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mihaitzateo
06-07-14, 15:37
Was curious,anyone knows some autosomal results for Tatar people?

John Doe
06-07-14, 15:47
I reckon an average Crimean Tatar would get on K15 mainly West Asian, perhaps some Eastern Euro? And some more, on 23andme they'd probably get a lot of Central/East Asian and Eastern European. But these are just speculations.


Edit:

I got the K15 spreadsheet, no Tatars but here's the result for Turkmen:
North Sea: 4%
Atlantic: 3%
Baltic: 3%
Eastern Euro: 10%
West Med: 2%
West Asian: 28%
East Med: 19%
Red sea: 3%
South Asian: 14%
Southeast Asian: 5%
Siberian: 7%
Amerindian: 1%

mihaitzateo
06-07-14, 16:42
I reckon an average Crimean Tatar would get on K15 mainly West Asian, perhaps some Eastern Euro? And some more, on 23andme they'd probably get a lot of Central/East Asian and Eastern European. But these are just speculations.


Edit:

I got the K15 spreadsheet, no Tatars but here's the result for Turkmen:
North Sea: 4%
Atlantic: 3%
Baltic: 3%
Eastern Euro: 10%
West Med: 2%
West Asian: 28%
East Med: 19%
Red sea: 3%
South Asian: 14%
Southeast Asian: 5%
Siberian: 7%
Amerindian: 1%

Is weird how Turkmen got so much South Asian admixture.

Goga
06-07-14, 17:07
Is weird how Turkmen got so much South Asian admixture.
Turkmen live on the ancestral lands of very ancient Iranians. BMAC is located around current Turkmenistan and NorthEast Persia. BMAC was homeland of those Aryans that invaded India. Also, Turkmen are very close to modern Iranic people like Kurds (Medes) and Persians. Turkmen are practically Iranic people with lots of NorthEast Eurasian (Mongoloid) admixture. There's lots of Caucaso-Gedrosia components among Turanic speaking Turkmen.

mihaitzateo
06-07-14, 18:42
Turkmen live on the ancestral lands of very ancient Iranians. BMAC is located around current Turkmenistan and NorthEast Persia. BMAC was homeland of those Aryans that invaded India. Also, Turkmen are very close to modern Iranic people like Kurds (Medes) and Persians. Turkmen are practically Iranic people with lots of NorthEast Eurasian (Mongoloid) admixture. There's lots of Caucaso-Gedrosia components among Turanic speaking Turkmen.

I noticed that Kurds have more South Asian admixture,while Farsi people,have fewer South Asian admixture.
But I doubt even Kurds got that much South Asian admixture,I mean 15%,I know they have like maximum 10% South Asian admixture.
If Turkic people conquered those Iranic people and those Iranic people were bearing 10% South Asian and Turkic people contributed with 1/3 of DNA,that would make maximum 6.6% South Asian Admixture.
Anyway,from where is the source of South Asian admixture in Kurds and Farsi people?
I found another thread on Eupedia which got some results for some Tatar people:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28883-Turks-with-10-25-Mongoloid-admixture-%28-Turkish-people-autosomal-DNA-%29/page3
The image can be better seen here:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/evi-volga-1.png
No Tatar got significant South Indian admixture,as you can see.
Most admixture are NE European /West Asian (West Asian,most for Crimeea Tatars).
One more thing,Tatars got lots of NE European admixture,which is not the case with Turkmens.

John Doe
06-07-14, 18:53
I noticed that Kurds have more South Asian admixture,while Farsi people,have fewer South Asian admixture.
But I doubt even Kurds got that much South Asian admixture,I mean 15%,I know they have like maximum 10% South Asian admixture.
If Turkic people conquered those Iranic people and those Iranic people were bearing 10% South Asian and Turkic people contributed with 1/3 of DNA,that would make maximum 6.6% South Asian Admixture.
Anyway,from where is the source of South Asian admixture in Kurds and Farsi people?
I found another thread on Eupedia which got some results for some Tatar people:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28883-Turks-with-10-25-Mongoloid-admixture-%28-Turkish-people-autosomal-DNA-%29/page3
The image can be better seen here:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x251/zemelmete/Genetika/evi-volga-1.png
No Tatar got significant South Indian admixture,as you can see.
Most admixture are NE European /West Asian (West Asian,most for Crimeea Tatars).
One more thing,Tatars got lots of NE European admixture,which is not the case with Turkmens.

I reckon it comes mainly from the last 1,500 years, since the Turkic invasions began.

Wilhelm
06-07-14, 21:00
I reckon an average Crimean Tatar would get on K15 mainly West Asian, perhaps some Eastern Euro? And some more, on 23andme they'd probably get a lot of Central/East Asian and Eastern European. But these are just speculations.


Edit:

I got the K15 spreadsheet, no Tatars but here's the result for Turkmen:
North Sea: 4%
Atlantic: 3%
Baltic: 3%
Eastern Euro: 10%
West Med: 2%
West Asian: 28%
East Med: 19%
Red sea: 3%
South Asian: 14%
Southeast Asian: 5%
Siberian: 7%
Amerindian: 1%

Here is the Tatars :

North Sea: 14.4%
Atlantic: 10.7%
Baltic: 16.2%
Eastern Euro: 22.2%
West Med: 2.7%
West Asian: 9.6%
East Med: 1.4%
Red sea: 0.7%
South Asian: 2.4%
Southeast Asian: 3.0%
Siberian: 14.2%
Amerindian: 1.7%

mihaitzateo
06-07-14, 21:34
Here is the Tatars :

North Sea: 14.4%
Atlantic: 10.7%
Baltic: 16.2%
Eastern Euro: 22.2%
West Med: 2.7%
West Asian: 9.6%
East Med: 1.4%
Red sea: 0.7%
South Asian: 2.4%
Southeast Asian: 3.0%
Siberian: 14.2%
Amerindian: 1.7%

Thanks a lot.
This test has also Central Asian admixture?
I was reading theories that Tatars are mainly Fino-Ugrian which mixed/were conquered by Mongolians and these autosomal results confirm that theory.

LeBrok
06-07-14, 22:10
Here is the Tatars :

North Sea: 14.4%
Atlantic: 10.7%
Baltic: 16.2%
Eastern Euro: 22.2%
West Med: 2.7%
West Asian: 9.6%
East Med: 1.4%
Red sea: 0.7%
South Asian: 2.4%
Southeast Asian: 3.0%
Siberian: 14.2%
Amerindian: 1.7%
Where is this Tatar(s) from?

AgnusDei
07-07-14, 03:10
There was a Russian lady with Tartar ancestry on ABF .
If I remember correctly,her 23andme results didn't differ much from other Russian posters on the forum,she was slightly Asian shifted tho .

LeBrok
07-07-14, 07:57
There was a Russian lady with Tartar ancestry on ABF .
If I remember correctly,her 23andme results didn't differ much from other Russian posters on the forum,she was slightly Asian shifted tho .
They scattered all across from Central Asia to Eastern Europe almost one thousand years ago. They've crossed with many communities during this time. Tatar from Tatarstan will have different results than Tatar from Poland or Crimea, I suppose.

mihaitzateo
07-07-14, 22:37
There was a Russian lady with Tartar ancestry on ABF .
If I remember correctly,her 23andme results didn't differ much from other Russian posters on the forum,she was slightly Asian shifted tho .
So it seems actually Tatars are rather NE European people with some Mongolian and Siberian admixture,conquered and assimilated by Turkic people.
Later,they started to raid in Eastern Europe.
Very interesting how genetic autosomal tests start to present the truth,which some might not like.

Engel
08-07-14, 08:44
Just wondering if they are predominantly y dna R1a?

mihaitzateo
12-07-14, 21:49
Just wondering if they are predominantly y dna R1a?

http://www.idosi.org/mejsr/mejsr17%284%2913/15.pdf
This is what I found,more relevant.
They have mostly N1C,23.5% of their paternal lines,followed by R1A,21.6%.
They are clustering between Komi and Chuvash people,with Komi being Ugrian speaking people while Chuvash being Turkic speakers.

Wilhelm
13-07-14, 01:59
Just wondering if they are predominantly y dna R1a?
Here in Eupedia you got some haplogropus for Tatars (under Russia) :

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Greying Wanderer
13-07-14, 12:49
So it seems actually Tatars are rather NE European people with some Mongolian and Siberian admixture,conquered and assimilated by Turkic people. Later,they started to raid in Eastern Europe. Very interesting how genetic autosomal tests start to present the truth,which some might not like.

I think slavery may be very important here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

"Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Commonwealth citizens were carried off into Crimean slavery.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate#cite_note-11)"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#Slavery_in_Russia

"In Crimea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea), about 75% of the population consisted of slaves.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#cite_note-40)"

The Tatars might be an example of a steppe raider population gradually becoming (autosomally) the same as the population they raid.

mihaitzateo
13-07-14, 16:37
Here in Eupedia you got some haplogropus for Tatars (under Russia) :

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
The sample for results there is not that large.
I think are not so reliable studies for Tatars till now,but is clear that N1C+R1a makes most of Tatar paternal lines.
Which shows that they are clearly NE Europeans.

LeBrok
13-07-14, 17:51
I think slavery may be very important here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

"Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Commonwealth citizens were carried off into Crimean slavery.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate#cite_note-11)"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#Slavery_in_Russia

"In Crimea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea), about 75% of the population consisted of slaves.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#cite_note-40)"

The Tatars might be an example of a steppe raider population gradually becoming (autosomally) the same as the population they raid.




I think this is most probable scenario explaining why Tatars are indistinguishable from locals. They are culturally Tatars but genetically locals.

mihaitzateo
14-07-14, 21:30
I think slavery may be very important here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate

"Fisher estimates that in the sixteenth century the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth lost around 20,000 individuals a year and that from 1474 to 1694, as many as a million Commonwealth citizens were carried off into Crimean slavery.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate#cite_note-11)"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#Slavery_in_Russia

"In Crimea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea), about 75% of the population consisted of slaves.[40] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_medieval_Europe#cite_note-40)"

The Tatars might be an example of a steppe raider population gradually becoming (autosomally) the same as the population they raid.





Wondering what HGs were carrying and how autosomal genetics of Tatars were around 1000 AD.

John Doe
14-07-14, 21:56
Wondering what HGs were carrying and how autosomal genetics of Tatars were around 1000 AD.
I reckon Q was in abundance. Don't forget, to this day, there are Tatars, from Tatarstan, which is located in the Volga region, and the Crimean Tatars, from the Crimea. The former probably retained much of their Central Asia appearance and genetics, the latter probably adopted East European appearances/genetics through intermarriage, I saw many Crimean Tatars that are Blonde Blue eyed, could be mistaken for Slavs, but then they strike you by calling god "Allah".

Tomenable
06-08-15, 03:50
A recent photo of Crimean Tatars from Ukrainian units fighting against the Russians in Donbass:

https://pp.vk.me/c618730/v618730931/25f89/BYtrKg04jj4.jpg

LeBrok
06-08-15, 06:02
A recent photo of Crimean Tatars from Ukrainian units fighting against the Russians in Donbass:

It has not much to do with Tatar's genetics. Should we move it to Crimean thread?
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/29635-Should-Crimea-be-an-independent-country-(Russian-Ukrainian-conflict)

cylnlts
03-02-17, 12:29
Calculator ?? for Tatars


Thanks a lot.
This test has also Central Asian admixture?
I was reading theories that Tatars are mainly Fino-Ugrian which mixed/were conquered by Mongolians and these autosomal results confirm that theory.

tahir0010
19-02-17, 02:55
Tatar are very mixed between Turkmen, and even I think some mongol. As I know red hair is very common among them also which I am guessing came from mongloid.