PDA

View Full Version : New study claims that Irishmen descended from Turkish farmers



DejaVu
02-07-14, 21:39
New study claims that Irishmen descended from Turkish farmers (Anatolian not Turkish)
http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/new-study-claims-that-irishmen-descended-from-turkish-farmers-83217437-237788351.html

A new study has revealed that many Irish men may be able to trace their roots back to Turkey.
Focusing on the role of the Y chromosome, which is passed from father to son, the research indicates Turkish farmers arrived in Ireland about 6,000 years ago, bringing agriculture with them.
And they may have been more attractive than the hunter-gatherers whom they replaced.

The genetic patterns for Irish females differ from those of men.
“Most maternal genetic lineages seem to descend from hunter-gatherers,” an author of the study, Patricia Balaresque, told the London Times.
“To us, this suggests a reproductive advantage for farming males over indigenous hunter-gatherer males during the switch to farming.
“Maybe, it was just sexier to be a farmer,” she added.
Eighty-five per cent of Irish men are descended from farming people from the Middle East and especially Turkey, according to the research that was conducted by scientists at the University of Leicester.
The switch from hunting and gathering to farming was a crucial one in human development. Increased food production meant that populations were able to grow.
In Britain, 60-65 per cent of the population has the Turkish genetic pattern, while in parts of the Iberian Peninsula it’s almost as the same as in Ireland.
The research contradicts what was previously thought about Irish genealogy – that hunter-gatherers from Spain and Portugal who survived the Ice Age were our main genetic ancestors.
“This particular kind of Y chromosome follows a gradient, gradually increasing in frequency from Turkey and the southeast of Europe to Ireland, where it reaches its highest frequency,
” Mark Jobling from the University of Leicester told the Times.
We are saying that most of that original hunter-gatherer male population in Ireland was probably replaced by incoming agricultural populations,” he added.

Fire Haired14
02-07-14, 23:10
That title is meant to be controversial and surprising. I hate it when people do raciest shit like this. Everyone knows R1b L23 arrived in west Europe from west Asia, and it probably actually came with Indo Europeans. Nothing was called Turkey just 2,000 years ago and R1b L23 could have first come out of many regions in west Asia, and we don't know what they were autosomally. Irish can trace about 100% of their overall ancestry to stone age European hunter gatherers and farmers, Y DNA is just a paternal lineage, which is prone to founder effects.

Maciamo
03-07-14, 10:33
I coudln't find the original paper, but when they say:

"the research indicates Turkish farmers arrived in Ireland about 6,000 years ago, bringing agriculture with them"

they obviously mean that haplogroup R1b was brought by Neolithic farmers. It's unbelievable that there are still population geneticists who clinch to that idea.

Ultimately it could be more or less correct to say that the Irish Y-chromosomes have their origins in Turkey and with the rise of agriculture, but only because Neolithic herders from Turkey (or Armenia or Iran or northern Mesopotamia) migrated to the Pontic Steppe, then invaded Europe in the Bronze Age and reached Ireland c. 4000 years ago (2000 years after Neolithic farmers).

sparkey
03-07-14, 17:14
That title is meant to be controversial and surprising. I hate it when people do raciest shit like this. Everyone knows R1b L23 arrived in west Europe from west Asia, and it probably actually came with Indo Europeans.

The thing is, most people don't know. Oppenheimer's sensational headlines about the British Isles being full of Basques are still the most recent in many people's memories. Although this headline is also stupid, at least it's a step in the right direction that people are becoming aware that Oppenheimer's theories are no longer accepted.


Nothing was called Turkey just 2,000 years ago and R1b L23 could have first come out of many regions in west Asia, and we don't know what they were autosomally. Irish can trace about 100% of their overall ancestry to stone age European hunter gatherers and farmers, Y DNA is just a paternal lineage, which is prone to founder effects.

Aren't the Irish about 15% ANE? You think this is almost entirely ANE that was already in hunter gatherers and farmers, and not brought by Indo-Europeans?

Fire Haired14
03-07-14, 21:04
Aren't the Irish about 15% ANE? You think this is almost entirely ANE that was already in hunter gatherers and farmers, and not brought by Indo-Europeans?

If the Indo Europeans who spread in Europe are who the experts say they were(Yamna culture, etc.), they were essentially European genetically. There are plenty of mtDNA samples from the Yamna and Catcacomb cultures to prove maternally they had the same hunter-farmer mix(with plenty of European-specific lineages) only found in Europe. Indo Europeans were EEF-WHG-ANE mix and their ANE probably mostly came from eastern Europe. and so from the same source as the ANE ancestry found in Scandinavian hunter gatherers.

JS Bach
03-07-14, 23:41
Ultimately it could be more or less correct to say that the Irish Y-chromosomes have their origins in Turkey and with the rise of agriculture, but only because Neolithic herders from Turkey (or Armenia or Iran or northern Mesopotamia) migrated to the Pontic Steppe, then invaded Europe in the Bronze Age and reached Ireland c. 4000 years ago (2000 years after Neolithic farmers).

I used to more strongly believe that, but now I'm only about 70 percent sure of that. I have some trouble reconciling:

1) The Bell Beaker R1b results (it would help if we had better resolution)
2) The Basque autosomal (and mtdna) results - one of the highest European R1b (85%) but one of the lowest ANE (11.4%)
3) The published findings of R1b among Native American tribes (also it would help if we had better resolution)

Goga
04-07-14, 01:17
Nothing was called Turkey just 2,000 years agoTurkey and Turks didn't even exist 1000 years ago!

matbir
04-07-14, 12:58
they obviously mean that haplogroup R1b was brought by Neolithic farmers. It's unbelievable that there are still population geneticists who clinch to that idea.
Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings that R1b in Western Europe is result of spread of agriculture. I haven't seen even one academic paper suggesting that R1b founder effect could be simultaneous to spread of Indo-European languages. Mainstream science attributed the spread of R1b in Western Europe the Neolithic revolution for last four years. In contrast, anyone who tries to connect spread of R1b to the expansion of Indo-European languages ​​invents exotic theories that have no scientific background. E.g. Theory of IE conquest through western Europe with nearly total population replacement on more than 1 million square kilometers covered mostly with dense forest, difficult to access mountains, swamps and islands located far away from continental Europe, that is just preposterous, or some twisted theory about Basque's origins, or theory that R1b men produces more boys. While widely accepted theory of spread of agriculture need no such conditions, if farmers ware able to produce enough food to sustain 7 to 9 times higher population density it is enough to them to come to Europe dominated by hunter-gatherers and start to farming to produce 70% R1b ( farmers) and 10 I ( hunter gathers).
Theory that R1b was brought by Indo-Europeans is just wishful thinking.

bicicleur
04-07-14, 14:26
Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings that R1b in Western Europe is result of spread of agriculture. I haven't seen even one academic paper suggesting that R1b founder effect could be simultaneous to spread of Indo-European languages. Mainstream science attributed the spread of R1b in Western Europe the Neolithic revolution for last four years. In contrast, anyone who tries to connect spread of R1b to the expansion of Indo-European languages ​​invents exotic theories that have no scientific background. E.g. Theory of IE conquest through western Europe with nearly total population replacement on more than 1 million square kilometers covered mostly with dense forest, difficult to access mountains, swamps and islands located far away from continental Europe, that is just preposterous, or some twisted theory about Basque's origins, or theory that R1b men produces more boys. While widely accepted theory of spread of agriculture need no such conditions, if farmers ware able to produce enough food to sustain 7 to 9 times higher population density it is enough to them to come to Europe dominated by hunter-gatherers and start to farming to produce 70% R1b ( farmers) and 10 I ( hunter gathers).
Theory that R1b was brought by Indo-Europeans is just wishful thinking.

1/ there is no ancient R1b/R1a DNA in Europe prior to IE expansion into Europe

2/ estimated time of expansion of R1a/R1b matches first IE expansions from the steppe

3/ first agriculturists were very primitive, no plough, no draugth animals, no milk processing nor digesting

4/ IE people brought a lot of novelties and another, superior economy, that how there languages could spread

Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings : please reveal your sources

matbir
04-07-14, 15:53
1/ there is no ancient R1b/R1a DNA in Europe prior to IE expansion into Europe

2/ estimated time of expansion of R1a/R1b matches first IE expansions from the steppe

3/ first agriculturists were very primitive, no plough, no draugth animals, no milk processing nor digesting

4/ IE people brought a lot of novelties and another, superior economy, that how there languages could spread

Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings : please reveal your sources
1. There are two Bell-Beaker samples from Kromsdorf, Germany. Article (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.22074/abstract)
Moreover there is only three other samples from central Europe. Article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Ancient+DNA+from+European+Early+Neolithic+Fa rmers+Reveals+Their+Near+Eastern+Affinities)
2. Coalescent time for European R1b points exactly to spread of agriculture, R1b-U106 8742+/-1551 YBP and R1b-S116 8630+/-1529 YBP. Article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=lbk+y+chromosome) (2010)
Later paper even argued that European R1b could be even older. Article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21865258) (2012)
Coalescent time of R1a points exactly to spread of Indo-European languages, R1a-M417 ~5800 YBP. Article (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ejhg201450a.html) (2014)

Archeologists and historians proved long time ago that spread of Celtic languages was late process connected to spread of Hallstatt and later La Tene cultures.
Statements 3 and 4 may be true, but irrelevant to the topic.

I would gladly read academic paper about connection between R1b and Indo-Europeans if there was any. Cloud you provide one?

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 04:13
1/ there is no ancient R1b/R1a DNA in Europe prior to IE expansion into Europe

2/ estimated time of expansion of R1a/R1b matches first IE expansions from the steppe

3/ first agriculturists were very primitive, no plough, no draugth animals, no milk processing nor digesting

4/ IE people brought a lot of novelties and another, superior economy, that how there languages could spread

Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings : please reveal your sources
you are right both r1a and r1b migrated out of india into europe the homeland of haplogroup R is india (hence we call ourselves indoeuropeans)
r1a came in from the east and r1b from the west.

LeBrok
12-12-14, 05:20
you are right both r1a and r1b migrated out of india into europe the homeland of haplogroup R is india (hence we call ourselves indoeuropeans)
r1a came in from the east and r1b from the west.
You are killing us with your "science". Are you Vedun or his apostol.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 05:47
You are killing us with your "science". Are you Vedun or his apostol.
i´m not into mainstream science :rolleyes2: truth always reveals itself

sometimes pictures reveal more than thousand words..

6917
6918
6919
6920
6921

motzart
12-12-14, 05:54
i´m not into mainstream science :rolleyes2: truth always reveals itself

sometimes pictures reveal more than thousand words..

6917
6918
6919
6920
6921

You're right they look just like leprechauns.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 06:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixkd9phZX4g

https://borissoff.wordpress.com/tag/sanskrit-russian/

Middle English brother, from Old English brōþor, from Proto-Germanic *brōþēr (compare West Frisian broer, Dutch broeder, German Bruder, Danish broder), from Proto-Indo-European *bʰréh₂tēr (compare Irish bráthair, Latin frāter, Ancient Greek φράτηρ (phratēr), Tocharian A pracar, B procer, Russian брат (brat), Lithuanian brolis, Persian برادر (barādar), Sanskrit and Hindi भ्रातृ (bhrātṛ)).

oh such coincidences.. same haplogroup and same protolanguage :) ignorance is not bliss

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 16:08
the so called irish celtic people migrated out of india as well as the so called slavic poeple!
the irish have OCA1b but are genetically the same as indians (haplogroup R)

http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/

genetics(science) never lies!

6928
6929

this african child has the same tyrosinase defect except it has a different haplogroup than irish people
6930

LeBrok
12-12-14, 16:30
t

http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/

genetics(science) never lies!

6928
6929


You must have a genetic sequencer in your eyes, lol.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 16:44
You must have a genetic sequencer in your eyes, lol.
i dont need one. cause any man with knowledge in genetics should know the irsh are dominated by haplogroup R as well as the indians (UNDENIABLE)

and also you should know where red and blonde hair come from (oca1b) tyrosinase defect common in all different phenotypes

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/337981147006160611/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/337981147006423708/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/337981147006160612/

joeyc
12-12-14, 21:46
R* originated in Central Asia/Siberia. So did N*, Q*, O*. Some of these guys moved to the middle east and other went to East Asia/North America. The Split happened somewhere between 40.000 and 50.000 AFAIK. Indians are genetically intermediate between East and West Eurasians.

Sile
12-12-14, 21:53
R* originated in Central Asia/Siberia. So did N*, Q*, O*. Some of these guys moved to the middle east and other went to East Asia/North America. The Split happened somewhere between 40.000 and 50.000 AFAIK. Indians are genetically intermediate between East and West Eurasians.

R* became extinct and was renamed to MA-1

basal R-m207 has origins in Malaysia

basal R1 has originas in central asia

basal R2 has origins in north India


read karafet paper june 2014

Aberdeen
12-12-14, 22:49
R* became extinct and was renamed to MA-1

basal R-m207 has origins in Malaysia

basal R1 has originas in central asia

basal R2 has origins in north India


read karafet paper june 2014

Mal'ta Boy, also known as MA-1 (short for Malta 1) is Y haplotype R. Close to the root of R, I would say, looking at a diagram of the placement, but R nevertheless. There is no such thing as a Y haplotype MA-1.

The Karafet paper deals with the much earlier splitting off of haplogroups M and P from haplogroup K.

Greying Wanderer
13-12-14, 08:14
Unbelievable is that here on this site people ignore scientific findings that R1b in Western Europe is result of spread of agriculture. I haven't seen even one academic paper suggesting that R1b founder effect could be simultaneous to spread of Indo-European languages. Mainstream science attributed the spread of R1b in Western Europe the Neolithic revolution for last four years. In contrast, anyone who tries to connect spread of R1b to the expansion of Indo-European languages ​​invents exotic theories that have no scientific background. E.g. Theory of IE conquest through western Europe with nearly total population replacement on more than 1 million square kilometers covered mostly with dense forest, difficult to access mountains, swamps and islands located far away from continental Europe, that is just preposterous, or some twisted theory about Basque's origins, or theory that R1b men produces more boys. While widely accepted theory of spread of agriculture need no such conditions, if farmers ware able to produce enough food to sustain 7 to 9 times higher population density it is enough to them to come to Europe dominated by hunter-gatherers and start to farming to produce 70% R1b ( farmers) and 10 I ( hunter gathers).
Theory that R1b was brought by Indo-Europeans is just wishful thinking.

Well if that's true then we should find lots of LBK era R1b ydna over the next few years.

If it's not, we'll find lots of LBK era G ydna and R1b only in later eras.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 18:16
irish people descend from central asian r1b albinos

6944

it is a scientific fact that red hair and blonde hair is tyrosinase defect and has nothing to do with adaptation to low uv or cold climate, northerners still have the highest skin cancer rate(my aunt sadly died of skin cancer) and get rickets(which debunks the theory white skin gets more vitamin d) even in their latitude and many people in my family had eyes surgeries because of oca(which is not funny at all)!!! not to tell you almost everyone must wear glasses, its not funny i am slavic white european i for sure know what i am speaking about. i am into scientific facts which prove we are oca1b not übermenschen! hitlers theory based on denial of tyrosinase defect(oca1b) and inferiority complex lead us to racism and a false feeling that our recessive genes are something superior to the rest of humanity which has healthy melanin levels..

http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/

so here we have our ginger irish and germanic blonde "aryan" übermenschen
6942

6943

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-27653107/stock-photo-portrait-of-an-african-albino-man-with-heavily-freckled-lips-and-skin.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/14268211977
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12592938275

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 18:49
Rickets in children was a problem in Ireland up to the mid 20th century, but due to better nutrition in our population over recent decades, it was thought to have been eradicated. However, a number of cases of the condition have been seen here in recent years. (http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=21926)

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=21926 (http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=21926)
how possible when our white skin is supposedly adapted to low uv and better at vitamin d production(hoax)

even seals and polar bears have dark skin to absorb sun rays as well as frying pans, it is impossible for us whites to produce any vitamin d cause we lack melanin! only way is to supplement or eat oily fish..

ever wondered why in europe and america all products are fortified with vitamin d?!
http://www.nysopep.org/images/Prevention_VitaminD.jpg


http://www.arkive.org/harp-seal/pagophilus-groenlandicus/image-G66383.html
http://www.tickypages.com/2007_Nov/Zoo_31.jpg
http://www.lecreuset.co.uk/Shallow-Frying-Pans.aspx

LeBrok
13-12-14, 20:00
(http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=21926)
even seals and polar bears have dark skin to absorb sun rays as well as frying pans, it is impossible for us whites to produce any vitamin d cause we lack melanin! only way is to supplement or eat oily fish.. This is crazy and inaccurate beyond belief!



ever wondered why in europe and america all products are fortified with vitamin d?!
Without escaping into conspiracy and fantasy world, the simple answer is: Because we spend too much time inside buildings, wear clothing all the time and apply sunscreen in the summer. All this 3 things will produce vitamin D3 deficiency in us. We don't spend half a year working the fields like our ancestor were.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 21:53
your ignorance does not surprise me..

Let's first define Albinism though:

Albinism is the PARTIAL or TOTAL loss of pigmentation. It affects the color of the skin, the color of the hair and the color of the eyes and it can affect the texture of the hair.

What this means is that there are people/Whites who are still albino WITH pigmentation. This is OCA2.

ANY LOSS OF PIGMENTATION IS ALBINISM. Albinism can also cause straightening of the hair

Good, now we've got that out of the way.

There are 4 types of Albinism. Each type affects the pigmentation of the hair, skin and eye color.

This information is NOT hard to find. I got this from the NATIONAL INSTITUTE of HEALTH: AKA NIH

Here is the link, it was done in 2004, it has NOW been found that the mutation of the alanine allele (SCL24A5-an African gene for pigmentation) accounts for the THR111 gene found in Whites and THIS IS WHY they are more genetically related to Asians.

Oculocutaneous albinism - Genetics Home Reference


THR111 Alleles
http://paspcr.med.umn.edu/Commentary...commentary.pdf
Allelic Variations of SLC24A5

There are many genes that affect skin pigmentation, what it doesn't take away is the fact that ANY LOSS IN PIGMENTATION IN THE HAIR, EYES AND SKIN, no matter how minute is in fact ALBINISM.

It's not meant to be mean, it's just a fact. I always though there was just one type!


Oculocutaneous Albinism Type 1

Disease characteristics. Oculocutaneous albinism type 1 (OCA1) is characterized by reduced synthesis of melanin in the skin, hair, and eyes, associated with ocular findings of nystagmus, reduced iris pigment with iris translucency, reduced retinal pigment, foveal hypoplasia with significantly reduced visual acuity usually in the range of 20/100 to 20/400, and misrouting of the optic nerves resulting in alternating strabismus and reduced stereoscopic vision. Individuals with OCA1A have white hair, white skin that does not tan, and fully translucent irises that do not darken with age. At birth, individuals with OCA1B have white or very light yellow hair that darkens with age, white skin that over time develops some generalized pigment and may tan with sun exposure, and blue irises that change to green/hazel or brown/tan with age. Visual acuity may be 20/60 or better in some individuals.


Oculocutaneous albinism, type 2

Tyrosinase-positive oculocutaneous albinism (OCA, type II) is an autosomal recessive disorder in which the biosynthesis of melanin pigment is reduced in skin, hair, and eyes. Although affected infants may appear at birth to have OCA type I, or complete absence of melanin pigment, most patients with OCA type II acquire small amounts of pigment with age. Individuals with OCA type II have the characteristic visual anomalies associated with albinism, including decreased acuity and nystagmus, which are usually less severe than in OCA type I. OCA type II is the most common type of oculocutaneous albinism in the world.

The gene OCA2, when in a variant form, the gene causes the pink eye color and hypopigmentation common in human albinism. Different SNPs within OCA2 are strongly associated with blue and green eyes. Hair color is the pigmentation of hair follicles due to two types of melanin, eumelanin and pheomelanin. Generally, if more melanin is present, the color of the hair is darker; if less melanin is present, the hair is lighter. Blond hair can have almost any proportion of phaeomelanin and eumelanin, but both only in small amounts. More phaeomelanin creates a more golden blond color, and more eumelanin creates an ash blond. Blond hair is common in many European peoples, but rare among peoples of non-European origin. Many children born with blond hair develop darker hair as they age. Red hair ranges from vivid strawberry shades to deep auburn and burgundy, and is the rarest fully distinct hair color on earth. It is caused by a variation in the Mc1r gene and believed to be recessive. Red hair has the highest amounts of phaeomelanin and usually low levels of eumelanin, and is the rarest natural human hair color.

Oculocutaneous albinism, type 3

Oculocutaneous albinism, type 3: A rare inherited disorder characterized by slightly reduced pigmentation in the skin, eyes and hair (due to a genetic mutation of the TYRP1 gene). Type 3 is characterized by some pigmentation of the iris despite the complete absence of tyrosinase which is needed for the production of melanin which gives the skin, hair and eyes their color. Those with OCA3 may have, Reddish-brown skin, Ginger hair, Red hair, Hazel iris, Brown iris. Type 3 also has the milder eye problems than the other types.

Light-skinned Whites with tyrosinase-negative albinism have pale skin and hair color ranging from white to yellow; their pupils appear red because of translucent irides. Blacks with the same disorder have hair that may be white, faintly tinged with yellow, or yellow-brown. Both Whites and Blacks with tyrosinase-positive albinism grow darker as they age. For instance, their hair may become straw-colored or light brown and their skin cream-colored or pink. People with tyrosinase-positive albinism may also have freckles and pigmented nevi that may require excision.

This form of albinism was referred to as 'rufous oculocutaneous albinism (ROCA)' when it was found in southern African blacks. In blacks the disorder is characterized by bright copper-red coloration of the skin and hair and dilution of the color of the iris. Manga et al. (1997) suggested that albinism caused by mutation in the TYRP1 gene should be referred to as OCA3

In New York City rather numerous cases are seen in Puerto Rican families from the Aguadilla-Arecibo area of northwestern Puerto Rico. Albinism in dark-skinned persons such as Puerto Ricans is not always obvious because freckled skin and reddish hair may be present. Red reflex on transillumination of the iris and nystagmus are important clues to the diagnosis.

In tyrosinase-variable albinism, at birth the child's hair is white, his skin is pink, and his eyes are gray. As he grows older, though, his hair becomes yellow, his irides may become darker, and his skin may even tan slightly. The skin of a person with albinism is easily damaged by the sun. It may look weather-beaten and is highly susceptible to precancerous and cancerous growths. The patient may also have photophobia, myopia, strabismus, and congenital horizontal nystagmus.


Oculocutaneous Albinism, Type 4

Disease characteristics. Oculocutaneous albinism type 4 (OCA4) is characterized by hypopigmentation of the skin and hair plus the characteristic ocular changes found in all other types of albinism, including nystagmus; reduced iris pigment with iris translucency; reduced retinal pigment with visualization of the choroidal blood vessels on ophthalmoscopic examination; foveal hypoplasia associated with reduction in visual acuity; and misrouting of the optic nerves at the chiasm associated with alternating strabismus, reduced stereoscopic vision, and an altered visual evoked potential (VEP). Individuals with OCA4 are usually recognized within the first year of life because of hypopigmentation of the hair and skin and the ocular features of nystagmus and strabismus. Vision is likely to be stable after early childhood. The amount of cutaneous pigmentation in OCA4 ranges from minimal to near normal. Newborns with OCA4 usually have some pigment in their hair, with color ranging from silvery white to light yellow. Hair color may darken with time, but does not vary significantly from childhood to adulthood. This form of albinism is rarer than OCA2, except in the Japanese population.


22. Squamous-cell carcinoma in situ in a patient with oculocutaneous albinism

Now, of course Caucs are more genetically related to asians. But they they share a common ancestor. the Africans that were over there became you guessed it, ALBINO and that is a genetic mutation causing a difference in the allele genes. Over time they became a sub-species of the originals, all of whom were African. There's a reason it traced back to Africans. I will provide you with ancient pics of Asian statues.

It's funny how Asians (specifically in China, Japan etc...) and Whites are Caucs, who share no phenotypical likeness are the same, but Africans who actually do look alike aren't Black lol....

Back to meat:


Here is Whites' theory:

The original Black settlers of Europe TURNED WHITE because they became FARMERS, who ate only farm produce devoid of Vitamin D. And, the lessened solar duration and intensity in the Northern regions REQUIRED a Whitening of the skin for faster absorption of UV radiation and production of Vitamin D. So then, White skin absorbs Sunlight FASTER? Let's see.

1) Modern Whites in Europe are Germanics, Slavs, and Turks. They have nothing to do with ancient ANYBODY in Europe. They are migrants from Central Asia in the CURRENT era. Any encyclopedia will document their entry into Europe.

2) These Whites in Central Asia were Nomads - NOT FARMERS! Their diet was rich in Meats and FISH! Plus they had plenty of Sunshine - in Kazakhstan-south, for eight months of the year, the average UV intensity is level 8 out of a maximum 11. Thus there was no reason to turn White there!

3) Whites did NOT bring agriculture to Europe, Blacks from the South did, and they did NOT turn White.

4) European Whites in the early current era were NOT farmers - Farming is very RECENT to European Whites!.

5) The Whitest of the Whites in Europe - the Germans, inhabited Costal WESTERN Europe and Scotland - regions rich in fish and game animals - ancient Germany and modern Germany are different areas.

The Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (56-118 A.D.) said this about them: For my own part, I agree with those who think that the tribes of Germany are free from all taint of intermarriages with foreign nations, and that they appear as a distinct, unmixed race, like none but themselves. Hence, too, the same physical peculiarities throughout so vast a population. All have fierce blue eyes, red hair, huge frames, fit only for a sudden exertion. They are less able to bear laborious work. Heat and thirst they cannot in the least endure; to cold and hunger their climate and their soil inure them. Does THAT sound like FARMERS?

During the time of Tacitus, Germans inhabited Caledonia (Scotland), the rest of Britain was inhabited by Blacks, they were the original settlers of Britain, and STILL BLACK! Tacitus describes them thusly: "The DARK complexion of the Silures, their usually curly hair, and the fact that Spain is the opposite shore to them, are an evidence that Iberians of a former date crossed over and occupied these parts. Those who are nearest to the Gauls are also like them, either from the permanent influence of original descent, or, because in countries which run out so far to meet each other, climate has produced similar physical qualities."

Moving along, let's examine some other things huh?

6) A Human being requires ONLY 15 minutes of Sunshine, on face or hands, TWICE a week, for good health! Thus no reason for Black people to turn White.

But for the sake of argument, lets accept this bit of White myth, that Blacks TURNED White because of Vitamin D deficiency - Lets test it. Think of the absurdity of this: Black humans survived in Europe for about 35,000 years, then all of a sudden, their bodies were not getting enough vitamin "D": forcing them to lighten their skin. The problem is: logically, BEFORE there could be any evolutionary movement toward lighter skin - the population would have DIED OUT from Rickets! This supports Albinism, but there were Blacks

Rickets

Rickets is a softening of bones in children due to deficiency or impaired metabolism of vitamin D, phosphorus or calcium, potentially leading to fractures and deformity. The Roman physician Soranus reported deformation of the bones in infants as early as the first and second centuries AD. He attributed these deformities as resulting from the failure of Roman mothers to properly nurture and clean their children, but didn't directly implicate poor diet in the condition. Rickets wasn't defined as a specific medical condition until 1645, when an Englishman named Daniel Whistler gave the earliest known description of the disease while still studying medicine.

Rickets was very common in industrialized cities around the turn of the twentieth century, both in the United States and in Europe. It was most common among the poorer, less privileged people and often affected infants. Still, there was not a complete understanding that the condition was caused by poor nutrition, although it was considered a potential cause, along with lack of fresh air and sunshine. In the late nineteenth century, strides had been made toward finding a cure for rickets. At the London Zoo in 1889, lion cubs were fed a diet of boneless lean meat. When some cubs developed florid rickets, they were treated by the addition of cod liver oil and crushed bones to their meals, and made a full recovery.

What causes rickets? Regardless of the type of rickets, the cause is always either due to a deficiency of vitamin D, calcium, or phosphate. Three common causes of rickets include nutritional rickets, hypophosphatemic rickets, and renal rickets.

So to carry the absurdity to its logical conclusion: supposing that these Black people turning White, survived thousands of years of Rickets - in a non-deformed state, and then appeared as modern Whites. Then why would MODERN Whites STILL get Rickets? Wasn't the whole point of evolution to develop White skin, just for the "SUPPOSED" reason that Sunlight could be quickly and efficiently absorbed by the White skin, just to AVOID such things? You would have built up the resistance to sustain Rickets. Albinism is the stabilized norm for White skin, but there are variations of Albinism and not all lost total pigmentation.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 22:18
by the way every tribe living in the coldest environments is brown skinned as the polar bear under his fur because melanin absorbs heat from uv rays! from nenets to eskimos to tibetians to south american indians all of these groups lives in the coldest climate have brown skin!!!

yes we whites are perfectly adapted to cold low uv environment (irony)
http://www.imt.ie/clinical/2011/01/re-emergence-of-rickets-and-vitamin-d-deficiency.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2305147/Mark-Wright-suffers-sunburn-skiing-Austrian-mountains.html

The following OCA2 variants, all located in the first intron of the gene, have been linked to blue eye inheritance; together, they form a haplotype that occurs in 90% of individuals seen with blue or green eye color, but can also be seen in 10% of individuals with brown eye color
http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color
http://www.gfmer.ch/genetic_diseases_v2/gendis_detail_list.php?cat3=808

LeBrok
13-12-14, 22:49
your ignorance does not surprise me..

Let's first define Albinism though:

Albinism is the PARTIAL or TOTAL loss of pigmentation. It affects the color of the skin, the color of the hair and the color of the eyes and it can affect the texture of the hair.

What this means is that there are people/Whites who are still albino WITH pigmentation. This is OCA2.

ANY LOSS OF PIGMENTATION IS ALBINISM. Albinism can also cause straightening of the hair

Good, now we've got that out of the way.

There are 4 types of Albinism. Each type affects the pigmentation of the hair, skin and eye color.

This information is NOT hard to find. I got this from the NATIONAL INSTITUTE of HEALTH: AKA NIH

Eurasian blondism is more complicated than sporadic OCA gene mutation causing albinism, which is deemed as a disease. Here is a list of known genes involved in depigmentation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color





Here is Whites' theory:

The original Black settlers of Europe TURNED WHITE because they became FARMERS, who ate only farm produce devoid of Vitamin D. And, the lessened solar duration and intensity in the Northern regions REQUIRED a Whitening of the skin for faster absorption of UV radiation and production of Vitamin D. So then, White skin absorbs Sunlight FASTER? Let's see.

1) Modern Whites in Europe are Germanics, Slavs, and Turks. They have nothing to do with ancient ANYBODY in Europe. They are migrants from Central Asia in the CURRENT era. Any encyclopedia will document their entry into Europe. Completely wrong. Recent multiple genetic studies proved that most genetic material in Europeans comes from local hunter gatherers and neolithic farmers from Near East who showed up in Europe about 9 kya. Recent Asian genetic influence is not bigger than 20%.


2) These Whites in Central Asia were Nomads - NOT FARMERS! Their diet was rich in Meats and FISH! Plus they had plenty of Sunshine - in Kazakhstan-south, for eight months of the year, the average UV intensity is level 8 out of a maximum 11. Thus there was no reason to turn White there! They are not exactly as white as Northern Europeans, are they? Regardless, all people of Northern latitudes are of white or olive skin. Also from genetic research we know that skin whitening was a long and gradual process on a scale of thousands of years. You know, a looooooooong time.

To prove your point show us one example of a tribe/ethnicity of northern latitudes whose skin colour is black or dark brown. Just one example dude! Or perhaps you think that Eskimos are recent migrants for India too?


3) Whites did NOT bring agriculture to Europe, Blacks from the South did, and they did NOT turn White. What a pile of crap! Neither whites nor blacks. Farmers from Near East of whatever their skin tone was.



4) European Whites in the early current era were NOT farmers - Farming is very RECENT to European Whites!. Did you hear about archaeology? Vedun, I'm losing my patience with you again.


5) The Whitest of the Whites in Europe - the Germans, inhabited Costal WESTERN Europe and Scotland Wow, Germans lived in Scotland! It is not only a fantasy of yours, you come from different Universe.


During the time of Tacitus, Germans inhabited Caledonia (Scotland), the rest of Britain was inhabited by Blacks, I think you just lost it, dude.



Moving along, let's examine some other things huh? lets not, it stinks already.


6) A Human being requires ONLY 15 minutes of Sunshine, on face or hands, TWICE a week, for good health! Thus no reason for Black people to turn White. lol, thank you doctor Vedun.


But for the sake of argument, lets accept this bit of White myth, that Blacks TURNED White because of Vitamin D deficiency - Lets test it. Think of the absurdity of this: Black humans survived in Europe for about 35,000 years, then all of a sudden, their bodies were not getting enough vitamin "D": forcing them to lighten their skin. The problem is: logically, BEFORE there could be any evolutionary movement toward lighter skin - the population would have DIED OUT from Rickets! This supports Albinism, but there were Blacks
Again your spatial and temporal affliction is acting up. The march north was slow through thousands of years. You know, thousands of years and thousands of kilometers, looooong time and loooong way. Long enough to pick up whitening mutations.



So to carry the absurdity to its logical conclusion: supposing that these Black people turning White, Show us one northern tribe who is black! And I will believe in your absurdity.

This is a map of skin colour. Do you see that it is gradient? The darkest skin in tropic area and the lightest closer to poles? Do you see the pattern, and regardless of continent.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Unlabeled_Renatto_Luschan_Skin_color_map.svg/300px-Unlabeled_Renatto_Luschan_Skin_color_map.svg.png

LeBrok
13-12-14, 22:58
by the way every tribe living in the coldest environments is brown skinned as the polar bear under his fur because melanin absorbs heat from uv rays! from nenets to eskimos to tibetians to south american indians all of these groups lives in the coldest climate have brown skin!!! Very light brown and their diet is rich in vitamin D3, far away from dark brown or black skin.

http://www.naho.ca/inuit/files/2010/12/inuit-kids.jpg
For comparison there is a blonde european girl on the left and maybe on in the center.


You don't have even one example of black tribe who lives up north, rith? Give up your insane hypotheses.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 23:35
first of all i am not any vedun(no clue who you refer to) or whomever you try to associate me with so to make it clear!

you are constantly in a state of denial even when i showed you load of clear evidence backed up by science


You don't have even one example of black tribe who lives up north, rith? Give up your insane hypotheses.
what is black in your view?! because black people have the broadest diversity of all people on earth and by the way 90% of people on earth have brown skin(falsely called black)

so here we go with a list of people living in the coldest climates on earth showing your skin colour map to be a hoax created to make the impression albinism is an adaptation to cold environment:

tibetian men
http://www.plateauculture.org/sites/plateauculture.org/files/imagecache/medium-wide-295/geoimage/image-node-747-file-612.jpg
https://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/2957/30088/f/149808-A-Tibetan-man-0.jpg

eskimo men
http://www.der.org/films/images/at-the-winter-sea-ice-camp.jpg
http://image1.masterfile.com/getImage/841-02923987em-Portrait-of-Eskimo-man-wearing-caribou-skin--Spence-Bay--Boothia-Penin.jpg

quechua indian
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-111148589/stock-photo-cusco-peru-june-quechua-indian-man-performs-in-cusco-peru-on-june-quechua-are-known.html

alaskan indian
http://indianlaw.org/node/1009

nepalese sherpa
http://asiancorrespondent.com/77238/everest-hero-highlights-flood-threat-in-himalayas/

should i go on?!..


Comparisons of skin temperature responses of the foot during local cold exposure to water and air were made between highland Quechua Indian and United States white adult male subjects. Indians were tested at high altitude in Nuñoa, Peru (4000 m) and whites were tested at sea level in the United States. During tests in cold air, Indians were able to maintain substantially higher skin temperatures than whites. Within each race-group, subjects who showed cold-induced vasodilatory responses had, in general, higher skin temperatures. Yet the Indians who did not show this response were still able to maintain warmer skin temperatures than whites who did respond with cold-induced vasodilations. Results from tests in cold water and cold air suggest that Quechua Indians have a thermal advantage over U. S. whites under conditions of moderate local cold stress, but that this advantage becomes less marked with increasingly acute cold exposures. The higher skin temperatures that were found during afternoon exposures were attributed to diurnal variations in body temperatures, and investigators were cautioned against making comparisons of subjects tested at different times during the day.
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41449283?uid=3737528&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21105447957213

so again here you habe another proof brown skin is needed even in cold low uv environments because melanin collects heat from the sun rays to warm up the body this explains why whites are albinos not adapted to either cold or warm environments and why polar bears and seals both have dark skin to stay warm in cold climate by collecting heat from sunrays just like a black frying pan! this also explains why we whites get sunburn even in winter and why we lack vitamin d without fish or supplements because oca1b individuals simply lack melanin to produce vitamin d otherwise they would not sell fortified food with calcium and vitamin d in sunny california!!!

the fact we whites are albinos also explains why we are the minority on this planet and also why the irish red hair is the rarest hair colour on earth and why blondism red hair and blue eyes are common in all albino species from humans to snakes regardles of race or species..

LeBrok
13-12-14, 23:47
first of all i am not any vedun(no clue who you refer to) or whomever you try to associate me with so to make it clear!

you are constantly in a state of denial even when i showed you load of clear evidence backed up by science


what is black in your view?! because black people have the broadest diversity of all people on earth and by the way 90% of people on earth have brown skin(falsely called black)

so here we go with a list of people living in the coldest climates on earth showing your skin colour map to be a hoax created to make the impression albinism is an adaptation to cold environment:



Why are you showing pictures of sun tanned people?

Here are Europeans:
http://oi48.tinypic.com/fooqyt.jpghttp://practicalglamour.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/tamara-eccleston-skin-suntan.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-No9D4GooklM/U4YhbBD7fjI/AAAAAAAA5eg/gP3p91barLc/s1600/07+Suntanned+Legs+&+Feet+Of+8TV+Rickman+Baki+Zainal+Malaysia+Cycling-078.jpg


You are fight Europeans are still dark brown!


alaskan indian
http://indianlaw.org/node/1009

This one is about right. Light olive skin of hunter gatherers of the north.


Show me colour of natural Inuit or Eskimo skin, please.

PS. See the picture I posted with kids? Winter, kids of mixed races, (kids these days white or not spend lots of time inside, not getting much of suntan), good to compare skin tones. Not perfect but the best we can get with quick search picture wise.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 23:52
your ignorance is overwhelming this shows you did not even read a third from what i posted on last pages

http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/


To date, there are several identified types of albinism. Below you will find a brief description of each:

Ocular Albinism (OA) affects only the eyes, not the skin or hair. It results from an X-linked chromosomal inheritance and so occurs mostly in boys.

Oculocutaneous Albinism (OCA) affects the eyes, hair and skin and includes several different forms. The first form, OCA1 involves the tyrosinase enzyme, which converts tyrosine (an amino acid) into melanin. Melanin is a chemical that colors our skin, eyes and hair. OCA1 includes two sub-groups:
OCA1a: Those with this type of albinism have no pigment and no active tyrosinase
OCA1b: Those with this type of albinism have some residual tyrosinase activity and so have some pigment. Although they have decreased pigmentation at birth, it may increase slightly throughout their lives. People in this group may even have the ability to sun tan.

inuit baby natural skin!
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/344314333984362917/

tell these people blondism and white skin is an adaptation..
http://albinism-alliance.org/category/organization-info/

or these blonde lions
http://rockyc5.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/white-lions-panthera-leo-spp/

vigilantexplorer
14-12-14, 00:03
tell to my slavic grandmother she is here eyes are an cold low uv adaptation after several eye surgeries and my aunt which sadly died of skin cancer while living in the tatra mountains.. you are really out of your mind claiming we whites are adapted to our environment

in this case you are the one who tries to beat science by fantasy and ridiculous claims!


Scandinavian countries have the highest number of skin cancer cases in all of Europe, despite having the most sun-deprived climates. Sweden leads the Nordic countries, with 45,000 people diagnosed with skin cancer each year. 500 die from the disease annually, in particular from melanoma, which is more than the yearly total of fatalities from road traffic accidents.
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=5123470

LeBrok
14-12-14, 00:20
your ignorance is overwhelming this shows you did not even read a third from what i posted on last pages


Just one tribe of black skinned northerners, pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase! Come on, how difficult is it to prove you hypotheses?

Another map of skin colours. And wow, they correlate with sun intensity.
https://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/skin-color-chart-for-the-world.jpg

Did you notice that map doesn't show brown Inuits or Eskimo? Exactly like my picture of Inuit kids. Look again, don't miss it this time:
http://www.naho.ca/inuit/files/2010/12/inuit-kids.jpg

I have main stream science and observational science behind me. What do yo have? Your fantasy hypotheses and tanned pictures, and albinism which you don't really understand.

LeBrok
14-12-14, 00:22
tell to my slavic grandmother she is here eyes are an cold low uv adaptation after several eye surgeries and my aunt which sadly died of skin cancer while living in the tatra mountains.. you are really out of your mind claiming we whites are adapted to our environment

in this case you are the one who tries to beat science by fantasy and ridiculous claims!


http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=5123470

Sickness from genetic mutation is no joke. However you connecting albinizm to your fantasy world is.

vigilantexplorer
14-12-14, 00:28
you are really master ignorant

i showed you peruvian indian and nepalese sherpas who live 4000 meters above sea level and have dark skin and you still repeat your nonsense(psychological state of denial)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93597-Debunking-Caucasoid-red-haired-mummies-in-Peru-and-America-including-the-blonde-ones


Sickness from genetic mutation is no joke. However you connecting albinizm to your fantasy world is.
yes buddy, indeed! thats why we whites make up only 8% of humans on earth why the rest is healthy melanated..

you also ignored this!

Results from tests in cold water and cold air suggest that Quechua Indians have a thermal advantage over U. S. whites under conditions of moderate local cold stress
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41449283?uid=3737528&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21105447957213

what? brown skinned indians have a thermal advantage over us supposedly "cold adapted" whites?! hmm


Did you notice that map doesn't show brown Inuits or Eskimo?
yes indeed it doesnt, because it was made to fit eurocentric nonsense and to deny white skin is not an adaptation at all and to deny that people living in the coldest and highest latitudes are in fact brown!.. it is the same like when a south african claims his ancestors built the olmec civilisation just because the olmecs had flat noses.

maybe you watch this to see how real eskimos look like
https://www.nfb.ca/film/angotee_story_of_an_eskimo_boy

and mount everest brown skinned sherpas!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmcE4FOUh8w

also all animals must have been depigmented in northern climate to adapt which is not the case at all!
from seal to polar bear all have dark melanated skin to warm up by sun because melanin carbon absorbs heat

LeBrok
14-12-14, 01:17
you are really master ignorant

i showed you peruvian indian and nepalese sherpas who live 4000 meters above sea level and have dark skin and you still repeat your nonsense(psychological state of denial) Firstly, we don't know how tanned he is in the picture. Secondly, don't you get that on 4000 meter level UV radiation is few times higher than on the sea level? They are getting doses of UV comparable to people in Africa! It nicely fits in UV radiation model. On top of it Tybet is farther south than Spain. It is not a located in higher latitudes, and I asked you for tribes of higher latitudes. Higher latitude means farther north (http://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/help/the-low-middle-and-high-latitude) and not higher up.
No wonder they are darker skin than people farther north. They need to be for cancer protection. Look at this map again. Tybet is included as dark skin region.
https://robertlindsay.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/skin-color-chart-for-the-world.jpg




yes buddy, indeed! thats why we whites make up only 8% of humans on earth why the rest is healthy melanated.. What 8%? The first 3 shades, on the map above, are white and light brown/olive skin people and they occupy all North, the mid and higher latitudes. And look at China, almost all lighter skin. We are talking about 3 billion of lighter skin people!



http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/41449283?uid=3737528&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21105447957213

what? brown skinned indians have a thermal advantage over us supposedly "cold adapted" whites?! hmm Interesting study, but what the thermal advantage has to do with skin colour? Do you suggest white people originated in Africa?



yes indeed it doesnt, because it was made to fit eurocentric nonsense and to deny white skin is not an adaptation at all and to deny that people living in the coldest and highest latitudes are in fact brown! Except posting a pictures of tanned Eskimo you are yet to present a proof of black tribe from higher latitudes. I presented the map based on latest scientific research indicating otherwise, and presented pictures of untanned Inuits in mix of europeans kids. They both agree.

Lets make it straight. What you are saying is that Inuit/Eskimo skin colour you call them brown, is comparable to brown of Indians or Africans, who (according to you) used to live around the whole world?

http://www.drsharma.ca/wp-content/uploads/sharma-obesity-inuit-kid.jpghttp://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/17626/wm/pd978187.jpg

Are you completely blind?!

vigilantexplorer
14-12-14, 03:03
the snow reflects sun rays this is why scandinavians have highest skin cancer rate even in northern latitude so this again disproves your adaptation to cold nonsense! this just proves a light brown complexion as the eskimos and siberian indians have it is also beneficial in cold environment!

the inuit eskimos etc. are medium brown to light brown and have all brown or black eyes and hair so they are far from being albinos! the polar bear, seal etc have all dark skin and brown eyes not blue eyes and pinkish skin!

they(eskimos etc) also get no skin cancer and rickets in comparison with us supposedly cold adapted whites so what is your poiint here, you disproved nothing..
to categorize nonwhites as whites will not help you to elevate the numbers of whites in the world, because neither latinos, nor asians nor ethiopians or arabs can be considered white "caucasians", neither of them have blondism and blue eyes (except their albinos)
blondism and red hair is found amongst albinos of all cultures and phenotypes and it is not a marker of some imaginary distinct race
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93597-Debunking-Caucasoid-red-haired-mummies-in-Peru-and-America-including-the-blonde-ones


Interesting study, but what the thermal advantage has to do with skin colour?
man are you serious? thermal advantage of course proves and has to do with the fact that brown skinned indians living in 4000 meters high mountains are more cold resistant than whites which further proves white skin blue eyes and blonde hair are not an adaptation to cold but simply tyrosinase defect (oca1b) also called albinism type 2

the chinese are not white, their complexion varies between yellowish brown and medium brown, and so is the complexion of mostly all asian people and siberian indians and eskimos and inuits! do not try to count them as blonde pinkish blue eyed(whites) just to hide we make up 8% of the world population because the rest has yellowish brown to dark brown skin and eyes!!!

so these people whom our eurocentrists try to claim white are in fact brown eyed dark haired yellowish brown skinned haplogroups N and C !!! these are yellowish brown to medium brown not white.. so please correct your skin map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Distribution_of_Haplogroup_C-M217_Y-DNA_-_worldwide.png

people who falsify studies and maps to fit their agenda should realise it will not secure them from being exposed by truth which results from honest research

vigilantexplorer
14-12-14, 04:24
how can you be so ignorant and say we whites are healthy cold adapted individuals while science debunks this nonsense with more and more studies which all prove the so called redheads, blondes and "white caucasian" people to be albinos and proves the less melanin you have the more degenerative diseases you have... prone to rickets, anemia, eyes problems, hearing problems, skin cancer, osteoporosis, parkisons, alzheimers etc.. lack of melanin also makes one prone to folic acid damage by uv rays no matter if you live in hot or cold climate because both have enough uv rays which results in sperm damage and children born with disabilities or autism..

so if you want to remain ignorant about truth then go on.. i prefer harsh scientific truth!

several facts:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/part-2-autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic.html
http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/what-causes-albinism.html
http://www.reptilic.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=25338&p=199398
http://www.news-medical.net/health/Melanin-and-Disease.aspx
http://www.imt.ie/clinical/2011/01/re-emergence-of-rickets-and-vitamin-d-deficiency.html
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=5123470
http://www.gentledoberman.com/doberman-pinscher-information/kinds-colors/white-albino
http://www.reddit.com/r/HumanPorn/comments/2dzocc/blind_albino_boys_in_their_boarding_room_at_a/

asi i said the truth is far from being funny!!!

so to come back on topic, did i say irish people are from asian haplogroup r1b? yes
did i say red hair and blue eyes mostly common in irish people are oca1b tyrosine defect? yes
are those claims bakced by scientific facts? of course they are

conclusion: no the irish are not turkish farmers but indoeuropeans who migrated into europe out of asia and suffer from oca1b tyrosinase defect which makes them famous for having red hair(albinism type 2)..

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html

LeBrok
14-12-14, 06:49
the snow reflects sun rays this is why scandinavians have highest skin cancer rate even in northern latitude so this again disproves your adaptation to cold nonsense! this just proves a light brown complexion as the eskimos and siberian indians have it is also beneficial in cold environment! Are you totally blind to skin colour of the two girls I posted above? Is the Inuit child dark brown as Indians or Africans? I wouldn't even call her brown, lol.
Your are confusing UV radiation with adaptation to cold big time! Skin colour is an adaptation to UV intensity. Adaptation to cold is a separate issue and happens on different genes, not on genes responsible for melanin. I never said it was adaptation to cold.


the inuit eskimos etc. are medium brown to light brown and have all brown or black eyes and hair so they are far from being albinos! you got stuck on this albino thingy and it messes up your understanding of this issue.
The thing is that people of far north are light or medium brown and not dark brown or black. Do you see that they are lighter and not being albino? According to your hypothesis we should be able to find black tribe living in far north, but you can't find them. It means that your hypothesis is wrong.


they(eskimos etc) also get no skin cancer and rickets in comparison with us supposedly cold adapted whites so what is your poiint here, you disproved nothing..
Black people also have skin cancer and rickets too. Are they not adapted either?


to categorize nonwhites as whites will not help you to elevate the numbers of whites in the world, because neither latinos, nor asians nor ethiopians or arabs can be considered white "caucasians", neither of them have blondism and blue eyes (except their albinos) You don't need to be caucasian to have lighter skin. Don't confuse lighter skin with caucasian. There are white people on this planet not being caucasians.
http://yousaytoo-us.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/post_images/8a/d1/82/9343272/remote_image_86a5725b03.jpg
Will you call her brown because she is not caucasian?




blondism and red hair is found amongst albinos of all cultures and phenotypes and it is not a marker of some imaginary distinct race
You have racial or taxonomic problems. I have the racial problem? When I say light skin, you think caucasian, but I don't.



man are you serious? thermal advantage of course proves and has to do with the fact that brown skinned indians living in 4000 meters high mountains are more cold resistant than whites which further proves white skin blue eyes and blonde hair are not an adaptation to cold but simply tyrosinase defect (oca1b) also called albinism type 2 Wow, they lived 4000 meter high, no wonder they had adaptation to cold. It explains why they are brown for protection from strong UV and with cold adaptations because of cold. Exactly like Tibetans. Easy to explain.


the chinese are not white, their complexion varies between yellowish brown and medium brown, and so is the complexion of mostly all asian people and siberian indians and eskimos and inuits! do not try to count them as blonde pinkish blue eyed(whites) just to hide we make up 8% of the world population because the rest has yellowish brown to dark brown skin and eyes!!! Since when white people need to have light eyes and hair?! Isn't she white?
http://www1.pictures.stylebistro.com/gi/Michelle+Dockery+Short+Hairstyles+Bob+CFNOpP8fRfgl .jpg
And not albino.


I'm still waiting for the black tribe in higher latitudes, to prove your point. Keep searching.

Perhaps, you would like to explain, why in India only one in 100,000 is born with form of albinism, but in Europe everyone is born "albino"? Good theory can predict and explain related instances. Can yours?

LeBrok
14-12-14, 06:52
how can you be so ignorant and say we whites are healthy cold adapted individuals while science debunks this nonsense with more and more studies which all prove the so called redheads, blondes and "white caucasian" people to be albinos and proves the less melanin you have the more degenerative diseases you have..So light skin people are albino degenerates. I think the racist is coming out off you finally.

ElHorsto
14-12-14, 11:40
the snow reflects sun rays this is why scandinavians have highest skin cancer rate even in northern latitude

No, the sun is way too weak in Scandinavia during winter.
This could be rather the ozone hole which affects mostly northern latitudes.

Image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion#mediaviewer/File:Uars_ozone_waves.jpg)

Second, southern tourist spots like Gran Canaria are full with Brits and Scandinavians who try to get browned within only one or two weeks. This would be unhealthy for every north european, not only scaninavians.

Robert6
14-12-14, 12:05
The SLC24A5 light skin pigmentation allele,
is more in the Northern part of West Asia, in Central Europe, and in the eastern part of Brittany.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ad3mZyyUew0/Us6_OzZjb2I/AAAAAAAAJdw/PU1DxDNAei8/s1600/F1.large.jpg

http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2014/01/slc24a5-light-skin-pigmentation-allele.html

Templar
14-12-14, 12:36
The SLC24A5 light skin pigmentation allele,
is more in the Northern part of West Asia, in Central Europe, and in the eastern part of Brittany.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ad3mZyyUew0/Us6_OzZjb2I/AAAAAAAAJdw/PU1DxDNAei8/s1600/F1.large.jpg

http://dienekes.blogspot.gr/2014/01/slc24a5-light-skin-pigmentation-allele.html

Asians have their own light skin pigmentation allele:

OCA2

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/OCA2_labels_S.png

Robert6
14-12-14, 14:33
Asians have their own light skin pigmentation allele:

OCA2

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/OCA2_labels_S.png
I think that this another allele increased also because of Neolithic diet and lack of Vitamin D

joeyc
14-12-14, 14:36
R* became extinct and was renamed to MA-1

basal R-m207 has origins in Malaysia

basal R1 has originas in central asia

basal R2 has origins in north India


read karafet paper june 2014

It can't be because R* Mal'ta didn't carry any East Asian admix and people in South East Asia are the purest East Asians. ONGE are almost 100% ENA (Eastern non African).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M207


Origins[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Haplogroup_R-M207&action=edit&section=1)]This haplogroup is believed to have arisen around 24,000–34,000 years ago (Karafet 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M207#CITEREFKarafet2008)), somewhere in Central Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia), where its ancestor Haplogroup P-M45 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_P-M45_(Y-DNA)) is most often found at polymorphic frequencies (Wells 2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M207#CITEREFWells2001)).
Haplogroup R* was found in the remains of a Palaeolithic boy MA-1 (Mal'ta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta)) near Lake Baikal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal) in Siberia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia), dating to 24,000 years ago.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M207#cite_note-1)

vigilantexplorer
14-12-14, 16:40
So light skin people are albino degenerates. I think the racist is coming out off you finally.
you again use verbal tactics to try to make asians into caucasians(which they are not!) and me into a racist..

when i speak about white people i only refer to blonde blue eyed or red haired green eyed individuals which both have a tyrosinase defect i am not speaking of brown eyed brown haired asians! why do you think blonde haired red haired blue eyed people suffer the most degenerative illnesses?! bad eyesight, bad hearing, parkinsons, autism and lot more just red this ladys article! she is caucasian red haired woman by the way so accuse her of racism when she is also just honest and scientific like me! http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html

are you out fo your mind?! how can i be racist against myself when i am caucasian white man myself?! omg


Since when white people need to have light eyes and hair?! Isn't she white?
never heard of the holy roman empire of german nation where the germans/celts(described by roman writers as blonde or red haired with fierce blue eyes) mixed with the brown skinned romans and so got a little melanin?! the same was happening in russia and finnland where the slavic people mixed with local indian tribes and mongols..


I'm still waiting for the black tribe in higher latitudes, to prove your point. Keep searching.

where did i say black?! i said brown skinned people live in coldest environments! showed you lot of examples but you still ignore every fact i offered you!


Perhaps, you would like to explain, why in India only one in 100,000 is born with form of albinism, but in Europe everyone is born "albino"? Good theory can predict and explain related instances. Can yours?
because in europe albino produces a child with albino so the albinism gene is multiplied while in india an albino woman makes a child with a melanated man and so the albino gene is dominated by melanin and a normal child is born,simple logic! the same happens when a blonde english woman makes a child with an indian man..


Second, southern tourist spots like Gran Canaria are full with Brits and Scandinavians who try to get browned within only one or two weeks. This would be unhealthy for every north european, not only scaninavians.
no the study i posted from sweden says the swedish suffer skin cancer in sweden not on vacation!
secondly the northern people get winter sunburn which proves they are not adapted to cold either!

as i said seals, polar bears and all other arctic animals have dark pigmented skin even in high latitudes neither of them has blue eyes blonde hair and pale pink skin and so has neither of the eskimos, nenets, nepalese sherpas or quechua indians living in much colder climate then any caucasian whites! so this again disproves theorry about blondism blue eyes being an adaptation to low uv cold climate..

instead blondism and oca2(blue eyes) is found in every albino in the world regardless of culture or phenotype!
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000b5SWZYsuoDs/s/750/KK-1000816.jpg

what do you think sunglasses were invented for fashion?! no for albino people to substitute the lack of melanin in their eyes and skin(sunscreen)! 90% of people i know whether in my family or friends who have blue eyes must wear glasses my good friend is an optician by the way and majority of his customers are blue eyed..

Melancon
14-12-14, 18:22
I think that this another allele increased also because of Neolithic diet and lack of Vitamin D

It did not develop this way. There may be some other explanation.

Apparently nobody here realizes that Science isn't always accurate and is based on several perspectives. And sometimes Science can be invalid or contradict itself with a newer study. I believe that Science and Evolution may explain more about biology than say Creationism; though.

The Greeks debated this Milleniums ago; well in advance. It doesn't matter if you are a believer in Science/Evolution or a believer in Creationism; you're still a follower, either way. (I think Plato tried to prove that illusions are real. But philosophers like Schoppenhauer and Nietzsche attempted to discredit him.)

Melancon
14-12-14, 18:50
the snow reflects sun rays this is why scandinavians have highest skin cancer rate even in northern latitude so this again disproves your adaptation to cold nonsense! this just proves a light brown complexion as the eskimos and siberian indians have it is also beneficial in cold environment!

the inuit eskimos etc. are medium brown to light brown and have all brown or black eyes and hair so they are far from being albinos! the polar bear, seal etc have all dark skin and brown eyes not blue eyes and pinkish skin!

they(eskimos etc) also get no skin cancer and rickets in comparison with us supposedly cold adapted whites so what is your poiint here, you disproved nothing..
to categorize nonwhites as whites will not help you to elevate the numbers of whites in the world, because neither latinos, nor asians nor ethiopians or arabs can be considered white "caucasians", neither of them have blondism and blue eyes (except their albinos)
blondism and red hair is found amongst albinos of all cultures and phenotypes and it is not a marker of some imaginary distinct race
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?93597-Debunking-Caucasoid-red-haired-mummies-in-Peru-and-America-including-the-blonde-ones


man are you serious? thermal advantage of course proves and has to do with the fact that brown skinned indians living in 4000 meters high mountains are more cold resistant than whites which further proves white skin blue eyes and blonde hair are not an adaptation to cold but simply tyrosinase defect (oca1b) also called albinism type 2

the chinese are not white, their complexion varies between yellowish brown and medium brown, and so is the complexion of mostly all asian people and siberian indians and eskimos and inuits! do not try to count them as blonde pinkish blue eyed(whites) just to hide we make up 8% of the world population because the rest has yellowish brown to dark brown skin and eyes!!!

so these people whom our eurocentrists try to claim white are in fact brown eyed dark haired yellowish brown skinned haplogroups N and C !!! these are yellowish brown to medium brown not white.. so please correct your skin map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Haplogrupo_N_(ADN-Y).PNG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Distribution_of_Haplogroup_C-M217_Y-DNA_-_worldwide.png

people who falsify studies and maps to fit their agenda should realise it will not secure them from being exposed by truth which results from honest research
I agree with you. I believe that fair skin came as a result of genetic mutation. (albinism) Not environment or diet during the Neolithic. This theory is inane and ridiculous to me. There are Neanderthals older than 20,000+ who's genome has been documented to them carrying blonde and red hair. People with fair-skin did not develop this skin color during the Neolithic, due to diet and a lack of Vitamin D.

It does not explain why American indians, who are theorized to be related to Eskimos/Inuits as well as East Asians; somehow developed darker skin.

Templar
14-12-14, 18:58
I think that this another allele increased also because of Neolithic diet and lack of Vitamin D

I agree, the frequency seems to correlate with the area of east asia where agriculture began.

Sile
14-12-14, 19:01
So to conclude , are they saying the irish came via central asian turkic people ................a people that did not arrive in modern turkey until 1600 years ago?

Sile
14-12-14, 19:06
It can't be because R* Mal'ta didn't carry any East Asian admix and people in South East Asia are the purest East Asians. ONGE are almost 100% ENA (Eastern non African).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R-M207

?

Mal'ta is associated nearly equally with the americas ........he does carry Asian admix

read the karafet 2014 paper and not the karafet 2008 paper ................there is nearly 8% of R-M207 in malysian and south-east asian area.
If R haplogroup sisters and brothers are M, S and Q .......the only place where S is in south-east asian and futher south, is it logical , Karafet is correct R was born in Sundaland

Melancon
14-12-14, 19:11
Sickness from genetic mutation is no joke. However you connecting albinizm to your fantasy world is.You are suggesting, with this theory, that thousands of people died because they could not resist Skin Cancer because they did not develop fair-skin like their relatives; during the Neolithic. Before most races came into existence..

This theory that humans developed fair skin because of diet and a lack of Vitamin D is more of a fantasy than Albinism is; if you ask me.

How do you explain the genetic mutations of Native American indians and Eskimos/Inuits of Russia? They are theorized to be relative to one another. Don't tell me the North American continent was as hot as Africa. Or even Russia. Native Americans and Siberians are relative; but did Native Americans come afterwards? Or before? How come Native American indians have darker skin?

LeBrok
14-12-14, 19:30
No, the sun is way too weak in Scandinavia during winter.
This could be rather the ozone hole which affects mostly northern latitudes.

Image (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion#mediaviewer/File:Uars_ozone_waves.jpg)

Second, southern tourist spots like Gran Canaria are full with Brits and Scandinavians who try to get browned within only one or two weeks. This would be unhealthy for every north european, not only scaninavians.
Good observation. Increased cases in Scandinavia might be due to vacationing in hot places and getting burned. In fashion since 60s. The getting burned, first day on vacation, is most damaging to the skin and causes cancer.

Aberdeen
14-12-14, 19:53
?

Mal'ta is associated nearly equally with the americas ........he does carry Asian admix

read the karafet 2014 paper and not the karafet 2008 paper ................there is nearly 8% of R-M207 in malysian and south-east asian area.
If R haplogroup sisters and brothers are M, S and Q .......the only place where S is in south-east asian and futher south, is it logical , Karafet is correct R was born in Sundaland

Karafet's 2014 paper deals with the separation of M and P from haplogroup K, thousands of years prior to the time Mal'ta 1 lived, and he argues that the split of M and P (possibly originally as a haplogroup MP) happened in a different part of the world from where Mal'ta 1 was found. His paper was not about Mal'ta 1, whose family group is ancestral to Europeans and Amerindians but not East Asians.

Sile
14-12-14, 19:56
Karafet's 2014 paper deals with the separation of M and P from haplogroup K, thousands of years prior to the time Mal'ta 1 lived, and he argues that the split of M and P (possibly originally as a haplogroup MP) happened in a different part of the world from where Mal'ta 1 was found. His paper was not about Mal'ta 1, whose family group is ancestral to Europeans and Amerindians but not East Asians.

She

and Mal'ta has no association with modern people............

Aberdeen
14-12-14, 20:35
She

and Mal'ta has no association with modern people............

If you haven't had a chance to read "Refined structure in haplogroup K-M526, Karafet et al. 2014", which is behind a paywall, you can read what Dienekes has to say about it on his blog. It has nothing to do with the discussion about MA-1 and his relationship to Europeans and Amerindians that you can also find on that blog.

LeBrok
14-12-14, 20:49
you again use verbal tactics to try to make asians into caucasians(which they are not!) and me into a racist.. You have reading with comprehension problem, and chronic jumping to conclusions. I was talking about lighter skin people, that includes light olive skin, light brown of North Asia and North America. Go back to my posts and check it out. Somehow you assumed I was talking only about Caucasians only. Don't blame me for this, but your lack of comprehension.


when i speak about white people i only refer to blonde blue eyed or red haired green eyed individuals Oh, you have your own definition of white people, lol. No wonder you can't communicate thoughts with outside world.


why do you think blonde haired red haired blue eyed people suffer the most degenerative illnesses?! bad eyesight, bad hearing, parkinsons, autism and lot more just red this ladys article! she is caucasian red haired woman by the way so accuse her of racism when she is also just honest and scientific like me! http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html Bull shit.


are you out fo your mind?! how can i be racist against myself when i am caucasian white man myself?! omg Like a masochist. Why would people hurt themselves?


never heard of the holy roman empire of german nation where the germans/celts(described by roman writers as blonde or red haired with fierce blue eyes) mixed with the brown skinned romans and so got a little melanin?! the same was happening in russia and finnland where the slavic people mixed with local indian tribes and mongols.. The point is you can't explain existence of light skinned Japanese or Inuits. Farthermore you ignoring mutations on other genes responsible for depigmentation.



where did i say black?! i said brown skinned people live in coldest environments! showed you lot of examples but you still ignore every fact i offered you! You showed me tanned people. By this "science" even europeans are brown. In contrast, I showed you the untanned people and they had lighter skin. Don't you remember?
And yes, you said black people lived in England and Europe in antiquity.

During the time of Tacitus, Germans inhabited Caledonia (Scotland), the rest of Britain was inhabited by Blacks, they were the original settlers of Britain, and STILL BLACK!

3) Whites did NOT bring agriculture to Europe, Blacks from the South did, and they did NOT turn White.


because in europe albino produces a child with albino so the albinism gene is multiplied while in india an albino woman makes a child with a melanated man and so the albino gene is dominated by melanin and a normal child is born,simple logic! the same happens when a blonde english woman makes a child with an indian man.. What?
1. How come in India, or any other country of similar latitude, albino don't make kids with albino only, like in Europe?
2. Why this process only happens in higher latitudes?
3. Also you need to explain what happened to this dark brown/black people who lived in Europe? This albino people ate all black people?
4. Shouldn't we have mixed populations, of white and brown, over the whole globe by now? Or shouldn't we have one medium brown people only regardless of latitude?


no the study i posted from sweden says the swedish suffer skin cancer in sweden not on vacation! lol, this is precious. Cancer starts from accumulative skin damage, not acute skin damage. It is not happening right away on vacation. You need to burn your skin multiple times on vacation, when you are young, to possibly get a skin cancer at later age.


secondly the northern people get winter sunburn which proves they are not adapted to cold either! I hoped that by now you got the difference between cold air and UV intensity. These are not the same things! Comprehension, comprehension, comprehension!


as i said seals, polar bears and all other arctic animals have dark pigmented skin even in high latitudes neither of them has blue eyes blonde hair and pale pink skin They all have blond hair, right? lol You can't see the obvious even if it stares in your face. As I said, comprehension problem. Some have blue and green eyes:
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/155/8/e/baby_polar_fox__3_by_woxys-d3i1gop.jpg
http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/33582-Baby-Arctic-Fox.jpg
They have perfectly good vision for hunting and don't need sunglasses, even in winter.

Skin colour doesn't matter because it is hidden under thick coat and never sees sunlight, and doesn't need to produce vitamin D.



instead blondism and oca2(blue eyes) is found in every albino in the world regardless of culture or phenotype!
http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000b5SWZYsuoDs/s/750/KK-1000816.jpg Good point, so why we aren't they the same colour by now around the planet! Instead black people live by equator and lite skin closer to poles. This agrees with UV/skin colour index.


what do you think sunglasses were invented for fashion?! no for albino people to substitute the lack of melanin in their eyes and skin(sunscreen)! 90% of people i know whether in my family or friends who have blue eyes must wear glasses my good friend is an optician by the way and majority of his customers are blue eyed.. bulshit. Could you post your statistics for verification?

LeBrok
14-12-14, 21:19
You are suggesting, with this theory, that thousands of people died because they could not resist Skin Cancer because they did not develop fair-skin like their relatives; Oh, you think that white skin prevents people from getting cancer? This is a novel approach I must say. Till now there was a consensus, and common knowledge, that black skin protects us from getting skin cancer.
Could you tell us where did you get your information?




during the Neolithic. Before most races came into existence.. Do you believe all races popped up in or after Neolithic?


This theory that humans developed fair skin because of diet and a lack of Vitamin D is more of a fantasy than Albinism is; if you ask me. Explain why people are segregated, dark brown around equator and light brown in higher latitudes? I never heard about a law telling people to settle in geographical locations according to skin tone. Did you?


How come Native American indians have darker skin?
Here is picture one picture with Inuit people one with Native Mexicans. Guess who lives in conditions with higher UV index. Do you see difference in skin colour?
http://www.naho.ca/inuit/files/2010/12/inuit-kids.jpg

http://oasisdesign.net/images/img_mauruata/KidsOnSwing6855.jpg

Melancon
14-12-14, 22:07
Oh, you think that white skin prevents people from getting cancer? This is a novel approach I must say. Till now there was a consensus, and common knowledge, that black skin protects us from getting skin cancer.
Could you tell us where did you get your information?



Do you believe all races popped up in or after Neolithic?

Explain why people are segregated, dark brown around equator and light brown in higher latitudes? I never heard about a law telling people to settle in geographical locations according to skin tone. Did you?


Here is picture one picture with Inuit people one with Native Mexicans. Guess who lives in conditions with higher UV index. Do you see difference in skin colour?
http://www.naho.ca/inuit/files/2010/12/inuit-kids.jpg

http://oasisdesign.net/images/img_mauruata/KidsOnSwing6855.jpgI didn't say that. You suggested it.

The obsolete, silly and ridiculous "Neolithic fair-skin" theory also suggests it.

Edit: Re-analyze everything you've said. And you are making assumptions towards me. You have contradicted yourself LeBrok.

"Do you believe all races popped up in or after Neolithic?"

I don't know. But I doubt it.

mihaitzateo
14-12-14, 22:52
New study claims that Irishmen descended from Turkish farmers (Anatolian not Turkish)
http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/new-study-claims-that-irishmen-descended-from-turkish-farmers-83217437-237788351.html

A new study has revealed that many Irish men may be able to trace their roots back to Turkey.
Focusing on the role of the Y chromosome, which is passed from father to son, the research indicates Turkish farmers arrived in Ireland about 6,000 years ago, bringing agriculture with them.
And they may have been more attractive than the hunter-gatherers whom they replaced.

The genetic patterns for Irish females differ from those of men.
“Most maternal genetic lineages seem to descend from hunter-gatherers,” an author of the study, Patricia Balaresque, told the London Times.
“To us, this suggests a reproductive advantage for farming males over indigenous hunter-gatherer males during the switch to farming.
“Maybe, it was just sexier to be a farmer,” she added.
Eighty-five per cent of Irish men are descended from farming people from the Middle East and especially Turkey, according to the research that was conducted by scientists at the University of Leicester.
The switch from hunting and gathering to farming was a crucial one in human development. Increased food production meant that populations were able to grow.
In Britain, 60-65 per cent of the population has the Turkish genetic pattern, while in parts of the Iberian Peninsula it’s almost as the same as in Ireland.
The research contradicts what was previously thought about Irish genealogy – that hunter-gatherers from Spain and Portugal who survived the Ice Age were our main genetic ancestors.
“This particular kind of Y chromosome follows a gradient, gradually increasing in frequency from Turkey and the southeast of Europe to Ireland, where it reaches its highest frequency,
” Mark Jobling from the University of Leicester told the Times.
We are saying that most of that original hunter-gatherer male population in Ireland was probably replaced by incoming agricultural populations,” he added.

Lol.
I think there is a trend in Norway and Great Britain,Ireland included to say they are descending from Turkish or Huns.
But I doubt.After the very blue eyes,is clear that Celts came from around same areas as Norse people came.As for Celts practicing agriculture,that is another lol,Celts were known for making a living from fighting,they were paid fighters/warriors not farmers.

Aberdeen
14-12-14, 23:09
Lol.
I think there is a trend in Norway and Great Britain,Ireland included to say they are descending from Turkish or Huns.
But I doubt.After the very blue eyes,is clear that Celts came from around same areas as Norse people came.As for Celts practicing agriculture,that is another lol,Celts were known for making a living from fighting,they were paid fighters/warriors not farmers.

Celts were farmers or pastoralists (depending on terrain) who calculated honour price based on how many cows a person was worth. They were strong and courageous warriors, although not well organized. The Celtic upper class seem to have preferred having subordinates to do basic work for them, but they honoured artisans and creative people, such as poets.

Melancon
14-12-14, 23:29
The Celts may have been descended from "Turks"; but people here don't recognize that Turkish may be metaphorical for Anatolian or Near Eastern farmer. If we used Turkish in a literal sense; then Celts definitely did not descend from the Modern population of the Turkic ethnic group. (Surely there are Turkish people that may have some Celtic in them, though.)

LeBrok
14-12-14, 23:36
I didn't say that. You suggested it.
I never did. I said that black people couldn't live up north, because they were vitamin D deficient. But somehow you understood this:

http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Melancon http://cdn.eupedia.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=446306#post446306)
You are suggesting, with this theory, that thousands of people died because they could not resist Skin Cancer because they did not develop fair-skin like their relatives;

Do you see your mistake now?


The obsolete, silly and ridiculous "Neolithic fair-skin" theory also suggests it. This "ridiculous theory", as you called it, can explain my question, that you conveniently omitted.
Explain why people are "segregated", dark brown around equator and light brown in higher latitudes?

arvistro
14-12-14, 23:41
@LeBrok,
I ask not to argue, but because I dont know - does equatorial = brown(er) also hold in pre-Columbus America?

Melancon
14-12-14, 23:41
Lol.
I think there is a trend in Norway and Great Britain,Ireland included to say they are descending from Turkish or Huns.
But I doubt.After the very blue eyes,is clear that Celts came from around same areas as Norse people came.As for Celts practicing agriculture,that is another lol,Celts were known for making a living from fighting,they were paid fighters/warriors not farmers.All tribes in Europe were surely agrarian at a time. And all surely lived a life of hunting and gathering as well. The Celts were mostly nomadic and barbarian until the Romans attempted to civilize them. They saw the Germanic people as their allies; mainly against the Romans. They did not appreciate the Greco-Roman "civilized" lifestyle.

mihaitzateo
14-12-14, 23:43
I have to agree that blue eyes do not show that someone is living somewhere very North latitude.
Almost all Siberian people and Sami people,who did not mixed with Slavs or Germanic Scandinavians have brown eyes.
While I can show you plenty of Indians,Pakistani and Iranians with blue eyes.
And this image shows the presence of light skin alele SLC24A5:
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003912.g002&representation=PNG_L

Melancon
14-12-14, 23:49
I never did. I said that black people couldn't live up north, because they were vitamin D deficient. But somehow you understood this:

Do you see your mistake now?

This "ridiculous theory", as you called it, can explain my question, that you conveniently omitted.
Explain why people are "segregated", dark brown around equator and light brown in higher latitudes?Does not matter if it's fair white skin or dark black skin; the argument is still legitimate, and you still have contradicted yourself. You are claiming that skin color changed because of environment; when that isn't true.

I made a mistake I admit; but you get the point, surely now.

And, wasn't it hypothesized, the first Native Americans did not develop on the American continent at all? SO how did they acquire darker skin to their Siberian Asian brothers? Was Russia and North America close to the equator at the time the Native Americans crossed the Bering strait? No, no. That was during the Ice Age.

Their migration down into Central and South America and equator was only recent. Have we found American indians on the North America continent with fair skin yet?

Aberdeen
14-12-14, 23:54
All tribes in Europe were surely agrarian at a time. And all surely lived a life of hunting and gathering as well. The Celts were mostly nomadic and barbarian until the Romans attempted to civilize them. They saw the Germanic people as their allies; mainly against the Romans. They did not appreciate the Greco-Roman "civilized" lifestyle.

That is nonsense. If you want to learn about the great achievements of the Celts, read something by a modern Celtic scholar, such as Miranda Green. And no, the Germans weren't, generally, allies of the Celts. The Germans were the barbarians who were pushing the Celts westward.

mihaitzateo
14-12-14, 23:55
So sorry for you Germanic and Celtic guys,you are clearly denying what science says,that you are high-caste Gypsies,that is from where your language and education came.See that Gedrosia admixture which is present at all Westerners and Northen people,Finns not included,where do you think is that from?
Not from Pakistan?
I did not want to post this till now,to not anger you,but where do you see such strong racism,if not at High Caste Indians and I guess Pakistani also have the same caste system?
No idea from where Romance speakers came,but Slavic speakers is clear they came from Iran,not India/Pakistani because of different admixture.
I think Romance speakers also came from Iran.
EDIT:
If you still doubt Germanic speakers came from Pakistan,go search the picture of Imran Kahn,a native Pakistani guy. He looks typical German,but he does not have any recent German ancestry.
http://cache.pakistantoday.com.pk/483243-ImranKhan-1356205911-150-640x4801.jpg
6945
No worries,average IQ at high caste Indians is about 120 or so.So those were only the leaders who brought language and so on,the mass of population from Western and North Europe is not of India/Pakistani genetics.
Only light eyes and light hair were taken from there.
You are not smart enough,to be of mostly High Caste Indians genetics :D .

motzart
14-12-14, 23:55
Celts were farmers or pastoralists (depending on terrain) who calculated honour price based on how many cows a person was worth. They were strong and courageous warriors, although not well organized. The Celtic upper class seem to have preferred having subordinates to do basic work for them, but they honoured artisans and creative people, such as poets.

They were also really into dudes:

According to Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle), most "belligerent nations" were strongly influenced by their women, but the Celts were unusual because their men openly preferred male lovers (Politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_%28Aristotle%29) II 1269b).[84] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#cite_note-84) H. D. Rankin in Celts and the Classical World notes that "Athenaeus echoes this comment (603a) and so does Ammianus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammianus_Marcellinus) (30.9). It seems to be the general opinion of antiquity."[85] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#cite_note-85) In book XIII of his Deipnosophists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deipnosophistae), the Roman Greek rhetorician and grammarian Athenaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenaeus), repeating assertions made by Diodorus Siculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_Siculus) in the 1st century BC (Bibliotheca historica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_historica) 5:32 (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5B*.html#32.7)), wrote that Celtic women were beautiful but that the men preferred to sleep together. Diodorus went further, stating that "the young men will offer themselves to strangers and are insulted if the offer is refused".

Aberdeen
14-12-14, 23:59
@LeBrok,
I ask not to argue, but because I dont know - does equatorial = brown(er) also hold in pre-Columbus America?

If you visit the Americas, you will find that all Native people are brownish in skin colour but those nearer the tropics are much darker than those who live in Canada or Chile. It's complicated by the fact that many natives have mixed with whites, but you can still see the difference quite clearly. However, even those Amerindians furthest from the equator didn't depigment as much as Europeans, and I suspect that it's partly because of farming, including dairy, and partly a question of what mutations occurred at the right time.

Melancon
15-12-14, 00:08
That is nonsense. If you want to learn about the great achievements of the Celts, read something by a modern Celtic scholar, such as Miranda Green. And no, the Germans weren't, generally, allies of the Celts. The Germans were the barbarians who were pushing the Celts westward.The Celts were not pushed back ... they migrated. The Germans and Celts were united in their nomadic conquests of Europe. And looked at each other as allies. Their ultimate goal was to sack Roman influence and oppression in Europe; and eventually the East German Visigoths managed to do that. The Celts and Germans have always feared assimilation by the Romans in history. The Slavs are the nomadic tribe that pushed Germans and Celts Westward. They did not enter Europe until much, much later. In example, Bohemia is actually a Roman word for a tribe of Hallstatt Celts who settled around what is now Czech Republic. (the "Boii") There was no Bohemian Slavic tribe; as the nation of Bohemia is a misnomer.

The word German has history in the Celtic language, and from what I know, it meant to the Celts "friend-tribe":

"German (n.) (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=German&allowed_in_frame=0) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=German)"Teuton, member of the Germanic tribes," 1520s (plural Germayns attested from late 14c.), from Latin Germanus, first attested in writings of Julius Caesar, who used Germani to designate a group of tribes in northeastern Gaul, origin unknown, probably the name of an individual tribe. It is perhaps of Gaulish (Celtic) origin, perhaps originally meaning "noisy" (compare Old Irish garim "to shout") or "neighbor" (compare Old Irish gair "neighbor").

MOESAN
15-12-14, 00:33
How how ! Surprising thoughts ofsomeones here !
Mutations seems occurring by hazard buttheir development is less hazardous and very often shows aninteraction with environmental pressure – so we can expect somemutations, not identical but producing the same type of modification,can develop in similar environments – OK – that said, life isvigorous and imaginative so the solutions in front of naturalpressure (problems!) are not always the same ones, sometimes verydifferent (without speak of the human hability to conturn physicalproblems by cultural solutions –
lighter pigmentation seems at firstlook a disadvantage, but blondism or light skin are not exactly thesame things as albinism, I think, or at least a less handicapingthing – erythrism seems medically closer to albinism, at firstsight, concerning medical implication for the little I know -
but pigmentation is not the whole thing– other good or bad mutations occur concerning all sorts of traitsand even here the results on human survival is not always simple :some letal alleles in homozygotic conditions can be postitive forsurvival (plagues, by instance) in an heterozygotic condition –some are letal but after the mating-reproductive age – in Africa byinstance, pigmentation doesn't protect completely against sunactivity, we can expect some esthetical aspect has been at play (darkskin masks easily sun irritation of the skin, a red haired Irishmanin the same environment, even if still alive at 30 years, is maybeless attractive with his roasted crayfish colour).




concerning maps, the map upon predictedpigmentation in certain climatic conditions are jus predictive (orsupposed to be) ; but Inuits and other northern latitude naturalancient populations are A BIT more pigmented than the northernEuropeans as a whole (even the protected parts of skin, it appearswith reflectance surveys) – its true that the lighter mongoloidpeople are not darker than the typical mediterranean concerning skin– Amerindians seem more pigmented – true Arabs have almost thesame skin as genuine Mediterraneans with the same ASC24S mutationproportion ar almost (the « caucasoid mutation »)– allthat doesn't disprove a basic correlation roughly verified where moreyou have sun more you have pigmentation, but it's only the basis –other factors interfer, like sexual attractivity and diet andculture (choice of settlements, clothes (later) ...); climaticcorrelation is not explanation : even the vitamin D paradygm isnow contested : in Europe, it's the less pigmented populationwhich have the more lactose tolerance ! -


I'm a bit affraid after I redsome post : we, « white » humans, are in a veryunhealthy condition and condemned to disappear before long time (Iswallowed five hard drinks before recovering some confidence)– someof the diseases evocated are the result of the « occidental »evolved culture, with longer life exposing us to more great agediseases, and some chimical inopportun additive products in our food,and a lack of body exercice...


I'll add nothing concerning the« black » people bringing agriculture to Europe, thealbinos of Asia or the Germans associated to the Celts -


IN SHORT : THIS THREAD IS ROTED ?Too long about pigmentation / THE, QUESTION WAS : are the irishpeople descended from Turcs agricultores : the Jobling title isa commercial one, I think – (Anatolia is not Turkey)
I wait : a proof that Irleand hasbeen populated by peasants from Anatolia 6000 BC + a proof that Y-R1bwas yet in ireland and western Europe at this time – a proof thatthe all autosomals of Ireland are the same as the Anatolians ones(even at that time) – Ireland has been poorly occupied at Neolithicfor i know, and by North-East, not by South (but what is sure, newdiscoveries can be made) – Finding some ressemblance between twopopulations genes doesn't tell us HOW AND WHEN they arrived from oneuntil another, or from ELSWHERE until BOTH -

mihaitzateo
15-12-14, 00:35
A question:
If Celts are descending from those farmers,than how come British population have lowest lactose intolerance from whole world?
Check a little this:
http://milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661
Look at lactose intolerance in Anatolian people and compare it to British people.
(very likely,lactose intolerance of Turkish people is between 55% which is found in Balkans and 80%,which we found at Central Asians,higher that in Balkans,but lower than in Central Asia).
As a strange thing,North Indians,as a whole,have lower lactose intolerance than Italians as a whole.
Anotjher thing,the theory with skin whitening,because of lack of sun is non-sense,is actually a white - skin gene that makes you skin white.
I put a map with the presence of this gene,earlier.

Aberdeen
15-12-14, 00:44
They were also really into dudes:

According to Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle), most "belligerent nations" were strongly influenced by their women, but the Celts were unusual because their men openly preferred male lovers (Politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_%28Aristotle%29) II 1269b).[84] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#cite_note-84) H. D. Rankin in Celts and the Classical World notes that "Athenaeus echoes this comment (603a) and so does Ammianus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammianus_Marcellinus) (30.9). It seems to be the general opinion of antiquity."[85] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts#cite_note-85) In book XIII of his Deipnosophists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deipnosophistae), the Roman Greek rhetorician and grammarian Athenaeus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenaeus), repeating assertions made by Diodorus Siculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diodorus_Siculus) in the 1st century BC (Bibliotheca historica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_historica) 5:32 (http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5B*.html#32.7)), wrote that Celtic women were beautiful but that the men preferred to sleep together. Diodorus went further, stating that "the young men will offer themselves to strangers and are insulted if the offer is refused".

One fool says something stupid and countless fools repeat it, but that doesn't make the statement true. I think it's very unlikely that Aristotle, the source of that notion, ever met a Celt.

Melancon
15-12-14, 00:47
A question:
If Celts are descending from those farmers,than how come British population have lowest lactose intolerance from whole world?
Check a little this:
http://milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661
Look at lactose intolerance in Anatolian people and compare it to British people.
(very likely,lactose intolerance of Turkish people is between 55% which is found in Balkans and 80%,which we found at Central Asians,higher that in Balkans,but lower than in Central Asia).
As a strange thing,North Indians,as a whole,have lower lactose intolerance than Italians as a whole.
Anotjher thing,the theory with skin whitening,because of lack of sun is non-sense,is actually a white - skin gene that makes you skin white.
I put a map with the presence of this gene,earlier.I have French and English ancestry and I am not lactose intolerant; I've drunk milk almost everyday ever since I was a tot. And from my knowledge, no one in my family that I know of; has lactose intolerance either. I have heard rumors that many Native Americans are especially lactose intolerant. And are also at a high risk for Type 2 Diabetes; But I have never investigated these claim(s). A few of my relatives have an allergic reaction to seafood and crustaceans on the other hand; but I don't. This is mainly my English side though. The symptoms are usually fever and red skin flush.

LeBrok
15-12-14, 01:02
Does not matter if it's fair white skin or dark black skin; the argument is still legitimate, and you still have contradicted yourself. You are claiming that skin color changed because of environment; when that isn't true. I'm not sure if you know what logical argument is and its contradiction. To contradict myself, I would need to say (myself) two arguments contradict each other. Can you quote these two contradicting arguments I voiced?




And, wasn't it hypothesized, the first Native Americans did not develop on the American continent at all? SO how did they acquire darker skin to their Siberian Asian brothers? Was Russia and North America close to the equator at the time the Native Americans crossed the Bering strait? No, no. That was during the Ice Age.

Their migration down into Central and South America and equator was only recent. What do you mean recent? Oldest skeleton found in central America is 13,000 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas


Have we found American indians on the North America continent with fair skin yet? It doesn't need to be fair. Light brown or olive skin is enough to survive in the far North, especially as hunter gatherers. But this is far away from dark brown of south India or Africa.
Are you totally blind to skin colours? Are these people equally brown to you?

http://redslipperdiary.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/mongol-part-one-21.jpghttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4Nr1xrkfchD6LbqHMC_Fz9tW2hdaE4 BWgWIffDhBhiTwpRE0z5A

Guess which one lives in higher UV index zone.

Global uv radiation at equinox.
http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2001/03/global_clear-sky_uv_index_26_march_20012/9185781-5-eng-GB/Global_clear-sky_UV_index_26_March_2001_node_full_image_2.jpg
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2001/03/Global_clear-sky_UV_index_26_March_20012


Now zones of skin colours
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/melanin/Map_of_skin_hue_equi3.jpg
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/7F.html

They corelate. Highest UV radiation equals black and dark brown skin, regardless of continent. Less radiation equals lighter skin, also regardless of continent. We also know the science behind vitamin D production and behind skin cancer. This all fall into one place. It is simple, it is logical, it is beautiful. Skin colour is the adaptation to UV intensity, vitamin D production and cancer protection.

mihaitzateo
15-12-14, 01:08
I have French and English ancestry and I am not lactose intolerant; I've drunk milk almost everyday ever since I was a tot. And from my knowledge, no one in my family that I know of; has lactose intolerance either. I have heard rumors that many Native Americans are especially lactose intolerant. And are also at a high risk for Type 2 Diabetes; But I have never investigated these claim(s). A few of my relatives have an allergic reaction to seafood and crustaceans on the other hand; but I don't. This is mainly my English side though. The symptoms are usually fever and red skin flush.

Well maybe you have South French ancestry.
Anyway,what I wanted to show is that Brits are most lactose tolerant people,from whole world. Now,since most of ancestry in Great Britain is Celtic,what is the logic in telling that a large percentage of Irish people are from Anatolian farmers,when such a high percentage are lactose tolerant?
This shows that Celts main food was milk,so this means they were herders,mainly not farmers,as any mentally sane person will understand.
And is well known Celts were great herders of cows,also understood that in Wales there is a strong tradition in herding sheep.
And I doubt that if you drink milk you still need sun to get vitamin D,I know fresh milk is a very good source of vitamin D.

Melancon
15-12-14, 01:14
Global uv radiation at equinox.
http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/images/esa_multimedia/images/2001/03/global_clear-sky_uv_index_26_march_20012/9185781-5-eng-GB/Global_clear-sky_UV_index_26_March_2001_node_full_image_2.jpg
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2001/03/Global_clear-sky_UV_index_26_March_20012


Now zones of skin colours
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/images/content/melanin/Map_of_skin_hue_equi3.jpg
http://www.webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/7F.html

They corelate. Highest UV radiation equals black and dark brown skin, regardless of continent. Less radiation equals lighter skin, also regardless of continent. We also know the science behind vitamin D production and behind skin cancer. This all fall into one place. It is simple, it is logical, it is beautiful. Skin colour is the adaptation to UV intensity, vitamin D production and cancer protection.Take a look at East Asia; Southeast Asia in particular. It has about the same frequency as Sub-Saharan Africa or Central America. This theory of skin pigmentation and environment still doesn't hold any merit.

I believe that Mongoloids, or East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Laos, Thai's etc.) have a lighter white skin color than white Europeans do.

Melancon
15-12-14, 01:20
Well maybe you have South French ancestry.
Anyway,what I wanted to show is that Brits are most lactose tolerant people,from whole world. Now,since most of ancestry in Great Britain is Celtic,what is the logic in telling that a large percentage of Irish people are from Anatolian farmers,when such a high percentage are lactose tolerant?
This shows that Celts main food was milk,so this means they were herders,mainly not farmers,as any mentally sane person will understand.
And is well known Celts were great herders of cows,also understood that in Wales there is a strong tradition in herding sheep.
And I doubt that if you drink milk you still need sun to get vitamin D,I know fresh milk is a very good source of vitamin D.
Actually most of my Acadian ancestors came from the Western Fringe of France. And since the Basques were some of the first people to arrive at Nova Scotia or Canada; and communicate and make trades with the indigenous natives; I would not be surprised if I had some Basque ancestry with my French either. The Basque people seem to eat a diet rich and high in seafood and seem to be almost immune to it.

Louisiana is a bit different from Nova Scotia or Canada though; we actually had population migrations from mainland France, as well as a small contribution from Spain. (mostly "Galician" and "Basque" Canary Islanders.) We are not just Nova Scotia or "Acadia". So not all of us are "Acadians" or "Cajuns".

Fire Haired14
15-12-14, 01:24
The latitude theory looks like a light bulb idea someone had 40 years ago, and that's it. It doesn't look very credible to me. People had been living in Europe for 10,000's of years by the time farmers from the near east arrived, and they'll skin color didn't change. Light skin in southern Europe if anything mostly derives genealogy from near eastern ancestry. Compared to everyone but east Asians and Europeans near easterns have fairly light skin. Light skin in northern Europe developed somewhere around 7,000-5,000 years ago in people who were almost 50/50 European/near eastern. Latitude isn't the only cause, that's for sure.

LeBrok
15-12-14, 01:25
Take a look at East Asia; Southeast Asia in particular. It has about the same frequency as Sub-Saharan Africa or Central America. This theory of skin pigmentation and environment still doesn't hold any merit.This is the clear sky index. In said places it is a tropical overcast region and people use do live in a shady jungle. Medium brown colour will be enough to survive there without crippling amounts of cancer.


I believe that Mongoloids, or East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Laos, Thai's etc.) have a lighter white skin color than white Europeans do. Yes, some of them are very light skinned. Let's point it out that they don't live in equatorial areas, but rather away from it.

Melancon
15-12-14, 01:30
This is the clear sky index. In said places it is a tropical overcast region and people use do live in a shady jungle. Medium brown colour will be enough to survive there without crippling amounts of cancer.

Yes, some of them are very light skinned. Let's point it out that they don't live in equatorial areas, but rather away from it.Not true. Why are their Indian/Pakistani (South Asian) neighbors a lot more dark-skinned than the East Asian Mongoloids? China is about as far away to the equator as Central America or Mexico.

They also may not share a common ancestor; where are the slanted eyes in the South Asians?

LeBrok
15-12-14, 02:13
Not true. Why are their Indian/Pakistani (South Asian) neighbors a lot more dark-skinned than the East Asian Mongoloids? China is about as far away to the equator as Central America or Mexico.
Here is a map of precipitation. You see that East Asia is very wet, therefore cloudy, therefore less UV radiation. This will allow lighter skin people to live there. Pakistan on other hand is dry, therefore much more sun and UV radiation. People needs to be darker there to stay healthy.
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQTEhMTExQWFhUXFR0bFxcYGRsaHBoYHxsYHBgfHx 0YHCggGxwlHhgcIjIjJSkrLi4uGyEzODMsNygtLysBCgoKDg0O GxAQGywlICQtLCwwLCw1LDQ0LSwsNC0sLC80OCwsLzI0LCwsLC wsLDQsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAJMBVwMBEQACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAEAAgMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUCAwYBB//EAEQQAAIBAwMBBgMECAMHAwUAAAECEQADIQQSMQUGEyJBUWEyc YEjkaGxFDNCUmLB0fBDcvEHFiQ0U5LhFUTiJYKissL/xAAaAQEAAwEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQFAgEG/8QAOREAAgECBAIJAwQCAQMFAAAAAAECAxEEEiExQVEFE2FxgZG hsfAiwdEUMuHxI0IVJFKCBjNDYnL/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/APuNAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQGFy6q5YgfMxQGv9Lt/vp/3D tAejVIcb1/wC4UBtmgPHuACSQB6kxQGn9Nt/9RP8AuFAefp9r/qJ/3CgNlvUo2FdSfQEGgNtAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQC gFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgML15VEsQB7kD86Aq266B/hXCP4YuQJAJPdlgMScnMGvLneXgn88T2x1ct4SlyT8LC1d25wA SUkEckkAZHvXmY6dFrivNfkDW3QQrBjuHhIstE jQ3hPz2j8QPbnOR2buvMpNQztBLXvET4Tb3gR742zzkcHzpdDq 5fGiDF6Y7okn0VwP/0gfUil0Orl8aOk0vQRtlz4iBjyB8xIOa9OCDe0t/hdMFj9pHWf/wAnmh7btK3qJuWvFdtuAf2vCwn3IYgH5142kexhKWyuRk6hbP7 UfMUug4SW6Ztt6hW4YV6cmD6gDl0H0/8AlQ9Su7Ihr1JwQVaR6qrDHByP6Vw5pcSWNJvdPzS9zu j2Fa2twqdx82JY44I3AEA8jA54HFdJ3VyOccrsWdenIoDxhjBi uJptWi7dp6iA nvNMuAAMROT7xBioKUK9/rl5f0TOVJftXmbdBpnUEu7MxJxMgegGAasRTW7I5yT2RLro4FA a0sgTlvqxP5nFAV9nqdlmK22e4QSDsDsAfOW H7z8ua4jZbfcnlTmleVl5f2TNPdM7e7cKBhmKwfb4i0/MV0iJrS9188CRXpya9RqFRdzsqqPNiAPbJrxux7GLk7JHN9T65 pX/91dQ4/V7x/wDzH88Vz1kSwsJVfD2ItzteqFQtxro8ybYU8jz3L5e1edbE7WC qNa2RaaLtXZuEBUu8gTtkAkwAdpJEmu001dFadOUJZZF9XpwKA wu3AokzA9AT AE0BrsapX GY9drAfeRQG5WnIoD2gFAKAo n9p7Dggl0IE/aLGMcbcedR9ZHiWZ4Wce3uLS/rFVdwhp4AK L5SQD99duSWrZBle1jl7nW9Y7MEt20AP7QJP4HPzqrWxkKbsy3 Sw0Wryfl/JEudr9Tbba6WjETAYY e7H3VJCq5K62O3h6Nt3d7LT56khu25UgNZBx y5H4Mlddacwwee9m13r Szsdoy4JS14cRLieMyACB99QVMZGDs0cfpHzKrq/U3ursuafcA0rsuFTx5jad3n99dxxMZbHv6eHFtd6ILaVHeUtXd PcSAQGEQODMSTIE1zWqxjrLQmgpQjljaSMtTobhUBr9xgGBAMs PDMHIHr/flGq8X/seqbi75F4E7X30uBXuAPeVgVKb7QjHmd2RE X9Z3Ui1chhJxeVaJ89fwVdnXpb7 zcQkXGzftr3bQWk sryY9MeePFJaosuDnlnF7cHqaum9Ja9qAiNc7oDF0oQBCADHGY jmSM0UbvQ6qVVCF3a/K5bJotVpXK2rs28SbkZJ52gkkmBzj dezk6abb0IM9KqtY69h0eh6iTi5zPKqY R5qvTx8f/k04XIKmGa/ayZrdMt221tsqwg/2KvP6o6cSvCThJNcDgbvQVF1ram7A89oifY5kRFZjxijTzadvD U0k831S /8E 30O0uGhvmSfw4qo8XXqq8U0u359ijPpLDUna vYi20XS1iVtj5kBR Ga8WExdbVySXi/exx/yU6i/xwfjp Sx0 iCkFgoziDP51aw/R06dRTnO9uzf53X7R pqONp2Xj/CJveCYkT6TmtVTi9EyLMr5b6mVdHQoDwmMmgKZOuh2K2lkCftG HjwkfvCflx7zWXX6Sy3VON7cfxbfjfbYo0sbGtWlThokn9T27L c 3VbG79OcGCVn5EZj54H31T/wCSxMoZlFeT58FcuOpShKMJS146abX5/dm631GT8Jj94ZFWqfSU3 6m 3Lq1fyJqcI1IZ4Pn6G29rVUSZ5iMT84J4q5DGUpQzbd jXmFSk9iJrr6XFZGD7TglcSPrVepjaMpZG/L Tyc oj1m/drY0trTbQdyisqgDYfB9ZGPpt tevpGnGSg012u1vRs8w84YnVS1 c/yc12l6pevBAouWwOUERuzB3gyRxggRz8p3VU9maOHp06beb1LM G 8xdcL4SACJHhWQTwfED5maqYrpCNF2uRxhC13b8lZ1Hswxhg3A zP8ALyHyqpT6VhOWVosQrJaLUjWOhgHIJ Zx FW5YmCW5451pabEpujJHA 6of1mux7lqf8AcQrnQG/ZfA4Hp IqaOMh2o6cpf7RTJWisdzJe6wPrvI/I0nWnJf4tSN/U7SVuwa3rT2SrW33ZnxZ fp60w8GnmkrNHWRVLx4WNX 92pJwyc8bRitBSbejKrpQhF54tPg DZje1l 2m8XWBYyY9Yxnz4qR7FWmk5pPa6PNL2r1SryHA/aZSfxBFQKqzTnhKTem/eXPSO1F9wZsq cEHYPlndNeVMVCnHNNlSeGadtF6/ZEvX9p3srueyMwF2vuz5yYEY9J lc0sZCo2knpz0OKVBVf/bkmRNJ213sENoiZyHHoTwV9qn61XJXgpKLbaOta0piQMcY4/uK6lCMt0U1JrZmOoUkYAJ9/wDSocTSlUpuMbX4Nq9jlylH9v4Kq9bZBhYk8gCPkAB/KsWrgKk556 vBW0IMVjayilCNvX5cpl6O99lvKFBYEHdBFsgkHw8swj4TEHzx FW6FCrKioR0XF317u/nty5nsMbiq9BWSjJ8d7c9H/twfBdtiuv9m9cAd6WtRBMMLhRyOcSu0emZ8qlhg6sFaMl5EeGl jcNpGSkuTv7/AJvYi9L1tmzcZblxrZwrWnXxK2CJIJHHniZqpjKk5LK4WkvIsQ 6Zp0241IyT8H7HWJpwYKODIkfIjHFZP6qUP3R8UasMQpwUraMx/RwqlCplvNYExn09qmpV1KoqspXjHh2vQ9aUtYuyNNrR3APFB9x/STXc8TQlrF2O41FtcPZPBX8K6VTKrpnf0ssundItQGIk hmB9K2MFKFWGbNmfsZ1aVpWitCcmgUOXWQTk5ME/f8Ahx FXsqvdEObSxX3RDvNpCN0lo2k mfpWLisXao6co315O/pxLKdOEFJzs7EtNTbXbnnkDMV7g6GHpWqRcr8n99vbuKFbGU07 Zk 4ng1tkhC12hLyVbaSPOSD NU6 DjUedWzdqKmIw85p5JWv32fqQ z/TLlve94guTAgkgL HPyrjB4SVK86jvJ S7EVujsDOhedWV5vyS5IuavmoYXrQZSrCQeRXMoqSs9jmcIzWW SuiFoui2LTl0SHIjcSzGMcbiY4HFRww9KDvGOpDTwtGm7xirkz UahUEuwUSBJMZJgD5kmKklJRV2TSnGKvJmSMCAQZB4Neppq6PY yUldbHHq pvK/wClI6hXhkXwW4mJknc6 ZMx7Yxj4jrqmZTuorlou/w48OJhYmVepfrU1FPg7K3bx79bW1tyuek2QwMrgcGcT5fOpMNR U5OUuVl2fm nxlnBRjONmvG j5eXlz4GjUqZO9pMY5z FeTTu8z18SvWUnJ55a8PlkYpe2ztJ/L8M1HZbq/t/Z5Cu6V1Tb eYW9PxZ9D51Vq4bNLNB2fHt/ks0OkJwi4T1TRH6ffcJ4gN0mflJjj2j7q8nh1WalU0sVcLi50o WS33v8APfkSNFljzjnBggjyPBqLH1UoOLXj2lnoyOatdPbfTdP t7zfc0qQfKqFPEVnJJas kniHCLlLZHukZfhWfnXuKo1I/XUau BUp46OIm1FbcSQyyINU4ycXdFlOzuivv6ULndj5Vo0sTKemUsw quWliHqQYOzJ8vKr1FrN9exJLNbQz03iALeHEkH19KjrPI7R11 Dk7bFP1HozXX3B eBHnV6nioQhaXA9TcL2RHXstdgyQPYZo kaN1r4nixMW7K1 8tLvTbCKlt1ycBuDuief7zUCxVRtVFK13ont8Zg4zpmNCv1ctU 9PH2NB7KX2Mbpt4gkwflHy861oTqzp3cbdho06uHspxWvjodBp eh7UCbccHIgD681nTwuLqVb6JHk8Xlayq/NkbT9n7dp5S42eV8p9vT8anxGWf8AhTvLj2fPF9hzLHJJN9qXb z fcn6zoa3VhgOZ9RPrUeHwGKptZpp8PD5zIsPONG7jG1zT0/sratOLgLFgDjw7c xBI taNNIlnipyjlZfVIVjwih4zC3ZA459SST68nMVxGEY7fn3OI04 x29dfc2V2SCgKjtB2ds6sKLqyVnaZIIkR5EecHMjFQ1aMKtsyI K HhWtmRx o73TkWmeO68KtseLlsKNrZBEgSDmBHNZTpQouSqpuPOx5hsasJ B0at7R2lZ2t224ruOj0/UVFtC8biqxAMEmBjzrGrYW87xl9LfHdd53V6WoQd2pWdrab35f zYy/S2Jx611 mgo6o2VRikye7wCYnFVcNThUllm7X27 BQr1XTg5JXKu9dJk5J8gP5Vu06UaUbRX5Z8zXrzqNyld9n4N/TupNPjDx6Egn86tUMTJ/vTt22JMJjpp3qJ27bfkr p9TCNLHdPlIkDyx6VTxOLjTf1a 5n4zHRhK83f3Ki9qr1xt1oOF/Zjz/qfvqhOriKrz0724Izp1MTWfWUr22S59vaXXRdZqLTINQyrbYlQ twqrYE7hOYBgZPnxWjg6uKouPXtKL0s7J9/28TX6PrY2g4/qZJQelpWTXb9tXx0R1gM5Fb59Pue0AoBQCgKPqnT7txn7xg2nj FoAyxjAJAn4oMziqNejUnP6n9Ftuf9MzcTQrVKl5NdXb9ut2/4dnoYdM1zWbW26GJXgbt7DzCkgnyjJPmKio4l0qdqi24bvu0vw 5kFDGSoU2qy22Ss32LRvhbfmiJ/6u1xg 0qIMY8uZMGfL2ndwarfq5VZKdrL7fPO5S/XyrTVRqyt6b8Pjvsbm6ptAWUQHAAAAPHFSPFZFa6V/AmljXBZbqK5aGpSPKuVbgQJrgbRbMfCeeaglVip/uVrPQtQoTcP2O7aSZn3O0jccVA8YpweRa8i7S6Lq9Yr7X4dn5N b9QXcAdsennUMMJUjG8W7m/PC0ZRtKxG1nXbKqduW4CiMzXdPAYiUl1j07dTylhYwd4K3ctPb TXo9fu DBHxZB mDFT1sKo/v1XDsLD t2ZsvallMySPPNc0sPTmstlcTtHhoTbV6VMNLfSQcGI/vBqnKilNJqy9La63 PQzcdn1VPRqN1bVvXl6PxK671a2pA3A7SZ8QOfMZPA4q/HBOabWifz1LdB1OrXWx prWxiep2WIyF85LYn6GvVhK1Nb38PyS5pcmHUXAhBIhp5 ITjjyipHJUrxtw39/iOknJ3v/H8k3p1wF4PI/OqGMhJU7x2Z5Uk3FrzJguKuYyf/NQ9TWrvI3pHy exhyr4eh/khHWX2/nzNFkru3MFkGRImD6j3rTblSUVCCk1z4W4mXSdOdR1KtlxV1fX sLnS39xg/ugj5GtbDVak1/kSTsnoa8asJPLHknfnc3uMH5VZaurHcldNFb0bp7Iim7BcfUD0 sR9ap4XCuEU6msjPwWDlTgutd5Ly/vbxLSrpoigFAKAUAoBQCgOf7bWd9hQZ/WrwYMQ24fUSPrVLpCWWj4oz k5ZaHiim1N 0gALEbGLeFpEk4EDMDED2rKhhpz1W2luG3zu18DUrdHQrTpPVK FrR4aWf2LBriggfwgfJvL76rZKjTfb5rj5GmnLb5Yn3rvhzyRx VTC0HKreO0XuY/SFeFOm4cXdI5XVdYZbngJULgnGc85BipquOlGr9DtbQ CrdIzjW/xtq2nD SRrupK925ydsbGFzYPQkg/FzOB5elT1cTCrUm29rZXe3989F2alqviqdarUk3 22V5rX9Neei7NUUupm457vdcdhMbYM/JSccZqlGDrVcyvLnp/LM nSlXrZ4pyXHT7Xemx1mk7LXE2ut/bciNwWQojyDfF6eWPurdw/RUqUs6nr7fnlwPpML0I6E sVTXh2Llrvy4F4/Srbwbqrdb951WYmYGMD2/OtR0YS/ek xtOhCX70m 1Il2rYUBRgAQB7eVSJJKyJUklZGdenooBQCgK7VdXRb3cFWLbN IjbJHmfaqdfGQpTyST2v9ipUxSjV6nK22r6W 77Cjv2Ll26VtJstnAmCsRBnaZWDwB6eU1mSUq1Vxoqy27tOzbs xjVcPWq1bUo5YPba3bs7q21ufIiXuyzKMtvIkm2rEFknkEiN04 iI968/4 pBWun2Lil2v29SP/i6tNWbTa/1jxS7Xx7LeJptWHsBWQ97YJAliFa2WKgBlOeWAwD8hXsqUofXT d48nutuz52cVSjKH10nePFN2a28vm3G30aDcSylFPLEAAx58/nXvVuX/wBU937k EUI1M1SNl27ac wtn7vPjAAxmYB K7eDwfWuzXc/ff8n0MsSlBq9uF T9ik1GoLtcskglQIdDKgGYJ9DjK5iR61V/TrDVLws/Hf8Pz 5UodI1YVurmsydtY/PTXvInXuiqunVrQVv pcdpuDgiMgDzHyj51uUnGpBSjsbMcQ4Sd13JbFBp1tGzcG37SR tbdELOceZ/r7ZmUYtaEU61aM7y3Rl0TUBLuTCsIzwT5VRxUFOLUS/BTyJz1f2Oq71WBRSm8LkE8Hyn2isdpxWeSdrrbivzcrTddV1b9 lvUotXpWLHdcHOQkiYwCZ84rWouLissWu8klNxdypTpzHdGdrQ Y59jHpVuEMyudVcZka ndXI123tMGvJQyktCv1qelrHV9Ft7bQ X/AJP51l4t/Ukcwd5SfaW2kXaZjn8vlzVCrGdZKMb6bW WKuJr0IXUpa8uJGPVLdy4LamTO0YwTNS4SUYvIt2/Xv8An3Pjq OhiayhDuWmj1 e5a2ukEsN5AQZIByT6E n5/nrRwcm1n29/wCPcuQ6PlKaz/t5c zu58 7ff0/Vu73ItxbnwvuUyR4SNqk YPp5YqzTnJzf0/Tzv4bF2lOcqkll nnfjta3h2FiKsFo9oBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgNWpsB12sJ/kfWo6tKNWLjI4qU41FaSOG63oRp3RyIMwCMgrPiJkcifyqhTpV FCUJ BawKnCORv6b6XbbXJXfp2aXubdApR2dn3LcZdjE IjOCDx6R7VRrfXDJGNnFO64fPnEtpZkt1a nC/hvz8deFp3Xb0W3jgLAz61SpLJhpTvq9/Y R6erT pPSy9 PzkcOXNI4enF3sYsMHSi7pa J7bUkhVkkmAByTU2RSdrXJ qUnbLc hdkOjtZRmuKBcY8zJCeQPkDM8e3pW3gsN1UdVZv2PoMBhephqk m/Y6CrpfFAKAUAoBQCgKnq/dqd5MPAnids p4GazcZGlmu7ttWt2fNitWwuZqok73Sut/nH4yt/3iton2Tb2JmGEkk8CFIj0rijnpvq6VPTTV/Puy7Uw9Tg1Hne75apJr7am3RdoQXUXQE3AjcQFAPpO4/wAv5Vbj12e88qXZucQot3eZN9is/VsuRZRkaSHVuWO0z6cCMQPuqXJHK7vfdkXUKzjLW 9zV iB7YUNIHwvO6fn/QVF nUqeS nB7shlhVKmoPhs/nMq sp3FtnZpyAo284yDM4J88YMe9UKvR6T33aS4acdu7Tb7k0KdSS VFy m7b0u7auV73um xbriVGg66pP2q7QTgj4QfbEjnzqDEdHVYQ/wAbvb1LlGhT6yUoyvdLRpWS5LTz7jdf1ThX0x7txcQtbYiJkxl t3iaMggDj7pKWJqKg8iWjt3cXff5uUJUsZSpyqUlG6btFX /4t4HPaqwve3AsqA3KiR7yPITMHyrQo58ikayqXpxhV1lZXvpqS tPbTUmPhW2AFCnbg/tGQZJPljiqk3Kirp3u P2O6069LL1cU773b9LL35mq6sLCbtw Jhh887hz6ZBP0qahiaVaKjJW7DMwvSUMRJyhe/8A2y3Xrrbs24og6K8VufMwZ9 KlaXA25wzUlfe1y5192xaVXcDcSB8RU53ZkH E1nVcRVhNqL08Pw Zi9JY2WFpQyRTbfHay3 xH06aW9kFk85LBgfq0/nXP6 ov3W/wDL8r8GfR/9RRi7V4ZVzjp7NevqdFZ1FhFFtSuMZImfn61QqZ5Vc0qi7k/SxYj0/h27OVn4NejN3Tup2 7rcCWxMTn0n3rRweJpqcaV z L/EZVPH0ZYt04tfU3rb034 PmSdf08pqLeotkIiqe/kmCgAiFAORn0rSnRcaqqQ0XHu4GhOg41lUhouPctrL iPqOqaq saS0qhpi7cbw7YgMoAMnIImRAPyqSUqrVoK3edyqVZr/ErdrLXoWg7ixbtmNwEuRmXOWMkAmSTmK7owyQSe/HvJaFPq4KL349/En1ISigFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUBD6po 8SFgODKE8BoIz6ggkEehNeNXO4TyspDZEAuo2qYG4ZV8jbmDHo fMEetYeMw0qTcqTaT31 avgTVMZCjFOppdpefzzI1hv0ibVxShDbDx6 Eio44SD i/0zt33MrpvC060oJvSWn48SyTsfpAVJtliv7zMQ3 ZSdp9eK144OjHgI4GhHhfvPNZ0Nbb2rumtKHW6Nyg7QUI2NE4E DMfPzNeTwyjKM6a1T9NmeTwsYSjOlHVP0ej fkvwatl0UAoBQCgFAKAi9R1otLu5Jwo9T/AEoDlNLbF68Xuw5YYH7KwPL6DmuVFJ3O5TbSjwRYXdBaUExt9/75ro4I2l0auvxZ9ImPSgJi9NTxTJ3fFBIB45AMHivLI6zS5mb6 FCd0Q37ykq3pyM VenibRG6r0nvLJVBlRgc HzgeteOKZ1Cbi7o4SxzBOPSoaertc0cU1GOdLV8eX8nVWLFi9p tibFa2D8cjBglpiQfl6V5PDpyUouz9yrTxLT vUg6boN3buRe9UjwlGAVpGQVYhhBPmAZHlUqjZHFSqpy7HbV7k Rul6i23dtbKlxjgrHnkSJH3j65rVXGCbnoXesjZSUrpb337zf1 jVWrlu1EtcTh4IIOJywB/0rAnK7ll3vty/lnxHS2Nhiqn BXcd76X77 nLiVep6leA3DbcYcd5n6gnM fIqai1GW7S7Pljmhi69J3jOXam7ryZSdY6nc1KWwI zWWERk4JHrAj5VacaUZ5pvMnd6PXx24HWKrSrOMpSvpty7PKw6 XpGADlio5gHBHqfLNVHZvQqm3X9RZGjbIABkz/YrhQjFWSOI04QVki77LdNZ7ouNfItJcXeSME7htQH1YlRHoflV rC089RX2XHysi5hKTnUV/2rW/bdWXez6ywnB4rfPpD2gFAKAUAoBQCgFAY3AYO0gGMEiRPlIkSP qKM8fYZUPRQCgFAKA1amzvRl43KRPzHNcVIZ4OPMjq01Ug4Pir HF9R0 tsgEKLpRgVdZIMSPGoE5B8uPWsR4atQkp72d7r7/NO0w6lHFUXFyblGGq4 n8adp71jtm 1bYs3rDswBZwo2e8HlJ/aIGAat18XNpRgnFu2rLGJx85RUKacZO37tPf8HTaf9HvjD27xU AMQysfOJ28Hk VaDgmtdTTShNczL9GuojC08mfD3p3KoxjwgNHzJ tcOE4xeR68L7fn3OHCpGL6t68M2qXlZ rJOjNzYvehA8eLYSV3e24Ax8 PfmpI5rfVv2EsM1lmtfsN9dHYoBQCgFAcz2x0rXO7CTOZzAj5 v08qhrV4Utz1OC/fJJHP6NNRa/wi0HEEfh6ioljaVrt/PEm6ulJ2hUi/HX0F7XXy8vabxYUfy/1rpYqnq7qy7Tv9LdXUke6HqZtP8AaqwIPmI/1qSFaE1eLOJ4ecdd 4tk7R2jMC4T5ALP5eVdOpBbs8/T1OXsRl7TqPiH0iD deqUXxOXRqL/AFZpt9THfretLcYsyggcACAQPKTnkxmo5VacLts76qo1ZqyRq6 30q1acXZJS7LInnuxIPtmo5ptpw4lqnVcoOEuHEgabp11j3aIS T4iAePQEnGKsQjZFSvUVSV0fQ kdNFlf4jEx7cD6V0Qku9aDCDxXM4KaszmcFOOV7Hz3qvT3fBVT 3buG2wpEOSsmTyhBHPPFfN4ilKnWajqlvbz4/L33PlcZRlQrLIk4q97b73Sd Nn/AGb zXYncTe1UwxxZIiViF3A5HkY9efStHC4Nv66i8PyaeDwLdp1V4 fky7Y9mVt91e0liX/VG0qmCpkhsYUgg5ODu VWsVho1KWWK21VvniS47BRlBZFryRwGrQC3EMQG82A2nzU 4Pt51izhKLyyVmY8ouLae6PpXZno lvrbv2wr2u7A8ZYuboYE7x8IIiIAgzjEVtQwkFJaLReN 3gbmHw9GVpxStbxv28PnI6Lqupt6ezuKSodAqKBO5nVVgcfEQf pVl2SLk5KEb25FhXRIKAUAoBQCgFAR9dYZ02o5ttIIYCeCDxOQ Yj60BRWNLdm4q61t9oqHLJIEqCPiYqcGgJzdP1J41ZHP EnoI/EE/XyoDLSdTRWNlrpuXZuH4dvhVkkY8J298i fQwBZWrm4TQEPW6O6zFrd/uwVURsDDBeTk e4f9o5oCNo9Jeww1RZN5MG2uV3SVnn1AI9fYCgJX/q1qCZMC93RhSYuFgsccSQJ4zQE6gFARdf061eXbdQMIjPMfMZF cTpwmrSVyOpShUVpq5zXR lfoGovlbVxrd/btZDvKlScMNoKybnMkeEkkVxRpKlFxW1/wAFehQjh28qdn4mfUu29pLi2k3FtxFwbTuQjkEevvkcczUGIxf VNRtvx5HFXpCFKVmr/bv09iLo/wDaCj7vsjI8twn6g8Zmq66SaX1R1K//ACtlrD1/j1Ol6J1m1qU3W2EiN6T4kJyAR/PjBrQpVY1I3iaNGtCrG8f6LGpSYUAoBQHL9uukXbtrvdO7C7aB OwCd65kAATv9PXjzkVMThI17N6NGdj8Gq6z8UfOOj9fultpY7j OflyCPXH4VizoypTs7pmB1SjLS6Lq3126p OR7xFR/Ve7d z 33Ooyqwvlm/t9vc9/wB42E94yMp5DRXn1R1W/l7WJqeLxdG7p1G3ydrextXtE0A2wij ED7vb6RSo6k3d29X/HodVekMfVVnUS7kbf8A11WGbSM3739j deOrVjG9vJu3lb7nS6Yx9KlbR24/wBr7 JH6r1slVRQUUmIUZJ kY/pXEKzqPMl5v7/AGKkuk6 NV5/tXD3fgW2j16i0Ll77XZEiSI3EARGCQJn1x6VpYDE2vGOv2er9f Q3 hMT rTo5ruOqfZy8PudL2d6h3wcqgW2DCxiTJn8Nn1mtqLbWu5pSjl LeujkUByvaDo7m/3luQlwA3iJ8PdgwYGWLKQsfwD1qhjMO6kotePcjLxuDdSpGcee vh79x0mi1S3baXEMq6hlPsRIq9GSkk0aUZKUVJcTdXp0fP37IJ qLep27k1A1N4tuGGDOWtiJ42FCGHBn5VUr0VXu3 7a5nVMKq6k/wDa739PCxf9i zh0VlkL72dtzQIUGAIHrxz51JQpyhH6ndsnwmHdGFm73LXqNgX Va2wBXDEn95SGUR5iRnj8cTSV0TzSkrMreyuu3C7aJO 0w3Kd5FvcJCh3AZ8hjJGNwGYBPMJ5u9bkdCpmvHivQvq7JxQCg FAKAUB4aArOl32ZGJvK/w5KwFJVSZ GQZkfP6UBZXHCgsTAAkn2HNAc11rXlC3/EAjxHutoDjNiCCIJVQ2cf4q5wKAsuz o32NwJOWyfnQGdm S2n 2WGtkkR tO1DuGMRJMe/3AT7Rkcg 44/M0BXXNSYnv1H/EBZgEfGoNrj4iJWeQTQFpQCgFAadZqVtI1xzCqJJ9q5lJRTkzm c1CLk9kfDu1HWS969dWFd2IMTKhYUDPDQsmqUk8XXiqkfpitLr dXbXqz5/HYh4qazrSKsu67evi2UGnvNukEz6 f31JjaFCNJytZ8Lcys0XNu6bdkMjG25PKMVYicgkGYxx7VixnK OsXYRk46p2O6/wBnfa5e7axq74DqxNtrrfEhjBdsEgzyZgj0rfpV4zpqd7c xmzgsXFwy1Ja9p9CVgQCDIPBHpUxpHtAKAUBVans5pbl03nsI1 wiCxHPzHBOIkiYxXE6cJ2zK9iGeHpTeaUU2S9F02za/VW0Ty8KgY nlXkaUIO8Ukewo04O8YpHzP8A2k9C0umFprNvZcuOxIDPtKxmF JhYZlgCPlHFPG5IUsqSV3cy kKNKnFZVZtnFKykNuLcSAOC/GfQROeePpkq3EzFbie6S4wYBSRJAx/Tzrw8O86OGUKzWlffOx8QCpKNmTt8WM/jXPV5EpJb7bc 3b0d9jyMI0o5 rTzL6eFtd/Pnx5nUp0jvlZGjYSCYxBE mSSc59quYWlKpPNHS33t OHifV4Z/pskaUVt9TVtX4Ph2rYvtDpFtW1toIVRA/mT7k5Pua3ErKxLObnJyZvr05FAeEUAVQAABAHApsErGnXafvLb IS6yOUYow9IZTINeSV1Y5nHMrexwem1dy31OzbvMReCbA24BL9 mW2EwcXVYvjzK4jExRU1Lw1emv3KMZSjXUZPW3mvyWXb3tc h2rbtbmuCVuN8C8gjHLDBj3qxFXJMViXRWi3KX/Zv1Aol/U6gktfuqouO4XewBx4iFkCc 0egrlyi3ZdxDgqn0uc3uzvhqgNpCQHJZj4cAL8Rg5mB7xFeWs9 EX722W5s0/ULVydlxG2uUMMDDiJUx 1kY969PVJPZkmh0KAUAoBQGjWXCoBUqDuUeIwILAN9YmPeKAh9 LLFWMWSYSO7MD4VwYnjyPpGBQE7VfA FPhOG Hjz9qA5DtEjta8I05Gc243zNg4yRtPiLZ87fzPFR2VyagoOdp7 Fp2SRho4MBpf4uOTE 1IO6uK6gp2hsTbE7tPAsgd2Zjn4Uju4/Z9fYCuyEnhoWWhYknOAPmQKArQWhv XB/SR8iu9cHP66B75AoC2oBQCgNGts70ZQYkVxUhni48xaMtJK6Pg XaLpot37ohgN7fF85OfPms6jja8LU3FPh5fOR8rK8ZNPg2vJlf atxUOMxUq1otWscN3My0ZqtRpSqSyx3CN2mQFgCCZMQDH51HcH Y9At6hH yv3AFyELHZA8iDgjy8q9jiqqkoU3qvKx4sbVhNQpPVavkkj6T2 f1r3rCXLihWaeMAicEZOCM1v4apKpTU5Lc mwtWVWkpyW5Y1OWBQCgFAV3Xek29Taa26g aEj4W8j/fIkVDXpKrBx8u8gxFFVabjx4d/A IdR6eyeQwYgAz9a dTurnzBJ6FpgG3uswRAYH64xNdLc9W50WicIjne 7ISSSJnB5iJzH51DfI23tHa3zxKsm6bk2tI7W ePqfR iEHT2iBEoCeJkiTMYmZmvpcNl6mLjs1fzPrsHk6iDhs0n56 ZOqcsigFAKAUAoCi7U9l7OtUB5W4vwXF Ie3uPavGrpp8SCvh41laRD1VgsqWr/TVuIhhTba06KsY295sYcAEbRjzPFcuUo7K/ccSvZRlTuuy33sbr/Q9MbdmwqvbS3cLqoV/iZXXDEHINzdg42 gNd7HfVQsorS3z7lzZKvIliVhS2VBI54gT6x8vLHKknsSRalsU HaLsnav2bu1WRmm6FV43XyDlgTtJmBM/XAriqpOLyt3sV6 HU4O1776czl zadU07OStxrdsgPauNuBU/EbZzJGT4Z9IJqShk/T/U2pLhb1ueYaEoUHKUnnT/a1o1zT58bfc g6C93s3Uuq6EQqqIWQTO6ZO7y8o9PTxa6pliLzfUnoTLd2cEQ0 ZH9D6T8q9TO0zZXp6KAja5CVUBd3jXExEMDPPlzHqBQETp nIVw1lVkJ4d24NCqMyTkHH0Bk0BYahZVhEypxxOPWRFAc7rNEz FS2mVTsYd4rAssmx4PUg7Tngd0vrirjanV0nLuJqCTnZlhoVZL ACJuO4 EmMHnmmCqdZSUu8V0lOyM9LpiDpz3KrtQg L9USqiFAwRiPp71aISRft/Yuotg BotyACSDiRgT6 9AQm0xjGmX/mQ0FxxuB73/MOdvOIoC4oBQCgFAcv2o7LrfJuBAW2x7g Zzg WMcc5NVauGzTVSGjTv32KtbCxqSU1pJO97LXv5 9tOR881PZq4iqGYFBmbfEtkciZ YrHxVZVK852td7cuzw2Rj46lOFaU5RUVJ7LZX1yrlba1kU t6eUYASVMAE p8jUKd9UU001dHty0bLAgncOCR4TPI5x/fFenp1XQrDXdRYtMDseRd2tGArGJGYkc/lXeFw8JVldb951hMLTliFdb9/I rgRgV9IfVntAKAUAoDXqXKoxAkgGB7 VeO9tAfMn6TdYlz4t8vIxMmfP8q XnGqm1FXtvr81PksXSxVGbi4a776Pu xoTprsCYhRMk 3PvUSnUs247cSpGvVs247cb6e1zA2GhVUglmgW1gtOYkRP3GK7 o3mrrjw9CTDt1Vdby4dq0a eJ3un1g0WiR74I2j4VEmSTAiec1uYb/AKbDRVXgfRYS EwkVW4fEu8x7G9YfVW711xC98RbERCBUx7kGZPmZ4EVYw85Ti5 S4vTuLGEqyqxc3tfTuOgqctCgFAKAUAoBQHhNHoeN2Vyi1HU7r m6lu3C7YVySJYjmFyAM c1k1 kcsnFJJW0b01/BmPF1qkpRoQukt9VqQugvftP9vcdkiAOQD6nG77qjweKnn/ySuux3/kr4bEYinU/6hNR89e3RehssdajXNbyyXSqqZwpVCTA8wSIx51Zp4yMsS6Sd7/YsU8fCWLdGLvde250yqBwK0TUBFABPnQGFy8AQDyZgeeOfpx94 oeXI/VVBRZRn 0t4XkeNfEf4V I wND0h9JsBUcCy9uQnhDHPgUYOMiIOZxmgLLVrNtwQSCpEAkE4O AVyD7jNAc lpbbqw09xGCON5Y7P/bAg5yx2iGji02c5pdIUlVoODdtURVqzowzosXfdaUlGaHBASZk HBkcfhXnR9FUqCinxYo13WjnaNegsqv6IBZuDZZIUsSe6AS2Nr E5YkYkzlTV4lJuqtg2LilWIKMCpJLEEGRI3GT9aAr9PaXafsLg nVbiGM Lep7z/LIBj5 VAXlAKAUAoBQHDdTsq9y7bUqCxEgASIG6Z5PoBwPpWLj6X1pQV m93r3mV0rRiqScYLNKX7v8A8 /zjY5brV1LJMHcPpnifmKy6MFG6TuuH3PnMLDJmSd48PuV/StK tvC0o8yQJgKoGWYwZ5GB61co0nVllRoUaMq0ssT6b2V7K/op33LnevEKdu3aPPzMn39K1sPhFSeZu7NrC4JUXmbuzpauF4UA oBQCgFAcdr9aumuG0wO2SyHyAJmMeh/CsnFYOTqOcHbNv6k6w1PE2cr3jw8tfsTHvKVB2gkiY9R5Y9DWV ThVvKGbbnZ9/MzsfHCUqmWUE7q9l6XXJ6jsxpV7xryKQHU7iTMMShhfbmtPo2m 8znbRr10f98DP6NhF1HVpxai073tu7Oy7N feWXaPSNdsMiiTzHqRkefrFXsZTlOnljzL2OpSq0sseZl2e0Hc aazaiCqDd/nOXP1Yk1PTjlgo8iejT6umo8kWAFdkp7QCgFAKAUBjcJAJHMYm vG7K56tWcZqO0jkFviUYKjETz/ZrOrRnU0zNfPm5djRjL6JR3RA1faUHaFUx6cR/Wq1LApNym7t8SejhuqjlgrI2r15Qu4GPUTn7qfoYt/UezjOTyuN/Ys0Zb1sHaDEHHl5gj0IImflVbI6dXJKV1wvz7z57pPB04wU6cb Pjbh5bd5ZdC15kWLhLOF3KxzvUEAknyYEifmPeNbCV3L/ABz3S35r8kGAxTn/AIp/uS35rn38y5YTj/x VXjSPEBAyZ9/9K8R4jKvT0idTICrO/8AWJ8HM7xE/wAM8 00BC6ORseGv8JPeQzfAuRAPI5HAM4FATuo3lVCG3wwI8E7h4GJ jbmYWBGZIoDj vsotiDqfgMC5m2wnTeInPjGABIObuOaz k4Z8O49qMzpil1uFce1E/obj9BQk3AO9/w/i KB7xOTHp6TToyGTDqPeOh6XVYVRvxfuWmgInSw98/YmA0ZEWv1uJ7zgg 7etaBpkzUuBZckuRsaSBD8HgEDPpQFXYVTaIFzUgDVLliN5IuI duR pJwf4S1AX9AKAUAoDXqWhGIIEKckSBjmPOuZyyxbPHKMVmlsji 7Fp7Vu6zeJmYtj5c/wA45rCxGJVRupBbR24/EUemq2XDRUE3u0zk9ToGvAgKzcfCpJB8uPrVHDXcFFJvS58xgr ypqCTbtfTvO67D9lV0qC42bzqN38IkmBOQeJ9xX0GEw3VrM936 fOJ9PgsJ1Szy/c/T5xOqq6XxQCgFAKAUAoDl 2XR3u921oAtO1hHlyDPlEfiPSoa88sb2v3K/sWMPKnGX1X7Pn57uJ7pOmXjbCsIeILziPqJ8/SstYSpKbyqyZmdJ0I4mSlSTT1TbtstvfQv9Bo1s21tpwo8 SfMn3NatGjGjBQhsiXD0IUKapwWiJFSkwoBQCgFAKAUAoBQHK6 3pxu3H2BlIYzKmDHBExjIyOYrGpqpGcoQj9KenC38cvc5oY Ms0ZRldNrbhz1K7RdiLhk3XUT6SSPfgD6VoRpt67fPnE05Y5f6 o0arsXcQ4uKw8zBED5Sc 1Q1Zuk7NN9q fPM7/X00m5aEns5oGtOwZseUcYmeeKzMfVjUpJQ3f3FaosjnbS3mWnQ rTXL7Xh4baBkAPJYkH0 GI86t4CLnUdTgll14vi 4 P6Oj1teVdK0VeK87vw24nS1rm4KA8VgRIMj1FE7hO xV9W1G10Hf91Jt42bt03rYAny3zs9fET5UB50m CjkXy4ATLqV2yi58Xk3P1OTQG7rF4Kqfa92WYgEKWLHY5gAcnE xBnbHJFAcP271o/RcalnJE7NhXd4tN4wTkAbhiYPet 7iHEUnVhkjuUukFeg/An9hr/wD9OsnvGSb5G7aWklyoBjiSRk4mPlTD0nSgoS3GAVqC8TptHd/5YG8W3WiRKlTcwniM4BzO2Jz7GZi6bdbqlW1m4RuDBXUbjIV2J AUHICk/SgIS6gG0pXUNm gL7CST3iDZEeEOPDPHjkQIFAXdAKAUAoCi7YX2WyoUTuuKGEge DlpnywB9ap45N0WkrlLpCLlRypXu1pz7PHY5zpjXDqGsOxdbgM FgRIjkRxiaq1MJngsqs7bdnJ/Lmxi6NHFYdxmu/svodX0roNuw5dC0kEZOADBxj286nwvR1LDzc43uzBwfRNDCVHU he701LWr5pigFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKA8 IoeNXKjqejRVki4yswBCQYBzxHGI/8Au9qza FowWZp6vhbT024eJn4ulGMPqc3Fu1lrb OHZfutY6KwqIqqu0cxzE5PPzq7RpxpwUYqy5FvD0oUqajBWXLv 1N9SkxE6n1BLFs3HIAAwPNj6D1NR1asacc0iKtWjSjmkROj6a6 GuO7EIx3JbgCJAmRkgyOAYySecQ0I1M0pSej2Xz883xIMPCrnl KT l7L3/q/NvfTLqVxhcSLtpAQJDDxMe9tjBPrO0D95lq0XD3pd1mV/tUf4fEBgHYsyBHzHsRQGfVdSAIF23bYZO CIKvtkHylT5jCnNAcX291n/CEvfs3E81UAtuDWMgj9kFjOP8RM4zd6PVN111i01L/RtOhUxCjXScddHqbuweq/4Kz3d22gZztDjk94wYAGOZAwefnTpBU1XfVrTQdJU6FPEONBJR 00Wh1mmvFjpyLlohrZY7YPeDakMn8IJ59CvrVIoDqlwhFJuW0 KWYAD4HiAZ45OeAflQGq1fbYCb1kk31AZYAI3LKRnxkSOeSD7U Bb0AoBQCgOF/2haFr2o0aGVtAsxuSAAwjHEqYHM vpVfEyeTKv9mkZ2Og6koQ4N7/OPIuey mPiuG2irkI237Q IjmfCuIjk4M vdJWiktUuPM1pJQio3d9Pna ZfhgZAIxzUiaZCpJuyZlXp6YXbgUFmIUDkkwB8yaAw0 qRwSjq4BglWBAP0oDZcuBRJIAkDJjJIAHzJIH1oAXEgSJIJA8y BEmPQSPvFAZUAoDW15RuJYAL8WR4cTn0xnNAe2bqsAykMp4IMg/UUAF1Su4MNsTukRHrPEUBimoQqrhlKNG1gQQZgLB4MkiPWaAzt uGAIIIOQRkEUBlQCgMWJxj5 1eNs8bfAyr09FAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoCAek2zf787mcCFliQuCD A4EzUPUR6zrHv7EPUQdTrHv7E piY1XtOjRuVWggiQDkEMpz6EAj3FAYPpwqtsRJIAiAAYEKDA4H HBj0oCD1TTXGYlLVl8Lm4J8rsj5Dcsf539aA5vtX0K9e0zIdNZ ktjuhDRNs8 h25/yLV3o901XTquy1Ia9WvShmw/7vDx3LPsH0UWNIlu5a2sGbDCTG8svPoTIp0g6brt0ndaChVr1Y ZsR 7jt9joLektrs2oo2LtSFA2rAEL6CFAgegqkTEXV2XKKFt2twLY YSANrgEcQTIkfxET50BpTTXNoBs2Ae/DEDK7ZEuMD7TGPl50Bb0AoBQCgNOq0qXBtdQwkET5EcH51xUpx qRyyWhHUpxqRyyWhlashZic XvUVDDKjdRbtyfDuJpSctzZVg5FAKA5M9nb8Mm9SpSB9rcAI2A C2UC7QN4396PFmIgmgNp6LqWvF2uAW5tnZ3jMPBdsOIBQQQttx O47iwPhkgASdd0e6 o/SFdAVKqi5/VwwuS37JJuMYAIJtWpOMAaG7PXe7ZBef4G2E3rsi4bVtVJMyQH VmgzkzE0B7rOlaptyrcAWbm0964Zg963cE AhNqqyD4seQBIAG7TdHujS3bL3A1y5ZCF5Jl 5W2zEkZlgTMUBGu9C1Aa0Ld2ETUG4zbyrOrXbdxgyrb2tjvEgb cQZyRQDWdnb1y0VN07mtlDNy5tKnTvbiOP1pDTEwPpQGb9E1B1 LP3n2Ph2oXY/C nZTtK4YC1cE7jJecSaAu m6c27VtDBKoAY4kCKAk0AoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFA KAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoB QCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAKAUAoBQCgFAf/Z




They also may not share a common ancestor; where are the slanted eyes in the South Asians? That's right. We also need to take under consideration human mobility too. East Asians, of lighter skin, could have invaded SE Asia and islands only few thousands years ago, not enough time to turn darker, the optimum skin colour for this zone.

Regardless, the main trend is readily visible. Darker people live around equator, lighter live away from equator.

vandalorum
15-12-14, 03:25
So white is a mix of red, green and blue? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_color (black, yellow and red = white in human case?)

LeBrok
15-12-14, 03:47
So white is a mix of red, green and blue? : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Additive_color (black, yellow and red = white in human case?) What do you want to say by this? Black people had sex with yellow and then red folks, and this created white people?

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 04:42
i mean regardless of haplogroup or phentotype only an ignorant could deny these hard scientific facts!..

its obvious we ar not adapted to any climate as sad it is!!!
http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Roma/How_race_is_made.htm
http://www.dermaamin.com/site/atlas-of-dermatology/14-o/1025-oculocutaneous-albinism-.html
http://dermaamin.com/site/atlas-of-dermatology/15-p/1239-partialalbinism-.html
http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/black_skin_is_the_genetic_parent.htm

6950

6947

6948

6949
6951


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsOLLBcwxcY

motzart
15-12-14, 04:52
One fool says something stupid and countless fools repeat it, but that doesn't make the statement true. I think it's very unlikely that Aristotle, the source of that notion, ever met a Celt.

The Ancient Greeks and Romans were both very familiar and Greek accounts of the ancient Gauls & Celts are plentiful. Do you believe that the prolific documentation of homosexuality and pedophilia among the Ancient Greeks and Romans was false as well?

Melancon
15-12-14, 05:54
The Ancient Greeks and Romans were both very familiar and Greek accounts of the ancient Gauls & Celts are plentiful. Do you believe that the prolific documentation of homosexuality and pedophilia among the Ancient Greeks and Romans was false as well?That's impossible motzart....

LeBrok
15-12-14, 07:34
i mean regardless of haplogroup or phentotype only an ignorant could deny these hard scientific facts!..



6947

You are so gullible it is not even funny. Meet the real parents of Maria, Sasha Ruseva:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/24/article-2474887-18F5ACD100000578-701_306x423.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476772/DNA-test-confirms-Bulgarian-woman-IS-natural-mother-blonde-haired-Maria.html


Can your albino hypothesis answer these questions? Because if it can't, your hypothesis really sucks.
1. How come in India, or any other country of similar latitude, albino don't make kids with albino, like in Europe?
2. Why does this process only happen in higher latitudes?
3. Also you need to explain what happened to this dark brown/black people who lived in Europe. Where are they now? Did albino people eat all black people in Europe?
4. Shouldn't we have mixed populations of white and brown over the whole globe by now? According to your hypothesis white and black people could live everywhere on Earth.



And what about blond arctic fox with blue eyes?
http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/1371787-bigthumbnail.jpg

Maleth
15-12-14, 08:05
LeBrok is right, Dark skin vs lighter skin (which works simultaneously with eye and hair colour both melanin effected too) is due to the wonderful environmental factors for us to survive as humans. Areas that have been inhabited for thousands of years in regions with LOW UV more and more with MUCH cloud cover have to adapt their bodies and eyesight to those conditions and less Melanine for protection is needed. New high grain diets vs meats in more cooler and overcast areas would accelerate the process (as the sun does help the the process of Vitam D in the body in southern areas). Also there could be an additional input from Neanderthal admixture who were already adapted to low UV for thousands during the glaciation periods (not sure the overcast situation during that period).

Environmental adaptation is very logical for other body requirements, examples fur on mammoths found in colder climates in the northern hemisphere compared to those in lower latitudes.

Just would like to add that (as discussed previously) that clothes can also contribute to the whitening of the skin especially in the Middle east and North Africa were heavy clothes cover (compared say to subsaharan Africa). On a personal note I notice example that well covered Muslim North African women wearing hijabs who I see roaming around on vacation have a trend to have much paler faces compared to their darker skinned male counter parts.

mihaitzateo
15-12-14, 12:30
LeBrok is not right,white skin is caused by a gene that is transmited from parents to children.
For example,Pashtun people from Pakistan,Iran,Afghanistan,100% of them carry the IE light skin alele,while Nordish non-IE people,for example sami,a significant percentage,do not have this mutation.
I am talking about light skin alele SLC24A5.
On average,a Pashtun from Pakistan/Afghanistan is much more light skinned than the average Eskimo,please explain that LeBrok.
So light skin was brought in Europe by Aryans,that is not a myth,is the reality. And light hair and light eyes were brought by Aryans.
These Pashtun people got darker by mixing with dark natives from there,but I guess originally most of them were light haired,light eyed people,as Germanics are.
Celtic people are from a different group,but their origin is still in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan ,in the original Aryan people and not from the savage Anatolian people.
The "Out of Africa " theory is just a pure nonsense,a recent study,a serious study,noticed that Nordish Europeans and Indian herders are sharing a gene that give them lactose tolerance.
Let us not forget that Microsoft,Nokia and other large IT companies got Indian CEOs and are working really well,sorry but they did not got African presidents,why is that?
I am not a racist,but genes are a scientific reality which can not be wiped because this is what some people think is cool.
EDIT:
White fox and polar bear have white fur for camouflage purposes.
So I do not see where is the link between the idea that people left from Africa and became white skinned as they moved towards North and white fox and polar bear color.
As someone said here,native Alaskans and Eskimo are not that white skinned people.
Fino-Ugric people came from near Urals,which is not so North. They are I think most light skinned people,from all world.However,there are Ugric people with only light skin,but not light eyes,Finns,on the other hand are very light eyed.So just pretending that people got light skinned,light eyed and light haired because they moved North can not explain blondism and light eyes at for example Pashtun people.
Who gave examples here of Sami people with darker skin,that is from mixing with Eskimo people and native Siberian people,they took genes for that skin color,is not from their Ugric ancestry.
Most Sami people are having extremly white skin.

vandalorum
15-12-14, 13:43
What do you want to say by this? Black people had sex with yellow and then red folks, and this created white people?

Not necessarily like that. But white skin is not albinism but a result of having all of this possibility? (black, yellow and red?). Maybe other skin color evolved from white?
And for me white people are from places like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_sutJ1CDk
with fog, small amounts of sun, and not high or cold weather/temperature.

mihaitzateo
15-12-14, 15:37
Not necessarily like that. But white skin is not albinism but a result of having all of this possibility? (black, yellow and red?). Maybe other skin color evolved from white?
And for me white people are from places like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG_sutJ1CDk
with fog, small amounts of sun, and not high or cold weather/temperature.

You would be amazed to find out how much sunshine is during summer in Norhern Norway,is an extremly dry area,with huge amounts of sunshine during summer and very low amounts of sun during winter.
And how you can explain that Germanic genetics people living in Iceland have much whiter skin even if they moved there less than 1000 years ago,but Eskimo people who moved there who knows from how many thousands years,have much darker skin?
Russians are also extremly white skinned ,however,native Siberians,are not and native Siberians are more North and stay at less sunlight than from where Russians came.
Also,British people are getting much less sunlight than Scandinavians,however,Scandinavians are more white skinned than Brits.
And,in Norway,the differences in the amount of sunlight are quite considerable as you move from area to area,but white skin is quite constant,as nuance,between Norwegians,why is that?
So,this theory with skin whitening because people moved towards North is having lots of flaws.

vandalorum
15-12-14, 17:09
You would be amazed to find out how much sunshine is during summer in Norhern Norway,is an extremly dry area,with huge amounts of sunshine during summer and very low amounts of sun during winter.
And how you can explain that Germanic genetics people living in Iceland have much whiter skin even if they moved there less than 1000 years ago,but Eskimo people who moved there who knows from how many thousands years,have much darker skin?
Russians are also extremly white skinned ,however,native Siberians,are not and native Siberians are more North and stay at less sunlight than from where Russians came.
Also,British people are getting much less sunlight than Scandinavians,however,Scandinavians are more white skinned than Brits.
And,in Norway,the differences in the amount of sunlight are quite considerable as you move from area to area,but white skin is quite constant,as nuance,between Norwegians,why is that?
So,this theory with skin whitening because people moved towards North is having lots of flaws.

Russians or Ugro-finnic people in Russia? I bet the second one.
We have: Scandinavians - tan light brown at one time (skin is neither pale, nor milky-white, nor rosy or ruddy. It is rather "golden"), White-brown in Poland, France etc. -tan "indian" or "iranic" every summer (brown or red-brown) and white-red people - in british isles. They can't tan, they’re unable to produce melanin. Their ancestors almost never received sunlight exposition due to their necessity of protecting themselves from the cold or because of lack of sunshine (fog etc.)
I personally tan red-white, have some reddish hair, my father, brother, grandmother have pure red hair.

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 17:53
And what about blond arctic fox with blue eyes?
http://cache.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/1371787-bigthumbnail.jpg
good photoshop, actually arctic foxes have brown eyes!!! and by the way their fur gets only white in winter for camouflage their skin is dark as well as the skin of seals and polar bears to collect heat and warm up in the cold environment!!!

another desperate try from you to ignore the undeniable facts white skin is not an adaptation..

real arctic fox
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wcdumonts/11347121504/
shaved polar bear
http://www.tickypages.com/2007_Nov/Zoo_31.jpg
seal
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/04/02/world/02seal_337-395/02seal_337-395-articleLarge-v2.jpg
eskimo in cold climate
http://www.der.org/films/at-the-winter-sea-ice-camp.html

how can you discuss with me when you even deny or lack understanding of simple physics facts?!
http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-Thermosiphoning-Hot-Tub-Heater/
enough sunshine to be collected by brown skin to warm up the body
http://biogeochemistry.blogg.lu.se/files/2013/03/midnigth-sun-Version-2.jpg

so number one, a black object collects heat from sunshine so it stays warm
white objects reflect sunlight and stay cold
this explains why eskimos are darkskinned because dark skin is beneficial both in hot climate(uv protection) and cold climate(heating up body) so again this proves whites are not adapted to any climate we are albinos oca1b who can only survive in low uv climate because we lack the protection from uv which causes folic acid breakdown (degenerative diseases and birth defects) and skin cancer! this is sadly the truth backed up by scientific facts and common sense..

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 18:18
so here is your "perfectly adapted to cold" fallacy

6954

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=21926

The Mutated link between Caucasians and Albinism.
In humans, only four genes are isolated and have a high affinity for albinism.

The 4 genes are: TYR, OCA2, TYRP1, SLC45A2. OCA is the acronym for Oculocutaneous albinism (hair, skin, and eyes are affected resulting in loss of pigment to the hair and skin and decreased visual acuity due to photo phobia which comes with green or blue eyes). SOURCE:HTTP://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/lightsensitive.htm It must be conveyed to the reader that nothing is ever proven 100%, only the outcome/ results are interpreted within our scope of realism. I can now get into the biochemistry and the bond between Caucasians and albinism. All people (black, white, or asian) have SLC24A5 genes. The difference between us is found at the alleles of the SLC24A5 gene. The original father (Negros even today) exhibits an alanine allele (Ala111 allele) on the gene SLC24A5 to produce natural pigmented skin. Recently, however, at an estimate of 6,000 - 12,000 years ago, the alanine allele underwent the mutations for a Therine affinity. SOURCE:HTTP://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4784/eurospaleonlyrecentlypu0.jpg.
The A1a111 alleles mutated to Thr111 alleles for whites. Approximately 9% of all humans on earth have an affinity for this mutation (the entire white race to be exact). The alanine allele, it must be stated, is, however, the common bond between the asian and negro populations (this is termed by scientists as Evolutionary Conservation). Whites, as ive stated, do not have alanine alleles-- Europeans, typically have Therine alleles.
Thr111, an amino acid has mRNA codons of ACU, ACA, ACC, and ACG; instead of GCU, GCC, GCA, or GCG as is the case for alanine. The function of the Thr111 is to produce white skin, blue or green eyes (photo phobia exhibited in both groups), and light hair. Only 2 people on the earth exhibit the Therine characteristics/phenotypes: albinos and Caucasians. It must also be stated that the main deficiency in both groups is the inability to produce tyrosinase (TYR), TYRP1, and SLC45A2... Those are the key enzyme and genes, respectively, in melanin metabolism. All life forms with the exception of white people have melanin. Even plants have melanin. Catechol oxidase (a plant's equivalent to tyronsinase) is one of the chief enzymes which makes melanin for plant life. Melanin (TYR) that is "exhibited" in whites and albinos will have a function that is negligible in both groups when exposed to direct sunlight.
(conclusion) The OCA2 form of albinism is very similar to Caucasian phenotypes. and is the most common for negroes. Negroes will typically have blond hair and blue, gray or hazel eyes.
1 in every 15,000 black persons have OCA2 genes.
SOURCE:HTTP://www.mayoclinic.com/health/albinism/DS00941/DSECTION=causes

and to explain to you your question how such large groups of albinos came to be, simple, when we caucasian albinos isolated ourselves on empty islands in the north and we made children exclusively betweeen ourselves there was only more albino offspring so we multiplied in numbers while in other countries albinos mated with majority of melanated people and so their albinism was neutralised by normal melanin genes..

do not think it is a coincidence nowadays intermariage between brown skinned and whites is so promoted in the media!..

mihaitzateo
15-12-14, 19:06
@ Vigilantexplorer:
African people do not have SLC24A5.South Indians,do not have it in high percentage.
I think you miss the difference between different populations in India,first there is a strong divide between North Indians who are speaking IE languages and South Indians,who are not speaking an IE language.
And between North Indians are different populations,they are not same group,neither they present same percentage of blue and green eyes.
I already presented the case with Pashtun people.
Pashtun people are found in Pakistan,Afghanistan and are what we call "white people".Lots of them have blue or green eyes.
So your theory with albinism is just non-sense,albinism means your hair is white,not blonde.But most Pashtun people with light eyes have dark hair,so where is the albinism you are talking about?
Since albinism with dark hair is not possible.
Eskimo are darker because this is how their race is,not because they adapted to the lack of sunshine.
Already wrote,during summer,there is a lot of sunshine where Eskimo are living.
When outside is pitch black it does not really matters what color your skin has,neither when the sun shines 2-3 hours per day :D .
Eskimo are taking vitamin D from the food they are eating,go read and be informed and stop telling absurdities.
Is same with vitamin D at Norse Germanics,they are eating lots of fish,from where they take their vitamin D.
The falsity of "out of Africa" theory is proved very easy by the lack of similiraty between people from Northern Hemisphere and those from Southern Hemisphere,located at same latitude.
Natives from South America are not same with natives from North America,while South Africans people,which are living in South Africa,are still very dark and those from South America,living are same latitude,have a moderate brown skin.
Why is that again?
What about the fact that in North America skin color was gave by the tribe from which the natives were and not by the latitude neither by statistics,as it should be if albinism would be the reason for having people white skinned.
In fact there is known that natives from North America were having a reddish nuance at their skin this is why they were called "red skins".
How come these people did not had any albinism,neither their skin got white,cause they were at such north latitudes?

EDIT:
Just for the lol mode,half of Japan is under 35 degrees North Latitude.
So is at about same latitude as South Part of South Africa.
And how come Japanesse are very white skinned while those people from the South of South Africa are so dark skinned?
If I would take the absurdities of vigilantexplorer,all Japanesse people sufer from Albinism.
:D
Or ,we just accept that the race of Jappanese people is having the skin that white and the race of South African people is having the skin so black and this does not have anything to do with how closed to Ecuator they are,neither that is something caused by the lack or presence of albinism.

Maleth
15-12-14, 19:20
so here is your "perfectly adapted to cold" fallacy.

There is a direct correlation between the geographic distribution of UV radiation (UVR) and the distribution of indigenous skin pigmentation around the world. Areas that receive higher amounts of UVR, generally located closer to the equator, tend to have darker-skinned populations. Areas that are far from the tropics and closer to the poles have lower concentration of UVR, which is reflected in lighter-skinned populations.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#cite_note-webb06-3) Researchers suggest that human populations over the past 50,000 years have changed from dark-skinned to light-skinned and vice versa as they migrated to different UV zones,[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#cite_note-Jablonski2011AN-4) and that such major changes in pigmentation may have happened in as little as 100 generations (~2,500 years) through selective sweeps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_sweep).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#cite_note-Jablonski2011AN-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#cite_note-Natgeo-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color#cite_note-LivCol-6) Natural skin color can also darken as a result of tanning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_tanning) due to exposure to sunlight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_skin_color

Maleth
15-12-14, 19:31
On average,a Pashtun from Pakistan/Afghanistan is much more light skinned than the average Eskimo

I am not under the impression that Eskimos can be considered dark. Do not forget the fact that one can easily get a sun tan when going skiing (meaning were there is a cover of snow). Thats because of solar reflection. This does not happen in areas that are well know to have grass and tree canopy as foliage is a good UV absorbed. Most areas in Europe are fertile ground for thick forest and it was such before the population explosion which caused so much deforestation.

vandalorum
15-12-14, 19:38
Sorry but blue eyes are in one group with gray, green is a cousin of brown.

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 20:15
no animal ever(be it human or any other animal) adapts to cold low uv with blue eyes(albinism) and tyrosinase defect(blondism/gingerism and pale skin)!!! alla rctic animals have brown melanated skin underneath the fur and brown or black eyes!!! so no, we white folks are not adapted to low uv

how many times must i repeat myself..

http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-Thermosiphoning-Hot-Tub-Heater/
enough sunshine to be collected by brown skin to warm up the body
http://biogeochemistry.blogg.lu.se/files/2013/03/midnigth-sun-Version-2.jpg

so number one, a black object collects heat from sunshine so it stays warm
white objects reflect sunlight and stay cold
this explains why eskimos are darkskinned because dark skin is beneficial both in hot climate(uv protection) and cold climate(heating up body) so again this proves whites are not adapted to any climate we are albinos oca1b who can only survive in low uv climate because we lack the protection from uv which causes folic acid breakdown (degenerative diseases and birth defects) and skin cancer! and we lack also melanin to warm up the body by absorbing sunlight in cold climate areas.. this is sadly the truth backed up by scientific facts and common sense..

here i found a link which covers this in detail: http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/black_skin_is_the_genetic_parent.htm

try to debunk this bulletproof fact!

Maleth
15-12-14, 20:54
so number one, a black object collects heat from sunshine so it stays warm
white objects reflect sunlight and stay cold
this explains why eskimos are darkskinned because dark skin is beneficial both in hot climate(uv protection) and cold climate(heating up body) so again this proves whites are not adapted to any climate.

Melanin is not about absorbing heat from sunshine but to BLOCK uv rays. Like when you stay in the sun and go dark? you know how it happens?


try to debunk this bulletproof fact!

If all this makes you feel good then stick to it. Good luck

motzart
15-12-14, 21:11
no animal ever(be it human or any other animal) adapts to cold low uv with blue eyes(albinism) and tyrosinase defect(blondism/gingerism and pale skin)!!! alla rctic animals have brown melanated skin underneath the fur and brown or black eyes!!! so no, we white folks are not adapted to low uv

how many times must i repeat myself..

http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-Thermosiphoning-Hot-Tub-Heater/
enough sunshine to be collected by brown skin to warm up the body
http://biogeochemistry.blogg.lu.se/files/2013/03/midnigth-sun-Version-2.jpg

so number one, a black object collects heat from sunshine so it stays warm
white objects reflect sunlight and stay cold
this explains why eskimos are darkskinned because dark skin is beneficial both in hot climate(uv protection) and cold climate(heating up body) so again this proves whites are not adapted to any climate we are albinos oca1b who can only survive in low uv climate because we lack the protection from uv which causes folic acid breakdown (degenerative diseases and birth defects) and skin cancer! and we lack also melanin to warm up the body by absorbing sunlight in cold climate areas.. this is sadly the truth backed up by scientific facts and common sense..

here i found a link which covers this in detail: http://www.stewartsynopsis.com/black_skin_is_the_genetic_parent.htm

try to debunk this bulletproof fact!

Blue eyes are an adaptation to low light, less pigment allows the iris to expand larger and take in more light in low light situations. Animals that use their eyes to hunt at night have light eyes, for example tigers and all cats. This is likely why WHGs all had light eyes.

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 22:43
Blue eyes are an adaptation to low light, less pigment allows the iris to expand larger and take in more light in low light situations. Animals that use their eyes to hunt at night have light eyes, for example tigers and all cats. This is likely why WHGs all had light eyes.
blue eyes are tyrosinase defect not an adaptation(100%)
(no nocturnal animal has blue eyes either!!!)

load of nonsense and wishfull thinking.. did you ever read the arguments in the links i posted?!?

the carnivorous cats have completely different eye anatomy from humans they have tapetum lucidum!!! again you failed to disprove the fact blondism and blue eyes are albinsims traits..

brown eyes actually attract more light than light eyes because light eyes reflect it but melanin brown eyes attract it so you can see even better in the dark! darker object attract light lighter repel/reflect it this is why you get hot with a black t shirt in summer..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pritheworld/1418508348/
nocturnal primate
https://tribobot.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/the-nocturnal-tarsier-a-rainforest-michael-nichols.jpg?w=645&h=433
nocturnal slender loris
http://www.walkthroughindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/slender-loris-india.jpg
tiger
http://blackice-wolf.deviantart.com/art/Tigers-eyes-173073396
inuit eyes
http://i.imgur.com/1p8pdDl.jpg
polar bear eyes
http://churchillpolarbears.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/churchill-5-013.jpg
shaved polar bear
http://www.tickypages.com/2007_Nov/Zoo_31.jpg

truth is only one..

Dagne
15-12-14, 23:32
Blue eyes are an adaptation to low light, less pigment allows the iris to expand larger and take in more light in low light situations. Animals that use their eyes to hunt at night have light eyes, for example tigers and all cats. This is likely why WHGs all had light eyes.

It is true, I agree! If one has ligh blue eyes they are more sensitive to light (I know from my own experience) and albino people have to wear sun glasses because their eyes are extremely sensitive to sun.

WHGs lived in forests where there was less light. And the highest percentage of light eyed individuals is in the territories rich in WHG ancestry.

vigilantexplorer
16-12-14, 01:42
It is true, I agree! If one has ligh blue eyes they are more sensitive to light (I know from my own experience) and albino people have to wear sun glasses because their eyes are extremely sensitive to sun.

WHGs lived in forests where there was less light. And the highest percentage of light eyed individuals is in the territories rich in WHG ancestry.
no mate, all creatures living in northern dense forests be it human or animal have brown eyes..

from nocturnal northern european bats, to northern european brown bears! every animal even such nocturnal creatures as bats need sunlight to survive and from your theory the nocturnal animals must have all depigmented bodies which is not true they all have black or brown eyes and dark melanated skin because it better absorbs light even in low uv areas! no animal ever in the northern forests has blue eyes! only albino humans and animals..


It is true, I agree! If one has ligh blue eyes they are more sensitive to light (I know from my own experience) and albino people have to wear sun glasses because their eyes are extremely sensitive to sun.
exatly! this only confirms what i try to explain here..

those who tell truth are not always popular but i can live with this one..

http://tacugama.com/pinkie.html

Aberdeen
16-12-14, 02:26
blue eyes are tyrosinase defect not an adaptation(100%)
(no nocturnal animal has blue eyes either!!!)

load of nonsense and wishfull thinking.. did you ever read the arguments in the links i posted?!?

the carnivorous cats have completely different eye anatomy from humans they have tapetum lucidum!!! again you failed to disprove the fact blondism and blue eyes are albinsims traits..

brown eyes actually attract more light than light eyes because light eyes reflect it but melanin brown eyes attract it so you can see even better in the dark! darker object attract light lighter repel/reflect it this is why you get hot with a black t shirt in summer..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pritheworld/1418508348/
nocturnal primate
https://tribobot.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/the-nocturnal-tarsier-a-rainforest-michael-nichols.jpg?w=645&h=433
nocturnal slender loris
http://www.walkthroughindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/slender-loris-india.jpg
tiger
http://blackice-wolf.deviantart.com/art/Tigers-eyes-173073396
inuit eyes
http://i.imgur.com/1p8pdDl.jpg
polar bear eyes
http://churchillpolarbears.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/churchill-5-013.jpg
shaved polar bear
http://www.tickypages.com/2007_Nov/Zoo_31.jpg

truth is only one..

Constantly repeating unscientific nonsense does not make it true. Neither blue eyes nor blond hair have anything to do with albinism, and you will not find a single scientist who believes such tripe.

vandalorum
16-12-14, 02:39
Sorry but blue eyes are in one group with gray, green is a cousin of brown.

6956

source: http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316 (http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316)

LeBrok
16-12-14, 02:46
brown eyes actually attract more light than light eyes because light eyes reflect it but melanin brown eyes attract it so you can see even better in the dark! darker object attract light lighter repel/reflect it this is why you get hot with a black t shirt in summer..
So Subsaharan Africans are black because they need to warm up on this cold continent, lol. And Europeans are white because they feel too hot in Europe. What a piece of crap!

You don't have slightest idea why melanin is in the skin. You clanged to cold and hot to explain skin colour? There is no connection of skin colour to temperature. It is only connected to UV radiation.

Listen carefully. Melanin protects skin against damage from UV, therefore from the cancer. Wherever the sun is the strongest people are black or brown, because they need melanin to protect them from too much UV, like in Africa or India.
UV also is beneficial and produces vitamin D3 in our skin. We need some of UV but not too much. People in higher latitudes needed to have lighter skin because a lot of melanin, like in black people, blocks to much of UV and they can't produce enough D3. Less melanin in the skin equals lighter skin colour. It is simple and logical, proven many times, and it is in tune with all the research done for last 50 years.
It is just a basic science and there is much more to be explained, but I stop here. I have justified doubts that it is too much knowledge for you already. I won't waste my time further.

I advise you to stop posting your fantasy. Enough is enough.

Aberdeen
16-12-14, 02:49
6956

source: http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316 (http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316)

Exactly - a scientific explanation of why different people have brown, green or blue eyes, and it has nothing to do with albinism.

motzart
16-12-14, 03:38
It is true, I agree! If one has ligh blue eyes they are more sensitive to light (I know from my own experience) and albino people have to wear sun glasses because their eyes are extremely sensitive to sun.

WHGs lived in forests where there was less light. And the highest percentage of light eyed individuals is in the territories rich in WHG ancestry.

Yes anyone who has been to an optometrist has had the drops put in their eyes that dilate your pupils making them more sensitive to sunlight. Everyone has blue eyes however most of us have a layer of brown pigment covering the blue layer, there is a new procedure that uses uv rays to disintegrate the brown pigment changing your eye color to blue.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/02/article-2056646-0EA39DBE00000578-433_634x322.jpg

http://www.stromamedical.com/



If you look at the GED match Eye colors of the European Hunter Gatherers you can see that they don't actually have blue eyes, they all share a light yellow coloration. To me this shows that there was selection underway for people who had better vision hunting in low light, Europe is already an area with low light but the dense forests would have made things even darker. Combine those adaptations with EEF depigmentation genes and you get blue IMO.

ANE's on the other hand didn't need good vision to see a Mammoth (lol), likewise EEFs food was stationary and didn't require great vision.

LeBrok
16-12-14, 04:50
Yes anyone who has been to an optometrist has had the drops put in their eyes that dilate your pupils making them more sensitive to sunlight. Everyone has blue eyes however most of us have a layer of brown pigment covering the blue layer, there is a new procedure that uses uv rays to disintegrate the brown pigment changing your eye color to blue.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/02/article-2056646-0EA39DBE00000578-433_634x322.jpg

http://www.stromamedical.com/



If you look at the GED match Eye colors of the European Hunter Gatherers you can see that they don't actually have blue eyes, they all share a light yellow coloration. To me this shows that there was selection underway for people who had better vision hunting in low light, Europe is already an area with low light but the dense forests would have made things even darker. Combine those adaptations with EEF depigmentation genes and you get blue IMO.

ANE's on the other hand didn't need good vision to see a Mammoth (lol), likewise EEFs food was stationary and didn't require great vision.

In theory it makes sense. Did someone do a research confirming that blue eyes are better in dim light or at night?

Alan
16-12-14, 05:10
Not true. Why are their Indian/Pakistani (South Asian) neighbors a lot more dark-skinned than the East Asian Mongoloids? China is about as far away to the equator as Central America or Mexico.

They also may not share a common ancestor; where are the slanted eyes in the South Asians?

Thats absolutely not true. The East Asians I have seen vary from Pakistani, Saudi Skin, Indian skin color to South Europeans. Thais as white as the whitest Europeans?
Does this Thai look like as white as the whitest Europeans?
6958

Chinese, Japanese, Koreans vary from Pakistani, Afghani, Saudi to northern West Asian/South European skin color. Thais have a variation of l South Indians to Pakistani skin color. Those maps are obviously false when it comes to East Asian skin coloring. I doubt they even had samples.

Chinese
https://www.helpmeoutdoc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chinese-man-340x206.jpg

Pakistani
6959

Aberdeen
16-12-14, 05:16
In theory it makes sense. Did someone did a research confirming that blue eyes are better in dim light or at night?

That was a popular theory but it doesn't seem to be the case.

http://phys.org/news120933651.html

I believe the mutation that causes blue eyes was a chance mutation that flourished because blue eyes are attractive. My blue eyes had a hypnotic effect on many women when I was young, although I was also slender and handsome then - my blue eyes don't seem to be as effective now.

LeBrok
16-12-14, 05:31
Chinese, Japanese, Koreans vary from Pakistani, Afghani, Saudi to northern West Asian/South European skin color. Thais have a variation of l South Indians to Pakistani skin color. Those maps are obviously false when it comes to East Asian skin coloring. I doubt they even had samples.

Chinese


Pakistani

Ture, it depends on ethnic groups, or their relation with old ethnic groups. For example "aboriginal" kids should be the darker. The Indo-Iranains should be the lighter ones.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7100/6900313884_7569afde82_z.jpg

Of course it is just speculation over this picture The first kid might be as well a child of mixed marriage with Europeans, and the darker kids emigrants from Bangladesh.


This picture is supposedly from flood relief 2 years ago. We can see kids varying from olive to darker brown. We should give them few shades lighter tones as obviously they carry some tan.
http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/pakistan_06_10/p36_19217145.jpg

motzart
16-12-14, 06:36
That was a popular theory but it doesn't seem to be the case.

http://phys.org/news120933651.html

I believe the mutation that causes blue eyes was a chance mutation that flourished because blue eyes are attractive. My blue eyes had a hypnotic effect on many women when I was young, although I was also slender and handsome then - my blue eyes don't seem to be as effective now.

The link you posted has nothing to do with eye color / night vision and is just some sensationalist junk article that has long been proven to be trash.

Also the bias in your opinion is ... intentional comedy?

http://www.dukemedicine.org/blog/myth-or-fact-people-light-eyes-are-more-sensitive-sunlight

LeBrok
16-12-14, 06:49
The link you posted has nothing to do with eye color / night vision and is just some sensationalist junk article that has long been proven to be trash.

Also the bias in your opinion is ... intentional comedy?

I looked around quickly and couldn't find any valid information about vision in relation to eye colour. All I found is that blue eyes might be more sensitive, meaning delicate, to strong light.

The light enters an eye through the pupil, the dark center of the eye. The light doesn't enter through iris, so colour of iris shouldn't matter regarding vision sensitivity or colours.

Alan
16-12-14, 07:11
This picture is supposedly from flood relief 2 years ago. We can see kids varying from olive to darker brown. We should give them few shades lighter tones as obviously they carry some tan.


Indeed Pakistanis have more tan because South Asia is more dry and hot than East Asia. Yet on average even with tan Pakistani skin color is not out of the Chinese range. Light Skinned Pakistanis can look as light as your lighter skinned Chinese while more tanned Pakistanis are not much darker than dark skinned Chinese. While there are South Asians who can be far lighter than anything possible with East Asians.

There is no real difference in skin color between Central/South Chinese and Pakistanis.

Aberdeen
16-12-14, 09:42
The link you posted has nothing to do with eye color / night vision and is just some sensationalist junk article that has long been proven to be trash.

Also the bias in your opinion is ... intentional comedy?

http://www.dukemedicine.org/blog/myth-or-fact-people-light-eyes-are-more-sensitive-sunlight

I don't know what put you in such a nasty mood but in fact a respected news website that specializes in news about science, research and technology is much more trustworthy than a medicine for profit organization. And no - the article is not sensationalist junk and its statement that blue eyes have no adaptive value has not been disproven - you won't find any reputable scientific organization that disagrees with the idea. You may find some "medicine for profit" group that wants to make money from an unscientific idea, but that's not the same thing.

joeyc
16-12-14, 12:48
Is this a joke? East Asians like the Chinese are a lot lighter in skintone than any Pakistani. Kalash on average look no different from Punjabis and Pashtuns.

mihaitzateo
16-12-14, 12:50
It is true, I agree! If one has ligh blue eyes they are more sensitive to light (I know from my own experience) and albino people have to wear sun glasses because their eyes are extremely sensitive to sun.

WHGs lived in forests where there was less light. And the highest percentage of light eyed individuals is in the territories rich in WHG ancestry.

Not really.
I have brown/light brown eyes (no idea what nuance exactly) and my eyes are very sensitive to sun.
I know enough Romanians blue eyed and most do not have their eyes at all sensitive to sun.I only know 2 Romanians with eyes sensitivity to sun,besides me,one is green eyed,another blue eyed,so eyes color do not matter.
Most romanians are not having their eyes sensitive to sun.
I am not albino either,my hair is medium brown,or dark brown.

mihaitzateo
16-12-14, 12:55
Coming back to the thread,as already written here,if 85% of Irish males descend from Anatolian farmers than how come lactose intolerance is very low,at Irish people,which clearly shows Irish people have a diet based on milk?
No idea how many of Irish people can eat milk without any problem,but is at least 85%,numbers are saying,95%,others,90%,lowest I have seen is 85%.
This means these males moved to Ireland and switched from farming to raising sheep and cows,because Ireland is not a good place to practice agriculture.
Question is,what is the route on which they came in Ireland from Anatolia?
Because there is a lot of good land for agriculture on the way from Anatolia to Ireland so why they did not stoped on the way,but they came till Ireland?
And Ireland,considering the climate there,is excelent for raising cows,so I think most of Irish people are descending from herders,not from farmers.

vandalorum
16-12-14, 14:06
Coming back to the thread,as already written here,if 85% of Irish males descend from Anatolian farmers than how come lactose intolerance is very low,at Irish people,which clearly shows Irish people have a diet based on milk?
No idea how many of Irish people can eat milk without any problem,but is at least 85%,numbers are saying,95%,others,90%,lowest I have seen is 85%.
This means these males moved to Ireland and switched from farming to raising sheep and cows,because Ireland is not a good place to practice agriculture.
Question is,what is the route on which they came in Ireland from Anatolia?
Because there is a lot of good land for agriculture on the way from Anatolia to Ireland so why they did not stoped on the way,but they came till Ireland?
And Ireland,considering the climate there,is excelent for raising cows,so I think most of Irish people are descending from herders,not from farmers.

Maybe because climate in Anatolia was quite like in Ireland now?

Aberdeen
16-12-14, 16:47
Coming back to the thread,as already written here,if 85% of Irish males descend from Anatolian farmers than how come lactose intolerance is very low,at Irish people,which clearly shows Irish people have a diet based on milk?
No idea how many of Irish people can eat milk without any problem,but is at least 85%,numbers are saying,95%,others,90%,lowest I have seen is 85%.
This means these males moved to Ireland and switched from farming to raising sheep and cows,because Ireland is not a good place to practice agriculture.
Question is,what is the route on which they came in Ireland from Anatolia?
Because there is a lot of good land for agriculture on the way from Anatolia to Ireland so why they did not stoped on the way,but they came till Ireland?
And Ireland,considering the climate there,is excelent for raising cows,so I think most of Irish people are descending from herders,not from farmers.

Have you ever been to Ireland? It's a green and pleasant land that's good for farming, including but not limited to raising livestock. Many Irish farmers, even today, practice mixed farming, with crops and livestock. People there eat a lot of grain, potatoes and vegetables, and a lot of dairy as well as lamb, beef and seafood. Having lactase persistence is useful but would only be necessary in famine conditions, which the Irish often experienced because of oppression by the English and not because of climate and soil conditions. The Irish potato famine was a disaster because the English landlords kept exporting meat and grain after the potato crop failed.

Angela
16-12-14, 18:53
I did a quick scan through google scholar and some science publications, and it seems to me that, unlike with skin pigmentation, the science with regard to selective pressures on eye color is still in its infancy. It certainly isn't totally clear that it has to do with light eyes being more adaptive in low sun areas, although there are certainly some studies which suggest that and continuing research may bring some light to bear on the issue. :) (I don't know why, btw, a Duke University study would be assumed to be invalid.)

See this study for some background on iris pigmentation. It seems just from the description of the various parts of the iris and their function that research into the impact of iris color in reflecting some of the light, and differences in contraction time might be fruitful areas of research, but that's a layperson's view so perhaps I'm reading it incorrectly.

http://bashaar.org.il/files/4150.pdf

They mentioned several factors that were new to me, like the possible effect of eye color on reaction time and certain sports. They also cited other literature to the effect that the ability to overcome seasonal affective disorder (SAD), a major depressive disorder, is linked to lighter eye color.

As for the influence of sexual selection, that has always seemed problematic to me because it is so subject to changes in culture. Obviously, if a group rises to power which carries a certain phenotype, that phenotype might and probably will become preferred and there will be sexual selection for it.

However, I don't know how sound it is to transfer these types of judgements as to "attractiveness" 15,000 years into the past to other very foreign cultures. Certainly, even in more modern times, children born with blue eyes in remote African tribes were sometimes killed at birth for being "alien". (That's of course before the total impact of colonialism, which introduced the idea that fair pigmentation is associated with privilege.)

Among groups which normally are lighter eyed and haired at birth and sometimes into youth, I could see, however, where males might be more attracted to females who carry those traits for longer because it might have associations with infantilism and therefore malleability.

Sile
16-12-14, 19:07
6956

source: http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316 (http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask316)

is eye colour heritary?

my family example

my father pale green eyes - mother hazel eyes
me - mid green eyes
sister- mid brown eyes

my wife - pale blue eyes............her father grey eyes ............her mother hazel eyes...............her brother grey eyes
all my sons - mid blue eyes

I see some correspondence with "immediate family" genetics but in both cases hazel missed out ..................the main colours are blue or brown eyes

vigilantexplorer
16-12-14, 20:23
I looked around quickly and couldn't find any valid information about vision in relation to eye colour. All I found is that blue eyes might be more sensitive, meaning delicate, to strong light.

The light enters an eye through the pupil, the dark center of the eye. The light doesn't enter through iris, so colour of iris shouldn't matter regarding vision sensitivity or colours.
this is as unscientific as the claim blue eyes emerged because of attracitivity..

my mother has blue eyes and has big problems seeing in the dark! you know what, you can go around it making various theories but only fact is blue eyes and green eyes both come from oca2 this is even verified by mainstream science and accepted by most scientists and opticians. a friend of mine has blue eyes and cannot see red and green colours! in my work most of the customers i see with deaf aids are blue eyed. melanin covers everything from eyes to eardrums to brain(neuromelanin) and a lack of it leads to serious problems: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html
by the way why do you guys think a blue eyed person needs optical glasses and sunglasses?! because the sunglasses are a substitute for the lack of melanin cover on the eyes!!! they are an artifiacial sunscreen for blue eyes!

give me one example where a blue eyed person sees better in the dark, we can meet up and make an experiment with blue eyed and brown eyed person in a dark forest lets see who will be better at night vision finding hidden objects.. even bats and tarsiers who are nocturnal creatures have brown eyes.
http://biologypop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tarsierfood.jpg

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/186125397069988749/
http://www.sweetgeodes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Putins-glasses.jpg
http://buzzcarl.com/images/IMG_9902.jpg

do you think this is for fashion and a coincidence?

vigilantexplorer
16-12-14, 20:24
Yes anyone who has been to an optometrist has had the drops put in their eyes that dilate your pupils making them more sensitive to sunlight. Everyone has blue eyes however most of us have a layer of brown pigment covering the blue layer, there is a new procedure that uses uv rays to disintegrate the brown pigment changing your eye color to blue.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/11/02/article-2056646-0EA39DBE00000578-433_634x322.jpg

http://www.stromamedical.com/



If you look at the GED match Eye colors of the European Hunter Gatherers you can see that they don't actually have blue eyes, they all share a light yellow coloration. To me this shows that there was selection underway for people who had better vision hunting in low light, Europe is already an area with low light but the dense forests would have made things even darker. Combine those adaptations with EEF depigmentation genes and you get blue IMO.

ANE's on the other hand didn't need good vision to see a Mammoth (lol), likewise EEFs food was stationary and didn't require great vision.
are you sane? i mean you advertise to people they should albinize themselves by removal of melanin from their eyes?! whats the next step? peroxidizing their hair and bleaching cream? oh my god this is crazy..

as it would not be sad enough how much health problems low melanated individials have already, now whe should make a fashion trend out of it... :useless:

in my family all light eyed individuals have vision problems need glasses and my granparents both had several surgeries this is not funny at all! technically no one i know with brown eyes has problems with eyes only a handfull with very light brown eyes who inherited weak vision from their parents
those blue eyed people i know without glasses wear mostly contact lenses..

vandalorum
17-12-14, 00:36
One is for sure. Light eyes are blue and grey. Blue with gray or green or green with gray is already mixed colour. My eyes colour is grey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color#Eye_color_chart_.28Martin_Scale.29

LeBrok
17-12-14, 08:46
this is as unscientific as the claim blue eyes emerged because of attracitivity..

my mother has blue eyes and has big problems seeing in the dark! you know what, you can go around it making various theories but only fact is blue eyes and green eyes both come from oca2 this is even verified by mainstream science and accepted by most scientists and opticians. a friend of mine has blue eyes and cannot see red and green colours! in my work most of the customers i see with deaf aids are blue eyed. melanin covers everything from eyes to eardrums to brain(neuromelanin) and a lack of it leads to serious problems: http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/autism-and-redheads-the-canaries-in-the-epidemic-part-1.html
by the way why do you guys think a blue eyed person needs optical glasses and sunglasses?! because the sunglasses are a substitute for the lack of melanin cover on the eyes!!! they are an artifiacial sunscreen for blue eyes! It must be a curse on your family, sorry to hear that. I know many blue eye people and they are not crazy about sunglasses. Your case might be related to additional "bad" mutation.


give me one example where a blue eyed person sees better in the dark, we can meet up and make an experiment with blue eyed and brown eyed person in a dark forest lets see who will be better at night vision finding hidden objects.. even bats and tarsiers who are nocturnal creatures have brown eyes.

do you think this is for fashion and a coincidence?
Reading with comprehension problem again? I never claimed that blue eye people can see better in the dark.

Greying Wanderer
17-12-14, 11:57
Have you ever been to Ireland? It's a green and pleasant land that's good for farming, including but not limited to raising livestock. Many Irish farmers, even today, practice mixed farming, with crops and livestock. People there eat a lot of grain, potatoes and vegetables, and a lot of dairy as well as lamb, beef and seafood. Having lactase persistence is useful but would only be necessary in famine conditions, which the Irish often experienced because of oppression by the English and not because of climate and soil conditions. The Irish potato famine was a disaster because the English landlords kept exporting meat and grain after the potato crop failed.


"Having lactase persistence is useful but would only be necessary in famine conditions"

Or before standard neolithic crops had been adapted for the conditions in NW Europe.

edit: the "green" bit is partly to do with Atlantic rainfall - which imo is the likely cause of the early neolithic crop problem all along the Atlantic coast

edit2: "The Irish potato famine" Didn't the Irish population treble after the introduction of potatoes? Wouldn't that suggest standard crops were a problem (relatively speaking) before hand.

Greying Wanderer
17-12-14, 12:34
I looked around quickly and couldn't find any valid information about vision in relation to eye colour. All I found is that blue eyes might be more sensitive, meaning delicate, to strong light.

The light enters an eye through the pupil, the dark center of the eye. The light doesn't enter through iris, so colour of iris shouldn't matter regarding vision sensitivity or colours.


Sunlight is apparently important in keeping eyes healthy - especially in children. Maybe it is something to do with that?

http://seattletimes.com/html/health/2018653577_chinavision11.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17942181

Greying Wanderer
17-12-14, 12:40
Coming back to the thread,as already written here,if 85% of Irish males descend from Anatolian farmers than how come lactose intolerance is very low,at Irish people,which clearly shows Irish people have a diet based on milk?
No idea how many of Irish people can eat milk without any problem,but is at least 85%,numbers are saying,95%,others,90%,lowest I have seen is 85%.
This means these males moved to Ireland and switched from farming to raising sheep and cows,because Ireland is not a good place to practice agriculture.
Question is,what is the route on which they came in Ireland from Anatolia?
Because there is a lot of good land for agriculture on the way from Anatolia to Ireland so why they did not stoped on the way,but they came till Ireland?
And Ireland,considering the climate there,is excelent for raising cows,so I think most of Irish people are descending from herders,not from farmers.

"what is the route on which they came in Ireland"

Quite. If you go back far enough everyone came from protozoa but it's the route in between that is interesting and for the reasons you describe that route was very unlikely to be directly from Anatolia.

Greying Wanderer
17-12-14, 13:03
Skin color

If humans need vitamin D and you can get vitamin D through the skin *or* through diet then a population would only need to develop lighter skin if *both* conditions applied i.e. low UV region *and* not enough vitamin D in their diet.


The best source of dietary vitamin D is fish.

So people living in northern latitudes *away from the coast* might have had to develop lighter skin (nb lighter not necessarily light).

Early farmers would have had the same problem.

If different skin lightening genes developed among different populations and if people from those populations later mixed then they might get both sets i.e. one population might just have the farmer ones while another people has both the farmer ones and the interior HG ones.

Aberdeen
17-12-14, 19:39
"Having lactase persistence is useful but would only be necessary in famine conditions"

Or before standard neolithic crops had been adapted for the conditions in NW Europe.

edit: the "green" bit is partly to do with Atlantic rainfall - which imo is the likely cause of the early neolithic crop problem all along the Atlantic coast

edit2: "The Irish potato famine" Didn't the Irish population treble after the introduction of potatoes? Wouldn't that suggest standard crops were a problem (relatively speaking) before hand.

It's possible that the earliest kind of wheat may have been affected by moisture problems, but the archeological evidence nevertheless suggests that it was a common crop that helped boost the population during the Neolithic. And barley, peas and flax would have flourished. Widespread lactase persistence seems to have developed later.

As for potatoes, they seem to have been introduced to western Ireland by Spanish cod fishermen in the late 1500s, and were a boon to the Irish population, who had been driven off most of the land by English colonists. However, there were massive potato crop failures from 1845 to 1851, and millions of Irish starved to death or were forced to immigrate while English landlords continued to export meat and grain. If you want to learn something about Irish history, pick an author who isn't English.

Aberdeen
17-12-14, 19:43
"what is the route on which they came in Ireland"

Quite. If you go back far enough everyone came from protozoa but it's the route in between that is interesting and for the reasons you describe that route was very unlikely to be directly from Anatolia.

Nobody is saying that Anatolians got into boats and sailed directly to Ireland. But there's plenty of evidence that the ancestors of early European farmers moved through Anatolia and the Balkans on their way to western Europe, and I believe some also migrated along the Mediterranean and Atlantic over the course of many generations.

Angela
17-12-14, 19:49
^^I was just about to add that the title of this thread sounds like a news article that came out after one of the seminal genetics papers on this topic. It's not helpful, in my opinion, to spend an inordinate amount of time debating a journalist's uninformed and less than artfully expressed understanding of the movement of people from the Near East into Europe, a movement that brought a total transformation of subsistence strategies and culture, along with a massive infusion of genes.

vigilantexplorer
17-12-14, 21:29
Skin color

If humans need vitamin D and you can get vitamin D through the skin *or* through diet then a population would only need to develop lighter skin if *both* conditions applied i.e. low UV region *and* not enough vitamin D in their diet.


The best source of dietary vitamin D is fish.

So people living in northern latitudes *away from the coast* might have had to develop lighter skin (nb lighter not necessarily light).

Early farmers would have had the same problem.

If different skin lightening genes developed among different populations and if people from those populations later mixed then they might get both sets i.e. one population might just have the farmer ones while another people has both the farmer ones and the interior HG ones.
vitamin d theory of light skin adaptaion to low uv to produce more vitamin d is debunked long ago

firstly light eyes and skin repel sunlight not attract it so pale skin does not produce any vitamin d

if light skin would produce more vitamin d these white children would not get a deficiency of vitamin d on a vegan(fishless, dairyless diet)!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1028854/How-strict-vegan-diet-children-ill.html

so again adaptation theory is debunked by real science, no light skin does not produce vitamin d light skinned people have usually much lower levels of vitamin d

oca2 is the only responsible for blue eyes blondism and fair skin it for sure never was an adaptation at all.

also brown eyes have better night vision this is why most nocturnal animals have dark eyes! there is even a study which confirmed blue eyes have no advantage in nightvision, you can google it! again all points to oca1b / oca2

LeBrok
18-12-14, 06:21
vitamin d theory of light skin adaptaion to low uv to produce more vitamin d is debunked long ago

firstly light eyes and skin repel sunlight not attract it so pale skin does not produce any vitamin d


Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is produced through the action of ultraviolet irradiation (UV) on its precursor 7-dehydrocholesterol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-dehydrocholesterol). Human skin makes vitamin D3 and supplies about 90% of vitamin D.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-Holick_2006-1)

Vitamin D3 is produced photochemically in the skin from 7-dehydrocholesterol. The precursor of vitamin D3, 7-dehydrocholesterol is produced in relatively large quantities, 10,000 to 20,000 IU of vitamin D are produced in 30 minutes of whole-body exposure, in the skin of most vertebrate animals, including humans.[109] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-pmid12514284-109) 7-Dehydrocholesterol reacts with UVB light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light#Subtypes) at wavelengths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelengths) between 270 and 300 nm, with peak synthesis occurring between 295 and 297 nm.[110] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-Hume_Lucas_Smith_1927_362-367-110) These wavelengths are present in sunlight, as well as in the light emitted by the UV lamps in tanning beds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning_bed) (which produce ultraviolet primarily in the UVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light#Subtypes) spectrum, but typically produce 4% to 10% of the total UV emissions as UVB). Vitamin D3 can be made in the skin. Exposure to light through windows is insufficient because glass almost completely blocks UVB light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_ref-Holick_2006_1-0
At the bottom of this wiki page you will find 162 titles of scientific papers confirming this. 162 papers!


so again adaptation theory is debunked by real science, no light skin does not produce vitamin d light skinned people have usually much lower levels of vitamin d
Please produce one scientific paper saying that skin of white people doesn't produce vitamin D3!




if light skin would produce more vitamin d these white children would not get a deficiency of vitamin d on a vegan(fishless, dairyless diet)!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1028854/How-strict-vegan-diet-children-ill.html They sit in school half a day, spend time in front of computers at home and mother religiously apply sunscreen these days.

vigilantexplorer
18-12-14, 07:17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_ref-Holick_2006_1-0
At the bottom of this wiki page you will find 162 titles of scientific papers confirming this. 162 papers!


Please produce one scientific paper saying that skin of white people doesn't produce vitamin D3!


They sit in school half a day, spend time in front of computers at home and mother religiously apply sunscreen these days.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15151930

and here for those who think blue eyes are an adaptation for low uv and better night vision https://eccentricscientist.wordpress.com/2007/03/02/do-brown-eyes-see-better-than-blue/

LeBrok
18-12-14, 07:33
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15151930



Where does it say that white skin doesn't produce vitamin D? Please quote the paper.

PS. You don't want to be a liar, do you?

vigilantexplorer
18-12-14, 09:18
Where does it say that white skin doesn't produce vitamin D? Please quote the paper.

PS. You don't want to be a liar, do you?
i realized a while ago you have problems reading buddy.. or maybe just ignoring all what does not fit into your belief system.. who knows..


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15151930
The Cancer Research UK-funded team say that even with a lot of sun exposure, those with fair skin may not be able to make enough vitamin D.

white skin reflects sunlight! this is why white people on a vegan diet get rickets because they cannot produce enough vitamin d through the skin and need to eat fish. again proving white people are tyrosinase defective oca1b not adapted to low uv as many falsely claim.. otherwise we would not sell vitamin d fortified foods even in sunny california! so the only way our white ancestors could have survived was to settle in the cold north regions of the world because sunlight damages our skin, brings cancers, destroys folic acid and sperm which leads to degenerative births and other health issues.. since the british settled in australia they have lot of skin cancer issues

unless you have melanin in your skin you cannot produce enough vitamin d because melanin absorbs and converts sunlight into vitamin d which cannot happen when you are fair skinned because you lack melanin and tyrosinase to convert sunlight into vitamin d = oca1b

LeBrok
18-12-14, 17:53
i realized a while ago you have problems reading buddy.. or maybe just ignoring all what does not fit into your belief system.. who knows..



white skin reflects sunlight! this is why white people on a vegan diet get rickets because they cannot produce enough vitamin d through the skin and need to eat fish. again proving white people are tyrosinase defective oca1b not adapted to low uv as many falsely claim.. otherwise we would not sell vitamin d fortified foods even in sunny california! so the only way our white ancestors could have survived was to settle in the cold north regions of the world because sunlight damages our skin, brings cancers, destroys folic acid and sperm which leads to degenerative births and other health issues.. since the british settled in australia they have lot of skin cancer issues

unless you have melanin in your skin you cannot produce enough vitamin d because melanin absorbs and converts sunlight into vitamin d which cannot happen when you are fair skinned because you lack melanin and tyrosinase to convert sunlight into vitamin d = oca1b

You said this:

firstly light eyes and skin repel sunlight not attract it so pale skin does not produce any vitamin d
Now you can't find even one scientific paper confirming your statement?
On contrary, I pointed you to 162 scientific papers saying otherwise. You look like a liar.



unless you have melanin in your skin you cannot produce enough vitamin d because melanin absorbs and converts sunlight into vitamin d Before you open your mouth you should educat yourself. Melanin doesn't produce vitamin D, it only plays protectiver role:


Melanin http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Speakerlink-new.svg/11px-Speakerlink-new.svg.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Melanin-pronunciation.ogg)i (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Melanin-pronunciation.ogg)/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English)ˈ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ɛ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)l (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ə (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)n (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)ɪ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)n (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English#Key)/ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English) (Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): μέλας - melas, "black, dark") is a broad term for a group of natural pigments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigment) found in most organisms (arachnids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnid) are one of the few groups in which it has not been detected). Melanin is produced by the oxidation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation) of the amino acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid) tyrosine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosine), followed by polymerization. The pigment is produced in a specialized group of cells known as melanocytes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanocytes).
There are three basic types of melanin: eumelanin, pheomelanin, and neuromelanin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromelanin). The most common type is eumelanin, and is produced in 'black' and 'brown' subtypes. Pheomelanin is a cysteine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysteine)-containing red-brown polymer of benzothiazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzothiazine) units largely responsible for red hair and freckles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freckle). Neuromelanin is found in the brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain), though its function remains obscure.
In the skin, melanogenesis occurs after exposure to UV radiation, causing the skin to visibly tan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan). Melanin is an effective absorber of light; the pigment is able to dissipate over 99.9% of absorbed UV radiation.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin#cite_note-Meredith-1) Because of this property, melanin is thought to protect skin cells from UVB radiation damage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_DNA_damage), reducing the risk of cancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_cancer). Furthermore, though exposure to UV radiation is associated with increased risk of malignant melanoma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_melanoma), a cancer of the melanocytes, studies have shown a lower incidence for skin cancer in individuals with more concentrated melanin, i.e. darker skin tone. Nonetheless, the relationship between skin pigmentation and photoprotection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoprotection) is still being clarified.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin#cite_note-Electrodial_Crocodile_Style-2)



With humans, exposure to sunlight stimulates the skin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin) to produce vitamin D (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D). Because high levels of cutaneous melanin act as a natural sun screen, dark skin can be a risk factor for vitamin D deficiency in regions of the Earth known as cool temperate zones, i.e., above 36 degrees latitude in the Northern hemisphere and below 36 degrees in the Southern hemisphere. As a result of this, health authorities in Canada and the USA have issued recommendations for people with darker complexions (including people of southern European descent) to consume between 1000-2000 IU (International Units) of vitamin D, daily, autumn through spring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

Now, let's learn what produces Vitamin D:

Synthesis in the skin[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vitamin_D&action=edit&section=23)]Depending on the intensity of UVB rays and the minutes of exposure, an equilibrium can develop in the skin, and vitamin D degrades as fast as it is generated.[67] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-Holick_1995-67)Vitamin D3 is produced photochemically in the skin from 7-dehydrocholesterol. The precursor of vitamin D3, 7-dehydrocholesterol is produced in relatively large quantities, 10,000 to 20,000 IU of vitamin D are produced in 30 minutes of whole-body exposure, in the skin of most vertebrate animals, including humans.[109] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-pmid12514284-109) 7-Dehydrocholesterol reacts with UVB light (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light#Subtypes) at wavelengths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelengths) between 270 and 300 nm, with peak synthesis occurring between 295 and 297 nm.[110] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-Hume_Lucas_Smith_1927_362-367-110) These wavelengths are present in sunlight, as well as in the light emitted by the UV lamps in tanning beds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanning_bed) (which produce ultraviolet primarily in the UVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_light#Subtypes) spectrum, but typically produce 4% to 10% of the total UV emissions as UVB). Vitamin D3 can be made in the skin. Exposure to light through windows is insufficient because glass almost completely blocks UVB light.[111] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-111)[112] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-iuva-112)
The skin consists of two primary layers: the inner layer called the dermis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dermis), composed largely of connective tissue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connective_tissue), and the outer, thinner epidermis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidermis_(skin)). Thick epidermis in the soles and palms consists of five strata; from outer to inner, they are: the stratum corneum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_corneum), stratum lucidum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_lucidum), stratum granulosum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_granulosum), stratum spinosum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_spinosum), and stratum basale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_basale). Vitamin D is produced in the two innermost strata, the stratum basale and stratum spinosum.
The naked mole-rat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_mole-rat) appears to be naturally cholecalciferol-deficient, as serum 25-OH vitamin D levels are undetectable.[113] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D#cite_note-113) In some animals, the presence of fur or feathers blocks the UV rays from reaching the skin. In birds and fur-bearing mammals, vitamin D is generated from the oily secretions of the skin deposited onto the feathers or fur and is obtained orally during grooming


As you see, melanin doesn't produces Vitamin D, as you wrongly stadey. The only function of melanin to protect skin against UV radiation. The more melanin, the lesser vitamin D3 production.
It is supported by 162 scientific papers.


I hope you can comprehend it finally.

mihaitzateo
18-12-14, 23:13
Out of Afrika theory is just a pure nonsense.
When such a nonsense is supported with wrong interpreted arguments,no wonder that we can see also the theory that most Irish and British males are descending from Anatolia.
In fact,while West and East European languages are of Indian/Pakistan/Afghanistan origins,I think most genetics is from Finnic people,at Germanics people,because Germanics speakers assimilated Finnic people and next,they moved to Great Britain - the Angles and the Saxons.But most of the genetics,is not from these Germanic people.So here,from Germanics,no trace of Anatolian people.
Sure,the Celts came and assimilated the population in Great Britain which as most of their genetics,no idea from where they came,but from a very rainy and lacked of sun area,look at their very white skin,most people from Great Britain,they have very few sun tolerance compared to average German or Scandinavian.Also doubt that Celts came from Anatolia,never seen that they were farmers.So we have Celtic people,which came and assimilated native people from Britain and after that,Germanic people.
Areas with lots of rain are very good for raising cows so is quite obvious that most people from Great Britain,are not from Anatolia.
Geramnics also have high lactose tolerance and we can guess it was same at Celts.
Now I do not recall that Celts or Germans came from Anatolia,and according to lactose tolerance and white skin,neither the people that were in Great Britain before Celts came,are from Anatolia.
If we take a look in Basque country,there the raising of cows is also traditional,but in Anatolia,it was not.
So this theory with most British people being of Anatolian origin is just pure nonsense.
No logic behind it,just some people said that ,because they consider this,R1b-L21 is from Anatolia.
Nonsense,as already said.
Just another thing,wonder from where red hair originated,well besides Irish,Welsh and Scottish people,who had lots of red hair,there is also an Ugric tribe,living in Russia,which has lots of red hair.
So a more good theory is that Celts were living near Eastern Slavs and moved from there,towards West Europe.In Celtic languages can be found words from Slavic,just as a curiosity.

Melancon
19-12-14, 00:44
Out of Afrika theory is just a pure nonsense.
When such a nonsense is supported with wrong interpreted arguments,no wonder that we can see also the theory that most Irish and British males are descending from Anatolia.
In fact,while West and East European languages are of Indian/Pakistan/Afghanistan origins,I think most genetics is from Finnic people,at Germanics people,because Germanics speakers assimilated Finnic people and next,they moved to Great Britain - the Angles and the Saxons.But most of the genetics,is not from these Germanic people.So here,from Germanics,no trace of Anatolian people.
Sure,the Celts came and assimilated the population in Great Britain which as most of their genetics,no idea from where they came,but from a very rainy and lacked of sun area,look at their very white skin,most people from Great Britain,they have very few sun tolerance compared to average German or Scandinavian.Also doubt that Celts came from Anatolia,never seen that they were farmers.So we have Celtic people,which came and assimilated native people from Britain and after that,Germanic people.
Areas with lots of rain are very good for raising cows so is quite obvious that most people from Great Britain,are not from Anatolia.
Geramnics also have high lactose tolerance and we can guess it was same at Celts.
Now I do not recall that Celts or Germans came from Anatolia,and according to lactose tolerance and white skin,neither the people that were in Great Britain before Celts came,are from Anatolia.
If we take a look in Basque country,there the raising of cows is also traditional,but in Anatolia,it was not.
So this theory with most British people being of Anatolian origin is just pure nonsense.
No logic behind it,just some people said that ,because they consider this,R1b-L21 is from Anatolia.
Nonsense,as already said.
Just another thing,wonder from where red hair originated,well besides Irish,Welsh and Scottish people,who had lots of red hair,there is also an Ugric tribe,living in Russia,which has lots of red hair.
So a more good theory is that Celts were living near Eastern Slavs and moved from there,towards West Europe.In Celtic languages can be found words from Slavic,just as a curiosity.It is obvious that we are all related to each other. (races) But I do agree that the current (working) theory of Out of Africa isn't good and contradictory to me.

I would assume that the Udmurts may have originally been R1b people; related to the pre-Celts, long before being decimated by N1c people. It seems the Kunda/Combed ware culture and the Yamna culture had a cross-roads/mixture of sorts.

I believe that the Hungarians are the descendents of Sarmatians that were mixed and brought to a Uralic speaking population. They dropped their Indo-European language and gradually migrated into Central Europe.

Greying Wanderer
19-12-14, 11:23
It's possible that the earliest kind of wheat may have been affected by moisture problems, but the archeological evidence nevertheless suggests that it was a common crop that helped boost the population during the Neolithic. And barley, peas and flax would have flourished. Widespread lactase persistence seems to have developed later.

As for potatoes, they seem to have been introduced to western Ireland by Spanish cod fishermen in the late 1500s, and were a boon to the Irish population, who had been driven off most of the land by English colonists. However, there were massive potato crop failures from 1845 to 1851, and millions of Irish starved to death or were forced to immigrate while English landlords continued to export meat and grain. If you want to learn something about Irish history, pick an author who isn't English.

I know the history.

The Atlantic coast wasn't suitable for neolithic crop farming - for whatever reason - hence the Atlantic Megalith culture mostly relying on fishing and that big gap along hte western edge of the range of the LBK culture. (I'm just assuming it was wind and rain as the unsuitability spread all the way down the Atlantic coast.) It seems to me this lack of suitability will be a critical factor in the history of what happened so shouldn't be ignored because of a contemporary political argument.

Greying Wanderer
19-12-14, 11:33
Nobody is saying that Anatolians got into boats and sailed directly to Ireland. But there's plenty of evidence that the ancestors of early European farmers moved through Anatolia and the Balkans on their way to western Europe, and I believe some also migrated along the Mediterranean and Atlantic over the course of many generations.

I think that's what the journalists are saying and what most people reading it would think they meant. I agree with the rest though.

edit: also agree it's not worth getting too het up over what journalists say

Greying Wanderer
19-12-14, 11:47
vitamin d theory of light skin adaptaion to low uv to produce more vitamin d is debunked long ago

firstly light eyes and skin repel sunlight not attract it so pale skin does not produce any vitamin d

if light skin would produce more vitamin d these white children would not get a deficiency of vitamin d on a vegan(fishless, dairyless diet)!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1028854/How-strict-vegan-diet-children-ill.html

so again adaptation theory is debunked by real science, no light skin does not produce vitamin d light skinned people have usually much lower levels of vitamin d

oca2 is the only responsible for blue eyes blondism and fair skin it for sure never was an adaptation at all.

also brown eyes have better night vision this is why most nocturnal animals have dark eyes! there is even a study which confirmed blue eyes have no advantage in nightvision, you can google it! again all points to oca1b / oca2

If there were multiple adaptations for lighter skin among separate populations - say a NW one, a NE one and a southern farmer one - and all those adaptations worked fine separately it doesn't mean they would all work together.

Aberdeen
19-12-14, 21:54
I know the history.

The Atlantic coast wasn't suitable for neolithic crop farming - for whatever reason - hence the Atlantic Megalith culture mostly relying on fishing and that big gap along hte western edge of the range of the LBK culture. (I'm just assuming it was wind and rain as the unsuitability spread all the way down the Atlantic coast.) It seems to me this lack of suitability will be a critical factor in the history of what happened so shouldn't be ignored because of a contemporary political argument.

The fishing and gathering culture of Mesolithic Ireland was a fishing and gathering culture that didn't rely on agriculture not because agriculture would have been impossible in Ireland during that period but because it had a Mesolithic culture that hadn't yet discovered farming. By about 6000 years ago, farmers were starting to displace the previous fishing and gathering culture, but the earliest evidence for livestock does not predate the earliest evidence for the cultivation of wheat and barley. In the early Neolithic, crops and livestock went together. A good source of information about the Irish Neolithic is "Landscapes of Neolithic Ireland" by Gabriel Cooney (ISBN 9780415169776).

I only mentioned potatoes in the context of discussing population crashes. You're the one who wanted to discuss the positive aspects of Irish potatoes. I was just reminding you that the reality was far more complex.

vigilantexplorer
20-12-14, 08:44
You said this:

Now you can't find even one scientific paper confirming your statement?
On contrary, I pointed you to 162 scientific papers saying otherwise. You look like a liar.


Before you open your mouth you should educat yourself. Melanin doesn't produce vitamin D, it only plays protectiver role:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin

Now, let's learn what produces Vitamin D:


As you see, melanin doesn't produces Vitamin D, as you wrongly stadey. The only function of melanin to protect skin against UV radiation. The more melanin, the lesser vitamin D3 production.
It is supported by 162 scientific papers.


I hope you can comprehend it finally.


Now you can't find even one scientific paper confirming your statement?
On contrary, I pointed you to 162 scientific papers saying otherwise. You look like a liar.

none of us is lying we both have half truths with our theories, this article puts all nicely together..


in sunlight? We already know that sunlight exposure can reduce the risk of over 30 diseases, and that its primary metabolite in our skin, vitamin D, may reduce the risk of over 150 additional conditions. Our biological connection to, and dependence on, the sun, is so profound that the very variation in human skin color from African, melanin-saturated dark skin, to the relatively melanin de-pigmented, Caucasian lighter-skin, is a byproduct of the offspring of our last common ancestor from Africa (as determined by mitochondrial DNA) migrating towards sunlight-impoverished higher latitudes, which began approximately 60,000 years ago. In order to compensate for the lower availability of sunlight, the body rapidly adjusted, essentially requiring the removal of the natural "sunscreen" melanin from the skin, which interferes with vitamin D production; vitamin D, of course, is involved in the regulation of over 2,000 genes, and therefore is more like a hormone, without which our entire genetic infrastructure becomes destabilized.

While a life-saving adaptation, the loss of melanin likely has adverse health effects, which include losing the ability to convert sunlight into metabolic energy, increased prevalence of Parkinson's disease (which involves de-melanization of the substantia nigra and disproportionately affects those of Caucasian descent), and others effects which have yet been investigated in any detail. For now, it is important to point out that within the span of only 60,000 years (a nanosecond in biological time), many of the skin "color" differences among the world's human inhabitants reflect how heavily genetically-conserved was the ability of the human body to produce vitamin D. Furthermore, the trade-off involved in maintaining the ability create enough vitamin D within a sunlight-deprived clime by sacrificing melanin may have had adverse health effects that are only now being investigated.http://www.sott.net/article/243195-Is-Skin-Pigment-Melanin-A-Light-Harvesting-Substance


Melanin is capable of transforming ultraviolet light energy into heat in a process known as "ultrafast internal conversion"; more than 99.9% of the absorbed UV radiation is transformed from potentially genotoxic (DNA-damaging) ultraviolet light into harmless heat.
this is what i meant when i said polar bears eskimos inuits heat up their bodies through melanin..

so in a sense both of us were right you with your adaptation theory and i with my oca1b theory about how low melanin levels lead to serious health problems and the thermal advantage of melanin in colder climate..

MOESAN
20-12-14, 23:17
Peace then? it's true, Christmas os coming on! (humor)

equilibrium between diverse adaptative traits are very subtil in some climatic environment, not straight-away results, not everytime -
that said, the most advantaged people are not the allways dark skinned ones but the ones who can change colour according to needs and environment:
finally, most of Europeans and slightly brown skinned people are not too disadvantaged, because they are basically fair enough under weak sun action and can tan easily enough (with some time) when sun action tends to be stronger...

Harutyan Jort
03-09-15, 03:56
Turkey? I think Anatolia is the name for that place back to few thousand years ago

RobertColumbia
04-09-15, 05:34
i dont need one. cause any man with knowledge in genetics should know the irsh are dominated by haplogroup R as well as the indians (UNDENIABLE)....

This is correct, and is most likely a significant contributor to the fact that Ireland and much of India speak Indo-European languages. The so-called "Aryan Invasion" theory of India, which may have brought Sanskrit and/or other IE languages to India, actually fits in reasonably well with a similar IE invasion of Ireland that brought R lineages and Celtic languages.

What this doesn't tell us, however, is where these R men came from. The greatest diversity in R seems to cluster in West Asia and Anatolia, leading to the hypothesis (but not proof) that these men probably spread from there. By contrast, Ireland (for example) is dominated by certain rather specific subclades (a big one being L21 and its own subclades, one of which I belong to), and lacks the diversity found in most other places. This leads to a likelihood that the R-men of Ireland are paternally descended from only a small subset of the original "R" population.

RobertColumbia
04-09-15, 05:45
Peace then? it's true, Christmas os coming on! (humor)

equilibrium between diverse adaptative traits are very subtil in some climatic environment, not straight-away results, not everytime -
that said, the most advantaged people are not the allways dark skinned ones but the ones who can change colour according to needs and environment:
finally, most of Europeans and slightly brown skinned people are not too disadvantaged, because they are basically fair enough under weak sun action and can tan easily enough (with some time) when sun action tends to be stronger...

Europeans are also quite adaptable. Why would Europeans ever try to live in Florida, and stay there for multiple generations? Florida gets as much sun as Egypt. Why didn't all the Europeans die from sunburn?

LeBrok
04-09-15, 07:54
Europeans are also quite adaptable. Why would Europeans ever try to live in Florida, and stay there for multiple generations? Florida gets as much sun as Egypt. Why didn't all the Europeans die from sunburn?Cloths, hats and sunscreen these days. If they lived naked like some tribes in Africa and Amazon Jungle you would see that the whitest ones would experience high mortality due to skin cancer. Australia is top example of highest skin cancer of people of European descent. Having said that, clothing is an adaptation component, though not necessarily invented by Europeans.

RobertColumbia
04-09-15, 14:41
Cloths, hats and sunscreen these days. If they lived naked like some tribes in Africa and Amazon Jungle you would see that the whitest ones would experience high mortality due to skin cancer. Australia is top example of highest skin cancer of people of European descent. Having said that, clothing is an adaptation component, though not necessarily invented by Europeans.

Of course. This just goes to show that genetics aren't the only thing affecting adaptability to climate. Culture and technology also play important roles.

RobertColumbia
04-09-15, 15:21
...
As for the influence of sexual selection, that has always seemed problematic to me because it is so subject to changes in culture. Obviously, if a group rises to power which carries a certain phenotype, that phenotype might and probably will become preferred and there will be sexual selection for it....


Of course. This is sometimes given as a potential reason for the modern commonality of y-haplogroup R1b-M222 in historically Gaelic speaking areas, as it is hypothesized to be (but cannot be proven to be) the haplotype of the Uí Néill and related ruling dynasties. It's interesting to speculate whether a medieval grandmother of mine may have intentionally gone on a quest to claim her own Irish Prince (or at least someone related to a prince), resulting in her sons passing along R1b-M222 to their own sons.

Also, speaking of male attractiveness, why is it that Celtic men are significantly over represented in romance novels, at least the romance novels that are popular in the USA? Do many women have an innate desire for them or is it more of a cultural thing?

João Resende
30-12-15, 06:16
Concerning Ireland, there's a new interesting study: Ancient DNA sheds light on Irish originsBy Paul Rincon Science editor, BBC News website


«The work shows that early Irish farmers were similar to southern Europeans.

Genetic patterns then changed dramatically in the Bronze Age - as newcomers from the eastern periphery of Europe settled in the Atlantic region.»

«DNA analysis of the Neolithic woman from Ballynahatty, near Belfast, reveals that she was most similar to modern people from Spain and Sardinia. But her ancestors ultimately came to Europe from the Middle East, where agriculture was invented.

The males from Rathlin Island, who lived not long after metallurgy was introduced, showed a different pattern to the Neolithic woman. A third of their ancestry came from ancient sources in the Pontic Steppe - a region now spread across Russia and Ukraine.»

Sile
30-12-15, 21:26
Title should read Anatolian Farmers instead of Turkish farmers ................Turkic influence in Turkey is just over 1000 years old

John Doe
30-12-15, 21:43
Title should read Anatolian Farmers instead of Turkish farmers ................Turkic influence in Turkey is just over 1000 years old Not to mention we're also talking about Pre Historic farmers from Anatolia, not connected to any sort of civilisation.

P.S I'm fairly sure that the Neolithic Anatolian component among modern populations reaches its peak among Sardinians and Basques.

Autshumato
17-03-17, 22:45
Look up: "The Evolution of Light Skin Color:
Role of Vitamin D Disputed".