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LeBrok
13-06-14, 08:01
When "brilliant" George Bush invaded Iraq and killed Saddam Hussein he unleashed ethnic and religious forces who were kept in check by Saddam. Under recent Iraqi Government these forces couldn't or didn't want to find a middle ground under Iraqis fragile democracy. We also should blame Great Britain for arbitrarily carving borders of countries which never existed in the past, throwing ethnic mixes under one roof. Perhaps they should have just left, do nothing and let interested parties play the power game 50 years ago. Unfortunately, all mess was kept in check by British then by local aristocrats and finally by dictator Saddam. When finally George Bush created power vacuum all hell broke lose, especially hundreds years grievances between Shia and Sunni Muslims boiled up very quickly.

Recent news from Iraq tells a terrifying story of Sunni radical Muslims, affiliated with Al Qaeda, taking over second largest city in Iraq, Mosul and right now are marching on Baghdad. The group is called ISIS and its goal is to create Islamic state from parts of Syria and Iraq, and of course kill heretics Shia. Supposedly they are so radical that even Al Qaeda don't want to be affiliated with them anymore.

I think, that this messy situation in Iraq, and basically disintegration of government and army control over the country, can give opportunity and encourage Kurds to close their borders for protection of their population and declare independence. I think that the decisive factor will be the Sunni population of Kurdish region. They are the majority religion of Kurdistan and it will be interesting to see if they join Iraqi Sunni fighting Shia and will want Islamic state too. However Kurds are generally moderate, more tolerant, and even pro-western. No coalition soldier was killed by Kurds. I'm not geopolitical expert and I might be easily wrong, but I hope they will grab this opportunity and become hosts in their first own country.

http://yalibnan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/iraq-ethnic-groups-map.gif

ISIS, the Sunni radical rebels, are well organized, have equipment and money. They took over and run for business power generating facilities in Syria. They are reports that they sell electrical power back to Al-Assad regime making pretty good income. Now, as first big offensive, they took over oil fields around Mosul. Obviously they know of importance of economy to war efforts.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/12/5802824/how-isis-is-exploiting-the-economics-of-syrias-civil-war

KURDISH NEWS
http://kurdishquestion.com/kurdistan/west-kurdistan/western-comrades-join-kurds-arabs-secularists-yezidis-and-syriac-christians-against-islamic-state.html

bicicleur
13-06-14, 09:05
the problem is that Kurdistan is divided over 3 or 4 countries : Iraq, Iran, Turkey (Syria)
Iran and Turkey will not allow Kurdistan independance in Iraq as they are afraid the movement will spill over to their own territory as well

the powerplay between Shia and Sunni is as old as Islam itself
Islam is the best instance that religion was invented by some shrude people who are only interested in maintaining their own power base

albanopolis
13-06-14, 16:09
When "brilliant" Gorge Bush invaded Iraq and killed Saddam Hussein he unleashed ethnic and religious forces who were kept in check by Saddam. Under recent Iraqi Government these forces couldn't or didn't want to find a middle ground under Iraqis fragile democracy. We also should blame Great Britain for arbitrarily carving borders of countries which never existed in the past, throwing ethnic mixes under one roof. Perhaps they should have just left, do nothing and let interested parties play the power game 50 years ago. Unfortunately, all mess was kept in check by British then by local aristocrats and finally by dictator Saddam. When finally Gorge Bush created power vacuum all hell broke lose, especially hundreds years grievances between Shia and Sunni Muslims boiled up very quickly.

Recent news from Iraq tells a terrifying story of Sunni radical Muslims, affiliated with Al Qaeda, taking over second largest city in Iraq, Mosul and right now are marching on Baghdad. Their goal is to create Islamic state from parts of Syria and Iraq, and of course kill heretics Shia.

I think, that this messy situation in Iraq, and basically disintegration of government and army control over the country, can give opportunity and encourage Kurds to close their borders for protection of their population and declare independence. I think that the decisive factor will be the Sunni population of Kurd's region. They are the majority religion of Kurdistan and it will be interesting to see if they join Iraqi Sunni fighting Shia and will want Islamic state too. However Kurds are generally moderate, more tolerant, and even pro-western. No coalition soldier was killed by Kurds. I'm not geopolitical expert and I might be easily wrong, but I hope they will grab this opportunity and become hosts in their first own country.

http://yalibnan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/iraq-ethnic-groups-map.gif
Kurds deserve their own state. They are 30 mil strong in the region. In Iraq alone they are 7 Mil. If 250 000 Montenegrins have a state why not Kurds? I don't see Kurds as a real threat to the area. They have not shown that they can fight. 2 mil Chechens took on Rusia and almost wan. If I was Turkey I will support Kurdistan state in Iraq. It is said that in that region there are 45 bil barrels of oil. That means in a short term that will be the richest are in terms of money. So Kurds will emigrate there from Turkey lowering the number of popultion in Turkey.

Aberdeen
13-06-14, 16:48
The Sunni attack on Baghdad became inevitable once the Saudis talked George Bush into attacking Iraq. It was inevitable that Iraq would become a sinkhole for the Americans, and that they'd eventually leave a destabilized Iraq that would descend into civil war. The Saudis already have the areas that were once neutral zones between Saudi Arabia and Iraq, and once the Saudis have eastern Iraq and Syria, Jordan will soon fall. Then the Saudis will have a common border, so they can pursue their end game of attacking Israel. That won't turn out too well for the Saudis, but they're so far into their medieval mindset that they refuse to believe they won't win their holy war.

And no way will Turkey (or Iran) let the Kurds of Iraq create a separate country. Turkey and Iran will probably collude to share the Kurdish area of northern Iraq. And the Iranians will probably take over the Shiite Arab part of Iraq.

ebAmerican
13-06-14, 16:50
The Ukrainian incident set a precedent in territorial integrity and sovereignty. The US and world powers will not allow the disintegration of Iraq into 3 separate independent regions. The US will send drones and military support (money and weapons) to fight off Sunni insurgents and protect Baghdad. It's going to turn into another bloody conflict. The Sunni insurgents are viewed like terrorists, and wont be treated like a civil war.

LeBrok
13-06-14, 19:13
Good points guys about external players in this game.

Saudi Arabia is definitely big supporter of Sunnis in entire region. 85% of Saudis are Sunnis and official and sect royals belong is wahhabi, with highly strict religious rules. Saudis are rich and with this big money they can support whoever they like and influence regional organizations and their power struggle for dominance.
Important as it is it will have bigger consequences for Shia-Sunni war in Iraq than whether Kurds separate or not. Kurds are majority Sunni, so they are not on Saudis priority list to convert or fight. I don't see a good reason for Saudis to oppose an independent Kurdistan. Of course there are other rich oil Sunni states supporting radical groups but Saudi Arabia is the biggest player.

US and european allies don't have great appetite to send troops to support Iraq's government to try to stabilize country again. Thousands US troops are needed to keep Sunni rebels in check, but I don't see Obama making this decision. However he might unleash drones and fighter jets from Turkish bases not too far away. Without this help ISIS ( offshoot of Al Qaeda) might win in Iraq or at least we might have a bloody and long war like in Syria. In West's interest is better to support corrupt government of Iraq than to let Islamic extremists bring new order, or rather new mess. US will supporting the lesser evil.
Traditionally US was sympathetic for Kurds being a part of Iraq to make Iraq stronger, to better counterbalance regional forces against Iran. However at this point they might not be against Kurds closing borders and protecting themselves from radical Islam. The first step towards independance. I think US is generally sympathetic to Kurds. If Kurds strongly want independance US and allies won't oppose much.

It will be interesting to see what will Iran do in this conflict. Being mostly Shia they will definitely send money, equipment or even troops to aid Shia, therefore Iraqi government.

The Wall Street Journal is reporting (http://online.wsj.com/articles/iran-deploys-forces-to-fight-al-qaeda-inspired-militants-in-iraq-iranian-security-sources-1402592470) that Iran sent two battalions of Iranian Revolutionary Guards to help the Iraqi government in its battle against the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS).

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/12/5804184/iran-deployed-troops-iran-isis
So, paradoxically Iran will be on same side of this issue as the US. If it comes to Kurds case, this might be a different story. Iran obviously don't want to see precedence of free Kurdistan and consequences for their Kurd's territory. But if ISIS is against Kurdistan and Iran fights ISIS it will take ISIS forces and attention from Kurdistan and aid Kurds' independance. Iran has also its economic interests to protect in Iraq. They invested heavily in oil rigs and pumping oil in Iraq. If ISIS wins in Iraq, the Iranians will lose hundreds of billions of dollars in investment and future earnings.
Obviously Iran will not attack Kurds directly, because of quick retaliatory action from US bombers, and the price being too high to pay. Instead they can influence and help Iraqi Shia to fight against Kurds and their independence under umbrella of keeping Iraq together, and Kurds independance being unconstitutional. Same excuse Serbs used to fight Croatia and Bosnia.

I'm not sure how Turkey will react. I doubt they will enter Kurdistan. They would need to physically occupy new Kurdistan to prevent independance. Can you imagine international consequences, sanctions, possible conflict with rest of NATO and US? It is not worth it. Turkey, most likely, will tighten their borders to make sure ISIS elements won't infiltrate their Sunni majority. The last thing they want is to be exposed to these radicals and civil war in their country. Kurds are very peaceful when compared to ISIS.

LeBrok
13-06-14, 19:24
ISIS, the Sunni radical rebels, are well organized, have equipment and money. They took over and run for business power generating facilities in Syria. They are reports that they sell electrical power back to Al-Assad regime making pretty good income. Now, as first big offensive, they took over oil fields around Mosul. Obviously they know of importance of economy to war efforts.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/12/5802824/how-isis-is-exploiting-the-economics-of-syrias-civil-war

LeBrok
16-06-14, 07:27
It is said that current (8 years in power) Prime Minister of Iraq Al Maliki, has very strong ties with Iran. As shia he was hiding in Iran during Saddam Hussein's regime and has top level friends in Iranian political elite. He was against extending contract for American stay in Iraq, obviously supported in this by Iranian friends, culminating in total withdrawal of US army from Iraq. At the moment Iranians have sent their forces to Iraq to strengthen defences of Baghdad and Shia territory, due to disintegration of Iraqi's army and fast advances of Sunni rebels.
We might see disintegration of old borders, set by colonial powers, and witness creation of new political and state entities. If muslim fundamentalists will stay occupying Shia territory we might see a creation of new Sunni controlled state/Caliphate, made of parts of Iraq, Syria, Jordan and probably Palestine will join, with strong affiliation to Saudi Arabia. On other side Iran will acquire Shia region of Iraq. Even if Iran will not officially do that, they will technically control this region.

Turkey and Egypt will stay in one piece due to very strong armies and strict control of population.

I just hope Kurdistan won't be drawn into the mess and will use this moment to become an independent country.


http://thesinosaudiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mid-east-religion.jpg
http://thesinosaudiblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mid-east-religion.jpg

Ua'Ronain
27-06-14, 05:40
I honesty hope they can become independent and retain Kirkuk. If they manage to drive Isis from Mosul the people of that provice should be allowed to vote to join Kurdistan. I also feel for the plight of the Syrian Kurds in the self declared autonomous government in northern syria. In an ideal world they would be allowed to join with Iraqi Kurdistan.

The Kurds are the most moderate of the cultures in the region and have a secular government. They have been taking in Christians fleeing from Isis bombardment and have been protecting a village of 50,000 cjristians outside of Kurdistan proper. They also have moved to stop massacres of Shia on their doorstep as well. They also have gender equality and are by far the most pro-western people in Iraq.

With Iraq buying Russian and Belorussian warplanes this week and that face that they welcome Syrian airstrikes on thier own territory should speak volumes to us. As LeBrok said earlier they seem to be tied at the hip with Iran as well.


In the news today Obama asked congress for 500 million dollars to train and equip "moderate" Syrian rebels.... He has got to be kidding me! We should not get directly involved in the Shia-Sunni conflict but he should be sending that money to the damn Kurds!

LeBrok
27-06-14, 17:33
In the news today Obama asked congress for 500 million dollars to train and equip "moderate" Syrian rebels.... He has got to be kidding me! We should not get directly involved in the Shia-Sunni conflict but he should be sending that money to the damn Kurds!

I agree, we shouldn't take sides in shia/sunni conflict. It would be our war only to lose. Instead we should support all the moderate and independent countries and populations of the region.

Ua'Ronain
27-06-14, 23:20
According to Kurdish sources they have taken Kirkuk for themselves when the Iraq army in the north melted and left the city defenseless.

http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2014/6/kirkuk829.htm

They say that based of article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution that the city is now theirs.

oriental
28-06-14, 01:55
Saladin who fought the Crusaders was a Kurd. I don't quite know how the Kurds fared so badly after all he saved the Islamic empire.

LeBrok
28-06-14, 03:15
According to Kurdish sources they have taken Kirkuk for themselves when the Iraq army in the north melted and left the city defenseless.

http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2014/6/kirkuk829.htm

They say that based of article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution that the city is now theirs.
Sorry, I mean "we shouldn't take sides in shia/sunni conflict".

Ua'Ronain
29-06-14, 17:25
I understood what you meant LoBrok.

here is an article about the Iraqi Kurds by National Geographic. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140628-iraq-kurds-independence-kurdistan-sunni-baghdad.

In various news circles it has been reported that Iran has started shelling Kurdish villages (in Iran) near the border with Iraq. Turkey shot a Kurd trying to lower the Turkish flag as well as opening swaths of the Turkish controlled border with Syria to ISIS linked rebels. This is their way of sticking it to Rojava (the autonomous government of Kurds in Northern Syria) Rojava is trying to enter in a mutual defence pact with the KGR in Iraq.


6507

red is assad
yellow kurds
green free syrian army and grey is ISIS

Ua'Ronain
30-06-14, 22:10
Some updates...

June 30, 2014

ANKARA,— Turkey's Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Deputy Chairman Hüseyin Çelik has indicated that Turkey will recognize a Kurdish state in northern Iraq if the crisis-stricken country is divided, the Financial Times reported on Saturday.

“If Iraq is divided and it is inevitable, [the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG)] are our brothers. … Unfortunately, the situation in Iraq is not good and it looks like it is going to be divided,” Çelik said in his remarks to the Financial Times.

He also reportedly said that although an independent Kurdish state was previously a reason for war for Turkey, no one has the right to say so now.





June 30, 2014

JERUSALEM, Israel,— The Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu voiced support for Kurdish statehood on Sunday, taking a position that appeared to clash with the U.S. preference to keep sectarian war-torn Iraq united.

Netanyahu asked the international community on Sunday to support Jordan in the fight against "Islamic extremism" and to back the independence of Iraq's Kurds.

"We need to support efforts by the international community to strengthen Jordan and support the aspirations of the Kurds for independence," Netanyahu said in a speech to the Institute of National Security Studies think-tank in Tel Aviv.

His remarks follow reports in Israeli media that officials in Tel Aviv fear al-Qaeda linked Islamic-jihadists from the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham ISIS may extend their control to areas of Jordan after seizing parts of Iraq in recent weeks.

The Kurds have seized on recent sectarian chaos in Iraq to expand their autonomous northern territory to include Kirkuk,www.Ekurd.net which sits on vast oil deposits that could make the independent state many dream of economically viable.

But Iraqi Kurds, who have ethnic compatriots in Iran, Turkey and Syria, have hesitated to declare full independence, one reason being the feared response of neighboring countries.

LeBrok
30-06-14, 23:14
Sitting atop an ocean of newly conquered oil fields and emboldened by the breakdown of the Iraqi state, Kurdish President Masoud Barzani declared that the Kurds would not cede their newly conquered territory. "We cannot remain hostages for the unknown … The time is here for the Kurdistan people to determine their future," he said.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140628-iraq-kurds-independence-kurdistan-sunni-baghdad#

LeBrok
09-08-14, 01:07
Seams like ISIS misplaced few christian communities around Kurdistan. Do you think US will start acting now with bombings of ISIS positions? They already are flowing food and medical supplies to these communities.
I'm sure drones are in the air above this area.

LeBrok
09-08-14, 19:17
Seams like ISIS misplaced few christian communities around Kurdistan. Do you think US will start acting now with bombings of ISIS positions? They already are flowing food and medical supplies to these communities.
I'm sure drones are in the air above this area.
Am I a prophet or what? :grin:
I heard the news about bombing of ISIS weaponry this morning, Canadian morning.

Maleth
09-08-14, 22:38
Am I a prophet or what? :grin:
I heard the news about bombing of ISIS weaponry this morning, Canadian morning.

If not mistaken first bombing of ISIS's posts (+ food supplies) where reported yesterday according to CNN. (or is it the time differnce?) :) I think today they got the first footage.

Maleth
09-08-14, 22:39
Yep I agree Kurds should have their own state.

LeBrok
09-08-14, 22:48
If not mistaken first bombing of ISIS's posts (+ food supplies) where reported yesterday according to CNN. (or is it the time differnce?) :) I think today they got the first footage.
Last night BBC only mentioned food drops for Yazigi and some christian groups. Iraqi government is not in position to win against ISIS, so I thought that US will need to act now. I think they will shield Kurdistan from any heavy military action of ISIS. I wonder if EU will help too. There was a heavy manifestation of Kurds in Germany today to ramp up the support.

PS. I thought I've seen Alan interviewed by BBC during manifestation. ;)

Alan
09-08-14, 23:20
Wether Turkey or Iran like it or notl. An Independent Kurdistan is inevantable.

AgnusDei
10-08-14, 00:40
I don't understand how people cannot understand that a Kurdish state is a far-fetched possibility. This would threaten the territorial integrity of a U.S. ally and a NATO member,namely, Turkey .
It will also be a threat to Iran(Russia's ally), not to mention that we live in a post-WWII world where it is almost impossible to create a new state especially in the Middle East.

Yetos
10-08-14, 00:59
The Ukrainian incident set a precedent in territorial integrity and sovereignty. The US and world powers will not allow the disintegration of Iraq into 3 separate independent regions. The US will send drones and military support (money and weapons) to fight off Sunni insurgents and protect Baghdad. It's going to turn into another bloody conflict. The Sunni insurgents are viewed like terrorists, and wont be treated like a civil war.

When and If your superpowers send money and weapons, IS already has 300 000 000 E, enough to buy even a fleet, or nuclear bomb,

I hope Kurds will not play the old game, as mercenairies and divided to many warlords, that can create a frontier, until the situation be under a plan,
the spasmodic acts of Obama bombing IS is nothing,

I think the whole case is connected somehow with Ukraine, call it a feeling, or black move, white's turn in chess game,
Even the entrance of israel in Gaza these days to secure the underneath passages (tunnels) is connected,
Something big is about to happened there,
300 000 000 E are a lot of money in hands of Foundamentalists

albanopolis
10-08-14, 02:56
Wether Turkey or Iran like it or notl. An Independent Kurdistan is inevantable.

I am for Kurdish independence, even though I think Kurds have not tried enough to get it. (I might be wrong, but this is my opinion),.
The problem is if the American friends are in mood to give you independence.
Without their support it remains a beautiful dream.

Alan
10-08-14, 04:56
I don't understand how people cannot understand that a Kurdish state is a far-fetched possibility. This would threaten the territorial integrity of a U.S. ally and a NATO member,namely, Turkey .
It will also be a threat to Iran(Russia's ally), not to mention that we live in a post-WWII world where it is almost impossible to create a new state especially in the Middle East.

You dont seem to understand or have not much knowledge about this subject.Turkey just recently gave it's support to a Kurdish state.


June 30, 2014

ANKARA,— Turkey's Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Deputy Chairman Hüseyin Çelik has indicated that Turkey will recognize a Kurdish state in northern Iraq if the crisis-stricken country is divided, the Financial Times reported on Saturday.

“If Iraq is divided and it is inevitable, [the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG)] are our brothers. … Unfortunately, the situation in Iraq is not good and it looks like it is going to be divided,” Çelik said in his remarks to the Financial Times.

He also reportedly said that although an independent Kurdish state was previously a reason for war for Turkey, no one has the right to say so now.

Yetos
10-08-14, 08:31
You dont seem to understand or have not much knowledge about this subject.Turkey just recently gave it's support to a Kurdish state.

Turkey has its own big problems now, and elections, in turkey kemalists Army and Islamic politicians etc have different opinions,
they have the 2nd biggest army in Nato, their politics is always a spell, a puzzle.
Although its a sign, as some reformations that have been done about Kurdish language last decades,
yet believe me will not allow a huge and modern army to be build next to her,

LeBrok
10-08-14, 10:25
I see the stars lining up for Kurdistan.

AgnusDei
10-08-14, 13:51
You dont seem to understand or have not much knowledge about this subject.Turkey just recently gave it's support to a Kurdish state.

Well, there is a difference between an official statement and a random political party statement.

A Kurdish state would be a bothersome issue for Turkey because its Kurdish population would do anything to join the newly formed,oil-rich, Kurdistan.

Alan
11-08-14, 00:10
Well, there is a difference between an official statement and a random political party statement.

A Kurdish state would be a bothersome issue for Turkey because its Kurdish population would do anything to join the newly formed,oil-rich, Kurdistan.


The statement came from the official Turkish foreign minister who belongs to the ruling Party. And similar statements came from other high positions. Even if Turkey didn't accept in the long run they wouldn't be able to halt this. So it is better in Turkish interests to accept and have economic ties, instead of stubbornly stand in the way.

LeBrok
11-08-14, 01:14
The statement came from the official Turkish foreign minister who belongs to the ruling Party. And similar statements came from other high positions. Even if Turkey didn't accept in the long run they wouldn't be able to halt this. So it is better in Turkish interests to accept and have economic ties, instead of stubbornly stand in the way.
Exactly. I think Turkey is more tolerant to Kurds these days. There is even candidate in recent presidential election in Turkey of Kurdish ethnicity!

LeBrok
11-08-14, 01:33
Referendum is coming soon.

There was an amazing news today. Kurds could seize the moment and create their own country on a spot with one decree of government or military order. There is no one in position to go against their will at the moment especially when they are allies with US and European Union (french diplomats just arrived in Arbil). But listen to this, the Kurdish government, chose to go with referendum and let people decide if they want an independent country. I'm sure it will be the landslide victory for independent Kurdistan, but how righteous of Kurds to ask the question to the public, even though there was not much need.
I have a feeling that referendum is more about setting the Kurdistan borders with Iraq, than if there should be Kurdistan. Wherever majority of Kurds live their land will be included in new country.
I'm sure they will ask for international observers to make the process valid and transparent by international standards.

LeBrok
12-08-14, 03:56
Finally Obama will send serious military weapons to Kurdistan directly. So far Kurds are fighting with AK-47, because 200 million dollar worth of military equipment never left Baghdad. It is most likely lining up pockets of Maliki and his cronies.

LeBrok
20-08-14, 04:56
I think a little delay in Free Kurdistan is about to happen. Iraq forces, got brave and got their act together sheltered by US Air Force, are pushing forward and are in numbers around Kurdistan. As long as they show some vitality as a organized nation US won't support Kurds in their quest for independence. From US perspective on united and strong Iraq is a better equalizer and opposition to Iran and Islamic fanatics in the area.
As "noble" goal as it seams, it is unwise pushing this agenda any longer in my opinion. Iraq in old borders is pretty much unsustainable and finished forever. Besides, Shia part of Iraq is already strongly pro Iranian, to the degree that Iran is allowed to pump Iraq's oil.
Anyway Kurds will not get strong support of US in creation of Kurdistan, and Kurds might elect to wait for a better moment in the future. For example when corruption will bring Iraq down some more or Shiats ruling the country decide to go with theocracy instead of democracy. However when Kurds strongly will proceed with referendum about independence US will not react much.

Alan
20-08-14, 18:58
I think a little delay in Free Kurdistan is about to happen. Iraq forces, got brave and got their act together sheltered by US Air Force, are pushing forward and are in numbers around Kurdistan..

Thats not really true. Let me honest with you. Despite the current news "Kurdish forces and Iraqi Army" liberating the Mosul Dam, it was nothing more than Kurdish forces doing it. It's basically your usual Media agenda of trying to show a non existing "unity" between Peshmerga and Iraqi Army.

Let me tell you why. Those "Iraqi forces" who allegedly fought side by side with Peshmerga by taking back tha dam are actually the Golden Brigade which is a Kurdish-Arab mixed division of the Iraqi Army led by the Kurdish General Fazil Berwari.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyp_Xv3KivA

With other words the only still functioning Iraqi Division is Kurdish.


The Iraqi Army is busy with trying to retake Tikrit which they failed to gain control of. It's kind of a shame that the Iraqi Army is getting some fame for the work of the Peshmerga just to "praise" some non existing unity in Iraq.

In non of the fights in the North has the Iraqi Army played any role. From the liberation of Sinjar to the liberation of Mosul Dam. In fact the Kurdish forces of Syria and the PKK have played a bigger role than the Iraqi Army.

But I agree Independence currently probably won't happen but everything speaks for an Confederation. I hope the new Iraqi government won't be that bad as the former.

Sile
20-08-14, 20:59
I think a little delay in Free Kurdistan is about to happen. Iraq forces, got brave and got their act together sheltered by US Air Force, are pushing forward and are in numbers around Kurdistan. As long as they show some vitality as a organized nation US won't support Kurds in their quest for independence. From US perspective on united and strong Iraq is a better equalizer and opposition to Iran and Islamic fanatics in the area.
As "noble" goal as it seams, it is unwise pushing this agenda any longer in my opinion. Iraq in old borders is pretty much unsustainable and finished forever. Besides, Shia part of Iraq is already strongly pro Iranian, to the degree that Iran is allowed to pump Iraq's oil.
Anyway Kurds will not get strong support of US in creation of Kurdistan, and Kurds might elect to wait for a better moment in the future. For example when corruption will bring Iraq down some more or Shiats ruling the country decide to go with theocracy instead of democracy. However when Kurds strongly will proceed with referendum about independence US will not react much.

USA are most likely falsely promising a Kurdish nation to the Kurds so they can get the Kurds to fight against these IsIs .

A promise from the USA in regards to this matter is utterly useless, do you actually think , turkey, syria, irag and iran will give up any land for a kurdish nation!............what are some of you people taking!

Alan
20-08-14, 21:24
USA are most likely falsely promising a Kurdish nation to the Kurds so they can get the Kurds to fight against these IsIs .

A promise from the USA in regards to this matter is utterly useless, do you actually think , turkey, syria, irag and iran will give up any land for a kurdish nation!............what are some of you people taking!

Iraq nor Syria have any power to say a word anymore. Turkish and Iranian Kurdistan wasn't even on the debate. We are merely talking here about Iraqi Kurdistan. We do not trust on promises of anyone we are taking our own steps. If their is one thing we have learned from our history it is not to rely too much on other countries.

albanopolis
21-08-14, 02:00
Iraq nor Syria have any power to say a word anymore. Turkish and Iranian Kurdistan wasn't even on the debate. We are merely talking here about Iraqi Kurdistan. We do not trust on promises of anyone we are taking our own steps. If their is one thing we have learned from our history it is not to rely too much on other countries.

Iraq is an internationally recognized state. As such living Iraq is not easy unless you are supported by other countries. We are not saying Kurdistan does not deserve independence. The problem is the minute you proclaim your state you have to be recognized by major word countries. There is not such a movement right now. The major power who can guarantee it is USA. Then the border becomes an issue. There will be fight over the border. I don't see any push for Kurdish independence. Turkey has a big say since it is a Nato member.
Myself I am a supporter of Kurdish state.

LeBrok
21-08-14, 04:14
USA are most likely falsely promising a Kurdish nation to the Kurds so they can get the Kurds to fight against these IsIs . USA is supporting united Iraq more than free Kurdistan.


A promise from the USA in regards to this matter is utterly useless, do you actually think , turkey, syria, irag and iran will give up any land for a kurdish nation!............what are some of you people taking!
As Alan mentioned Syria and Iraq are failed states and have much bigger problems to address at the moment. In current form don't have enough arm forces to engage in long fight with Kruds. We are talking now basically about only part of Iraq becoming Kurdistan. Parts of Iran or Turkey wouldn't be affected. In this case there is no reason for Iran or Turkey to cross borders to other country to fight Kurds.

It is very important, not to lose too much blood when struggle is impossible. It is much easier to wait for the right moment to get your freedom. Like right now when Syria and Iraq is in shambles. There will be a good time in the future to increase Kurdistan when some revolution sweeps through Iran and current theocracy will fall. And hopefully in couple of decades Turkey will be more democratic and libertarian and will allow referendum among their Kurdish population to split. Who knows?

LeBrok
21-08-14, 04:17
Iraq is an internationally recognized state. So was USSR and Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Things change.

Alan
21-08-14, 08:34
Iraq is an internationally recognized state. As such living Iraq is not easy unless you are supported by other countries. We are not saying Kurdistan does not deserve independence. The problem is the minute you proclaim your state you have to be recognized by major word countries. There is not such a movement right now. The major power who can guarantee it is USA. Then the border becomes an issue. There will be fight over the border. I don't see any push for Kurdish independence. Turkey has a big say since it is a Nato member.
Myself I am a supporter of Kurdish state.

For Gods sake Iraq is dead. It has failed to protect it's citizens in most neaded time and Kurdistan had to do it for Iraq. If Kurdistan decided tommorow to declare independence what could Iraq do? send their Iraqi Army?

We already have the support of most important countries. They told the PM IF we decide to decide independence no one will put stones in our way but of course they say they would prefer a "unified Iraq". EVEN Turkey has changed it's tone.

Yetos
21-08-14, 13:56
For Gods sake Iraq is dead. It has failed to protect it's citizens in most neaded time and Kurdistan had to do it for Iraq. If Kurdistan decided tommorow to declare independence what could Iraq do? send their Iraqi Army?

We already have the support of most important countries. They told the PM IF we decide to decide independence no one will put stones in our way but of course they say they would prefer a "unified Iraq". EVEN Turkey has changed it's tone.

He who controls Mossoul, can be powerfull,
in the begining do not wait much, an autonomous area with supervisors,
bargains on oil prices, and military bases, that is for start, and you know it,
but according the behavior in time, that might chance and bring the reality of the dream, the new era,
patience and good political desicions is the key,

albanopolis
21-08-14, 16:24
So was USSR and Deutsche Demokratische Republik. Things change.
I am not suggesting its impossible. There has to be international support for such movements. I see a rush to arm Kurds from European powers at the moment, but I am not sure if that is a sign of independence coming. Kurds can get independence if they do the right movements with their oil fields.

LeBrok
22-08-14, 01:01
I am not suggesting its impossible. There has to be international support for such movements. I see a rush to arm Kurds from European powers at the moment, but I am not sure if that is a sign of independence coming. Kurds can get independence if they do the right movements with their oil fields.
Oil fields will definitely help and allow them to buy their own weapons when they have their own state.

Alan
22-08-14, 15:23
Kurdish Commander Says Baghdad Blocking Foreign Arms to Peshmerga


On the frontlines, Peshmerga commanders say their men are still fighting with outdated equipment. AP file photo.

KHAZIR, Iraq – Peshmerga commanders on the frontlines of the war with the Islamic State armies say their men have received none of the weapons delivered by foreign governments, blaming interference by Baghdad.


“We have not had the delivery of weapons from our international partners,” said Rowsch Shaways, Iraq’s outgoing deputy prime minister, who is a Kurd and serves as a commander of Kurdish forces leading an offensive toward Mosul.


“Right now Baghdad is the reason why this hasn’t happened,” Shaways told Rudaw from a command center southeast of Mosul, only a kilometer from enemy lines.


At another base near Gwar, General Sirwan Barzani also lamented that his division has “seen nothing of the new weapons.”


The United States, France, Albania, Italy, Germany and Britain have expressed their willingness to provide military aid to the autonomous Kurds in the fight against the Islamic State (IS/formerly ISIS).


Yet, each has sought to coordinate the process through Baghdad, whose relations with the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) remain severely strained. Much of the tension has been blamed on Nouri al-Maliki, who was recently forced down from seeking a third term as prime minister.


Since the IS began a rout of the Iraqi army in June, the Peshmerga have emerged as the only local force standing up to the militants.


Over the past several weeks, Kurdish military officials have said their forces had new, heavy weapons, without revealing their origins or other details. But the comments by commanders did not confirm that.


On the frontlines, several officers explained they were making progress in the fight against IS, but Shaways remained adamant that they need American and European weapons.


Kurdish leaders acknowledge an arms upgrade will be necessary to face the well-armed and disciplined insurgent force without suffering heavy casualties, since a series of difficult challenges, such as the recapture of Mosul, still lie ahead.


Asked if he believed the delivery would happen soon, Shaways struggled to contain his concern: “If (Baghdad) wants to defeat ISIS ---- our common enemy -- then they will make sure we get the weapons as soon as possible,” he said.


Although Iraqi security forces and the Peshmerga cooperated in the recapture of the strategic Mosul Dam this week, Baghdad has been reluctant to take any measures that would further strengthen the Kurdish military, a formidable force despite its outdated equipment.


Kurdish parties are working with Prime Minister-designate Haider al-Abadi to form a government, but there is no guarantee that the new administration will be able to reverse the disastrous course set by Maliki and prevent the further disintegration of Iraq.


Cooperation on pressing matters of national security, such as the fight against IS, remains the most basic stress-test of Erbil’s current relationship with Baghdad, lending the arms delivery a heightened importance.



That happens if Western states still insist on "permission" from Baghdad, which failed to secure it's citizens for weapon delivery. As if any of those countries insisted on Gaddafi permission to arm the "rebels". Baghdad doesn't care about civilian lives. Iraqis are like this better get killed by IS than give Kurds any power. They are not able to defend themselves and block the only people ready to do it.


Now you guys understand why we don't want anything to do with Iraqi cowards and why this state is a complete fail?

Sunni Arabs are wahabi, Shia Arabs are the slaves of Iran.

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/22082014

LeBrok
22-08-14, 17:38
That happens if Western states still insist on "permission" from Baghdad, which failed to secure it's citizens for weapon delivery. As if any of those countries insisted on Gaddafi permission to arm the "rebels". Baghdad doesn't care about civilian lives. Iraqis are like this better get killed by IS than give Kurds any power. They are not able to defend themselves and block the only people ready to do it.


Now you guys understand why we don't want anything to do with Iraqi cowards and why this state is a complete fail?

Sunni Arabs are wahabi, Shia Arabs are the slaves of Iran.

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/22082014

What beats me is why US government is so slow to admit that Shia controlled Iraq is already in Iranian influence sphere, probably bordering on being Iranian satellite ally. One explanation that comes to mind is that admitting it would show to the world that rebuilding post Saddam Iraq was a complete fiasco, a failure on US record.
Is it a sign of hopes of US government still can't give up, to have a strong ally so close to Iran? Is it a sign of bureaucracy, always slow to adopt to quick geopolitical changes? At this point pouring any resources into sustaining Iraq in it's old form is a waste of good money and precious time.

If it comes to foreign US politics, it fails miserable in understanding where real friends are, or missing importance in finding true friends. US picks friends based on strategic location or anyone with same foe as US. Well, it makes sense and it works on many occasions. However picking friends and caring for them based on ordinary people sentiments might get you a true friend, friend one can count on. Cherishing and building on existing sentiments can get you a friend for ever.
For me, there is much more sense to help Kurds, shelter them and help them grow economically, than pay billions to Shia to be a friend. With Kurds you will get a friend because they want to be your friend in first place, with Shia you just help the future enemy to grow strong, because they don't want to be your friend to start with.

The good example of big screwups was to try making a friend out of Pakistan, where for 10 billion military aid a year US got constant supply of Taliban fighters into Afghanistan and hiding Osama Bin Laden. Another one even bigger, was not finishing Saddam in first war, the Desert Storm. I haven't seen soldiers surrounding so fast as Saddam Hussein's army. Iraqis wanted to be liberated, hated Saddam, and trusted US and the West and they felt being liberated. Ordinary Iraqis sentiments were pro American back then. But instead of embracing the friendship of ordinary Iraqis, they were given back to Saddam to enjoy 10 more years of "beloved" leader. This was the treachery of worst kind, giving rise of mistrust and hatred towards the West, pro Al Qaeda sentiments. Not mentioning "brilliance" of younger Bush in all of this. It is a great example of how to alienate a friend.

I hope that similar scenario won't repeat itself with Kurdistan this time. We are dealing with pro Western and very tolerant population, and it is a rarity in this region. Not helping them in the name of some geopolitical strategy would be a regrettable crime.

Let's embrace friends in need.

LeBrok
22-08-14, 19:29
@Yetos
Do you remember our conversation how difficult is to define who is enemy and who is an ally sometimes?
We have one of these extraordinary situation happening right now. Coalition against Islamic State (IS) will include Turkey, Kurds, Iran, US, Shia Iraqi, all fighting on same side against IS. Many former and present enemies in the group. Can one be a friend and enemy at the same time?

Yetos
22-08-14, 20:49
@Yetos
Do you remember our conversation how difficult is to define who is enemy and who is an ally sometimes?
We have one of these extraordinary situation happening right now. Coalition against Islamic State (IS) will include Turkey, Kurds, Iran, US, Shia Iraqi, all fighting on same side against IS. Many former and present enemies in the group. Can one be a friend and enemy at the same time?

I do not know, but cooperation against foundamendal stupidity is quite a thing,
overpass older hostilities, against modern terror is something.
IS as turned and evolute after Syrria, is something inhuman.

Alan
22-08-14, 22:24
What beats me is why US government is so slow to admit that Shia controlled Iraq is already in Iranian influence sphere, probably bordering on being Iranian satellite ally. One explanation that comes to mind is that admitting it would show to the world that rebuilding post Saddam Iraq was a complete fiasco, a failure on US record. an


Iraq since it's first establishment was a complete failure. The Iraqi war has changed nothing about this. Before the war hundreds of thousand peoples died and after the war hundreds of thousands die. Trying to push this mess on the Iraqi war is simplitistc and just an attempt to not accept that Iraq as one centralized state can't exist. The only thing which could "save" Iraq is a lose confederation for now

LeBrok
22-08-14, 23:33
Iraq since it's first establishment was a complete failure. The Iraqi war has changed nothing about this. Before the war hundreds of thousand peoples died and after the war hundreds of thousands die. Trying to push this mess on the Iraqi war is simplitistc and just an attempt to not accept that Iraq as one centralized state can't exist. The only thing which could "save" Iraq is a lose confederation
Yes, we can blame British and French empires and the way they created rather artificial states when they left area. I'm not familiar with pre colonial history of the region so I can't comment any further. I think they belonged to Otoman Empire for few hundred years before that.
Perhaps British had romantic dream to recreate Babilonia, excited by their excavations in the region?

Alan
23-08-14, 00:03
Yes, we can blame British and French empires and the way they created rather artificial states when they left area. I'm not familiar with pre colonial history of the region so I can't comment any further. I think they belonged to Otoman Empire for few hundred years before that.
Perhaps British had romantic dream to recreate Babilonia, excited by their excavations in the region?

I remember maps of pre colonial Iraq. Even on them Kurdistan never belonged to this region. It was simply attached to it because of it's oil. The Ottoman Empire included many regions and as any Empire on this world it had to come to an end one day. The problem does not lie here, contrary. The Problem lies on the wrongly drawn borders and states. States should be drawn according to Ethn-linguistic identity and political loyalities. putting Shia and Sunni Arabs who historically oppose each other and have different loyalities and Kurds who not only have different views but additionally belong to a different ethnicity, was so false as it could be. Tensions are preinstalled and just a matter of time.

Aberdeen
23-08-14, 20:34
I remember maps of pre colonial Iraq. Even on them Kurdistan never belonged to this region. It was simply attached to it because of it's oil. The Ottoman Empire included many regions and as any Empire on this world it had to come to an end one day. The problem does not lie here, contrary. The Problem lies on the wrongly drawn borders and states. States should be drawn according to Ethn-linguistic identity and political loyalities. putting Shia and Sunni Arabs who historically oppose each other and have different loyalities and Kurds who not only have different views but additionally belong to a different ethnicity, was so false as it could be. Tensions are preinstalled and just a matter of time.

When the Americans first invaded Iraq, a friend of mine (a former oil company employee) predicted that the Americans would win the war but lose the peace, and would eventually have to withdraw, resulting in a three way battle between Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis (with the Sunnis being supported by Saudi Arabia), and religious minorities would be caught in the middle and exterminated. Unfortunately, he was right, except for Kurds apparently being a little more accommodating to minorities than the other two groups. One of the predictions my friend made was that Saudi Arabia would eventually annex the Sunni Triangle of Iraq. Time will tell whether that prediction will come true.

LeBrok
23-08-14, 21:43
When the Americans first invaded Iraq, a friend of mine (a former oil company employee) predicted that the Americans would win the war but lose the peace, and would eventually have to withdraw, resulting in a three way battle between Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis (with the Sunnis being supported by Saudi Arabia), and religious minorities would be caught in the middle and exterminated. Unfortunately, he was right, except for Kurds apparently being a little more accommodating to minorities than the other two groups.
I advocated splitting Iraq into 3 independent countries right after the war too, along existing and dominating religious and ethnic divisions. I couldn't see Sunni and Shia living in peace under one roof, without strong dictatorial oppressive regime.


One of the predictions my friend made was that Saudi Arabia would eventually annex the Sunni Triangle of Iraq. Time will tell whether that prediction will come true.
I don't think that leaders of IS would want to give up power to Saudis. Saudis are hereditary royals and aristocrats in some sort of feudal settings. IS are anti establishment rebels grown from religious extremist movement. They might have similar ideological goal of Sunni Islam ruling the region, but they will be strongly at odds with each other who runs the show. At the end of a day Saudi royals will be very afraid of IS rebels bringing their revolution to Saudi Arabia to dispose monarchy. Establishing some sort of Iranian type theocracy there, with ruling clerics over civil government.
Saudis might be happy that their form of religion is gaining power and control over territory, but this might be it. They will be happy when IS stays in its borders, being friendly ally.

Yetos
24-08-14, 05:20
I do not know about Saudis,
I don't even believe a Saudi is fighting for IS,

I believe that the one who should be afraid is Europe, USA Australia etc etc.

over 120 000 soldiers count IS and is equiped with fine modern guns US leave behind,
from them a good number are not even lovals,
in IS a good number of Europeans Asians Americans etc are fighting.
if they win, and don't die there, imagine them returning to Europe etc.

LeBrok
24-08-14, 05:27
I do not know about Saudis,
I don't even believe a Saudi is fighting for IS,

I believe that the one who should be afraid is Europe, USA Australia etc etc.

over 120 000 soldiers count IS and is equiped with fine modern guns US leave behind,
from them a good number are not even lovals,
in IS a good number of Europeans Asians Americans etc are fighting.
if they win, and don't die there, imagine them returning to Europe etc.

Interesting angle. Our european islamic extremists are fighting there. Hmmm, we have to make sure they fight there to death. ;)

albanopolis
24-08-14, 15:48
I do not know about Saudis,
I don't even believe a Saudi is fighting for IS,

I believe that the one who should be afraid is Europe, USA Australia etc etc.

over 120 000 soldiers count IS and is equiped with fine modern guns US leave behind,
from them a good number are not even lovals,
in IS a good number of Europeans Asians Americans etc are fighting.
if they win, and don't die there, imagine them returning to Europe etc.
It is believed that there are 12 000 foreign fighters in Iraq-Syria. From the Balkans alone could be about 500. They do pose a terrorism risk for the countries they come from. But most of them are identified and upon their return will be arrested. I know my country has infiltrated the group and identified the members,
Since they are very low IQ people they don't pose any existential risk.
Foreign fighters in Ukraine also are a great risk for host countries. I heard lately that a large group of Serbs have joined Russians and recruiting is going on in Greek churches to fight in the Russian side.
They equally pose a deadly threat for the countries of their origin.

LeBrok
25-08-14, 08:02
There are some reports that former officers of Saddam Hussein army work for ISIS now.

Yetos
25-08-14, 11:35
It is believed that there are 12 000 foreign fighters in Iraq-Syria. From the Balkans alone could be about 500. They do pose a terrorism risk for the countries they come from. But most of them are identified and upon their return will be arrested. I know my country has infiltrated the group and identified the members,
Since they are very low IQ people they don't pose any existential risk.
Foreign fighters in Ukraine also are a great risk for host countries. I heard lately that a large group of Serbs have joined Russians and recruiting is going on in Greek churches to fight in the Russian side.
They equally pose a deadly threat for the countries of their origin.

you like to post whatever,
LINK? ANY LINK?
or just rumors, and you seen it in TV?

Alan
25-08-14, 18:12
There are some reports that former officers of Saddam Hussein army work for ISIS now.

LeBrock ISIS in iraq = ex Baathist with support of sunni Arabs. Abu Bakir Baghdadi and Al Duri are both Baathists and leaders among IS in Iraq and Al Duri is a former commander of Saddam. This is not a war between IS vs Iraq government and Kurds. This is a war between Sunni Iraqis with support of IS vs Shia government and the Kurds.

LeBrok
03-09-14, 04:11
Britain is on fast track with new passport legislation, to make sure their border guards have ability to stop "wannabe" terrorists from going to join terrorists of IS. It is estimated that around 500 british citizens is fighting for IS.


CNN) -- British Prime Minister David Cameron called Monday for a new law to give police the temporary power to seize a passport in case a British citizen is suspected of trying to travel to support ISIS.
Cameron told lawmakers meeting in the House of Commons on Monday there were two gaps in Britain's fight against the threat of terror at home.
The first pertains to suspects traveling abroad, he said.
"Passports are not an automatic right," he said. "We will introduce specific and targeted legislation to fill this gap by providing the police with a temporary power to seize a passport at the border, during which time they will be able to investigate the individual concerned.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/europe/isis-uk-threat-level/

hope
03-09-14, 12:12
Britain is on fast track with new passport legislation, to make sure their border guards have ability to stop "wannabe" terrorists from going to join terrorists of IS. It is estimated that around 500 british citizens is fighting for IS.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/europe/isis-uk-threat-level/
I absolutely agree with David Cameron on this one.

Angela
03-09-14, 17:01
I absolutely agree with David Cameron on this one.

My only hesitation about this is that if they remain in Britain, or the U.S., would that then mean that they spend their energies on committing terrorism at home? If they do take these measures, it seems to me that there would be pressure on the authorities to keep them under surveillance to prevent that, with all of the attendant civil rights and privacy concerns.

Certainly though, it is beyond me why non-citizens spouting these kinds of ideologies are not deported.

LeBrok
03-09-14, 17:40
My only hesitation about this is that if they remain in Britain, or the U.S., would that then mean that they spend their energies on committing terrorism at home? If they do take these measures, it seems to me that there would be pressure on the authorities to keep them under surveillance to prevent that, with all of the attendant civil rights and privacy concerns.

The situation right now with Islamic State is an interesting arrangement. We have many western citizens of radical Islam inclination, leaving our countries to fight and die abroad. It is not necessarily a terrible arrangement. It is if they voluntarily admit and sentence themselves for a death row.
Perhaps we should keep Islamic State alive as long as there are radicals coming to fight there.



Certainly though, it is beyond me why non-citizens spouting these kinds of ideologies are not deported. Exactly. We shouldn't be tolerant for intolerant people.
First order of a day shouldn't be to fight them on the ground, but going after radical teachings of some clerics and address radicalisation of kids in schools, Madrassa comes to mind.

Angela
03-09-14, 17:51
The situation right now with Islamic State is an interesting arrangement. We have many western citizens of radical Islam inclination, leaving our countries to fight and die abroad. It is not necessarily a terrible arrangement. It is if they voluntarily admit and sentence themselves for a death row.
Perhaps we should keep Islamic State alive as long as there are radicals coming to fight there.



I would never subscribe to that. It would mean abandoning all the Christians of the Middle East, the Yahidis, and anyone else who crosses them to a virtual holocaust. I don't know how to stop them. necessarily, but I certainly wouldn't support anything that helps to keep it alive.

Goga
03-09-14, 18:08
I'm an Ezdi Kurd. ISIS, Turkey And Islamist Kurds (Barzani) tried to genocide my people. The PKK came and saved my people and ruined the plans of Turkey & Islamist Kurds.

Arm the PKK and give the weapons to the real honest Kurds. Not the Islamist Kurds in South Kurdistan. Barzani and his clan are Islamists. His people & tribe are all traitors and have all the power in South Kurdistan. Those 300000 - 400000 traitors in South Kurdistan are destroying and hostage Kurdistan.

Give weapons to PKK and PKK will destroy Islam in the Middle East, Islamist Kurds and Islamo-fascist Turkey. Islamist Kurds are the biggest threat to Kurdistan. But there are not so much of them.

40 million the real hardcore secular Kurds will DESTROY Turkey, Islam and will send those Islamic Kurds to Arabia or Pakistan where they can practice their Taliban style Islam. Islamic Kurds are just a small minority in Kurdistan.

So ARM the PKK! PKK will cleanse the whole Middle East from Islamic scum!

As long as there is Islam in Kurdistan Kurdistan will never be free. First what Kurds should do is to destroy Islam in their homeland and deport Islamic Taliban traitors to Pakistan, Turkey and Arabistan.

Goga
03-09-14, 18:16
Btw, I'm 100 % sure that there will be a free independent Great Kurdistan. The real Kurds will destroy Islamo-fascist Turkey, Islamic Kurds and will send those Turks back to the Altai and Islamic Kurds to Pakistan. The REAL Kurds will be victorious and Kurdistan will be an Islam-free country like during our ancestors the Medes!

hope
03-09-14, 21:08
My only hesitation about this is that if they remain in Britain, or the U.S., would that then mean that they spend their energies on committing terrorism at home?
Well certain individuals have already committed such attacks here in Britain, sadly. I believe one of the measures David Cameron wishes to bring in, is closer observation of those suspected of perhaps having, sympathies, with certain groups who have threatened Britain.


Certainly though, it is beyond me why non-citizens spouting these kinds of ideologies are not deported.
I agree, but past attempts have proven a lenghty process. Perhaps this needs refreshed.

hope
03-09-14, 21:20
The situation right now with Islamic State is an interesting arrangement. We have many western citizens of radical Islam inclination, leaving our countries to fight and die abroad.
Many of those going out to join IS are it seems, also intent on returning and bringing the fight with them.
I back the new legislation David Cameron is passing. I think the measures are sensible and unfortunately, necessary. I hope they implement them fully and without delay.

Goga
03-09-14, 22:30
The West (the USA) and Israel created ISIS against Shia and Persian influence in the Middle East. But ISIS realised that it would never defeat Persia. Persia is way to powerful for ISIS, so ISIS attacked innocent non-armed non-Sunni Muslim civilians (women and children) in Kurdistan.

ISIS will NEVER defeat Persia. ISIS can't even defeat PKK, PKK doesn't even have advanced, heavy and modern weapons. With simple old AK-47,the PKK is destroying ISIS in Rojava (West Kurdistan) and are sending those Islamic monkeys straight to perdition. The Same PKK is destroying Turkic army in the mountains of Northern Kurdistan for more than 30 years. The so called powerful Turkic army can't defeat a few thousands Kurdish PKK warriors in Northern Kurdistan, let alone 50 million Kurds. I'm sure that the USA & Israel are underestimating Persia. To take Persia down, you need MUCH more than ISIS! To take Persia down you need the help of 50 million Kurds (PKK). With enough weapons PKK can defeat Islamo-fascist Turkey and Persia! Why? Because Kurds can fight and PKK is not fighting for Islam but for Great Kuridstan! Islam is the enemy of Israel and Islam is the enemy of Great Kurdistan!

So the only solution for the Middle East: Israel should arm the PKK and the PKK will defeat Islamo-fascist Turkish regime AND Shia Persian regime. If Kurdish warriors get modern heavy weapons they will destroy all Islamic anti-Israel regimes (Turkey, Persia, Arabs) in the Middle East.

The BEST ally (opportunity) for Israel is the PKK, secular Kurdish Aryan warriors who fight for the independent united Great Kurdistan.

LeBrok
05-09-14, 06:41
I would never subscribe to that. It would mean abandoning all the Christians of the Middle East, the Yahidis, and anyone else who crosses them to a virtual holocaust. I don't know how to stop them. necessarily, but I certainly wouldn't support anything that helps to keep it alive.
Of course this was a ridiculous idea that is never going to happen. Equal of big scale social engineering, and noly posted for entertainment purposes. :rolleyes2:

Regardless, soon we will hear conspiracy theorists claiming that ISIS was started by CIA and Western world in general, for exactly such purpose, lol.

LeBrok
05-09-14, 06:43
Did I hear today's new right on BBC? Some of the western radicals are disappointed with IS and want to come back home. The radicals are ridiculous.

Yetos
05-09-14, 09:16
Did I hear today's new right on BBC? Some of the western radicals are disappointed with IS and want to come back home. The radicals are ridiculous.

no we must leave them there.

Yetos
13-09-14, 04:56
by what i read today after Deutschland, France is about to give guns to Iraki Kurds and brave quantity.

semms like Iraq is going to be huge war,

on one hand IS with tenths of thousands Jihadists equiped with modern US guns from what US left behind
and one other hand Kurd rebels with European guns
and in the middle the old Iraq forces,

gush, nobody wants to stop the horror fast.
lets hope will not see it for long.

Alan
13-09-14, 08:16
by what i read today after Deutschland, France is about to give guns to Iraki Kurds and brave quantity.

semms like Iraq is going to be huge war,

on one hand IS with tenths of thousands Jihadists equiped with modern US guns from what US left behind
and one other hand Kurd rebels with European guns
and in the middle the old Iraq forces,

gush, nobody wants to stop the horror fast.
lets hope will not see it for long.

If the Iraqi army didn't abdondened their position none of this would have happened. Most of the weapons we got so far were light but hopefully we get some heavy once too. It is said that Obama is going to build an airbase in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Goga
23-09-14, 18:16
this post has been deleted by the original poster

Goga
23-09-14, 18:22
this post has been deleted by the original poster

Goga
23-09-14, 18:24
this post has been deleted by the original poster

Yetos
23-09-14, 21:33
it is more complicated Goga, much more

search this name,
Azedin Al Fourati, al Sousou

all Greek post writes about him,
seems like Jihadists return to Europe through Turkey and by Ahmad the ........ to Greece as illegal immigrants who lost their pappers,
if read his story, you will fall from clouds, or as Asterix feared, the sky will fall upon your head,

it is more more complicated.
he came with no pappers, left with a foreign passport, and enter Austria with another passport!!!!

Goga
23-09-14, 22:22
it is more complicated Goga, much more

search this name,
Azedin Al Fourati, al Sousou

all Greek post writes about him,
seems like Jihadists return to Europe through Turkey and by Ahmad the ........ to Greece as illegal immigrants who lost their pappers,
if read his story, you will fall from clouds, or as Asterix feared, the sky will fall upon your head,

it is more more complicated.
he came with no pappers, left with a foreign passport, and enter Austria with another passport!!!!The West is way too tolerant toward Muslims. The West wants to 'use' Islam against Russia, against China and reduce their power. But the West will not succeed. China is destroying Turkic Muslim Uyghur terrorists every day. The West is NOT going to break China (a great civilization of 10,000 years) or Russia with some retard low-IQ Muslim zombies/extremists. Muslims in the Western World have too much freedom. Europeans must destroy the mosques and kick out Muslim extremists and mullahs out of Europe. Otherwise this situation can escalate in the future. The West is playing with fire and it will get burned by fire. I hope that the Europeans are strong enough to not to convert into Islam. Otherwise, if this happens, I've to search for a new place to live.

Goga
23-09-14, 22:33
this post has been deleted by the original poster

DejaVu
23-09-14, 23:09
Snowden have already explained who is behind ISIS.
Just search snowden isis.
Cant tell you because eupedia will delete my info.

Alan
24-09-14, 00:09
Snowden have already explained who is behind ISIS.
Just search snowden isis.
Cant tell you because eupedia will delete my info.


Snowden never "explained" who is behind ISIS. It was Iranian sources who claimed Snowden said that. But not even Russian sources confirmed this nonsense. So how could Iranian news agencies know about something not even Russian once have heard?

@Goga you are beeing disrespectfull towards 80% of Kurdish population.

Goga
24-09-14, 00:32
this post has been deleted by the original poster

http://s3.postimg.org/67j219803/Kurd_Kurdi_Kurdistan.jpg

Garrick
24-09-14, 02:52
seems like Jihadists return to Europe through Turkey

It is interesting that there is Turkish link.

Turkey is a secular democratic state, it has made great economic and social progress.

It would be good that nobody longer thinks about former Ottoman Empire which, among other territories, held one part of Europe.

Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs filed the biggest victims during Ottoman rule in Europe, about 500 years.

These peoples had enormous pain and suffering with great sacrifices during 5 centuries as non-Muslims under Sharia law.

They could massively covert to Islam, as any another Balkan nations did who they became spearhead of Ottomans, and then it would be a lot more pressure on the peoples of North and probably much larger part of Europe would be islamized.

These brave peoples are true guardians and heroes of Europe, although the rest of Europe has very rarely spoke the words of praise.

Today how to blow some new retrograde winds.

Headlines:

Turkish PM Speech Stirs Controversy on Balkans


Erdogan wants Western Thrace with Thesaaloniki

http://www.protothema.gr/news-in-english/article/335607/erdogan-wants-eastern-thrace-with-thessaloniki/

Erdogan: 'Kosovo is Turkey'

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/10/erdogan-kosovo-turkey.html


Erdogan's statements for the Balkans that may cause reactions

http://www.balkaneu.com/erdogans-statements-balkans-reactions/

"Thrace has a special importance and meaning for us. Thrace is at same time, Thessaloniki, Komotini, Xanthi, Deliorman, Vardar, Kircaali, ad if we go further back in time, Thrace at the same time Skopje, Prizren, Sarajevo".

(Prime minister Erdogan talk about Balkan areas held by Ottoman empire and liberated by Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs).

etc

...

Is this invocation an a new Ottoman entry in the Balkans, Neo-Ottoman rule and Sharia law for Balkan non-muslims?

Maybe no or yes, but how these words can be understood?

ΠΑΝΑΞ
24-09-14, 15:27
I think also that "today's big problem is -Isis. The battle for us, is to give against fanaticism and poverty which gives birth naturally, together all balkans and with Turkey, which is drowning in the fishnet of its own foreign policy. I hope soon the Kurdish people to gain [email protected], ''in union we stand'', right, bright and clear!

Yetos
06-10-14, 20:28
the last news from middle east give Kombane or Ayn al-Arab, seems to be different than we think,

It seems we live either the madness, either we are all dreamers, either Obama is a Jihadist supporter, either the target is Assand and the kurds are victims,

Turkish Tanks have been photoed (It may be is a montage), No Airstrikes, full of tanks and heavy artillery the IS, no guns till now to Kurds, although promised a lot,

something silent is under the table there,

the last exchange of 180 Jihadists for 46 Turks prisoners took place,

some photoes, are not mine, they can be photo montage but I doupt,

http://twitter.com/No2ISIS/status/519081158902951937/photo/1

http://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/517524540109639680/photo/1

http://www.tribune.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/KOBANE-LIVE-630x400.jpg


I repeat, this are news, some might be fictional as in many cases, some not and can be truth,
truth is that no air strikes last days,
no guns to Kurds as promised, yet,
tanks and artillery in IS possesion,
strange playing roll by Turkey,

Yetos
08-10-14, 21:34
one post,

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/501454754502148097/ZIHbSNQy_normal.jpeg Emrullah İşler @emrullahisler (https://twitter.com/emrullahisler)
Follow (https://twitter.com/emrullahisler)
Elkaide, PKK, Elnusra ve IŞİD gibi terör örgütleri müslümanı müslümana kırdırmak için icat edilmiştir Ne yazık ki, yıllardır sonuç alıyorlar
2:26 PM - 8 Oct 2014 (https://twitter.com/emrullahisler/status/519810962472583168)

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and then silence,

respect to those who still think,

headcut is not torture !!!!!!!!

Ua'Ronain
11-10-14, 21:25
This all goes back to Turkey and ISIS and it is boiling over in the streets of Turkey to Europe as Turkish inaction to to adress a massacre in the making in Kobani as ISIS advances through the city after the 3 week siege. The fact that the outlawed PKK and thier allies in Syria the YPG have done more to stop ISIS than a NATO member country with the second largest standing army in NATO speaks volumes about the character of the Kurdish people and that perhaps we allied ourselves to the wrong people in the region as Turkey has consistently snubbed NATO and international pressure to stop a massacre on its doorstep as well as Turkeys history of not aiding NATO allies in military operations in the last 20 years. (outside of Libya where they had an interest in supporting the brotherhood allied opposition)

We live in a bizzaro world where our NATO ally does nothing to stop the most bloodthirsty terror organization in the middle east and those we call terrorists fight ISIS and have worked to protect minorities of every stripe. Even when we acted to strike ISIS because of the plight of the yazidis on Mt. Sinjar it was long after the YPG had moved from Syria to create a safe passage for those trapped on the mountain and escorted/protected thousands of them to safety before Washington lifted a finger. This Turkish inaction threatens to unravel the PKK peace process that was trying to put an end to the 30 year conflict in Turkey with the PKK.

But even as there is a growing media backing for the PKK, YPG and the KGR in Iraq western states at the highest level are refusing to support many of them because of the terrorist label and because of Turkeys billing as a NATO ally and friend in the region.

Just because the official stance has not changed does not mean that there has not been growing tension and friction between the United States and Turkey over the last decade that could indeed force a change in strategic thinking and lead to a reassessment of who really our our friends in the region.



http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/08102014 (Kurdish Media) Article on the repercussions of Turkish inaction to stop ISIS and how it could derail the peace process with the PKK (Kurdish media)

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3832834621001/is-turkey-really-a-us-ally/#sp=show-clips News Clip from right leaning fox news about Turkey and if they are really an ally (American media)

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/time-to-kick-turkey-out-of-nato-111734.html#.VDloURb0Uus Article from centrist Politico (American Media) About kicking Turkey out of nato and the many reasons for doing so.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/07/opinion/barfi-kurds-isis/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook Article from CNN a left leaning new source (American news)


There is an important and growing discussion in the United States being played out on the media about if Turkey is really an ally of the west and calls for Turkey to be kicked out of nato and this is important as Turkey is the main barrier to the creation of any independent Kurdish states outside of Iraq.

If anyone happens to follow the petitions on the white house website recently one of the mosy popular petitions is for the support of an Independent Kurdistan.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/support-kurdish-independence/wk7K9SSp (there is still no official responce from the President about this popular petition)

Sadly the whitehouse recently closed the petition that was for supporting removing the PKK as being listed as a terrorist organization but oddly left the petition open that was created about officialy arming YPG units in Syria that are fighting ISIS who happen to be allied with the outlawed Turkish PPK movement.

In related news is the lack of a responce to the most popular petition without a whitehouse responce is calling for listing the Muslim brotherhood as a terrorist organization. this is important because the current leadership in Turkey the Justice and Development Party (AKP)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/declare-muslim-brotherhood-organization-terrorist-group/zGxCQ55g



There has been movement in Europe for the removal of PKK on the terror list in governments as well. Some examples are....

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/10062014 (Kurdish media)

EU Turkey Civic Commission (EUTCC), an organization that monitors Turkey's compliance with rules for EU entry, supports removing the PKK from the terror list. Since 2004, it has organized 11 international conferences in the European Parliament, and PKK’s name on the terror list has been a topic each time.

Also mentioned in the article is that in 2008, The Luxembourg-based Court of First Instance decided that the group should be removed from the EU list, because it was illegal under EU law. The ruling changed nothing, and the PKK remained on the list.



The following are links to media sites that I do not know where they side on the political spectrum or what nation they are based in.

http://www.todayszaman.com/_west-mulling-removal-of-pkk-from-terrorist-group-despite-concerns_357204.html (unknown ideaology and origin)

http://www.worldbulletin.net/haber/121006/removing-pkk-from-terror-list-out-of-question-eu (unknown ideology and origin)

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2013/0710/Egypt-s-coup-shakes-Brotherhood-s-Islamic-partners-in-Turkey Article (Christian Media) **I am weary of this media organization so take everything with a grain of salt** Article about Turkeys links to the Muslim brotherhood government that for a short time ruled Egypt and how the AKP identify with them strongly.

Snippet taken directly from the above article: One sign of the close links between Ankara and Cairo is that the Morsi government chose to bypass Egypt’s official news media and struck a deal instead with Turkey’s state-run Anadolu News Agency to release all official statements in Egypt.

Another snippet from above article: Since Morsi’s fall, the Turkish news agency has live-streamed only pro-Morsi rallies. AKP officials have organized pro-Morsi rallies in Turkey, and some supporters have used Morsi’s photo on their Twitter account handles.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/perspective/alarabiya-studies/2013/10/14/Turkey-s-relationship-with-the-Muslim-Brotherhood.html (english language Al Arabiya Media) About Turkey defending the Muslim Brotherhood government of Morsi in Egypt. Included are allegations of supporting the brotherhood with activists and weapons. Also included was the news about the Turkish Intelligence officer Irshad Hoz who was arrested in Egypt. ,

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-welcome-seven-muslim-brotherhood-exiles-qatar-1465700 (UK Media) Article about Turkey accepting Muslim Brotherhood exiles

Ua'Ronain
11-10-14, 22:12
http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/10/09/violent-protests-kurdish-isis-supporters-erupt-streets-hamburg (Right Leaning American Media) Police in the northern German city of Hamburg say 14 people were injured overnight in clashes between Kurdish protesters and members of a hard-line Islamic movemen

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29530640 (BBC News UK Media) Article Snippet: 19 dead in Turkish Protests; Riot police used tear gas and water cannon in a number of towns and cities as the disturbances spread across the country, including Ankara and Istanbul. Curfews have now been imposed in several cities in south-eastern Turkey with large Kurdish populations. The unrest has spread to over 30 cities in Turkey.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-10/islamic-state-seizes-large-areas-of-syrian-town-despite-air-str/5803544 (Left leaning American Media ABC News) Linked to fill out more information such as: The violence has prompted curfews to be imposed in five south-eastern provinces, restrictions unseen since the height of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) war against Turkish forces in the 1990s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/08/world/middleeast/isis-syria-coalition-strikes.html?_r=0 (left leaning American Media the New York Times) Turkish Inaction on ISIS Advance Dismays the U.S.

http://www.voanews.com/content/voa-exclusive-turkish-troops-fire-on-kurdish-protesters/2480286.html (American media Voice of America) Turkish forces open fire on Syrian and Turkish Kurds. Snippet: The Syrian Kurdish protesters were joined in the open buffer zone by Kurds from Nusaybin on the Turkish side of the border. Kurds consider the two cities to be one with the border running down the middle of it.

The two groups joined together in pulling down the wire fences that separated their cities. Turkish sources claim the Syrian Kurds opened fire on the Yurkish Soldiers first but media present said there were no signs of guns among the protesters.

(that is right Turkey wont fire at ISIS but they will fire at Kurds attempting to get relief to kobani!)

And finally the most telling piece from the article is this: Friday, the U.N. envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, urged Turkey to let "volunteers" [Kurds] cross the border to reinforce Kurdish militias defending Kobani against Islamic State militants. He warned that 700 civilians who remain trapped in Kobani, plus about 12,000 gathered nearby, will most likely be "massacred" if the city falls to the Islamist.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday he will not give into street protesters demanding his government do more to protect Kurds.

LeBrok
11-10-14, 23:27
Very interesting, thanks Ua'Ronian.

Garrick
12-10-14, 00:58
Very interesting, thanks Ua'Ronian.

Key question is to whom Turkey supports.

Turkey Waits, Watches as ISIS Pushes Toward Border
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/turkey-waits-watches-isis-pushes-toward-border-n220401

ISIS, Turkey's tool for re-establishing caliphatehttp://www.wnd.com/2014/09/isis-turkeys-tool-for-re-establishing-caliphate/

Secret ISIS ally Turkey ‘welcomes’ Egypt Muslim Brotherhood figures who leave Qatarhttp://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/09/16/secret-isis-ally-turkey-welcomes-egypt-muslim-brotherhood-figures-who-leave-qatar/

Etc., who wants can finds many different sources.

Goga
12-10-14, 01:35
Turkye is NOTHING. Turkye is a puppet state of America. The US created ISIS, but Turks hijacked their plan and wanted to use ISIS for their own purposes, to kill the Kurds. This plan is backfiring at them. The US NEVER supported independent Great Kurdistan. PKK is still not accepted in the US. It's not in the US interest to have strong states in the Middle East. The US is against a strong Great Kurdistan. The biggest enemy of Kurdish state is the USA. The US is only after the Kurdish oil. What is happening in Kobani is all due to the US policy. The US NEVER supported the Kurdish race. That's why I'm not saying that the US betrayed Kurdish race, because Americans NEVER promised us anything. The positive thing is that 50 MILLION Kurds will destroy American interests in the Middle East. We Kurds will never forget what the US did to Kurds. As long as a Kurdish race exists we will always be allies of Russia. Together with Russia, Persia, China as long as Kurds and Kurdistan to exists we will fight the American plight. With help of Persia and Russia, 50 MILLION Kurds will destroy Turkye and the Turks. Kurdish oil will be for people of Kurdistan. We will sell it to Argentina, Brazil, China, India etc. of course with the help of Russia and Persia. As you know I was always a PAN-ARYANIST (pan-Iranist) and at last the real Aryans, the Kurds (Medes) and Persians will be united again. Persia, Kurdistan, Russia and China will be a VERY strong global alliance/voice against the American so called democracy, sorry I mean American plight: the imperialism!

Goga
12-10-14, 01:38
Erdogan is doing everything what the US is dictating to him. It's the US that fights Kurds in Rojava (Western Kurdistan). Erdogan is not a real smart fella, lol. With his low IQ he thought to outsmart the US and wanted to use ISIS for his own purposes. But his plans are backfiring at him. You shouldn't play games and use the Kurds for your own agenda. When you play with fire you must expect that you will burn by fire. And Erdogan, Istanbul, Ankara and the whole Turkye will BURN!

Ua'Ronain
12-10-14, 02:07
Goga, you need to calm down a bit. Turkey is not America's lap dog. They have not helped us in any major NATO conflicts in a combat role. We are not fighting the Kurds in Syria, we are attacking ISIS. There is a lot of anger in

the west with Turkey and who knows what will happen. But the best chances of Kurdistan becoming real would be a break up between the USA and Turkey. You then go off and spout about Persia being a friend of Kurdistan!!!! Are

you out of your mind!? Iran suppresses the Kurdish people in Iran... The Kurds biggest issue with freedom is NOT the USA but Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Iran and themselves from all the constant infighting!

You are such a bad represenative of the Kurdish people that I really do hope they ban you from these forums. or perhaps it is I that should look for a different forum that does not tolerate this kind of childish and uneducated

behabiour.

I really like the part about where you say Russia has been a friend of the Kurds! Have you ever heard of a history book?

You are just plain wrong about many things and it is obvious that you believe many conspiracy theories without trying to research them.

We did not create ISIS directly. But the USA along with many other states did play a part in the rise of ISIS.

But go ahead and spout your hate speech about everyone and drive people like myself who are sympathetic to the Kurdish cause away.

Goga
12-10-14, 02:20
I'm a Kurd. I'm for FREE independent Great Kurdistan. I'm Kurdistan and I'm PKK! PKK = FREE GREAT KURDISTAN! The US is the biggest threat/enemy of PKK! America is not and never was a friend of the real Kurds, the PKK. It's America that is waging a war against the Kurds/PKK! America created ISIS, not Turkye.
rest was deleted

Goga
12-10-14, 02:25
Once again, I'm not anti-America. It's America that is anti-Kurdistan, anti-Kurd and anti-PKK. What is happening in Rojava is an eye-opener! From now on we know who is our enemy and who is our ally. Russia, Persia are our allies. And we will never forget this! As long as Russia exists 50 million Kurds and Kurdistan should be happy to have such a great ally.

Ua'Ronain
12-10-14, 02:29
Once again, I'm not anti-America. It's America that is anti-Kurdistan, anti-Kurd and anti-PKK. What is happening in Rojava is an eye-opener! From now on we know who is our enemy and who is our ally. Russia, Persia are our allies. And we will never forget this! As long as Russia exists Kurds and Kurdistan should happy to have such a great ally.

For a Kurd you know surprisingly little about Kurdish politics with respect to iran (who you call persia) here let me copy and paste some news here for you to read... you can read right?

perhaps you can explain your lack of understanding of PJAK and claim to be PKK when PJAK is an OFFSHOOT of the PKK!

PJAK is part of the Koma Civaken Kurdistan (KCK - Kurdistan Democratic Confederation) headed by PKK General Murat Karayilan and is generally considered to be an integral part of its umbrella organization. The movement admits it

has relations with the PKK and recognizes imprisoned PKK leader Abdullah Ocalan as its own supreme leader and according to the U.S. Treasury Department, PJAK is controlled by the PKK and has Turkish Kurds

in its ranks.

As recently as 2008 there was a joint counter-terrorism effort between Turkey, Syria and Iran to target the PKK.... The syrian crisis in 2011 is what ended this joint operation.

You should look into the assassinations of Kurdish leaders at the hand of your friends the persians!

http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iran/23012014

BARCELONA, Spain – Among Kurdish groups fighting for greater rights from Middle Eastern governments, the Free Life Party of Kurdistan (PJAK) in Iran remains an anomaly: It is the only one still waging an armed struggle.


That may be because, while Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iraq have gained some rights or autonomy, in Iran they have made little progress: Iran’s Kurdish regions remain among the country’s poorest and least developed, and the

Islamic Republic executed Kurdish activists as recently as November.

“Iranian Kurds are profoundly repressed and have few opportunities for political or cultural expression,” noted Vera Eccarius-Kelly, a researcher on Kurdish Diaspora politics and professor of comparative politics at Siena College in New York state.


And a report from the humans rights watch for you to read as well...

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2009/01/08/iran-freedom-expression-and-association-kurdish-regions-0

Goga
12-10-14, 02:45
Americans don't recognise Kurds, Kurdistan and the PKK. Why should we Kurds go into war against Persia for Israel and the US? Nobody is going to use Kurds for their own purposes ever again. Those times are gone! Americans and other enemies tried to wage a distance between Kurds and Persians. They tried to make Kurds and Persians enemies of each other. While in reality Persians are our 'racial' & ethnic brothers. Kurds and Persians do belong to the same race. We are both 'Iranic'. I would rather become a Persian than an Arab or a Turk. At least Persian and Kurdish language have the same roots. The only thing I don't like about Persians is that they’re Muslims (Shia). But it's ok, I’m sure that that foreign Arab religion will become less and less important in Persia and Kurdistan as time goes by. Btw, we're witnessing the beginning of the World War 3. Russia and Persia will never let Assad go. If Assad is overthrown, Russia will make an entry in the conflict in the Middle East. Russia supports the PKK! Russia and Persia will gladly support the Kurds (PKK) against the Turkye. Russia and Persia NEVER liked the Turks. And when Russia makes it entry it will be too late and the gates of hell will be opened, not only in the Middle East, but EVERYWHERE! We're at the beginning of the WW3 !!!

Diocletian
12-10-14, 03:33
This all goes back to Turkey and ISIS and it is boiling over in the streets of Turkey to Europe as Turkish inaction to to adress a massacre in the making in Kobani as ISIS advances through the city after the 3 week siege. The fact that the outlawed PKK and thier allies in Syria the YPG have done more to stop ISIS than a NATO member country with the second largest standing army in NATO speaks volumes about the character of the Kurdish people and that perhaps we allied ourselves to the wrong people in the region as Turkey has consistently snubbed NATO and international pressure to stop a massacre on its doorstep as well as Turkeys history of not aiding NATO allies in military operations in the last 20 years. (outside of Libya where they had an interest in supporting the brotherhood allied opposition)

Why do you expect Turkey to intervene? Turkey is not responsible for the existence of IS, but you are. It is your fault, that's what happens when you aid Taliban against commies in Afghanistan, and bring democracy to a stable geography under control. You overthrew Gaddafi, who had done great many things for his country, and then you supported Muslim Brotherhood. Free Syrian Army and ISIS were radical Islamist offshoots in the region, who fought together at the time against Assad. You supported them too. Your main aim was to have threats against Iran, Assad and Russia. Turkish foreign policy was no more than what a "NATO ally" would do. Now, IS got out of control. Turkey's national interests are, primarily, in overthrowing Assad and dissolution of PKK. So, as an "ally", you are not really eager to help Turkey get rid of Assad. I appreciate that, though. Assad should not be overthrown. Otherwise, there will be no one to watch over Alawites in the region.

Besides, in the last 20 years, you didn't help us deal with PKK, since Kurds have been quite employable for you.


We live in a bizzaro world where our NATO ally does nothing to stop the most bloodthirsty terror organization in the middle east and those we call terrorists fight ISIS and have worked to protect minorities of every stripe.

Turkey has no obligation to clean up after the US. Why won't you arrange a ground offensive, again?


Even when we acted to strike ISIS because of the plight of the yazidis on Mt. Sinjar it was long after the YPG had moved from Syria to create a safe passage for those trapped on the mountain and escorted/protected thousands of them to safety before Washington lifted a finger. This Turkish inaction threatens to unravel the PKK peace process that was trying to put an end to the 30 year conflict in Turkey with the PKK.

Are you aware that Syria is a country? How could Turkey trespass the borders of another country? That would mean war. It is silly to get in war with Syria and lose thousands of soldiers abroad.


But even as there is a growing media backing for the PKK, YPG and the KGR in Iraq western states at the highest level are refusing to support many of them because of the terrorist label and because of Turkeys billing as a NATO ally and friend in the region.

They are terrorists. Period. Only fools would support one terrorist group over another. Terrorists are fighting against each other, and you expect a NATO ally to intervene in the favor of the terrorist group that you hold dearer. Funny.


Just because the official stance has not changed does not mean that there has not been growing tension and friction between the United States and Turkey over the last decade that could indeed force a change in strategic thinking and lead to a reassessment of who really our our friends in the region.

Like I said, Kurd have been very employable for you. That's why you have always supported PKK under the counter. An independent Kurdistan would be a good ally for you. Maybe we should consider our relationship with Russia. :rolleyes2:


Key question is to whom Turkey supports.

Turkey is against Assad and PKK. Turkey has had helped ISIS along with the US in terms of ammunition and logistics. Maybe that would help you figure out whom Turkey supports.


Turkye is NOTHING. Turkye is a puppet state of America.

Just like Kurds are.


The US created ISIS, but Turks hijacked their plan and wanted to use ISIS for their own purposes, to kill the Kurds.

True.


This plan is backfiring at them. The US NEVER supported independent Great Kurdistan.

Wrong. They didn't support Turkey to get rid of PKK. And that means, they indirectly helped you.


PKK is still not accepted in the US. It's not in the US interest to have strong states in the Middle East. The US is against a strong Great Kurdistan. The biggest enemy of Kurdish state is the USA.

PKK is a terrorist, separatist, illegal organization. It would be shameful for the US to remove such an organization from their list of terrorist organizations.

If the US is your enemy, why do you expect help from them?

https://twitter.com/WestKurdistan/status/512146338067521536


The US is only after the Kurdish oil. What is happening in Kobani is all due to the US policy. The US NEVER supported the Kurdish race. That's why I'm not saying that the US betrayed Kurdish race, because Americans NEVER promised us anything.

It's very funny that you beg support from the US, and the anti-imperialist leftists in Turkey support the Kurdish cause. Human stupidity. :laughing:


The positive thing is that 50 MILLION Kurds will destroy American interests in the Middle East. We Kurds will never forget what the US did to Kurds. As long as a Kurdish race exists we will always be allies of Russia. Together with Russia, Persia, China as long as Kurds and Kurdistan to exists we will fight the American plight.

Don't be so hard on Americans, man. They think Turkey is no longer an ally in the region, and they hope to see the Kurds as allies. Now, you say this. Don't you predict how sad the consequences will be for them in the end? :laughing: Russia seems to be a great superpower to be friends with. US is not cool anymore.


With help of Persia and Russia, 50 MILLION Kurds will destroy Turkye and the Turks. Kurdish oil will be for people of Kurdistan. We will sell it to Argentina, Brazil, China, India etc. of course with the help of Russia and Persia. As you know I was always a PAN-ARYANIST (pan-Iranist) and at last the real Aryans, the Kurds (Medes) and Persians will be united again. Persia, Kurdistan, Russia and China will be a VERY strong global alliance/voice against the American so called democracy, sorry I mean American plight: the imperialism!

Let me tell you something, Russia ain't give a shit about Kurdistan. You owe a lot to the US. Your cause would never be this strong if the US and Israel didn't help you. Currently, they are thinking that PKK gains legitimacy, since they fight ISIS. You shouldn't backstab Americans at the moment. :laughing:


Erdogan is doing everything what the US is dictating to him. It's the US that fights Kurds in Rojava (Western Kurdistan). Erdogan is not a real smart fella, lol. With his low IQ he thought to outsmart the US and wanted to use ISIS for his own purposes. But his plans are backfiring at him. You shouldn't play games and use the Kurds for your own agenda. When you play with fire you must expect that you will burn by fire. And Erdogan, Istanbul, Ankara and the whole Turkye will BURN!

Look over here, I've got something appropriate. :cool-v:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

Goga
12-10-14, 03:53
I'm a Kurd. I support an independent Great Kurdistan. PKK are FREEDOM fighters that do also support independent Great Kurdistan. According to you Turks, everyone that supports an independent free Great Kurdistan is PKK. Well, I'll tell you something: I'm PKK. According to Russia PKK are freedom fighters. Erdogan is doing exactly what America is dictating to him. PKK is NOT a puppet of the US. PKK is FREE of the US influence.

rest of this post was deleted

Goga
12-10-14, 03:58
There're 50 million Kurds, and we will go nowhere. We're living on our ancestral homeland for thousands of years. We're the real survivors. And no matter what we will survive. After the great war, there will be a free prosperous independent Great Kurdistan, with Amed as capital!

John Doe
12-10-14, 07:49
http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/10/09/violent-protests-kurdish-isis-supporters-erupt-streets-hamburg (Right Leaning American Media) Police in the northern German city of Hamburg say 14 people were injured overnight in clashes between Kurdish protesters and members of a hard-line Islamic movemen

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29530640 (BBC News UK Media) Article Snippet: 19 dead in Turkish Protests; Riot police used tear gas and water cannon in a number of towns and cities as the disturbances spread across the country, including Ankara and Istanbul. Curfews have now been imposed in several cities in south-eastern Turkey with large Kurdish populations. The unrest has spread to over 30 cities in Turkey.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-10/islamic-state-seizes-large-areas-of-syrian-town-despite-air-str/5803544 (Left leaning American Media ABC News) Linked to fill out more information such as: The violence has prompted curfews to be imposed in five south-eastern provinces, restrictions unseen since the height of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) war against Turkish forces in the 1990s.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/08/world/middleeast/isis-syria-coalition-strikes.html?_r=0 (left leaning American Media the New York Times) Turkish Inaction on ISIS Advance Dismays the U.S.

http://www.voanews.com/content/voa-exclusive-turkish-troops-fire-on-kurdish-protesters/2480286.html (American media Voice of America) Turkish forces open fire on Syrian and Turkish Kurds. Snippet: The Syrian Kurdish protesters were joined in the open buffer zone by Kurds from Nusaybin on the Turkish side of the border. Kurds consider the two cities to be one with the border running down the middle of it.

The two groups joined together in pulling down the wire fences that separated their cities. Turkish sources claim the Syrian Kurds opened fire on the Yurkish Soldiers first but media present said there were no signs of guns among the protesters.

(that is right Turkey wont fire at ISIS but they will fire at Kurds attempting to get relief to kobani!)

And finally the most telling piece from the article is this: Friday, the U.N. envoy to Syria, Staffan de Mistura, urged Turkey to let "volunteers" [Kurds] cross the border to reinforce Kurdish militias defending Kobani against Islamic State militants. He warned that 700 civilians who remain trapped in Kobani, plus about 12,000 gathered nearby, will most likely be "massacred" if the city falls to the Islamist.

Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday he will not give into street protesters demanding his government do more to protect Kurds.

Very interesting info, thanks.
It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.

Goga
12-10-14, 08:01
http://www.dawn.com/news/1137387/pkk-threatens-to-resume-fighting-against-ankara : "PKK threatens to resume fighting against Ankara" ; http://www.smh.com.au/world/kurdish-leader-threatens-turkish-peace-deal-collapse-20141012-114waq.html : "Kurdish leader threatens Turkish peace deal collapse"

Goga
12-10-14, 08:14
Well, I can't talk freely here. The mod is censoring me. This is not funny anymore, I rest my case...

Yetos
12-10-14, 20:17
Very interesting info, thanks.
It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.

we called it Arab spring,
we wellcome it,
we were happy,

but what happened at the end,
we kill the murderer kantafi, but what happened to libya? tribal wars on and on,
we replace Egyptian president, but what we show? the same,
etc etc etc,

was it an Arab spring?
or it was a change of rulling murderes?


the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,

LeBrok
12-10-14, 21:00
the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,
Give them more time. Creation of new states is always a messy business. Look at history of modern Europe. We could have destroyed the whole world!

Yetos
12-10-14, 21:27
Give them more time. Creation of new states is always a messy business. Look at history of modern Europe. We could have destroyed the whole world!

that is what I am afraid,

time works for who?

ok by time we might see progress,
but with time we might see war in our towns,

lets see, hope you are right,

LeBrok
12-10-14, 21:30
that is what I am afraid,

time works for who?

ok by time we might see progress,
but with time we might see war in our towns,

lets see, hope you are right,
I see your point now.
I'm a bit more optimistic. :)

Alan
13-10-14, 02:27
I think Kurds have not tried enough to get it. (I might be wrong, but this is my opinion),.



Really? You are wrong in this particular case.

Ua'Ronain
13-10-14, 03:06
Well, I can't talk freely here. The mod is censoring me. This is not funny anymore, I rest my case...

You were censored because I reported your unconstructive, dangerous and hateful speech about the destruction of nations, specific cities and peoples.

You will find no one on these forums that is more pro-Kurd than myself that has also spent an unhealthy amount of time researching Kurdish issues and advocating for all of the Kurds no matter where they live.

So do not dare go down the road as usual and claim everyone is out to get the Kurds when the only reason you were reported was because the words you chose have no place in this debate.

Ua'Ronain
13-10-14, 03:16
we called it Arab spring,
we wellcome it,
we were happy,

but what happened at the end,
we kill the murderer kantafi, but what happened to libya? tribal wars on and on,
we replace Egyptian president, but what we show? the same,
etc etc etc,

was it an Arab spring?
or it was a change of rulling murderes?


the strange is that with kantafi and Assand and rest, Islam had not a multiethnic movable army
after Arab spring, and democracy and elimination of 'murderers presidents' I still see no progress to 20th century and democratic rules,

The Arab Spring was hijacked in Egypt and Syria by Islamic movements.

What started as a more liberal movement by students and the younger generations was exploited by radical elements who have no qualms about using intimidation, violence , bombs or twisting religious dogma to justify getting whatever it is that they want.

The only way for democracy/republics to work without this sort of chaos is for the state to be strictly secular. Those who govern on a national level should not be divided into political parties that cater to just one tribe, sect, religion or race.

If you want a stable country for the people then the foundation needs to be strong. They should be formed on a strong constitution that spells out protections for everyone with basic human rights; such as but not limited to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, freedom of religion. The citizens should have iron clad protections that cannot be changed no matter who assume power. All the laws should apply to everyone equally.


If your nation has a mosaic of cultures and religions it should be strength and not a weakness. Everyone must be afforded equal protection under the law bar none. No government can rule a multi-ethnic nation together if it only enriches one ethnic group, tribe or sect over the others. Iraq is a prime example when people separate themselves on the Sunni-Shia (religion) or Arab-Kurd (ethnicity) that it is a disaster waiting to happen.

A democracy is only as strong as the citizens that empower them! Invest in things that benefit everyone such as education and industry while leaving big ticket divisive issues out of the government sphere.


The military, militias and police forces should be a blend of everyone. No Shia or Sunni or Kurd militias because a proper central government will be protecting everyone equally.

Even after all of this is accomplished they would still have to find a common national identity that they can all rally behind and use to strengthen the whatever it is that holds them together.

I do not mean to make it sound easy but in my opinion all of those things are needed for democracy to work with some semblance of harmony.

Ua'Ronain
13-10-14, 03:24
Key question is to whom Turkey supports.


I think this is a fairly easy one to answer. Turkey supports Turkish interests!

I think they have miscalculated though and are finding out that their current path is not a viable answer when it leaves you at odds with every regional power, 2 super powers and an emboldened Kurdish movement that is rapidly gaining fame, financing, weapons, credibility and sympathy from the west as well as the Russians.

The current path of Turkey is one of isolation and civil insurrection at home as they want what they cannot have.

They want Assad out and the Russians, Iranians and Shia lead Iraq all strongly oppose this. [And while I do think if Syria only had Iraq and Iran in its corner we would not hesitate to remove him. But as it stands now the Russians hold too many cards.. I KNOW if we Americans do not play nice with Syria that Putin would not hesitate to put the clamps down on Ukraine and shut off much of Europe’s natural gas supply (winter is coming) and let’s face it if it comes down to toppling Assad or saving a European nation the west will always side with European interests for the sake of stability at home.] this section of the reply I borrowed from another post I made

They want to stomp on anything resembling the PPK or any autonomous Kurdish quasi-state on their border.

But sadly they do not even see the forest for the trees! As they dither the rest of the world is watching the Kurds fight heroically against the odds when confronted with ISIS in Iraq and Syria.

We watched as the Iraqi army routed as Isis marched to Mosul. We watched them push deeper into Anbar province the last few days as they assaulted Ramadi on three fronts and have inched closer to Baghdad as they moved in 10,000 fighters. The Iraqi army has American military equipment for individual soldiers such as night vision, body armor, rifles and other small arms as well as American anti-armor weapons. They also have American tanks, artillery, apache attack helicopters and Russian fighter jets that they purchased. On top of that they have Iranian revolutionary guard units mixed in with Shia Awaking Council Militias that are all backing the Iraqi national army. And with all of that Iraq is struggling to contain ISIS let alone drive them out of Iraq.


In one corner we have ISIS reviled around the globe for brutality, rape, slavery, war brides, concubines, kidnapping, beheadings, amputations, public executions where they leave the body on display to terrorize the local population and intimidate anyone who dares to not submit to them. In 8 months of fighting in Iraq alone 24,000 civilians have been killed or injured. Of those 8500 were fatalities. Between June 1st and August 31st of this year the United Nations listed 11,159 civilian casualties in Iraq alone.

In the other corner we have a myriad lose knit at the best of times Kurdish resistance that stretches from Syria to Iraq with fighters from Turkey as well. I am talking about the KRG in Iraq to the PYD/YPJ in Syria and the PKK in Turkey and PJAK in Iran. [There are others as well]

What we see is images of Kurds in Iraq and Syria fighting against all odds with courage and bravery to defend their homelands because no one else will. It is one of the most inspiring moments I have witness in my life. We see them defending anyone that they can; not just Kurds or Sunnis but anyone. We see the struggle; we see the lack of proper equipment and we watch as they fight with aging cold war era weapons. This is the classic underdog story that many people love to root for, this is David vs Goliath and it is winning the war of hearts and minds across Europe and North America.

Turkey is now caught between a rock and a hard place; they face isolation and a rebellion at home. And they have no idea how little clout they have in this situation. Washington and London have made it very clear that we will not deploy ground forces to fight ISIS. So now we end up needing the Kurds, we will rely on Kurdish Peshmerga to do a lot of the fighting for us. The Kurds have fought Saddam Hussein, they now fight ISIS which the majority of the world considers the most ruthless movement on the planet with no morality or respect for human rights.

The standard guidelines of politics dictate that they should be rewarded for their sacrifices.

Ua'Ronain
13-10-14, 03:35
Very interesting info, thanks.
It's no secret Erdogan basically belongs to the Turkish Muslim brotherhood, and attempts to become a new Ottoman sultan, by drawing Turkey away from Europe and the west and back to the Islamic world. He also doesn't give a shit about democracy, running for president because he can't be PM anymore, and then changing the constitution so the president gets the power. He also seems more keen on fighting Assad than fighting Isis. Now, Assad is a murderer, but it now seems like in Syria, it's going to be either Assad or Isis.

I have done a lot of reading about the current ruling Turkish party and while they have similar ideology and are very sympathetic to the Muslim brotherhood they are not exactly the same. Yes they did/do support Morsi in Egypt and Hamas in Gaza but that does not make them a pan-Sunni party that rules Turkey, gaza, formerly Egypt and one of the fighting faction in Libya.

I would argue that Turkey was never really in line with the west or Europe but used elements of our influence to create what we know today as Turkey. We agree that he is much more autocratic and cracks down on dissent readily with a heavy hand and has no respect for a free and open press/media/social media by his closing access to YouTube & twitter and trying to silence critics.

But he would not dare to go all Islamic at the moment as there is still a strong nationalistic opposition in Turkey that would explode if he made such a move quickly. It would turn Turkey into a battle royal pitting the Islamic movement vs nationalists vs the Kurds. For now the ruling party and nationalists have a surging economy and everyone likes money and a common enemy in the Kurds to unite them.

If they were to start fighting with each other Turkey would go to hell in a hand basket almost overnight.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff225/uaronain/bvpxon1ieaawehc_zps91949022.jpg (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/uaronain/media/bvpxon1ieaawehc_zps91949022.jpg.html)

As for Syria I am banking on an Assad Pyrrhic victory via the coalition removing ISIS. It is one thing to bomb ISIS with tacit approval from the Syrian regime or a military expedition to prevent a humanitarian disaster and another entirely to create a buffer/no fly zone inside of Syrian borders or going further and trying to topple Assad with government forces of any kind. The Russians, Iranians and Shia dominated Iraq would oppose such a move.

And while I do think if Syria only had Iraq and Iran in its corner we would not hesitate to remove him. (or allow the buffer zone with a no fly zone) But as it stands now the Russians hold too many cards.. I KNOW if we Americans do not play nice with Syria that Putin would not hesitate to put the clamps down on Ukraine and shut off much of Europe’s natural gas supply (winter is coming) and let’s face it if it comes down to toppling Assad or saving a European nation the west will always side with European interests for the sake of stability at home.

Another way of looking at it would be this; Russia has incredible leverage it could bring to bear if it were to defend Russian interests in Syria while Turkey does not.

Yetos
13-10-14, 23:36
Turkey was the frontier of radical Islam after Kemal.

today turkey is stronger in economy, in military, is the 2nd NATO/OTAN force,
but must choose its allies,

either back to kemalism and a κοσμιο cosmo, a soft islam, either a radical,

you can not be in both NATO EU and radical Islam,

besides the majority of IS are known Chechens warriors, an ethnic ID that Turkey supported in the past against ex USSR and Russia,
so what is terrorism for Turkey (PKK and rest Kurds) is Friendly to Rest and especially Russia,
What is Terrorism for rest and Russia (chechens) is Friendly to Turkey,

no matter what, the amazing is the stance that Iran is keeping,
I have not heard a sound about what is going on,
I think they are either afraid the most, or they wait for the correct time, or they just stay pathetic,
unpredicted their will and stance.

It is not the business of USA to solve the case,

IT IS A MATTER OF ALL OF US TO STOP TERROR, AND I AM WAITING MUCH MORE FROM EUROPE, IN THE MATTER OF ID CARDS, PASSPORTS, PERSONA NON GRADA etc.

Turkey is arresting wounded Kurds as terrorists,
and accept in her Hospital the wounded Jihands to get heal, in a Humanistic view and stance,

do you want photos and videos?

Goga
14-10-14, 00:32
no matter what, the amazing is the stance that Iran is keeping,
I have not heard a sound about what is going on,
I think they are either afraid the most, or they wait for the correct time, or they just stay pathetic,
unpredicted their will and stance.http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Oct-14/273963-khamenei-blames-us-wicked-britain-for-creating-isis.ashx#axzz3G4BaxVLl : "Khamenei blames U.S., 'wicked' Britain, for creating ISIS"

Goga
14-10-14, 00:42
Btw, Iran is not afraid of anybody. Iran is closely monitoring the situation from a distance. ISIS can't touch such a strong independent country like Persia, with Russia as an ally, at all. Also, Iran is using Hezbollah (Shia, Iranian) against ISIS. Hezbollah is destroying ISIS in Assad region, and ISIS will never be able to defeat Hezbollah (Shia). Also, Israel is playing dirty double games to by supporting ISIS. All what is currently is happening in the Middle East is good for the interests of Israel. Israel is shifting its own problems to other regions, like into Kurdistan. Why? Kurdish population was never enemies of Israel. Also, like Turkye, Israel is playing with fire. Turkye is burning and will burn much more by the same fire. What about Israel? What if Kurds and Kurdistan will become enemies of Israel? After all, current events in Kurdistan are because of the Western World helped and is helping Turkye, ISIS and other Islamist groups. What will happen if ALL 50 million Kurds will work together with Iran, Hezbollah (also in Lebanon) and Russia, ha? Ever thought about that?

Goga
14-10-14, 01:05
It's all about the survival. Kurds have their own interests. Kurds (children of the Medes) from Kurdistan (land of the Sun & Fire) will choose what is the best for them. We survived for thousands of years. We survived in much more difficult times. And of course, this time we will survive too. There're 50 million Kurds! No matter what, there will be a free independent Great Kurdistan. Personally I do believe that an alliance with Russia & Persia are the best for Kurdish interests. And that one day Kurdistan and Persia will make a pact and form some kind of an 'Iranian Union'. Persian and Kurds together will be very strong. It's obvious that the Turks & Sunni Arabs are the biggest enemies of the 'Iranic race'. I sincerely hope that Kurdish leaders will go through this path…

Goga
14-10-14, 10:37
Friends, I have great news! With a great joy I want to state that the last great patriotic war of liberation of Northern Kurdistan just started! Turkish fighter jets bombed Northern Kurdistan! Kurds are peaceful folks. We wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan through peaceful way. The so called peace process is finished, Turks can't play games any longer. They're desperate. Turks showed their face. Their dogs, ISIS, will be exterminated and by extermination I really mean that EVERY ISIS member will die very soon. Turks want to fight, so let fight!

John Doe
14-10-14, 10:53
Btw, Iran is not afraid of anybody. Iran is closely monitoring the situation from a distance. ISIS can't touch such a strong independent country like Persia, with Russia as an ally, at all. Also, Iran is using Hezbollah (Shia, Iranian) against ISIS. Hezbollah is destroying ISIS in Assad region, and ISIS will never be able to defeat Hezbollah (Shia). Also, Israel is playing dirty double games to by supporting ISIS. All what is currently is happening in the Middle East is good for the interests of Israel. Israel is shifting its own problems to other regions, like into Kurdistan. Why? Kurdish population was never enemies of Israel. Also, like Turkye, Israel is playing with fire. Turkye is burning and will burn much more by the same fire. What about Israel? What if Kurds and Kurdistan will become enemies of Israel? After all, current events in Kurdistan are because of the Western World helped and is helping Turkye, ISIS and other Islamist groups. What will happen if ALL 50 million Kurds will work together with Iran, Hezbollah (also in Lebanon) and Russia, ha? Ever thought about that?

From what I know, most Israelis hate Erdogan, because he funds the Hamas and compares Israel to Nazi Germany. Many support the Kurds, in fact, from what I read, there's going to be a large protest on Friday in front of the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv to allow supplies and ammunition to move into the surrounded city of Kobani. Many Israelis are sympathetic to the Kurdish cause, hell, many Israelis are of Kurdish origin (Kurdish Jewish anyway). Most Israelis despise Iran because Iran refuses to recognise Israel at all, and in many cases denied the Holocaust which pisses off most Israelis. It seems like Israel is starting to create closer relations to non western countries like India, Russia and China.

Yetos
14-10-14, 23:12
there was a congress today of coalitiona gainst Jihand,

the members,

Saudi Arabia
United Arab Emirates
Qatar
Iraq
Turkey !!!
Jordania
Egypt
Bahrein
Lebanon

Australia
Belgium
Netherlands
France
Germany
BRitain
Italy
Denmark
Spain

New Zealand
Canada

why when i read it I roll on floor laughing?

Diocletian
14-10-14, 23:36
Kurds are peaceful folks. We wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan through peaceful way. The so called peace process is finished, Turks can't play games any longer. They're desperate.

Almost forty thousand Turkish soldiers were killed by PKK over the last 20 years. Let me tell you how you wanted to liberate Northern Kurdistan in a peaceful way. Some rat founded a vile terrorist organization, which is PKK, of which bandits dredged up unborn babies from the wombs of their mothers with bayonets, tortured children until they no longer breathed, arranged countless raids to harbour patrols, sold heroin to teenagers and made them addicted so that they could buy new guns. That's how peaceful you are. No less savage than IS. Kurds are peaceful folks? Not if they support PKK. Now, you demand help from Turkey. Well, that makes you a little pathetic.

Goga
15-10-14, 06:58
Turkey is a terrorist state and is using state terror on it’s neighbours. In the past Turks genocide many ethnicities, but this time they will not succeed. This time Turkey will be abolished before it can commit some horrible crimes again against innocent women and children. Btw, I’m sure that my freedom humanist organisation the PKK killed much more than 4000 Turkic terrorists. How many so called suicide were reported in Turkye, ha?

Goga
15-10-14, 07:00
I thought that the Turks love rats, mad dogs and wolves, since they love Daesh rats, mad dogs. But I will promise you, that we Kurds will exterminate all those Islamic Turkish ISIS rats and mad dogs very soon in the near future. They're useless, failed and angry people, and useless people who commit crimes have no tight to live! Soon there will be no Daesh and Turks will be on their own. And they will have to face 50 million Kurds!

Ua'Ronain
15-10-14, 21:40
Because of just how big of a topic this is I am going to direct the bulk of my answers into a new thread that I will create. The sheer volume of information about this needs to be addressed in a uniform way with headings, links and all relevant information in one easy to find place.

I will post all known links between Turkey, Syria, Iraq, PKK, YPD, KRG, Iran, FSA, the West and all other known actors in the multi axis conflict that is going on in the middle east. From ISIS to Al Qaeda and other terror listed groups and who supports whom.


To Diocletian do not worry there is plenty of mud to sling when it comes to ISIS but you cannot ignore Turkey's role while blaming Washington for everything. I am also going to add that you do not have an objective view towards the Kurdish question. Your number of 40,000 dead soldiers is a misrepresentation of the truth. A quick Google search would prove this! You scream about PKK but not one time have I seen you try to understand what caused the PKK to be created int he first place. Widespread discrimination of the Kurdish people on a massive scale for the ENTIRE history of what we know as the Republic of Turkey. I will make sure to list each and every law, massacre and injustice done to the Kurds to lead to the creation of PKK for you in great detail in my new series of threads.

Yetos
16-10-14, 15:25
THE IMPORTANCE OF KOMBANE TOWN.

what make Kombane a 'wanted' city for IS?

Kombane is town at the borders near turkey, nothing important, nothing special,
then why IS lost so much forces on taking it and is important to IS as much as to send even suiciders 'man bombs'

by looking at the map we surely can realize its position,
Kombane is a corridor,

Iraq soon will be Bagdat and souroundings, and North ex-Iraq might be the 'free Kurdistan'
but there is oil there, and that oil must find an exit,
The Mussulle oil must be sold, but who will get the profit of 'protection'?

in that case Kombane is an important city,

there are oil pipe lines (corridors) that transfer oil to Arabian Gulf and Mediterennean,
now if IS takes Kombane then 2 options exists.
1. the pipe lines pass from Turkey, which means money for Turkey, stronger position and EXCLUSIVE OIL TRANSPORTER and seller, A MONOPOLION , since Russian, Azer, etc etc pipe lines pass through Turkey
2. the pipe lines pass from Kombane but are in control of IS, that means money to Jihadists,

now if Kombane stays under Kurds, that means a forced unification of Kurds, since North Kurdistan Mossulle and West Kurdistan will profit the oil, and Kombane will be the 'pipe line' the road of oil to mediterrennean sea.
that makes Kombane a 'desirable' city, so desirable, that IS is interested more, than to take Bagdat, and Turkey to face a civil war, by healing' Jihadists and arresting her own wounded citizens.

now I do not know if in case of Kombane, if IS is working for Turkey, or Turkey is working for IS, or both for their own, but from the numbers more than 3500 Jihadists dead for that town, we can realize the importance.

the enclosure of kombane started with 4 000 jihadists and now are more than 12 000 Jihadists there,

the passport show much Chechenian origin of Jihadists there, and some turkish passport citizenship but from another nativity, origin.

It seems now that is not Ukraine for Syrria, but more,

personally at the begin I believed that the chess game among Obama and Putin was Syrria (Assand) and Ukraine. but seems Turkey is also in that chess game,


PS
to expand more think the Λαττακεια Latakia harbor (exit of the previous corridor) to unite with Israeli/Cyprus oil deposits and pipe lines,

albanopolis
16-10-14, 15:56
It's all about the survival. Kurds have their own interests. Kurds (children of the Medes) from Kurdistan (land of the Sun & Fire) will choose what is the best for them. We survived for thousands of years. We survived in much more difficult times. And of course, this time we will survive too. There're 50 million Kurds! No matter what, there will be a free independent Great Kurdistan. Personally I do believe that an alliance with Russia & Persia are the best for Kurdish interests. And that one day Kurdistan and Persia will make a pact and form some kind of an 'Iranian Union'. Persian and Kurds together will be very strong. It's obvious that the Turks & Sunni Arabs are the biggest enemies of the 'Iranic race'. I sincerely hope that Kurdish leaders will go through this path…

I don't quite get your point!
That an independent Kurdish state is a legitimate dream I get that. Now dreams sometimes come true sometimes not. I hope Kurdish dream of an independent state comes true. But Union with Iran? Iran is assimilating its Kurds within its borders. That means in a few centuries they will be proud Iranians. If you join Iran they will make sure you speak their language and have a mullah as the head of state. So if you want to become someone else what's the point of independence?
Turkey is a major player and an important USA partner. Knowing that Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia have strong cultural and economic ties with Russia, mutual sympathy for each other and strong economic ties, do you really think USA will throw Turkey under the bus for an Iraqi Kurdistan?
There are 65 million Turks in Turkey and its hard to ignore them.
So my point is Kurdish independence will be decided in Ankara.

Ua'Ronain
16-10-14, 22:27
I don't quite get your point!
Turkey is a major player and an important USA partner. Knowing that Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia have strong cultural and economic ties with Russia, mutual sympathy for each other and strong economic ties, do you really think USA will throw Turkey under the bus for an Iraqi Kurdistan?
There are 65 million Turks in Turkey and its hard to ignore them.
So my point is Kurdish independence will be decided in Ankara.

Turkey used to be a major partner and ally but under the AK party it has been increasingly uncooperative and it has lead to increasing divisions between Washington and Ankara. I have said before that this will cause diplomatic isolation for Turkey for being uncooperative and you see the results today. as they were passed over for position on the UN security table. (Spain and New Zealand got the spots) source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/turkey-loses-out-un-security-council-seat-20141016185125847941.html)

As an American veteran I can tell you that we are deeply vested in Iraq and the Kurds in particular have always been a loyal ally.

We will not throw 'Turkey" under the bus but after 3 years of allowing them to direct the FSA and allowing them political control of the "recognized" opposition in Syria it has gotten out of hand. Obama recently mocked the FSA and started bypassing the Turkish backed leadership and supplying and communicating with units on our own. Under Turkish guidance the Kurds in Syria were shunned and left out of the main voice for unifying the opposition in Syria. They were not present in 2011-2012 for the summits in Turkey and the one they went to in Cairo was a disaster because the Turkish backed speaker openly mocked the Kurds and when the Kurdish speaker went to speak back it lead to a fist fight!

As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.

This is significant because this week Obama said he is looking for "moderate" rebels to back. When your choices are the failed Turkish lead FSA that was backed by the UK&USA or a long list of Islamic brigades that either work with al-nursa or ISIS who does that lave? Thats right the Syrian Kurds who today the US State Department held direct talks with and this week started direct military aid to the YPG. Check out twitter (https://twitter.com/hashtag/PYD?src=hash) for some great stuff on it. source (http://Hewler parliament to develop relationship with Rojava cantons ANF - HEWLER 16.10.2014 10:30:10The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.)

And guess what else happened today? The government of Iraqi Kurdistan the Kurdish regional Government held a meeting with the PYD to mend fences and unite in the face of ISIS attack. This is also significant because before the KRG did not support the Syrian Kurds unilateral decoration of autonomy. As all of this is happening today more and more comments are coming out.

The Kurdish Regional Government is now officially recognizing Rojava!

The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.

After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.

The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.

1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.

2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.

3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.

4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.

5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.




IN SUMMARY BIG DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK: Good news for the Kurds in Syria and Iraq but very sad news coming out of Turkey
1. Direct communication between US Military and PYG fighters in Kobani (a snub to turkey)
2. State Department has direct talks with PYD for the first time (a snub to Turkey)
3. Iraqi and Syrian Kurds work out differences in attempt to stand unified in the face of ISIS (I think this is the magical moderate opposition Obama has been looking for to train and supply)
4. Turkey fails in its bid to get a seat on the UN Security Council (Spain and New Zealand got the spots)

albanopolis
16-10-14, 23:03
Turkey used to be a major partner and ally but under the AK party it has been increasingly uncooperative and it has lead to increasing divisions between Washington and Ankara. I have said before that this will cause diplomatic isolation for Turkey for being uncooperative and you see the results today. as they were passed over for position on the UN security table. (Spain and New Zealand got the spots) source (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/turkey-loses-out-un-security-council-seat-20141016185125847941.html)

As an American veteran I can tell you that we are deeply vested in Iraq and the Kurds in particular have always been a loyal ally.

We will not throw 'Turkey" under the bus but after 3 years of allowing them to direct the FSA and allowing them political control of the "recognized" opposition in Syria it has gotten out of hand. Obama recently mocked the FSA and started bypassing the Turkish backed leadership and supplying and communicating with units on our own. Under Turkish guidance the Kurds in Syria were shunned and left out of the main voice for unifying the opposition in Syria. They were not present in 2011-2012 for the summits in Turkey and the one they went to in Cairo was a disaster because the Turkish backed speaker openly mocked the Kurds and when the Kurdish speaker went to speak back it lead to a fist fight!

As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.

This is significant because this week Obama said he is looking for "moderate" rebels to back. When your choices are the failed Turkish lead FSA that was backed by the UK&USA or a long list of Islamic brigades that either work with al-nursa or ISIS who does that lave? Thats right the Syrian Kurds who today the US State Department held direct talks with and this week started direct military aid to the YPG. Check out twitter (https://twitter.com/hashtag/PYD?src=hash) for some great stuff on it. source (http://Hewler parliament to develop relationship with Rojava cantons ANF - HEWLER 16.10.2014 10:30:10The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.)

And guess what else happened today? The government of Iraqi Kurdistan the Kurdish regional Government held a meeting with the PYD to mend fences and unite in the face of ISIS attack. This is also significant because before the KRG did not support the Syrian Kurds unilateral decoration of autonomy. As all of this is happening today more and more comments are coming out.

The Kurdish Regional Government is now officially recognizing Rojava!

The parliament in South Kurdistan decided yesterday to develop relationships with the cantons of Rojava after a day-long debate. 79 deputies approved a motion calling on the Federal Kurdistan Government to improve links with the administrations in Rojava.

After a debate yesterday in the South Kurdistan parliament, a motion was passed calling for relationships to be developed with the cantons established in Cizire (Jazireh), Afrin and Kobanê.

The following articles are in the motion passed by parliament asking for the Federal Kurdistan administration to develop relations with the administrations in Rojava.

1-The Kurdistan Parliament supports the will of the people of Rojava and wants the Kurdistan Regional Government to develop formal relations with the administrations in Rojava.

2- The government should be in material solidarity with Rojava.

3- The relevant bodies should implement this decision.

4- There should be absolutely no action contrary to this decision.

5- This decision will come into force after it is officially published by the Kurdistan Regional Parliament.




IN SUMMARY BIG DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK: Good news for the Kurds in Syria and Iraq but very sad news coming out of Turkey
1. Direct communication between US Military and PYG fighters in Kobani (a snub to turkey)
2. State Department has direct talks with PYD for the first time (a snub to Turkey)
3. Iraqi and Syrian Kurds work out differences in attempt to stand unified in the face of ISIS (I think this is the magical moderate opposition Obama has been looking for to train and supply)
4. Turkey fails in its bid to get a seat on the UN Security Council (Spain and New Zealand got the spots)
Turkey is a Nato member and USA is fighting hard to get them to the EU.
Kurds are not substitute for Turkey in terms of the regional importance.
I don't really think that USA will allow for now at least, Iraqi Kurds to be independent. They don't want to upset Turkey so they will ask Kurds to settle with autonomy. If Kurds attempt to proclaim their independence will immediately be under Turkish military assault. The USA will tell Kurds; I told you so;
Kurds can in fact get a mini state in Syria which I think Turkey might not oppose.

Ua'Ronain
16-10-14, 23:26
The Kurds in Syria are modling themselves much like in iraq where they remain within the state they are a part of now but with autonomy. The Turks oppose any rights to the kurds in syria.

You are missing the point I am trying to make. That the west is starting to back the Kurds outside of Turkey even if the Turks do not like it.

In the end Ankara has no power over international aid that is strengthening the Kurds as they are being made a part of the coalition to fight ISIS. If they are rewarded with equal rights in Syria as they are in Iraqi and granted the same rights as the Iraqi Kurds then it is a victory for the Kurds. None of the main Kurdish political parties in Iraq, Syria or Turkey are calling for outright independence, they are calling for equal rights, self determination and some autonomy.

(not even the terror listed PKK calls for independence)

LeBrok
17-10-14, 03:58
Thanks Ua'Ronain for a detailed update. I'm glad Obama gave up on Turkey with supplying Kurds with military equipment.
Too bad Turkey sucumbs to its insecurities in regards to Kurds and doesn't want to play positive and constructive role in this region. It seems like Turkey doesn't want to do any moves not to screw up anything, to be blamed for outcomes, and embraces status quo. Even though the world is changing around them.

albanopolis
17-10-14, 05:39
Thanks Ua'Ronain for a detailed update. I'm glad Obama gave up on Turkey with supplying Kurds with military equipment.
Too bad Turkey sucumbs to its insecurities in regards to Kurds and doesn't want to play positive and constructive role in this region. It seems like Turkey doesn't want to do any moves not to screw up anything, to be blamed for outcomes, and embraces status quo. Even though the world is changing around them.

I think Turkey probably is smelling something is being played behind its back. They will not blindly follow the Israelis.
For some time The Israelis have smelled oil in Kurdistan. They probably are pushing USA for recognition of Kurdish state but that will anger both Turkey and Iran which could end in a coalition.
I don't know but I think Turkey can not be ignored in the surrounding region.It did help USA in the Cold war and its contribution will not easily be forgotten.
Kurds had the best chance of independence now. They are not even talking about it. I think they have a good reason not to talk about it. But as I have said Kurdish independence will happen with USA blessing.
I wish them luck though. One can not deny others what is asking for themselves.

Ua'Ronain
17-10-14, 10:04
I think Turkey probably is smelling something is being played behind its back. They will not blindly follow the Israelis.
For some time The Israelis have smelled oil in Kurdistan. They probably are pushing USA for recognition of Kurdish state but that will anger both Turkey and Iran which could end in a coalition.
I don't know but I think Turkey can not be ignored in the surrounding region.It did help USA in the Cold war and its contribution will not easily be forgotten.
Kurds had the best chance of independence now. They are not even talking about it. I think they have a good reason not to talk about it. But as I have said Kurdish independence will happen with USA blessing.
I wish them luck though. One can not deny others what is asking for themselves.

Not everything is about oil and Israel.... Almost the whole world cares about the Palestinians and western countries are officially starting to recognize a Palestinian state. But god forbid we apply the same to the Kurds. Apparently hating the Kurds is the only acceptable form of racism left on the entire planet.

If we take out all of the geo-politics and apply our humanity it should be obvious to everyone that liberty and equality should be a universal right for everyone on our planet. The fact that we globally ignored the plight of the Kurds for so long is a disgrace.

albanopolis
17-10-14, 12:40
Not everything is about oil and Israel.... Almost the whole world cares about the Palestinians and western countries are officially starting to recognize a Palestinian state. But god forbid we apply the same to the Kurds. Apparently hating the Kurds is the only acceptable form of racism left on the entire planet.

If we take out all of the geo-politics and apply our humanity it should be obvious to everyone that liberty and equality should be a universal right for everyone on our planet. The fact that we globally ignored the plight of the Kurds for so long is a disgrace.

Nobody is hating the Kurds. They have not done anything. They absolutely deserve the independence. But the real world is quite different. Humanity is not always taken into account. The interests play a huge role. Its not in Turkish interest an independent Kurdistan. They feel like an independent Iraqi Kurdistan will serve as base for uprising of Turkish Kurds. Any split Turkey- Kurds of Turkey will certainly involve violence.
In 1920 the whole Greek population of Turkey was exported to Greece when Greeks could not control their appetite. They wanted a big piece which got stuck in their throat.
So who can guarantee that can not happen again.
I think Kurdish Independence will come over a longer time.
There is no reason for USA to recognize a Kurd state at this point. They are not mistreated by the Iraqi government. ISIS is a risk for Iraqis too.
Everything can happen but thats the way I see it.

Diocletian
18-10-14, 19:52
To Diocletian do not worry there is plenty of mud to sling when it comes to ISIS but you cannot ignore Turkey's role while blaming Washington for everything. I am also going to add that you do not have an objective view towards the Kurdish question. Your number of 40,000 dead soldiers is a misrepresentation of the truth. A quick Google search would prove this! You scream about PKK but not one time have I seen you try to understand what caused the PKK to be created int he first place. Widespread discrimination of the Kurdish people on a massive scale for the ENTIRE history of what we know as the Republic of Turkey. I will make sure to list each and every law, massacre and injustice done to the Kurds to lead to the creation of PKK for you in great detail in my new series of threads.

I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.

Sile
18-10-14, 21:07
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.

banning a language and culture of a group of people is racism in its extreme form .....you know this and everyone knows this. But since the concept of nationlism in the 18th century we see every nation percentage of lies have increased ten fold.

the term , "because they are muslim then they are part of the Turkish nation" is 100% wrong....what does religion have to do with ethnicity and nationalism?

Garrick
18-10-14, 21:30
Kurds must acquire full human rights and not mercy from "big boss".

This is century when Kurds should achieve full national affirmation and be on their own.

LeBrok
18-10-14, 23:17
There is no reason for USA to recognize a Kurd state at this point. They are not mistreated by the Iraqi government. ISIS is a risk for Iraqis too. Strong ally of US in Near East is always a good reason to have. Strong and independent Kurdistan would be a better friend of Europe and US than Turkey at the moment. ISIS is a common enemy of the West and Kurds. Kurds will be the only reliable ally, of all the involved parties, and "boots on the ground".

Who else we can trust? Double faced Turkish government? Corrupt and incapable Iraqis? Iran, who is enjoying the mess, which makes other countries weaker and taking Iran off center of attention in Middle East?

Alan
19-10-14, 00:20
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

No way are the Turkish casualities even comparable to those of Kurds. Not even the slightest. All this conflict took place in the pred. Kurdish East not in Central nor Western Turkey. It was 3000 Kurdish villages destroyed and not a single Turkish one. I am not denying that there are Turkish casualities but you have to see it in an objective way. Those casualties are not the result of Kurdish "aggressions" towards peacefull Turkish public. It was a reaction to the century long oppression.


You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.

If it were only Kurdish rebels. Most of the massacred people were simple civilians. Massacred to give the Kurds the message of "keep silent or die".

Yetos
19-10-14, 15:29
I don't ignore Turkey's involvement in the development of ISIS, but Washington is not as pure as the driven snow. You have to comprehend that in the first place. I do have an objective view towards the Kurdish issue. According to the official figures, the number of the casualties regarding the Turkish side will always be claimed lesser than the actual. Maybe you should allocate your time to learn Turkish and do more research on the topic by reading some books written by retired Turkish military officers and commanders that fought against PKK.

You think I won't speak about why PKK was created. Kurds were subject to an intense Turkification. Kurds are muslims, that's why they have been regarded as a part of the Turkish nation. Turkish authorities banned Kurdish language in the public institutions, such as courts, prisons, schools etc. They even denied that such a language actually exists. Kurdish towns had received harassment by the Turkish military police hundreds of times in the past and Kurdish rebels were massacred that they were put inside acid pits. You see? I am very objective, so you don't need to do anything for me to understand something that I already know of.


Kurds were regarded as part of Turkish 'wider' nation, or as the valuable/precious ally from the battle of Manjikert almost a millenium before,
always indipentended and always under Ottomans or Neo Turks
the last alliance of Kurds and Turks was in1920's with Kemal and Topal Osman in Trapezous and Kerasous areas, (Trabzon Giresun)

if you are really a Turk then you know the 2 biggest allies of Turks in History were Kurds and Azeris,
and after 1500 Albanias (Arnauts) in Balkans, the ones who did not paid blood taxation

the Kurdish awakening in Turkey started around 1960's and grow after 1970-80s

Yetos
19-10-14, 15:50
Kurdish problem is bigger,

as Greek I happened to know quite a few about them,
and if I am wrong I call upon the kurds of the forum to falsify me,
Kurds are generally under 3 major sub nationalistic divisions
and under many leaders (patriarchs if you like) that before 100 years could fight each other,
they never tried to unite and succed a unification,
and if they fail now, they start war among each other, as happens always,
the only combined actions of sub tribes are shown today,

Kurds had many opportunities to become indipendent from the times of British Empire and revolt of Arabs and liberation of Damaskos,
till the 1920's the Greek-Turkey wars,
but they decide to ally with Turks,
so Today they face either a Turkization, or Arabization, either a genocide or a destruction
Those who know History, know about the Armenians and Greeks and Neo-Turks
IT IS VERY HARD AND DIFFICULT TO ESCAPE FROM OTTOMANS, and Neo-Turks are much much smarter than Ottoman sultans,
besides Turkey has excellent diplomacy, and excellent army,

no matter a Greek i admire their raise and their progress from the 1970's and after,

Garrick
19-10-14, 17:41
Kurdish problem is bigger, as Greek I happened to know quite a few about them, and if I am wrong I call upon the kurds of the forum to falsify me, Kurds are generally under 3 major sub nationalistic divisions and under many leaders (patriarchs if you like) that before 100 years could fight each other, they never tried to unite and succed a unification, and if they fail now, they start war among each other, as happens always, the only combined actions of sub tribes are shown today, Kurds had many opportunities to become indipendent from the times of British Empire and revolt of Arabs and liberation of Damaskos, till the 1920's the Greek-Turkey wars, but they decide to ally with Turks, so Today they face either a Turkization, or Arabization, either a genocide or a destruction Those who know History, know about the Armenians and Greeks and Neo-Turks IT IS VERY HARD AND DIFFICULT TO ESCAPE FROM OTTOMANS, and Neo-Turks are much much smarter than Ottoman sultans, besides Turkey has excellent diplomacy, and excellent army,

Turks in the late 19th and first quarter of 20th century (there we think about Ottomans in last phase and after them Turkish nationalists) did more genocides and massacres, where victims were Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians, all non-Muslim nations (and of course Turkish president Erdogan again talks about Neo-Ottoman Balkans and his Balkan allies).

But after twenties only numerous minority who remained in Turkey were Kurds, and they came on line.

Questions are: how many massacres and crimes were against Kurds from thirties to now, how many Kurdish villages and resorts are destroyed, how many them Kurds had to escape, what all kinds of repressions against Kurds leaded by Turkish regime, what human rights Kurds have in Turkey now etc., it would be good that Kurds are talking about it, evidence in Internet is awful and very serious for Turkish regime.

Diocletian
20-10-14, 19:39
banning a language and culture of a group of people is racism in its extreme form .....you know this and everyone knows this. But since the concept of nationlism in the 18th century we see every nation percentage of lies have increased ten fold.

the term , "because they are muslim then they are part of the Turkish nation" is 100% wrong....what does religion have to do with ethnicity and nationalism?

It is wrong, but not because it doesn't have its own sense of logic. What we refer to as "nation" was called "millet" in the Ottoman period. Millet was differentiated according to the religion. So, if you were Albanian, Bosniak, Kurd, Turk, Circassian etc. you were muslim and therefore part of the extended Turkish identity. That's probably why "Turkish" is regarded equal to "muslim" in Europe. This type of understanding didn't change when the republic was established.


No way are the Turkish casualities even comparable to those of Kurds. Not even the slightest. All this conflict took place in the pred. Kurdish East not in Central nor Western Turkey. It was 3000 Kurdish villages destroyed and not a single Turkish one. I am not denying that there are Turkish casualities but you have to see it in an objective way. Those casualties are not the result of Kurdish "aggressions" towards peacefull Turkish public. It was a reaction to the century long oppression.

Yes, thousands of Kurdish villages were destroyed by Turkish forces, I'm not denying this. Do you confirm that PKK kidnapped school teachers and burned schools down and rejected any financial betterment initiative to the area, threatened Kurdish families who tried to keep away from the conflict in order to recruit more terrorists from among the young to the training camps?


If it were only Kurdish rebels. Most of the massacred people were simple civilians. Massacred to give the Kurds the message of "keep silent or die".

True. But I need to correct that "keep silent or die" part. "Keep silent" means "don't keep sending more terrorists to the camps". If they were to listen this advice, then PKK comes and says "you didn't send us more terrorists, die!!!!". That's how you add to the total number of "only civilian" Kurdish casualties. :satisfied:


Kurds were regarded as part of Turkish 'wider' nation, or as the valuable/precious ally from the battle of Manjikert almost a millenium before,
always indipentended and always under Ottomans or Neo Turks
the last alliance of Kurds and Turks was in1920's with Kemal and Topal Osman in Trapezous and Kerasous areas, (Trabzon Giresun)

if you are really a Turk then you know the 2 biggest allies of Turks in History were Kurds and Azeris,
and after 1500 Albanias (Arnauts) in Balkans, the ones who did not paid blood taxation

the Kurdish awakening in Turkey started around 1960's and grow after 1970-80s

Kurds have had been a good ally to Turks also during the Armenian Genocide. Most of the "dirty job" was executed by them.

Yetos
20-10-14, 22:17
It is wrong, but not because it doesn't have its own sense of logic. What we refer to as "nation" was called "millet" in the Ottoman period. Millet was differentiated according to the religion. So, if you were Albanian, Bosniak, Kurd, Turk, Circassian etc. you were muslim and therefore part of the extended Turkish identity. That's probably why "Turkish" is regarded equal to "muslim" in Europe. This type of understanding didn't change when the republic was established.

almost correct,
Muslim were identified as Turks in census that Ottomans did before 1900








Kurds have had been a good ally to Turks also during the Armenian Genocide. Most of the "dirty job" was executed by them.


I know, I know the story of Topal Osman, his army were Kurds, at 1922-23

they could have their own state that time,
it would a Bigger Greece, a indipendent Kurdistan, a Bigger Armenia (the 2 kings, the proposal of Pontic and armenian state), and a indipendent Laz state, and a pure core Neo Turk state from Adrianoypolis and Prussa to Myrsina and Kastamone
but they decided to follow the Muslim relation than their indipendence.

anyway, things are tough today for the 2 'allies'.

I hope a good solution for both, with less damage possible.


btw
do you believe that if Kurdistan make indipendent state, then Turkey might be a trully Alobites Allevi islamic state, closer to kemalic believes? or will turn again to deep islamic roots?

Diocletian
21-10-14, 10:28
btw
do you believe that if Kurdistan make indipendent state, then Turkey might be a trully Alobites Allevi islamic state, closer to kemalic believes? or will turn again to deep islamic roots?

Kemalists comprise of Alevis, which are de facto secularists, and secular nationalist Sunnis. Quite a big part of the Islamists comprise of religious Sunni Kurds. If Kurdistan establishes its independence and takes land from Turkey, there would be an immediate population exchange like we did in 1923, but this time on the ethnic basis rather than the religious. That would weaken the Islamist side in Turkey, making the country more secular, progressive and pro-European.

LeBrok
21-10-14, 17:34
Kemalists comprise of Alevis, which are de facto secularists, and secular nationalist Sunnis. Quite a big part of the Islamists comprise of religious Sunni Kurds. This is what I'm afraid about Kurds. Vast section of their society is susceptible to ISIS and fundamentalists ideology. However so far they prove not to be the case.

Goga
22-10-14, 05:25
Islamic State onslaught on Yazidis may be attempted genocide - U.N. -> http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/10/21/mideast-crisis-iraq-un-idINKCN0IA2PS20141021

Goga
22-10-14, 05:26
This is what I'm afraid about Kurds. Vast section of their society is susceptible to ISIS and fundamentalists ideology. However so far they prove not to be the case.
As long genocidal maniac criminals like Islamist Barzani are at power in South Kurdistan, there will be NEVER Kurdistan. I’m sure the responsible will be caught and brought to justice! According to me the main responsible of the Yezidi attempted genocide are Islamist Erdogan and Barzani! They should be brought to the Hague tribunal. Barzani is still trying to genocide the Yezidis and sending his Daesh mad dogs to Shingal to intimidate and genocide the Yezidis. There is more chance for the free Ezdixan than free Kurdistan. The Yezidis are the original Kurds, Kurds in South Kurdistan are Muslim and do look like their Muslim Arab neighbours.

Goga
22-10-14, 05:29
The REAL Kurds are the Yezidis and the PKK (Alevi Kurmanji, Yezidi, Alevi Zazaki, Rojava (Syrian) Kurds, secular Kurds etc.). Both groups fight against Islam and for Kurdistan. Arabized or Turkified Muslims. They lost their touch with Kurdistan, Kurdish identity, Kurdish history and Kurdish culture. The PKK is the best nationalistic/patrioric non-CORRUPT PAN-Kurdistan group to lead Kurdish race toward total independence.

Goga
22-10-14, 05:39
Arabized Islamic Fundamentalist Sunni Muslim ‘Kurds’ in Southern Kurdistan are trying to genocide the true original Kurds, the Yezidis. Before Islam, all ethnic Kurds were like the Yezidi. The world must take action and bring the responsible into justice! Barzani must be brought to the Hague Tribunal!

Vedun
23-10-14, 11:37
I hope so... Kurds definitelly deserve to have their own country. Just look at their effords, they produce their own tanks & fight against those neanderthals called Isis (a typical derivative of another dangerous militarian Osirian (Osiris) / Asura आसुर Abrahamic (against Brahmanic अ ब्राह्म ) Islamic offspring/derivative...

http://rt.com/news/191312-syria-kurds-home-made-armor/

http://img.rt.com/files/news/2e/b5/00/00/2.si.jpg



Whole families among Kurds, Yazides who were tortured, barbarically slaughtered by the Isis/Osiris members...
http://rt.com/files/news/2b/c5/00/00/yazidi-1.jpg

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/10/uk-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUKKBN0GA0FJ20140810

Kurdish women fighters(kshatria; this is their genetic memory) who are a nightmare, fear and trembling to the Isis (Osiris) neanderthals, degeneratives...

http://militaryvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/kurdwomen-360x217.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/czyK7__bzws/hqdefault.jpg


http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/The-first-Sirian-battalion-formed-of-Kurdish-women-7.jpg

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-12/enhanced/webdr02/2/9/enhanced-buzz-wide-5273-1385993820-25.jpg

Yazidic people(who preserved the original Mesopotamic antique pre Islamic/pre Abrahamic faith...

http://kurdishnews.net/Kurdishtimes/pfaui.jpg

http://www.tribwatch.com/coatKurdistan.jpg

Kurds, as descendants of the Kuru tribes, kshatrias, from the Kurukshetra war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_Kingdom#mediaviewer/File:%E0%B4%9A%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%A4%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AF %E0%B5%81%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%86%E0%B4%AF%E0%B5%81%E0%B 4%82-%E0%B4%89%E0%B4%AA%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%B0%E0%B4%A3%E0%B 4%99%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%99%E0%B4%B3%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%9F% E0%B5%86%E0%B4%AF%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%82_%E0%B4%AE%E0%B 4%BE%E0%B4%A4%E0%B5%83%E0%B4%95.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/1U/Ry/RpMty1g/melek-taus.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnicayana

albanopolis
23-10-14, 13:23
I hope so... Kurds definitelly deserve to have their own country. Just look at their effords, they produce their own tanks & fight against those neanderthals called Isis (a typical derivative of another dangerous militarian Osirian (Osiris) / Asura आसुर Abrahamic (against Brahmanic अ ब्राह्म ) Islamic offspring/derivative...

http://rt.com/news/191312-syria-kurds-home-made-armor/

http://img.rt.com/files/news/2e/b5/00/00/2.si.jpg



Whole families among Kurds, Yazides who were tortured, barbarically slaughtered by the Isis/Osiris members...
http://rt.com/files/news/2b/c5/00/00/yazidi-1.jpg

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/10/uk-iraq-security-yazidis-killings-idUKKBN0GA0FJ20140810

Kurdish women fighters(kshatria; this is their genetic memory) who are a nightmare, fear and trembling to the Isis (Osiris) neanderthals, degeneratives...

http://militaryvideos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/kurdwomen-360x217.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/czyK7__bzws/hqdefault.jpg


http://viola.bz/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/The-first-Sirian-battalion-formed-of-Kurdish-women-7.jpg

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-12/enhanced/webdr02/2/9/enhanced-buzz-wide-5273-1385993820-25.jpg

Yazidic people(who preserved the original Mesopotamic antique pre Islamic/pre Abrahamic(pagan, primitive, non original)) faith...

http://kurdishnews.net/Kurdishtimes/pfaui.jpg

http://www.tribwatch.com/coatKurdistan.jpg

Kurds, as descendants of the Kuru tribes, kshatrias, from the Kurukshetra war...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_Kingdom#mediaviewer/File:%E0%B4%9A%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%A4%E0%B4%BF%E0%B4%AF %E0%B5%81%E0%B4%9F%E0%B5%86%E0%B4%AF%E0%B5%81%E0%B 4%82-%E0%B4%89%E0%B4%AA%E0%B4%95%E0%B4%B0%E0%B4%A3%E0%B 4%99%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%99%E0%B4%B3%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%9F% E0%B5%86%E0%B4%AF%E0%B5%81%E0%B4%82_%E0%B4%AE%E0%B 4%BE%E0%B4%A4%E0%B5%83%E0%B4%95.jpg

http://shrani.si/f/1U/Ry/RpMty1g/melek-taus.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnicayana
Kurdish women nightmare for ISIS?
I may be wrong but personally I think they are an inspiration for Isis!
Imagine if they catch one alive!
ISIS is made of brainless people that that fight for the color of genital hair and seen a women in the front line to them is a trophy not a nightmare.
I don't know if this is a Kurdish propaganda with women but if it is then its naive. Women's place is not the front line. Most of the women that go to frontline either have their men or are looking for one there.
The bulldoze painted in fatigue is another naivety keeping in mind the speed of bulldozer.
I also sympathize with their plight for independence but exaggeration like this women decrease my sympathy.
I appreciate your different and enthusiastic point of view though.

LeBrok
23-10-14, 18:03
Kurdish women nightmare for ISIS?
I may be wrong but personally I think they are an inspiration for Isis!
Imagine if they catch one alive!
ISIS is made of brainless people that that fight for the color of genital hair and seen a women in the front line to them is a trophy not a nightmare.
I don't know if this is a Kurdish propaganda with women but if it is then its naive. Women's place is not the front line. Most of the women that go to frontline either have their men or are looking for one there. You already showed us your hyper nationalistic side, and now we learn about your chauvinism. "Women should know their place."
Didn't occur to you that women joining combat troops is a sign of Kurds being more egalitarian and their women free to choose their destiny? Same as finding women in Western arm forces. Something incompressible for ISIS, Taliban and obviously you.

albanopolis
23-10-14, 21:03
You already showed us your hyper nationalistic side, and now we learn about your chauvinism. "Women should know their place."
Didn't occur to you that women joining combat troops is a sign of Kurds being more egalitarian and their women free to choose their destiny? Same as finding women in Western arm forces. Something incompressible for ISIS, Taliban and obviously you.

In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.
I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?
ISIS fighters are a organisation where about 5 people have the ability to think. The rest are brainless criminals. They have no ideology or believes or education. They are simply crazy. They get exited by the smell of blood and the noise of battlefield, many intoxicated. Simply people left behind by the evolution. So if you think hey get angry when they see a female fighter then Either you or me has to be the Don Quixote.
The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry?

Goga
23-10-14, 22:00
The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry?Female warriors are part of Kurdish culture. Ancient Medes (ancestors of the Kurds) had female warriors / military commanders too, like all other ancient Iranic tribes. You should show some respect to other peoples culture.

LeBrok
23-10-14, 22:30
In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going. Exactly you described one of pillars of chauvinism. Women are so precious that they need to be protected, locked and decided for. I understand your appreciation for women, but why don't ask women of what they want and let them make their own choices? Ask them if they want your "higher standard" of protection?


I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?
I don't care how one journalist see this case. I say, if women want to fight it is their own decision to make.


ISIS fighters are a organisation where about 5 people have the ability to think. The rest are brainless criminals. I didn't know you know them personally, so well.


They have no ideology or believes or education. They are simply crazy. What? They are islamist and believe that Islam will conquer the world. The last time I checked it constitutes ideology and beliefs, and it takes education to learn this ideology. Many of them are educated people from the West and believe in Islamist ideology.


They get exited by the smell of blood and the noise of battlefield, many intoxicated. Exactly predisposition of most young men, either christian or muslim.


Simply people left behind by the evolution. Do you think Islamism is genetic?


The Kurds want to show civility by sending their women to the infantry? Again your chauvinism comes to the surface. You think they were send to infantry, but the truth is that they volunteered to infantry. Do you really think you have more civility because you would protect women against their will? I have a feeling that you would the best in Saudi Arabia, where men and state protects women to the max.

albanopolis
23-10-14, 22:44
Exactly you described one of pillars of chauvinism. Women are so precious that they need to be protected, locked and decided for. I understand your appreciation for women, but why don't ask women of what they want and let them make their own choices? Ask them if they want your "higher standard" of protection?


I don't care how one journalist see this case. I say, if women want to fight it is their own decision to make.

I didn't know you know them personally, so well.

What? They are islamist and believe that Islam will conquer the world. The last time I checked it constitutes ideology and beliefs, and it takes education to learn this ideology. Many of them are educated people from the West and believe in Islamist ideology.

Exactly predisposition of most young men, either christian or muslim.

Do you think Islamism is genetic?

Again your chauvinism comes to the surface. You think they were send to infantry, but the truth is that they volunteered to infantry. Do you really think you have more civility because you would protect women against their will? I have a feeling that you would the best in Saudi Arabia, where men and state protects women to the max.

I don't question women's intelligence!
But I question their physical ability? War is a physical contest as well. Obviously I am left behind the physiology of modern times but I prefer my women not fight. I prefer the women keep doing the mission that god has given to them, their beauties and their softener and politeness. The women fighters for me are disguised me.

Garrick
23-10-14, 23:19
In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.
I like to remind you a story: I think Bernard Show said ones that when Don Quixote learned how to read he become a gentleman. But when he started to believe what he was reading he became a laughing stock. Do you really believe the press when they claim that Kurdish female fighters are a nightmare for ISIS fighters?


Is that the old Islamic fear if women warriors eliminate men they losses 72 virgins, tell us about it if is true or no, one newspaper headline:

ISIS Militants Fear Being Killed by Woman and Losing 72 Virgins for Martyrdom; Kurdish Co-Commander Defending Kobane Is Female

http://http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-militants-fear-being-killed-by-woman-and-losing-72-virgins-for-martyrdom-kurdish-co-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/

albanopolis
24-10-14, 02:18
Is that the old Islamic fear if women warriors eliminate men they losses 72 virgins, tell us about it if is true or no, one newspaper headline:

ISIS Militants Fear Being Killed by Woman and Losing 72 Virgins for Martyrdom; Kurdish Co-Commander Defending Kobane Is Female

http://http://www.christianpost.com/news/isis-militants-fear-being-killed-by-woman-and-losing-72-virgins-for-martyrdom-kurdish-co-commander-defending-kobane-is-female-128058/

I feel I have said enough. This is a Kurdish independence thread and I will leave it here.
Thanks God for the american bombs that are shaking the ground!

Angela
24-10-14, 03:13
Albanopolos:In the society where I come from women are held in higher standard.
They are considered the symbol of beauty, intelligence and humanism. Many times they have exerted a lot of influence on the society.They are expected to bring to life the next generation after the present one. War causes a lot of traumatic brain diseases. How will they raise their newborn? Did you know that a female is a lot worth compared to a male? A female can bring to life 5 babies, but a male can 100 000. So a women must be protected to keep the humanity going.

I don't question women's intelligence!
But I question their physical ability? War is a physical contest as well. Obviously I am left behind the physiology of modern times but I prefer my women not fight. I prefer the women keep doing the mission that god has given to them, their beauties and their softener and politeness.

Imagine if they catch one alive!

Some of this sounds very lovely, but the realities of life and war make a mockery of much of it. Where is the society that doesn't have some level of sexual assault against women, or violence, both in the family and outside of it? Do you know the rates of sexual abuse and rape? Sometimes it's by a stranger, sometimes by an acquaintance or friend. Have you ever heard the term date rape? Even sadder, it can happen within the family. Are you aware of how many women are the victims of violence by the men in their lives (many times in the context of alcohol abuse), violence which sometimes leads to murder? A whole branch of the law is devoted to it. This is very real.

Are all men, or most men, or even a big percentage of men to be indicted in this way? Of course not, but these things happen, and girls and women have to be encouraged not to passively accept abuse, but to report the incidents and to defend themselves when they can. Sometimes, a woman can be in jeopardy from the men in her own society, in even more horrible situations, from the men in her own family, and a kind, strong, man might not be around to fight her battles for her. Better to know karate, or, if you are going to be in special jeopardy, how to handle firearms, to be able to protect yourself if needs must.

Which brings me to war, civil war as well as war against aggressors. You're from the Balkans if I remember correctly. Italy saw a lot of refugees from the Balkan Wars. How good a job did men do in terms of protecting their women during the recent fratricidal wars there? Please believe me that I mean no disrespect to the decent men who did their best to protect their families. I'm not saying they didn't try, but just maybe if women had had some part in defending their own communities, a few outcomes might have been different; some men might have been spared slaughter, some women might have been spared mass rape over extended periods. Those women would have been a lot better off, in my opinion, if they had access to weapons and knew how to use them.

I know another situation a lot better. A good number of the partisans in my area who harried the German forces in order to provide support for the allies were women. The partisans as a whole were not a huge percentage of the population. How many people of either sex have that kind of courage? The women partisans made a big difference. Some of them did actual fighting, where others gathered intelligence, carried messages, transported weapons, actions for which they were often better suited than the men particularly because they weren't suspected as much. We have video archives where these women recount how, as young girls, most of them, they hid guns in the bike baskets under laundry, or went into the mountains to bring intelligence and food. Some died, yes, after rape and torture. Of those who survived, some became politicians, important in the post war reconstruction of Italian society. I'm not a Communist, but I have tremendous respect for a woman like Nilde Lotti:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilde_Iotti

As for the various Kurdish political groups, I am not qualified to comment on what is accepted in their society, or how much of this is for propaganda purposes. I will tell you, however, that if I were a woman in the Middle East, knowing what these ISIS monsters do to people, including women and children, I would beg, borrow or steal to get my hands on the most deadly weapons available, and I'd learn how to use them. If nothing else, as a mother, I would owe it to my children.

Garrick
24-10-14, 21:08
As of today the US State Department confirmed that this weekend they have had direct talks with the PYD the main Syrian Kurdish political alliance... you may have heard of the YPG-YPJ fighters in Kobane in the news. The Turks HATE the PYD because they think of them as the Syrian version of PKK.


Today, Kurds in Kobane are on parapet of defense of free world.

If Kobane falls into the hands of jihadists the path toward South Europe can be open, what Kurdish representative says:

Kurdish official: ISIS must stop, otherwise go up in Bulgaria and Romania


http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurdish-official-isis-must-stop-otherwise-go-up-in-bulgaria-and-romania/

"In this context, Gharib Hassou representative Syrian faction Democratic Union (PYD) in Iraqi Kurdistan said, according to an interview broadcast by French website Mediapart that “currently, we (Kurdish fighters border with Turkey – No) are the only outpost that prevents formation Islamic State. If we fall we could see a domino-effect. For that, one day, may fall across Syria, Turkey, can reach up to the borders of Europe, in Romania and Bulgaria. ” Hassou’s statement reminds me of the fact that a leader of ISIS warned in July that Spain is “legitimate territory”, featuring a map of the “caliphate” that includes Romania, Bulgaria and Greece."

Of course, Serbia, Hungary, some west Balkan countries etc. are also in risk, especially since there are forces in the Balkans which can be ISIS allies.

Kurds need full the support, but there is an impression that Europe did not understand enough seriousness of situation.

One article before three years:

http://www.meforum.org/3059/europe-islamists

Aberdeen
24-10-14, 22:00
Today, Kurds in Kobane are on parapet of defense of free world.

If Kobane falls into the hands of jihadists the path toward South Europe can be open, what Kurdish representative says:

Kurdish official: ISIS must stop, otherwise go up in Bulgaria and Romania


http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurdish-official-isis-must-stop-otherwise-go-up-in-bulgaria-and-romania/

"In this context, Gharib Hassou representative Syrian faction Democratic Union (PYD) in Iraqi Kurdistan said, according to an interview broadcast by French website Mediapart that “currently, we (Kurdish fighters border with Turkey – No) are the only outpost that prevents formation Islamic State. If we fall we could see a domino-effect. For that, one day, may fall across Syria, Turkey, can reach up to the borders of Europe, in Romania and Bulgaria. ” Hassou’s statement reminds me of the fact that a leader of ISIS warned in July that Spain is “legitimate territory”, featuring a map of the “caliphate” that includes Romania, Bulgaria and Greece."

Of course, Serbia, Hungary, some west Balkan countries etc. are also in risk, especially since there are forces in the Balkans which can be ISIS allies.

Kurds need full the support, but there is an impression that Europe did not understand enough seriousness of situation.

One article before three years:

http://www.meforum.org/3059/europe-islamists

I wonder whether the EU now regrets using its military muscle to create Kosovo.

albanopolis
24-10-14, 23:02
Today, Kurds in Kobane are on parapet of defense of free world.

If Kobane falls into the hands of jihadists the path toward South Europe can be open, what Kurdish representative says:

Kurdish official: ISIS must stop, otherwise go up in Bulgaria and Romania


http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurdish-official-isis-must-stop-otherwise-go-up-in-bulgaria-and-romania/

"In this context, Gharib Hassou representative Syrian faction Democratic Union (PYD) in Iraqi Kurdistan said, according to an interview broadcast by French website Mediapart that “currently, we (Kurdish fighters border with Turkey – No) are the only outpost that prevents formation Islamic State. If we fall we could see a domino-effect. For that, one day, may fall across Syria, Turkey, can reach up to the borders of Europe, in Romania and Bulgaria. ” Hassou’s statement reminds me of the fact that a leader of ISIS warned in July that Spain is “legitimate territory”, featuring a map of the “caliphate” that includes Romania, Bulgaria and Greece."

Of course, Serbia, Hungary, some west Balkan countries etc. are also in risk, especially since there are forces in the Balkans which can be ISIS allies.

Kurds need full the support, but there is an impression that Europe did not understand enough seriousness of situation.

One article before three years:

http://www.meforum.org/3059/europe-islamists

This is a wish list of ISIS.

albanopolis
24-10-14, 23:09
I wonder whether the EU now regrets using its military muscle to create Kosovo.

No, they don't. They have created a small country who aspires to join Europe and Nato.
Contrary to Serbia who celebrated the Belgrade liberation day a month ahead of its real time ,with a North Korea style military parade, just to show Putin how much they love him.
Serbia and Greece are two nation with their stomachs in Europe and North America, but they hearts in Russia.
Albania and Kosovo are one nation with our stomachs and hearts in Europe and North America.
Understand?

Garrick
25-10-14, 01:22
I wonder whether the EU now regrets using its military muscle to create Kosovo.

Aberdeen
The aim of every Muslim is spread of Islam, in any way.

The ultimate goal is Caliphate encompassing the entire Planet, all human Muslims.

But non-Muslims (Christians, Atheists etc.) don't understand all the creative ways Muslims spread Islam.

For example, in Islam lying is permissible (directed towards non-Muslim).

You can read:

Islam 101: Lying is permissible

http://loganswarning.com/2009/12/15/islam-101-lying-is-permissible/

"Koran allows Muslims to lie in a way that can easily mean to hide their pro-Sharia agenda for non-Muslims".

...
You can think that some Muslims want be non-Muslim allies, but caution.

All Muslims on the world belong to a community - ummah.

For Muslims non-Muslims are kafirs.

Someone can read what Muslims think about kafirs.

Kafir

www.politicalislam.com/blog/kafir (http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/kafir)


...
In Pakistan there are areas where inhabitants enthusiastically embrace China.

For some reason China stood on their side against Hindus.

But, do they really love Chinese so much, and Chinese are kafirs, too.

If the Chinese were weaker they would see that love.

Same case when Muslims embrace Germany, USA, etc., especially they helped them against non-Muslims, what they think about kafirs is hidden.

...
Lying for Islam is Taqiyya.

A video about Taqiyya:

Taqiyya - lying for Islam

"Taqiyya is about deception -- lulling Western people into a false sense of security..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvlvS2a2AVE

...
(I do not offend Muslims, only stating the basic; I’m strictly against violation of civil rights just because someone is Muslim; Islam is big, encompasses many areas in the world and dialogue with Islam is necessity).

Gorgonzola
25-10-14, 02:16
Of course, Serbia, Hungary, some west Balkan countries etc. are also in risk, especially since there are forces in the Balkans which can be ISIS allies.
I didn't know this.Any idea who might they be?


Aberdeen
The aim of every Muslim is spread of Islam, in any way.

The ultimate goal is Caliphate encompassing the entire Planet, all human Muslims.

But non-Muslims (Christians, Atheists etc.) don't understand all the creative ways Muslims spread Islam.

For example, in Islam lying is permissible (directed towards non-Muslim).

I am a christian and have always been a christian, but living in Albania i have spent alot of time with muslims of course.So i had to reply here because i believe that prejudiction and propaganda is something very wrong.
Why are you lying and telling these things here?
How do you know that for all muslims its important to spread islam "for the entire planet"?
Have you ever talked with a muslim?


You can think that some Muslims want be non-Muslim allies, but caution.

All Muslims on the world belong to a community - ummah.

For Muslims non-Muslims are kafirs.

Someone can read what Muslims think about kafirs.

I have always felt like a King here and noone has ever prejudicated me or said something against me for being a christian.
You see, Garrick, your problem is that you think that all the muslims are the same and have evil intentionts.I actually understand where that comes from. Of course i believe that the muslims of ISIS are evil, and shouldnt exist, thats normal. But not every muslim is the same. There are actually countries where religious differences don't exist.For example, i am still waiting for someone to ask me: "What is your religion?". No one has ever asked me that. For the albanians the religious affiliation of one person doesnt really matter.
I answered because i have been in contact with muslims, and can say something about the matter.However of course i am against some of the muslims and what they do, i am speaking about the terrorist organizations.

Garrick
25-10-14, 02:39
I didn't know this.Any idea who might they be?



I am a christian and have always been a christian, but living in Albania i have spent alot of time with muslims of course.So i had to reply here because i believe that prejudiction and propaganda is something very wrong.
Why are you lying and telling these things here?
How do you know that for all muslims its important to spread islam "for the entire planet"?
Have you ever talked with a muslim?



I have always felt like a King here and noone has ever prejudicated me or said something against me for being a christian.
You see, Garrick, your problem is that you think that all the muslims are the same and have evil intentionts.I actually understand where that comes from. Of course i believe that the muslims of ISIS are evil, and shouldnt exist, thats normal. But not every muslim is the same. There are actually countries where religious differences don't exist.For example, i am still waiting for someone to ask me: "What is your religion?". No one has ever asked me that. For the albanians the religious affiliation of one person doesnt really matter.
I answered because i have been in contact with muslims, and can say something about the matter.However of course i am against some of the muslims and what they do, i am speaking about the terrorist organizations.

Gorgonzola
You didn't understand, I spoke in one dimension, you are talking about another (and read carefully, I did not mention the Albanians).

We can discuss anything, I can explain all what you want, very detailed, I have friends Muslims, and of course Muslims must have all human rights as citizens, it would be wonderful that there is discussion (dialogue) between Muslims and non-Muslims.

But on a particular topic, it is topic about Kurds.

Gorgonzola
25-10-14, 03:22
Today's facts,

Religious of Kosovo: Muslims 94.7%.

Religious of Albania: Muslims 58.79%, Undeclared 13.79%.

Religious of Macedonia (FYROM): Muslims: 33.3%.

It was different yesterday.

...
This is not offend, only question, maybe you can say to us how many Albanians from Kosovo, Albania and FYROM are in ISIS now, maybe Kurds know better, in Internet can be seen high numbers, but not precise.

Why do you presume the undeclared are muslims?The ones who are undeclared are either atheists or christians.
But i didn't understand what has to do the religious affiliation of a group of people whith their foreign politics.He said something to you about the foreign politics of serbia and greece and you replied with the religion of the albanians.
About your question, you would be surprised how many ethnicities have joined ISIS, even serbs are on the list.Even people who actually are not muslims.
Here you can see:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/12/world/meast/isis-numbers/

"There are many nationalities," he says. "From Norway, from America, Canada, Somalia, Korea, China, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Lebanon and other European countries such as Germany and France."A CIA source told CNN this week that more than 15,000 foreign fighters, including 2,000 Westerners, have gone to Syria.The foreign fighters come from more than 80 countries, the CIA source said.

Gorgonzola
25-10-14, 03:44
Gorgonzola
You didn't understand, I spoke in one dimension, you are talking about another (and read carefully, I did not mention the Albanians).

We can discuss anything, I can explain all what you want, very detailed, I have friends Muslims, and of course Muslims must have all human rights as citizens, it would be wonderful that there is discussion (dialogue) between Muslims and non-Muslims.

But on a particular topic, it is topic about Kurds.

Yes it is about kurds, but you talked about "all the muslims", stating that all the muslims do this and all the muslims do that and how they have a plan to "islamize the entire planet" etc. That is why i replied.
You have to realize that the muslims of europe are raised with a different culture than the muslims of the middle east.I'm saying that because i've lived in a country where christians and muslims have been working together for a very long time.You can't tell the difference between a christian and muslim albanian.Actually, most of the people i've spend the time with i didn't even know what their religion was, because just like they didn't ask me, i had no interest to ask them either.

albanopolis
25-10-14, 10:03
Today's facts,

Religious of Kosovo: Muslims 94.7%.

Religious of Albania: Muslims 58.79%, Undeclared 13.79%.

Religious of Macedonia (FYROM): Muslims: 33.3%.

It was different yesterday.

...
This is not offend, only question, maybe you can say to us how many Albanians from Kosovo, Albania and FYROM are in ISIS now, maybe Kurds know better, in Internet can be seen high numbers, but not precise.

...
Serbia today is not medium rich country (only in bombing, 1999, estimated damage was at least $100 billion). Serbia, as Montenegro, is in the process of joining EU. But Serbia can pursue independent foreign and economic policy. Russia wants to buy agricultural products outside EU, in Latin America, Asia, etc. and Serbia. Today, every government is considering how to increase exports and create a business. Serbia can increase agricultural production and export more to Russia. And not only agriculture, other business area, too.

Many was asking me whether parade was necessity. It is 70 years since the liberation of Belgrade from Nazi. I do not know if the parade was needed but certainly it is a valuable jubilee.

We can read these days about possible entering ISIS fighters in south Europe, i. e. Balkans. Serbian army is third in the Balkans, after Greek and Romanian. Maybe in today's circumstances parade made sense, not only for jubilee, I think parade would be held and that Russian president had not come, his reason was related to the fact that in the liberation of Belgrade participated jointly Yugoslav People army and Soviet Red army.

...
And return to the Kurds, in Serbia Kurds are favorite and their struggle for national affirmation.
one more thing I want to remind you: There are muslims from Sandzak with ISIS too. Or they are not part of Serbia?
About your military army: We Albanians have the White House telephone number. We can call them and your armies will be a joke.

LeBrok
25-10-14, 18:42
Yes it is about kurds, but you talked about "all the muslims", stating that all the muslims do this and all the muslims do that and how they have a plan to "islamize the entire planet" etc. That is why i replied. Good point Gorgonzola, lets keep it on topic.

You have to realize that the muslims of europe are raised with a different culture than the muslims of the middle east.I'm saying that because i've lived in a country where christians and muslims have been working together for a very long time.You can't tell the difference between a christian and muslim albanian.Actually, most of the people i've spend the time with i didn't even know what their religion was, because just like they didn't ask me, i had no interest to ask them either. It is exactly my understanding of Albania too.


"There are many nationalities," he says. "From Norway, from America, Canada, Somalia, Korea, China, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Lebanon and other European countries such as Germany and France."A CIA source told CNN this week that more than 15,000 foreign fighters, including 2,000 Westerners, have gone to Syria.The foreign fighters come from more than 80 countries, the CIA source said. Interesting new phenomenon is unfolding. Some Westerners are arriving now in Kurdistan to fight against ISIS.

albanopolis
25-10-14, 22:13
Good point Gorgonzola, lets keep it on topic.
It is exactly my understanding of Albania too.

Interesting new phenomenon is unfolding. Some Westerners are arriving now in Kurdistan to fight against ISIS.

Albania has a poverty problem. Some ISIS recruiters are using the money as a tool to inspire the conscripts. Albanian government has admitted to social dimension of the phenomenon but poverty is a long battle to be wan. The government has stepped up its efforts by putting the imams who preach jihad in jail. I wander the ISIS fighters from the west what motivates them to enter that dangerous adventure. Generally the west has networks of welfare that support the individuals in generous way.

Garrick
26-10-14, 00:04
It is exactly my understanding of Albania too.


Yes, and we all wrote about that more time. Enver Hoxha abolished all religions and declared Albania as atheist country. Although now the influence of Islam in Albania grows, Islam is much stronger among people in Kosovo and Western Macedonia.




Interesting new phenomenon is unfolding. Some Westerners are arriving now in Kurdistan to fight against ISIS.

It is great news. It means we can be more optimistic.

albanopolis
26-10-14, 12:23
Look! Women have fought in Albania too for defense of the country. When there is a shortage of men, then one does desperate things to hold on, like putting women or children to fight. But come on! There are 300 Kurdish fighters in total out of a population of 25 million Kurds, And out of them half are women. 7 MIL Krds in Iraq should be able to have a 70 000 voluntier male army.

Alan
26-10-14, 14:11
As for the various Kurdish political groups, I am not qualified to comment on what is accepted in their society, or how much of this is for propaganda purposes. I will tell you, however, that if I were a woman in the Middle East, knowing what these ISIS monsters do to people, including women and children, I would beg, borrow or steal to get my hands on the most deadly weapons available, and I'd learn how to use them. If nothing else, as a mother, I would owe it to my children.


People either romanticize the role of women in Kurdish society too much or they thing all is made up for Propaganda.


So let me explain how the Kurdish society works. In General Kurds are just like any other Near Eastern People or most People in the World in general patriachal people. If your father is a Kurd you are considered a Kurd either.

Kurdish society is generally conservativ but not as "extreme as other Middle Eastern societies". What people seem to miss out is that ethnic groups always bring their own cultural elements into their relgiion.

The conservativeness of Kurdish Society is also more based on a ethno_cultural perspective. Arabians do not cover their women in Burka solely out of religious motives. In Fact covering women up was a pre Islamic tradition in Arabia to protect them from rival kidnapping.

In Kurdish sociiety you will rarely(if any) find Burkas because it simply doesn't belong to our culture. Only a few women might wear it but it is seen in the Kurdish society as abnormally.

Now to the female Kurdish fighters- How unbelieveable it might sound to some people.Though beeing patriachal society it is part of the Kurdish tradition that women fight too if needed.
A female Peshmerga from the early 1960s 6792


It also happened quite ofte that after the leader of a tribe died or was ill the wife of this leader took his place as the new leader. And the same also happened quite recently.

Yetos
26-10-14, 16:28
Look! Women have fought in Albania too for defense of the country. When there is a shortage of men, then one does desperate things to hold on, like putting women or children to fight. But come on! There are 300 Kurdish fighters in total out of a population of 25 million Kurds, And out of them half are women. 7 MIL Krds in Iraq should be able to have a 70 000 voluntier male army.


that is because you do not understand the Kurdish problem,
Kurds exist in Iran, in Turkey, in Iraq, Syria etc, but they were always divided,

in Kobane we might have a unification of kurds,
and in Kobane the tribe that defends is the tribe that was attacked mostly, yezidis, and then the supporters of PKK YPG etc etc
this women defend their town, they did not went for war, war came to them,
it is not lack of men, it is defend the homeland town,

LeBrok
26-10-14, 21:39
Garrick, can you stop attacking Albanians for a moment?

Garrick
26-10-14, 22:13
Garrick, can you stop attacking Albanians for a moment?

Perhaps in an effort to give a satisfactory answers I crossed the line and if this is so I accept critique (I'm not attacking anyone, nor is it my style).

But everyone can see it all started with #160, where I did not even mention the Albanians, and where I quoted a Kurdish leader.

Believe me, I do not know why this had angered Albanians, link:

Kurdish official: ISIS must stop, otherwise go up in Bulgaria and Romania
http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurdi...a-and-romania/ (http://news.newsdirectory1.com/kurdish-official-isis-must-stop-otherwise-go-up-in-bulgaria-and-romania/)

Garrick
27-10-14, 01:40
You only read what your country propagandates you.


It is mistake because sources are European: Catholic Charity, Independent Catholic News and Polish NEE.

By the way, in Serbia nobody reads these sources.

...
Back to Kurds:
Kurds 'repulse ISIL push' in Syria's Kobane http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/kurds-repulse-isil-push-syria-kobane-20141026192620718485.html

albanopolis
27-10-14, 05:36
Its not my mistake here, its yours.
I was the first one who said that hates the jihadist, and also everyone who goes to fight for ISIS.
I wasn't against criticizing of islam, i've done that when talking with a muslim.You didn't understand what is the problem here.
The problem is that you try and to denigrate the figure of albanians in every occasion that you have, by making them look dangerous and a threat,which you have done in other threads too, because its in the benefit of serbs if Europe has animosity against Albanians.
You spread propaganda by doing personal attacks by going off topic in threads who talk about totally different things.

He has convinced himself that Islam of Kurdistan is like the Christianity of the west. (Because of Serbian and Greek jealousy or fear from Turkey). One of the worst Islamic terrorist came from there (Al Kurdi). But Albanian Islam is dangerous according to these guys.
They are fretting out because Sandzak Muslims have risen and claim Illyrian ancestry which I believe is true,

Alan
27-10-14, 17:56
He has convinced himself that Islam of Kurdistan is like the Christianity of the west. (Because of Serbian and Greek jealousy or fear from Turkey). One of the worst Islamic terrorist came from there (Al Kurdi). But Albanian Islam is dangerous according to these guys.
They are fretting out because Sandzak Muslims have risen and claim Illyrian ancestry which I believe is true,


Al Kurdi or Al Kirdi is a extremely common surname in Arab countries. It could(and often does) mean that far back someone had distant Kurdish origin. But yet they are at least for a century integretated part of the Arab world.

albanopolis
27-10-14, 22:00
You already showed us your hyper nationalistic side, and now we learn about your chauvinism. "Women should know their place."
Didn't occur to you that women joining combat troops is a sign of Kurds being more egalitarian and their women free to choose their destiny? Same as finding women in Western arm forces. Something incompressible for ISIS, Taliban and obviously you.

Today on google news:



Getty Images
(http://www.google.com/hostednews/getty/article/ALeqM5i2-2vLZRRlTvjeUrH91OmM0UAh8g?docId=457949332)


See realtime coverage (https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl=d7osy_s7bmHOKXMN2z474OaUt8eRM&authuser=0&ned=us&topic=w)
Kobani 'Poster Child' For Kurdish Female Fighters 'Beheaded' By IS (http://news.google.com/news/url?sr=1&ct2=us%2F1_0_s_3_1_a&sa=t&usg=AFQjCNFYlC2W2N1lMojnEpYlRiB6Vv7vnw&cid=52778641062187&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rferl.org%2Fcontent%2Funder-black-flag-rehana-kurdish-female-beheaded-islamic-state%2F26660097.html&ei=SaJOVJDxHoGngAfXloGYAg&rt=HOMEPAGE&vm=STANDARD&bvm=section&did=8329649192896203758&sid=en_us-w&ssid=w)
that's why I am against women fighters

LeBrok
27-10-14, 22:26
that's why I am against women fighters


It is not about what you want to make women happy. It is about what they want and chose as fully independent humans.

If your fully grown son decides to go to the war. Should you be able to stop him, because you are afraid your son will die? Why the double standard for women?

Gorgonzola
28-10-14, 00:22
Since we were talking about the politics of Albania before, i thought i would add this:

What the 60-plus members of the anti-Islamic State coalition are doing

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/09/25/what-the-60-members-of-the-anti-islamic-state-coalition-are-doing/

The United States-led coalition to fight the Islamic State militant group continues to grow, with numerous nations providing varying levels of backing in the form of military equipment, aid and political support. It is unclear, however, what exactly constitutes being a member of this coalition and how many nations have signed up.
Some of the states include France, Germany, Canada, UK, Italy, Czech Republic, Albania, Netherlands, Estoni, Hungary, Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Belgium, Denmark etc.

Alan
30-10-14, 01:09
Today Kurdish Peshmerga forces arrived in Kurdistan of Turkey to cross the border into Kobane.
And the first reports of harrasment against these Kurdish troops have gone around.


Let be honest here and no one can deny. These scared Turks who did not dare to attack an even weakened Assad without NATO assistance, they do not have only a problem with PKK. PKK is just an excuse for their deep rooted racism. They simply hate/fear Kurds as a whole.


BREAKING: #Kurdish (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/kurdish) forces in #Turkey (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/turkey) told Rudaw that they face constant insults by the #Turkish (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/turkish) soldiers in Suruc.


Dr. Izzadin Tamo: We feel that are in a prison. We have been surrounded by many #Turkish (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/turkish) soldiers here.
Rudaw is the most globalized news agency among Kurds with ties to the ruling party in Iraqi Kurdistan.
https://www.facebook.com/RudawEnglish/posts/693254660782440


Remember when German soldiers who were deployed with patriots in Antep, have been harrased by Turkish soldiers too?

Alan
30-10-14, 01:23
PESHMERGA CROSSING TURKEY MISTREATED BY TURKISH AUTHORITIES

Peshmerga doctor Izzettin Temo who is in the group crossing over from Turkey into Kobane has said that they are being treated badly by Turkish authorities.

Phoning Rudaw after having travelled to GAP Airport in Urfa last night (28 Nov) peshmerga doctor Izzettin Temo said, 'There are no facilities in the place we are staying. We do not have a bar of soap nor a washbasin to wash our hands. We feel like prisoners. We have no connection with the outside world. However we can do nothing but wait for our guns to reach us. Our journey is being delayed because of this.'

Temo also said that Turkish authorities in Hewlêr(Hewlêr) had not allowed the peshmerga to travel in their military uniforms and with their guns. He added, 'The Turkish soldiers are angry because the people came out onto the streets to greet the peshmerga. They are mistreating and insulting us because of this.'

Temo called on Kurdish authorities to come to their rescue and end the bad treatment.

A statement has not been made by the Peshmerga Ministry yet.

http://kurdishquestion.com/kurdistan/peshmerga-crossing-turkey-mistreated-by-turkish-authorities/381-peshmerga-crossing-turkey-mistreated-by-turkish-authorities.html


At the same time ISIS has intensived it's attacks on Kobane.

It is clear here that Turkey accepted Peshmerga deployment just because of pressure from the West. They delay the jorney so the ISIS can finish up the Kurds in Koban before reinforcement arrives.

Garrick
30-10-14, 01:52
Rudaw is the most globalized news agency among Kurds with ties to the ruling party in Iraqi Kurdistan.
https://www.facebook.com/RudawEnglish/posts/693254660782440



Alan

Thanks for this link, and reputation.

LeBrok
30-10-14, 02:08
Very uplifting profile and ideology of PYG with is Syrian Kurds army, aka People's Protection Units.


"Any freedom-loving democrat in this world can join us regardless of their religion, ethnicity, and ideology, as long as they accept our main principles of gender equality, peaceful coexistence and self-rule autonomy for all communities," he explained. "This is why YPG fighters include Kurds and Arab Muslims, secularists, Yezidis, Syriac Christians and some American and European comrades too."


Number of foreing fighters is growing.

The most widely reported cases include 43-year-old US air force veteran Brian Wilson and 28-year-old ex-US Marine Jordan Matson.
According to local sources inside Syria's Kurdish "Rojava" region, however, 10 American citizens as well as hundreds of non-Kurdish volunteers comprising Syrian Arabs, Turkish citizens and Europeans have already joined the People's Protection Units (YPG) fighting against IS jihadists.
"I give no figures, but there is a considerable number of Westerners fighting in the ranks of the YPG as well as European women comrades who've joined the Women Protection Units (YPJ). There are many Turkish comrades too," said 28-year-old Kristopher Nicholaidis, who left Greece and joined YPG in Syria five months ago.
NICHOLAIDIS WAS AN ACTIVE local artist back in Greece where he used his art and politics to defend migrants, including Muslims.
"I come from a political family and I am a democratic socialist. I used my art and politics to defend the Muslim community from attacks initiated by fascists of the Golden Dawn party, but I consider IS jihadists as 21st century fascists posing a greater global threat as they barbarically spread Islamofascism on an international level," he said. "I believe that the YPG is therefore leading the greatest anti-fascist struggle of our time by fighting against IS jihadists. I joined this struggle to fight against global fascism in defence of democracy and peace in Kurdish Rojava."
Arsalan Celik, 26, studied political science at one of the most prestigious Turkish universities but left and joined the YPG April this year.
"I am not Turkish-Kurdish, I am Turkish from the city of Mersin. I came here because the IS jihadists come from all over the world instigating a war against humanity and my government helps them. I wanted to make a practical stance against IS and YPG was the only democratic militia I found in the region fighting back against these jihadists," he said.

http://kurdishquestion.com/kurdistan/west-kurdistan/western-comrades-join-kurds-arabs-secularists-yezidis-and-syriac-christians-against-islamic-state.html

Vedun
31-10-14, 01:28
"The conservativeness of Kurdish Society is also more based on a ethno_cultural perspective. Arabians do not cover their women in Burka solely out of religious motives. In Fact covering women up was a pre Islamic tradition in Arabia to protect them from rival kidnapping. "


Rest way off topic and way distorted.

LeBrok
31-10-14, 08:16
Off topic posts moved here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30592-Balkanian-bickering

Vedun
31-10-14, 11:18
This forum is OFF topic in all threads if you ask me or others; you are insulting & discriminating me, "editing", deleting my comments, without my permission! Besides I did not write anything 'offensive', or "off" this topic at all. - Islamic religion is an offspring of Egyptian, Akkadian & Arabic cults, which were influenced by Vedic civilization before them. You have problems in understanding this, and thinking it is "off topic"; From now on I am moving from "your" forum. Delete all my comments (since you are already deleting, re-writing(editing) them one by one) and close down my account. I hope others will do the same way.

Garrick
01-11-14, 03:01
Off topic posts moved here:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/30592-Balkanian-bickering

LeBrok
It is not a happy solution, term bickering is embarrassing, and Balkans is in Europe, it was supposed to be in European topic.

And writing about Turkish authorities is linked with Kurds, more than the Balkans, small part of Turkey is in the Balkans.

Melancon
01-11-14, 04:02
Garrick, can you stop attacking Albanians for a moment?Well, life isn't always fair. People have their agendas. So it is natural for people to attack or take sides. LeBrok I know this site is not a site to spread hate, conflict or division, and I know you know that; and are trying to keep the peace. But the world for the most part, is not a fair and just place. There are bad Serbs just as there are bad Albanians.

I just wanted to let everyone know my thoughts on this; because it seems like a big issue and it gets out of hand easily. I think the best thing for me would be to try and not say anything, for now on.

(I know I don't mean to, but I often wonder if commenting on the Balkans only brings more conflict here on Eupedia. And I apologize for that. It is hard to be fair and neutral in a world that isn't fair and neutral, if you get my point.)

LeBrok
01-11-14, 04:52
LeBrok
It is not a happy solution, term bickering is embarrassing, and Balkans is in Europe, it was supposed to be in European topic.

And writing about Turkish authorities is linked with Kurds, more than the Balkans, small part of Turkey is in the Balkans.
I hope it was embarrassing to all parties involved, and intentional characterisation how the rest of Europe, particularly members of Eupedia, sees this. Instead of constant bickering, name calling, agitation, and emphasising how different you are from one another, why don't you guys talk about what joins you together, makes you alike. Instead of making more enemies, make friends, who you could visit on your vacation. You are stuck in Balkans till the end of the world, sort to speak, so lets build something everybody can enjoy and be proud of.

Garrick
01-11-14, 05:14
Well, life isn't always fair. People have their agendas. So it is natural for people to attack or take sides. LeBrok I know this site is not a site to spread hate, conflict or division, and I know you know that; and are trying to keep the peace. But the world for the most part, is not a fair and just place. There are bad Serbs just as there are bad Albanians.

I just wanted to let everyone know my thoughts on this; because it seems like a big issue and it gets out of hand easily. I think the best thing for me would be to try and not say anything, for now on.

(I know I don't mean to, but I often wonder if commenting on the Balkans only brings more conflict here on Eupedia. And I apologize for that. It is hard to be fair and neutral in a world that isn't fair and neutral, if you get my point.)

Nobody attacked in this thread, neither I nor others, thing is that LeBrok didn't want that on this topic be anything else except Kurdish issue.

He is moderator and we need to respect him, but you can see and other members of forum think he is restrictive.

What is problem, when we discuss about Kurds, it is very difficult to avoid Turkey and its president.

And you know, where is Turkey, there is naturally Balkans and Balkan people.

And then someone cannot avoid to mention people who were Ottoman allies and those who fought against Ottomans, and LeBrok moved such texts in another thread, unfortunately he (unintentionally) did not give proper name.

Garrick
01-11-14, 05:30
I hope it was embarrassing to all parties involved, and intentional characterisation how the rest of Europe, particularly members of Eupedia, sees this. Instead of constant bickering, name calling, agitation, and emphasising how different you are from one another, why don't you guys talk about what joins you together, makes you alike. Instead of making more enemies, make friends, who you could visit on your vacation. You are stuck in Balkans till the end of the world, sort to speak, so lets build something everybody can enjoy and be proud of.

All is right, and you as moderator see things different, you try that things be better, and it is for respect.

I only criticized the term bickering in the name of new thread, and it should be in European topics.

Gorgonzola
01-11-14, 07:06
I hope it was embarrassing to all parties involved, and intentional characterisation how the rest of Europe, particularly members of Eupedia, sees this. Instead of constant bickering, name calling, agitation, and emphasising how different you are from one another, why don't you guys talk about what joins you together, makes you alike. Instead of making more enemies, make friends, who you could visit on your vacation. You are stuck in Balkans till the end of the world, sort to speak, so lets build something everybody can enjoy and be proud of.

I absolutely understand you and i agree with what you are saying LeBrok.
This is the reason why i first joined this forum.
However on the occasions i had to respond on threads here, and you have noticed, it was because i found some type of attitudes towards another ethnicity innapropriate.
It would be nice for people to be friendly make friends here :)

LeBrok
01-11-14, 07:45
I absolutely understand you and i agree with what you are saying LeBrok.
This is the reason why i first joined this forum.
However on the occasions i had to respond on threads here, and you have noticed, it was because i found some type of attitudes towards another ethnicity innapropriate.
It would be nice for people to be friendly make friends here :)
If this thread was the only one becoming a battle field amongst folks from Balkans it wouldn't be an issue much. But this happens to every thread regarding Balka ethnicities or their religions. At least "Balkanian bickering" thread will never get off topic wherever it goes. People got offended by this, but it shouldn't be defensive, because it is exactly what happens either in real life or on Eupedia, in Balkanic relations. Perhaps, exactly as parallel to most relationships between siblings in families. :)

Garrick
01-11-14, 12:49
I know another situation a lot better. A good number of the partisans in my area who harried the German forces in order to provide support for the allies were women. The partisans as a whole were not a huge percentage of the population. How many people of either sex have that kind of courage? The women partisans made a big difference. Some of them did actual fighting, where others gathered intelligence, carried messages, transported weapons, actions for which they were often better suited than the men particularly because they weren't suspected as much. We have video archives where these women recount how, as young girls, most of them, they hid guns in the bike baskets under laundry, or went into the mountains to bring intelligence and food. Some died, yes, after rape and torture. Of those who survived, some became politicians, important in the post war reconstruction of Italian society. I'm not a Communist, but I have tremendous respect for a woman like Nilde Lotti:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilde_Iotti

As for the various Kurdish political groups, I am not qualified to comment on what is accepted in their society, or how much of this is for propaganda purposes. I will tell you, however, that if I were a woman in the Middle East, knowing what these ISIS monsters do to people, including women and children, I would beg, borrow or steal to get my hands on the most deadly weapons available, and I'd learn how to use them. If nothing else, as a mother, I would owe it to my children.

Angela
Same situation was in ex Yugoslavia during Second World war.

Women partisans had many duties, they were directly involved in the fighting, foster wounded, received into the house and hid partisans, perform logistical tasks, patrolling and so on, their contribution has been immeasurable.

Some women tend to be very brave, especially when defending their homes and families.

Some Muslim scholars noticed that in Muslim world is not used full potential of women, but they cannot change Quran and hadiths.

In human society it is natural that men compete against men, and women against women, but between genders should be cooperation.

Angela
01-11-14, 16:21
Angela
Same situation was in ex Yugoslavia during Second World war.

Women partisans had many duties, they were directly involved in the fighting, foster wounded, received into the house and hid partisans, perform logistical tasks, patrolling and so on, their contribution has been immeasurable.

Some women tend to be very brave, especially when defending their homes and families.

Some Muslim scholars noticed that in Muslim world is not used full potential of women, but they cannot change Quran and hadiths.

In human society it is natural that men compete against men, and women against women, but between genders should be cooperation.

I am sure that mothers in Islamic countries, like mothers everywhere, would sacrifice themselves for their children if need be. Videos of women throwing themselves in front of or on top of their children to shield them from bullets and machetes should be sufficient proof that extraordinary courage in the protection of one's children is not limited to one race or ethnicity or religion.

The only people who would be competent to judge whether there is something in Islamic theology which discourages women from taking a more aggressive role in situations where their families and communities are being attacked would be those who are scholars of Islamic theology or the history of Islamic countries. However, if the reports from Kurdistan are accurate, there are indeed women in the Middle East who are prepared to take on such a role.

Garrick
01-11-14, 17:30
What is evident, Kurdish women have shown great courage.

Some of that will go down in the history books.

Certainly, there are parallels (with local specificity) with the participation of women in the Partisan movements during World War II and other movements around the world.
...

Article from The Times of India

Kurdish Women Fighters an unprecedented example of equality in Middle East

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Middle-East/Kurdish-women-fighters-an-unprecedented-example-of-equality-in-Middle-East/articleshow/44997135.cms

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1OCl41IUAARmFq.jpg:large

Yetos
01-11-14, 17:50
I do not want to go off topic,
but except IS is also problem in Nigeria, Kogko, etc,

Garrick
02-11-14, 14:49
I do not want to go off topic,
but except IS is also problem in Nigeria, Kogko, etc,

I think it is not off topic because it has link if we watch wider context, only if we think that topic is strictly related to title, moderators can be flexible, certainly there are limits and moderators make decisions if they thinks limits are exceeded.

There are good news, in Libya pro-government forces advance:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/11/libya-forces-recapture-parts-benghazi-201411123564873706.html

LeBrok
19-12-14, 07:31
8 thousand men strong Peshmerga Kurdish army, with support of allies bombing of ISIS positions, liberated Yazidis stranded on Mount Sinja!

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2014/12/18//20141218172120305734_20.jpg


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/kurds-retake-ground-from-isil-iraq-20141218171223624837.html

LeBrok
07-01-15, 01:50
Battle of Kobane.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/80094000/jpg/_80094117_kobane_06_01_2015_624map.jpg
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30692273

Mars
24-01-15, 15:37
I support the kurdish cause. Anyways, I'd like to know if the turks think the same thing, too; apparently not.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2811338/Oh-lovely-war-Remarkable-video-shows-ISIS-fighter-strolling-right-Turkish-border-checkpoint-relaxing-chat-guards.html

LeBrok
31-01-15, 22:42
Kobane is finally liberated off ISIS, however the distraction of east part of city is enormous.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/30/2531C4FE00000578-2933258-image-a-43_1422633433960.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933258/Dead-ISIS-militants-lined-street-Kurdish-soldiers-continue-fight-reclaim-hometowns-Kobane.html

Yetos
01-02-15, 10:36
Kobane is finally liberated off ISIS, however the distraction of east part of city is enormous.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/30/2531C4FE00000578-2933258-image-a-43_1422633433960.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933258/Dead-ISIS-militants-lined-street-Kurdish-soldiers-continue-fight-reclaim-hometowns-Kobane.html

:petrified: what city?

:confused2: looks more than a a complex of karstic phenomena caves

it will take decades to clean and gather all lost ammunition, dirt, scrup, and build it again,

Goga
01-02-15, 13:24
:petrified: what city?

:confused2: looks more than a a complex of karstic phenomena caves

it will take decades to clean and gather all lost ammunition, dirt, scrup, and build it again,
Doesn't matter. We will rebuild it. The most important is that we defended our homeland against the Islamofascism and Turkish and Arab occupation and colonization. Kurdistan is and will be always a graveyard of our Islamic enemies.

Goga
01-02-15, 13:33
Btw, Barzani (and his tribe) is an Islamic leader. He is helping Turkey, ISIS and Sunni Arab terrorists. And as long South Kurdistan is being ruled by the Islamists and Islamic leaders, it will be never free. The most promising thing is Rojava (Western Kurdistan) and Shengal-Ezdixan (homeland of the Ezdi Kurds). Those areas are secular and Islam-free. And those parts of Kurdistan are being ruled by the true Kurds and not by Kurdish traitors who work for Islamofascist Turkey and Islamic Arabs. Those areas will be free very soon. Northern Kurdistan is next. We will witness a free independent Great Kurdistan very soon in the near future. Islamofascist Turkey is finished. We defeated Turkey in Kobani and we will defeat Turkey in other Northern Kurdistan cities, like Amed. Turks couldn't even take one very small town from Kurds. And Turkey tried everything! Do you really think they can take our huge cities were live millions of Kurds? POWER to the PEOPLE!

Alan
01-02-15, 19:10
Btw, Barzani (and his tribe) is an Islamic leader. He is helping Turkey, ISIS and Sunni Arab terrorists. And as long South Kurdistan is being ruled by the Islamists and Islamic leaders, it will be never free. The most promising thing is Rojava (Western Kurdistan) and Shengal-Ezdixan (homeland of the Ezdi Kurds). Those areas are secular and Islam-free. And those parts of Kurdistan are being ruled by the true Kurds and not by Kurdish traitors who work for Islamofascist Turkey and Islamic Arabs. Those areas will be free very soon. Northern Kurdistan is next. We will witness a free independent Great Kurdistan very soon in the near future. Islamofascist Turkey is finished. We defeated Turkey in Kobani and we will defeat Turkey in other Northern Kurdistan cities, like Amed. Turks couldn't even take one very small town from Kurds. And Turkey tried everything! Do you really think they can take our huge cities were live millions of Kurds? POWER to the PEOPLE!


You are now starting to go on my nerphes with your stupid accusation of leaders, you honestly have a huge brain damage if you can't control your emotions and insult every Kurd who is Muslim (basically the majority) or need to create conspiracy theories.
You call Barzani an Islamic leader and insult his tribe, while the Barzan tribe just like all Bahdinis are some of the most recent Yezidi converts and even Mesud Barzani personally admitted and any Yezidi there knows his tribe are very recent Yezidi converts themselves. Mesud Barzanis uncle and brother of Mustafa Barzani himself was a convert to Christianity and one of the biggest leaders of the Barzani tribe. Doesn't sound that Islamist now does it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Barzani

If it wasn't for this "Islamist" leader Shingal would still be under ISIS occupation, he personally send his own sons to the frontier to free Shingal. No one else but his 8000 fighters rescued the people there anyone claiming something else is a liar. if you really believe that is not the case you are less intelligent as you already sound. You are also the only Yezidi I have come across who is that harsh, insulting and brainless to believe anything he hears. Also with your secterian behave you are not serving a Greater Kurdistan. The Yezidi military leader Qasim Shesho, would slap you into the face for these words. What happened in Shingal was a tragedy but similar tragedies happened throughout Kurdish history and even recently in and around Kobani. But beeing that butthurt and claiming it was all planned and Barzani sold it to ISIS because he is Islamist is just too much.

Yetos
01-02-15, 19:34
the eternal problem of kurds,

internal division

more than 2,5 milleniums

Goga
01-02-15, 19:55
You are now starting to go on my nerphes with your stupid accusation of leaders, you honestly have a huge brain damage if you can't control your emotions and insult every Kurd who is Muslim (basically the majority) or need to create conspiracy theories.
You call Barzani an Islamic leader and insult his tribe, while the Barzan tribe just like all Bahdinis are some of the most recent Yezidi converts and even Mesud Barzani personally admitted and any Yezidi there knows his tribe are very recent Yezidi converts themselves. Mesud Barzanis uncle and brother of Mustafa Barzani himself was a convert to Christianity and one of the biggest leaders of the Barzani tribe. Doesn't sound that Islamist now does it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Barzani

If it wasn't for this "Islamist" leader Shingal would still be under ISIS occupation, he personally send his own sons to the frontier to free Shingal. No one else but his 8000 fighters rescued the people there anyone claiming something else is a liar. if you really believe that is not the case you are less intelligent as you already sound. You are also the only Yezidi I have come across who is that harsh, insulting and brainless to believe anything he hears. Also with your secterian behave you are not serving a Greater Kurdistan. The Yezidi military leader Qasim Shesho, would slap you into the face for these words. What happened in Shingal was a tragedy but similar tragedies happened throughout Kurdish history and even recently in and around Kobani. But beeing that butthurt and claiming it was all planned and Barzani sold it to ISIS because he is Islamist is just too much.
So what that Barzani was an Ezdi Kurd in the past. He is now a PROUD Islamists, he is a traitor NOW! The biggest enemies o all fEzdi Kurds are Badhini Kurds that just became very recently Muslim by force. They are jealous of us Ezdi Kurds, because we were never that weak and accepted an Arabic religion. They've a true identity crisis that's why they want to kill the Ezdi Kurds. They feel very dirty with their Arabic faith.

Also, because of Barzani there is a huge mess in Shengal and Kurdistan in general. Because of hm thousands of Ezdi died. We NEVER forgive him, and he will pay for every Kurdish tear with his blood. There's a vendetta going on, for every Ezdi victimt here will die 10 Muslims. No matter, Kurdish Muslims, Sunni Arabs or Turks. EYE for an EYE. Muslim Sunni Arabs, Mulsim Kurds will pay for every tear, mark my words. The REAL Kurds are awaken!

Barzani the Islamists is a Turk-lover and he is also an Sunni Arab lover. As long he is the leader of South Kurdistan, Kurdistan will never be free and independet, because the great powers never accept an Islamic Kurdish state in heart of the world (MiddleEast).
Because of Barzani Shengal is not liberated yet. Because of him our warriors can't properly fight the Daesh in Shengal. Barzani is helping Daesh in Shengal.

Shengal was never part of South Kurdistan, but Shengal is heart of GREAT Kurdistan. Rojava & Shengal will be free very soon. And it will be all Islam FREE. No Islam in Ezdixan & Rojava. It's now the turn of Northern Kurdistan. The real Kurds (non-Islamist) will defeat Turkey. Turkey is nothing, Turkey couldn’t even take a small Kurdishtown called Kobani. Turks proved that they’'e powerless. Turks are finished andf*cked big time. Arabs CAN'T fight, Turks CAN'T fight. At the end of the day they will be the LOSERS, like Barzani.

Just look how a MUSLIM Kurds sold Ezdi women. he sold his own blood, his own race, his own sisters. Islamists Kurds are lowest of the lowest. They have no dignity, no pride, no feel of homeland. For them Islam is more important than Kurdistan. The REAL Kurds will exterminate the Islamists in Kurdistan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp7X6pVCN1c


No Islam in Ezdixan and no Islam in GREAT Kurdistan! And very soon there will be no Islam in Northern Kurdistan. We will get Barzani later, after we are finished with the Tueks. POWER to the people!

Alan
01-02-15, 20:41
With your behave you will not get more than just some slaps left and right from Yezidi leaders personally. Discussion ends here for me.

EBlack
27-02-15, 12:40
It's funny how he talks like "we". Talking from Netherlands must be easy. Most islamist peoples at Turkey are always Kurds mostly. You talk like enemy of islam but it just proves you dont know anything about Kurds at Turkey. I can say with regardless Kurds are most Islamic people at Turkey. I can't say for everyone but this is the sad truth. They are mostly uneducated, have 10 childs per woman. Things like this. And you talk like arab enemy too. But only reason why Turkey can be though like middle east country is Kurds either. They got honor kills etc, even European people thinks Turkish people do that thinks.

I really don't like people like you. You can talk shit about Turkey from Europe with free mind. But i wonder if you have ever seen Turkey. Turkey nor Kurd people really doesn't need people like you.

And one last thing; if there will a lot of people like you in Turkey, Kurds will stay uneducated forever ever.


Sorry for my bad English.

Alan
27-02-15, 15:32
It must hurt your fascist feelings that people suddenly realize that the Turkish country and unfotunately many of it's people are racist or jihadi.

You can't fool the people. All the world sees is the Turkish government siding with ISIS. And the Turkish ruling party has most of it's support from the Turkish majority which is simply logical for anyone who is not stupid. Otherwise they wouldn't even end up as the ruling party anyways.

You seem like to try to convince the people that the Islamic party in Turkey is ruling because of the Kurdish minority, which simply again is a proof of Turkish ultrafascistic human hating view many Turks possess.

in the last elections in only 6 out of 17 pred. Kurdish provinces the ruling party could get a victory. the Rest of the 11 provinces went into the hands of the BDP/HDP. The BDP/HDP is the party in Turkey with the highest rate of female parliament members. Even so before the wannabe "secular" kemalist CHP.


Among the parties, women comprise 30.5 percent of the parliamentary club of Kurdish nationalist Peace and Democracy Party, or BDP, followed by main opposition Republican People’s Party, or CHP, ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, and opposition Nationalist Movement Party, or MHP, which have 14, 13.8, and 5.6 percent women, respectively, in their parliamentary clubs.


As for contrast the Turkish AKP won in 45 out of 65 pred. Turkish provinces. But yeah of course we Kurds are the "fanatics". And support the same ISIS who we are actually fighting.
Don't confuse conservative religious people with religious fanatic ISIS supporting members which all of us know who they are if even it's government supports them.

But even more shoking it gets when we take a look at the rest of the 20 Provinces. which all of them either voted for the ultrafascistic right wing MHP (which was involved in a raping scandal recently and is known for fascistic lynch attacks on Kurdish students).

http://manset.at/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/se%C3%A7im-2014-itirazlari-2014.jpg

and the wannabe "secular" kemalistic group who are responsible for the massacre on Greek Cypriots and are also well known for fascistic attacks on other helpless people just like recently the attack on the US Soldiers in Istanbul or even ordinary American citizens in Bodrum.


I can't say for everyone but this is the sad truth.

The sad trurth is that you are a butthurt Turkish fascist who is making up nonsense in the believe that this all has even any value for the independence movement of Kurds. If Kurds should have no country, because they are "not educated and make on average 10" so shouldn't 2/3 of the world. Especially not Turkey where the people are with Jihadists and harrasment on women is on daily basis.



They are mostly uneducated.

Yes, thats true but on what scale does this prove anything beside that the Turkish government and Turkish state has never done enough for it's Kurdish population in comparison to other provinces.

It is also true that the Kurdish provinces are the most underdeveloped in all of Turkey and still to this day get the least share of the countries budget. Let's take a look which provinces in Turkey have the highest percentage of poverty.

http://dosyalar.hurriyet.com.tr/harita.jpg





have 10 childs per woman.

Give me a statistic which says Kurds on average have 10 Children.

It is true with poverty comes more children, but I have never heard a statistic speak about 10 Children. Only statistics talk about 4.


According to Turkish government statistics, the average Kurdish woman in Turkey gives birth to about four children, more than double the rate for other Turkish mothers.
http://www.ibtimes.com/kurdish-majority-turkey-within-one-generation-705466

But don't worry with economical stability even Kurdish birthrate sinks in what you favor. But still is big enough for me.



http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/08052014
In Kurdistan, Birth Rates Lower than in Rest of Iraq

Iraq is still cranking out more babies than the rest of the world. Iraqi women have 4.5 children, compared to a global average of 2.5, as reported by a 2011 Unicef survey. This is the second-highest fertility rate in Western Asia, where only Yemeni women are having more children.


Within Iraq, women in the Kurdistan Region have a lower average (3.1). The most populous governorate, Sulaimani, has the smallest fertility rate by far (2.3), while women in the northern Dohuk region have the most children (3.9).


But nice try. And another prime example of Turkish insecureness and thinking that "everything more typical Western = good". The West has a birth rate problem and want's a rise in this too. Having less children is not a "goal" someone should be looking for.

But this is again very typical of many Turks and Turkey. They think "secularism" is defined by birth rate. Turkish wannabe seculars are quick in copying things from West when it fits their fascistic view like laizism and which Europeans want to actually get rid off. And they think with this they will be automatically viewed as more "secular, liberal or democrat, western". How about you first start to give native minorities the same rights Europeans give foreign minorities? How about you first get rid of your ultra_fascistic sentiments and give any people of differen't religious background the same rights? "secularism" doesn't start with clothing in Western fashion and brag about low birth rate.

If you think low birthrate is something preferable than this is your opinion. I prefer a birthrate of 3 over a birthrate 1.5.


Turkey nor Kurd people really doesn't need people like you.

I see, first you insult the Kurds and now you want to talk in behalf of them.


You don't need to excuse for your "bad english" all you need to do is to excuse for your stupidness and lies you try to spred hear, but this won't help you. We already had quite a few Turkish members who spred allot of the same nonsense. Iff you keep on that track it won't be a too long time for you at this board.

EBlack
27-02-15, 23:54
I really did not want to read after i read "fascist". This what usualy fanatic Kurds says at Turkey when you go against with them. I will just answer simply. I argue with people like you a lot here. Because i supported Kurd movement a lot, went a lot of protest, there was a lot of fanatic people like you. And if you ask to me, i gladly (be sure), gladly accept them to go their lands, form their country etc.
(edit here)I know they say AKP is supporting ISIS, I don't want to believe this.


We defeated Turkey in Kobani and we will defeat Turkey in other Northern Kurdistan cities, like Amed. Turks couldn't even take one very small town from Kurds. And Turkey tried everything! Do you really think they can take our huge cities were live millions of Kurds? POWER to the PEOPLE!
What is this guy really saying with his all heart? Can you fight with your all heart too? Just come. Kurdish army wants you!

I was just angry back then, because it seems really ridicilous to me when someone writes some things at Europe like we will rebuild, we will kill all Arabs and Turks, we will do whateverwhatever. Yea dude, come and live here. At 1 hour you will just understand you can't form a shit at Turkey. I'm really sick of arguing this. And when it comes to politic, its not really my favourite at English.

First of all, I don't have any politics group. And voted for Kurdish Party at last election. Fascist, eh?
Second of all, Turkey "can't" make better Eastern sides of Turkey. Because people usualy doesn't want to go there, because of war killings. I did not say even "terror" eh?
Third of all, 10 childiren issue, You didn't heard about this sure, but i see this in everyday :)
Fourht of all , I don't care about Turkeys economic, but just want to live better. There is a reason behind why Erdogan sayed make 3 childrens, you know? It would be just distopia, if this places will be all Kurdish, looking to women harsly with their "apaçi hairstlyes". Yet i don't say they are bad people. Their culture is different i'm saying.

Yet i wrote this things, but i really didn't want to write. You say to people who argue with you "fascist" a lot. Yet you are just doing same things.

you are a butthurt Turkish fascist
Funny. Çave başe.

Alan
28-02-15, 00:24
I really did not want to read after i read "fascist". This what usualy fanatic Kurds says at Turkey when you go against with them.

You actually insulted the Kurds collectively as backward, 10 child having, religious fanatics (Kurds who actually fight against ISIS). All debunked lies. How much more fascist can it get? Do you really believe you can fool us?

I don't call people fascists who don't act as such but your tendency towards this is strong. One of the prime examples of a Turk who I respect and love more than many Kurds is Ismail Besikci.





I
will just answer simply. I argue with people like you a lot here. Because i supported Kurd movement a lot,
Sure you do that. And Hitler actually wanted to deport the Jews to Madascar because he felt they need a country of their own.



went a lot of protest, there was a lot of fanatic people like you.
Sure I am the fanatic.


And if you ask to me, i gladly (be sure), gladly accept them to go their lands, from their country etc.
Good one out of too many who do not support the idea of a Kurdish country
We need actions not talk.


(edit here)I know they say AKP is supporting ISIS, I don't want to believe this.

I don't care if you believe it or not. There are 100% proofs that they did and still do. Even British PM said that. And everyone was witness during the clashes of Kobani. So once again you can't fool anyone here.

EBlack
28-02-15, 00:40
You need action, but you won't get any. Just keep talking hard at forums. I'm sure someday you will get back to your country as Doctor. Your arguing way is just funny. I'm %100 sure, i did more than you do for Kurd movement.
And if you think saying 10 children, religiously fanatic thinks are insulting, you really don't know a lot things. It just naturaly comes when you have low education. My parents are from Kars. (if you don't know city at eastern side of Turkey, which it should be at Kurdistan they say.) My father had 2 brother, 4 sister. Same goes for my mother too. From your perspective i insulted my own family. Yea, good luck with that thoughs. Im glad now that Kurdish Party at Turkey just understood they should hug all Turkey, not just Kurds like you.

Sile
28-02-15, 02:02
i am ashamed of using Kurds to fight our battles and still not give them or recognise them as a nation....we are users

LeBrok
28-02-15, 20:13
You need action, but you won't get any. Just keep talking hard at forums. I'm sure someday you will get back to your country as Doctor. Your arguing way is just funny. I'm %100 sure, i did more than you do for Kurd movement.
And if you think saying 10 children, religiously fanatic thinks are insulting, you really don't know a lot things. It just naturaly comes when you have low education. My parents are from Kars. (if you don't know city at eastern side of Turkey, which it should be at Kurdistan they say.) My father had 2 brother, 4 sister. Same goes for my mother too. From your perspective i insulted my own family. Yea, good luck with that thoughs. Im glad now that Kurdish Party at Turkey just understood they should hug all Turkey, not just Kurds like you.
Welcome to Eupedia EBlack.

LeBrok
28-02-15, 20:16
i am ashamed of using Kurds to fight our battles and still not give them or recognise them as a nation....we are users
Well, we still have to wait for Kurds to do the first step of proclaiming independence. Then we can support and recognize the new country. I have a feeling that their political elite doesn't feel that the perfect time came yet.

Goga
28-02-15, 22:14
i am ashamed of using Kurds to fight our battles and still not give them or recognise them as a nation....we are usersKurds have friends in Europe. Italians are one of closest European friends of the Kurds. The Italians are one the greatest people ever. Thank you!

Goga
28-02-15, 22:14
Well, we still have to wait for Kurds to do the first step of proclaiming independence. Then we can support and recognize the new country. I have a feeling that their political elite doesn't feel that the perfect time came yet.Are you sure? If the US wanted Kurdistan today there would be Kurdistan. The American government is against Kurdistan.
But it’s true that Kurds are divided. Kurds in Rojava (western Kurdistan), PKK and the Ezdi Kurds want an independent Kurdistan, while Barzani the ISLAMIST and his traitor clan in South Kurdistan is the closest allie of Turykye. He is a Turkish spy. He's not part of Kurdish nation, he wants to be part of the Islam Nation. Americans know that. We must get rid of Barzani first, because there are many Kurdish traitors who are against Kurdistan. They are not Kurds, they are Muslims, the Islamists, who are part of the Islam Nation.
Barzani KILLED 10000 Ezdi Kurds and because of him another 10000 harmless women and children who got captive are now and are now at DAESH hands.
The real Kurds will NEVER forgive what Barzani the ISLAMIST did to a Kurdish nation. He will pay for it!!
The USA know very well who is a Kurdish traitor and who is not. And as long Barzani, the Muslim son of a dog, has power in South Kurdistan there will be NEVER independent South Kurdistan. The USA is simply not trusting him. We must get rid of the traitors first. Then South Kurdistan will be free too.

But my people, the Ezidi Kurds, Kurds in Rojava, YPJ, JPG, PKK etc. are about to found a free Kurdistan in Rojava and Ezdixan. This part of Kurdistan is free and free of Islam! There will be NEVER Islam in Ezdixan, homeland of my people. My people HATE Islam much more than the Jews hate Islam.

EBlack
28-02-15, 23:38
LOL. Good luck with that. Hope no dissapointed when you come to "your homeland"

Goga
01-03-15, 01:29
Sunni Muslim Kurd, Ziyad Terko, deputy of Serbest Bapîrî (PDK, party of traitor Barzani) was arrested on suspection of collaboration with DAESH terrorists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEJUYD86lE The REAL Kurds actually have at this moment great fun in my homeland. They kill at least 100 Sunni Muslim DAESH terrorist every day, in Kobane, Cizîrê Kanton and Shengal! And it will be like this for many years to come. Killing Sunni Muslim DAESH terrorists is great fun!

Goga
01-03-15, 01:40
REAL Kurds: Ezdi Forces, YPG, HPG etc. celebrate brotherly the liberation of Kurdistan areas in West Kurdistan, Rojava, in my homeland Shengal, Ezdixan.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-91AqjWwAAiN-f.jpg:large

Alan
01-03-15, 05:46
Goga you act worse than a Gray Wolve. You are splitting the nation because you act like an too emotional children. If you keep insulting any other Kurds who have a different opinion as yours(which includes me) I will personally as a Kurd ask for a mod to take actions against you. I had to take your nonsense for too long now. I don't need to take these constant insults.

KurMad
01-03-15, 16:06
Goga, We Kurds form a very homogeneous nation yet one of the most diverse in the world for a population of ~40 million. We did not have a problem back then living side by side and we do not have a problem now nor in the future because our bond is our ethnicity, common history and common struggle.

Kurdishpatriot
01-03-15, 17:14
We just have to wait till shengal is liberated completely and daish ain't bringing any trouble again. We need stability first, then it will probably change goga's mind as he sees how good and nice it became in shengal, and all places where yezidis live. Probably better than it will ever be for decades or perhaps hundreds of years. Shaikhan where my father come from has been taken by peshmerga fully and they have it very nice there and have a stable life. They can go to school etc without getting bombed by arabs. Also, goga what do you think of gorran party with neshirwan mustafa?

Goga
01-03-15, 22:14
Goga, We Kurds form a very homogeneous nation yet one of the most diverse in the world for a population of ~40 million. We did not have a problem back then living side by side and we do not have a problem now nor in the future because our bond is our ethnicity, common history and common struggle.You are still very young, You don't understand how thislife works. It's an eye for an eyeand atooth for a tooth.
Of course we will exterminate ALL Sunni Muslim Daesh subhuman monkeys in Kurdistan, that's not a problem.

The problem is those thousands of innocent civilian Ezdi Kurds who got killed. Why did just happen? They have relatives and we want to revenge our loses. A lot Ezdi Kurds lost their father, brother, mother, sister, daughter, son! THIS WILL BE NEVER FORGOTTEN AND DEFINNATELY NEVER BE FORGIVEN! They got killed by Sunni Muslim terrorists in the name of Islam and those leaders who are responsible for this genocide will pay greatly, they will never escape their fate! Those politicians who are responsible for this genocide will pay greatly, one by one.

Goga
01-03-15, 22:19
goga what do you think of gorran party with neshirwan mustafa?Like most parties in South Kurdistan Gorran is not a real good Kurdish party. It's an Islam party. PKK is the BEST. They saved our native Ezdi religion. They are our true brothers in race, culture and history. They care about us, their own people, and they will NEVER betray us, their own people. PKK is the true pan-Kurdistan party that we fight to the end until independent Great Kurdistan is achieved.
As long as I do exist and as long my kinsmen do exist we will be always PKK!

If you want to know whether a party is alright or not, you have to look at their position toward the Turks and the position of Islam in that party. If that party is a friend of Turkey, it's not a good party. If Islam is important in that party, it's not a good party.

Kurdishpatriot
01-03-15, 23:17
Like most parties in South Kurdistan Gorran is not a real good Kurdish party. It's an Islam party. PKK is the BEST. They saved our native Ezdi religion. They are our true brothers in race, culture and history. They care about us, their own people, and they will NEVER betray us, their own people. PKK is the true pan-Kurdistan party that we fight to the end until independent Great Kurdistan is achieved.
As long as I do exist and as long my kinsmen do exist we will be always PKK!

If you want to know whether a party is alright or not, you have to look at their position toward the Turks and the position of Islam in that party. If that party is a friend of Turkey, it's not a good party. If Islam is important in that party, it's not a good party.
It is a secularist leftist/centralist group from suleymani, they are nice and progressive. Pkk is a bit weird with all its turkish spies etc. And statements like shengal need its own canton or some bs like that. gorran is best option for southern kurdistan i find, and they are in their first,( or second) election already second place.

Goga
01-03-15, 23:35
It is a secularist leftist/centralist group from suleymani, they are nice and progressive. Pkk is a bit weird with all its turkish spies etc. And statements like shengal need its own canton or some bs like that. gorran is best option for southern kurdistan i find, and they are in their first,( or second) election already second place.PKK is the only Kurdish party I trust!
And what is wrong with the Ezdi Kurds having own canton? Ezidis have their own religion and it is best for us that we govern ourselves and have our rules in our homeland in accordance to our religion. Only then we can survive. The Yezidism will be an official religion of Ezdixan. Also, Independent Great Kurdistan will be a federal state. And Ezdixan will be a federal separate entity inside a federal Great Kurdistan. Rojava will be a separate entity inside Great Kurdistan. Northern, Eastern Kurdistan will be a federal entity inside Great Kurdistan. Why should Ezdixan not be a federal entity inside Great Kurdistan? We deserve it more than others. We are ALL Kurds, people need their 'own space' to be fully free.

Yetos
02-03-15, 05:11
PKK is the only Kurdish party I trust!
And what is wrong with the Ezdi Kurds having own canton? Ezidis have their own religion and it is best for us that we govern ourselves and have our rules in our homeland in accordance to our religion. Only then we can survive. The Yezidism will be an official religion of Ezdixan. Also, Independent Great Kurdistan will be a federal state. And Ezdixan will be a federal separate entity inside a federal Great Kurdistan. Rojava will be a separate entity inside Great Kurdistan. Northern, Eastern Kurdistan will be a federal entity inside Great Kurdistan. Why should Ezdixan not be a federal entity inside Great Kurdistan? We deserve it more than others. We are ALL Kurds, people need their 'own space' to be fully free.

no matter I am not Kurd,
Goga believe me, such suggestions indeed create a dialogue, and push inner diplomacy to unification,
rather accusing someone, which push the oposite

LeBrok
05-03-15, 18:29
Interesting interview with king Abdullah of Jordan with Fareed Zakaria.
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/03/01/jordans-king-abdullah-this-is-a-third-world-war-by-other-means/

EBlack
05-03-15, 22:03
Sorry for you if PKK is the only Kurd Party you trust. PKK,HDP or Abdullah Öcalan already said they don't want to form Kurdistan in Turkey but they want their rights as nation. In todays its everywhere on TV actually.

LeBrok
07-03-15, 21:40
This is interesting, and can hint on huge divide happening between Iraq and Kurds.


Iraqi Kurdistan oil tanker unloaded its cargo in Israel, says Reuters

http://d3dyqb2m69ozbp.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ytu.jpg
(IraqiNews.com) Reuters revealed on Friday that an oil tanker from Iraq’s Kurdistan region, blocked for months from unloading its cargo in Texas under a lawsuit filed by the Iraqi government, had sailed back to the Mediterranean Sea and delivered its cargo to Israel.
The agency quoted commercial sources and data of tracking ships, “An oil tanker from Iraq’s Kurdistan was blocked for months from unloading its cargo in Texas under a lawsuit filed by Baghdad, it sailed back to the Mediterranean Sea and delivered its cargo to Israel.”
This week, the data showed that the tanker was sailing at full charge toward the Israeli port of Ashkelon before shutting down satellite communications on February 22nd . It appeared again on Friday, empty, according to Reuters.
http://www.iraqinews.com/features/iraqi-kurdistan-oil-tanker-unloaded-cargo-israel-says-reuters/

LeBrok
07-03-15, 21:55
Iranians shia fighters are lead a major role in fight against ISIS or Daesh in Iraq. There is a huge concern in US that Iraq is slowly slipping into Iran's influence. However, it might be a good news for Kurdistan, as it seems that Iraq will never come back the way it existed before the Daesh mess.
I was always a proponent of splitting, after Saddam, Iraq into 3 independent countries. Sunni, Shia and Kurdistan. Iraq was always an artificial post imperial concept of British politics. It was only kept alive by dictators. Now dictators are gone and so is Iraq.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/03/03/iran-tikrit/24329823/

Talking about dictators. What do you guys think about new TV series "Tyrant"? I think is right on the timing and money, and well done.

Yetos
08-03-15, 01:59
Iranians shia fighters are lead a major role in fight against ISIS or Daesh in Iraq. There is a huge concern in US that Iraq is slowly slipping into Iran's influence. However, it might be a good news for Kurdistan, as it seems that Iraq will never come back the way it existed before the Daesh mess.
I was always a proponent of splitting, after Saddam, Iraq into 3 independent countries. Sunni, Shia and Kurdistan. Iraq was always an artificial post imperial concept of British politics. It was only kept alive by dictators. Now dictators are gone and so is Iraq.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/03/03/iran-tikrit/24329823/

Talking about dictators. What do you guys think about new TV series "Tyrant"? I think is right on the timing and money, and well done.


i can not see it in TV yet,
but I hope that say who supported dictators after WW2

LeBrok
08-03-15, 02:32
i can not see it in TV yet,
but I hope that say who supported dictators after WW2
It is a fictional tyrant somewhere from Near East. It plays in recent years, because they alluded to death of Kadafi, the tyrant is afraid of revolution.

The women are so gorgeous that I'm tempted to be a tyrant, lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant_%28TV_series%29

http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/tyrant-cast.jpg

Goga
19-03-15, 17:06
" IS likely committing genocide against Yazidi minorityin Iraq: UN

Geneva (AFP) - Islamic State jihadists may have committed genocide in trying to wipe out the Yazidi minority in Iraq, the UN said Thursday in a report laying out a litany of atrocities.

IS "may have committed all three of the mostserious international crimes -- namely war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide," the United Nations human rights office said in a statement.

According to the report, the attacks appeared intended "to destroy the Yazidi as a group," which "strongly suggests" IS is guilty of "genocide" against the Yazidi. "


http://news.yahoo.com/likely-committing-genocide-against-yazidi-minority-iraq-un-110328646.html

Goga
19-03-15, 17:13
The guilty ones will pay for it! They will be taken into justice, including Sunni terrorist failed state Turkey, Sunni terrorist Erdogan, Kurdish Sunni Muslims, like tribal leader Barzani and his clan members, and many other so called 'Kurdish' parties in Southern Kurdistan. They all tried to wipe out MY PEOPLE, the Ezdi Kurds.

When the fake corrupt Kurds and Kurdish traitors will be defeated, there will be a free and independent Kurdistan.

Independent Kurdistan will rise in Rojava (Western Kurdistan) and Ezdixan (homeland of the Ezdi Kurds). It will be a start. In those parts of Kurdistan live the REAL Kurds and I'm 200% sure we (the REAL Kurds) will establish an independent Kurdistan!

Goga
19-03-15, 17:19
" Report of the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights on the human rights situation in Iraq in the light of abuses committed by the so called Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant and associated groups* "

http://docs.dpaq.de/8711-ohchr_report_iraq_-_18.03.2015_embargoed.pdf

Goga
19-03-15, 17:22
Never forget that ISLAM committed a genocide against the Ezdi Kurds! Barzani, Sunni Muslim Kurds, Erdogan and Turks, Sunni Arabs and even some Israeli Jews will be STOPPED! They are FINISHED, all of them have Ezdi Kurdish blood at their hands, their days are counted!

LeBrok
21-03-15, 20:34
Here is another clue that Iraq as we knew it is over. There is no other option for Kurds but to separate. Waiting to long could be fatal. With time Shia Iraq/Iran coalition will manage to clear up most of Northern Iraq off Daesh. When this happens they will concentrate their forces on Kurdish independence issue and Kurd's oil fields. The window of opportunity to become independent is now when stronger powers are concentrated on big IS/Daesh problem, and before Shia Iraq rebuilds and "acquires" back control of "their" Kurdistan.


U.S. Gen. Petraeus says Iran, Shiite militias bigger threat to Iraq than Islamic Statehttp://ekurd.net/u-s-gen-petraeus-says-iran-shiite-militias-bigger-threat-to-iraq-than-islamic-state-2015-03-21

LeBrok
21-03-15, 21:02
What do you guys think about future of Iraq?

I think it will be totally split in 3 forever. Possibly Shia part with Baghdad will join Iran, or at least will become Iran controlled vassal state, sudo independent. Together they will try to control Sunni part of Iraq. Depending on how much resources they will throw at it and how strong will be the post Daesh resistance of Sunni tribes, Shia might let some parts of Iraq go to become independent Sunni country, a new country on the map. This might take few years to settle.
When it comes to Kurdistan I think it will become independent within a year.

I was pretty much having similar views about Iraq, splitting in 3 independent countries, since Bush Junior invasion, in 2003. I mentioned this on Eupedia in many threads, pointing to this as the only solution for peace in Iraq. This post colonial artificial construct, Iraq, shouldn't exist in first place. My prophecy is about to come true.

Goga
22-03-15, 03:17
What happened to my previous post? I wrote the truth. Why are you censoring me? Never heard of a free speech? After the GENOCIDE of 3 August 2014, Ezdi Kurds deserve and I'm 200% sure will get their own region called Ezdixan. Nobody is protecting the Ezdi Kurds, and therefore we will protect ourselves. We got betrayed by Sunni Muslim Kurds (Barzani clan) for many times in our history. We will never ever going to trust Sunni Muslim Kurds again! This betrayal will be never forgotten and will be never forgiven!

My HERO, the PKK leader Cemil Bayık: Kurds cannot be ruled from Ankara anymore


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ywiwl3oEpE&feature=youtu.be

Goga
22-03-15, 03:32
What do you guys think about future of Iraq?

I think it will be totally split in 3 forever. Possibly Shia part with Baghdad will join Iran,Once again, Iraq is huge country, I'm sure it will split in 4 or 5 regions. After the genocide, the Ezdi Kurds, will rule over their ancient ancestral homeland by themselves. They have been living on those land for thousands of years. Sunni Muslims are our enemies, they are trying and already committed many genocides on us, the Ezdi Kurds. We, the Ezdi Kurds, have a right to live on our ancestral homeland and we a right to be ourselves, who we are. After what happened in Shegal in 3 Agugust 2014 we will never forgive Sunni Muslim Kurds in South Kurdistan for that genocide. They betrayed us. It would NEVER happen if Barzani didn't betray us. He sold Shengal to Sunni Muslim Semites (Arabs) and Turks = DAESH. If he will have a chance again he will sell Shengal one more time to Sunni Arabs, Sunni Turks and terrorist Sunni Muslim Kurds. That's why Ezdi Kurds need to look after themselves! We don't trust anybody again! We have to take care of our selves!

Look how happy Sunni Arab and Sunni Kurdish 'citizens' in Shengal are after Ezdi Kurds were betrayed by Barzani and Shengal region was sold out to DAESH by Barzani. How can we ever trust Sunni Muslims again? If they get a chance they will again commit a GENOCIDE on us again. So, never again. And that's why Ezdixan will be established!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CApGz3kWUAAIhm1.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CApG0AjWoAArg04.jpg

Goga
22-03-15, 03:41
I'm telling the truth. Do not censor (delete) my posts!

We always delete racist comments, even though they are your true thoughts or your version of truth.

Goga
22-03-15, 03:52
Am I lying when I write that Sunni Muslim terrorist suicidal genocidal subhuman DAESH monkeys don't want to evolve, don't want to change? They want to live in accordance to what is written 1000 years ago. They want for ever to stay in the year of 1000 AD because they can't handle the post-modern era. They don't have enough IQ for technology, computers, modern-day philosophy etc. They don't want to change and don't want to evolve. It's much easier for them to stay in the year 1000 AD and to live in accordance of some kind of old dated antique book written by an Arab from a desert! Then, they don't have to think...