Henges - Rondel enclosures

oldeuropeanculture

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Stonehenge is a prehistoric monument in Wiltshire, England. One of the most famous sites in the world, Stonehenge is the remains of a ring of standing stones set within earthworks. Archaeologists believe it was built from about 3000 BC to 2000 BC. The original structure was a henge which is a circular bank and ditch enclosure, measuring about 110 metres (360 ft) in diameter, with a large entrance to the north east and a smaller one to the south. It has been dated to about 3100 BC.

What most people don't know is that almost 2000 years earlier, the same types of henges were built in central Europe where they are called rondel enclosures. Henges, rondel enclosures originate in the middle Danube area and Morava area. From there they have spread northward towards south Baltic finally reaching Saxony and Pomeranija. This means that the culture that built these megalithic structures came from Central Europe and reached the British Isles via south Baltic, and specifically Elbe region, Pomerania, Pomorje, the land of Fomori.

Rondel enclosure, henge structures are mostly interpreted as having served a cultic purpose. Most of them are aligned and seem to have served the function of a calendar, in the context of archaeoastronomy sometimes dubbed "observatory", with openings aligned with the points sunrise and/or sunset at the solstices. This is the case with the "gates" or openings of the roundels of Quenstedt, Goseck and Quedlinburg as well as in Stonehenge. The observational determination of the time of solstice would have served a practical (agricultural) purpose. It could have been used to maintain a lunisolar calendar. The accurate knowledge of the date of solstice allows an accurate handling of intercalary months and determining the the correct date for agricultural activities such as plowing, sawing and harvesting.

http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2014/03/henges-rondel-enclosures.html
 
The Maltese temples predate Stonehenge by a thousand years according to current carbon dating techniques. They also have openings aligned with the points sunrise and/or sunset at the solstices. Statutes and statues of the mother earth godess where found in the temples. Gobekli tepe is considered to be the oldest temple now, but not sure if it comes from the same cult


You can read this:- http://www.ancient-origins.net/news...s-malta-still-oldest-ones-world-00369#!bD0TBz I hope you find it interesting.
 
Thanks Maleth

The henges were i believe first and foremost solar observatories, and only then solar temples. The Malta temples are stone structures wheres henges are ditch and bank structures. The Stone henge became Stone henge much later...As i explain in my article...
 
This could also be possible. However the local temples have some sort of connection with solar observations (in relation to agriculture) and could have been used for the purpose. There are more studies underway at present with Queens Univerity of Belfast and the local one.

If only the bones found on site could be tested for dna, then one can compare with dna found in Stonehenge, but dna information is never an easy subject and dna information is not always easy to come by.

http://www.world-archaeology.com/travel/malta-for-the-summer-solstice-at-mnajdra-temple.htm
 
The Maltese temples predate Stonehenge by a thousand years according to current carbon dating techniques. They also have openings aligned with the points sunrise and/or sunset at the solstices. Statutes and statues of the mother earth godess where found in the temples. Gobekli tepe is considered to be the oldest temple now, but not sure if it comes from the same cult


You can read this:- http://www.ancient-origins.net/news...s-malta-still-oldest-ones-world-00369#!bD0TBz I hope you find it interesting.

Jacques BRIARD and others said first traces of human occupation in Malta are from about 5000 BC but that the first temples of the island were from 3500 BC (calibred radiocarbon datation) -
in parallele we have the first dolmens and big tumuli with tholos (Barnenez, Brittany) on the Atlantic shores which are dated from the 4000 BC or even a bit earlier, what could confirm a way through North Europe to the northern seas and not only through Mediterranea...
 
Jacques BRIARD and others said first traces of human occupation in Malta are from about 5000 BC but that the first temples of the island were from 3500 BC (calibred radiocarbon datation) -
in parallele we have the first dolmens and big tumuli with tholos (Barnenez, Brittany) on the Atlantic shores which are dated from the 4000 BC or even a bit earlier, what could confirm a way through North Europe to the northern seas and not only through Mediterranea...

That is correct the Tumuli may even be older than 4000BC. And Stonehenge could be more related to the rondels of the danube. Im referring the Megalithic temples of Malta as a complex building structure (earliest Ta Hagrat 3600BC) co-related with solar observations, religious ritual (of some sort)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ta%27_%C4%A6a%C4%A1rat_Temples


According to archeologists


*)Dolmens are kind of two upright stones usually consisting of two or more upright supporting a large flat horizontal capstone that normally marked an entrance to a single chamber tomb. (which has weathered and left the standing stones) As you say they date from the early (4000 to 3000 BC).


*)Tumuli are mounds of soil and stones which are raised over graves which are found all over Europe and possibly can go back to 5000BC


*)The Rondels (as oldeuropeculture stated) imitated in the Danube area predate Stonehenge by maybe more than a thousand years (a good indication to were the Stonehenge cult is derived)

However what I found obscure is that first people arrived on Malta from Sicily 5000BC (according to pottery similarities found of the era) however dolmens in Sicily are carbon dated (if not mistaken) between 3000 and 2000BC and no Megalithic temples are found.

What is also strange that a body found buried near Stonehenge was of Mediterranean origins (unless the theory has changed) and some stones found in Maltese Temples is only found in the Alps. So IF this is all correct it seems that people traveled around much more then we think!......
 
As for the origin of European megaliths this might help:

This stone circle was recently discovered in Bulgaria and it has been dated to 6000 bc. This places this stone circle at the same place and same time as Vinca civilization. Are Copper and Megaliths connected? Did ancient copper miners build megaliths?

Templul-Soarelui-Bulgaria.jpg

6,000 B.C. - Sun Temple? / Bulgaria - "Bulgarian archaeologist Georgi Ganetsovski has made a new hit discovering by unearthing what might be the world's oldest sun temple. [NP] The team of Georgi Ganetsovski, an archaeologist from the Vratsa Regional History Museum, who specializes in paleolithic settlements, has uncovered a structure similar in function to the Stonehenge in the UK but is 3 000 years older than it. [NP] The 8000-year-old structure has been found near the village of Ohoden, Vratsa District, Northwestern Bulgaria. [....] Ganetsovski has been excavating the site near Ohoden for years, which is believed to harbor important remains from the first agricultural communities in Europe; over the summer he found an 8000-year-old skeleton of a young man dubbed by the media 'The First European.' [....]" [Based on: Archaeology News article (Bulgarian Archaeologist Discovers World's Likely Oldest Sun Temple) December 16, 2010]

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=123253

I mentioned that I believe that sun circles were used to fix lunar calendar by fixing the beginning of the solar year to either winter of summer solstice. You can read about how it is done here:

In the mountains of the Balkans, up until the end of the 20th century, shepherds carried with them a calendar stick. It was a stick with a notch cut into it for every day of the year and a cross or some other symbol for major holy days, which in Serbia are all linked to major agricultural events and major solar cycle events. At the end of every day a piece of the stick up to the first notch, representing the previous day, was cut off from the stick. When the last piece was cut, the year was over.

Is it possible that this calendar is the remnant of the ancient European lunisolar calendar which was devised by the builders of the first Central European henges 7000 years ago?

You can read more here

http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.com/2014/06/calendar.html
 
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The Elbe-Saale henges are ascribed to the stroke-ornamented pottery culture (4,900-4,600 BC). So, they are roughly contemporary with the Maltese structures (which I personally feel are much more impressive than Stonehenge), and predate Stonehenge by more than 2,000 years. Interestingly, their construction starts after the so-called 5.1 ky cold event, a period of reduced solar activity. The Elbe-Saale henges were either used continuously until the late 3rd millennium BC, or "re-discovered" around 3,300 BC. Whatever one thinks about reconstructions, they give at least an impression how the original construction may have looked (Goseck circle):
Goseck-Circle.jpg


An origin on the Balkans (Bulgaria) is plausible, considering that early Central European farmers (LBK) originated there, and have been followed by additional migration waves up the Danube / Morava/ Elbe / Oder. Stonehenge may be considered as a merger of Central European / Danubian astronomic circles, and Atlantic (Britanny?/ SW Mediterranean?) Menhir Megalithic. Note in this respect that during the 3rd millennium BC, Menhirs also made it from Brittany to the Elbe (though locals there were obviously happy with wooden observatory constructions).
Doelauer%20Jungfrau3.jpg
190px-Menhir_Eichstaedter-Warte.jpg
 
As for the origin of European megaliths this might help:

This stone circle was recently discovered in Bulgaria and it has been dated to 6000 bc. This places this stone circle at the same place and same time as Vinca civilization. Are Copper and Megaliths connected? Did ancient copper miners build megaliths?

View attachment 6532

6,000 B.C. - Sun Temple? / Bulgaria - "Bulgarian archaeologist Georgi Ganetsovski has made a new hit discovering by unearthing what might be the world's oldest sun temple. [NP] The team of Georgi Ganetsovski, an archaeologist from the Vratsa Regional History Museum, who specializes in paleolithic settlements, has uncovered a structure similar in function to the Stonehenge in the UK but is 3 000 years older than it. [NP] The 8000-year-old structure has been found near the village of Ohoden, Vratsa District, Northwestern Bulgaria. [....] Ganetsovski has been excavating the site near Ohoden for years, which is believed to harbor important remains from the first agricultural communities in Europe; over the summer he found an 8000-year-old skeleton of a young man dubbed by the media 'The First European.' [....]" [Based on: Archaeology News article (Bulgarian Archaeologist Discovers World's Likely Oldest Sun Temple) December 16, 2010]

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=123253

I mentioned that I believe that sun circles were used to fix lunar calendar by fixing the beginning of the solar year to either winter of summer solstice. You can read about how it is done here:

interesting, though I don't believe in a connection between copper and megaliths, but in a connection between the milk revolution and megaliths

http://www.nature.com/news/archaeology-the-milk-revolution-1.13471

the milk revolution, production of dairy products started in Anatolia and spread via the Danube through Lyngel culture to Scandinavia (funnelbeaker) and England.
construction of megaliths along the north Atlantic coast began with the spread of agriculture into England
a byproduct of the dairy cattle were oxens, draught animals which might have been used for the construction of the monuments
 
I think Sun Circles are directly linked with cereal agriculture and related solar cults. But i believe that they are in some way linked to copper as well. I am still working on this, but this is where everything is pointing to. I don't think this has anything to do with cattle herders. They are by definition migrants, and dispersed thinly over vast areas, due to the nature of cattle grazing and herding. So first they have no incentive to build permanent anything, and second they have no manpower to do it. To build a large megalithic complex you need lots of people living in the same small place for a long time. Cattle will eat all the grass in the area and will need to move long before any work can be done....But farmers a stationary, linked to the land, and with a lot of time on their hands between agricultural work. With small holds having few animals of every kind, like subsistence farmer always did, they were perfectly able to perform building megalithic sites in their neighborhood.
 
I think Sun Circles are directly linked with cereal agriculture and related solar cults. But i believe that they are in some way linked to copper as well. I am still working on this, but this is where everything is pointing to. I don't think this has anything to do with cattle herders. They are by definition migrants, and dispersed thinly over vast areas, due to the nature of cattle grazing and herding. So first they have no incentive to build permanent anything, and second they have no manpower to do it. To build a large megalithic complex you need lots of people living in the same small place for a long time. Cattle will eat all the grass in the area and will need to move long before any work can be done....But farmers a stationary, linked to the land, and with a lot of time on their hands between agricultural work. With small holds having few animals of every kind, like subsistence farmer always did, they were perfectly able to perform building megalithic sites in their neighborhood.
For any direct relation to copper, henges in the Danub/Ebe area, and in Bulgaria have emerged almost a millennium to early.
Cattle herding isn't necessarily a migratory activity. The traditional Central European system has been wood pasture, which allows cattle to also graze leaves, while pigs feed on acorn, chestnut and beechnut. The effect is gradual deforestation, which is initially even desired as it opens up additional farmland. On the medium term, however, it increases soil erosion, which actually appears to have happened around 5,000 BC when the climate got wetter. People reacted with seasonal migration, i.e. summer herding in mountain areas - not only in the Alps, but also in the Central European low mountain ranges. In autumn, the herds are thinned out by slaughtering young male animals.
Such a cycle fits perfectly with wooden henges - at (or shortly after) the spring equinox, the cattle is gathered there before being driven up the mountains by the community. At the autumn equinox, when the herds have returned, the henges serve as community slaughterhouse, including collective meat pickling and subsequent festivities. At some enclosures in the Elbe-Saale region, several pits that obviously served for boiling pork and cattle in brine have been excavated. The fact that the region is rich in salt springs has obviously helped here.
Salt is anyway indispensable for cattle herding. Once you have come to a location with salt springs (which usually also means some nearby salt meadows that can't be farmed, but are perfect for cattle grazing), you settle there. Even if the cattle is driven over longer distances, you will regularly have it coming back for its salt intake. Later, of course, salt also turns out to be a perfect trade commodity, and it comes in handy for ore smelting and glazing pottery.
 
For any direct relation to copper, henges in the Danub/Ebe area, and in Bulgaria have emerged almost a millennium to early.

First henges 5th millenium bc. First stone circle Bulgaria 6th millennium bc. Vinca Plocnik 6th millennium bc. First agricultural temple in Europe Blagoten, Serbia 6th millennium bc....
 
Cattle herding isn't necessarily a migratory activity. The traditional Central European system has been wood pasture, which allows cattle to also graze leaves, while pigs feed on acorn, chestnut and beechnut.

This is not herding. This is subsistence farming. It still exists in Central Europe. As you described it, it can involve limited vertical migrations (valley - mountain) but it is not nomadic type of herding we find in Evroasian steppe. People have stationary dwellings and depend on agriculture as well as husbandry. The big flocks of sheep are gathered from small farms in the valleys and are taken to the mountains for the summer by few shepherds and dogs. We can have shepherd communities on highlands like in the Balkans, but they live surrounded by the agricultural communities in the valleys. So we have mixed agricultural - pastoral population. The highland shepherds communities are also stationary. They stay withing their tribal limits.
 
Cattle herding isn't necessarily a migratory activity. The traditional Central European system has been wood pasture, which allows cattle to also graze leaves, while pigs feed on acorn, chestnut and beechnut. The effect is gradual deforestation, which is initially even desired as it opens up additional farmland.

I have a first hand experience in this type of farming and the effect it has on forests and fields. I could observe directly the effect hundreds of pigs and thousands of sheep have on forests. Cattle can not graze in forests. There simply isn't enough food for them in forests. Goats can cause more damage, but still they can not affect any full grown tree. Grazing domestic animals, regardless of their numbers, have no deforestation effect. They can't eat cellulose. So they will eat saplings and leaves they can reach. They will keep undergrowth in check, but they can not by themselves cause deforestation. Deforestation can either be caused by man, or by climate change or by combination of both. One forest is gone, grazing animals will prevent it from re-spreading into the fields.
 
This is very interesting. Can you get me some links on this or additional data please. Dates and locations...
Its in German, you will have to translate it:
http://www.archaeologie-online.de/m...lz-und-poekelfleisch-in-der-bronzezeit-31234/
Bronze-age walled enclosure near Köthen, 20 oven pits (2x1m), stone-packed with heating traces. Salt-works nearby, pig bones excavated. It's brand new (published this month), excavation and evaluation (C14 dating etc.) still on-going. I had only glimpsed over it before. So there is evidence of larger-scale slaughtering and meat conservation, but so far not for the mid-Neolithic, when the first henges were erected.

http://www.geschkult.fu-berlin.de/e...te/Gebautes_Wissen/Quedlinburg.pdf?1367854295
Most recent excavation report on the Quedlinburg henge. Three layers - the original henge, re-used where appropriate (and destroyed where not fitting) some one-and-a-half millennium later, and finally a Hallstatt-period settlement that placed pits everywhere. My understanding is that they are still sorting out which find belongs to which period, and may need a few more years to do this.

So, for the time being, take my "slaughtering party after returning from the mountains" as a possible, but yet archaeologically unfounded scenario.

Below is a picture of a north-central European wood pasture (taken on Jutland). The trees get less and less, a few big ones survive, then comes a storm, or someone needs to refurbish his house . Firewood is always in demand, and it was common practice to also harvest leaves as winter fodder. Pollen diagrams evidence substantial deforestation already during the Neolithic, there is also clear indication of strongly increasing soil erosion.
640px-Lang%C3%A5-Egeskov-egetr%C3%A6er.jpg
 
This might be an example of reversed scenario. A meadow growing back into the forest. That's why there are few old trees and far between. Just my two cents.
 
I think Sun Circles are directly linked with cereal agriculture and related solar cults. But i believe that they are in some way linked to copper as well. I am still working on this, but this is where everything is pointing to. I don't think this has anything to do with cattle herders. They are by definition migrants, and dispersed thinly over vast areas, due to the nature of cattle grazing and herding. So first they have no incentive to build permanent anything, and second they have no manpower to do it. To build a large megalithic complex you need lots of people living in the same small place for a long time. Cattle will eat all the grass in the area and will need to move long before any work can be done....But farmers a stationary, linked to the land, and with a lot of time on their hands between agricultural work. With small holds having few animals of every kind, like subsistence farmer always did, they were perfectly able to perform building megalithic sites in their neighborhood.

So, how do you explain the stone circles with apparent solar, lunar and stellar alignments that are found in the Americas, some of them apparently built by non-agricultural populations (e.g. those found on the American plains)? I suspect that most early people used solar, lunar and stellar information as part of their spiritual practices, although the precise method of marking such things would have differed from one culture to another, with some groups using simple stone circles and others building large structures such as Stonehenge. IMO, the reason that the larger and more elaborate structures were constructed by societies that practiced some kind of agriculture is simply a function of how much more labour it takes to build a more elaborate structure.
 
This might be an example of reversed scenario. A meadow growing back into the forest. That's why there are few old trees and far between. Just my two cents.

Yes, that looks to me like the kind of grow back that happens in underutilized pasture fields, where some saplings survive grazing animals long enough to become trees.
 
FrankN thank you very much. Have you seen this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulacht_fiadh

Look at the dates when they appeared and and disappeared in Ireland.


Le Brock, you are right about the picture. I have seen this happen in areas where local subsistence farming have died out and where there are no more roaming animals.

Aberdeen, I don't have an explanation. I am not all knowing, but I know how large building sites which require large work force employed over long period of time work from the logistical point of view. Think about it yourself. Nomadic herders follow herds. They don't need calendars. Herds determine when they move, and nomadic herders, or hunters have to move with them or die. The fact that they don't need calendars, doesn't mean that nomads were not interested in astronomy and were not able to build solar observatories. It is possible that herders could build large structures on large open planes. They can be relatively stationary due to the huge amount of grass available. American planes are an example where this is possible. It is also possible that the knowledge was distributed to the plains from the Eastern USA where we have stationary settlements and most importantly copper mines. I did say that I believe that copper and megaliths are connected....Europe west from Carpathian mountains was at the time of first henges a different kind of country. Covered in huge mountains and ancient oak forests, there was no place for large herds anywhere except on karst highlands where trees could not grow and we have extensive grasslands. But they are only accessible during the summer, and in the winter the herds have to go down to the valleys. So this is not a nomadic lifestyle. This is why we find nomads In the east of Carpathian mountains in Evroasian steppe.

As I said It is most probable that people who built original henges were subsistence farmers with mixed grain and animal farming....
 

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