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oldeuropeanculture
15-09-14, 22:34
In the mountains of the Balkans we find a peculiar type of "old style" singing which can only be compared with the howling of wolfs. The singing can be solo or group singing. If it is done in a group it has the same polyphonic characteristics as the howling of a wolf pack. In Serbian it is called "ojkanje". The center of this musical tradition seems to be in the area of the Dinaric alps and in the Balkan mountains.


We can find similar type of old style singing in Sardinia, Ireland and Estonia and Georgia. But the singing seems to become less animal and more human like, the further away you go from the Balkans.


How old is this type of singing? Is this maybe the oldest, the most primitive type of singing preserved today in Evroasia?


You can read more here:


http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2014/09/ojkanje-wolf-singing.html

I would appreciate any links to any Evroasian primitive singing examples of the same type which I have missed. Tuva singing is derived from the same old tradition but it has since changed into a completely different singing style. All European choral singing is also derived from this ancient wolf singing but has since changed beyond recognition. I am looking for other culturally conservative populations which have preserved the old singing in its original form or as close to it as possible.

King Bardhyl
15-09-14, 23:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4V2cE-LmBU
Traditional Albanian polyphonic music can be divided into two major stylistic groups as performed by the Ghegs of northern Albania and the Tosks and Labs living in the southern part of the country. The term iso is refers to the drone accompanying polyphonic singing. The drone is performed in two ways: among the Tosks, it is always continuous and sung on the syllable ’e’, using staggered breathing, while among the Labs, the drone is sometimes sung as a rhythmic tone, performed to the text of the song. Rendered mainly by male singers, the music traditionally accompanies a wide range of social events, such as weddings, funerals, harvest feasts, religious celebrations and festivals such as the well-known Albanian folk festival in Gjirokastra.

Albanian iso-polyphony is characterized by songs consisting of two solo parts, a melody and a countermelody with a choral drone. The structure of the solo parts varies according to the different ways of performing the drone, which has a great variety of structures, especially in the popular style adopted by all groups performing this music.
One of several genres of iso-polyphonic music performed in southern Albania, with "iso" referring to the distinctive drone voice used. This variety is found among the Lab people in the region of Labëria. The music consists of two solo voices (a "taker" and a "turner") and one or two drone voices, and rarely has instrumental accompaniment. While similar to Tosk Polyphony (http://rateyourmusic.com/genre/Tosk+Polyphony/), Lab polyphony differs in that it can feature anywhere from two to four voices, a drone that is occasionally rhythmic and follows the song's text, and a recitative-style melody.

The most beautifull lab polifonic song is this:
Janinës ç'i panë sytë (Ah, what Ioannina's eyes saw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQDCw9K3ZmU
Famous epic Albanian folk song, about a battle against Ottomans in Janina (Ioannina), during which three men heroically cut through the line of Ottoman soldiers to kill the Pasha.
Text:
Janines ci pane syt
Ja-Janino
Ish e premte ajo dite
Te Pese puset ne gryke
Zenel Celua vet i dyte
Zeneli me te Velcione
Dhe trimi Jace Mavrova
Cau mespermes tabore
E shtriu pashane pertoke.

---------

What Ioannina's eyes saw... Oh, Ioannina!
It was Friday that day... Oh, Ioannina!
At the five wells at the gorge of mountin
Zenel Celo was not alone... Oh, Ioannina!
Zenel Celo and the guy from Velca... Oh, Ioannina!
And the brave Jace Mavrova... Oh, Ioannina!
Cut in between the soldiers... Oh, Ioannina!
He stretched pascia at ground... Oh, Ioannina!
Sorry for the quality of video, but it`s the first version and i like it.

Dance of Vranishti "Which are you man"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q1v-ac14NE
Albanians wherever you are - Group Tërbaçit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6u7C51UhwI
Girl Waves Group Himara coast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fh7PBx0-Vg
And this is beautifull:
Legend of Tana - Group Lapardha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Vzjfv5gw4

King Bardhyl
15-09-14, 23:58
The song is dedicated to 5 kounciliere executed by german WWII. Four of them were killed, the fifth the younger escape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_sNWPDNlPY

Fire Haired14
16-09-14, 02:11
In the mountains of the Balkans we find a peculiar type of "old style" singing which can only be compared with the howling of wolfs. The singing can be solo or group singing. If it is done in a group it has the same polyphonic characteristics as the howling of a wolf pack. In Serbian it is called "ojkanje". The center of this musical tradition seems to be in the area of the Dinaric alps and in the Balkan mountains.


We can find similar type of old style singing in Sardinia, Ireland and Estonia and Georgia. But the singing seems to become less animal and more human like, the further away you go from the Balkans.


How old is this type of singing? Is this maybe the oldest, the most primitive type of singing preserved today in Evroasia?


You can read more here:


http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2014/09/ojkanje-wolf-singing.html

I would appreciate any links to any Evroasian primitive singing examples of the same type which I have missed. Tuva singing is derived from the same old tradition but it has since changed into a completely different singing style. All European choral singing is also derived from this ancient wolf singing but has since changed beyond recognition. I am looking for other culturally conservative populations which have preserved the old singing in its original form or as close to it as possible.

That's pretty interesting. I have no idea how to judge if traditional Irish, Estonian, Sardinian, etc. music is connected at all. It's very interesting to hear traditional music, music that isn't non-modern/popular music. We should expect modern/popular music to be better because now people make a career out of music, but some traditional music is very good. Most people only have heard a few differnt forms of music, but because there are so many ethnic groups and cultures in the world there are 100's of differnt forms of music.


I would appreciate any links to any Evroasian primitive singing examples of the same type which I have missed.

I don't know if primitive is the right word, it's just a differnt form of music. I think you should say folk or traditional music, that might not have as complex instruments as modern forms of music. I don't know anything about music but some of those songs reminded me of Sami yoiks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz6CPs6geoo

Yetos
16-09-14, 20:41
that you call song of the wolf is the Dorian harmonia Δωρια αρμονια

there are 5 types,

1rst the pentaphonic pentatonic 5 syllabes no semitones singing mainly at working hour, late night with wine and table, and long walk travelling
2nd is the 9 syllabear 3 tones (5+4 4+5) accompany also a small dance
3rd is big 15 syllabear, many times

for your album

from my area Makedonia a typical 9 syllabear of Dorian Armonia total chorus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysEswAbecEQ


typical 15 syllaber from Makedonia Also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaOVbllcYg


a change among 9 and 15 first virb 9 second 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rouc1VZPcDg


a clear dorian with 5 syllabear Doria harmonia in a fast rythm so to can be danced few km from my area
hear after 6:20 min the sound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIgRAclCU4


also another village few km from mine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaPQNuFMlWQ



what makes wonder me why you exclude Greece from your forum?
you did that by accident or in purpose?

oldeuropeanculture
17-09-14, 00:11
Hi Yetos, thank you very much for your links. I did include Epiros. I was not aware of the other examples. Interesting that you call this dorian harmony, considering that Dorians did come from the north (Balkans)...I will include your examples on my page. Do you have any idea when was this harmony first recorded as dorian? It is interesting that all the examples are from the north of Greece, from Makedonia and Epiros...The example 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaOVbllcYg) is not from the same tradition.

King Bardhyl
17-09-14, 00:15
Hi Yetos, thank you very much for your links. I did include Epiros. I was not aware of the other examples. Interesting that you call this dorian harmony, considering that Dorians did come from the north (Balkans)...I will include your examples on my page. Do you have any idea when was this harmony first recorded as dorian? It is interesting that all the examples are from the north of Greece, from Makedonia and Epiros...The example 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaOVbllcYg) is not from the same tradition.

My friend Epirus is not Greece.
At your material: http://oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.ie/2014/09/ojkanje-wolf-singing.html
we can find this:

Epirus Old Style singing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b41OFxPY8hw


It`s in albanian.

Dalmat
17-09-14, 06:20
Nothing to do with wolves, or impersonating animals, there is a main singer or shouter who tels some story, either heroic, or funny, or sad, and others go along with shouting.
That shouting is very hard to do actually, ant it was to show men ho sing it are strong

there are different polifonic singing in croatia, we have the most, ojkanje, ganga, rera, ...itd and there are modernized klape




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi78c0VOXAw


words are, "dear Lady of doors of stone, keep it safe, Zagreb major city of Croats"

Dalmat
17-09-14, 06:28
its rather old style of singing, or how do i say backwards or village type, more modernized or educated singing of this sounds like this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y50mBVaXxk

Dalmat
17-09-14, 06:36
in north adriatic there is different variations, for example they do this na na nan na as backup sound to main singer
This is bit modernized song that shows it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvVRYHtPdTk

Yetos
17-09-14, 08:44
Hi Yetos, thank you very much for your links. I did include Epiros. I was not aware of the other examples. Interesting that you call this dorian harmony, considering that Dorians did come from the north (Balkans)...I will include your examples on my page. Do you have any idea when was this harmony first recorded as dorian? It is interesting that all the examples are from the north of Greece, from Makedonia and Epiros...The example 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaOVbllcYg) is not from the same tradition.

there are also in south peloponese, we see them in areas where Dorians settle,
I will find you more.

about 2nd song which you mention,
it is 4/5 which is a dancing theme, not a sitting or moarning 5/4
are you interested in moarning songs moiroloi?

Perandor
19-09-14, 07:31
The word "ojkanje" seems very similar to Albanian "ujkonje/ulkonje" meaning female wolf (ujk being male wolf). Must explain why you refer to it as the wolf singing. I don't know if the word has any meaning in Croatian.