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vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 05:12
the viking germanic haplogroup I has its roots in the haplogroup J of the ancient phoenicians

compare phoenician alphabet from which european alphabet is derived to nordic runes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jg7SjUKdM_U/TlwSfk2NUdI/AAAAAAAAGag/7dNK3h883QE/s400/phoenician-runes.jpg

phoenician longboat vs norman longboat
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aXjKcXxCopY/TlwSlzhkl0I/AAAAAAAAGa4/cEFCjyhU-8U/s400/normans-phoenician.jpg

Haplogroup I, which grew out of the broader haplotype IJ. In this sense, the closest to haplogroup I is the J haplogroup.

LeBrok
12-12-14, 06:39
the viking germanic haplogroup I has its roots in the haplogroup J of the ancient phoenicians

compare phoenician alphabet from which european alphabet is derived to nordic runes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jg7SjUKdM_U/TlwSfk2NUdI/AAAAAAAAGag/7dNK3h883QE/s400/phoenician-runes.jpg

phoenician longboat vs norman longboat
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aXjKcXxCopY/TlwSlzhkl0I/AAAAAAAAGa4/cEFCjyhU-8U/s400/normans-phoenician.jpg

Haplogroup I, which grew out of the broader haplotype IJ. In this sense, the closest to haplogroup I is the J haplogroup.

I and J have split from mother clad IJ about 35 thousands years ago. Do you think Phoenicians existed in paleolithic?


I'm going to give you a ridiculous example by using your logic of quick assumptions.
This is Russia car Wolga 1975
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/GAZ-24_%22Volga%22_in_Estonia.jpg/240px-GAZ-24_%22Volga%22_in_Estonia.jpg

And this is American Ford Falcon 1968
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzQTatzc3tjwqgkp__LgeY2AbiIa_1e XX_1DYe0Sqsi0zzeUnCtw

Do you think Americans are forefathers of Russians? Afterall they are related through hg R1.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 15:09
I and J have split from mother clad IJ about 35 thousands years ago. Do you think Phoenicians existed in paleolithic?


I'm going to give you a ridiculous example by using your logic of quick assumptions.
This is Russia car Wolga 1975
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/GAZ-24_%22Volga%22_in_Estonia.jpg/240px-GAZ-24_%22Volga%22_in_Estonia.jpg

And this is American Ford Falcon 1968
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRzQTatzc3tjwqgkp__LgeY2AbiIa_1e XX_1DYe0Sqsi0zzeUnCtw

Do you think Americans are forefathers of Russians? Afterall they are related through hg R1.

More on Phoenicians in Scandinavia
The Scandinavian Bronze Age started very suddenly about 1800 BC (it is claimed?? Brit-Am would place it about 900 years later) with a very high culture and the artifacts deteriorated in quality over the centuries. The earlier artifacts are almost identical with similar finds from the Phoenician and the pre-hellenic or Achaean culture in Greek Mycaene. This is interpreted as the Phoenicians established trading colonies in Scandinavia and introducing their culture and gods. The god Baal (later in Scandinavian mythology known as Balder) would have been introduced at that time.
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesPhoenicians.html

LeBrok
12-12-14, 16:18
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesPhoenicians.html

Where is the proof of relation Vikings to phoenicians? I suggest you use the strict sciences instead of your eyes. Genetic or linguistic proof will be fine. And genetic means DNA sequencing, and not posting pictures of phoenicians and vikings.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 16:29
Where is the proof of relation Vikings to phoenicians? I suggest you use the strict sciences instead of your eyes. Genetic or linguistic proof will be fine. And genetic means DNA sequencing, and not posting pictures of phoenicians and vikings.
as we all know haplogroup J is closely related to haplogroup I (viking dna) so ther must have been a northward migration of haplogroup J from which the haplogroup I came into being

ancient phoenicians have identical runic alphabet and they worshiped BAAL the horned god coincidentally the vikings had same type of ships and horned helmets and worshipped BALdur

Aaron1981
12-12-14, 16:57
the viking germanic haplogroup I has its roots in the haplogroup J of the ancient phoenicians


The two have nothing in common. One of the pitfalls of using alphabet for nomenclature. You immediately assume they are close because they are adjacent in the alphabet. You forget the most important variable - time.

John Doe
12-12-14, 17:33
as we all know haplogroup J is closely related to haplogroup I (viking dna) so ther must have been a northward migration of haplogroup J from which the haplogroup I came into being

ancient phoenicians have identical runic alphabet and they worshiped BAAL the horned god coincidentally the vikings had same type of ships and horned helmets and worshipped BALdur
Actually the Vikings had no horned helmets, that was invented in the 19th century, and as it has been pointed out, J and I split tens of thousands of years ago, long before the Phoenicians or the vikings and deep into pre history. As for the Phoenician alphabet, it has influenced both Latin (and therefore west European) and Greek (therefore east European) alphabets.

gyms
12-12-14, 18:35
"haplogroup I (viking dna)"

Hmm...

John Doe
12-12-14, 18:57
"haplogroup I (viking dna)"

Hmm...

Let's also not forget that while the Vikings were Norse not all Norsemen were Vikings, being a Viking was usually something that one had to do because he didn't inherit anything.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 22:00
Let's also not forget that while the Vikings were Norse not all Norsemen were Vikings, being a Viking was usually something that one had to do because he didn't inherit anything.
without doubt the phoenicians were in scandinavia and britain and left a strong cultural influence there, do some research on it..

John Doe
12-12-14, 22:16
without doubt the phoenicians were in scandinavia and britain and left a strong cultural influence there, do some research on it..
They may have traded there, and influenced the Scandinavian alphabet (via influencing the Greek and Latin ones), but there's no evidence of a huge genetic or cultural contribution. Genetic evidence may only be found or not found via ancient DNA analysis of Phoenician and Viking skeletons.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 22:54
strange coincidences hmm..

coat of arms beirut(ancient phoenicians):
6934

britain, vikings and usa(maritime law):
6935

Aberdeen
12-12-14, 23:13
without doubt the phoenicians were in scandinavia and britain and left a strong cultural influence there, do some research on it..

Since the matter is "without doubt", you should be able to point us to books and research papers about Phoenicians in Scandinavia and Britain, books and research papers written by professors at major universities.

vigilantexplorer
12-12-14, 23:26
http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news304_anthems.html

who do you think runs "major universities"?! omg.. those who want you to know how true history looks like?!, if you believe this then you are naive, try to do your own research.. what mainstream science says doesn not alwys match the objective truh!

vikings and phoenicians both share the same ancestors(haplogroup IJ)

http://www.10452lccc.com/leb%20history/phoenicians8.12.07.pdf

Aberdeen
13-12-14, 00:29
http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news304_anthems.html

who do you think runs "major universities"?! omg.. those who want you to know how true history looks like?!, if you believe this then you are naive, try to do your own research..

vikings and phoenicians both share the same ancestors(haplogroup IJ)

http://www.10452lccc.com/leb%20history/phoenicians8.12.07.pdf

Thanks. I think you've given me sufficient information to allow me to form an opinion about your views.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 00:49
Thanks. I think you've given me sufficient information to allow me to form an opinion about your views.
whatever your opinion has formed into, it still remains subjective and shaped by your own expectations/perceptions

what is so hard to understand or what seems so illogical to you?!

i proved to you the scandinavians and phoenicians both share the haplogroup IJ
i showed you the very similar runic alphabets of vikings and phoenicians
i showed you the similar ship design of both folks
i showed you the exact similarity between the british(gerat britain was founded by nordic vikings) navy flag and the viking flag and the lebanese beirut coat of arms(ancient phoenicia)
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesPhoenicians.html

what else do you need as proof they both share the same ancestry?

LeBrok
13-12-14, 02:03
whatever your opinion has formed into, it still remains subjective and shaped by your own expectations/perceptions

what is so hard to understand or what seems so illogical to you?!

i proved to you the scandinavians and phoenicians both share the haplogroup IJ
i showed you the very similar runic alphabets of vikings and phoenicians
i showed you the similar ship design of both folks
i showed you the exact similarity between the british(gerat britain was founded by nordic vikings) navy flag and the viking flag and the lebanese beirut coat of arms(ancient phoenicia)
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesPhoenicians.html

what else do you need as proof they both share the same ancestry?
This is precious, lol.
Even if we assume that Vikings major haplogroup was I and phoenicians J, which is speculative due to lack of genetic research of both groups, their common IJ ancestor lived 35 thousand years ago! There was no alphabets, there were no big boats, there were no Vikings, there was no Phoenician culture. How could Vikings adopt something as old as 35k years ago, if all of this didn't exist!!!???

I think you have some spatial impairment. You don't grasp how long 35K years is, and you jump from India to Ireland like to the next door neighbor, without slightest explanation, or even consideration for the stuff in between.

khufu
13-12-14, 02:46
This is probably the relationship between vikings and phoenicians

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080624-arab-dane.html

LeBrok
13-12-14, 03:33
This is probably the relationship between vikings and phoenicians

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080624-arab-dane.html

They say, and I agree, that he came up there most likely by Roman influence. Neither carthage or phoenicia existed at this time.


The study analyzed 18 well-preserved bodies from two burial sites dating from 0 to A.D. 400 in eastern Denmark (http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/places/countries/country_denmark.html). The sites were originally excavated some 20 years ago.

Aberdeen
13-12-14, 06:05
This is probably the relationship between vikings and phoenicians

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080624-arab-dane.html

So, what was the "Arab" haplotype? Some kind of mtDNA common in the Middle East, apparently, but is it in fact unknown in Europe or just a minority lineage? The person could have been a German with a haplotype that's more common in the Middle East than Europe. Look at all the people thinking Hitler must have been part Jewish just because his Y haplotype was E1b1b. A similar situation, perhaps.

bicicleur
13-12-14, 12:39
So, what was the "Arab" haplotype? Some kind of mtDNA common in the Middle East, apparently, but is it in fact unknown in Europe or just a minority lineage? The person could have been a German with a haplotype that's more common in the Middle East than Europe. Look at all the people thinking Hitler must have been part Jewish just because his Y haplotype was E1b1b. A similar situation, perhaps.

arabs are J1-P58 ; Y-DNA is even unknown here
only some mtDNA related to bedouins, which is not the same

Aberdeen
13-12-14, 15:06
arabs are J1-P58 ; Y-DNA is even unknown here
only some mtDNA related to bedouins, which is not the same

The article specifically says mitochondrial, in other words, mtDNA.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 15:08
This is precious, lol.
Even if we assume that Vikings major haplogroup was I and phoenicians J, which is speculative due to lack of genetic research of both groups, their common IJ ancestor lived 35 thousand years ago! There was no alphabets, there were no big boats, there were no Vikings, there was no Phoenician culture. How could Vikings adopt something as old as 35k years ago, if all of this didn't exist!!!???

I think you have some spatial impairment. You don't grasp how long 35K years is, and you jump from India to Ireland like to the next door neighbor, without slightest explanation, or even consideration for the stuff in between.

who exactly told you there was a split 35000 years ago?!(official historians?) i never told you the phoenicians and vikings are 35000 years old so this is your logical fallacy not mine
i think your major problem is you cannot think holistically and put pieces together(i fear you are one of those guys who still believes columbus was the first in america because they still teach it in schools), reminds me of western medicine.. no offense! buddy

just do some research on the connection between denmark britain and phoenicians before you accuse me of having a lack of logic! as far as indian-irish connection goes, there is a lot of evidence all europeans which share haplogroup R came in from indian through russian steppes into europe! we share similar linguistics, dna, similar gods etc. what is not logical here?! indra(thor/zeus) etc. the swstika comes from india and is found in every nation of europe which has haplogroup R from celts to germans to slavs to basques.. which all share the same haplogroup as indians

i am always astonished how much ignorance and denial there is in lot of people..

same dna the only difference is pigmentation
6939

6940

khufu
13-12-14, 15:44
This is probably the relationship between vikings and phoenicians

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080624-arab-dane.html

They say, and I agree, that he came up there most likely by Roman influence. Neither carthage or phoenicia existed at this time.

my groups dna z830 and m123 and m34 real semitic and bedouins and scientists of haplogroup R messing with us
they say
we suggest that this subject was a soldier or a slave, or a descendant of a female slave
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18046774

bedouins that time was Emperors of Rome !

and thise mtdna same bedouins hyxsus pharoah mtdna r0a

khufu
13-12-14, 15:58
So, what was the "Arab" haplotype? Some kind of mtDNA common in the Middle East, apparently, but is it in fact unknown in Europe or just a minority lineage? The person could have been a German with a haplotype that's more common in the Middle East than Europe. Look at all the people thinking Hitler must have been part Jewish just because his Y haplotype was E1b1b. A similar situation, perhaps.
I do not think Hitler was a Jews and e1b1b1 in north europe nore more than greec time

What the meaning of Aberdeen is city but what mean

Aberdeen
13-12-14, 16:41
who exactly told you there was a split 35000 years ago?!(official historians?) i never told you the phoenicians and vikings are 35000 years old so this is your logical fallacy not mine
i think your major problem is you cannot think holistically and put pieces together(i fear you are one of those guys who still believes columbus was the first in america because they still teach it in schools), reminds me of western medicine.. no offense! buddy

just do some research on the connection between denmark britain and phoenicians before you accuse me of having a lack of logic! as far as indian-irish connection goes, there is a lot of evidence all europeans which share haplogroup R came in from indian through russian steppes into europe! we share similar linguistics, dna, similar gods etc. what is not logical here?! indra(thor/zeus) etc. the swstika comes from india and is found in every nation of europe which has haplogroup R from celts to germans to slavs to basques.. which all share the same haplogroup as indians

i am always astonished how much ignorance and denial there is in lot of people..

same dna the only difference is pigmentation
6939

6940

Actually, it was an official geneticist, not an official historian, who told us that haplogroup IJ split into I and J about 35,000 years ago. Official Genetics is a different conspiracy than Official History, although it's possible that both are controlled by the Illuminata and North Korean spies.

Some people explain the linguistic and genetic similarities between Europeans and people from India in part by suggesting that a group of people called the Indo-Europeans spread out from southern Russia, with one group going west into Europe and another going east toward India. You'll find hundreds of threads about that in this forum. But if you want to imagine that the Indo-Europeans spread across Europe by way of India, I guess that makes sense as long as you don't actually look at a map.

Aberdeen
13-12-14, 16:51
I do not think Hitler was a Jews and e1b1b1 in north europe nore more than greec time

What the meaning of Aberdeen is city but what mean

There's an entire thread on this forum about Hitler and E1b1b. I agree with those who think he just belonged to a haplogroup that's a minority in Austria but which has apparently been there since the Neolithic.

I chose Aberdeen for my forum name because some of my ancestors came from there.

vigilantexplorer
13-12-14, 17:56
Actually, it was an official geneticist, not an official historian, who told us that haplogroup IJ split into I and J about 35,000 years ago. Official Genetics is a different conspiracy than Official History, although it's possible that both are controlled by the Illuminata and North Korean spies.

Some people explain the linguistic and genetic similarities between Europeans and people from India in part by suggesting that a group of people called the Indo-Europeans spread out from southern Russia, with one group going west into Europe and another going east toward India. You'll find hundreds of threads about that in this forum. But if you want to imagine that the Indo-Europeans spread across Europe by way of India, I guess that makes sense as long as you don't actually look at a map.
even our slavic ancestors have stories about how they left india, and by the way the nordic mythological asgard was the ancient homeland of the r1b people (turkmenistan)

i see the only one who cannot red maps is you..

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8FojkPDUgyg/VIeNqtITGOI/AAAAAAAASOo/ALG1D2r_ry0/s1600/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA).PNG

r1b migrated into europe from west asia, r1a from india, any other conclusion is just based on your subjective opinions and denial.

also you deny the scientific fact that red hair and blonde hair is tyrosinase defect and has nothing to do with adaptation to low uv or cold climate, northerners still have the highest skin cancer rate(my aunt sadly died of skin cancer) and get rickets(which debunks the theory white skin gets more vitamin d) even in their latitude and many people in my family had eyes surgeries because of oca(which is not funny at all)!!! not to tell you almost everyone must wear glasses, its not funny i am slavic white european i for sure know what i am speaking about. i am into scientific facts which prove we are oca1b not ├╝bermenschen! hitlers theory based on denial of tyrosinase defect(oca1b) and inferiority complex lead us to racism and a false feeling that our recessive genes are something superior to the rest of humanity which has healthy melanin levels..

http://www.visionfortomorrow.org/genetics-of-albinism/

so here we have our ginger irish and germanic "aryan" ├╝bermenschen
6941

LeBrok
13-12-14, 19:30
who exactly told you there was a split 35000 years ago?!(official historians?) i never told you the phoenicians and vikings are 35000 years old so this is your logical fallacy not mine
i think your major problem is you cannot think holistically and put pieces together(i fear you are one of those guys who still believes columbus was the first in america because they still teach it in schools), reminds me of western medicine.. no offense! buddy

As you said, my analysis are based on science and your's on your fantazy, and you think you have offended me? Thanks for opening up. Nobody will take you seriously now, no offence.

LeBrok
13-12-14, 19:38
even our slavic ancestors have stories about how they left india You are a lier. There are no such stories.




also you deny the scientific fact that red hair and blonde hair is tyrosinase defect It is defect when happens india and is called Albinism. In Europeans it comes from mutations of many genes, and being beneficial, adopted by all inhabitants. In india, it never was beneficial, therefore only exists as a sickness. Can't you finally get it and stop repeating it?


and has nothing to do with adaptation to low uv or cold climate, northerners still have the highest skin cancer rate(my aunt sadly died of skin cancer) and get rickets(which debunks the theory white skin gets more vitamin d) even in their latitude and many people in my family had eyes surgeries because of oca(which is not funny at all)!!! not to tell you almost everyone must wear glasses, its not funny i am slavic white european i for sure know what i am speaking about. i am into scientific facts which At least we know now that by "scientific fact" you mean your fantasy world.





so here we have our ginger irish and germanic "aryan" ├╝bermenschen
6941 Are you a racist too? Vedun was.

holderlin
15-12-14, 06:51
Amazing

.
.
.

holderlin
15-12-14, 07:01
Although it's nice to know I'm not the most mentally challenged on these boards.

We need an Atlantis subforum bad, but I want to make the first thread. It will be about Aryans from the hole in the North Pole emerging during Teh Golden Age and how The Sphinx, TRB, and Neanderthals support my theory.

vigilantexplorer
15-12-14, 18:36
i did not say phoenicians were white blondes is said they heavily influenced both britain and scandinavia and are also genetically related to the nordic haplogroup I because they are J so closest relatives from IJ line..

Maleth
15-12-14, 19:39
i did not say phoenicians were white blondes is said they heavily influenced both britain and scandinavia and are also genetically related to the nordic haplogroup I because they are J so closest relatives from IJ line..

the higher percentages of J2's and J1 found in the south of Europe, and some other regions is what gives them a particular distinctive look which is NOT found in I1 dominant countries such as the Scandinavian ones. Phenotype s are miles apart

khufu
16-12-14, 03:02
There's an entire thread on this forum about Hitler and E1b1b. I agree with those who think he just belonged to a haplogroup that's a minority in Austria but which has apparently been there since the Neolithic.

I chose Aberdeen for my forum name because some of my ancestors came from there.


There's an entire thread on this forum about Hitler and E1b1b. I agree with those who think he just belonged to a haplogroup that's a minority in Austria but which has apparently been there since the Neolithic.

I chose Aberdeen for my forum name because some of my ancestors came from there.

Aberdeen is arabic-anglo word not indo-europian

Not a problem if you do not know what it means

germanic tribe also they dont know what alemanni means

thise word arbic-saxony same Nicolas Cage or knight herman slagle op bavaria

https://www.houseofnames.com/slagle-family-crest

There are Arabs in northern Europe will have access to their own mutation 2000 years y-dna M84

thise The Little Prince grave with With bodyguard haplogroup y-dna R

The first Germanic Revolution owners Name arianism

Second Revolution with hitler name aryanism

maybe thise kid same hitler line

But scientists have made this kid son of slave becous his y-dna e1b1b1 not j1 or any of F groups

They put themselves in an awkward position

Emperor of Rome Nomad belong to be M84

pharaoh hyxsus belong to be Z830 as you see OK E-M35 R0a I do not care too much OK E-M123 L5a1 becous mtdna african

OK A-M13 L3f
Ok A-M13 L0a1
OK B-M150 L3d
OK E-M2 L3e5
OK E-M2 L2a1
OK E-M123 L5a1
OK E-M35 R0a
OK E-M41 L2a1
OK E-M41 L1b1a
OK E-M75 M1
OK E-M78 L4b
OK J-M267 L3i
OK R-M173 L2
OK T-M184 L0a

All of these Valley of the Kings mtdn from south egyptian black even R-M173 came from south asia to ethiopian to sudan

Now scientists haplogroup in trouble In Germany and egyptian

Do they think that people are stupid when they say R1b in egypt bedouins !

We Bedouins

Now they can not prove that The King Tut is son of ekhnatone

Because they messed with us again

The status of Tut now like the bastard son Son of Queen server

I do not think that But they believe that now

Pharaoh Nomad Of brotherly Babylonian same nimrod line same Rockefeller and Rothschild and Einstein all in one cluster z830*

Hidden Kingdom may have heard them

The same line Tribe No 12 That came out with the children of Israel from Egypt Tribe Samaritan King Saul and antichrist

Not the same napolion line but maybe same hitler line if hitler not arab-saxony

Conclusion

R1b as son of Giants Bedouin z830 same m123

Have no glory without z830 groups

they dont need palter with us

They have to announce kid y-dna in nordik And work compared mtdna with the pharaoh

We do not claim that we are the oldest there But it is wrong to be ignored my groups z830 groups

It's like the ambush

Other thing

z830 groups not black in past or now

Ramsis III e1b1a not found in african nigros

Ramsis III v43+ m2- in egypt and sudan and arab land

is anyone know about that no they think is nigro For this, the result came out to the public

There are more important than tut and ramsis III in egypt pharaohs

khufu
16-12-14, 03:40
arabs are J1-P58 ; Y-DNA is even unknown here
only some mtDNA related to bedouins, which is not the same

arabs are J1-P58 ; Y-DNA is even unknown here
only some mtDNA related to bedouins, which is not the same
This another messes from haplogroups J

They claim Semites and Bedouins

No found J1 or j2 in near east 4000 years ago

you can found more than 7000 years but that not mean was there befor 4000 years and that what happened in europe they say j2 greec after that say indo-europe but if not be in near east befor 4000 years how they say was in europe befor that

Maybe in the past were able to fool people but not now

maybe r1b was in neareast befor 4000 years

This is because we have allowed you to live with us

The way thanks from R Not good

Maleth
16-12-14, 10:39
Aberdeen is arabic-anglo word not indo-europian

Not a problem if you do not know what it means.

Hallo and Salam Khufu. Aberdeen as a name is Celtic in origin meaning Mouth of in this case Deen which would be the river name, so it will not be Semetic or Arabic. What would be the arabic connection you are refering too? (I speak a semetic language so I will find your answer interesting to the relation of this name)



There are Arabs in northern Europe will have access to their own mutation 2000 years y-dna M84..................

I appreciate the effort and fact that you are doing your best to explain in English which is understandable in parts but sounds sometimes difficult to understand in others, but from all of it I can get the gist of your arguments.

You have to remember in Genetics that when mutations were created the world was far different as we know it today and as time went by names were concocted to explain various groups as communication was getting easier and people more settled in towns later growing into cities and today huge metropolises. All I can tell you is that no haplogroup has a patent of any people.

J does not have a patent on Arabs
E does not have a patent on Africans
R does not have a patent on Europe

These haplogroups intermingled since the Paleolithic into the Neolithic when names such as Arabia, Europe, and all the other names that arrived thousands of years later did not exist and neither did religions. What existed is human migrations trying to find survival with the best mean in their disposition intermingling in certain hotspots that gave rise to sedentary living in the advent of agriculture. When one talks of ancient genetics one has to be able to digest time frames well. Otherwise it will make things very distorted and out of context.

Example:- If a J haplogroup entered in what today is called Europe 5000 years ago it cannot be called Arab
If an R haplogroup entered in what today is called the middle east or Africa 5000 it cannot be called European
If an E has entered in what today we Call the Middle east or Europe 5000 years ago it cannot be called African

(some hapolgroups did mutate and remained solely in a region such as the I group in Europe for example)

All haplogroups can now be deciphered into sub groups so they can relate more specifically to a more recent path of migration and some migrations can be related to more recent events to when these regional names were already established. Its important for historical purposes sake to get things in perspective and not be chaotic. You are right that Political and Nationalistic agendas do exist as we know very well, but sooner or later they will be crushed as most historians/geneticists are more interested in pure history as it comes and they will prevail. Locally we have a proverb saying 'iz zejt jitla fwicc l'ilma' meaning that oil will always surface to the top of water no matter how much one will try to push it down :)

Taranis
16-12-14, 12:54
I have moved this thread into wacky lane because that's exactly where it belongs.


as we all know haplogroup J is closely related to haplogroup I (viking dna) so ther must have been a northward migration of haplogroup J from which the haplogroup I came into being

What do you make of Haplogroup I2? Would you say that Basques, Sardinians and Croats, by your logic, are 'Vikings'... or Phoenicians?

http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup_I2a.gif
http://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-I2b.gif


ancient phoenicians have identical runic alphabet and they worshiped BAAL the horned god coincidentally the vikings had same type of ships and horned helmets and worshipped BALdur

The Phoenician alphabet was by no means "identical". The only modern writing system about this can be said is maybe the Hebrew alphabet, but its letters have different shapes. The Phoenician alphabet was a pure consonant alphabet. For example, the letter that we today have as "A" originally represented a glottal stop in Phoenician (as in the word "Hawai'i"). The Greeks changed this, turning ito "A". The Runic alphabet is indeed a descendant of the Phoenician alphabet (as are most of the world's writing systems), but only indirectly, namely via the Greek and Etruscan alphabets. The Phoenicians never were anywhere near Scandinavia.

Also, the Vikings had no horned helmets. That's an urban legend.

WilliamScull
28-05-16, 22:48
when do you think the first modern human cultures existed? have you every looked into ancient mining? namely ochre and flint?

WilliamScull
28-05-16, 23:02
have you ever considered the ancient flint mines and ochre mines? like the ones in germany? such mines and their techniques suggest large advanced cultures with structure and language. and a trade system! just llok at the locations where red ochre and flint have been found? it was everywhere in the pre-historical world! and these large mines suggest it was widely traded. also, not just the organizational and linguistic skills needed for such accomplishments suggest more than a group of ragtag hunter gathereres existed long ago, but they paths they took to reach some of the flint sites suggest some math skills and at least knowledge of geology and where the flint layers were to be found. also, ochre is said to be useful in refining metal. the entire science of metallurgy and the art of mining it from the earth and then making refined metals must have been a very tedious process of discovery. something hunter-gathers would not have done. No.....these mining sites and the civilization and trade/economic system that must have been present, along with an organizational structure and language, must have existed for these things to have occurred. it is likely that the indo-european language traces back to a large culture capable of establishing such a wide trade system for ochre and flint.
research these ancient mines and i'm sure you will agree that written history falls vastly short of explaining reality. hell, history doesnt even know how we started mining and making metals to begin with! and who invented the wheel? that was a big one......i doubt even the most ancient of cultures knew that one. that is probably an 100,000 year old invention if not more.....8000 years of history since sumaria does not even begin to tell the tale of modern humanity.

Hauteville
29-05-16, 02:06
Imo ancient Punic were modern Cypriot-like. They were traders not huge colonizers though.

Bataki
25-08-18, 13:29
I actually came here when internetsearching for phoenecian DNA in scandinavia since teh phoenecian theory is interesting. The I haplogroup is not it thought. About a third of scandinavian men have the I haplogroup. It is the oldest european haplogroup. That it is so prelevant in scandinavia is probably due to that agriculture technology gives less of a competitive advantage in scandinavia since it is so far north. So the first agriculturalists had to come to terms with the original hunter gatherers to a greater extent than in the rest of Europe. And scandinavia holds more areas that are not viable for agriculture where hunter gatherers could survive.

However, there are indications that phoenecian traders actually influenced culture in pregermanic or possibly protogermannic scandinavia. For example, germanic languages differes from other indoeuropean languages in that it has a subset of words that do not have an indoeuropean origin, but that all other indoeuropean languages have in common. Words like Ship, Beach, Sea, Sword, Shield, Eel, Lamb, Bear are not indoeuropean in germanic languages but are indoeuropean in other indoeuropean languages.

Another strange thing with germanic lanugaes is that there are remnants of a numbering system base twelve rather than the indoeuropean base ten. For example, the word Eleven instead of Oneteen and Tweleve instead of Twoteen. The sumerian counting system had twelve as its base and this could have arrived in scandinavia with phoenecian traders.

Another thing that would be explained by the Phoenecian theory is the material quality of the Nordic bronze age. In scandianvia you find the richest and moste sophisticated bronze age material culture outside the mediteranean.

Another thing that would be explained by the Phoenecian theory is that petryglyphs in scandinavia are identical to many petryglyphs in the mediteratnean.

Normally these similarities are explained by scandinavians coming into contact with the mediteranean world when trading for tin in central europe. But i think the Phonecian theory should be explored more.

Here are petryglyphs from the Kingsgrave in Kivik, todays southern sweden. Its one of the prime remnants from the bronze age scandinavia, from 1400 bc. One of the stone could be read as two different people/pantheons of gods coming out of two different wombs. And performing a ritual together and then being joined in one common people/pantheon of gods.

Since this is my first post i cant post links to the germanic substrate hypothesis, petroglyphs or slab one from the kingsgrave. But easy enough to find on wikipedia for example.

But still serching for phoenecian dna.

Bataki
25-08-18, 13:34
Obviously im excluding indian and chinese bronze age cultures in my comparison.

Parafarne
30-08-18, 14:19
Phoenicians lived in 1700 bc and haplogroup I1 is present in Europe since Mesolithic you are so geniuses to even discuss this thing yet you are correct in saying I and J came from hg IJ but this is it nothing more and if you see hg H is very close to I and J too so then Phoenicians and Vikings were brothers of Indians and Bangladeshis too lol so study a little then make connection like this :O

laint
05-09-18, 03:01
Obviously im excluding indian and chinese bronze age cultures in my comparison.

Obviously. If Phoenicians painted those 10 000 year old Mediterranean pethroglyphs, then they might have travelled to China and India before Bronze Age with their space ships.

hrvclv
05-09-18, 18:10
I've seen fascinating threads on this forum before... but this one beats them all !!!!

bicicleur
06-09-18, 19:13
this is utter nonsense, please stop

Angela
06-09-18, 19:56
^^It's such nonsense that I've been debating whether this thread should be closed. I cannot believe it go this many views.

davef
07-09-18, 03:26
Why did it get so many views? I think a lot of people would find this thread a bit comical due to the odd claims being posted here

NPC#69934
25-10-18, 06:05
Ugh, I have to make 10 posts to post links. Sorry guys, you'll have to google my sources yourselves...


I heard sbout this thoery from the Podcast "The History of English". On this podcast he recommended the book "Our Magnificient Bastard Tounge". Apparently this book goes into detail about this concept

spitflamez
31-12-18, 17:51
In the Historie af Danmark by Suhm, published in 1775, the arrival of the Canaanites in Scandinavia is recorded: "Messenius...says that CANAANITES, which were DRIVEN OUT BY JOSHUA, came to Scondia which they called henceforth SCANDINAVIA. This is supposed to have happened 844 YEARS AFTER THE FLOOD...And Arngrim Jonae, the learned Icelander, insists that THE CANAANITES, DRIVEN OUT BY JOSHUA, WERE THE FIRST INHABITANTS OF THE NORTH..." (page 101).

ToBeOrNotToBe
02-01-19, 21:00
Just burn this thread