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View Full Version : New map of haplogroup R1a-Z93 in Eurasia



Maciamo
12-01-15, 21:02
To complete the series of main R1a subclades here is the map of Z93 in Eurasia. I have tried to avoid colouring uninhabited regions (high mountains and deserts), but it may not be 100% accurate.

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-Z93-Asia.png (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml#R1a-Z93)

Click on the map to get to the Y-DNA maps page, and click again to see a larger version.

Robert6
13-01-15, 01:49
North Ossetians have less than 1% R1a, 0.7% R1a (subclade Z2125) according to Underhill
in the map it is 5-10%

Sile
13-01-15, 01:53
North Ossetians have less than 1% R1a, 0.7% R1a (subclade Z2125) according to Underhill
in the map it is 5-10%

underhill did not get enough samples

Robert6
13-01-15, 02:07
underhill did not get enough samples
Bigger sample from Balanovsky 2 of 357 North Ossetians are R1a,
STR marker analysis show that 1 of them is Z2123, the other Z280
so 0.3% R1a-Z93(Subclade Z2123) if we will take data from Balanovsky.
And more data is from big Ossetian ftdna project
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Ossetian/default.aspx?section=yresults
The only R1a-Z2123 N.Ossetian, his ancestor came recently(some centuries ago) from Kuban region(where Adyghe and Karachay are living),
so 0% R1a-Z93 among N.Ossetians.

Alan
13-01-15, 03:14
underhill did not get enough samples

Agreed, the same case with Kurds 30 samples from Cilicia (South Anatolia).. thats far too low

Robert6
13-01-15, 03:29
Underhill tested 134 N.Ossetians, it is not a small sample, but again bigger the sample, lesser the R1a among N.Ossetians

Maciamo
13-01-15, 10:06
North Ossetians have less than 1% R1a, 0.7% R1a (subclade Z2125) according to Underhill
in the map it is 5-10%

You are right. I inverted the data for North and South Ossetians. I will fix it now.

Maciamo
13-01-15, 10:08
Agreed, the same case with Kurds 30 samples from Cilicia (South Anatolia).. thats far too low

I didn't use Underhill's data for the Kurds. Actually everytime I had R1a data with more samples for Asian population, I chose that one, since practically all Asian R1a is Z93.

Alan
13-01-15, 20:04
I didn't use Underhill's data for the Kurds. Actually everytime I had R1a data with more samples for Asian population, I chose that one, since practically all Asian R1a is Z93.

I mean the sample size of Underhill in general and that they are taken from an exclave outside of Kurdistan. The other maps of R1a* subclades are from Underhil I thought. Z93 is definitely the majorty of R1a among Kurds but going by the small sample size of Underhill and from a small founder effected community, all other subclades are "virtually" and there seems to be no diversity among Kurds. I have been confirmed that this is incorrect by some other user too.
This is what someone gave me as answer about my, too low sample size, complains of the Underhill study.


Thesis of Underhill is generally full of mistakes. He also undersampled Europe. 1 data point in Sweden - Malmo (really?), one datapoint in Germany, one datapoint in Spain. He used wrong phylogeny, because Z282 was downstream of Z280 in his thesis.

But as I always like to find a good sides of any failure - he paid attention of those researchers who may have read the thesis, that other SNPs than M17 or M417 DO EXIST, FOR GODS SAKE. http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.png

L62 and Z282* is found in Kurdistan indeed, we have some Z282* people from that area in our project, as well as basal M420*. That would be great for at least one of them to order BigY or something equivalent.

Guachelin
15-02-15, 03:23
For the sake of being repetitious I am R-Z93, as is about 46 others in the Farrar DNA project (most named Farrar or Farrow, non Farrars are mostly NPE's or descended from persons who were born before surnames (Poll Tax of 1377) family is of Yorkshire origin, first of the name listed in subsidy roll for 1379 in household of Johannes Helistones of Elland, Morley Wapentake, Halifax Parish, West York(shire). Elland is a short walk to the ancestral Farrar home of Mytholmroyd (1471). Family was not iron workers, but wool merchants, textile manufacturers who made a lot of their wealth buying and selling land, building manoral halls and leasing land for coal mining. They married into the Lacy family of Norman ancestry and were patrons of education in the Calderdale (Calder Valley).

Family appears out of nowhere in West Yorkshire in 1379, not as nobility and not as peasants.

There are a few other Z93's in Scotland (one of them is in the Farrar DNA project) but they are also Z94+, whereas Farrars and the Scottish Douglas from Perth are Z94-, so different branches and ancestors.

Z93+ Z94+ Scots might be of Hungarian Romani ancestry. I once thought I was as well.

There are 46 "cousins" in the Farrar DNA surname project at FTDNA, most are Farrars or Farrows, the few that aren't are mostly NPE's, or in some cases (Evans, Douglas, English probably got their surnames from ancestors whose surnames were assigned or adopted at the time of the Poll Tax of 1377 (before which there were no surnames).

If so then that proves that the DNA was in Britain between 1056 and 1377.

The surname exists in other counties, principally Norfolk, which was the iron foundry of Roman Britain, and there the surname is derived from the Latin word for Iron, ferro, from which names like Ferrier, but the only thing in common the Yorkshire Farrar/Farrows have with the Norfolk are the names or an F and two R's, as Norfolk DNA is I1 or R1b.

Alan
15-02-15, 18:24
@Guachelin

R1a in Roma, especially Hungarian Roma is rare. And z93 specifically is non existent among them. It is far more likely to come across Roma with R1a z283 or any other modern European Haplogroup than z93.

So it is far more likely that some Sarmatians went lost in Scottland.

Maciamo
30-10-16, 10:24
I have edit the frequency of Z93 in Europe. It appears to be considerably higher than previously thought around Crimea (obviously through the Tatars), Moldova and western Ukraine.

Vilnius Nastavnik
08-11-16, 20:35
Hello, I'm R-Z93, and I think that my paternal family came to Tunisia at the end of ottoman era in the country. My ancestor probably came from european country. I found a village bearing my name in Slovakia. Does R-Z93 present in Slovakia, in a meaningful way ? Is my theory possible to you ? Thank you !

Twilight
09-11-16, 03:57
Hello, I'm R-Z93, and I think that my paternal family came to Tunisia at the end of ottoman era in the country. My ancestor probably came from european country. I found a village bearing my name in Slovakia. Does R-Z93 present in Slovakia, in a meaningful way ? Is my theory possible to you ? Thank you !
Hello there, Vilnius welcome to Eupedia. What part of Tunisia did your earlier direct ancestor live in? I'm afraid R1a-Z93 doesn't have a strong hold in the country and is confused to the east of the country. However, R1a-Z93 does have a strong hold in Slovakia, and is uniformed by 1-5% around the country.

http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1a-Z93-Eurasia.png

Vilnius Nastavnik
30-01-17, 22:39
Hello Twilight, I'm sorry for not answering earlier. Someone contact me recently asking me some information, he's very interesting in genealogy in Tunisia, and he was interested to know (he too), from what part of Tunisia my family came...my family come from the city of Bizerta (the norther point -city- of Africa). But this guy told me that he found R-Z93 only in one group (named the Keramsa) in the city of Msaken. Like Bizerta it's a coastal city near to Sousse (200 km from Bizerta south).

My great grand father (father of my father's father), is the oldest one of my family we know of. We don't know where he's born, when, etc. We only know that he's the first bearer of our name...and that he must have came in Tunisia in the midst 19th century.