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View Full Version : Scottish independence referendum,your opinions and comments on this matter



mihaitzateo
14-09-14, 16:46
Now,I have seen that there are a lot of discussions about this referendum that will take place on 18th of September.
I was wondering if anyone here have something to comment about this.
I will start ,I do not think that if the vote is yes or not,this will change too much about UK and Scotland or UK.

Aberdeen
14-09-14, 17:08
Yes, there will be major changes if it's a yes vote, which it may be. It's not just about Scottish nationalism. The Scots are just fed up with the English love affair with Thatcherism lite, and feel that the English don't care about Scotland except for the oil. Cameron was basically ignoring the referendum until it looked as if the yes side might win, and if Scotland votes no, the English will return to their malign neglect of Scotland.

I generally disapprove of regional separatist movements and I think many of them, including the Scottish yes side, rely on unrealistic assumptions. However, although I think a separate Scotland would have a hard time of it in the short run, separation would probably be good for Scotland in the long run, which prtobably wouldn't be true for most regional separatist movements if they succeeded.

Yetos
15-09-14, 14:48
hmmmm,

it is hard to say,

a total independence is different than a local parliament
i do not know if cooperation will start after that, or freezing situations.
sorry can't tell,
I leave them decide,

Maleth
15-09-14, 15:30
I think its a good good thing for Scotland to gain independence and in reality it will be a good thing for the country. I dont think the Scotts feel English and the other way round. The term British is kind of cosmetic and not deep rooted and can wear off any time. In any case being independent does not make one an enemy and cooperation would only make common sense.

If Malta survived and doing very well, when we were just surviving on a military based economy. The Maltese economic motor process had to begin from scratch being an independent tiny Island. I cannot see why Scotland should not do well which has much more natural resources and much of the infrastructure and systems already in place.

I think the issue here is that the EU is not in favour for regions to become independent and giving a helping hand to influence the Scottish people for a no vote. The reason is that if Scotland votes in favour of independence, it would trigger off a nightmare (for the EU) in favour for regions around Europe to become independent. It would be a logistical nightmare for a European parliament to work.

Aberdeen
15-09-14, 20:58
I think its a good good thing for Scotland to gain independence and in reality it will be a good thing for the country. I dont think the Scotts feel English and the other way round. The term British is kind of cosmetic and not deep rooted and can wear off any time. In any case being independent does not make one an enemy and cooperation would only make common sense.

If Malta survived and doing very well, when we were just surviving on a military based economy. The Maltese economic motor process had to begin from scratch being an independent tiny Island. I cannot see why Scotland should not do well which has much more natural resources and much of the infrastructure and systems already in place.

I think the issue here is that the EU is not in favour for regions to become independent and giving a helping hand to influence the Scottish people for a no vote. The reason is that if Scotland votes in favour of independence, it would trigger off a nightmare (for the EU) in favour for regions around Europe to become independent. It would be a logistical nightmare for a European parliament to work.

Yes, I'm sure the EU is concerned about the precedent that Scottish independence might appear to set for several European separatist movements that are less economically viable than an independent Scotland might be. So perhaps the EU will set barriers in the way of the economic success of an independent Scotland, at the insistence of countries like Spain and France, who have their own regional separatist movements to worry about.

-RIFFIAN-
16-09-14, 03:38
I hope the uk remains united, in case of separation/independence of Scotland,it will be a disaster for the people and economy.

Yetos
16-09-14, 05:26
Does this indepedence also means 'away from the crown'?

Maleth
16-09-14, 07:52
Does this indepedence also means 'away from the crown'?

Like Ireland (South) it will be a republic which happened in 1949, but will be part of the commonwealth if it chooses so. Ireland has chosen not to be part of the commonwealth. My bets are that this is not going to happen anyway.

Sile
16-09-14, 08:06
I hope the uk remains united, in case of separation/independence of Scotland,it will be a disaster for the people and economy.

people will vote for who they want to vote for , its a democracy............if England treated the Scots better, this vote would never have occurred .

I feel more aggrieved that democratic nations around the world did not support the democratic rights of the Scots to vote for independence, they just supported England......very anti-democratic IMO

Yetos
16-09-14, 13:55
@ Sile

No I am supporting neither part,
although as UK is stronger with Scotch
on controversary Scoth are these who decide, and not the rest nations or UK.
maybe that makes Scotland stronger,
but I do not know if they create Army forces or militias
Personally I Like all that, they will vote fully informed of what with their vote achieve, good or bad, :good_job: , and not blind, following a demagogue

I Like that, it is better than what happened in ex-Yugoslavia and today Ukraine.

thank Gods Nato and Russia did not use it as propaganda to blame each other :laughing:

-RIFFIAN-
16-09-14, 17:19
people will vote for who they want to vote for , its a democracy............if England treated the Scots better, this vote would never have occurred .

I feel more aggrieved that democratic nations around the world did not support the democratic rights of the Scots to vote for independence, they just supported England......very anti-democratic IMO

In my point of view,democracy shouldn't include the issue of sovereignty of a country, any other issue should be tolerated, certainly the UK has lost many lives fighting for this territory !!

The same in the question of the Moroccan Sahara, still in dispute, and the regions of Catalonia and the Basque country in Spain.

Aaron1981
16-09-14, 18:30
if England treated the Scots better, this vote would never have occurred .



I'm not sure you're in any position to make this call. Need facts, not Mel Gibson propaganda.

John Doe
16-09-14, 18:35
I'm not sure you're in any position to make this call. Need facts, not Mel Gibson propaganda.
ROFL, good one. :laughing: :good_job:

Aberdeen
16-09-14, 19:34
I'm not sure you're in any position to make this call. Need facts, not Mel Gibson propaganda.

I very seldom agree with Sile, but I do this time. Anyone who reads English or Scottish newspapers online will quickly get the gist of things- Scotland is the neglected stepchild of the so-called United Kingdom.

Knovas
16-09-14, 20:40
From a Catalan perspective, Scots do not have much reasons to complain about the UK. They are accepted as what they are (a nation), and they can vote in agreement with the state. Don't know if being part of the UK is a good business or not for them, but the previous points are very important: it is all about respect. That is something we Catalans will never have with any Spanish government, there's no doubt about it.

Being that said, I still prefer they become independent. The same I want for me, should also be for them.

albanopolis
16-09-14, 22:19
From a Catalan perspective, Scots do not have much reasons to complain about the UK. They are accepted as what they are (a nation), and they can vote in agreement with the state. Don't know if being part of the UK is a good business or not for them, but the previous points are very important: it is all about respect. That is something we Catalans will never have with any Spanish government, there's no doubt about it.

Being that said, I still prefer they become independent. The same I want for me, should also be for them.

Can you explain me: "Who are the Spanish". I am confused. I see the wiki there is no ethnic group with the name Spanish. Who is the dominant ethnic group in Spain?

Garrick
20-09-14, 02:15
I generally disapprove of regional separatist movements and I think many of them, including the Scottish yes side, rely on unrealistic assumptions. However, although I think a separate Scotland would have a hard time of it in the short run, separation would probably be good for Scotland in the long run, which prtobably wouldn't be true for most regional separatist movements if they succeeded.

Kosovo, Serbian province, opened Pandora's box. Another nations see it and separation start to attract them.

albanopolis
20-09-14, 03:04
Kosovo, Serbian province, opened Pandora's box. Another nations see it and separation start to attract them.
Scots had willingly been participating in that union. Kosovo never accepted the union. It was imposed upon them.
You are simplifying the truth with your statement. You are giving the impression that Scots did not know the word independence. They learned it after Kosovo.
English acted gracelessly. They gave the Scots the right to express themselves. Great Briton will again will be a union of willing.
Hats of the civilized people of Northern Europe who always use their heads.
Look how cynically Castelanos are acting on Catalans. Let them vote. Its not going to be the end of the world. There is no proof that unions work better than individual states.

Garrick
20-09-14, 03:36
Scots had willingly been participating in that union. Kosovo never accepted the union. It was imposed upon them.
You are simplifying the truth with your statement. You are giving the impression that Scots did not know the word independence. They learned it after Kosovo.
English acted gracelessly. They gave the Scots the right to express themselves. Great Briton will again will be a union of willing.
Hats of the civilized people of Northern Europe who always use their heads.
Look how cynically Castelanos are acting on Catalans. Let them vote. Its not going to be the end of the world. There is no proof that unions work better than individual states.

Scots are proud nation. But objectively no need for tens new small states in Europe. I think all problems can be solved democratically. Kosovo is Serbian province, armed rebellion is not acceptable, now it is frozen conflict. Cyprus is good example, it was frozen conflict long year, but now it is the process of unification.

FBS
20-09-14, 11:41
Scots are proud nation. But objectively no need for tens new small states in Europe. I think all problems can be solved democratically. Kosovo is Serbian province, armed rebellion is not acceptable, now it is frozen conflict. Cyprus is good example, it was frozen conflict long year, but now it is the process of unification.
Poor Garrick, unable to cope with the reality.

Garrick
20-09-14, 11:52
Poor Garrick, unable to cope with the reality.

Only real. I love Scots but UK is better choice than independence, and they vote mostly No.

Maybe you don't know for term "frozen conflict". You can see what it means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_conflict


India–Pakistan relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Pakistan_relations) ("frozen" since 1947/1965/1999)
Cross-Strait relations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Strait_relations) (frozen since 1949)
Division of Korea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Korea) (frozen since 1953)
Arab–Israeli conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict) ("frozen" since 1948/1967/1973/1982/2006/2009/2012/2014)
Western Sahara conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sahara_conflict) (frozen since 1991)
Cyprus dispute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute) (frozen since 1974)
War of Transnistria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Transnistria) (frozen since 1992)
Nagorno-Karabakh War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_War) (frozen since 1994)
Kosovo War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War) (frozen since 1999)
Abkhaz–Georgian conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhaz%E2%80%93Georgian_conflict) (frozen since 2008)
Georgian–Ossetian conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian%E2%80%93Ossetian_conflict) (frozen since 2008)

FBS
20-09-14, 12:39
This thread is about Scotland so I am not going to continue this discussion further with you Garrick.

Garrick
20-09-14, 12:50
This thread is about Scotland so I am not going to continue this discussion further with you Garrick.

I wrote about Scotland and beyond. My opinion is that Europe does not need new small states and that all problems can be solved in a democratic way.

FBS
20-09-14, 14:30
I wrote about Scotland and beyond. My opinion is that Europe does not need new small states and that all problems can be solved in a democratic way.
Yeah, and you speak in the name of the whole Europe and represent all these nations that are part of it. The nerve!

Garrick
20-09-14, 14:43
Yeah, and you speak in the name of the whole Europe and repersent all these nations that are part of it. The nerve!

No, you do not read carefully, I give my opinion. You can give your opinion. Everyone gives her or his opinion, it is democracy. If you like support separatism you can write about it how much you want.

FBS
20-09-14, 14:52
When a group or a person uses the expression "Separatism" instead of the "right for self-determination" is just for covering their chauvinism. It shows lack of democratic values and especially shows the lack of respect when a group or a person simply does not want to be with them anymore.

Garrick
20-09-14, 15:32
When a group or a person uses the expression "Separatism" instead of the "right for self-determination" is just for covering their chauvinism. It shows lack of democratic values and especially shows the lack of respect when a group or a person simply does not want to be with them anymore.

I can agree with you, partly. Independent, independence or movement for independence is maybe finer then separatism, but separatism is correct term and it does not talk about chauvinism. Chauvinism is something completely different than separatism.

But "right for self-determination" is very hard and precise term, and this term is best avoided in these discussions. Who has the right and power from us to say that some nation in the world (there are hundreds of nations who seek independence in the world) have the right to self determination. It is not lack of respect or democratic values but legal and political issue. States, Unions, United Nations make decision about that.

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