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Alan
24-07-14, 03:09
As Islamic Militants Destroy Iraq Heritage, a Stunning Find in Kurdistan

By Alexandra Di Stefano Pironti (http://rudaw.net/english/authors/alexandra_di_stefano_pironti) yesterday at 06:50

http://rudaw.net/ContentFiles/56243Image1.jpg

At the temple, the columns are made of green basalt, and some with sandstone, limestone and marble.
BARCELONA, Spain – While the history of civilization is being demolished by war and religious zealots in the rest of Iraq, in the Kurdistan Region archeologists are marveling at a stunning discovery: the remains of a long-lost temple from the biblical kingdom of Urartu, dating back to the 9th century BC.


Kurdish archaeologist Dlshad Marf Zamua, who has studied the columns and other artifacts at the find, told Rudaw these were unearthed piecemeal over the past four decades by villagers going about their lives, digging for cultivation or construction.


But only recently, after the discovery of life-size human statues and the unearthed columns, Zamua realized that the villagers had stumbled upon the temple of Haldi. That was one of the most important gods of Urartu, an Iron-Age kingdom around Lake Van in the Armenian.


The temple was found in the village of Mdjeser, in the district of Bradost-Sidekan, the most northeastern corner of Iraq and bordering Iran and Turkey.


“The temple was recorded very well in the Assyrian and Urartian inscriptions,” explained Zamua, a doctoral student at Leiden University in the Netherlands who also teaches at Salahaddin University in Erbil.


“One of the reliefs depicts the plunder of the temple by the Assyrian King Sargon II in 714 BC,” said the researcher, who spent from 2005 to 2012 working on the site.


According to historical evidence and the recently uncovered sites, the ancient city of Musasir, located where Mdjeser is today, was home to Haldi’s temple.


Mdjeser was one of more than 4,000 villages destroyed during the Anfal campaign of former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, which especially targeted the Kurds and is gaining international recognition as an act of genocide.


Even now some villagers will not return to rebuild their homes because of the troubles in Iraq, which have made things worse in this border region.


The ancient capital was known as Musasir by the Assyrians and as Ardini by the Urartians themselves. It was among the lands that formed a string of buffer states between the two powers of the time, Assyria and Urartu.


Zamua also studied eleven human-size statues unearthed in the same area, which he believes are from the Scythian state of the 7th-6th century BC. They were originally erected above the graves of chieftains and warrior leaders.


“Most of the uncovered statues at Mdjeser and the neighboring Topzawa Valley have also a typical Scythian iconography,” Zamua said, explaining the figures were shown in real-life situations, such as holding a cup, strapping on a dagger or holding a hatchet, the preferred Scythian weapon.


At the temple, the columns are made of green basalt, and some with sandstone, limestone and marble.


“The importance of my research is that is the first time on the base of archaeological and textual data that we can show the penetration of the Scythians into Kurdistan during the 8th -7th centuries BC,” Zamua said.


“Kurdistan is one of the richest areas in the world in archaeology. There are thousands of archaeological sites -- caves, settlements, cities, citadels, castles, rock reliefs, bridges -- covering almost all the history and the lives of humans on earth from the stone ages to modern times.”


Luckily, the archaeological sites in Brodost-Sidekan are far from the rebellion and war raging across Iraq for more than a month.


Still, being an archeologist in Kurdistan is not easy, Zamua said, listing the dangers to include tens of thousands of unexploded land mines, especially from the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war.


Other hazards are Iranian shelling of the area, Zamua said, which happened last in June. Turkish jets also have bombed the area several times in the past.


As an archaeologist, Zamua worries about the impact of war and the Islamic State (IS) on sites that are some of the earliest records of civilization.


IS fighters have been destroying historical sites during their military conquests, especially targeting Shiite shrines.


“In this chaotic situation they may loot ancient objects and sell them in the international black market to fund these groups,” Zamua said, voicing a growing concern.


He said that in this regard Kurdistan was acting very responsibly.


“Kurdistan is protecting its borders very well and the directorates of antiquities actively are trying to look at the archaeological sites to protect them,” he said.


He applauded the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) for allowing foreign archeologists to work on sites. But he complained that, “there is no special fund for local archaeologists to start big projects.”


http://rudaw.net/english/culture/22072014



So city was Urartain with Scythian settlements under war with the Assyrians on their southern border.

Vinnie
24-07-14, 03:47
So the Kurds are descendants of proto-Armenians?

LeBrok
24-07-14, 08:09
So city was Urartain with Scythian settlements under war with the Assyrians on their southern border.
Here we go, this might explain interesting paternal haplogroups among Kurds.

Vinnie
24-07-14, 08:24
“One of the reliefs depicts the plunder of the temple by the Assyrian King Sargon II in 714 BC,” said the researcher, who spent from 2005 to 2012 working on the site."

I'm assuming this is a drawing of the relief:

http://rudaw.net/ContentFiles/56243Image1.jpg

bicicleur
24-07-14, 11:29
So the Kurds are descendants of proto-Armenians?

I wouldn't think so, proto-Armenians descend from Catacomb culture, R1b

Look at the maps :
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml upto 15 % R1a
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml over 15 % I2a1

together 30 %

I'd say Cimmerians (Srubna culture) , maybe some Scyths too , but Cimmerians explain the I2a1 better

Vinnie
24-07-14, 11:35
I wouldn't think so, proto-Armenians descend from Catacomb culture, R1b

Look at the maps :
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_R1a_Y-DNA.shtml upto 15 % R1a
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml over 15 % I2a1

together 30 %

I'd say Cimmerians (Srubna culture) , maybe some Scyths too , but Cimmerians explain the I2a1 better

But Urartu was from Armenia. And this site is found in "Kurdistan"?

bicicleur
24-07-14, 12:10
Urartu was not IE (?)
I guess it descended from Kura-Araxes , which was supposed G2a
But according to the map there is not much G2a in Kurdistan

strange ..

Alan
24-07-14, 12:15
So the Kurds are descendants of proto-Armenians?

Despite what Wikipedia says. Urartians are very unlikely proto-Armenians. claiming Urartians to be an ethnicity which didn't even existed so far back is based on chauvinistic viewpoint and has not much to do with science. Urartians are an "isolated group"(or yet unidentified). Armenians probably have some Urartian admixture but a Phrygian origin is allot more likely.

Alan
24-07-14, 12:21
Here we go, this might explain interesting paternal haplogroups among Kurds.

Thats not the only time such sides have been discovered 600 years earlier. It seems that the Assyrian penetration into North Mesopotamia and the Transcaucasus/Anatolia has smudged allot of archeological evidences away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakk%C3%A2ri#Hakkari_kurgan_stelae

Alan
24-07-14, 12:56
Urartu was not IE (?)
I guess it descended from Kura-Araxes , which was supposed G2a
But according to the map there is not much G2a in Kurdistan

strange ..

Is there actually any evidence Kura Araxes was all G2a? I suspect allot of R* too.
Also despite G2a showing strangely weak in Kurds in Eupedia charts this might be coincidence and due to low/local sampling. For example 6% R1b in Turkish Kurdistan thats the weakest frequency I have seen in all of the studies made on this land. Usually Turkish Kurdistan scores in allot of studies 10-20% R1b and G2a reaches average of 8% in Kurdistan. 17-20% of I* is a bit too high too. No doubt that I* exists there cause I have seen individual samples turning out I2*, but I assume that this would also be corrected down to 10% with further sampling.

Goga
24-07-14, 18:06
Oh no, not again. Kurds are predominately the Medes. There are still very close genetic ties between the Persians and Kurds, like in the past the Medes and ancient Persians were very close related.

Although it’s true that the Cimmerians and Scythians sacked the Urartu (Hurrian) empire together with the Aryan Medes. But the Medes (ancestors of the Medes) destroyed Scytho-Cimmerian kings and threw out Scythians out of Kurdistan. True, Scythians were in Kurdistan, but Kurds are from the Medes. But I don’t deny that Kurds have some genetic input from the Scythians. And we have also some genetic input from the Urartu and Chaldeans at the time when they were Zoroastrians.
Urartu came originally from the Caucasus mountains. The ancient Assyrians came from the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula.
The Kurds (Matiene/Mitanni,Kassites, Gutians, Medes etc.) are the native inhabitants of Kurdistan (Northern Mesopotamia)!

Goga
24-07-14, 18:10
Thats not the only time such sides have been discovered 600 years earlier. It seems that the Assyrian penetration into North Mesopotamia and the Transcaucasus/Anatolia has smudged allot of archeological evidences away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakk%C3%A2ri#Hakkari_kurgan_stelae They found even much, much older 'kurgan' stelaes in North West Iran, in Azerbaijan area.

Vinnie
24-07-14, 18:40
Oh no, not again. Kurds are predominately the Medes. There are still very close genetic ties between the Persians and Kurds, like in the past the Medes and ancient Persians were very close related.

Although it’s true that the Cimmerians and Scythians sacked the Urartu (Hurrian) empire together with the Aryan Medes. But the Medes (ancestors of the Medes) destroyed Scytho-Cimmerian kings and threw out Scythians out of Kurdistan. True, Scythians were in Kurdistan, but Kurds are from the Medes. But I don’t deny that Kurds have some genetic input from the Scythians. And we have also some genetic input from the Urartu and Chaldeans at the time when they were Zoroastrians.
Urartu came originally from the Caucasus mountains. The ancient Assyrians came from the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula.
The Kurds (Matiene/Mitanni,Kassites, Gutians, Medes etc.) are the native inhabitants of Kurdistan (Northern Mesopotamia)!

>>> interesting

How about the Indo-Aryans who ruled the Hurrian Mitanni, what happend to them..

Vinnie
24-07-14, 18:50
Also, how much mongoloid genetics is there in Kurdistan? The Girl here on the right looks Turkic.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7007/6588934289_e156513eb2_z.jpg

bicicleur
24-07-14, 19:30
Is there actually any evidence Kura Araxes was all G2a? I suspect allot of R* too.
Also despite G2a showing strangely weak in Kurds in Eupedia charts this might be coincidence and due to low/local sampling. For example 6% R1b in Turkish Kurdistan thats the weakest frequency I have seen in all of the studies made on this land. Usually Turkish Kurdistan scores in allot of studies 10-20% R1b and G2a reaches average of 8% in Kurdistan. 17-20% of I* is a bit too high too. No doubt that I* exists there cause I have seen individual samples turning out I2*, but I assume that this would also be corrected down to 10% with further sampling.

no evidence for that , but genetically they may be related to the Maykop people , that's why I think G2a
R1* or R1b* I would expect a little further east .. maybe the Gutians

bicicleur
24-07-14, 19:33
Despite what Wikipedia says. Urartians are very unlikely proto-Armenians. claiming Urartians to be an ethnicity which didn't even existed so far back is based on chauvinistic viewpoint and has not much to do with science. Urartians are an "isolated group"(or yet unidentified). Armenians probably have some Urartian admixture but a Phrygian origin is allot more likely.

what language did Urartians speak , anything known about that ?

bicicleur
24-07-14, 19:35
Also, how much mongoloid genetics is there in Kurdistan? The Girl here on the right looks Turkic.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7007/6588934289_e156513eb2_z.jpg

a nice blend of a lot of different ethnicities, it seems to me

Alan
24-07-14, 20:35
Oh no, not again. Kurds are predominately the Medes. There are still very close genetic ties between the Persians and Kurds, like in the past the Medes and ancient Persians were very close related.

Although it’s true that the Cimmerians and Scythians sacked the Urartu (Hurrian) empire together with the Aryan Medes. But the Medes (ancestors of the Medes) destroyed Scytho-Cimmerian kings and threw out Scythians out of Kurdistan. True, Scythians were in Kurdistan, but Kurds are from the Medes. But I don’t deny that Kurds have some genetic input from the Scythians. And we have also some genetic input from the Urartu and Chaldeans at the time when they were Zoroastrians.
Urartu came originally from the Caucasus mountains. The ancient Assyrians came from the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula.
The Kurds (Matiene/Mitanni,Kassites, Gutians, Medes etc.) are the native inhabitants of Kurdistan (Northern Mesopotamia)!

You are arguing against a Ghost. Who actually claimed here that Medes and their successors the Parthians are not our ancestors, that you felt the need to start all this drama? The thing here is that there are Scythian and Cimmerian settlements throughout Kurdistan. You should know that there is not a single period of time where Medes were ever isolated from Scythian influx. Scythians did not only "raid" Urartu or Media, contrary they settled there and quite some time even ruled it. Urartians, Babylonians, Scythians and Medes united against Assyrians and were befriended quite some time.

If you knew something about medes or Media you would know that it compromised land and people of various background. Heredotus regards to Mitanni as the same as Medes. Cyrus regarded Gutium as part of Media. Thats not all according to Heredotus two of the six founding tribes among Medes are of Scythian background. Medes and Persians are related people so how the heck could you expect anything else than similarities?

However I already once explained you the relatively significant difference between Kurds and Persian on genetic, cultural and historic basis and do not want to role this all up again. Go and read it again on the Kurdish Forum.

Alan
24-07-14, 20:40
Also, how much mongoloid genetics is there in Kurdistan? The Girl here on the right looks Turkic.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7007/6588934289_e156513eb2_z.jpg
People of R* Haplogroup generally tend to show East Eurasian affinities in their looks. If you saw me in my child age you would think I have some East Eurasian ancestry but my genetic profile only shows 1% East Eurasian genes while the average Kurd has 1-2%. Interestingly in some calculators where there is an Amerindian component I show almost no Siberian or East Asian but 2.7% Amerindian. It is true that some Turkic groups have been integrated into the Kurdish community but it didn't effect the genetics significantly.

Alan
24-07-14, 20:43
what language did Urartians speak , anything known about that ?

Hurro_Urartians spoke a "isolated language", which could simply indiciate that they haven't figured it out yet. But it is believed to show similarities to Northeast Caucasic. And another special thing about Hurro_Urartians is that they show strong Indo_Iranian characteristics. We know that they had a strong connection to Indo_Iranian tribes.

Yetos
24-07-14, 21:49
Despite what Wikipedia says. Urartians are very unlikely proto-Armenians. claiming Urartians to be an ethnicity which didn't even existed so far back is based on chauvinistic viewpoint and has not much to do with science. Urartians are an "isolated group"(or yet unidentified). Armenians probably have some Urartian admixture but a Phrygian origin is allot more likely.

I supported the Brygian admixture in Kurds many times, it seems to exist but pure, if I remember correct,

Kurds is a strange case,

we know they are IE, but their inner name could be Summerian, the split to major tribes, could show many,
Histprically we find them as Καρδουχοι in Alexander's campaign near Zagros Mountains, big archers which tends to both Aryans (Αορ = bow) And Scythians (Skuda= shooter arrow)

The name kurds for me comes from either dancers (Κουρητες) or from Summerian Kur = mountain

their language is heavily Iranized, while their proto language could be an ancient PIE or Anatolian, or seems more correct for me a Georgio-Iranian.

Alan
24-07-14, 23:15
I supported the Brygian admixture in Kurds many times, it seems to exist but pure, if I remember correct,

Kurds is a strange case,

we know they are IE, but their inner name could be Summerian, the split to major tribes, could show many,
Histprically we find them as Καρδουχοι in Alexander's campaign near Zagros Mountains, big archers which tends to both Aryans (Αορ = bow) And Scythians (Skuda= shooter arrow)

The name kurds for me comes from either dancers (Κουρητες) or from Summerian Kur = mountain

their language is heavily Iranized, while their proto language could be an ancient PIE or Anatolian, or seems more correct for me a Georgio-Iranian.

There is Phrygian admixture in Kurds without a doubt (Balkan affinities are visible in J2b, Ev-13 and I2* levels) but it's just admixture. Corduene also known as Gordyene was a vasal state with people speaking an medic_Scythian language and beeing of Gutian origin while worshipping Teshub the Hurrian sky God as well the nature (Old Iranic nature religion) but the name of this vasal State is derived from the Phrygian capital Gordion.

The Phrygian admixture is one of the factors what connects Kurds and Armenians, but contrary to Kurds the Armenians are probably direct descends of the Phrygians while Kurds have just been affected by Phrygians.

We need to understand the meaning of Kurd.

Kurd (similar case with Turk) mean originally had this meaning. 1. it was a geographic term describing the mountainous region around Lake Van and mount Cudi modern day "Eastern Anatolia" and North Mesopotamia. 2. It was a synonym for proto Iranic nomad tribes. The Kurti from Lake Van are believed by some scientist to have been either Scythians or some proto_Iranic nomadic group. I even believe that the very name of Balkan Scythians, the Skudra derives from the word Kurd (nomadic mountain warrriors).

The Kurds started to call themselves Kurd more recently, instead when you asked a Kurd in his language what ethnicity he is, he usually asnwered as Kurmanj/Kirmanj (Kur= again association with mountains ?) or Goran, which means herder of the mountains (again association with mountains Gor = Kur? since an is addition to names and tribes in Iranic) or Zoran because Kurdistan (Land of mountains?) was more a geographic description.

Some people believe that the term Kurd, Kur derive from the Gutians who were also known and described as mountainous people. Some people even believe that the word Kur for mountain in Sumerian was inspired by the ethnic name of the Gutians who came into contact with Sumerians.


My own hypothesis is this. Until now there is no single evidence that the Medes penetrated into Kurdistan directly from East. Instead there are historical records that they settled in the Zagros mountains coming from West. If there was a migration from the Steppes into Kurdistan than it was likely in form of Gutians who first setted around Lake Van (coming from East or through the Caucasus mountains) and later spred around the region. I believe these Kur people in North Kurdistan were the early Gutians and they were identical (the same) as the Kurti of Lake Van. Among some of the names used for Gutians are Qardu, Kardu Karda, Qurti, Kuti, Guti and Kurti probably belongs to this list. They and the Urartians were described as fair featured (compared to the darker haired South Mesopotamians). I even go that far and claim the very name of Urartu is derived from the Kardu form of the Gutians. I believe that the Gutians are those Indo-Iranians of Mitanni who became the Medes when Assyrians captured Mitanni.


Think about it when the Gutians dissapear in the history books, suddenly the Mitanni appear, when Mitanni dissapear suddenly Medes appear. I even have historic confirmation for my hypothesis. Cyrus generally associates the Medes with Gutians. He goes so far and calls all Medes simply Gutians. Heredotus on the other sees the Medes and the early Mitannis as the same people.

Only one source

In the first millennium BC, the term "Gutium" was used to refer to the region between the Zagros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagros_Mountains) and the Tigris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris), also known as western Media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes). All tribes to the east and northeast who often had hostile relations with the peoples of lowland Mesopotamia, were referred to as Gutian [11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutian_people#cite_note-iranicagutians-11) or Guti. Assyrian royal annals use the term Gutians to refer to Iranian populations otherwise known as Medes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes) or Mannaeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannae); and as late as the reign of Cyrus the Great (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great) of Persia, the famous general Gubaru (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gubaru) (Gobryas) was described as the "governor of Gutium".

Vinnie
24-07-14, 23:31
People of R* Haplogroup generally tend to show East Eurasian affinities in their looks. If you saw me in my child age you would think I have some East Eurasian ancestry but my genetic profile only shows 1% East Eurasian genes while the average Kurd has 1-2%. Interestingly in some calculators where there is an Amerindian component I show no Siberian, East Asian but 2.7% Amerindian. It is true that some Turkic groups have been integrated into the Kurdish community but it didn't effect the genetics significantly.

OK thanks. I do see differences between Turkish Kurds and the Sorani speaking ones from Iraq in appearance. I haven't seen much Syrians, so my experience on classifying them is very limited. The Kurds of Iraq often remind me of being similar in posture to some Afghans. Same type of body and skull maybe, but Kurds seem shorter on average compare to Afghans. Both are Iranids so this would be ofcourse an explanation.

Vinnie
24-07-14, 23:36
There is Phrygian admixture in Kurds without a doubt (Balkan affinities are visible in J2b, Ev-13 and I2* levels) but it's more restricted to Northern Kurds. Corduene also known as Gordyene was a vasal state with people speaking an medic_Scythian language and beeing of Gutian origin while worshipping Teshub the Hurrian sky God as well the nature (Old Iranic nature religion) but the name of this vasal State is derived from the Phrygian capital Gordion.

The Phrygian and Urartian admixture is what connects Kurds and Armenians, but contrary to Kurds the Armenians are probably direct descends of the Phrygians.

We need to understand the meaning of Kurd.

Kurd (similar case with Turk) mean originally had this meaning. 1. it was a geographic term describing the mountainous region around Lake Van and mount Cudi modern day "Eastern Anatolia" and North Mesopotamia. 2. It was a synonym for proto Iranic nomad tribes. The Kurti from Lake Van are believed by some scientist to have been either Scythians or some proto_Iranic nomadic group. I even believe that the very name of Balkan Scythians, the Skudra derives from the word Kurd (nomadic warrriors).

The Kurds themselves just recently started to call themselves Kurd, instead when you asked a Kurd in his language what ethnicity he is, he usually asnwered as Kurmanj/Kirmanj (Kur= again association with mountains ?) or Goran, which means herder of the mountains (again association with mountains Gor = Kur? since an is addition to names and tribes in Iranic) or Zoran.

Some people believe that the term Kurd, Kur derive from the Gutians who were also known as described as mountainous people. Some people even believe that the word Kur for mountain in Sumerian was inspired by the ethnic name of the Gutians who came into contact with Sumerians.


My own hypothesis is this. Until now there is no single evidence that the Medes penetrated into Kurdistan from East. Instead there are historical records that they settled in the Zagros mountains coming from West. If there was a migration from the Steppes into Kurdistan than it was likely through the Caucasus. I believe these Kur people in North Kurdistan were the early Gutians and they were identical (the same) as the Kurti of Lake Van. Among some of the names used for Gutians are Qardu, Kardu Karda, Qurti, Kuti, Guti and Kurti probably belongs to this list. They and the Urartians were described as fair featured (compared to the darker haired South Mesopotamians). I even go that far and claim the very name of Urartu is derived from the Kardu form of the Gutians. I believe that the Gutians are those Indo-Iranians of Mitanni who became the Medes when Assyrians captured Mitanni.


Think about it when the Gutians dissapear in the history books, suddenly the Mitanni appear, when Mitanni dissapear suddenly Medes appear. I even have historic confirmation for my hypothesis. Cyrus generally associates the Medes with Gutians. He goes so far and calls all Medes simply Gutians. Heredotus on the other sees the Medes and the early Mitannis as the same people.


Kuh in Persian literally means mountain. For instance "Hindu Kush" in Afghanistan region was actually derived from the Persian: Mountain of Indians, this is the correct explanation.

Alan
25-07-14, 09:07
Kuh in Persian literally means mountain. For instance "Hindu Kush" in Afghanistan region was actually derived from the Persian: Mountain of Indians, this is the correct explanation.


Thanks, I Didn't know that, another evidence for my hypothesis. That Kur in meaning is an association with Mountains and nomadic mountain herders.

There is even an old saying among Kurds. "No Friends but the mountains".

Yetos
25-07-14, 22:14
Kuh in Persian literally means mountain. For instance "Hindu Kush" in Afghanistan region was actually derived from the Persian: Mountain of Indians, this is the correct explanation.

just for fun accept the spell ....
do you know what afganistan means?
or an alternative explanation for Indokush or Indos India,

ebAmerican
25-07-14, 23:00
Land of the horseman from the word Ashvaka - Sanskrit ashva: horse ashvaka horseman -wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_(ethnonym)

Vinnie
26-07-14, 05:33
just for fun accept the spell ....
do you know what afganistan means?
or an alternative explanation for Indokush or Indos India,

India, land of the river Indus = Sindh = Hind

oldeuropeanculture
13-08-14, 22:24
There are significant linguistic links between Serbian and old dialects of Armenian (Nagorno). A lot of old Armenian words have etymologies in Serbian...I2a is definitely a link.

Also this is very interesting:

By far most Evroasian people use Milk or cow, sheep way metaphor to describe our galaxy. All of these names for our galaxy which are linked to milk have root in nomadic herding people. The second most common metaphor used in Evroasia to describe our galaxy is birds way. This is again linked to migration.

But in Serbo Croatian, Persian, Arabic, Turkish, Armenian, Kirgiz, Uighur, Uzbek, Chechen tradition, the metaphor for our galaxy is linked to straw, hay. What is connection between these people?