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Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 02:46
I'd like to hear the opinion of others especially, non-Americans on the Ferguson situation.

My opinion is that a Brown broke the law, attacked and dis-respected a Police officer, and then in self-defense the Police officer shot and killed Brown. This story was then exaggerated by the African-American community in Ferguson, became corrupted by gossip, and then our media got a hold of it and turned it into a race thing for all of America.

There is racism and prejudice in America, but using Ferguson as an example is hurting the cause. Our media is artificially creating a race-issue in America. No one was lynched, no one was denyed a job because of their race, etc. It just happens that the thug was black and the cop was white.

The fact <90% of African-Americans vote democrat, that if one doesn't support Obama they're seen by many fellow African-Americans as a traitor of their race, that most African-Americans believe there's racism in the Ferguson situation not because of the evidence but simply because they're black is a problem. So called modern civil-rights leaders like Jesse Jackson are about the African-American cause not the American or human cause.

Organizations like the NAACP and Democratic part which have alot of influence on African-American society are holding them back by putting them in a victim-mentality and keeping them segregated from the rest of America.

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 03:01
Ferguson is a reflection of a bigger problem of how America views Race.

In the 1960's you had a huge movement to eradicate racism in American society, which was good. But no movement or political agenda is all good. Out of that movement came people who were obsessed with racism, and covered up their own despise for white-people and traditional westernism(gender roles, etc.) with an anti-raciest, prejudice, etc. label. Which is exactly what the America media is doing now with articles about Ferguson.

Trust me I've witnessed it first hand. The way history is taught in America is how I've witnessed it. In 1st grade I had an African-American teacher who claimed to be apart of the civil rights movement, pro-Jesse Jackson, etc. Most of my curriculum was about European racism. One of our assignments was to talk about our heritage and I talked my European ancestors, and she gave a speech about how they were bad raciest. I was excluded from games by other kids because our teacher said white people are bad.

I was a little kid I was oblivious to social issues. But even without knowing much about America's past I was very offended and could tell my teacher and fellow classmates unjustly disliked white people.

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 03:04
If any known people who despise me on this forum(Angela, Lebrok, Aberdeen) I advise you to not be prejudice.

I know that when ever you see someone who leans to the right, you assume he's somehow a bigot and raciest. I advise to look at the situation with no bias. Your argument can't be sarcastic insults that you think makes you look intelligent. It's not a productive way to discuss. You have to argue with logic and facts.

Wilhelm
30-11-14, 04:05
Yes, I don't see how the police did anything wrong, they saw a black kid pointing them with a gun (even if it's fake), obviously the police will shoot. All of this fuss seems like bullshit to me. Plus, statiscially blacks are much more prone to crime than other races, so don't see how he police is prejudiced, he has all the right to be so if backed by statistics and experience, they probably deal mostly with black people.

Wilhelm
30-11-14, 04:09
By the way, two years ago one white man was killed by a black policeman, and it's almost uknown, it didn't make a fuss in the media :

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/2815/YjtRAx.png

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 05:16
Yes, I don't see how the police did anything wrong, they saw a black kid pointing them with a gun (even if it's fake), obviously the police will shoot. All of this fuss seems like bullshit to me. Plus, statiscially blacks are much more prone to crime than other races, so don't see how he police is prejudiced, he has all the right to be so if backed by statistics and experience, they probably deal mostly with black people.

I'm pretty sure Brown never pointed a gun at Wilson. Wilson claims Brown tried to grab his gun. Is there coverage of this story in Spain?

It's true they are more prone to crime, so oftnly it's smart to use the fact that someone comes from a specific sub-culture within African-American society as evidence they could be thugs. But Americans do oftnly profile black people as thugs or whatever, even when there isn't great evidence for it. There's a difference between being smart and wrongly profiling people.

There's an over reaction to profiling African-Americans, which causes the people who do wrongfully profile blacks to get angry and profile them even more. This is a never ending cycle in America. What needs to change is the way we correct racism.

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 05:23
By the way, two years ago one white man was killed by a black policeman, and it's almost uknown, it didn't make a fuss in the media :

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/2815/YjtRAx.png

I doubt this victim was in the right in this case either. Since when were criminals who didn't think of the consequences of dis respecting police authority, heroes? If Darren Wilson was killed by Brown, we wouldn't be hearing about it.

bicicleur
30-11-14, 11:56
i suppose in america, like everywhere in the world, there is true racism
but this case shows that people acusing other people of racism very often are racists themselves

Templar
30-11-14, 14:06
Out of that movement came people who were obsessed with racism, and covered up their own despise for white-people and traditional westernism(gender roles, etc.) with an anti-raciest, prejudice, etc. label.

Yes and those are called cultural marxists. They've been working on doing this for a lot longer than the 60s.

Wilhelm
30-11-14, 14:45
I doubt this victim was in the right in this case either. Since when were criminals who didn't think of the consequences of dis respecting police authority, heroes? If Darren Wilson was killed by Brown, we wouldn't be hearing about it.
It just shows you the hypocrisy of this whole thing, only when the victim is black and the police white is considered "racism" but for some reason not the reverse, and it doesn't even make it into the media.

Angela
30-11-14, 17:45
If any known people who despise me on this forum(Angela, Lebrok, Aberdeen) I advise you to not be prejudice.

I know that when ever you see someone who leans to the right, you assume he's somehow a bigot and raciest. I advise to look at the situation with no bias. Your argument can't be sarcastic insults that you think makes you look intelligent. It's not a productive way to discuss. You have to argue with logic and facts.

Do you claim clairvoyance now?

You have no idea what I think about Ferguson, or race relations in America in general, or race in the context of the criminal justice system, or where I specifically fall on the political spectrum. To maintain that you do is presumptuous, and furthermore is the type of stereotypical, one dimensional thinking which precludes honest debate and resolution of any issue, including the one of race in the criminal justice system and more generally in American society as a whole.

Anyone who thinks that black people never encounter racism at the hands of cops is living in la la land, as is anyone who thinks that a rich white kid with involved parents who can afford to hire decent lawyers isn't going to get a better outcome in the criminal justice system than a poor black kid from the projects raised by a single mother who has to rely on a rookie legal aid lawyer. A stint in any prosecutor's office in America would soon disabuse people of such simplistic notions.

None of that means that the specific case in question necessarily had anything to do with racism, or that there wasn't a rush to judgment by some people in the media who unhesitatingly took the word of a co-perpetrator in a robbery with regard to the exact sequence of events. All of this was done, in addition, without having any knowledge of the forensics evidence in the case or of the police procedural guidelines which would apply to such a situation. The forensics, in combination with properly vetted eye witness accounts, (discounting the witnesses who obviously perjured themselves) seem to support Officer Wilson's version of events, although the young man's actions still remain somewhat mysterious to me. A suspect stopped for quality of life infractions, or even a petty robbery, with no outstanding warrants or looming parole violations, doesn't normally reach into a cop car to grab an officer's gun. A toxicology report apparently didn't reveal anything out of the ordinary, but the lab should perhaps have tried to test for things like bath salts, which might be under the radar in Ferguson. That, or any history of psychiatric problems in the young man's past. The sequence of events after the officer exited the police car to give chase and keep the perpetrator in view are more problematical, although given that the forensics showed that the perpetrator was walking toward the officer when he was shot means that, in my opinion, no jury would ever have convicted the officer of a crime. In fact, in most cases, this type of case would never even go to the grand jury.

At the end of the day, this is a tragedy: a young man is dead, and a police officer who isn't much older, and who had never before used his firearm, has a ruined career and is facing death threats.

What saddens me is that so many people, from both sides of the political and racial divide, are so quick to make judgments without first even ascertaining the facts. Emotion and stereotypes are no substitute for dispassionate reason.

All of this is separate from the lawlessness and anarchy that reigned after the announcement of no true bill. That isn't protest. To burn down one's own neighborhood is nihilism.

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 21:04
Do you claim clairvoyance now?

You have no idea what I think about Ferguson, or race relations in America in general, or race in the context of the criminal justice system, or where I specifically fall on the political spectrum. To maintain that you do is presumptuous, and furthermore is the type of stereotypical, one dimensional thinking which precludes honest debate and resolution of any issue, including the one of race in the criminal justice system and more generally in American society as a whole.

Anyone who thinks that black people never encounter racism at the hands of cops is living in la la land, as is anyone who thinks that a rich white kid with involved parents who can afford to hire decent lawyers isn't going to get a better outcome in the criminal justice system than a poor black kid from the projects raised by a single mother who has to rely on a rookie legal aid lawyer. A stint in any prosecutor's office in America would soon disabuse people of such simplistic notions.

None of that means that the specific case in question necessarily had anything to do with racism, or that there wasn't a rush to judgment by some people in the media who unhesitatingly took the word of a co-perpetrator in a robbery with regard to the exact sequence of events. All of this was done, in addition, without having any knowledge of the forensics evidence in the case or of the police procedural guidelines which would apply to such a situation. The forensics, in combination with properly vetted eye witness accounts, (discounting the witnesses who obviously perjured themselves) seem to support Officer Wilson's version of events, although the young man's actions still remain somewhat mysterious to me. A suspect stopped for quality of life infractions, or even a petty robbery, with no outstanding warrants or looming parole violations, doesn't normally reach into a cop car to grab an officer's gun. A toxicology report apparently didn't reveal anything out of the ordinary, but the lab should perhaps have tried to test for things like bath salts, which might be under the radar in Ferguson. That, or any history of psychiatric problems in the young man's past. The sequence of events after the officer exited the police car to give chase and keep the perpetrator in view are more problematical, although given that the forensics showed that the perpetrator was walking toward the officer when he was shot means that, in my opinion, no jury would ever have convicted the officer of a crime. In fact, in most cases, this type of case would never even go to the grand jury.

At the end of the day, this is a tragedy: a young man is dead, and a police officer who isn't much older, and who had never before used his firearm, has a ruined career and is facing death threats.

What saddens me is that so many people, from both sides of the political and racial divide, are so quick to make judgments without first even ascertaining the facts. Emotion and stereotypes are no substitute for dispassionate reason.

All of this is separate from the lawlessness and anarchy that reigned after the announcement of no true bill. That isn't protest. To burn down one's own neighborhood is nihilism.

I always forget you live in America. I agree with you. After hearing the opinion of my teachers, peers, and even a few internationals online it encourages me, because I haven't heard anyone who is a die-hard on one side simply because of their race or background, and everyone is going for the same goal. Most African-Americans I've heard want the same resolution, just they are seeing the situation from a different perspective. If everyone stops assuming the other is a raciest and realizes we all want the same thing, we can work together, and make a better country. But gossiping and riots are preventing this from happened.


Do you claim clairvoyance now?

You have no idea what I think about Ferguson, or race relations in America in general, or race in the context of the criminal justice system, or where I specifically fall on the political spectrum. To maintain that you do is presumptuous, and furthermore is the type of stereotypical, one dimensional thinking which precludes honest debate and resolution of any issue, including the one of race in the criminal justice system and more generally in American society as a whole.

The reason for my statement is I've felt you and others have profiled me as someone I'm not, and insulted me. And a few people have assumed I'm raciest when I share my opinion on Ferguson. I'm usually not perfect at making judgement of other people.

Aberdeen
30-11-14, 21:23
Since I don't live in the U.S. and don't claim to understand the racial dynamic there, I'll only say one thing about it. It seems to me, as an outsider, that if fewer black men had been shot dead by American police over the last several years, perhaps fewer people would have rushed to judgment and assumed from the start that the killing in Ferguson was unjustified. Or have I got it wrong and everyone would have rushed to take sides anyway, like people choosing which soccer team they want to support? If so, I think your country is in a lot of trouble.

Fire Haired14
30-11-14, 22:47
Since I don't live in the U.S. and don't claim to understand the racial dynamic there, I'll only say one thing about it. It seems to me, as an outsider, that if fewer black men had been shot dead by American police over the last several years, perhaps fewer people would have rushed to judgment and assumed from the start that the killing in Ferguson was unjustified. Or have I got it wrong and everyone would have rushed to take sides anyway, like people choosing which soccer team they want to support? If so, I think your country is in a lot of trouble.

I rarely hear about black men getting killed by Police, but I think many people assume stuff like that's happening all the time. And yes alot(probably not most) of Americans would side with their race(or whoever represents their ideology) like they would a soccer team. This is why <90% of African-Americans vote for black politicians, why we have people like Jesse Jackson. I can give several examples of white people liking white athletes, simply because they're white. It encourages separation between Americans and encourages racism. And it seems no one with power and influence is standing up against this.

The reason people are making a big deal about Ferguson, is prejudice towards African-Americans, profiling of African-Americans, and Police brutality. They see Ferguson as an example of all these things and a sign racism is still alive and well. Many of the people who see racism in it though will never say racism is dead though. They oftnly create raciest straw-men to complain about. This makes it hard to distinguish between real raciest and straw-men.

Angela
30-11-14, 23:57
There are many people of good will who just want to do the right thing, but they are drowned out by the people with a political or racial ax to grind, or money to be made. After all, one of the major reasons that no true bill was returned was because African Americans voluntarily contacted the DA's office to report what they had seen, even if it put them at risk from some members of their own community. In my opinion, a lot of the blame lies with the media, most of them white, by the way, who rush to judgment before having all the facts, perhaps out of ideology, but also partly, I think, for ratings.

The larger problem is that the black underclass is sinking into a morass of poverty, broken or never existent families, and alcohol and drug abuse. Young men and women are being raised without proper parenting, in my opinion, have few practical, marketable skills, are jobless and have nothing to do, and have too much access to alcohol and drugs. The crime rate in these communities, virtually all of it black on black crime, is staggering. Yet the police, who are sent in to keep order, are distrusted, and some of them deserve to be distrusted. It would help if there were more black police officers, but despite all sorts of incentives and accommodations, they don't come forward.

We need more proactive community outreach programs by the police departments, and just as, if not more importantly, responsible leadership by black community leaders, but instead they repeat the same narrative whether it is pretty outdated or applies in a particular situation or not. That does their community no good and alienates the white community. I used to agree with Rudy Giuliani that putting cameras on the police was a bad idea, but this has changed my mind. The bad apples in the police department will watch their step, and there wouldn't be any more canned responses to police action by criminals.

It's just so depressing to see the potential of a whole generation of young people wasted, and it doesn't bode well for the future of the country.

Ed. Nor is this type of dysfunction limited to black communities. It's also becoming prevalent in very poor white communities.

mihaitzateo
05-12-14, 00:41
My opinion is that the administration of mr Obama is giving the US police too much freedom to act violently against non-armed civilians.
Remember how the "Occupy Wall Street" movement was repressed .
I do not think it has anything to do with race,what happened to Ferguson.
It has to do with the brutality of US police which is supported by the current Obama administration.
And look how the news agencies are not telling the truth,considering the frequent abuses of police in US.
For example,a video had became viral on internet,on how a peaceful African person is harassed by a police officer and almost arrested,because he was walking with his hands in his pockets.
See how both cnet and huffingtonpost are presenting distorted versions of the story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/01/brandon-mckean-walking-with-hands-in-pockets_n_6242584.html
So,the man walked six or seven times in front of a store?
Oh really!
In cnet version,police was called by the owner of a stored who was robbed 7 times in the past:
http://www.cnet.com/news/two-phone-standoff-after-cop-stops-man-for-walking-with-hands-in-pockets/
So which is the truth?
Did anyone really called 911 to complain about an African man who was walking there?
I do not know,but I find hard to believe what cnet or huffingtonpost are writing,because they are writing aftter the video was put on youtube and it seems to me they are trying to make excuses for this police new abuse.
So cnet published this story on 1st of December while the mvie was posted on 27th of November by some people,anyway,this happened on thanksgiving day so it is clear it happened in the noon of 27th November.
Why cnet is posting the story 3 days later?
Do they think we are idiots and they are manipulating us how they like?
And huffingtonpost is publishing a different version of the story even later.