robert Gallagher
http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.2643337.1446681523!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canadian-killed-in-syria-fighting-isis-identified-1.2642528

bicicleur
08-11-15, 11:13
I wonder what will Putin do if it turns that Russian plane was destroyed by Daesh bomb? Will he send ground troops to fight them?

in Europe some are afraid ISIS will now start attacking civilians worldwide
it is an argument to keep restraint and not to confront ISIS head on
Europeans are chickens, I wonder whether they are able to do what it takes
we prefer to wait for the US and the Russians to act and after that we critisize them
we tend to give credit to organisations like the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights who spread news info that can't be checked

Yetos
08-11-15, 14:19
in Europe some are afraid ISIS will now start attacking civilians worldwide
it is an argument to keep restraint and not to confront ISIS head on
Europeans are chickens, I wonder whether they are able to do what it takes
we prefer to wait for the US and the Russians to act and after that we critisize them
we tend to give credit to organisations like the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights who spread news info that can't be checked

Europe is dying, we used to call Asia as the 'elder continent', but seems Europe is the one,
soon Eurabia will raise from the ashes of Europe,
and all the enlighment time achievements will pass under religious censore, and islamic holy inguisistion,
Dark ages are coming for Humanity,
Voltaire will be considered as a demon, and all academic rules will fade, under the fetvas,

I was reading today about the rape density raising, in some areas in Europe
'Lucky' women, they do not have to learn alphabet, neither drive a car,

Piro Ilir
08-11-15, 15:08
I wonder what will Putin do if it turns that Russian plane was destroyed by Daesh bomb? Will he send ground troops to fight them?
Russians are already there. They are in Letakya. They don't need more troops there, because they have Hezbollah troops on the ground. Just need for weapons

Piro Ilir
08-11-15, 15:15
Europe is dying, we used to call Asia as the 'elder continent', but seems Europe is the one,
soon Eurabia will raise from the ashes of Europe,
and all the enlighment time achievements will pass under religious censore, and islamic holy inguisistion,
Dark ages are coming for Humanity,
Voltaire will be considered as a demon, and all academic rules will fade, under the fetvas,

I was reading today about the rape density raising, in some areas in Europe
'Lucky' women, they do not have to learn alphabet, neither drive a car,
On the future that whole Europe will be islamised. This would happen many years onward form now. Till that day the majority of Muslims would be less conservative than they are today. The Islam world of the future will a tolerant and liberal one. This happened with Christianity. Seems history repeat itself.

LeBrok
08-11-15, 20:35
Russians are already there. They are in Letakya. They don't need more troops there, because they have Hezbollah troops on the ground. Just need for weapons
Yes, so far they engage in same capacity as the West, with bombing raids, weapons supply and advisory. I'm thinking that Putin will send ground troops to defeat IS with vengeance now, and with support of most Russians.
You can't give modern tanks or missile launchers to Hezbollah for two reasons. It takes years of training to master sophisticated weapons, secondly well armed Hezbollah is a dangerous proposition for stability of the region after IS is defeated.

LeBrok
08-11-15, 20:49
On the future that whole Europe will be islamised. This would happen many years onward form now. Till that day the majority of Muslims would be less conservative than they are today. The Islam world of the future will a tolerant and liberal one. This happened with Christianity. Seems history repeat itself. It baffles me that people won't acknowledge possibility that Muslim population can become more secular and tolerant in the future, the way Christians did. There is plenty of evidence that Muslims who live in the West, Bosnia and Albania included, being tolerant and good citizens, on par with majority of Christians or atheists. The picture is skewed by high profile stories of radical elements and ultra conservative sects.
There is about 1 million Muslims in Canada, and most of them can't be recognized just by the look. They look and behave completely normal like the rest of population. Sporadic trouble comes only from a tiny margin, and usually radicalized on internet angry and mental cases.

Piro Ilir
09-11-15, 13:39
Yes, so far they engage in same capacity as the West, with bombing raids, weapons supply and advisory. I'm thinking that Putin will send ground troops to defeat IS with vengeance now, and with support of most Russians.
You can't give modern tanks or missile launchers to Hezbollah for two reasons. It takes years of training to master sophisticated weapons, secondly well armed Hezbollah is a dangerous proposition for stability of the region after IS is defeated.
Yes, but today they have weapons, which can be easy to use. We remember what happened in Afghanistan during the Russian invasion! They don't need tanks. And don't underestimate Hezbollah. I think they are trained. I think the war is not gonna stop for a long time. Actually we have another war in Yemen, although no one talks about that because it's further away from Europe. The war in Yemen it's related to the war in Syria. We have also tensions between China and USA at West Pacific ocean. The situation it's too problematic. All this happened because we have at white house an weak president.

Piro Ilir
09-11-15, 13:42
Yes, so far they engage in same capacity as the West, with bombing raids, weapons supply and advisory. I'm thinking that Putin will send ground troops to defeat IS with vengeance now, and with support of most Russians.
You can't give modern tanks or missile launchers to Hezbollah for two reasons. It takes years of training to master sophisticated weapons, secondly well armed Hezbollah is a dangerous proposition for stability of the region after IS is defeated.
Ah , I forgot something: if Hezbollah is dangerous about the stability of the region, this isn't the preoccupation or Russia. They don't care

LeBrok
12-11-15, 08:22
Off topic posts moved here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/31708-Can-Muslims-live-peacefully-with-Christians-and-vice-versa

LeBrok
12-11-15, 08:26
Major Kurdish offensive started to cut ISIL supply root to Mosul.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/world/middleeast/isis-iraq-syria.html?_r=0

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2014/06/12/isis-stack/0ca6ef023e345729bc46a8b40ef84a072e0b324f/isis_road_op-Artboard_5.jpg

Boreas
12-11-15, 08:52
Yazidis' Sinjar Mountains

Arame
14-11-15, 10:04
I read that Sinjar is free. My congratulations to all Kurds and other people of goodwill.
Step by step the Kurdistan will be free and independent.

LeBrok
14-11-15, 18:19
It was quick. God job Kurds!

As I said before, IS is extended and becomes depleted. All they can count on are terrorist attacks. They will be gone in few months. If Russians or French could send ground troops they would be gone in weeks.

bicicleur
14-11-15, 19:19
It was quick. God job Kurds!

As I said before, IS is extended and becomes depleted. All they can count on are terrorist attacks. They will be gone in few months. If Russians or French could send ground troops they would be gone in weeks.

one of the 8 terrorists in Paris would be a man with French Nationality who became ISIS fighter and returned to France last month via Greece as a 'Syrian refugee'

Sile
14-11-15, 20:03
one of the 8 terrorists in Paris would be a man with French Nationality who became ISIS fighter and returned to France last month via Greece as a 'Syrian refugee'

the problem with free movement in the EU .................they appear to come back via germany and netherlands and not checked at the french border

Piro Ilir
16-11-15, 20:37
I read that Sinjar is free. My congratulations to all Kurds and other people of goodwill.
Step by step the Kurdistan will be free and independent.
Yes. Although I hope their compass shows west direction [emoji6], and remain thus.

Angela
18-11-15, 19:21
This is an interesting read in terms of the concerns the Obama administration apparently has in arming the Kurds:

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/one-americans-freedom-fighter-is-another-persons-terrorist/

Sile
18-11-15, 20:12
I do not know why Obama is throwing his support to the arabic SUNNI community, when nearly all terrorists attacks in the last decade are behind done by these types.

Time for Obama to go...........his lack of support for his allies leaves a lot to be desired.
I wonder how he will cope if France commence article #5 of Nato

Sile
18-11-15, 20:16
The Kurdish sun shines bright and high above Kurdistan.

Things are going very well for the Kurds.


PKK is peoples party and people are PKK. The Kurdish nation is behind the PKK. Power to the people!


I hear that there will be a huge Kurdistan patriotic liberation war against the Turks. The Kurdish race will get rid of the Turks for once and for all. PKK is well prepared and ready for a big battle against the Turkish state. 50 million Kurds are behind PKK. And we are confident for 100% that we are going to defeat the Turks.


Kurds are afraid of nothing and nobody, and especially not for the Turks. PKK is about to liberate the whole Kurdistan and even the whole Middle East. When Kurdistan is liberated it will be very good for countries like Georgia and Armenia! People in the Caucasus will become much richer. Georgia and Armenia will get cheap oil, gas etc. from Kurdistan. There will be trade between Kurdistan and people of the Caucasus.

PKK = 50 million Kurds. PKK is the people and power to the people!


I would agree..............its only the kurds that have stopped the genocide by encroaching arabic people ( look at the yazidi for one, the
indigenous syrians as another)

Goga
18-11-15, 20:31
I do not know why Obama is throwing his support to the arabic SUNNI community, when nearly all terrorists attacks in the last decade are behind done by these types.

Time for Obama to go...........his lack of support for his allies leaves a lot to be desired.
I wonder how he will cope if France commence article #5 of Nato
Obama is still protecting his chilrden. Daesh, IS whatever you want to call them are children of America. Counries like Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar are feeding American children.

American children disappointed their masters, because they proved to be very weak and couldn't do anything about the growing influences of Persia and Russian in the Middle East.

In general Sunni folks are very weak, they (Arabs, Turks) can't fight. Sunni used always other races for their wars. The US gambled on the wrong (very weak) people and they lost.

To not losing American influence in the Middle East, The US has to rethink their policies. The best solutions for the US is supporting the Kurds, create great Kurdistan and get the Kurds on their side.


When there will be Great Kurdistan in the Middle East, there will be order in the Middle East. Turks, Arabs, Persians will get to know their place.


Arabs, Turks and Persian are way to arrogant compared what they are capable of, and Muslims are capable of nothing.

Goga
18-11-15, 20:43
I would agree..............its only the kurds that have stopped the genocide by encroaching arabic people ( look at the yazidi for one, the
indigenous syrians as another)Yeah, the real Kurds. By the real Kurds I mean PKK and Kurds in Rojava, Western Kurdistan.

The real Kurds are those who fight against the neo-Nazi fascist Islam.


And there was a genocide against the Ezdi folks, but it would be more catastrophical without the PKK. Without PKK there would be a total extermination of the Ezdi Kurds. Instead of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands would be killed. And Kurds from Rojava and PKK saved their racial Ezdi Kurdish brothers in Shengal, Ezdixan. There was a betrayal by Kurds from South Kurdistan, those who support Islamo-fascist Barzani. Without the betrayal of Islamist Barzani, there would be no genocide at all. Barzani, tribal leader in South Kurdistan, is the weakest link here.


The same PKK and the real Kurds who are fighting against neo-Nazi fascist Islam will defeat Turkish state and will liberate Northern Kurdistan. Without Northern Kurdistan, Kurdistan is not free. The capital of the whole Great Kurdistan is Amed, and Amed is in Northern Kurdistan.

PKK is well preparedand ready for the patriotic liberation war. I think we will witness a total waragainst the Turkish occupiers just in few months! We're 100% convincedthat we will win this war. And people are not afraid, and especial not afraid of Turks.


Power to the PEOPLE!

bicicleur
18-11-15, 20:52
This is an interesting read in terms of the concerns the Obama administration apparently has in arming the Kurds:

http://www.unz.com/gnxp/one-americans-freedom-fighter-is-another-persons-terrorist/

why then does he then trust the Turks and the Saudis?

the Kurd terrorist actions were long time ago and öcalan has denounced terrorism since
the Kurds were clearly challenged and intimidated by Erdogan before last 1st november elections with some bloody attacks on peacefull demonstrators and it is not clear who was responsable
sometimes it looks like Turkey is playing a double game as strategic western allies but they'd rather support ISIS to attack the Kurds
furthermore Erdogan is using more and more a fascist Muslim language and it clearly pleases a lot of Turks

the Saudis send imams all around the world to preach hatred
a large part the Saudi population is basically fundamentalist Muslim, Wahabist, the worst kind
but the Saudis are waisting so much money and the oil price is to low for them
I think within 5 years their regime will tumble, but will it stop Wahabism?

another thing Obama should consider
if he will not declare war to fundamentalist Islam there might come some kind of alliance between Europe and Russia
I'm sure he is considering it because he now started talking to the Russians himself
he should have acted much earlier

Goga
18-11-15, 21:01
why then does he then trust the Turks and the Saudis?
Erdogan, Turks in general are puppets of America. Turks are doing everything American are telling them.

Kurds are fighting not only against the Turks but against America. At this moment the US is enemy of Kurds.


Because of Russia (Putin) Kurds are save. Without Mother Russia, Kurds would be in bigger trouble now.

Angela
18-11-15, 21:36
Erdogan, Turks in general are puppets of America. Turks are doing everything American are telling them.

Kurds are fighting not only against the Turks but against America. At this moment the US is enemy of Kurds.


Because of Russia (Putin) Kurds are save. Without Mother Russia, Kurds would be in bigger trouble now.

You have some nerve. You're begging for U.S. aid and then you come out with this drek?

Now that I'm reading more into the matter, I do understand the Obama administration's hesitancy in arming certain Kurds. They don't want to repeat what was done in Afghanistan when they armed anti-Soviet fighters only to find out that they were religious authoritarians, not democrats.

The PKK is defined as a left-wing anarchist utopian movement. First of all, anyone that proclaims himself an anarchist is someone who doesn't have a clue about setting up a stable state, and I say that as someone who comes from an area that had a very strong anarchist movement history. We also know what left-wing anarchist utopian movements do when they take power.

I realize that a lot of times one has to choose the lesser of two evils, but I now see why the American administration has been a little hesitant in arming some Kurdish groups.

It's when you learn things like this that it can appear to westerners that some people just aren't capable of modern democratic style government, and maybe we would have been better off just leaving all the right wing dictators in place.

As for Turkey being an American pawn, if they're such pawns, why can't NATO get them to agree to united action against ISIS?

From recent polls I've seen on public opinion in Turkey, they're half way to conversion to ISIS already.

Goga
18-11-15, 21:49
You have some nerve. You're begging for U.S. aid and then you come out with this drek?

Now that I'm reading more into the matter, I do understand the Obama administration's hesitancy in arming certain Kurds. They don't want to repeat what was done in Afghanistan when they armed anti-Soviet fighters only to find out that they were religious authoritarians, not democrats.

The PKK is defined as a left-wing anarchist utopian movement. First of all, anyone that proclaims himself an anarchist is someone who doesn't have a clue about setting up a stable state, and I say that as someone who comes from an area that had a very strong anarchist movement history. We also know what left-wing anarchist utopian movements do when they take power.

I realize that a lot of times one has to choose the lesser of two evils, but I now see why the American administration has been a little hesitant in arming some Kurdish groups.

It's when you learn things like this that it can appear to westerners that some people just aren't capable of modern democratic style government, and maybe we would have been better off just leaving all the right wing dictators in place.

As for Turkey being an American pawn, if they're such pawns, why can't NATO get them to agree to united action against ISIS?

From recent polls I've seen on public opinion in Turkey, they're half way to conversion to ISIS already.
There are no united actions against Daesh, becasue the US doesn't want real strong actions agaist their Daesh children. They are just playing around (with Turks/Arabs) and are trying to fool own clueless populations. The US can get rid of Daesh within few weeks.


I never begged anybody. If you have some time and read my replies on this topic you will find out that I was always against the US.


As long there's Mother Russia, there will be the Kurds!


My people (Ezdi Kurds) went to Russia for help and Russians promissed the Ezdi Kurds to stay behind them. There're 150,000 Ezdi Kurds in Russia. We have very close ties with Russia. Only not to lose any face the US has no option but to help innocent people. If the US would not help Ezdi Kurds in Shengal they would loose the Ezdi Kurds and other real Kurds, like in Rojava, FOREVER. Russians would liberate Ezdixan and Rojava and they will help to liberate Northern Kurdistan. But the US still wants to play dirty games. Sooner or later the US has to choose.



And now about the PKK. The PKK has the full non-stop support from the Kurdish nation. And there're 50 million Kurds. PKK is the only legitime froce that serves the people, Kuridstan and the Kurdish race/culture.

You're whether for the people or against the people. Kurdish people want PKK. Power to the PEOPLE!

Angela
18-11-15, 22:11
There are no united actions against Daesh, becasue the US doesn't want real strong actions agaist their Daesh children. They are just playing around (with Turks/Arabs) and are trying to fool own clueless populations. The US can get rid of Daesh within few weeks. I never begged anybody. If you have some time and read my replies on this topic you will find out that I was always against the US. As long there's Mother Russia, there will be the Kurds! My people (Ezdi Kurds) went to Russia for help and Russians promissed the Ezdi Kurds to stay behind them. There're 150,000 Ezdi Kurds in Russia. We have very close ties with Russia. Only not to lose any face the US has no option but to help innocent people. If the US would not help Ezdi Kurds in Shengal they would loose the Ezdi Kurds and other real Kurds, like in Rojava, FOREVER. Russians would liberate Ezdixan and Rojava and they will help to liberate Northern Kurdistan. But the US still wants to play dirty games. Sooner or later the US has to choose. Absolute rubbish. You have no understanding of the drivers of American foreign policy, which in terms of the current administration are an absolute phobia about getting involved in any way in the Near East or North Africa and a determination to withdraw the U.S. from the kind of prominent role it had previously had in world affairs. That's why the French President and Putin are taking the lead. There has been a constant drumbeat by a few to just freaking level the Daesh areas but American public opinion has been totally against it, not least because of the collateral damage that would ensue, much less more American boots on the ground, and in a representative humane democracy, something with which you're obviously not familiar, that matters. If the Obama administration steps up what it's doing it will be when and if public opinion is largely for it, and honestly, I think Obama is so ideologically driven that I doubt he'd do it even then.

Goga
18-11-15, 22:42
Absolute rubbish. You have no understanding of the drivers of American foreign policy, which in terms of the current administration are an absolute phobia about getting involved in any way in the Near East or North Africa and a determination to withdraw the U.S. from the kind of prominent role it had previously had in world affairs. That's why the French President and Putin are taking the lead. There has been a constant drumbeat by a few to just freaking level the Daesh areas but American public opinion has been totally against it, not least because of the collateral damage that would ensue, much less more American boots on the ground, and in a representative humane democracy, something with which you're obviously not familiar, that matters. If the Obama administration steps up what it's doing it will be when and if public opinion is largely for it, and honestly, I think Obama is so ideologically driven that I doubt he'd do it even then.I don't think so. I do still believe that the Americans don't want to alienate the Sunni world at this moment. The US still has lots of investments in the Gulf States, Turkey etc. Also, Turkey is still part of NATO.

But I'm still convince that the Kurds will be the winners after this all is over. If there were 4 or 5 million Kurds I would worry a lot, but there're 50 million Kurds. Nobody can ignore 50 million Kurds. 50 million Kurds will get their rights back.
There re countries in the world with common interests with the Kurds. With a little help from the outside and with 50 million people, the Kurds will achieve anything they want. But first of all Kurds believe in their own strength!

A distinct nation of 50 million people has a right for its own state, education in own language and practise own culture.


Islam will be defeated, Turks & Arabs will be defeated! No doubt about it!



And a Kurdish state will come. Kurds have a bright future. Like I said the Kurdish SUN shines bright and high above Kurdistan.

Goga
18-11-15, 22:49
Russian warplanes disrupt ISIS oil sales channels; destroy 500 terrorist oil trucks in Syria. For Mother Russia!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WgYbiCGYy2c

Angela
18-11-15, 23:09
why then does he then trust the Turks and the Saudis?

the Kurd terrorist actions were long time ago and öcalan has denounced terrorism since
the Kurds were clearly challenged and intimidated by Erdogan before last 1st november elections with some bloody attacks on peacefull demonstrators and it is not clear who was responsable
sometimes it looks like Turkey is playing a double game as strategic western allies but they'd rather support ISIS to attack the Kurds
furthermore Erdogan is using more and more a fascist Muslim language and it clearly pleases a lot of Turks

the Saudis send imams all around the world to preach hatred
a large part the Saudi population is basically fundamentalist Muslim, Wahabist, the worst kind
but the Saudis are waisting so much money and the oil price is to low for them
I think within 5 years their regime will tumble, but will it stop Wahabism?

another thing Obama should consider
if he will not declare war to fundamentalist Islam there might come some kind of alliance between Europe and Russia
I'm sure he is considering it because he now started talking to the Russians himself
he should have acted much earlier

Don't be so sure he's thinking in any way strategically. In my opinion he's an ideology driven empty suit who has never been up to the job. My longer and more nuanced answer is that he is the product of a leftist ideology where America is the problem, not the solution. Without us there, the lions are supposed to lie down with the lambs. How's that working out for everybody?

My views on all of this are on the terrorism in France thread. His campaign promises, the promises on which he was elected, were to get us out of Iraq, out of the Mideast, and to, as it has been disparagingly described, "lead from behind." That's what the American people wanted. They were sick of a seemingly unending war, of boys coming back minus limbs, of flag draped caskets. Well, the general public was sick of it. In my experience the men and women of the armed forces, at least a lot of them, want to go back and finish the job.

The goal was to take all that money spent on the military and foreign endeavors and use it for social services for our under classes. Foreign policy has suffered from benign neglect. When they did turn their attention to it, their incompetence made everything worse.

The mistake that all foreigners make about America, in my opinion, is to see it as some monolithic entity with a unified policy stretching over decades, rather than to see it as it is, a democracy that shifts foreign policy and position based on periodic elections that swing from a more "interventionist" stance to a more "isolationist" stance, and sometimes and not always in perfect coherence, from "right" to "left".

As for Saudi Arabia and Turkey, I would be surprised if even the morons at the State Department "trust" them. Recent polls suggest the Turks are half way to being converted to an ISIS ideology. The fact is that the U.S. needs them for certain things on certain occasions, bases for air power and sea power, intelligence, renditions etc. and just generally to maintain a certain balance of power, and so they need to keep them relatively "close".

As for the Kurds, I think that there was no option but to arm them, ungrateful though they may be, because they have indeed gotten American arms, and senators like John McCain and Lindsay Graham have been calling for it for years as has most of the Republican opposition. My point was that he and his administration, looking at who these people are, their ideology, didn't want to wind up responsible for some autocratic regime that they are held to have armed, as was the case in Afghanistan. Their supporters seem like western style parliamentarians to you? You have to understand that he is totally risk averse. He had to be pushed into a corner to ok the raid on Bin Laden. A lot of people who have left his administration highlight how difficult it is for him to make a decision. He just procrastinates, hoping it will get better.

What galls me the most, however, is the lying that's been going on. He and his spokespeople and Hillary Clinton had called ISIS the "JV", which means a junior sports team, and have repeatedly told the American people that their pathetic little raids on ISIS, (raids that were actually doomed to fail because there was nobody on the ground to give actionable intelligence) and their paltry turn over of equipment to the Kurds were "containing" ISIS. When called on it, they said that's what the intelligence showed. Now those intelligence officials, and ex-army people are saying they were told to doctor the reports. When as honorable and competent a man as Leon Panetta, a life long Democratic operative but also a dedicated public servant and patriot has to come forward and say that it was clear that ISIS was not being "contained", you know how much deception was being practiced.

Anyway, that's my rant. Just my opinion, not that of everyone.

LeBrok
18-11-15, 23:39
And now about the PKK. The PKK has the full non-stop support from the Kurdish nation. And there're 50 million Kurds. PKK is the only legitime froce that serves the people, Kuridstan and the Kurdish race/culture.

You're whether for the people or against the people. Kurdish people want PKK. Power to the PEOPLE! Most Kurds are Sunni Muslims. How does it fit in your plans?

Goga
19-11-15, 00:00
Most Kurds are Sunni Muslims. How does it fit in your plans?
They're not. Kurds in Rojava, PKK, Ezdi Kurds are fighting against Islam. And they are already in process of defeating Political Islam. The Kurds have seen the true face of Islam. And most of us do acknowledge that Islam is enemy of Kurds and Kurdistan.

I'm sure that the Kurds will return to their own roots and return to their pre-Islamic ancient Iranic religions.

Just wait and see. I've got family members among the leadership of PKK. And what I do hear is that there will be a huge patriotic liberation war against the Turkish occupiers within months.


We are fearless people, we fear nothing and nobody! We are children of the Medes. The people are awaken. Kurdish nation of 50 million folks is behind the PKK. Kurds are well prepared and ready for the war!

LeBrok
19-11-15, 00:06
As for the Kurds, I think that there was no option but to arm them, ungrateful though they may be, because they have indeed gotten American arms, and senators like John McCain and Lindsay Graham have been calling for it for years as has most of the Republican opposition. My point was that he and his administration, looking at who these people are, their ideology, didn't want to wind up responsible for some autocratic regime that they are held to have armed, as was the case in Afghanistan. Their supporters seem like western style parliamentarians to you? You have to understand that he is totally risk averse. He had to be pushed into a corner to ok the raid on Bin Laden. A lot of people who have left his administration highlight how difficult it is for him to make a decision. He just procrastinates, hoping it will get better.Are you transposing Goga's deranged views onto all Kurds? Generally speaking, I find Kurds to be more pro Western than anyone in their area.


What galls me the most, however, is the lying that's been going on. He and his spokespeople and Hillary Clinton had called ISIS the "JV", which means a junior sports team, and have repeatedly told the American people that their pathetic little raids on ISIS, (raids that were actually doomed to fail because there was nobody on the ground to give actionable intelligence) and their paltry turn over of equipment to the Kurds were "containing" ISIS. When called on it, they said that's what the intelligence showed. Now those intelligence officials, and ex-army people are saying they were told to doctor the reports. When as honorable and competent a man as Leon Panetta, a life long Democratic operative but also a dedicated public servant and patriot has to come forward and say that it was clear that ISIS was not being "contained", you know how much deception was being practiced.
The goal of raids wasn't meant to conquer ISIS, but protect surrounding communities against ISIS and farther expansion. Since raids started there was almost no progress of Daesh on the ground. They can't do much offensively now. Their heavy equipment is mostly destroyed and the rest hidden and can't be operated. They can't move substantial columns of fighters fast and in groups, or this could be spotted and bombed. They are quite extended and paralyzed at the moment, and unable to continue building their caliphate. This is the reason why they started their terror campaign against the West now. This is how they can do meaningful damage with these few fighters they have left. Their action are desperate.
If Russians or French can put their troops on the ground, ISIS will be gone within few months.

Goga
19-11-15, 00:12
Are you transposing Goga's deranged views onto all Kurds? Generally speaking, I find Kurds to be more pro Western than anyone in their area.
Ho, ho, ho. Wait a minute. I'm PRO West. I'm pro Europe. I'm pro Christian world.

But I'm against the US imperialism and against the US dirty games!

LeBrok
19-11-15, 00:14
They're not. Kurds in Rojava, PKK, Ezdi Kurds are fighting against Islam. And they are already in process of defeating Political Islam. The Kurds have seen the true face of Islam. And most of us do acknowledge that Islam is enemy of Kurds and Kurdistan.

I'm sure that the Kurds will return to their own roots and return to their pre-Islamic ancient Iranic religions.

Just wait and see. I've got family members among the leadership of PKK. And what I do hear is that there will be a huge patriotic liberation war against the Turkish occupiers within months.All of this you mentioned will never happen. Mark my words.



We are fearless people, we fear nothing and nobody! We are children of the Medes. The people are awaken. Kurdish nation of 50 million folks is behind the PKK. Kurds are well prepared and ready for the war! Do you have airplanes and tanks? Do you want to conquer Turkey with Kalashnikov? The last time PKK made war against Turkey hundreds of thousands of Kurds died and nothing was achieved. You should learn from history.
To liberate Kurdistan from Turkey you have to wait till it is in turmoil like Syria or Iraq. Conversely you can wait for peaceful referendum in the future when Turkey is fully democratic and tolerant.

Goga
19-11-15, 00:25
All of this you mentioned will never happen. Mark my words.

Do you have airplanes and tanks? Do you want to conquer Turkey with Kalashnikov? The last time PKK made war against Turkey hundreds of thousands of Kurds died and nothing was achieved. You should learn from history.
To liberate Kurdistan from Turkey you have to wait till it is in turmoil like Syria or Iraq. Conversely you can wait for peaceful referendum in the future when Turkey is fully democratic and tolerant.
Kurds have guts, Kurds have the mountains, Kurds have big cities and Kurds have 50 million people! Kurds fight for humanity, while Turks are fighting for oppression. Freedom and liberty always wins from oppression. We have the right cause, and we are on the right side of history. We don't need advance weapons in the mountains. We can destroy Turkish tanks even with molotov cocktails and all we need are surface to air missiles. Tanks are useless in the Mountains.

Occupying Turkish state together with the whole NATO is waging a full scale war against 2000 PKK warriors for 40 years. And for all those 40 years they can't defeat PKK. PKK is still in Kurdistan and people are still behind the PKK for 100%. Power to the people!

Last time when Turkish army was in Qandil, PKK defeated the Turks completely just few years ago in 2008 I think. And Turkish army was on the run from 2000 PKK warriors. Turkish ground forces are useless and very weak like children compared to the PKK warriors in the mountains and urban guerilla tactics in the cities.

bicicleur
19-11-15, 00:26
Don't be so sure he's thinking in any way strategically. In my opinion he's an ideology driven empty suit who has never been up to the job. My longer and more nuanced answer is that he is the product of a leftist ideology where America is the problem, not the solution. Without us there, the lions are supposed to lie down with the lambs. How's that working out for everybody?

My views on all of this are on the terrorism in France thread. His campaign promises, the promises on which he was elected, were to get us out of Iraq, out of the Mideast, and to, as it has been disparagingly described, "lead from behind." That's what the American people wanted. They were sick of a seemingly unending war, of boys coming back minus limbs, of flag draped caskets. Well, the general public was sick of it. In my experience the men and women of the armed forces, at least a lot of them, want to go back and finish the job.

The goal was to take all that money spent on the military and foreign endeavors and use it for social services for our under classes. Foreign policy has suffered from benign neglect. When they did turn their attention to it, their incompetence made everything worse.

The mistake that all foreigners make about America, in my opinion, is to see it as some monolithic entity with a unified policy stretching over decades, rather than to see it as it is, a democracy that shifts foreign policy and position based on periodic elections that swing from a more "interventionist" stance to a more "isolationist" stance, and sometimes and not always in perfect coherence, from "right" to "left".

As for Saudi Arabia and Turkey, I would be surprised if even the morons at the State Department "trust" them. Recent polls suggest the Turks are half way to being converted to an ISIS ideology. The fact is that the U.S. needs them for certain things on certain occasions, bases for air power and sea power, intelligence, renditions etc. and just generally to maintain a certain balance of power, and so they need to keep them relatively "close".

As for the Kurds, I think that there was no option but to arm them, ungrateful though they may be, because they have indeed gotten American arms, and senators like John McCain and Lindsay Graham have been calling for it for years as has most of the Republican opposition. My point was that he and his administration, looking at who these people are, their ideology, didn't want to wind up responsible for some autocratic regime that they are held to have armed, as was the case in Afghanistan. Their supporters seem like western style parliamentarians to you? You have to understand that he is totally risk averse. He had to be pushed into a corner to ok the raid on Bin Laden. A lot of people who have left his administration highlight how difficult it is for him to make a decision. He just procrastinates, hoping it will get better.

What galls me the most, however, is the lying that's been going on. He and his spokespeople and Hillary Clinton had called ISIS the "JV", which means a junior sports team, and have repeatedly told the American people that their pathetic little raids on ISIS, (raids that were actually doomed to fail because there was nobody on the ground to give actionable intelligence) and their paltry turn over of equipment to the Kurds were "containing" ISIS. When called on it, they said that's what the intelligence showed. Now those intelligence officials, and ex-army people are saying they were told to doctor the reports. When as honorable and competent a man as Leon Panetta, a life long Democratic operative but also a dedicated public servant and patriot has to come forward and say that it was clear that ISIS was not being "contained", you know how much deception was being practiced.

Anyway, that's my rant. Just my opinion, not that of everyone.

America has been the fireman of the world taking all the risks and paying the price for decades.
Furthermore George W Bush has dragged everybody in a war under false pretextes ('weapons of mass destruction') and we don't know for who's interest actually.
I understand many Americans were tired of all this.
And Europe, it is time it will stand up once.
But a lot is changing now and there a serious threats if we let things happen.
I feel the same about Obama as you.
And we tend to trust the Kurds because there is nobody else left to trust anymore.
Maybe that is not a good criteria.
But I would give them the benefit of the doubt and grant them at least their authority and independence on their own territory and the means to properly defend it.
I think they've deserved that. There are worse partners in the area.

LeBrok
19-11-15, 00:43
Ho, ho, ho. Wait a minute. I'm PRO West. I'm pro Europe. I'm pro Christian world.

But I'm against the US imperialism and against the US dirty games!So is Putin and Russia, but hardly we can call them pro West.

Goga
19-11-15, 00:48
So is Putin and Russia, but hardly we can call them pro West.Putin is more pro-West and pro-Europe than the US. The US has been always against the interests of Europe. The US imperialism is occupying Europe. Europe is a colony of America. And the US is blackmailing Europe with Islam. Sooner or later Russia will liberate Europe from NEO-Nazi Islamo-fascism. Like Russia liberated Europe from NAZI-Germany.

Boreas
19-11-15, 01:40
50 million Kurds?

How popular the idea of indepence beetween Kurds, this is not clear issue.

http://www.kurdpress.com/En/NSite/FullStory/News/?Id=3918#Title=%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09%09Ocalan (http://www.kurdpress.com/En/NSite/FullStory/News/?Id=3918#Title=%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09%09Ocalan is not seeking independent state: BDP deputy%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09) is not seeking independent state: BDP deputy%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09

If the scenario in Goga's mind happens, their situation will be like Armenian. Yes They can have independent country, but they will loose many lands, but I guess they still have a oil zone of Turkey.

Angela
19-11-15, 01:52
Putin is more pro-West and pro-Europe than the US. The US has been always against the interests of Europe. The US imperialism is occupying Europe. Europe is a colony of America. And the US is blackmailing Europe with Islam. Sooner or later Russia will liberate Europe from NEO-Nazi Islamo-fascism. Like Russia liberated Europe from NAZI-Germany.

Russia has never been for anybody but Russia. Ask the Germans whether it was better to have lived in West Germany or East Germany. Ask the Poles what it was like to be "liberated" by Russia. Ask the people of Berlin what it was like to be "liberated" by Russians compared to the Americans. The Russians raped everything female from ten to eighty and stole everything that wasn't nailed down to ship back to Russia. They had to build a WALL to keep people from fleeing the benevolent Russian occupation of East Berlin and East Germany in general. We have to build a wall to keep people OUT.

How can you believe these things? What have you been reading? Who have you been talking to?

There's no point in responding to such comments.

If this is the mindset of the Kurds no wonder Obama has been giving them only half hearted support. Sounds like old school Communist/Maoist fellow traveler rhetoric

Goga
19-11-15, 01:56
50 million Kurds?

How popular the idea of indepence beetween Kurds, this is not clear issue.

http://www.kurdpress.com/En/NSite/FullStory/News/?Id=3918#Title=%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09%09Ocalan is not seeking independent state: BDP deputy%0A%09%09%09%09%09%09%09

If the scenario in Goga's mind happens, their situation will be like Armenian. Yes They can have independent country, but they will loose many lands, but I guess they still have a oil zone of Turkey.
Yes, 50 million Kurds. Maybe even more.


APO was against a Kurdish state, because he was against a total war. He tried to achieve something for the Kurds through democracy. He tried to save a Turkish state. With dialogue Kurds could only gain a some kind of autonomy. But there will be a total war. Turks don't understand a different language. My people are already well prepard for a great war. And Kurds are not going to fight a great patriotic liberation war for some kind of autonomy, but for an independent Kurdish state, Great Kurdistan.

When Armenians or Greeks were at war with Turks, there was just a very few Armenians, but now there're 50 million Kurds. If there were just 2 million Kurds, Kurds could loose. 100 years ago there were in total just 4 million Kurds. But today there're 50 million Kurds. How does somebody want to defeat so much people, especially 50 million Kurds? That's impossible! This is something different. A different level. We will never give up any inch of Kurdish soil. All historic Kurdish lands and there where Kurds are a majority will be part of Great Kurdistan, very inch of it.


Kurds would accept autonomy through democracy and dialog. But we will never accept any autonomy after a war. WAR = more sacrifices, more Kurds killed = independent Kurdish state, Kurdistan or what Kurds call Kurdewarî.

Goga
19-11-15, 02:04
Just wait and see. Kurdish SUN shines high and bright above Kurdewarî, but only in couple of month, within a year the Kurdish SUN will shine even higher and brighter above Kurdewarî and especially Amed, the true capital of Great Kurdistan.

ElHorsto
19-11-15, 02:08
Russia has never been for anybody but Russia. Ask the Germans whether it was better to have lived in West Germany or East Germany. Ask the Poles what it was like to be "liberated" by Russia. Ask the people of Berlin what it was like to be "liberated" by Russians compared to the Americans. The Russians raped everything female from ten to eighty and stole everything that wasn't nailed down to ship back to Russia. They had to build a WALL to keep people from fleeing the benevolent Russian occupation of East Berlin and East Germany in general. We have to build a wall to keep people OUT.

How can you believe these things? What have you been reading? Who have you been talking to?

There's no point in responding to such comments.

If this is the mindset of the Kurds no wonder Obama has been giving them only half hearted support. Sounds like old school Communist/Maoist fellow traveler rhetoric

In europe there is a popular cliché about uneducated americans who still believe that Russians are communists and Germans are nazis. I'm surprised that you fit in half way, because actually you know better.

Angela
19-11-15, 03:25
In europe there is a popular cliché about uneducated americans who still believe that Russians are communists and Germans are nazis. I'm surprised that you fit in half way, because actually you know better.

Perhaps you should read my post again. I believe you will see that it was Goga who identified Germany and Europe in general as Neo-Nazi. I neither said nor implied any such thing.

He furthermore had waxed poetic about the wonderful Russian liberation of Europe after World War II. I corrected his obviously uninformed statements with a little historical background.

I don't know what I'd call the leaders of Russia today. A toxic oligarchy composed of the Russian Mafia and ex KGB officers who are plundering their country and want to do the same to others? That's a mouthful. I'll have to think of something better.

What I do know is that anybody who thinks that ex KGB officer Putin has become a social democrat who wants to be a benevolent friend to Europe has perhaps been smoking something other than tobacco.

What I also know is that leftist Europeans in general are dangerously naive, in my opinion. Or perhaps they're willfully stupid. I can't make up my mind.They still haven't learned the lessons of history, that's for sure. The left was sold a bill of goods. I know it's tough to swallow but it's true. Nor did the fascists have the answer. Millions upon millions dead because of two failed ideologies. Even more millions lost in World War I for virtually NOTHING.

America saved Europe twice in one century from their blood letting binges, three times if you count Kosovo. Who are Europeans to condescend to America or to hold themselves up as some sort of models?

As for your subtle insult, I won't respond in kind. I'll just say that I'd put my education and my intellect up against anyone you care to name. I'd also just mention that people tend to resort to personal insult when they have no substantive argument.

Alan
19-11-15, 03:27
If this is the mindset of the Kurds no wonder Obama has been giving them only half hearted support. Sounds like old school Communist/Maoist fellow traveler rhetoric
Goga represents only his own opinion.... I was expecting more user knowledge from you at this point. Obama only gives half hearted support to Kurds because of NATO ally Turkey nothing more. Russia today is not UDDSR but I agree that literally every part of Europe which was dominated rather by Russia is far behind.

But todays Russia is not Communist anymore. Only ideological idiots with no brain and no knowledge whatsoever still believe Communism does work if even the former definition of Communism (Russia) has turned it's back towards this ridiculous type of system.

In fact todays Russia is ideologically and by system closer to Europe and even the US than Communist China or North Korea. Also Russia is supportive towards Kurds that must be said but honestly I don't see them really do more for us than the EU or US.

You can't hate Putin for simply doing what he thinks is the best for his country.

Boreas
19-11-15, 03:30
Yes, 50 million Kurds. Maybe even more.

Please, give some reliable sources

https://kurdishissue.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/kurds-population.png


Kurdish population increase can be compare muslim population increase in the West, so you are saying Turks should have done protest against Kurdish population increase something like in West Europeans protests against Muslim.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/images/news/201210/n_33275_1.jpghttp://www.kurdishinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/Map-of-Turkey-Areas-with-Kurdish-population.jpg





APO was against a Kurdish state, because he was against a total war. He tried to achieve something for the Kurds through democracy. He tried to save a Turkish state. With dialogue Kurds could only gain a some kind of autonomy. But there will be a total war. Turks don't understand a different language. My people are already well prepard for a great war. And Kurds are not going to fight a great patriotic liberation war for some kind of autonomy, but for an independent Kurdish state, Great Kurdistan.


so the idea of the founder of PKK is not important and you think all kurds(50 million) unite on your view.



When Armenians or Greeks were at war with Turks, there was just a very few Armenians, but now there're 50 million Kurds. If there were just 2 million Kurds, Kurds could loose. 100 years ago there were in total just 4 million Kurds. But today there're 50 million Kurds. How does somebody want to defeat so much people, especially 50 million Kurds? That's impossible! This is something different. A different level. We will never give up any inch of Kurdish soil. All historic Kurdish lands and there where Kurds are a majority will be part of Great Kurdistan, very inch of it.


How many people can able to took their great lands; Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Germans, Turks? Answer is no.

Alan
19-11-15, 03:33
America has been the fireman of the world taking all the risks and paying the price for decades.
Furthermore George W Bush has dragged everybody in a war under false pretextes ('weapons of mass destruction') and we don't know for who's interest actually.


I don't know if I had said this hear already before, but it wasn't false pretextes. With what did Saddam Gas the Kurds if he didn't have weapons of mass destruction? I know from Kurds who live and lived on the border region and tell me before the Iraq War started the people saw convoys of trucks leaving Iraq towards Syria.

Now Saddam and Assad are both belong to the Arab nationalistic Baath party. And where do you think Assad got most of his chemical weapons from? Saddam had them, and it is not so hard to hide or get rid of them if you have friendly neighbors such as Syria, Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

@Boreas

I honestly don't feel the lust now to discuss with you about these issues. But Let me just say the Kurdish pop in general is around 40 mio.

Goga
19-11-15, 04:00
double post

Angela
19-11-15, 04:08
America has been the fireman of the world taking all the risks and paying the price for decades.
Furthermore George W Bush has dragged everybody in a war under false pretextes ('weapons of mass destruction') and we don't know for who's interest actually.
I understand many Americans were tired of all this.
And Europe, it is time it will stand up once.
But a lot is changing now and there a serious threats if we let things happen.
I feel the same about Obama as you.
And we tend to trust the Kurds because there is nobody else left to trust anymore.
Maybe that is not a good criteria.
But I would give them the benefit of the doubt and grant them at least their authority and independence on their own territory and the means to properly defend it.
I think they've deserved that. There are worse partners in the area.

I don't disagree with most of what you say. The Kurds do deserve their own country. I'm just relaying some of the reasons for the reported hesitation of the Obama administration toward arming the Kurds. The Turks are of course part of the consideration, but so, according to news reports, is the factionalism among the Kurds and the ideology of some of the Kurdish groups. Americans have had too much of arming "freedom fighters" only to have them turn into autocrats. Maybe the administration is blowing it out of proportion and it's just an excuse for inaction on their part . I sincerely hope that's the case. The Republican candidates to a man are for arming them immediately. As you say, there aren't many choices.

As for George W Bush we'll have to agree to disagree. Is he my favorite president? No. Did he make mistakes? Yes. In retrospect, should we have gone into Iraq? No, we shouldn't. However, I don't for a minute believe there was some nefarious purpose behind it. He believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because every intelligence service in the world believed it. People have very short memories.

We also gained nothing from it, nothing; we just lost...treasure, but most of all, blood, the blood of patriotic young men and women, and the blighted lives of the wounded. The vast majority of Americans also lost any appetite for any nation building in the Middle East or fighting other people's battles. That's a big part of why Obama got elected. It's also why his inaction with regards to ISIS and the general deterioration in the Middle East and North Africa was perfectly fine with most Americans. Whether the barbarity of what has been going on in the Near East and now in France and fear that we'll get hit again will change their minds remains to be seen.

Goga
19-11-15, 04:21
Please, give some reliable sources

https://kurdishissue.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/kurds-population.png



so the idea of the founder of PKK is not important and you think all kurds(50 million) unite on your view.



How many people can able to took their great lands; Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Germans, Turks? Answer is no.
Because people are afraid of Kurdish nationalism they don’t mention the real numbers of Kurdish population. They said that the population of Kurds in Rojava was only 1 million, while the real Kurdish population in Rojava is at least 3-4 million. Same can be said about all other parts of Kurdistan. It's much more than people say.

3 - 4 million in Rojava, Kurmanji Kurds
7 - 8 million in Southern Kurdistan, Sorani, Kurmanji and other ethnic Kurdish minorities.
8 - 10 million in Eastern Kurdistan
25 - 30 million in Northern Kurdistan, Kurmanji Kurds

6 - 8 million Feyli Kurds
4 - 5 million Zaza Kurds
1 million Ezdi Kurds

3 - 5 million Kurds in diaspora


Let's take the lowest estimations. It's at least 57 million ethnic Kurds. Too much to handle, even for a superpower like the US!

3 + 7 + 8 + 25 + 6 + 4 + 1 + 3 = 57 million



As long APO is at the enemies hands, we don't care about APO's current opinion. There're at least 50 million Kurds, so we have many other genius (high IQ) people among us within our pan-Kurdish organisation who can lead us.


Just let wait and see. This will happen very soon. All I know that Kurds will fight for every inch of Kurdistan. And that we have got enough Kurds to die for every inch of Kurdistan.

Armenians, Greeks, Germans, Turks lost their war. But Kurds are not going to lose any war. We will never lose this very important patriotic independent war against the Turks. Do always remember that the winners decide the boundaries and redraw the map. And I can guarantee you that the Kurds will be the undisputed winners in their war against the Turks. There is no way we are going to fail. This is impossible. Sure many will die, but we are going to defeat the Turks, it is just as simple as that and just a matter of time...

Alan
19-11-15, 05:30
~3 mio in Syrian Kurdistan and Syrian diaspora
~6 mio Iraqi Kurdistan
~18 mio in Turkeys Kurdistan and Turkish cities
~10 mio in Iranian Kurdistan and large Iranian cities.
~4 mio in other Diaspora countries.

Goga
19-11-15, 06:15
Maybe 6 million Kurds in Southern Kurdistan only, but what about Baghdad? In Baghdad are at least 2 - 3 million Feyli (Shia) Kurds. But what about other non-Feyli Kurds who live Baghdad?

Like I said, South Kurdistan ( + Iraq) 7 - 8 million Kurds (Sorani, Kakai, Badini etc.) + 700.000-800.000 Ezdi Kurds (Shengal, Dohuk, Shekhan, Baghdad etc.) + more than 3 million Feyli Kurds (live mostly in Baghdad). so there're maybe even more than 10 million ethnic Kurds only in the whole Iraq.


There're also much more Kurds in Northern Kurdistan. In few decades if Turkey would exist there would be more Kurds than Turks in Turkey. In whole Turkey live 78 million people. In 20-30 years time there would be at last 40 milion Kurds (+Zaza) only in Turkey.
Today, at least 25-30% are Kurmanji Kurds and 7% Zaza Kurds in Turkey.

10 million Iraq (included Ezdi, Feyli from Baghdad, Kakai)
10 - 11 million Iran (included Feyli)
3 - 4 million Syria (included Ezdi etc.)
25 - 30 million Turkey (included Zaza)
4 million diaspora (included Ezdi, Zaza etc.)

Sile
19-11-15, 07:27
wow, I cannot believe this forum, what I see......so many Americans are racists against Kurds:shocked::unbelievable:

Boreas
19-11-15, 12:17
Yazidi and Zaza nationalism are also growing.

YEZIDI NA KURDINA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3wDEdRX_dTIB4XXyjf8NQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1NhSu6FeVQ

and now what every pro-kurdish says, Zaza language is consider as in different language group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_nationalism

Alan
19-11-15, 13:19
Maybe 6 million Kurds in Southern Kurdistan only, but what about Baghdad? In Baghdad are at least 2 - 3 million Feyli (Shia) Kurds. But what about other non-Feyli Kurds who live Baghdad?



In no way are there 2-3 mio Kurds in Baghdad. Ask Munir, it's around the hundred thousands. In KRG are currently 5-5.5 mio Kurds, the rest are situated outside, maybe the numbers are even 6.5 mio in total.

Alan
19-11-15, 13:23
Yazidi and Zaza nationalism are also growing.

YEZIDI NA KURDINA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3wDEdRX_dTIB4XXyjf8NQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1NhSu6FeVQ

and now what every pro-kurdish says, Zaza language is consider as in different language group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_nationalism

Yep in your racist divide and conquer mindset. Just once again you display the clear characteristics of an racist Turkish individual I have come across in my lifetime.

Zaza Nationalism is only practized by a very small unorginzed group in Europe. And oh dear have you no idea once again whatsoever. A ethnicity is not only defined by the language, yet Zazaki is by some linguists considered as Kurdish by other as a sibling to Kurdish. Ethnically no one even dared to consider them as something different.

Take in mind some of the biggest Kurdish nationalists and uprisings have started from them. Most of them don't even call themselves Zaza and consider that as an insult, but I don't expect a half informed individual like you are to know this.

Demirtas is a Dimli aka "Zaza", Baydemir is too, Seyit Rize was one and so was Sheyh Said too.

And those videos of Yazidi Nationalists are fake made by desperate Iraqis. I have yet to come across a real Yezidi thinking that way. I have seen Yezidis saying Kurds are Yezidis.

Laz Nationalism is also rising isn't it? Just using your "logic"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhviDNQWc-8


By the way , just a question when have you done your DNA test?

ElHorsto
19-11-15, 13:57
Perhaps you should read my post again. I believe you will see that it was Goga who identified Germany and Europe in general as Neo-Nazi. I neither said nor implied any such thing.

He furthermore had waxed poetic about the wonderful Russian liberation of Europe after World War II. I corrected his obviously uninformed statements with a little historical background.

I don't know what I'd call the leaders of Russia today. A toxic oligarchy composed of the Russian Mafia and ex KGB officers who are plundering their country and want to do the same to others? That's a mouthful. I'll have to think of something better.

What I do know is that anybody who thinks that ex KGB officer Putin has become a social democrat who wants to be a benevolent friend to Europe has perhaps been smoking something other than tobacco.

What I also know is that leftist Europeans in general are dangerously naive, in my opinion. Or perhaps they're willfully stupid. I can't make up my mind.They still haven't learned the lessons of history, that's for sure. The left was sold a bill of goods. I know it's tough to swallow but it's true. Nor did the fascists have the answer. Millions upon millions dead because of two failed ideologies. Even more millions lost in World War I for virtually NOTHING.

America saved Europe twice in one century from their blood letting binges, three times if you count Kosovo. Who are Europeans to condescend to America or to hold themselves up as some sort of models?

As for your subtle insult, I won't respond in kind. I'll just say that I'd put my education and my intellect up against anyone you care to name. I'd also just mention that people tend to resort to personal insult when they have no substantive argument.

I tried not to insult you. I really thought you know better.

I think you have an idealized view of your county's history. This is no insult. Most people have an idealized view of their own country's history.

We were successfully cooperating with Russia for some time already and Russia is our neighbor. Suddenly, we are being told that Russia is evil and Putin is a boogeyman (don't start with Ukraine, because this was an evil intrigue for this purpose, where Putin was surprised and forced to act, and where victims and perpetrators were swapped). Unfortunately, also not all european elites are pro-European. I think that enough people here already know this and they represent a significant obstacle for them.

Isolationism is not left wing but right-wing, and as an ideology originates in USA. Those conservatives who want war usually are acting because they believe it is in their own interest, not because of interventionism which is an idealistic stance (although many use idealistic excuses). Typical idealistic interventionism is left-wing, like Clinton, Blair, Power, Sanders, Soros, Glucksman, Henrí-Levy, many european Green Parties and most Trotzkyists. The Soviet Union itself was interventionist until the late 1940s. I personally prefer the conservative isolationists, in case you thought I'm left-wing.

There are also imperialists among left-wingers, who pretend to be idealists. There are anti-imperialists among the conservatives (libertarians, paleo-conservatives, ...). Pacifism is usually more prevalent among left-wingers. Some details are certainly debatable, yet I think I summed it up correctly overall.

Regarding being nazi, I don't know, if someone supports neo-nazis and islamists abroad, is he a neo-nazi then? I think it depends on the perspective. I would say no, because actual nazi-ideology is not necessarily shared. Hitler also was supported by many who merely sought their own benefit, not because they shared nazi-ideology. But I understand why Goga thinks this way. But I also think that he is exaggerating.

I don't know about anyone who claimed that Putin is a social democrat. He is a typical conservative, communists are his biggest opponents and russian nazis the loudest. He has more friends among US Republicans rather than Democrats.

Damn, I didn't want to write that much anymore.

DuPidh
19-11-15, 14:01
wow, I cannot believe this forum, what I see......so many Americans are racists against Kurds:shocked::unbelievable:


Its not that Americans are racists against Kurds. For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds. The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind. They say things like Kurds are brothers with Iranians, or we will smash Turkey to obliteration, etc.. Now you tell me , who will take you seriously if you say such things?

Boreas
19-11-15, 15:55
Yep in your racist divide and conquer mindset. Just once again you display the clear characteristics of an racist Turkish individual I have come across in my lifetime.

Turkish divide and conquer policy or Kurdish fascistic nationalism :confused2:



Zaza Nationalism is only practized by a very small unorginzed group in Europe.


I have already know it my friend and group is mostly well educated people. You doesn't need to be act like someone touch your wound :rolleyes2:



By the way , just a question when have you done your DNA test?

Just a answer :grin:, 2014 February now I am wait my mtFull Sequence & R1a - Z280 SNP Pack results

Edit: Thanks to thanks my mtDNA results has already come, I just saw when I checked my account for your question :good_job:

Now I am not just J1b - I am J1b1b1

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 16:03
I do not know why Obama is throwing his support to the arabic SUNNI community, when nearly all terrorists attacks in the last decade are behind done by these types.

Time for Obama to go...........his lack of support for his allies leaves a lot to be desired.
I wonder how he will cope if France commence article #5 of Nato
What he should support according to you? Iran? The terrorist attacks are done by the extremists, not by the entire Sunni religion.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 16:09
Yeah, the real Kurds. By the real Kurds I mean PKK and Kurds in Rojava, Western Kurdistan.

The real Kurds are those who fight against the neo-Nazi fascist Islam.


And there was a genocide against the Ezdi folks, but it would be more catastrophical without the PKK. Without PKK there would be a total extermination of the Ezdi Kurds. Instead of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands would be killed. And Kurds from Rojava and PKK saved their racial Ezdi Kurdish brothers in Shengal, Ezdixan. There was a betrayal by Kurds from South Kurdistan, those who support Islamo-fascist Barzani. Without the betrayal of Islamist Barzani, there would be no genocide at all. Barzani, tribal leader in South Kurdistan, is the weakest link here.


The same PKK and the real Kurds who are fighting against neo-Nazi fascist Islam will defeat Turkish state and will liberate Northern Kurdistan. Without Northern Kurdistan, Kurdistan is not free. The capital of the whole Great Kurdistan is Amed, and Amed is in Northern Kurdistan.

PKK is well preparedand ready for the patriotic liberation war. I think we will witness a total waragainst the Turkish occupiers just in few months! We're 100% convincedthat we will win this war. And people are not afraid, and especial not afraid of Turks.


Power to the PEOPLE!
I don't think you have the right to say who is a real Kurd and who is not.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 16:20
why then does he then trust the Turks and the Saudis?

the Kurd terrorist actions were long time ago and öcalan has denounced terrorism since
the Kurds were clearly challenged and intimidated by Erdogan before last 1st november elections with some bloody attacks on peacefull demonstrators and it is not clear who was responsable
sometimes it looks like Turkey is playing a double game as strategic western allies but they'd rather support ISIS to attack the Kurds
furthermore Erdogan is using more and more a fascist Muslim language and it clearly pleases a lot of Turks

the Saudis send imams all around the world to preach hatred
a large part the Saudi population is basically fundamentalist Muslim, Wahabist, the worst kind
but the Saudis are waisting so much money and the oil price is to low for them
I think within 5 years their regime will tumble, but will it stop Wahabism?

another thing Obama should consider
if he will not declare war to fundamentalist Islam there might come some kind of alliance between Europe and Russia
I'm sure he is considering it because he now started talking to the Russians himself
he should have acted much earlier
[emoji23] . What do you mean by Europe? There is no an Europe. Britain is the closest ally of USA. Germany it's never gonna be to the Russian side and indeed they don't have even an army. Italy said, they are not gonna bomb the ISIS. So, we have only France. France it's economically an weak country. They can't stand a war in long terms. We should keep going till Assad go down and bring him to prison like we did to Milosevic. Afterward we built a new democratic Syria. If there would be a need, we send there military troops onto the terrain. Assad should go, and including the military bases of Russia.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 16:23
Erdogan, Turks in general are puppets of America. Turks are doing everything American are telling them.

Kurds are fighting not only against the Turks but against America. At this moment the US is enemy of Kurds.


Because of Russia (Putin) Kurds are save. Without Mother Russia, Kurds would be in bigger trouble now.
Indeed USA it's helping a lot the peshmergas. Russia it's bombing only the FSA. They are not bombing ISIS. It's pretty clear what is their goal.

Erdogan is not a puppet. I think he is anti USA.

bicicleur
19-11-15, 17:05
[emoji23] . What do you mean by Europe? There is no an Europe. Britain is the closest ally of USA. Germany it's never gonna be to the Russian side and indeed they don't have even an army. Italy said, they are not gonna bomb the ISIS. So, we have only France. France it's economically an weak country. They can't stand a war in long terms. We should keep going till Assad go down and bring him to prison like we did to Milosevic. Afterward we built a new democratic Syria. If there would be a need, we send there military troops onto the terrain. Assad should go, and including the military bases of Russia.

no one believes in a stable democratic Syria any more
like no one believes in Arabic Spring any more
to many stupid, backward and intolerant people live in the area

Angela
19-11-15, 17:17
I tried not to insult you. I really thought you know better.

I think you have an idealized view of your county's history. This is no insult. Most people have an idealized view of their own country's history.

We were successfully cooperating with Russia for some time already and Russia is our neighbor. Suddenly, we are being told that Russia is evil and Putin is a boogeyman (don't start with Ukraine, because this was an evil intrigue for this purpose, where Putin was surprised and forced to act, and where victims and perpetrators were swapped). Unfortunately, also not all european elites are pro-European. I think that enough people here already know this and they represent a significant obstacle for them.

Isolationism is not left wing but right-wing, and as an ideology originates in USA. Those conservatives who want war usually are acting because they believe it is in their own interest, not because of interventionism which is an idealistic stance (although many use idealistic excuses). Typical idealistic interventionism is left-wing, like Clinton, Blair, Power, Sanders, Soros, Glucksman, Henrí-Levy, many european Green Parties and most Trotzkyists. The Soviet Union itself was interventionist until the late 1940s. I personally prefer the conservative isolationists, in case you thought I'm left-wing.

There are also imperialists among left-wingers, who pretend to be idealists. There are anti-imperialists among the conservatives (libertarians, paleo-conservatives, ...). Pacifism is usually more prevalent among left-wingers. Some details are certainly debatable, yet I think I summed it up correctly overall.

Regarding being nazi, I don't know, if someone supports neo-nazis and islamists abroad, is he a neo-nazi then? I think it depends on the perspective. I would say no, because actual nazi-ideology is not necessarily shared. Hitler also was supported by many who merely sought their own benefit, not because they shared nazi-ideology. But I understand why Goga thinks this way. But I also think that he is exaggerating.

I don't know about anyone who claimed that Putin is a social democrat. He is a typical conservative, communists are his biggest opponents and russian nazis the loudest. He has more friends among US Republicans rather than Democrats.

Damn, I didn't want to write that much anymore.

I'm an American by naturalization, not by birth or childhood rearing. Plus, we arrived here recently enough that my university and post university professors presented virtually everything through the typical left wing, anti-American lens. My opinions changed as the result of extensive reading and, I believe, my own rather hard-headed, logic based way of approaching data and the world in general.

I actually think that like a lot of recent European immigrants I appreciate America more because I have a basis for comparison.

My particular academic interest was history both European and American, an interest I have pursued for years, and I also have personal and family history in Europe upon which to draw. All of that informs my opinion that anyone who looks at Russian actions vis a vis Europe whether in the past or in the present and who still thinks that they are cooperating with a benign partner and good neighbor is dangerously naive and should perhaps do some more reading in European history.

I'm afraid that likewise, from my perspective, your analysis of American political thought is rather superficial and obviously owes something to the kind of conspiracy based analyses which in Europe are thought to be a substitute for rational, fact based analysis.

I am telling you as someone who has lived here for years and someone who has studied American history in detail that America has been isolationist since it's inception. See George Washington's Farewell Address.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington's_Farewell_Address

The whole thing is a marvel and a testament as to why he is considered America's greatest president. I would recommend that everyone read it, but if you don't have the time, you can skip to the section about foreign relations.

In the twentieth century the mindset was still that America should hold itself aloof from all the ideological madness that periodically shakes Europe. It was summed up in the phrase, " The business of America is business."

The American people, even though they knew what was going on in Europe, didn't want to get into either World War I or II. They came in late and only after attacks on American citizens or American territory. What Roosevelt wanted is not what the American public wanted.

You are correct that usually the interventionists of the 20th century have been Democrats. However, the first Roosevelt president, Teddy Roosevelt, who wanted to project American power not only in Central America but elsewhere, was a Republican. (He was also a progressive.) So, it's much more complicated that Europeans imagine.

At any rate, whatever the situation in the past, especially since 9/11 it has been the Republicans who have been more interventionist, but it's not because they necessarily want to be the world's policeman. It's because they'd rather fight the enemy "over there than over here." It was the left who turned against that interventionism first, but a majority of Americans, both left and right, turned against it. If that weren't the case, Barack Obama would never have been elected. To see flag draped caskets over and over, young men missing limbs trapped in wheel chairs, billions sinking into some hole in the desert or lining the pockets of some Afghani warlord, and men whom we spent our blood and treasure training failing to man up and defend their own country or still pursuing their asinine internecine squabbles rather than being concerned with the welfare of all their people was just too much. As I said, whether public opinion will now change only time will tell.

I think it's pretty clear that we will have to agree to disagree about these matters, so I'll leave it at that.

LeBrok
19-11-15, 17:50
Indeed USA it's helping a lot the peshmergas. Russia it's bombing only the FSA. They are not bombing ISIS. It's pretty clear what is their goal.

Erdogan is not a puppet. I think he is anti USA.They will attack now after they lost their plane to IS terrorism.

Sile
19-11-15, 19:36
no one believes in a stable democratic Syria any more
like no one believes in Arabic Spring any more
to many stupid, backward and intolerant people live in the area

You can say that the Arabic spring was just a way of removing the remaining non-arabic people from certain nations. it's just that assad ruined it for the arabic as he would not conform.

The west should be protecting the indigenous non-arabic people from all these middle-east and north african countries. protecting does not mean using the last resort and accepting them as migrants, protecting is to prevent arabic rule over the indigenous people so that they might survive.
The yazidi slaughter is a clear example of arabic GENOCIDE on the indigenous non-arabic people.

Sile
19-11-15, 19:42
What he should support according to you? Iran? The terrorist attacks are done by the extremists, not by the entire Sunni religion.

the attacks are by sunni on shia and other religions, they happen against shia in syria, irak, saudia arabia, yemen, lebanon ............how many more countries do you want me to mention.

yes, USA should support anyone who can keep the intolerant sunni leaders and their supporters from killing off every other religion in the world............listen to the speeches of the sunni mufta's .

you have no idea on what is happening

Sile
19-11-15, 19:46
Its not that Americans are racists against Kurds. For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds. The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind. They say things like Kurds are brothers with Iranians, or we will smash Turkey to obliteration, etc.. Now you tell me , who will take you seriously if you say such things?

If your opinion is solely based on comments made on this forum, then you learn nothing

You need to seek your knowledge outside and ask the question on why the Americans will, in the end "backstab" the kurds and return to supporting the saudi's and the turks which hate the USA. its about time that the USA puts a halt on arabic agression

Sile
19-11-15, 19:48
Yazidi and Zaza nationalism are also growing.

YEZIDI NA KURDINA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD3wDEdRX_dTIB4XXyjf8NQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1NhSu6FeVQ

and now what every pro-kurdish says, Zaza language is consider as in different language group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaza_nationalism

I like your style......not
incorporating yazidi into a zaza conversation where yazidi are no where near the ancient zaza lands

DuPidh
19-11-15, 20:57
If your opinion is solely based on comments made on this forum, then you learn nothing

You need to seek your knowledge outside and ask the question on why the Americans will, in the end "backstab" the kurds and return to supporting the saudi's and the turks which hate the USA. its about time that the USA puts a halt on arabic agression

USA is a multinational country and democratic. So you have to expect the diversity of opinions. America when it comes to ideas is very diverse. It could be Americans who hate Kurds but the truth is most Americans never heard the word Kurd.
Americans I believe are not too happy giving Iran an ally I guess, even though I also think that Kurds should have their own state in IRAQ.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 21:51
Ho, ho, ho. Wait a minute. I'm PRO West. I'm pro Europe. I'm pro Christian world.

But I'm against the US imperialism and against the US dirty games!
You can't be pro Europe, and at the same time you are pro mother Russia. And Europe it's not an unified entity

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 21:53
Kurds have guts, Kurds have the mountains, Kurds have big cities and Kurds have 50 million people! Kurds fight for humanity, while Turks are fighting for oppression. Freedom and liberty always wins from oppression. We have the right cause, and we are on the right side of history. We don't need advance weapons in the mountains. We can destroy Turkish tanks even with molotov cocktails and all we need are surface to air missiles. Tanks are useless in the Mountains.

Occupying Turkish state together with the whole NATO is waging a full scale war against 2000 PKK warriors for 40 years. And for all those 40 years they can't defeat PKK. PKK is still in Kurdistan and people are still behind the PKK for 100%. Power to the people!

Last time when Turkish army was in Qandil, PKK defeated the Turks completely just few years ago in 2008 I think. And Turkish army was on the run from 2000 PKK warriors. Turkish ground forces are useless and very weak like children compared to the PKK warriors in the mountains and urban guerilla tactics in the cities.
So what are you waiting for? Go on with you plan

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 21:55
America has been the fireman of the world taking all the risks and paying the price for decades.
Furthermore George W Bush has dragged everybody in a war under false pretextes ('weapons of mass destruction') and we don't know for who's interest actually.
I understand many Americans were tired of all this.
And Europe, it is time it will stand up once.
But a lot is changing now and there a serious threats if we let things happen.
I feel the same about Obama as you.
And we tend to trust the Kurds because there is nobody else left to trust anymore.
Maybe that is not a good criteria.
But I would give them the benefit of the doubt and grant them at least their authority and independence on their own territory and the means to properly defend it.
I think they've deserved that. There are worse partners in the area.
But the Kurds are divided. There are pro USA, and pro Russia Kurds.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 22:00
Putin is more pro-West and pro-Europe than the US. The US has been always against the interests of Europe. The US imperialism is occupying Europe. Europe is a colony of America. And the US is blackmailing Europe with Islam. Sooner or later Russia will liberate Europe from NEO-Nazi Islamo-fascism. Like Russia liberated Europe from NAZI-Germany.
In what manner Putin it's gonna liberate Europe!! Like he is doing with the terrorist regime of Assad. He will install terrorist and anti democratic regimes akin to the Assad's regime. We want the democracy, not the anti human regimes, and we will fight till the end for our freedom. Their are both terrorists. (Putin and Assad)
[emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562] [emoji562]

Yetos
19-11-15, 22:01
You can say that the Arabic spring was just a way of removing the remaining non-arabic people from certain nations. it's just that assad ruined it for the arabic as he would not conform.

The west should be protecting the indigenous non-arabic people from all these middle-east and north african countries. protecting does not mean using the last resort and accepting them as migrants, protecting is to prevent arabic rule over the indigenous people so that they might survive.
The yazidi slaughter is a clear example of arabic GENOCIDE on the indigenous non-arabic people.


I tottaly,

someone must report that and ask UN to act to this direction

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 22:04
Russia has never been for anybody but Russia. Ask the Germans whether it was better to have lived in West Germany or East Germany. Ask the Poles what it was like to be "liberated" by Russia. Ask the people of Berlin what it was like to be "liberated" by Russians compared to the Americans. The Russians raped everything female from ten to eighty and stole everything that wasn't nailed down to ship back to Russia. They had to build a WALL to keep people from fleeing the benevolent Russian occupation of East Berlin and East Germany in general. We have to build a wall to keep people OUT.

How can you believe these things? What have you been reading? Who have you been talking to?

There's no point in responding to such comments.

If this is the mindset of the Kurds no wonder Obama has been giving them only half hearted support. Sounds like old school Communist/Maoist fellow traveler rhetoric
Indeed, even the Russians are suffering under the regime of Putin. Just look at their economy

Alan
19-11-15, 22:06
Its not that Americans are racists against Kurds. For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds. The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind. They say things like Kurds are brothers with Iranians, or we will smash Turkey to obliteration, etc.. Now you tell me , who will take you seriously if you say such things?

I quite don't understand why you are still posting under false flag. From all your previous posts so far, and strangely always when it is in connection to Turkish affairs, it is obvious that you have a Pro Turkish government stands.

So you don't need to hide your real identity.



For Americans Kurds are Middle Eastern. If they don't like middle eastern then they don't like Kurds.

Wrong by now almost all Americans know who Kurds are and I have yet to come across an American who is anti Kurdish. And many other people, especially American and Western fighters who have joined Kurdish forces can confirm, how friendly the people are towards them.


"The Kurds love Israel. They love Israel and they love the Jewish people. But among the ranks of the YPG there's also local Arabs and other people that might not be such big fans of Israel," she said.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/07/13/mideast-crisis-islamic-state-rosenberg-idINKCN0PN0SF20150713


The problem with this forum is that the few Kurd participants reflect so much ignorance so even if you are pro Kurd will change your mind.

I must be one of those few Kurds here, look at who calls me ignorant. Let us place bets who the people think is more ignorant, you or me.

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 22:09
In europe there is a popular cliché about uneducated americans who still believe that Russians are communists and Germans are nazis. I'm surprised that you fit in half way, because actually you know better.
Actually, no one mentioned the Germans. Indeed there is not a communist economy still in Russia, but there is still a country or a state which is against the western values. Putin is not Stalin, but he is likewise anti Western.

Alan
19-11-15, 22:11
Turkish divide and conquer policy or Kurdish fascistic nationalism :confused2:

Absolutely divide and conquer but must hurt you that it doesn't work. I have known allot of Turkish racists and I have been keeping track on your arguments and they are identical to what I have been thrown at by Turkish Gray Wolves.




I have already know it my friend and group is mostly well educated people. You doesn't need to be act like someone touch your wound :rolleyes2:

No you haven't touched any wound just that how pick out few points of an whole discussion to create a whole new discussion, and even put in a whole new thing (Yazidis) this is what people call distracting from the topic.

And sure you have many educated friends and I am living in a ghetto.





Just a answer :grin:, 2014 February now I am wait my mtFull Sequence & R1a - Z280 SNP Pack results

Edit: Thanks to thanks my mtDNA results has already come, I just saw when I checked my account for your question :good_job:

Now I am not just J1b - I am J1b1b1

I see so you aren't really R1a but just haven't yet had any further downstream testing. You are possibly a z93 (Eurasian branch) congratulations to your results.

Yetos
19-11-15, 22:14
Some people here are so pro Americans, although Europeans
that they can not see what is going on,

18/11/2015

Holande and Putin agreed on exchanging infos and cooperate together at war against ISIS,

at Francais air carrier 'Charles De Gaulle' will be stationed Russian airplanes
and the Russian bases at Syrria accomodate Francais officers.


at 26/11/2015 Hollande is visiting Moscow,

the only who is not 'hot and willing' against Daesh until now is Obama.

they will finish DAESH before the EURO 2016, or they will cancel the Eurocup

Perhaps the new 'SYKES PICOT' will be ready before Euro2016

If I remember correct.
First 'reborn' of Democracy happen at England with Cromwell and represantation under King, but ended as dictatorship
Second 'reborn' of Democracy happened at France and change the fate and minds all over the world
Revolution Francais and republic are considered 'sacred' to the political systems of today.
Although pass from 'bad and dirty waters' like terrorism and imperium etc etc

Piro Ilir
19-11-15, 22:15
Goga represents only his own opinion.... I was expecting more user knowledge from you at this point. Obama only gives half hearted support to Kurds because of NATO ally Turkey nothing more. Russia today is not UDDSR but I agree that literally every part of Europe which was dominated rather by Russia is far behind.

But todays Russia is not Communist anymore. Only ideological idiots with no brain and no knowledge whatsoever still believe Communism does work if even the former definition of Communism (Russia) has turned it's back towards this ridiculous type of system.

In fact todays Russia is ideologically and by system closer to Europe and even the US than Communist China or North Korea. Also Russia is supportive towards Kurds that must be said but honestly I don't see them really do more for us than the EU or US.

You can't hate Putin for simply doing what he thinks is the best for his country.
Putin is doing the best for his own interests, not for the Russians. He don't care for his own people. He is just another disgusting dictator. I hope the Russians throw him down. Either Erdogan it's copying him. Those guys think for themselves that they are Tsars and Sultans .

DuPidh
20-11-15, 00:00
I quite don't understand why you are still posting under false flag. From all your previous posts so far, and strangely always when it is in connection to Turkish affairs, it is obvious that you have a Pro Turkish government stands.

So you don't need to hide your real identity.




Wrong by now almost all Americans know who Kurds are and I have yet to come across an American who is anti Kurdish. And many other people, especially American and Western fighters who have joined Kurdish forces can confirm, how friendly the people are towards them.




http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/07/13/mideast-crisis-islamic-state-rosenberg-idINKCN0PN0SF20150713



I must be one of those few Kurds here, look at who calls me ignorant. Let us place bets who the people think is more ignorant, you or me.

Well, I hope all Kurds are not like you! If they are then its understandable why you'r not getting independence!

Piro Ilir
22-11-15, 20:32
You can say that the Arabic spring was just a way of removing the remaining non-arabic people from certain nations. it's just that assad ruined it for the arabic as he would not conform.

The west should be protecting the indigenous non-arabic people from all these middle-east and north african countries. protecting does not mean using the last resort and accepting them as migrants, protecting is to prevent arabic rule over the indigenous people so that they might survive.
The yazidi slaughter is a clear example of arabic GENOCIDE on the indigenous non-arabic people.
How many groups of not ethnic Arabs we have in middle east? Except the Yazidi .

Piro Ilir
22-11-15, 20:36
the attacks are by sunni on shia and other religions, they happen against shia in syria, irak, saudia arabia, yemen, lebanon ............how many more countries do you want me to mention.

yes, USA should support anyone who can keep the intolerant sunni leaders and their supporters from killing off every other religion in the world............listen to the speeches of the sunni mufta's .

you have no idea on what is happening
Not every Sunni it's a terrorist. The wahabist group it's an extremist one, not every Sunni group. This is what I am trying to say. The majority of the Arabs are Sunni. Shia are the Iranians. That's not good generalizing an whole religion.

Piro Ilir
22-11-15, 20:39
If your opinion is solely based on comments made on this forum, then you learn nothing

You need to seek your knowledge outside and ask the question on why the Americans will, in the end "backstab" the kurds and return to supporting the saudi's and the turks which hate the USA. its about time that the USA puts a halt on arabic agression
USA can't support Iran. Iran it's the most anti American state, and either it is aligned to Russia.

Piro Ilir
22-11-15, 20:49
no one believes in a stable democratic Syria any more
like no one believes in Arabic Spring any more
to many stupid, backward and intolerant people live in the area
Yes, it's difficult. The good an nice things are difficult. Even so, we should start somewhere. Those people need help. We should help them. The democracy it's the right way to do that. What, we let there Assad or replace him with another disgusting dictator?

Piro Ilir
22-11-15, 20:55
They will attack now after they lost their plane to IS terrorism.
I hope not for a Russian- France alliance. [emoji6] .

LeBrok
22-11-15, 21:27
I hope not for a Russian- France alliance. [emoji6] . At this moment I don't care much who will finish off IS with ground troops. This is a priority. However afterwords I would love to see UN peacekeepers installed in Syria, and Iraq Sunni area, till referendums on independence of ethnic regions. I can see Syria and Iraq splitting in 3 major parts: Kurdish, Sunni and Shia majority held. If anything, this is a first step to peace in Near East.
Giving independence and self governance to Sunnis in Iraq and Syria will take away ethnic base of Daesh. Sunnis will no longer require Daesh as their army, defenders and liberators from Shia Muslims and other dictatorial oppressors like Assad.

Boreas
22-11-15, 22:25
Absolutely divide and conquer but must hurt you that it doesn't work. I have known allot of Turkish racists and I have been keeping track on your arguments and they are identical to what I have been thrown at by Turkish Gray Wolves.

Not just Grey Wolves, even Erdogan's and Ataturk's party think that Zaza people is a different ethnic group. :good_job:

Encyclopedia of the Stateless Nations: S-Z James Minahan

https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Zu5GpDby9H0C&pg=PA2097&lpg=PA2097&dq=zaza+nations&source=bl&ots=INTdm2iDUH&sig=xjRholwgrsPceSIEtoTrCyUFR9A&hl=tr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQxIm06qTJAhXDliwKHchqCywQ6AEIKTAC#v=on epage&q=zaza%20nations&f=false





I see so you aren't really R1a but just haven't yet had any further downstream testing. You are possibly a z93 (Eurasian branch) congratulations to your results.


I am not Z93, I am Z283. My Y Dna matches
7525

DuPidh
22-11-15, 22:32
At this moment I don't care much who will finish off IS with ground troops. This is a priority. However afterwords I would love to see UN peacekeepers installed in Syria, and Iraq Sunni area, till referendums on independence of ethnic regions. I can see Syria and Iraq splitting in 3 major parts: Kurdish, Sunni and Shia majority held. If anything, this is a first step to peace in Near East.
Giving independence and self governance to Sunnis in Iraq and Syria will take away ethnic base of Daesh. Sunnis will no longer require Daesh as their army, defenders and liberators from Shia Muslims and other dictatorial oppressors like Assad.


You appear a bit ahead of time! Maybe its lack of knowledge on your part of the area, or something romantic.
Creating new states its not simply matter of procedures. You have to take into account the day after independence. An independent Kurdistan will trigger Turkish attacks and the Kurdistan will be split between turkmen and Kurds. The oil in Kurdistan makes such an attack very attractive. Turkmen are Turks who live in Iraq and Syria. I remind you to check what happened to Cyprus. Turkey has support in USA and Europe since is the most important country in middle east economically and politically.
Sunny Arabs in Iraq will commit suicide if the split from shias. Its the shias who have the oil. The Sunnis will be the weakest country economically. Once independence is given to an ethnic group there is a need for a guarantee of the independence. A great power or the international community. Who will guarantee the independence of Kurdistan? Sunnis?

Goga
22-11-15, 23:46
You appear a bit ahead of time! Maybe its lack of knowledge on your part of the area, or something romantic.
Creating new states its not simply matter of procedures. You have to take into account the day after independence. An independent Kurdistan will trigger Turkish attacks and the Kurdistan will be split between turkmen and Kurds. The oil in Kurdistan makes such an attack very attractive. Turkmen are Turks who live in Iraq and Syria. I remind you to check what happened to Cyprus. Turkey has support in USA and Europe since is the most important country in middle east economically and politically.
Sunny Arabs in Iraq will commit suicide if the split from shias. Its the shias who have the oil. The Sunnis will be the weakest country economically. Once independence is given to an ethnic group there is a need for a guarantee of the independence. A great power or the international community. Who will guarantee the independence of Kurdistan? Sunnis?
Turkmen? There're almost no Turkmen in the Middle East. I mean there are even more Assyrians (after they left their homes) in Iraq and Syria than Turkmen. Turkmen are nothing. There is no place for Turkmen in Kurdistan. They should go back to the Altai or to Turkey.

And nobody cares about what Turkey thinks. Turkey and Turks do everthing what the US telling them to do.

Turkey is not important at all. It's what the US is doing about Turkey. The US is making Turkey important, but sooner or later the US will dump Turkey. Kurdish oil will be sold via Syria or even via Iran. Kurdish oil can even be sold through the Black Sea, via Georgia.


When there will be the right time, the US and Europe will get rid and dump the Turks. Nobody cares about the Turks. Turks have been enemies of Europe since the very beginning the Turks invaded Western Anatolia from Mongolia, Altai etc.

Boreas
23-11-15, 00:33
There is no place for Turkmen in Kurdistan. They should go back to the Altai or to Turkey.


Like a small summary what will happen after Kurds have enough power, thanks GOGA

Goga
23-11-15, 00:39
Like a small summary what will happen after Kurds have enough power, thanks GOGAWell, my fatherland Shengal is for a huge part liberated from Sunni Daesh, and can guarantee you there will be no Sunni Muslims at least 50 km close to where my people the Ezdi live.

We don't want Turks, Muslims, Arabs near us. Please leave us just alone. What do those folks want from us, we don't shit golden eggs. We are just as human as all others who want to be left alone.

LABERIA
24-11-15, 21:17
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983
Turkish warplanes have shot down a Russian military aircraft on the border with Syria. Russian President Vladimir Putin said the Su-24 was hit by air-to-air missiles fired by Turkish F-16s while it was flying over Syrian territory. But Turkish military officials said the plane was engaged after being warned that it was violating Turkish airspace. Nice shot.

LeBrok
24-11-15, 21:44
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983 Nice shot.
Crazy stuff. On one hand it is over reaction to shoot down an ally plain taking part in actions against ISIS and having no military and immediate danger for Turkey. On other hand Russians are know for testing other's airspace for only known to them reasons. This time with grave consequences.

I wonder if it is a case that Russians flew over disputed territory between Syria and Turkey? In this case Syria and Russia can claim that their plane was still over Syria.

LABERIA
24-11-15, 22:09
Crazy stuff. On one hand it is over reaction to shoot down an ally plain taking part in actions against ISIS and having no military and immediate danger for Turkey. On other hand Russians are know for testing other's airspace for only known to them reasons. This time with grave consequences.

I wonder if it is a case that Russians flew over disputed territory between Syria and Turkey? In this case Syria and Russia can claim that their plane was still over Syria.

Russia is an uninvited "ally". I think that the West possesses all the tools to provide a solution to the Syrian crisis. So the elimination of the Islamic risk, and the overthrow of the dictatorial regime of Assad. The main obstacle is Russia. Turkey did very well. Someone have to show the teeth to the Russians.

LABERIA
24-11-15, 22:15
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-syria-crisis-helicopter-idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124
(http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-syria-crisis-helicopter-idUSKBN0TD1KQ20151124)

Syria insurgents destroy Russian helicopter with missile

Syrian fighters destroyed a Russian helicopter with a missile, shortly after they forced it to make an emergency landing in a nearby government-held area in Syria's Latakia province on Tuesday, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
A Syrian insurgent group, recipient of U.S. Tow missiles, said its fighters hit the helicopter with an anti-tank missile while it was in the air and put out a video showing the helicopter being blown up after one of its fighters struck it with another missile.





I think that Syria will be a new Afganistan for Russia

LeBrok
24-11-15, 22:38
Russia is an uninvited "ally". I meant an ally in context of coalition against Daesh.


I think that the West possesses all the tools to provide a solution to the Syrian crisis. Yes, West has resources but not a will to be involved in another Near East conflict. They god discouraged by mess in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought that not engaging in Syria they will be left alone. I have to admit that I was willing to try something new too, as not engaging this time. Surprise, surprise, without Western boots on the ground there is even a bigger mess. Mess in Syria and mess in Europe. ISIS wants to fight West to invoke Armageddon and end of days. Conversely, ordinary Syrians want to hid in Europe for safety and normal life.



So the elimination of the Islamic risk, and the overthrow of the dictatorial regime of Assad. The main obstacle is Russia. Turkey did very well. Someone have to show the teeth to the Russians.
It will depend on Russian's actions. They want to insert their influence helping Assad for sure. However they might be swayed to replace Assad with some form of new government.
They will be helpful in fight against Daesh, but surely destructive in post Daesh building of independent and democratic Syria. And who knows how they will treat Kurds?

LABERIA
24-11-15, 22:53
I meant an ally in context of coalition against Daesh.
I doubt.


Yes, West has resources but not a will to be involved in another Near East conflict. They god discouraged by mess in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought that not engaging in Syria they will be left alone. I have to admit that I was willing to try something new too, as not engaging this time. Surprise, surprise, without Western boots on the ground there is even a bigger mess. Mess in Syria and mess in Europe. ISIS wants to fight West to invoke Armageddon and end of days. Conversely, ordinary Syrians want to hid in Europe for safety and normal life.
Better a new Aganistan than a new Vietnam. Also Europe have to decide. The reaction of Europe have to be within the framework of NATO. Need more solidarity.



It will depend on Russian's actions. They want to insert their influence helping Assad for sure. However they might be swayed to replace Assad with some form of new government.
They will be helpful in fight against Daesh, but surely destructive in post Daesh building of independent and democratic Syria. And who knows how they will treat Kurds?
This country has suffered a lot from this dictatorship. At first they suffered the father, now they are suffering the son. I do not know, Assad has a son? The solution for Syria is democracy. And democracy is a alien concept to Putin and the Russians.

bicicleur
24-11-15, 22:56
Russia is an uninvited "ally". I think that the West possesses all the tools to provide a solution to the Syrian crisis. So the elimination of the Islamic risk, and the overthrow of the dictatorial regime of Assad. The main obstacle is Russia. Turkey did very well. Someone have to show the teeth to the Russians.

time someone shows teeth to Erdogan

his intentions are as doubtfull as Putins

DuPidh
24-11-15, 22:58
[QUOTE=LeBrok;471393]I meant an ally in context of coalition against Daesh.

Yes, West has resources but not a will to be involved in another Near East conflict. They god discouraged by mess in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought that not engaging in Syria they will be left alone. I have to admit that I was willing to try something new too, as not engaging this time. Surprise, surprise, without Western boots on the ground there is even a bigger mess. Mess in Syria and mess in Europe. ISIS wants to fight West to invoke Armageddon and end of days. Conversely, ordinary Syrians want to hid in Europe for safety and normal life.



It will depend on Russian's actions. They want to insert their influence helping Assad for sure. However they might be swayed to replace Assad with some form of new government.
They will be helpful in fight against Daesh, but surely destructive in post Daesh building of independent and democratic Syria. And who knows how they will treat Kurds?[/QUOT

Russia just got a warning shot from Turkey. One of their planes was shot down today, deep in Syrian territory. (3 miles). In order to help Assad, Russians were bombing Turkmens. They also were supporting Kurdish fighters to achieve their goal of connecting their territories in north Syria. Turkey warned Russians to stay away of their goals or Turks will fight them. Turkish fight could turn ugly blocking Dardanelles to Russian ships making Russians Latakia base worthless.
In fact the indifference of the world for what was happening to Syria was ugly. Syria is the backyard of Europe and Europeans had a moral responsibility to do something to stop the destruction of the country. Not to speak about Arab countries that stood spectators. Arab countries could have lobbied for the powers to intervene. They didn't. Europeans would not had intervened, had not the refugees knocking in Europe's doors.
Irans participation in the process is a joke.

bicicleur
24-11-15, 22:59
This country has suffered a lot from this dictatorship. At first they suffered the father, now they are suffering the son. I do not know, Assad has a son? The solution for Syria is democracy. And democracy is a alien concept to Putin and the Russians.

democracy in Syria? dream on my friend
Arabian spring is dead and burried

Piro Ilir
24-11-15, 23:38
At this moment I don't care much who will finish off IS with ground troops. This is a priority. However afterwords I would love to see UN peacekeepers installed in Syria, and Iraq Sunni area, till referendums on independence of ethnic regions. I can see Syria and Iraq splitting in 3 major parts: Kurdish, Sunni and Shia majority held. If anything, this is a first step to peace in Near East.
Giving independence and self governance to Sunnis in Iraq and Syria will take away ethnic base of Daesh. Sunnis will no longer require Daesh as their army, defenders and liberators from Shia Muslims and other dictatorial oppressors like Assad.
If Russia gets on the ground and win against Isis , the game it's finished. Russia wins. Personally I wish that Russians gets out of there. That's a key point. Afterwards NATO sends troops there on the ground if it is necessary. So who finish off the Isis , it's too important. If it's Russia the one, everything it's over, Russia wins.

LABERIA
25-11-15, 00:00
time someone shows teeth to Erdogan

his intentions are as doubtfull as Putins

We are speaking about politcs. And politcs does not work according to the wishes but priorities.

LABERIA
25-11-15, 00:04
democracy in Syria? dream on my friend
Arabian spring is dead and burried

Not the first, not the last. Your quiet life in Belgium also.

LeBrok
25-11-15, 00:24
democracy in Syria? dream on my friend
Arabian spring is dead and burried
What about Tunisia, Lebanon and sort of democratic state of Algeria. There are beacons of democracy there.
Do you think that democratic process can be stopped forever?

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:22
Crazy stuff. On one hand it is over reaction to shoot down an ally plain taking part in actions against ISIS and having no military and immediate danger for Turkey. On other hand Russians are know for testing other's airspace for only known to them reasons. This time with grave consequences.

I wonder if it is a case that Russians flew over disputed territory between Syria and Turkey? In this case Syria and Russia can claim that their plane was still over Syria.
1- it was a wrong decision shooting that warplane . It was not necessary, even if the warplane violated the turkish airspace.

2- that shoot was helpful only to tame the Russian arrogance. [emoji6]

3- the goal of Russia is to keep in power Assad .

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:33
I meant an ally in context of coalition against Daesh.

Yes, West has resources but not a will to be involved in another Near East conflict. They god discouraged by mess in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought that not engaging in Syria they will be left alone. I have to admit that I was willing to try something new too, as not engaging this time. Surprise, surprise, without Western boots on the ground there is even a bigger mess. Mess in Syria and mess in Europe. ISIS wants to fight West to invoke Armageddon and end of days. Conversely, ordinary Syrians want to hid in Europe for safety and normal life.



It will depend on Russian's actions. They want to insert their influence helping Assad for sure. However they might be swayed to replace Assad with some form of new government.
They will be helpful in fight against Daesh, but surely destructive in post Daesh building of independent and democratic Syria. And who knows how they will treat Kurds?
As long as we have there Assad, we would have either ISIS. If Assad left , Isis left. [emoji6] .

2- Obama said, we can't send there troops temporary. If we send there troops, we should stay there in long terms. The goal it's pretty clear. There is not a common point between USA and Russia about Syria. Russia can't allow the troops of USA within the Syrian state. USA can't send there troops as long as there are Russian troops. It might bring in a confrontation.

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:35
time someone shows teeth to Erdogan

his intentions are as doubtfull as Putins
Who do you have in mind?

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:40
[QUOTE=LeBrok;471393]I meant an ally in context of coalition against Daesh.

Yes, West has resources but not a will to be involved in another Near East conflict. They god discouraged by mess in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought that not engaging in Syria they will be left alone. I have to admit that I was willing to try something new too, as not engaging this time. Surprise, surprise, without Western boots on the ground there is even a bigger mess. Mess in Syria and mess in Europe. ISIS wants to fight West to invoke Armageddon and end of days. Conversely, ordinary Syrians want to hid in Europe for safety and normal life.



It will depend on Russian's actions. They want to insert their influence helping Assad for sure. However they might be swayed to replace Assad with some form of new government.
They will be helpful in fight against Daesh, but surely destructive in post Daesh building of independent and democratic Syria. And who knows how they will treat Kurds?[/QUOT

Russia just got a warning shot from Turkey. One of their planes was shot down today, deep in Syrian territory. (3 miles). In order to help Assad, Russians were bombing Turkmens. They also were supporting Kurdish fighters to achieve their goal of connecting their territories in north Syria. Turkey warned Russians to stay away of their goals or Turks will fight them. Turkish fight could turn ugly blocking Dardanelles to Russian ships making Russians Latakia base worthless.
In fact the indifference of the world for what was happening to Syria was ugly. Syria is the backyard of Europe and Europeans had a moral responsibility to do something to stop the destruction of the country. Not to speak about Arab countries that stood spectators. Arab countries could have lobbied for the powers to intervene. They didn't. Europeans would not had intervened, had not the refugees knocking in Europe's doors.
Irans participation in the process is a joke.
About Iran: there are killed already three Iranian generals in Syria. Two of them were part of the revolutionary guard of Iran. Hezbollah was helping Assad from months already.

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:41
democracy in Syria? dream on my friend
Arabian spring is dead and burried
Well should start somewhere, and one day, right.

Piro Ilir
25-11-15, 14:44
What about Tunisia, Lebanon and sort of democratic state of Algeria. There are beacons of democracy there.
Do you think that democratic process can be stopped forever?
I read that in Saudi Arabia they held municipal elections. It's not a big thing, but at least we have something where to start.

bicicleur
25-11-15, 15:19
Well should start somewhere, and one day, right.

wherever fragile democracy is starting Muslim fundamentalism will destroy it
first destroy fundamentalism before democracy is possible

bicicleur
25-11-15, 15:21
I read that in Saudi Arabia they held municipal elections. It's not a big thing, but at least we have something where to start.

Saudi Arabia has adopted a new law which makes atheism illegal and promoting atheism will be punsihed with death penalty

Wahabism is pure evil

bicicleur
25-11-15, 15:25
1- it was a wrong decision shooting that warplane . It was not necessary, even if the warplane violated the turkish airspace.

2- that shoot was helpful only to tame the Russian arrogance. [emoji6]

3- the goal of Russia is to keep in power Assad .

the plane was shot to increase Erdogan popularity in Turkey

the goal of Erdogan is to keep war in Syria going

bicicleur
25-11-15, 15:32
Who do you have in mind?

we'll see what happens next time a Turkish plane flies over Syria

LeBrok
25-11-15, 18:10
2- Obama said, we can't send there troops temporary. If we send there troops, we should stay there in long terms. The goal it's pretty clear. There is not a common point between USA and Russia about Syria. Russia can't allow the troops of USA within the Syrian state. USA can't send there troops as long as there are Russian troops. It might bring in a confrontation.
If West reacts with troops, they would probably lead the offensive from Iraq and Kurdistan. At the end we might have a split into 2 Syrias. Like east and west Germany was.

LeBrok
25-11-15, 18:12
About Iran: there are killed already three Iranian generals in Syria. Two of them were part of the revolutionary guard of Iran. Hezbollah was helping Assad from months already.
I didn't know they Iran was helping Hezbollah in Syria, I thought they were involved in Iraq only. Can you point me to an article to read about this?

LeBrok
25-11-15, 18:28
I read that in Saudi Arabia they held municipal elections. It's not a big thing, but at least we have something where to start.
It is a good news then. I believe that if society is well off, with full belly sort to speak, it becomes less militant, less angry, less violent, relaxed, happy, educated. In such society there is no need for strict control, dictatorship, regimes to keep it running. You can give people a lot of freedoms and democracy and country won't collapse or disintegrate.
I think it is a natural way, people like it, because we come from small HG tribes, when everybody set around fire and had a voice and power to decide. Democracy is a natural state of small tribes, and me might be genetically predisposed to like it, and feel good and important in it.
Summing it up, giving enough time and economic development of the whole world, all countries will be democratic and societies free.

LeBrok
25-11-15, 18:30
the plane was shot to increase Erdogan popularity in Turkey

the goal of Erdogan is to keep war in Syria going
It could have been in response to Russians bombing Turkish minority in Syria.

bicicleur
25-11-15, 18:37
It is a good news then. I believe that if society is well off, with full belly sort to speak, it becomes less militant, less angry, less violent, relaxed, happy, educated. In such society there is no need for strict control, dictatorship, regimes to keep it running. You can give people a lot of freedoms and democracy and country won't collapse or disintegrate.
I think it is a natural way, people like it, because we come from small HG tribes, when everybody set around fire and had a voice and power to decide. Democracy is a natural state of small tribes, and me might be genetically predisposed to like it, and feel good and important in it.
Summing it up, giving enough time and economic development of the whole world, all countries will be democratic and societies free.

you obviously don't know shit about Saoudi-Arabia

for a starter google Wahabism and Saudi-Arabia law & human rights maybe

bicicleur
25-11-15, 18:38
It could have been in response to Russians bombing Turkish minority in Syria.

it won't be because Russians bomb Kurds like Turkish do

LeBrok
25-11-15, 19:21
it won't be because Russians bomb Kurds like Turkish do
Do you have any abidance that Russians bombed Kurds?

LeBrok
25-11-15, 19:29
you obviously don't know shit about Saoudi-Arabia

for a starter google Wahabism and Saudi-Arabia law & human rights maybe

I have no idea why you react to someone conversation with such anger?

We talked about municipal elections in SA. Nobody says that SA is free and democratic. We just mentioned a positive aspect of SA opening up to democracy and inclusiveness. Whatever aspects of SA politics is and human rights violation, this municipal election development is a good news, together with women right to vote. Don't you think?


Elections in Saudi Arabia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia) have been historically rare. Municipal elections (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_election) were held in 2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_municipal_elections,_2005) and were planned for 2009. After two years' delay, they were held in 2011 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_municipal_elections,_2011).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-Star_KSA_municip_2011-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-TheNational_KSA_municip_2011-2) In September 2011, King Abdullah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Abdullah_of_Saudi_Arabia) granted women the right to vote and stand in the 2015 municipal elections (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian_municipal_elections,_2015).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-oman_observer_electionday-3)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia

Sile
25-11-15, 19:50
it won't be because Russians bomb Kurds like Turkish do

never heard of this especially since they are allies via Iran.

Sile
25-11-15, 19:54
Obama still does not see that the ISIS are sunni-arabs who originate via ex- iraq army soldiers who hate the current shia iraq government. He allowed them to form.

his support for the sunni-arab saudis is the reason why ISIS is still around ............the turks are lapdogs to the saudis in allowing ISIS to come and go through turkey when they please.

As stated, the 822km border between syria and turkey is the least patrolled anywhere in the middle-east

bicicleur
25-11-15, 20:08
I have no idea why you react to someone conversation with such anger?

We talked about municipal elections in SA. Nobody says that SA is free and democratic. We just mentioned a positive aspect of SA opening up to democracy and inclusiveness. Whatever aspects of SA politics is and human rights violation, this municipal election development is a good news, together with women right to vote. Don't you think?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia

do you also know about this new law in SA by which atheism is terrorism and promoting atheism will be punished by death penalty ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

do you realy believe SA is heading in the right direction ?

bicicleur
25-11-15, 20:12
What about Tunisia, Lebanon and sort of democratic state of Algeria. There are beacons of democracy there.
Do you think that democratic process can be stopped forever?

tell me what exactly is better in these countries now?

as long as Muslim fundamentalism is around, it will prevent democracy to grow
if you want to induce democracy you'll have to kill fundamentalism first
do you see it happen?

bicicleur
25-11-15, 20:14
never heard of this especially since they are allies via Iran.

they don't, so it can't be the reason why Turks shot their plane

LeBrok
25-11-15, 20:15
do you also know about this new law in SA by which atheism is a crime and promoting atheism will be punished by death penalty ?
Nope, feel free to post the link.
You forgot to post the link to Kurds bombing by Russians.

bicicleur
25-11-15, 20:16
Not the first, not the last. Your quiet life in Belgium also.

better now than later

bicicleur
25-11-15, 20:22
Nope, feel free to post the link.
You forgot to post the link to Kurds bombing by Russians.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

you didn't read my post properly

look at the post I replied to

Russia is not bombing the Kurds, Turkey is

LeBrok
25-11-15, 20:35
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

you didn't read my post properly

look at the post I replied to

Russia is not bombing the Kurds, Turkey is

You mean you didn't write it correctly, right?


http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by bicicleur http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=471527#post471527)
it won't be because Russians bomb Kurds like Turkish do

LeBrok
25-11-15, 20:49
Turkey has dialed down their rhetoric against Russia in today's government speeches. Obviously other Nato members told them what stupid thing they have done.

Turkey runs bombing missions over Syria, right? I wonder how easy it will be now for them to enter Syrian air space?
As soon as Russians can recognize Turkish plane from other Nato planes, by the way of radar or other electronic means, they are going down over Syria.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:30
wherever fragile democracy is starting Muslim fundamentalism will destroy it
first destroy fundamentalism before democracy is possible
If I could ask. Did you ever read the history of the course of democracy, at USA and in west Europe? How many people died there? Do you ever read about the American revolution and about the civil war ? Do you ever read about the French revolution? Do you ever read about the long democratic process of great Britain?

First we starts with small stuff, after with great and important stuff. If we install there some small democratic institutions, after we will haven't larger ones. Even the municipal elections are something great where we could start.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:34
the plane was shot to increase Erdogan popularity in Turkey

the goal of Erdogan is to keep war in Syria going
Yes, one of the reasons was to distract the public opinion from his internal anti democratic problems. Topically of dictators. Recently the son in law of Erdogan was charged as a minister. Also he is acting against the freedom of the media within the turkey.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:36
Saudi Arabia has adopted a new law which makes atheism illegal and promoting atheism will be punsihed with death penalty

Wahabism is pure evil
Wahabism it's a subgroup of the Sunni, which is too radical religion. My point was another one. At least municipal elections, than nothing at all.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:41
If West reacts with troops, they would probably lead the offensive from Iraq and Kurdistan. At the end we might have a split into 2 Syrias. Like east and west Germany was.
I think the goal of USA and the west it's the overthrow of Assad`s regime . They can't send there troops ,until the Assad it's still in power. I think this is the right decision. If we have at the same state both Russian troops and USA troops it could bring in a large confrontation.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:43
I didn't know they Iran was helping Hezbollah in Syria, I thought they were involved in Iraq only. Can you point me to an article to read about this?
Indeed they are involved more in Iraq. But in Syria they are more involved with the Hezbollah and the officials of the revolutionary guard. I don't have any reason to lie.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:47
It could have been in response to Russians bombing Turkish minority in Syria.
Maybe the goal was for the both. Russia has bombed the convoy of oil which was going to Turkey from ISIS. Turkmens are part of the business.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:52
you obviously don't know shit about Saoudi-Arabia

for a starter google Wahabism and Saudi-Arabia law & human rights maybe
There is no need for wahabism. They had already some medieval laws. One of these is, that they cut your hand if you steal something. They are a partly medieval state. So you are not telling us, something that we don't know already.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:55
I have no idea why you react to someone conversation with such anger?

We talked about municipal elections in SA. Nobody says that SA is free and democratic. We just mentioned a positive aspect of SA opening up to democracy and inclusiveness. Whatever aspects of SA politics is and human rights violation, this municipal election development is a good news, together with women right to vote. Don't you think?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Saudi_Arabia
Some people think that the democracy may show up, suddenly from one moment to the other moment. Just read the Britain history, the France history, USA history, German history etc.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 13:59
Obama still does not see that the ISIS are sunni-arabs who originate via ex- iraq army soldiers who hate the current shia iraq government. He allowed them to form.

his support for the sunni-arab saudis is the reason why ISIS is still around ............the turks are lapdogs to the saudis in allowing ISIS to come and go through turkey when they please.

As stated, the 822km border between syria and turkey is the least patrolled anywhere in the middle-east
The goal of Turkey it's the overthrow of Assad regime. Turkey don't care who is gonna do that. If they are aliens, it doesn't make any difference. Also seems turkey it's making business with ISIS.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 14:01
do you also know about this new law in SA by which atheism is terrorism and promoting atheism will be punished by death penalty ?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

do you realy believe SA is heading in the right direction ?
In Saudi Arabia people are punished to death penalty even for other things. That's not something new.

Piro Ilir
26-11-15, 14:07
tell me what exactly is better in these countries now?

as long as Muslim fundamentalism is around, it will prevent democracy to grow
if you want to induce democracy you'll have to kill fundamentalism first
do you see it happen?
I think you missed the whole point . Spreading the democracy would kill the fundamentalism. That's need time. It would never happens if we send there Russian troops. At least we allow there the American troops.

bicicleur
26-11-15, 14:42
If I could ask. Did you ever read the history of the course of democracy, at USA and in west Europe? How many people died there? Do you ever read about the American revolution and about the civil war ? Do you ever read about the French revolution? Do you ever read about the long democratic process of great Britain?

First we starts with small stuff, after with great and important stuff. If we install there some small democratic institutions, after we will haven't larger ones. Even the municipal elections are something great where we could start.

ok, we shouldn't talk about democracy coming but about a lot of blood, sweat and tears for sure and maybe, just maybe democracy

bicicleur
26-11-15, 14:45
I think you missed the whole point . Spreading the democracy would kill the fundamentalism. That's need time. It would never happens if we send there Russian troops. At least we allow there the American troops.

Obama does not want to send troops. They feel safe on the other side of the ocean.
And Europe even doesn't have troops to send.

bicicleur
26-11-15, 14:49
There is no need for wahabism. They had already some medieval laws. One of these is, that they cut your hand if you steal something. They are a partly medieval state. So you are not telling us, something that we don't know already.

I think the Saoudi regime will stumble in 5 years because with these oil prices they spend much more money than they receive.
That would be a good thing, but Wahabists will take over, it will become much worse even.

bicicleur
26-11-15, 15:37
Maybe the goal was for the both. Russia has bombed the convoy of oil which was going to Turkey from ISIS. Turkmens are part of the business.

today the Russians are bombing those Turkmens in Syria ; Turkey is putting more artillerie on the border
we are ready for more escalation
very stupid action of Erdogan yesterday, but cheered by stupid Turks, so it is good for Erdogan, and even better for ISIS

LeBrok
26-11-15, 18:26
I think the Saoudi regime will stumble in 5 years because with these oil prices they spend much more money than they receive.
Finally some optimism!



That would be a good thing, but Wahabists will take over, it will become much worse even.
And it's gone.

bicicleur
27-11-15, 13:34
Nope, feel free to post the link.
You forgot to post the link to Kurds bombing by Russians.

and this is the consequence of the new law :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-executions-kingdom-to-behead-50-men-convicted-of-terrorism-offences-despite-threat-of-a6750631.html

nobody knows if these people commited crimes, confesions were made after torture

probably their crime is that they are shia and don't conform to the strict Wahabist religion

and when these corrupt Saudi kings will be gone, Wahabism will even stand stronger

ElHorsto
27-11-15, 16:45
Global Balkans taking more shape: ISIS in Ukraine (http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=11677:isis-aligned-fighters-in-ukraine-battle-alongside-neo-nazis&Itemid=301)

LeBrok
27-11-15, 21:00
and this is the consequence of the new law :

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-executions-kingdom-to-behead-50-men-convicted-of-terrorism-offences-despite-threat-of-a6750631.html

nobody knows if these people commited crimes, confesions were made after torture

probably their crime is that they are shia and don't conform to the strict Wahabist religion

and when these corrupt Saudi kings will be gone, Wahabism will even stand stronger

Country is messed, no doubt aoubt that.
They say that some of executions and tortured could be related to internal power straggle too.

The timing of the executions, should they be carried out, has much to do with a power struggle going on between Mohammad bin Nayef, the Interior Minister and crown prince, and Mohammad bin Salman, Minister of Defence, deputy crown prince and favoured younger son of King Salman.
For several years, the 30-year-old Mohammad bin Salman has served as his ailing father’s gatekeeper – the king is believed to be suffering from dementia. But since the king ascended to the throne in January his son has amassed vast new powers. In addition to his appointment as Defence Minister, he serves as chief of the royal court, and chairman of the Council for Economic and Development Affairs.

LeBrok
27-11-15, 21:37
Global Balkans taking more shape: ISIS in Ukraine (http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=11677:isis-aligned-fighters-in-ukraine-battle-alongside-neo-nazis&Itemid=301)
Same article claims this:

It should be noted that there are also Chechens fighting for Russia in the Ukraine.Other Russian Islamists have gone to wage jihad in Syria and Iraq. The manager of the Russian Federal Security Apparatus (FSB), Aleksadr Botanivok, estimated in June that the number of Russians fighting in Iraq is about 1,700. He expressed his concern regarding the growth of the effect of ISIS in Russia and called for more cooperation with Washington and the West on this issue.Experts believe there may be 5,000 Russians fighting for the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

DuPidh
27-11-15, 22:45
Same article claims this:

John Bolton (ex american ambassador to UN) proposes creation of SUNNISTAN, a new state that includes Sunnies in Iraq and Syria plus Kurds in a new state. Coastal Syria where Alawites live to be left as new Syria, in About 1/5 of todays Syria.

ElHorsto
28-11-15, 00:18
Same article claims this:

It should be noted that there are also Chechens fighting for Russia in the Ukraine.Other Russian Islamists have gone to wage jihad in Syria and Iraq. The manager of the Russian Federal Security Apparatus (FSB), Aleksadr Botanivok, estimated in June that the number of Russians fighting in Iraq is about 1,700. He expressed his concern regarding the growth of the effect of ISIS in Russia and called for more cooperation with Washington and the West on this issue.Experts believe there may be 5,000 Russians fighting for the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.





Yes, experts believe that, for instance Putin:

"Putin says thousands from Russia, CIS joined Islamic State in Iraq and Syria"
(http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/putin-says-thousands-from-russia-cis-joined-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-syria)

LeBrok
28-11-15, 03:26
Yes, experts believe that, for instance Putin:

"Putin says thousands from Russia, CIS joined Islamic State in Iraq and Syria"
(http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/putin-says-thousands-from-russia-cis-joined-islamic-state-in-iraq-and-syria)
Yes, just pointed it out for the balance, for more objective point of view.

LeBrok
28-11-15, 03:28
John Bolton (ex american ambassador to UN) proposes creation of SUNNISTAN, a new state that includes Sunnies in Iraq and Syria plus Kurds in a new state. Coastal Syria where Alawites live to be left as new Syria, in About 1/5 of todays Syria.
Was he reading my posts? lol
The only thing is I couldn't figure out if Sunnis from Iraq speak same language as Sunnis from Syria (Arabic?), and if they really want to be in one country?

Boreas
28-11-15, 04:58
Was he reading my posts? lol
The only thing is I couldn't figure out if Sunnis from Iraq speak same language as Sunnis from Syria (Arabic?), and if they really want to be in one country?

Not totally same arabic, but I have no idea of how much difference. It should be just accent difference.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Arabic_Dialects.svg/2000px-Arabic_Dialects.svg.png

However, I don't see any future for Sunnistan. They won't have natural sources and no access to sea. They probably be a second Armenia in economy case.

LeBrok
28-11-15, 05:47
However, I don't see any future for Sunnistan. They won't have natural sources and no access to sea. They probably be a second Armenia in economy case.Like Jordan. Lack of natural resources is not an obstacle to have own country. There are examples of such countries.

Boreas
28-11-15, 08:57
Like Jordan. Lack of natural resources is not an obstacle to have own country. There are examples of such countries.

At least Jordan has some sources

http://globalpnetwork.net/sites/default/files/WorldProck_Reserves_IFDC_2010.jpg

I am not sure that is there any unificaiton desire between Sunnis in Syria and Sunnis in Iraq.

LeBrok
28-11-15, 09:44
At least Jordan has some sources



I am not sure that is there any unificaiton desire between Sunnis in Syria and Sunnis in Iraq.Right. They might end up with two separate countries.

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:08
ok, we shouldn't talk about democracy coming but about a lot of blood, sweat and tears for sure and maybe, just maybe democracy
Good things, need a lot of blood. There is not such a glorious ideal as it's the democracy.

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:10
Obama does not want to send troops. They feel safe on the other side of the ocean.
And Europe even doesn't have troops to send.
No, USA it's not ready to send troops and after to leave. If they send troops there, their goal it's to stay for a long period. At least this is what Obama said.

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:17
I think the Saoudi regime will stumble in 5 years because with these oil prices they spend much more money than they receive.
That would be a good thing, but Wahabists will take over, it will become much worse even.
Following your logic, we should say that even the Putin's regime would stumble. I don't think that USA would allow the over thrown of Saudis. The goal of USA it's to weak the Russia. This could happen only by building the new pipelines of gas.

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:21
today the Russians are bombing those Turkmens in Syria ; Turkey is putting more artillerie on the border
we are ready for more escalation
very stupid action of Erdogan yesterday, but cheered by stupid Turks, so it is good for Erdogan, and even better for ISIS
So, what's the position of USA? That's the key point on it.

DuPidh
28-11-15, 14:26
Was he reading my posts? lol
The only thing is I couldn't figure out if Sunnis from Iraq speak same language as Sunnis from Syria (Arabic?), and if they really want to be in one country?

General Petreas (ex US commander of Iraq American Army) said in an interview that America should not send ground troops in Syria because that country can not be put together anymore. The way ISIS operate together is the Sunny areas of Iraq and Syria. So, obviously exists a religious solidarity among those groups which can be used as a foundation for a new state. Kurdistan is not on the table for the reason of Turkey. So, I think Russia is aware of these plans and is trying to expand Assad's future possessions. Syria as it is is questionable. So it is Iraq.

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:30
Was he reading my posts? lol
The only thing is I couldn't figure out if Sunnis from Iraq speak same language as Sunnis from Syria (Arabic?), and if they really want to be in one country?
If the catholics and protestants live in peace and harmony in USA, why could not do the same the Shiite and Sunni Arabs?

Piro Ilir
28-11-15, 14:35
Right. They might end up with two separate countries.
If we go on like this, we would see a go backward to ancient times, with the creation of many city states. Looks pretty cool [emoji2].

ElHorsto
28-11-15, 17:02
Yes, just pointed it out for the balance, for more objective point of view.

That's not a balancing point, that's something entirely different. It is a well known fact that IS has recruits from all of Europe and elsewhere, and even if many come from Russia, they are still enemies of Russia.
My point was that for the first time they fight in Europe, and they fight against Russia, which I roughly predicted already two years ago (not IS per se, but radicalized muslims in general).

LeBrok
28-11-15, 18:31
That's not a balancing point, that's something entirely different. It is a well known fact that IS has recruits from all of Europe and elsewhere, and even if many come from Russia, they are still enemies of Russia.
My point was that for the first time they fight in Europe, and they fight against Russia, which I roughly predicted already two years ago (not IS per se, but radicalized muslims in general).
If I recall well, they thought in Europe against France few weeks ago, right? Before you believe in notion from one website about IS fighting in Ukraine, and with official Ukrainian government knowledge of it, I would suggest waiting for more confirmation, than one article citing one website which claims to "know". There is way more confirmation of Putin directing and helping Russian uprising in Donbass, and yet you have a terrible time believing in it. Now, one website about IS in Ukraine and you are a true believer. How does it work for you? It is way easier to believe if you want this to be true, right?

LeBrok
28-11-15, 18:34
If we go on like this, we would see a go backward to ancient times, with the creation of many city states. Looks pretty cool [emoji2]. I think it is a future of the world. Smaller states under big unions.

LeBrok
28-11-15, 18:44
At least Jordan has some sources

http://globalpnetwork.net/sites/default/files/WorldProck_Reserves_IFDC_2010.jpg

I am not sure that is there any unificaiton desire between Sunnis in Syria and Sunnis in Iraq.
I'm sure in modern world and technologies we can find some natural resources in every country. If not oil, we can find diamonds, silver, phosphate, potassium, uranium, rare earth metals, etc. With better and detailed geological survey, I'm sure they can find something under this desert.

Sile
28-11-15, 19:38
If the catholics and protestants live in peace and harmony in USA, why could not do the same the Shiite and Sunni Arabs?

I said it before ..........the arab-sunni "spring" is a method to kill off all indigenous people who are NOT SUNNI and NOT ARAB . They are doing or trying to do it in Libya, Tunisia, Egpyt, Lebanaon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen and elsewhere.

since 2012 all terrorists acts are done by Sunni-arabs

The USA is being made a fool for supporting the GENOCIDE system of Sunni's on other races .................let me know when the USA WAKE-UP ................maybe never, especially with a call to create a SUNNISTAN ...by some USA people...........

ElHorsto
29-11-15, 16:37
If I recall well, they thought in Europe against France few weeks ago, right?

That is right. On the other hand the article is from July, but however.



I would suggest waiting for more confirmation, than one article citing one website which claims to "know".


If you read the article, it was not merely one website. Similar information was exhibited by a journalist from The Intercept.


There is way more confirmation of Putin directing and helping Russian uprising in Donbass, and yet you have a terrible time believing in it.

You are making this up. I always acknowledged that Putin is supporting the Donbass uprising. I denied that there is a russian invasion, and obviously I was right. In Syria you can see how an invasion would look like.