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jimjwilliamson
16-12-14, 15:38
Rather than continue to lurk, I thought it was time to join up, and start asking questions etc.

I've been doing genealogy tracing for myself, and others for over 30 years, and had my own Y-DNA sampled originally about 10 years ago with FTDNA
That yielded almost nothing, but recent advances have allowed me to add additional screenings, and learn a little more. I am by no means a geneticist, and am wandering the 'Net learning what I can, which led me here at some point.

I've know for a long while I was I1 M253, but that was all.. now, thanks to BigY, and YFull.com I know my line is I1a* and awaiting some further refinements and clarifications.
CTS9857+, Z2891+, DF29/S438+

My paternal genealogy line has been hard to trace, so I was hoping genetics would help, and I have managed to make some solid connections, but not found a common documented ancestor yet with any of those leads.
In family lore, my paternal ancestors came to the US from Ireland, and before that Scotland.
Genetically that makes sense.
Presumption, from dna matches, says that they may have come to Scotland from Scandinavia somewhere.

So, I'm here to read and learn, and to ask questions to make sure I understand


~J

jimjwilliamson
16-12-14, 15:50
I'll add to this, for further clarification.
L22-
Z58-
Z68 no call
So probably not Viking, probably not Germanic
Celtic? But from where?

sparkey
16-12-14, 20:16
"Williamson" is definitely a common surname among those who have become known as the "Scots-Irish," although historian David Hackett Fischer prefers "Borderers," owing to the fact that their origin as a group was on both sides of the English/Scottish border. You should pick up a copy of the book Albion's Seed by Fischer, and flip to the section on the Borderers, if you haven't already.

On the genetic side of things, as you're probably aware, I1 DF29+ L22- Z58- is a diverse group, and the other SNPs you provide seem to be phyloequivalent to DF29, and therefore offer no additional information. If you've taken a STR test at FTDNA, have you tried joining the I1 Project and seeing which STR cluster they place you into? That may help narrow down whether you're in a more Germanic or more Celtic cluster. I1 DF29+ L22- Z58- is the sector of I1 where the rare Celtic-looking I1 lives, although there are plenty of Germanic-looking clusters there. Your indication of Scandinavian matches may point to a more Germanic cluster.

For a good visualization, see Nordtvedt's I1 L22- Z58- tree: http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/Tree%20for%20I1xL22xZ58.pptx

jimjwilliamson
17-12-14, 21:46
I've done the 111 at FTDNA, and belong to the group.
I've traded a few emails with Ken Knordvedt and he's the one who suggested I have PF49 tested individually, it was a no call on BigY, so I am waiting on those results now, should have that sometime int he next few weeks.
Originally, after my BigY results came in, FTDNA had me listed as terminal CTS10140, and showed me as no call for DF29, but YFull says it's DF29+
The I1 group has moved me to 1-DF29 PF49* ML 22,10,12 I don't know what the ML 22,10, 12 means... still in learning mode
I forget where they had me before that, and the I group has me at "Ungrouped DF29 Status Uncertain Please Test DF29" but I think PF49+ will confirm DF29 anyway

Thanks for the lead on the book, I'll take a look at it.

~Jim

sparkey
18-12-14, 17:28
"ML 22,10,12" is your STR cluster. Nordtvedt estimates I1-ML or "Missing Link" as having a common ancestor 1,500 years ago, and branching from the rest of I1 over 4,000 years ago. He called it "Missing Link" originally, I believe, because it seemed to straddle both a Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon distribution, while some other clades seemed to favor one or the other. Either way, it seems to be more Germanic, certainly favoring a distribution on either side of the North Sea. It's not as Celtic looking as its cousin I1-AS4. By the way, the "22,10,12" part probably refers to a sequence of STR values that defines it.

jimjwilliamson
18-12-14, 21:01
"ML 22,10,12" is your STR cluster. Nordtvedt estimates I1-ML or "Missing Link" as having a common ancestor 1,500 years ago, and branching from the rest of I1 over 4,000 years ago. He called it "Missing Link" originally, I believe, because it seemed to straddle both a Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon distribution, while some other clades seemed to favor one or the other. Either way, it seems to be more Germanic, certainly favoring a distribution on either side of the North Sea. It's not as Celtic looking as its cousin I1-AS4. By the way, the "22,10,12" part probably refers to a sequence of STR values that defines it.


Got it. I knew it was the STR code you mentioned, just not what t meant. I gave Ken access to my YFull "YReport" to add to his data pool, I don't really expect a response from him any time soon, probably not until I get my PF49 result.

jimjwilliamson
04-01-15, 16:13
The individual SNP check came back Friday morning
DF29 -> PF49+

So at lest that is confirmed now. I believe that branch is labeled I1b7 - so I'll change my haplogroup in my profile accordingly