New Archaiological discoverie in Makedonian tomps, could be Great Alexander's family?

the link

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/psixagog...s_sxetizetai_me_ton_m_aleksandro.2967620.html

I wrote about that about 2-3 years ago,
a big tomp with a perimeter or 500 m made by pure white Thasos marble stones, not plates, of excellent quality was discovered,
due to crisis the excavations were stoped and went with slow rythm and the area is guarded heavily by citizens, police even military.
today we know that is the only ancient tomp with fence in the perimeter!!!!




we know that is about 320-300 BC meaning the times of Roxane was living there, and his son Alexander the 4rth.
part of the marble perimeter was destroyed by Romans,

the next by Amphipolis Lion seems to was a sign to that tomb, in fact was part of the perimeter,
but seems someone moved it in purpose, altough the symbols in both Lion and tomb are the same.




here is the estimation by architects of how it was built



at a height of 5.20 m,

the excavations are working with very slow rythms,
rumors say that it is roxane's tomb,
other that is a dedication of Phillip to his men, but the building time is much later

it will take years and years until we know for certain,

Just think, what can be found.

it seems like fever run all over Makedonian scientists,
Archaiologists and Architects arrive from all over the world,
the name of the Architect that made the tomp is finnaly anounced,
He was Δεινοκρατης ο Ροδιος (Dinocrates from Rodos) a personal friend of Alexander the great,the builder of Alexandreia (Egypt)

that is the top of the tomp where the lion statue should be, if Romans did not moved it,



Stone elements of the tomp that Romans moved next by.



the outside perimeter,



view by air,

the new rumors say that there is chance to find an Alexander's admiral tomp, except the case of Roxane,
or a tomp dedicated to bury Alexander build by Roxane,

it will take years but seems something archaiological 'big' is there so as to be guarded by 200 armed police at least and who knows how many civilians and military

PS
if is Roxane's tomp, is our only chance to find Alexander's DNA since his wife and Son should be there.

Newly Discovered Ancient Greek Tomb

What are everyone's thoughts on the newly discovered ancient greek tomb from the time of Alexander the Great, will we finally have a definitive answer as to which Y DNA Haplogroup the ancient greeks belonged? There doesn't appear to be any plans for DNA testing of the remains yet...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ins-senior-official-time-Alexander-Great.html

Personally I see it like this:

Plesagians: G2a
Myceneans: E1b
Dorians: J2

I predict any DNA testing to come up with E1b, you heard it here!!

this will only reveal the Y DNA of the Macedonian elite at that time

anyway my guess :
Mycenians : R1b-L23
Dorians : R1b-L11
Pelask : E1b and J2b

There have been a number of situations where interesting discoveries have been made by archeologists, discoveries that included human remains, but there was no mention of any attempt to collect DNA results. I don't know whether they just conclude in such cases that there's too much contamination to get viable DNA results or whether some archeologists are indifferent to or actively hostile to the idea of drawing conclusions about a site on the basis of DNA results. I wonder whether some archeologists think that conclusions about ancient sites should be based solely on an examination of the artifacts rather than having people from another disciple (genetics) reaching certain conclusions based on testing of the human remains. I know some archeologists work closely with geneticists but perhaps some don't.

motzart said:

What are everyone's thoughts on the newly discovered ancient greek tomb from the time of Alexander the Great, will we finally have a definitive answer as to which Y DNA Haplogroup the ancient greeks belonged? There doesn't appear to be any plans for DNA testing of the remains yet...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ins-senior-official-time-Alexander-Great.html

Personally I see it like this:

Plesagians: G2a
Myceneans: E1b
Dorians: J2

I predict any DNA testing to come up with E1b, you heard it here!!

Click to expand...

We have to wait if there are human remains at all! Greeks did not practice mummifying so its possible everything is eaten by bacteria's.
If they find any remains I would be no surprised to cluster preGermanic I. Macedonians were not Hellens which I believe were J1+j2a+g2a majority,

albanopolis said:

We have to wait if there are human remains at all! Greeks did not practice mummifying so its possible everything is eaten by bacteria's.
If they find any remains I would be no surprised to cluster preGermanic I. Macedonians were not Hellens which I believe were J1+j2a+g2a majority,

Click to expand...

Quite the oposite

Makedonians and Argeiads belong to the Dorians/ Aeolians, not the Achaians, their early name is Ellimians Ελλιμιοι = Eel people same

Posibilities are for
G2a
R1b
AND DON"T BE SURPRISED R1a which is 24% in Makedonia and is following Dorians from Trikke to South Greece (doris 14%, Peloponese 14%) to Italy 8% to cyprus etc etc
BESIDES IF YOU WANT TO FIND ARGEIADS DNA YOU CAN FIND IT BY PHILLIP THE 2nd

Surely not E1b1b1 cause came to Makedonian and Central Balkans much after the fall of Makedonian Kingdom

I will keep post photos since in Greece we live the madness of the tomp and the fever of earthquakes

the tomp entrance,



the sphinxs





move of the stones at entrance









the marble entrance door, bellow sphinxs frasco and paint of black blue red





Until now arcaiologists do not know if the tomp was opened in antique by romans when they moved the lion,
surely we do not know to whom the tomb belongs,
most scientists spoke about 2 possibilities,
1. Roxanes and young Alexander's the 4rth,
2. Nearchos and other Alexander's generals admirals

the possibility to belong to Alexander him shelf is almost none,
the possibility to be a tomp dedicated to Alexander, an empty tomb, is open

The entrance.





inside the προθαλαμος the hall







interesting is the opinion of the author of «Alexander's Tomb: The Two-Thousand Year Obsession to Find the Lost Conquerer»,
Nickolas Saunders, who believes primary what I also believe,
the tomp belongs to Nearchos,

and secondary to Kleopatra or Roxane

What are the chances that some of those "old" haplogroups could have subclades that are yet undiscovered? For example J2b1 or E-V13. Into something like E-V13a, E-V13b, etc ?

Yetos said:

Quite the oposite

Makedonians and Argeiads belong to the Dorians/ Aeolians, not the Achaians, their early name is Ellimians Ελλιμιοι = Eel people same

Posibilities are for
G2a
R1b
AND DON"T BE SURPRISED R1a which is 24% in Makedonia and is following Dorians from Trikke to South Greece (doris 14%, Peloponese 14%) to Italy 8% to cyprus etc etc
BESIDES IF YOU WANT TO FIND ARGEIADS DNA YOU CAN FIND IT BY PHILLIP THE 2nd

Surely not E1b1b1 cause came to Makedonian and Central Balkans much after the fall of Makedonian Kingdom

Click to expand...

Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens?
I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.

albanopolis said:

Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens?
I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.

Click to expand...

And E-V13 is most frequent among Hellens? Or is it frequent throughout the Balkans and can include non Hellen Greeks and non Greeks in general?

John Doe said:

And E-V13 is most frequent among Hellens? Or is it frequent throughout the Balkans and can include non Hellen Greeks and non Greeks in general?

Click to expand...

My educated guess is that there was a relation between Thracian and Illyrian populations with Macedonians of antiquity. As far as I have read that relation was not too distant,
Since both Thracians and Illyrians cluster predominantly E v13 there is greater chance of Alexander being E v13. But again just an educated guess, nothing scientific. Its a good chance of him being preGermanic I since Macedonians since the present day population of that region today ha a higher percentage of that haplogroup,

albanopolis said:

My educated guess is that there was a relation between Thracian and Illyrian populations with Macedonians of antiquity. As far as I have read that relation was not too distant,
Since both Thracians and Illyrians cluster predominantly E v13 there is greater chance of Alexander being E v13. But again just an educated guess, nothing scientific. Its a good chance of him being preGermanic I since Macedonians since the present day population of that region today ha a higher percentage of that haplogroup,

Click to expand...

Alright. And Hellenes have a higher chance of being J2?

albanopolis said:

Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens?
I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.

Click to expand...

The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς

Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad from the Karanos dynasty, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.

what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.

Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,


now about the crup you are writting,



THIS IS PELLA KATADESMOS. KATADESMOS IS A LOW CLASS SPELL, MEANS COMMON PEOPLE, NOT KINGS, SO YOUR ARGUEMENTS JUST BUFF IN THIN AIR,
IT IS DATED MUCH BEFORE PHILLIP,

now take back your Panalbanism theories, and ask back the money you pay for this crup-books you bought, you were informed wrong.

the katadesmos is found at 1986, so all you mention are just crup, cause the evidence speaks for it shelf,

Muller 1825 and Bonfante 1987 are before the discovery of katadesmos and the rest new found of Makedonian nation by archaiologist,

IF YOU TO CONVICE US BY A BOOK OF 1825,
THAT ALEXANDER WAS ILLYRIAN AND IGNORE ALL THE NEW ARCHAIOLOGICAL EVIDENCES that found even Today, AND older HESYCHIUS LEXIKON,
THEN YOU DISERVE YOUR FAITH

is that what you teach your children in Albania? that Alexander was Albanian? PFFFFFFF


end of discussion,
your dogma is wrong, supported by your will, not by truth.
your 'scientific' theories is like the times of scientists used liches to cure cancer.

As I said I am posting what ever new I find until the tomp is finished.

Yetos said:

The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς

Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad from the Karanos dynasty, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.

what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.

Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,


now about the crup you are writting,

THIS IS PELLA KATADESMOS. KATADESMOS IS A LOW CLASS SPELL, MEANS COMMON PEOPLE, NOT KINGS, SO YOUR ARGUEMENTS JUST BUFF IN THIN AIR,
IT IS DATED MUCH BEFORE PHILLIP,

now take back your Panalbanism theories, and ask back the money you pay for this crup-books you bought, you were informed wrong.

the katadesmos is found at 1986, so all you mention are just crup, cause the evidence speaks for it shelf,

Muller 1825 and Bonfante 1987 are before the discovery of katadesmos and the rest new found of Makedonian nation by archaiologist,

IF YOU TO CONVICE US BY A BOOK OF 1825,
THAT ALEXANDER WAS ILLYRIAN AND IGNORE ALL THE NEW ARCHAIOLOGICAL EVIDENCES that found even Today, AND older HESYCHIUS LEXIKON,
THEN YOU DISERVE YOUR FAITH

is that what you teach your children in Albania? that Alexander was Albanian? PFFFFFFF


end of discussion,
your dogma is wrong, supported by your will, not by truth.
your 'scientific' theories is like the times of scientists used liches to cure cancer.

Click to expand...

Keep reading Greek Government books and you will be a laughing stock in the west.
How many times I have to repeat to you that Albanians did not write their language until 1500 ad. So, to discover our antique history we refer to written history by antique Greek historians and Roman historians.
And surprise, what they say is that Grandmother of Alexander or Mother of Philip I was an Illyrian. Her name was Euridice. And another big surprise the mother of Alexander Olympia was an Epirote princes. Epirotes are an Illyrian tribe. So right here Alexander comes 75% Illyrian stock.
Now the question comes was Alexander culturally Illyrian? And the right answer will be: No.
All written records show that he was heavily influenced by Hellenic culture. Nobody is contesting that.
When Alexander was in danger of being killed when he was a teenager guess where Olympia send him for safety?
The answer is Illyria? He was living in Illyria and his name was Leonida. Why in Illyria? I let you answer this question.

John Doe said:

Alright. And Hellenes have a higher chance of being J2?

Click to expand...

Hellens by the time they arrived in present place we call Greece could have been more than one haplogroup. But as you are saying they were predominantly J2 and R.
They have exchanged a lot with Arabs and Phoenicians.
Hellens were noticed for their fine see ships and its universally known that the inventors of see going ships were Arabs. So Hellens were in close proximity with Arabs and learned from them shipbuilding.
Greek alphabet is an improved copy of Phoenician alphabet, so Phoenicians and Hellen were living side by side.
Greek language shows heavy borrowings from Arabs ans Phoenicians.

Yetos said:

The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς

Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad from the Karanos dynasty, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.

what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.

Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,


now about the crup you are writting,

THIS IS PELLA KATADESMOS. KATADESMOS IS A LOW CLASS SPELL, MEANS COMMON PEOPLE, NOT KINGS, SO YOUR ARGUEMENTS JUST BUFF IN THIN AIR,
IT IS DATED MUCH BEFORE PHILLIP,

now take back your Panalbanism theories, and ask back the money you pay for this crup-books you bought, you were informed wrong.

the katadesmos is found at 1986, so all you mention are just crup, cause the evidence speaks for it shelf,

Muller 1825 and Bonfante 1987 are before the discovery of katadesmos and the rest new found of Makedonian nation by archaiologist,

IF YOU TO CONVICE US BY A BOOK OF 1825,
THAT ALEXANDER WAS ILLYRIAN AND IGNORE ALL THE NEW ARCHAIOLOGICAL EVIDENCES that found even Today, AND older HESYCHIUS LEXIKON,
THEN YOU DISERVE YOUR FAITH

is that what you teach your children in Albania? that Alexander was Albanian? PFFFFFFF


end of discussion,
your dogma is wrong, supported by your will, not by truth.
your 'scientific' theories is like the times of scientists used liches to cure cancer.

Click to expand...

This book is written by Ulrich Wilken, member of the Academy of science of Germany. The author died of natural causes around 1930. Its available in English translation in American bookstores. If he doesn't say that mother and grandmother of Alexander was Illyrian then I will publicly apologize to the members of this forum. If you say that the book is biased and its content is not true I will like to repeat that the author was at the time Member of German academy of science.

albanopolis said:

Hellens by the time they arrived in present place we call Greece could have been more than one haplogroup. But as you are saying they were predominantly J2 and R.
They have exchanged a lot with Arabs and Phoenicians.
Hellens were noticed for their fine see ships and its universally known that the inventors of see going ships were Arabs. So Hellens were in close proximity with Arabs and learned from them shipbuilding.
Greek alphabet is an improved copy of Phoenician alphabet, so Phoenicians and Hellen were living side by side.
Greek language shows heavy borrowings from Arabs ans Phoenicians.

Click to expand...

you are so provocative, but you know nothing,

THE GREEK ALPHABET IS ΚΥΜΗ CYME ALPHABET,
THE ALPHABET THAT YOU USE, THE LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVASION OF GREEKS,
SIMPLY LATER GREEKS ADOPT THE PHOENICIAN.

Its name refers to the peninsula of Cyme in Euboea. The colony was also the entry point in the Italian peninsula for the Euboean alphabet, the local variant of the Greek alphabet used by its colonists, a variant of which was adapted and modified by the Etruscans and then by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet still used worldwide today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumae

your hate blind you,
DO YOU LEARN YOUR CHILDREN IMN ALBANIA SUCH CRUP?


UNDERSTAND IT, THERE IS NO LATIN ALPHABET, ONLY GREEK AND PHOENICIAN.

Perhaps in Albania since you claim that you are homeland of Dorians can explain us why?
why you adopted Greek Alphabet at 1500 AD?
cause you were not even there,
EVEN THRACIANS ADOPTED GREEK OR PHOENICAIN AT 400 BC, AND SLAVS CYRIILIC AT 800 AD
THAT INDICATES THAT YOUR MASSIVE POPULATION WAS NOT LOCAL BALKANIC.

now tell us, plz
At your schools you teach you teach your children the Muller 1825 theory that Alexander was Illyrian although all discoveries from 1825 and after show the opposite?

Have ever heard what is found centuries after Muller, and simply is same with what Hesychius of Alexandreia wrote in Lexicon?
I guess not,
but simply
In Greek schools we teach that Alexander was Makedonian, and as Makedonian was Hellen, 'Ο ΜΕΓΙΣΤΟΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ'
tell us in your schools what you teach? Alexander the Greatest of Illyrians?