Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
Borders are a recent phenomenon. 18th century invention. There is not such a thing as 1000 yrs borders!
Borders are a recent phenomenon. 18th century invention. There is not such a thing as 1000 yrs borders!
There were many precise borders of the past, often by natural means like rivers, seas or mountain ridges. I'm sure you can find descriptions of borders in Roman treaties with other empires and nations. However when we go to bronze age or neolithic where city states dominated landscape, or between nomadic tribes, the notion of borders become very fuzzy. Having said that, people are very territorial in nature and for that reason ownership of claims to certain lands always existed, even if there were not clear borders painted on the ground.Borders are a recent phenomenon. 18th century invention. There is not such a thing as 1000 yrs borders!
There were many precise borders of the past, often by natural means like rivers, seas or mountain ridges. I'm sure you can find descriptions of borders in Roman treaties with other empires and nations.
Borders can not be changed in today's world. Before they would change everyday. Let say a German with money would pay a Frenchman and take his land possessions and add it to the German territory. So there were no borders.Hadrians wall in North England (in regards to the Romans) and the Great wall of China (in regards to the Manchu invasions) are good examples of ancient borders
Borders can not be changed in today's world. Before they would change everyday. Let say a German with money would pay a Frenchman and take his land possessions and add it to the German territory. So there were no borders.
There is no definition saying that borders are forever and have universal/giving by god character. Changing borders are still borders, where one country ends another starts and we need permission to cross it.Borders can not be changed in today's world. Before they would change everyday. Let say a German with money would pay a Frenchman and take his land possessions and add it to the German territory. So there were no borders.
Some Irish county borders are in exactly the same place where they were during bronze and iron age.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/30...acrificed-irish-king-127898048-237406461.html
30 years war. Caused almost complete change in population in the Central Europe. The bloodiest European war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
30 years war. Caused almost complete change in population in the Central Europe. The bloodiest European war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War
Jan Hus (Czech pronunciation: [ˈjan ˈɦus] ( listen); c. 1369 – 6 July 1415), often referred to in English as John Hus or John Huss, was aCzech priest, philosopher, reformer and master at Charles University in Prague. After John Wycliffe, the theorist of ecclesiastical Reformation, Hus is considered the first Church reformer, as he lived before Luther, Calvin and Zwingli....
Jan Hus was a key contributor to Protestantism, whose teachings had a strong influence on the states of Europe and on Martin Luther himself. The Hussite Wars resulted in the Basel Compacts which allowed for a reformed church in the Kingdom of Bohemia—almost a century before such developments would take place in the Lutheran Reformation. The Unitas Fratrum (or Moravian Church) considers itself a spiritual heir to many of Hus' followers.[10] Hus' extensive writings earn him a prominent place in Czech literary history.
No it doesn't. It can be repopulated by remaining original occupants of this land after the war. To prove repopulation you need historical records about new settlers in these areas or genetic study pointing to shift in DNA pool. In lack of both it is only your guess, and you can't categorically state population change.The records of depopulation. Look at the map on the wiki page. For instance Pomerania lost over 60% of its population. This is the map of the depopulation of the lands which today comprise Germany. Dark brown areas lost over 60% of the population...
View attachment 6609
Estimated death toll in Europe during 30 years war was up to 11 million people. That leaves a lot of empty land which gets populated by someone else, hence population change.
.
I'm not claiming that it is otherwise. I'm stating that there is a possibility that population wasn't replaced in lack of genetic or historical records. I just can't figure out why you are so sure of this population replacement?LeBrok, you said: "you can't categorically state population change". Precisely for the same reason you can't claim otherwise. But, I have confirmed examples of complete depopulation and consequent population change from many religious wars around the world. It is actually an intended goal of religious wars, elimination of the opposing population:
Half of these examples are not religious wars, just saying. Some of them are true and documented population replacements indeed. But they don't make your assumption about Central Europe population replacement true.1. Austrian - Turkish wars of the 17th century left Serbian lowlands completely depopulated. Most of the population was killed or emigrated to Hungary, Austria and Russia. The area was populated by mountain people from Bosnia and Bulgaria, to the point that we have no idea who medieval Serbs were genetically.
2. Greek Turkish war after the first world war. Complete population exchange and replacement.
3. Armenian genocide - Complete population replacement
4. Expulsion of Germans from Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia. Complete population replacement.
5. Holocaust, complete population replacement
6. Jewish expulsion of Palestinians from Palestine, complete population replacement
7. Cathar crusade, complete population replacement
8. Cromwell invasion, Irish famine ,almost complete population replacement in parts of Ireland
9. harrowing of the north and consequent English civil war, almost complete population replacement in parts of northern England
10. Huguenot wars, huge population movement from france to England
11. Reconquesta, rechristianization of Spain, almost complete population replacement in southern Spain
.....
Are you saying that these bad Croats killed and replaced a population somewhere?Why do you think that 30 year war, which is known as one of the most cruel, bestial wars, which had set new standards in human cruelty towards innocent civilians, had different outcome? Slavs and Germans fought on both sides. Croats, who fought for the catholic side, were remembered as particularly bloodthirsty in their dealing with protestants, german or slavic. There is old testament in Germany about Croatians, carved words in stone of old German church, and words says: "God save us from plague, hunger, wars and Croats"
Many of today croatians and europe, forgotten about reputation of croatian soldiers/warriors which were common knowledge once in western europe... For examble, in 18 and 19 century in Bavaria (Germany), Belgium and in Austria, parents would scare their children if they don't want to go in bed with sentences as: "be good and go to sleep or croatians will come for you"
And children would be scared and went to bed like someone mentioned devil himself... I am just writing this so you can get a point how common that fact about croatian warriors was back than...
This means that who ever repopulated the central Europe could have also been mixed ethnically.
Still waiting for this shred of document proving it, or genetic research if you will.But the fact remains that the population of Central Europe was dramatically changed over last 400 years.
This thread has been viewed 15730 times.