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View Full Version : Was E1b1 very first inhabitants in Europe 42,000 YPD?...or Saami U5 haplogroup?



noUseForAname
27-08-14, 08:00
Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?

Besa
19-03-15, 22:46
Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?

I believe one of them must of been so.

PaschalisB
23-03-15, 19:43
The mtDNA haplogroup U5 was most likely the first to arrive in Europe.
As for yDNA it could have been C.

Salmon
27-04-15, 01:24
Does that mean that they were the very first inhabitants in Europe?

Where haplogroup K (already in Europe) 39,000 YPD

Or even Saami People haplogroup U5 (25,000 years ago, or as early was 50,000 years ago)?

Doubt it. E haplogroup is descended from DE. It's cousins are in South/East Asian Islands outside of Africa. E is descended from South Asian invaders. The mtdna haplogroup M is found alongside them. Ther only place in Africa where M is found is in the horn of Africa and then it gets more common in the middle east where it disappears into the ocean islands. E did not come from Europe.

Most E haplogroup males mated with mtdna L haplogroup females in Africa. The only places where E is dominant is Africa. E1b1b is found in greatest concentrations in North Africa and coastal Africa. E1b1b is reaches its highest concentration in Europe within Kosovo at 47% of the population. Then its Greece 30% of the population. Then the concentration drops off. The further North you go into Europe, the lower the concentrations.

E1b1b is the only type E haplogroup found among Caucasoid populations. The highest concentrations in sub-Saharan Africa are among sub-Saharan Berbers, Cushitic Somalis, Tuaregs, Oromo, Sudanese.

In Africa you will also find Eurasian R, J haplogroups mated to L haplogroup females in some places.

There was some cultural exchange in North Africa where E1b1b males survived I, J, K Eurasian males and possibly were scattered into Europe.

For all we know E1b1b males in Europe could be descendents of ancient slaves shipped to Europe. The Egyptians were notorious for enslaving Africans. E1b1b could be descended from African males who survived Eurasian civilizations.

Maleth
01-05-15, 19:20
E did not come from Europe.

I have never came across anyone claiming that E comes from Europe, and probably none of the all the other haplogroups. The original E is split into some 40 branches with different timelines and time spans and events. It is probable that all haplogroups made an entrance into Europe from the East. Maybe some subclades made an entrance from North Africa.


E1b1b is the only type E haplogroup found among Caucasoid populations. The highest concentrations in sub-Saharan Africa are among sub-Saharan Berbers, Cushitic Somalis, Tuaregs, Oromo, Sudanese.

It has to be the only type as E1b1b covers ALL the E types found around the world probably mutated in Paleolithic times. I think what you mean is M78 to Z919 to L618 to V13 all the rest are hardly found in Europe.


There was some cultural exchange in North Africa where E1b1b males survived I, J, K Eurasian males and possibly were scattered into Europe.

I presume you mean E-M81 (found amoungst North African Berbers) who have a different time frame and migration routes to other E subclades.


For all we know E1b1b males in Europe could be descendents of ancient slaves shipped to Europe. The Egyptians were notorious for enslaving Africans. E1b1b could be descended from African males who survived Eurasian civilizations.

Sub clades such as E-V13 were found in Europe way before the classical Egyptian era or any slave trade we know of. Besides some of the earliest Pharoes are known to be from the E haplogroup. I dont think they were slaves :grin:... so who were these Notorious Egyptians? E-M78 (which is thought to have been mutated in the area) has been present in Egypt thousands of years before the first pyramids were built and its much more probable that these people were E-folks themselves. You need to know history and get familiar with time frames and possible mutations to be able to compare ;)

khufu
03-06-15, 13:33
The big question is

how mtdna u come in africa before 20.000 years :)

Who will not answer you why there are negrois in South Asia becous they not E or D

not answar you with who come mtdna u to africa before 20.000 years

khufu
03-06-15, 14:17
the proplem of haplogroup E With tyrants
Who belong to haplogroup E

teams of haplogroup E


They're a group of slaves some arabs and some jews who I will make them pick cotton in my farm This is the place they deserve

If this team slaves continued his work It will our haplogroup remain at the bottom

Are there scientists from e1b1b ?

only people out e1b1b help e1b1b people
Anyone who wants to work this team stands against him

We have smart more than Einstein and bravest warriors of Napoleon and Hitler and ramsis

We are special in this world

But we have traitors and agents They have agendas against somtime i think thise people not m35 and im sure people out m35 help m35 more than thise people

Ten years on this case

You must build a new team does not have innervated and not be slaves like them

Do not blame other

Clean your house first

Salmon
29-06-15, 21:55
I have never came across anyone claiming that E comes from Europe, and probably none of the all the other haplogroups. The original E is split into some 40 branches with different timelines and time spans and events. It is probable that all haplogroups made an entrance into Europe from the East. Maybe some subclades made an entrance from North Africa.



It has to be the only type as E1b1b covers ALL the E types found around the world probably mutated in Paleolithic times. I think what you mean is M78 to Z919 to L618 to V13 all the rest are hardly found in Europe.



I presume you mean E-M81 (found amoungst North African Berbers) who have a different time frame and migration routes to other E subclades.



Sub clades such as E-V13 were found in Europe way before the classical Egyptian era or any slave trade we know of. Besides some of the earliest Pharoes are known to be from the E haplogroup. I dont think they were slaves :grin:... so who were these Notorious Egyptians? E-M78 (which is thought to have been mutated in the area) has been present in Egypt thousands of years before the first pyramids were built and its much more probable that these people were E-folks themselves. You need to know history and get familiar with time frames and possible mutations to be able to compare ;)

E's were rare deep into Eurasia. If not, non-existent.

Haplogroup E belongs to haplogroup DE. They are characterized by their YAP mutation. They're Yap+. The only yap+ haplogroup found in Asia is D, which is found in Tibet. amongst the Ainu, and pygmies in the Andaman Islands. E's are dominant in sub-Saharan Africa and found in a minority of Southern Europeans and people in the Middle East.


The spread of the E haplogroup around the world has been through sub-Saharan African blacks that were taken to the Americas.

I'm not aware of any early pharaoh with an E haplogroup y-chromosome.

Angela
29-06-15, 22:09
E's were rare deep into Eurasia. If not, non-existent.

Haplogroup E belongs to haplogroup DE. They are characterized by their YAP mutation. They're Yap+. The only yap+ haplogroup found in Asia is D, which is found in Tibet. amongst the Ainu, and pygmies in the Andaman Islands. E's are dominant in sub-Saharan Africa and found in a minority of Southern Europeans and people in the Middle East.


The spread of the E haplogroup around the world has been through sub-Saharan African blacks that were taken to the Americas.

I'm not aware of any early pharaoh with an E haplogroup y-chromosome.


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28269-Ramesses-III-belonged-to-haplogroup-E1b1a

As you can see he was actually E1b1a, the SSA group.

We now know that E1b1b1a (E-M78 and perhaps E-V13) were already in the Carpathian Basin (think Hungary) by 4700 BC, and no, they didn't just "stay for a while". They've been in Europe for about 7,000 years.

Salmon
29-06-15, 22:30
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28269-Ramesses-III-belonged-to-haplogroup-E1b1a

As you can see he was actually E1b1a, the SSA group.

We now know that E1b1b1a (E-M78 and perhaps E-V13) were already in the Carpathian Basin (think Hungary) by 4700 BC, and no, they didn't just "stay for a while". They've been in Europe for about 7,000 years.

E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.

There were 2 bodies found in 2 small areas in the basin that were dated to 5000-3000 years ago. It's impossible to say under what circumstances they arrived there but they showed up alongside populations that may have originated in the Middle East.


They were not in Europe before 4900-3000 BC.

E haplogroups have had an extreme minority presence for thousands of years but it's been a minor presence. They were not the original inhabitants of Europe.

The Yap+ y-chromosomes likely originated among Indian Ocean Islanders or people that left Africa but stuck to the coast of Asia, avoiding the mainland. Yap+ y-chromosomes are near non-existent in Asia with only D having a presence in Tibet.

The ancestors of the E-chromosome peoples were likely tropical and aquatic. They may have had canoes. They may have interacted with the ancestors of Polynesians and Australoids. The y-chromosome of E-haplogroup men is closer to those of Andaman Island pygmies and Ainu than those of mainland Eurasians.

49,000 years ago, the ancestors of E-haplogroup men could have been racing the ancestors of Australian aborigines and Polynesians on canoes towards Japan and Australia but then turned back towards Africa.

Maleth
30-06-15, 00:53
E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.

There were 2 bodies found in 2 small areas in the basin that were dated to 5000-3000 years ago. It's impossible to say under what circumstances they arrived there but they showed up alongside populations that may have originated in the Middle East.


They were not in Europe before 4900-3000 BC.

Dont forget already a 7000 year old skeleton was found in North West Spain.

Salmon
30-06-15, 01:08
Dont forget already a 7000 year old skeleton was found in North West Spain.

Do you have a link?

Maleth
30-06-15, 01:19
Do you have a link?

whereas the Y-chromosomal analyses permitted confirmation of the existence in Spain approximately 7,000 y ago of two haplogroups previously associated with the Neolithic transition: G2a and E1b1b1a1b.

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

Salmon
30-06-15, 01:35
whereas the Y-chromosomal analyses permitted confirmation of the existence in Spain approximately 7,000 y ago of two haplogroups previously associated with the Neolithic transition: G2a and E1b1b1a1b.

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.


This E seems to be a member of a minority.

LeBrok
30-06-15, 01:41
27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.


This E seems to be a member of a minority.
Perhaps the same way as G is minority now in Europe, though it used to be so dominant. Proportions of haplogroups change from millennium to millennium.

Maleth
30-06-15, 01:47
27 specimens. Only 7 could be identified. 6 males, 1 female.

1 out of the males was e. 5 of the males were G.

Again, a sample from around the same time period as the Carpathian Basin skeletons show that G's are dominant in Europe.

This is what you just stated a few minutes ago.


E's were not found all over the world in ancient times. They were pretty much just in Africa with some leaking into western Asia around 5,000 BC. They were not in Asia before that.


This E seems to be a member of a minority.[/QUOTE]

In fact they were in Europe around 5,000 BC. You dont seem to be well updated and informed (saying that with respect) but yet you post around like a confident professional which makes your arguments uncredibable anyway with your ballistic statements, or otherwise an obvious agenda of some sort

Salmon
30-06-15, 01:49
Perhaps the same way as G is minority now in Europe, though it used to be so dominant. Proportions of haplogroups change from millennium to millennium.

All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.

For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.

Salmon
30-06-15, 02:03
This is what you just stated a few minutes ago.




This E seems to be a member of a minority.

In fact they were in Europe around 5,000 BC. You dont seem to be well updated and informed (saying that with respect) but yet you post around like a confident professional which makes your arguments uncredibable anyway with your ballistic statements, or otherwise an obvious agenda of some sort

The body was dated to around 5000-4000 BC. 1 body amongst several. 5 out of the 6 male bodies genetically screened belong to the G haplogroup.

We got look back at the rest of the world at the time. Neolithic Revolution begins around 10000 BC in Asia. The Eurasians have domesticated animals and crops. They're moving around. They're building things. They eventually take Eurasian crops and animals into North Africa.

Could have Eurasian expansion forced groups native to Africa to move? The E1b1b males don't see to be in Europe before or at the beginning of the Neolithic. We have evidence that they got there later.

LeBrok
30-06-15, 02:07
All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.
and E could have been their minority for a very long time.

For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.Let's look at it as one of possibilities, and not the truth.

Salmon
30-06-15, 02:42
and E could have been their minority for a very long time.
Let's look at it as one of possibilities, and not the truth.

The truth is that none of the studies show E1b1b being present prior to the Neolithic or in the early Neolithic. At the Carpathian site, the E1b1b remains were found at 2 sites among other foreign y-haplogroups. They were not evenly distributed in the region. At the Spanish site, the E1b1b skeleton was found among 5 other males that belonged to G.

There is no evidence of them being present in the early Neolithic or before the Neolithic.

Angela
30-06-15, 03:00
All these studies point to G haplogroup males being in Europe a long time before E1b1b's and others showed up. The E1b1b skeleton was found among G haplogroup males. G's were the majority.

For all we know this E1b1b male was a refugee or someone who migrated from North Africa after Eurasians had already established settlements in North Africa. Could have arrived there via a trade route, caravan.

Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif


We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/06/23/gbe.evv118.full.pdf+html

This is their estimate of it's TMRCA:(8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
I'd say that's about spot on.

It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.

Garrick
30-06-15, 03:48
Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif


We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/06/23/gbe.evv118.full.pdf+html

This is their estimate of it's TMRCA:(8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
I'd say that's about spot on.

It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.

According to Trombetta et al, 2015, page 13:

The TMRCA of E-V13 chromosomes (8.1kya;95% CI 5.6-10.8 kya) is consistent with a previous hypothesis about a post- Neolithic expansion of this haplogroup in Europe (Cruciani et al 2004; 2007).


It is consistent with Cruciani et al, 2007, Trombetta et al. say that it is consistent.

Cruciani et al, 2007:

The low E-V13 frequency (0.9%) and microsatellite variance (0.13) in northern Africa do not support an antiquity greater than in western Asia. Thus, the most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago, and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.
...

Post neolithic expansion is not 42,000YPD. Which proofs the setter of thread give for 42,000YPD. No one. It is contrary to whole knowledge.

The thread is meaningless.

Angela
30-06-15, 04:42
According to Trombetta et al, 2015, page 13:

The TMRCA of E-V13 chromosomes (8.1kya;95% CI 5.6-10.8 kya) is consistent with a previous hypothesis about a post- Neolithic expansion of this haplogroup in Europe (Cruciani et al 2004; 2007).


It is consistent with Cruciani et al, 2007, Trombetta et al. say that it is consistent.

Cruciani et al, 2007:

The low E-V13 frequency (0.9%) and microsatellite variance (0.13) in northern Africa do not support an antiquity greater than in western Asia. Thus, the most parsimonious and plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in western Asia about 11 ky ago, and its presence in northern Africa is the result of a more recent introgression. Under this hypothesis, E-V13 chromosomes sampled in western Asia and their coalescence estimate detect a likely Paleolithic exit out of Africa of E-M78 chromosomes devoid of the V13 mutation, which later occurred somewhere in the Near East/Anatolia.
...

Post neolithic expansion is not 42,000YPD. Which proofs the setter of thread give for 42,000YPD. No one. It is contrary to whole knowledge.

The thread is meaningless.


Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

Is it clear?

In addition, the location of E-M78 and E-V13 in areas that are very close to current hotspots for E-V13 is very suggestive indeed, to say the least.

Like it or lump it, whether it's what was taught in Serbian schools or not, those are the facts.

It's true, however, that there is no proof that yDna "E" was in Europe in the Mesolithic, much less 42,000 years ago, although E-M78 is just barely old enough to have possibly made it into Europe by around 22,000 BC. If we ever get remains from the Greek Islands in the Mesolithic, for example, or Crete, say, or the Dodecanese from that period, it will be very interesting to see what turns up.

Garrick
30-06-15, 05:15
Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

Is it clear?

In addition, the location of E-M78 and E-V13 in areas that are very close to current hotspots for E-V13 is very suggestive indeed, to say the least.

Like it or lump it, whether it's what was taught in Serbian schools or not, those are the facts.

It's true, however, that there is no proof that yDna "E" was in Europe in the Mesolithic, much less 42,000 years ago, although E-M78 is just barely old enough to have possibly made it into Europe by around 22,000 BC. If we ever get remains from the Greek Islands in the Mesolithic, for example, or Crete, say, or the Dodecanese from that period, it will be very interesting to see what turns up.

Angela, you can see from my older messages that I didn't accept that E-V13 came via Gibraltar, or by sea from Lybia (and I mostly don't accept sea paths in very old times). And it is logical that E-V13 found in middle Europe in the time 5,000-3,400 BC (Lengyel culture). But what this do with the thread and 42,000 years ago?

My opinion always is that E-V13 arrived from Near East/minor Asia, and I wrote about it more time.

And National Geographic thinks so:

https://iseekdeadpeople.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/natgeo-doug-18.jpg?w=676&h=333

Sile
30-06-15, 09:09
Angela, you can see from my older messages that I didn't accept that E-V13 came via Gibraltar, or by sea from Lybia (and I mostly don't accept sea paths in very old times). And it is logical that E-V13 found in middle Europe in the time 5,000-3,400 BC (Lengyel culture). But what this do with the thread and 42,000 years ago?

My opinion always is that E-V13 arrived from Near East/minor Asia, and I wrote about it more time.

And National Geographic thinks so:

https://iseekdeadpeople.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/natgeo-doug-18.jpg?w=676&h=333

Natgeno3? next generation out on the 15th of October 2015

Salmon
03-07-15, 20:34
Oh, for goodness sakes, I've never heard such special pleading. You think it's a coincidence that there are all those hot spots of E-V13 in and around Greece and the Balkans?
http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-V13.gif


We also have an E-V13 in Avellaner Cave in northeast Spain (Catalonia) in a Neolithic setting from 5,000 BC.
Marie Lacan et al from 2011:
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255.full

E-V13 and J2 were part of the Neolithic farmer migrations, ok? We don't know if M78, for example, reached Europe in the Mesolithic. It's possible, as it's probably old enough. We just don't know. We have an absolute dearth of Mesolithic and even Neolithic samples from southern Italy, Greece, the islands, etc.

In the latest phylogeny of "E", Trombetta and Cruciani et al , before these dna results were even released, hypothesized specifically that the E-V13 mutation took place in Europe.
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/06/23/gbe.evv118.full.pdf+html

This is their estimate of it's TMRCA:(8.1kya '95% CI 5.6-10.8kya)
I'd say that's about spot on.

It also had to be pointed out to you that one of the tested Pharaoh mummies, that of Ramses III, was indeed "E"; in fact he was E1b1a.

I think you have some reading to do before you start arguing your points so vehemently and arrogantly.

Trombetta study was done using DNA from living people, in modern times. They were using blood and swap samples. They were using living people. The claim is that E-V13 must have happened in Europe/Eurasia because E-V13 is rare in Africa. Possible but what if E-V13 developed in a part of Africa and moved to Europe because the population was displaced?

Ramesses 3 lived in 1155 BC and was not related to Ramesses the first or second. He existed in post-Neolothic times, over 1900 years after the founding of the Dynastic Egypt.

Egyptians were subjugating and displacing Africans for thousands of years by that time.

Salmon
03-07-15, 21:04
-please delete this -

Ike
03-07-15, 21:36
Trombetta and Cruciani published their paper before the release of the Nagy paper showing through ancient DNA that, in fact, a definite E-M78 and a possible E-V13 had already made their way into the Lengyel and Sopot cultures by 4700 BC, which is at the transition from the Middle to Late Neolithic, not the Bronze Age. Obviously, that is an expansion from further south or south/east, unless you think they were helicoptered into those areas, or you indeed think they were already there in the Mesolithic.

You are coming dangerously close to posting deliberately obfuscating and misleading posts. Y DNA "E" and YDNA J2, for that matter, were in Europe in the NEOLITHIC.

Is it clear?


When did possible become certain? Lets stick to the facts...

Angela
03-07-15, 21:44
When did possible become certain? Lets stick to the facts...

It became certain and a FACT the day that samples from ancient bodies in a Neolithic context dated to 6800 BC* came out Y DNA J2 and E. Is that simple enough?

*6800 to 7000 years ago.

Ike
03-07-15, 23:18
Ok, so possible E-V13 is now a certain E-V13. Gottcha.

Salmon
04-07-15, 06:14
It became certain and a FACT the day that samples from ancient bodies in a Neolithic context dated to 6800 BC came out Y DNA J2 and E. Is that simple enough?

Weren't the 3 bodies from those 2 studies from 5000-3000 BC?

Trojet
04-07-15, 11:15
Natgeno3? next generation out on the 15th of October 2015

Where did u get that info or do u have a source? I'm looking forward to this update of the geno chip as the current version is outdated, but haven't heard anything concrete...

Sile
04-07-15, 12:25
Where did u get that info or do u have a source? I'm looking forward to this update of the geno chip as the current version is outdated, but haven't heard anything concrete...

its called

Introducing Geno 2.0 Next Generation - A Revolutionary Breakthrough


Will be available only in USA from October 2015 and early 2016 elsewhere. Price is just under $200US not inc freight

Geno 2.0 was 150K AIMs and the Geno 2.0 Next Gen is 750K SNP @$199,

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2003825&gsk&MR21280

Trojet
04-07-15, 13:39
its called

Introducing Geno 2.0 Next Generation - A Revolutionary Breakthrough


Will be available only in USA from October 2015 and early 2016 elsewhere. Price is just under $200US not inc freight

Geno 2.0 was 150K AIMs and the Geno 2.0 Next Gen is 750K SNP @$199,

http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/ngs/browse/productDetail.jsp?productId=2003825&gsk&MR21280

Thanks, but that's still NatGeo Geno 2.0 which has been available since 2012 and it still can be ordered. I thought you were talking about NatGeo Geno 3.0

Either way I hope that the next Geno chip (Geno 3.0 or whatever they call it) is on the way. Hopefully the October 2015 date turns out to be correct :)

Angela
04-07-15, 14:47
Weren't the 3 bodies from those 2 studies from 5000-3000 BC?

Nagy provides dates on p. 59 of her dissertation.
http://d-nb.info/1072530740/34

Sopot Culture-5,000 to 4800 cal BC

Lengyel Culture-5,000 to 4300 cal BC

Therefore, the post should have said 6800 years ago (or 7,000 years ago), not 6800 BC. I will edit the post.

Sile
04-07-15, 19:37
Thanks, but that's still NatGeo Geno 2.0 which has been available since 2012 and it still can be ordered. I thought you were talking about NatGeo Geno 3.0

Either way I hope that the next Geno chip (Geno 3.0 or whatever they call it) is on the way. Hopefully the October 2015 date turns out to be correct :)

call it version 3 or next gen matters little , they give you results for all your positive and all your negative SNP, they do not only supply you with positive SNP results like all other testers.

i still do not need to test a new snp found for the last year ........., i just check my natgeno2 results and then advise ftdna in writing, that i was already tested positive or negative for that snp and since i have already transferred results to ftdna , please update ftdna...........which they do , they have no choice.

so from the old 150k SNP to 750k SNP ................it is big