About the Genographic Project results from Asturias (spain)

Akklaf

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Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-S21 (Z331)
mtDNA haplogroup
H1t
Hi! What do you think about these results? (I still can´t post links, so please look for it in google)

I think there is some mistakes in the migration maps and/or the information is not accurate enought. Not all E1b and J1 in spain come from Moors!
 
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic...to-the-genographic-project-human-family-tree/

Is this link you are referring to Akklaf? If it is there is no breakdown of other haplogroups except R1b at 75%. All in all I don't believe National Geographic are totally correct in the way the present things. When they tested people in Malta they presented Malta a 50% Phoenician when apparently in other studies it is found that J2 (what they termed Phoenician) is at 21%. This is besides the fact that J2 does not only represent Phoenician genes. They even ignored the fact Malta was uninhabited in the 1000's and only repopulated from Sicily in the 1040's.

Asturias was not even conquered by the moors so any E-81 (Berber gene) found could be well thousands of years old and much prior to the Moorish occupation of further south, although its route is more likely directly from North Africa, but thousands of years ago. Article says that Middle east is 23%. What haplogroup are they referring too? If not mistaken Asturias only have around 5% J1 - unless they term J2 as middle eastern too.

A sample of 100 people is not enough anyway to determine a correct picture of a whole region and the article goes in no detail. Just put a pinch of salt on it.
 
I read the article, it says that European Hunter gatherers belonged to Y DNA G and Y DNA I were farmers. What a pile of trash, this guy clearly didn't do any research.
 
Yes Maleth. This one. It is a shame using a misinformation to introduce the genetic anthropology genetic to the people. I think the report is just a pile of sensationalism and easy conclusions.
 
Yes Maleth. This one. It is a shame using a misinformation to introduce the genetic anthropology genetic to the people. I think the report is just a pile of sensationalism and easy conclusions.

sensationalism through DNA is well known. Most people unfortunately are not interested enough to know difference and time frames in regards to DNA and many still associate DNA solely as a forensic tool. Amateurish articles on magazines and papers use hit words that everyone can understand but unfortunately people immediately make their own assumptions intended to stir up the sensationalism aspect.

This reminds me of Adolph Hitler DNA. What more sensational news you can give to associate a racist as being subsaharan and even a Jew!!. Just gives the wow and awe factor, who cares about the correct info. His test was only half baked and a deeper test would probably put him with the ancient E's found both in Austria and South Germany and have absolutely nothing to do with Sub sahara or the Jews.

But who cares if such BS can sell. Going back to your original article, in 2014 you would expect something more professional from National Geographic

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305414/Hitler-descended-Jews-Africans-DNA-tests-reveal.html
 
I read the article, it says that European Hunter gatherers belonged to Y DNA G and Y DNA I were farmers. What a pile of trash, this guy clearly didn't do any research.

Correct Motzart, and also can someone please explain what is the British DNA? have they found the Italian or the French one yet? And surprise surprise Austurias has no Spanish DNA? but hunter gatherers (were are the farmers!) middle eastern and north African and British. Nice pie chart
 
Hi! What do you think about these results? (I still can´t post links, so please look for it in google)

I think there is some mistakes in the migration maps and/or the information is not accurate enought. Not all E1b and J1 in spain come from Moors!

Also on the maternal chart, U6, which is prehistoric and might not even be "African" to begin with but from the Middle East, is also not necessarily associated with "Moors" either. This is obviously the result of the silly assumption that many people -including some geneticists- with a faint knowledge of history make that any genetic marker associated with "Africa" found in Iberia must somehow be connected with "Moors" from the Middle Ages.
 
Also on the maternal chart, U6, which is prehistoric and might not even be "African" to begin with but from the Middle East, is also not necessarily associated with "Moors" either. This is obviously the result of the silly assumption that many people -including some geneticists- with a faint knowledge of history make that any genetic marker associated with "Africa" found in Iberia must somehow be connected with "Moors" from the Middle Ages.

, it would have had older carthagians as per the city of new carthage...........the carthagians would have also sent over numidians where where long time allies of them in Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage#mediaviewer/File:CarthageMap.png
 
, it would have had older carthagians as per the city of new carthage...........the carthagians would have also sent over numidians where where long time allies of them in Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage#mediaviewer/File:CarthageMap.png

Hardly much to do with U6, which is in fact more common in Western Iberia and the Canary Islands, not in places that had to do with Carthage. It would be like trying to attribute U6 in Italy to this:

http://www.electrummagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Hannibal-journey-map.png
 
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The 1% of native american maternal haplogroups is interesting nevertheless.
GENOGRAPHIC_Spain-Maternal-Map-FINAL1-600x715.jpg
 
The 1% of native american maternal haplogroups is interesting nevertheless.
View attachment 6822

Well, it only makes sense. How could anyone imagine that no women carrying Amerindian mtDna haplogroups ever made the return trip back to Iberia?
 
Well, it only makes sense. How could anyone imagine that no women carrying Amerindian mtDna haplogroups ever made the return trip back to Iberia?

And little known historical facts can be quite relevant. The Basques had a cod fishery for several centuries in what is now the Canadian province of Newfoundland. There is some evidence that it was established before or shortly after John Cabot "discovered" Newfoundland for the English crown. So the Basques had several centuries to mingle with the Native people of Newfoundland before the Newfoundland Natives became extinct. That could account for any apparent Amerindian admixture among the Basques, although I think it could also be a false positive caused by a small amount of ANE reaching the Iberian peninsula without any Caucasian admixture. And other Spaniards eventually became involved in the Newfoundland fishery so could also have gotten some Amerindian ancestry from there.
 
And little known historical facts can be quite relevant. The Basques had a cod fishery for several centuries in what is now the Canadian province of Newfoundland. There is some evidence that it was established before or shortly after John Cabot "discovered" Newfoundland for the English crown. So the Basques had several centuries to mingle with the Native people of Newfoundland before the Newfoundland Natives became extinct. That could account for any apparent Amerindian admixture among the Basques, although I think it could also be a false positive caused by a small amount of ANE reaching the Iberian peninsula without any Caucasian admixture. And other Spaniards eventually became involved in the Newfoundland fishery so could also have gotten some Amerindian ancestry from there.

I never bothered to take the Genographic test, but on 23andme my only non European dna is .1 for East Asian, and .1 for Amerindian. I don't think many Italians went from the Apennines to the New World and back, although it's possible some sailor made the trip. :) I think it's more likely to be some holdover either from ANE bearing people during the Metal Ages, or some settled Alans during the Roman or Byzantine period.

Ed. Hold on...now that the Etruscan theories are all up in the air again, maybe it came from them as part of the Metal Ages Migrations. I've always thought some of the Etruscans had a rather "Asian" look. The boundary was the Magra River, so some of them could have have left some of their genetic material in our areas.
 
And little known historical facts can be quite relevant. The Basques had a cod fishery for several centuries in what is now the Canadian province of Newfoundland. There is some evidence that it was established before or shortly after John Cabot "discovered" Newfoundland for the English crown. So the Basques had several centuries to mingle with the Native people of Newfoundland before the Newfoundland Natives became extinct. That could account for any apparent Amerindian admixture among the Basques, although I think it could also be a false positive caused by a small amount of ANE reaching the Iberian peninsula without any Caucasian admixture. And other Spaniards eventually became involved in the Newfoundland fishery so could also have gotten some Amerindian ancestry from there.

The Venetian Zuanne Cabot ( John Cabot) read upon the manuscripts of the 3 Zeno brothers who traded from Venice to southampton and London in the 12th and 13th centuries. They got Cod from merchants from Norway and sent it back to Venice.......Venetians use Cod to this day as Bacala ( Tuscans refuse to use this venetian term and call it Stoccofisso after the dutch Stockfish ).

I never heard of basques to newfoundleand.............do you have a source?
 
The Venetian Zuanne Cabot ( John Cabot) read upon the manuscripts of the 3 Zeno brothers who traded from Venice to southampton and London in the 12th and 13th centuries. They got Cod from merchants from Norway and sent it back to Venice.......Venetians use Cod to this day as Bacala ( Tuscans refuse to use this venetian term and call it Stoccofisso after the dutch Stockfish ).

I never heard of basques to newfoundleand.............do you have a source?

Just do an internet search for "Basques" and "Newfoundland" and you'll find a lot of stuff about the French and Spanish Basques whale hunting and fishing for cod on the Grand Banks near Newfoundland definitely as early as 1520 and, according to one unproven theory, as early as 1372. The Basques had settlements on Newfoundland for centuries, mostly in the area around the town of Port Aux Basques- that's how it got its name. And Spanish fishermen to this day fish the nose and tail of the Grand Banks, just outside Canadian territorial waters, vacuuming up immature cod in violation of international law. That's why a lot of Canadians dislike Spaniards. Several years ago, our coast guard and national police seized a Spanish vessel and it caused quite the international incident.
 
OMG...Just so people are not confused...stoccafisso is air dried cod, as hard as wood; it should be listed as a lethal weapon! :) Baccala' is salted cod. Both must be soaked in cold water to reconstitute them. The people of Liguria and Toscana eat both, calling each by its proper name...

Baccala' alla Livornese (Livorno is in Toscana for those who might be geographically challenged), is my preferred method of preparing it.

Ed. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FFZjdUwEJOs/TxtciOsXzuI/AAAAAAAAAwA/09o3b5RPpEg/s1600/DSC_1337.jpg
 
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Well, it only makes sense. How could anyone imagine that no women carrying Amerindian mtDna haplogroups ever made the return trip back to Iberia?
Or Maybe A2 came over with the Solutreans. On Family Tree DNA's haplogroup A project, there's an A2 fellow there who listed his most distant known maternal ancestor as being born in Seville, Spain in 1508. That's cutting it a little close to 1492. I wouldn't be too surprised if some A2 ancient dna turned up in Europe sometime.
 
Or Maybe A2 came over with the Solutreans. On Family Tree DNA's haplogroup A project, there's an A2 fellow there who listed his most distant known maternal ancestor as being born in Seville, Spain in 1508. That's cutting it a little close to 1492. I wouldn't be too surprised if some A2 ancient dna turned up in Europe sometime.

You must be talking about Francisca de Alcocer, born 1508. She was the wife of Diego Temiño de Velasco. The person with that FTDNA kit has ancestry from Mexico and I seriously doubt that person has well documented genealogy for the maternal line. It is extremely likely there are many holes in the documented genealogy.

You should do a search of Catálogo de pasajeros a Indias durante los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII and read some of the entries. In it you will find people that are asking permission to return to the New World where they were originally from which proves people originally from the New World went to Europe in the 16th and 17th century. The person in the Asturias project probably doesn't have documented genealogy back that far.
 
You must be talking about Francisca de Alcocer, born 1508. She was the wife of Diego Temiño de Velasco. The person with that FTDNA kit has ancestry from Mexico and I seriously doubt that person has well documented genealogy for the maternal line. It is extremely likely there are many holes in the documented genealogy.

You should do a search of Catálogo de pasajeros a Indias durante los siglos XVI, XVII y XVIII and read some of the entries. In it you will find people that are asking permission to return to the New World where they were originally from which proves people originally from the New World went to Europe in the 16th and 17th century. The person in the Asturias project probably doesn't have documented genealogy back that far.

Okay, thanks for the info. Hopefully dna will sort these things out eventually.

If ydna Q-L54 made its way across the Atlantic with the Solutreans, I think C rather than A was the more likely accompanying mtdna haplogroup anyway. And I think A more likely came by way of the Bering Strait.

These ancient dna findings are really heating up now. Some of the Ancient Karelian dna belonged to mtdna C, including some 7,500 ybp samples that were C1. I thought they might possibly be connected with the Q-L54 in and around Scandinavia there, but if it turns out they were associated with proto-Yamna R1a then that would speak for that being the case.
 
Okay, thanks for the info. Hopefully dna will sort these things out eventually.

If ydna Q-L54 made its way across the Atlantic with the Solutreans, I think C rather than A was the more likely accompanying mtdna haplogroup anyway. And I think A more likely came by way of the Bering Strait.

These ancient dna findings are really heating up now. Some of the Ancient Karelian dna belonged to mtdna C, including some 7,500 ybp samples that were C1. I thought they might possibly be connected with the Q-L54 in and around Scandinavia there, but if it turns out they were associated with proto-Yamna R1a then that would speak for that being the case.

I have absolutely zero belief in the hypothesis that Solutreans crossed the Atlantic and contributed to the Clovis culture or their DNA. The Solutrean hypothesis is pure fantasy.
 

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