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View Full Version : Is Haplogroup C6 in australoid ? found in La brana australoid



Gurka atla
05-12-14, 10:13
I understand that haplogroup C3 is Mongoloid related with Mongolians, Buryats, Evenkis Manchus, Koreans and dated around 11,000 years ago. But Australian aborigines C4 is like 42,000 years ago.


C1 is possibly a jomon marker?


C2 is typical of Australoids like Papuans


C4 is typical of Australian aborigines


C5 is found in straight haired but very australoid looking people South India, is also found in dravidian speakers and people of north india, pakistan, nepal, arabia


C6 is found in La brana Iberia dating like 7000 years ago.

He looks more a south Indian man with blue eyes.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Om6uNP8WqVI/UuW0UaLeKGI/AAAAAAAAJec/8mZ_0eqk9T0/s1600/1389897619717-rekonstruktion.jpg

He actually looks more like these than European.


This is a South Indian blue eye ( Australoid blue eyed )

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7317/11258592794_f2af19eeae_z.jpg

Gurka atla
05-12-14, 10:51
Is strange and weird how C5 is found high frequencies in southern india tribe but is much more diverse in north india. pakistan.

Could C5 be ancestor of C6?

My impression of La brana is that of a south Indian australoid with blue eyes. Is not that uncommon to find South Indian tribals (0% caucasian admixture ) with blue eyes.



You can blue eyes from the brown skinned to the blackest skinned of south indian tribe and haplogroup C5 is found high in certain tribal of tamil province.

http://data3.whicdn.com/images/34810178/thumb.jpg

http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7006/6436153145_7bd1112b89_m.jpg

http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/18220/wm/pd845236.jpg
http://www.chicagonow.com/eclectic-body/files/2012/01/indian-boy-blue-eyes.png


Albino south Indian man with blue eyes, hair was originally blonde

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1097/1428622796_2cf31e8d07_b.jpg

bicicleur
05-12-14, 14:53
your using the old names
new names are in
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpC.html
old new
C1 C1a1
C6 C1a2
C5 C1b1
C3 C2
C2 C1b2
C4 C1c
so C1b1 (old C5) is not ancestral to C1a2 (old C6)
C1b1 probably originated in Punjab during last ice age (20.000 years ago) where it is most diverse and spread south
blue eyes could come from mixing with R2 who came from Siberia during last ice age and moved south via Hindu Kush & Khyberpas
La Brana C1a2 (old C6) is probably very old in Europe - 40 to 50000 years - and must have been admixed with other European mesolithic HG, probably I.

Alan
05-12-14, 17:42
C,D,F,E are far too old and to close to the root to be classified as West or East Eurasian. I assume these four Haplogroups were something like Proto Eurasians.

You can find C* in West Eurasians (La Brana and some Hungarian neolithic dude) and East Eurasians. You can find D in East Eurasians (Jomon) and West Eurasians (Kalash).

Also interesting that people which are dominated by this Haplogroup show always physical features typical for both West and East Eurasians. The Australoids look neither like East Asian nor West Eurasians. Jomon were thought to be Caucasoids for a long time. Kalash show some Amerindian like features.

If even Haplogroup K*, which is downstream to F* had not yet evolved into more West or East Eurasian like. How can we expect that F* or it's brotherclades C*,D*,E* already had?

So I would tend to call them simply Eurasian Haplogroups.

Gurka atla
05-12-14, 20:02
your using the old names
new names are in
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpC.html
old new
C1 C1a1
C6 C1a2
C5 C1b1
C3 C2
C2 C1b2
C4 C1c
so C1b1 (old C5) is not ancestral to C1a2 (old C6)
C1b1 probably originated in Punjab during last ice age (20.000 years ago) where it is most diverse and spread south
blue eyes could come from mixing with R2 who came from Siberia during last ice age and moved south via Hindu Kush & Khyberpas
La Brana C1a2 (old C6) is probably very old in Europe - 40 to 50000 years - and must have been admixed with other European mesolithic HG, probably I.

I'm guessing the original carrier of haplogroup C1a2 look like Australian aborigines existed since they 42,000 years ago.

Very strange looking race. Straight haired, but super broad/wide noses and fat lips. They don't look African blacks but they look nowhere close to Caucasian or Mongoloid. Maybe like the southern Indians australoids tribal.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/13/world/13aborig.600.1.jpg


I forgot the name of this tribe that have 68% haplogroup C5, including something like 20% R1a 10% J2 ( although they are only 8,000 population ).

The truth is haplogroup C5 is pretty rare in South India with exception of a few isolated tribes, is actually more common in one North India province but less than 15%

They look something like this but with much wavier hair
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Indus/dravidian_2.jpg

Gurka atla
05-12-14, 20:23
C,D,F,E are far too old and to close to the root to be classified as West or East Eurasian. I assume these four Haplogroups were something like Proto Eurasians.

You can find C* in West Eurasians (La Brana and some Hungarian neolithic dude) and East Eurasians. You can find D in East Eurasians (Jomon) and West Eurasians (Kalash).

Also interesting that people which are dominated by this Haplogroup show always physical features typical for both West and East Eurasians. The Australoids look neither like East Asian nor West Eurasians. Jomon were thought to be Caucasoids for a long time. Kalash show some Amerindian like features.

If even Haplogroup K*, which is downstream to F* had not yet evolved into more West or East Eurasian like. How can we expect that F* or it's brotherclades C*,D*,E* already had?

So I would tend to call them simply Eurasian Haplogroups.


But C3 is clearly Eastern Eurasian. It reachest as high as 61-90% in the evenki and other Tungustic tribes and autosomal DNA seems to show they are 100% Mongoloid/East Asia with no sign of caucasian or australoid admixture.


I'm just surprised most of the groups who carried haplogroup C are black skinned race with australoid appearance. And the Jomons? I'm so confused with them. You have people claiming they were caucasian or pale australoids but on wiki it claimed they are proto-mongoloid.

I had read from a Japanese that said the Jomon who carried haplogroup C1 look exactly the same as the Jomon who carried haplogroup D2.

Jomon on the left, Yayoi in the right.

The Jomons clearly look Caucasian yet Japanese including western anthropologist and scientist denies this claim instead claiming they are polynesian or light skin pacific islander.

http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201008/23/61/c0222861_1329190.jpg







" Anthropologist Joseph Powell of the University of New Mexico (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_New_Mexico) said that the Ainu descend from the Jōmon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dmon) people who are an East Asian population with "closest biological affinity with south-east Asians rather than western Eurasian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Eurasian) peoples".[44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_people#cite_note-NPS_Chapter_2-44) "

" Omoto has also shown that the Ainu are Mongoloid, and not Caucasoid, on the basis of fingerprints and dental morphology.[48] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ainu_people#cite_note-48) Turner found remains of Jōmon people of Japan to belong to Sundadont (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinodonty_and_Sundadonty) pattern similar with the Southern Mongoloid living populations of Taiwanese aborigines, Filipinos, Indonesians, Thais, Borneans, Laotians, and Malaysians. "


According to this map Jomons are basically Southeast Asians who don't look Southeast Asians?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Mongoloid_Australoid_Negrito_Asia_Distribution_of_ Asian_peoples_Sinodont_Sundadont.GIF/640px-Mongoloid_Australoid_Negrito_Asia_Distribution_of_ Asian_peoples_Sinodont_Sundadont.GIF

Gurka atla
05-12-14, 20:39
Do Ainu really look like these people? Could polynesians look Ainu with white skinned and extra beard?

There are a few polynesian tribe that produces long beards but ussually few. For example these polynesian chiefs have more beard.

Just like the Ainu and Jomons, there is no trace of Caucasian DNA evidence yet these people look Caucasian? or is this just some strange morphology that gives out a pseudo-caucasian appearance? I mean just because they don't look like Asians doesn't mean they have to be Caucasians.

http://www.cook-szigetek.com/assets/images/oceania/Waikatochief3_005.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Topia_turoa.jpg


Others also claim they are light skinned veddas ( aboriginal group in sri lanka )

http://travellanka.ru/leftmenu1/veddas4.jpg

sparkey
05-12-14, 20:47
To put things in perspective, C1 and C6 split from one another around the same time that, say, the branch that R is on was splitting from P1, common among the Aeta (Phillipine natives). Surely, later R carriers have had little to do with the Aeta, because there is so much time between them. I think the same goes for C1 and C6. Although, knowing that C1 is C6's closest relative gives us some idea of the direction it came from.